Logic Check - Need advice

[Colbalt_Blue]

Hello Everyone: I have been a long time reader, but not a poster. Anyway, I THINK my logic is right here, but I need to run this situation by you all and get some honest feed back.

Background: I am male, 53, with a bisexual male partner who is 23. We have been together 5 years. Relationship is strong, very honest, easy going, and fun. When we met, I had no interest in him. Too young. He had to convince me that he was truly interested in me. He consistently dates older men and women. We never argue or fight. If a issue comes up, we talk it out and come to a compromise. We have had no issues until now.

Fast forward 5 years: Josh comes to me and says he has been depressed because he has not been sexual with women. This really bothered me, because I feel like I can't help him with this issue. He said he has been fighting his feelings and not giving in to them. My response was that he needed to go be with women.

I told him that I felt that all young men have to fight urges to be with other sexual partners when they are in a relationship. But if his needs are not being met, then he needs to move on and find a woman that he can be with. He does not want to do this, but wants to fight through the feelings.

I don't want to be with someone who feels they are not having their needs met. I don't want a partner who is depressed because they can't be sexual with others. I feel that if a person is feeling sadness or depression because of lost sexual opportunities, then they really should be single and go do what they want to do.

I have worked past the anger and hurt. That only lasted a short time, because I know it's not something he is doing to hurt me, but part of his core. He needs to be sexual with women.

So far the relationship has been very good for both of us. He has done so much learning. He has grown from a child to a man, and I realize that this chapter of his life may need to draw to a close so he can move onto his next chapter, but he would like to just ignore the whole thing and hope it goes away.

Do you feel -- that I am on the right track to push him to go out into the world and leave me behind, and find that woman that he needs to be with? He is more attracted to women than men and has stated that I would be the last man he would ever be with. (not sure how true that is)

Thanks for all your thoughts on this matter. I am just not sure what to do at this point.

[littlerayofsunshine]

He was 17 when you met him, and you were 47. What did you expect? What more do you expect of him? He wants to remain with you and faithful, and you push him away, and if he goes gets him some girl luv, you don't wanna be with him. So........????? Looks like its lose lose, no matter how great the last 5 years have been.

[Realist]

Does he have to leave you to be with a lady? Can you allow the freedom to explore, while remaining with you? My GF can explore if she wants to.........with the only stipulation being, be safe and selective, play smart. She has given me the same freedom, although I have had no desire so far to use it.

[Colbalt_Blue]

Hello there:
Thanks for both of the replies.

On "What do you expect?" I am not sure I can answer that. It really wasn't the question. The question is "What is the best thing for him?" But I guess I expected that he would find someone and move on. Not this gray "I don't know what I want to do thing." Which is the reality of life --

On "can you let him go out and explore?" I gave him that option. He said he doesn't want to do that because he is afraid he will not be able to stop. I told him that I felt he had his answer then. He needs to go out and explore and find the partner who will make him feel whole.

Two things can happen with that. He may go out there in the world and say "Oh my god, there are too many freaks out there I am not doing THAT again. "

Or he could go out there and say "wow, this is really who I am, and this is what I need to be doing" Which would be OK too.

I guess what I am asking, is if you were in this position, what would you do to help the guy find his way?

Thanks

[littlerayofsunshine]

Concerning your reference to my "Irrelevant" question. The answer is the same as the answer was 5 years ago.

[Colbalt_Blue]

No. The same question would not have the same answer 5 years later.
Everyone grows, changes and gets more information and changes their view points. If the answer would be the same, then you have not grown and have become static.

5 years ago, the answer would have been "Go away little boy. Come back when you graduated high school, and I really don't care what your needs are."

5 years later, the answer is different. But still, it's not the question I am asking. Can't you see that?

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

"I guess what I am asking, is if you were in this position, what would you do to help the guy find his way?"

If he has been with you since his teenage years, then he probably doesnt know much of anything else. He needs to be allowed to explore, to grow and find the man he's suppose to be, hon. Let him go to find out who he is. If he discovers that being with a woman isnt what he truly wants, then let him know that the door is always open to him. If you feel its time to cut the cord, then do so with your blessings. This is what "I" would do.
Personally, I would not have started up an affair with one so young, considering its illegal, but thats just me.
Good Luck.
Cat

[littlerayofsunshine]

You want logic. You want people to supply you logic. Logic is as you have supplied to be anylized. He was a boy and should have been left alone, you were a man who for whatever reason kept the relationship, you now 5 years later are insecure about the whole situation for whatever reason. So now to simplify everything for you.. You should have left him alone then and you should leave him alone now. He obviously can't give you what you desire which is a strictly gay relationship. He can't and will never be able to give it to you, some part of his mind will always belong with his identity that you can't wish away. and that in itself will drive you crazy. You can't stand it now. You can't help him, he is a man and will have to learn to help himself. You just want to make the moves for him. Sounds like you want to beat him to the punch and call it "help" Your question asked was
"Do you feel -- that I am on the right track to push him to go out into the world and leave me behind, and find that woman that he needs to be with?

The answer is you were never on the right track. Its not fair to push anyone away and play the martyr. You say he has done much learning? Yeah but he's still 30 years behind you so don't expect him to have your "logic".

[lv69cpl69]

so if you are both bi why can't he be with you and a women???
I thought that was what bi is. I want to "be with" a man but still want my wife! :male:

[Colbalt_Blue]

He was 18 when I met him. He had turned 18 2 months before I met him. It's odd that that magic number 18 means so much to people. If he had been 17 and 51 weeks, he was considered a child, but that one week -- in people's minds -- makes all the difference.

I did not go after him. He came after me. And I turned him down many times before deciding that maybe he needed this experience.

As far as littlerayofsunshine goes, there is medication to help you deal with your issues. You don't know me, or him. No one is playing the martyr. No one is upset or angry. No one is feeling left out. No one is asking for a strictly gay relationship, These are all things you have read into the post. My posting is simply to get ideas. To figure out what is best for him. Nothing is cast in stone. Nothing is out of the scope of what we will look at. Opening the relationship for him is a option. Wondering if pushing him out into the world is a good idea. Perhaps it is. Perhaps not. And if I do not push him to go out into the world, will he wake up at 35 and feel like he has lost a lot of his life because he has stayed with me? he says no, but only time will tell.

The original post was to get input from bisexual people so I could understand the whole bisexual issue and how to best help him with his life. He is young and does not have a lot of life experience. But I know there are a lot of bisexual people out there in the world that would be able to offer their own experiences of how they wish they would have been treated when young.

Will his depression about not being with women fade in time? Or will it get worse? I don't know. He has no interest in ending the relationship he has with me. He Feels his desires will fade away in time, but only another bisexual person will be able to tell me if that is true or not.

Yes, lv69cpl69, being bisexual is being drawn to both sexes. And I think many bisexual people are "serial" bisexual. When they are with a woman, they are with that person. When they are with a man, they are with that person. But when single, will entertain the idea of being with either one. I don't believe it's ever 50/50. There probably is always a sex that one would be more attracted to. But maybe I am wrong in thinking that.

I have known bisexual men, who have been married with children and their wife knew nothing of their other life. They go out with men on the sly, and the wife knows nothing. We don't want to do that. We have a good strong relationship with good communication and are trying to find something that will work to keep him happy, and to fit his needs. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Geezus, whats with the personal attacks? What purpose does it serve to speak as if I need medication. How mature for a 53 year old man to do. I didn't call you a cradle robber, Did i? I did not personally attack you.


No Wonder you had to make your original post....LMAO... Moving on....

[Vikkster230]

Well your entry blog says it all: NEED ADVICE. Just because you may not like what other people have been saying and or suggesting, doesn't mean you need to attack them. You really had to have thought that some might think that this huge age difference wouldn't be an issue. I mean regardless of who pursued whom, that's a big gap. You may not like it, but you're gonna have to "let him go" to see what happens. There is a saying and it fits most of the people who pose similar threads... Be careful of what you wish for... you might just get it. Like it or not you're getting the advice you've requested. Now you need to either take it or leave it...

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

You didnt Say he was 18 when you met him, you implied that he was younger than that. And there was no need to be rude to one of us for voiceing what she took to be truth. It sounded to Me like he was young when you started the relationship too, so it was easy enough to make the mistake. Bad form to make a remark like you did. YOU asked the opinion, so be careful of what people percieve and tell you.
Cat

[Realist]

I agree; don't ask if you're gonna be upset, when you may not like the answers! I've asked for opinions and got some I didn't agree with, too, but still thanked them for their efforts. Each of us see things differently and you should expect that when you ask for others' input.

[elian]

I don't think there is the level of malicious intent that people are implying here...the age difference does create some conflicts but there's no sense in pointing fingers.

If it were me - As much as it might make me feel vulnerable if he doesn't at least try with women he may always wonder "what if?" There is a chance that he will fall into a relationship with a female and be happy. Knowing he was so young when we first met - if I loved him unconditionally I'd have to give him that chance.

This thread reminds me of the many wives who come to this site struggling to come to terms with their husband's interest in men - surely many of those couples have managed to find a compromise?

I'm not so sure an attitude of either/or is the right mentality to have here - if you've been together that long it's unlikely that he'll just fall out of your life completely..you would hopefully remain at least friends no matter what happens?

Based on my own experience - once you've come to the understanding of what it means to live outside of "social norms" it's hard to lose that open-mindedness.

[jem_is_bi]

I have a similar issue with my male partner. He likes women much more than me and occasionally needs to have both a sexual and emotional relationship with a lady. But, after 3 to 5 months, the women want marriage and he hungers for male-to-male satisfaction and is back with me again. I never feel hurt when he romantically involved with a woman. I would only feel bad if I did not satisfy male-male needs.

My male partner is close to the same age as me. With age, the sexual preference and practices of both of us have become stable. However, your male partner is still very young and the instinct to have children and experience all that life has to offer is overwhelmingly strong. He needs to live in harmony with these natural drives, if he is to make it to my age without regrets. So, I would encourage your young lover to seek a young female lover. His depression has made it is obvious to you that he needs the love of a lady. However, like my male partner, I suspect that your young man will always need more than any woman can provide. So, early on, he should let her know about you.

I understand why some criticize a middle age man having a relationship with a teenage man. However, they may never have had to spurn the advances of such a young lover. Before, my present partner, a young man perused me. He liked older men, was handsome, sincere, and a very nice person. Even though my mind told me no, I could not give him a good reason why I resisted his wishes. He was able to punch holes in my logic. I felt like my resistance to his affection was unwarranted and hurtful. I was very tempted to have him as a lover. If he was slightly more persistent or a little older and did not lived with his parents, I am not so sure I would have sustained my resistance. Sometimes, what seems like an easy decision is not easy at all.

[Holmes]

I think that we may have lost focus on what was originaly asked and things have escalated a little too quickly. It maybe cliche, but If you truly love your partner and his happiness is paramount to you let him go with your blessing and honestly. Be grateful for the good times and tell him you will always be his friend. In the end that is all you can do.

[Doggie_Wood]

Hello Everyone: I have been a long time reader, but not a poster. Anyway, I THINK my logic is right here, but I need to run this situation by you all and get some honest feed back.

Background: I am male, 53, with a bisexual male partner who is 23. We have been together 5 years. Relationship is strong, very honest, easy going, and fun. When we met, I had no interest in him. Too young. He had to convince me that he was truly interested in me. He consistently dates older men and women. We never argue or fight. If a issue comes up, we talk it out and come to a compromise. We have had no issues until now.

Fast forward 5 years: Josh comes to me and says he has been depressed because he has not been sexual with women. This really bothered me, because I feel like I can't help him with this issue. He said he has been fighting his feelings and not giving in to them. My response was that he needed to go be with women.

I told him that I felt that all young men have to fight urges to be with other sexual partners when they are in a relationship. But if his needs are not being met, then he needs to move on and find a woman that he can be with. He does not want to do this, but wants to fight through the feelings.

I don't want to be with someone who feels they are not having their needs met. I don't want a partner who is depressed because they can't be sexual with others. I feel that if a person is feeling sadness or depression because of lost sexual opportunities, then they really should be single and go do what they want to do.

I have worked past the anger and hurt. That only lasted a short time, because I know it's not something he is doing to hurt me, but part of his core. He needs to be sexual with women.

So far the relationship has been very good for both of us. He has done so much learning. He has grown from a child to a man, and I realize that this chapter of his life may need to draw to a close so he can move onto his next chapter, but he would like to just ignore the whole thing and hope it goes away.

Do you feel -- that I am on the right track to push him to go out into the world and leave me behind, and find that woman that he needs to be with? He is more attracted to women than men and has stated that I would be the last man he would ever be with. (not sure how true that is)

Thanks for all your thoughts on this matter. I am just not sure what to do at this point.

You had mentioned that communication between you two was good.
Another alternative to consider instead of "pushing him to go out", could be for the two of you to think and talk of, is a third in the relationship. Bring an accepting woman into the mix. The journey finding the right woman or trans-woman could bring a spark to yours and very enjoyable to boot.
:2cents:

Doggie :doggie:

[**Peg**]

I see some of you took your ugly pills before responding... shame on you !!

*embarrassed for you*

Peg

[PolyLoveTriad]

He was 18 when I met him. He had turned 18 2 months before I met him. It's odd that that magic number 18 means so much to people. If he had been 17 and 51 weeks, he was considered a child, but that one week -- in people's minds -- makes all the difference.

There is a reason 18 yr olds cant buy alcohol. They simply arent mature enough to make the right decisions. They are children trying to go from being teens to being an adult. Like we keep saying to our 19 yr old son, you may be 19 and legally that makes you an adult, but it does not make you an adult mentally. In my eyes he was still a child at 18 because 18 yr olds dont have the experience of life that say a 25 yr old or 20 yr old even. You were an experienced, grown, adult man. He was a kid.


I did not go after him. He came after me. And I turned him down many times before deciding that maybe he needed this experience.

Its your responsability to say hey, Im a grown man, this is a kid, NO means NO. You were the adult, he was the kid. You decided to give him this experience? *sigh*


As far as littlerayofsunshine goes, there is medication to help you deal with your issues. You don't know me, or him.

There is no reason for personal attacks. When you give your information in a thread, youre putting yourself out there for attacks in the first place. Hello... you were a grown man, he was a child! You have to at some point come to reality, its not the "one week" to age 18 that makes a difference, its the fact that you were far old enough to be his father 10 yrs before you even met him, when he was 8 yrs old.



No one is playing the martyr. No one is upset or angry. No one is feeling left out. No one is asking for a strictly gay relationship, These are all things you have read into the post. My posting is simply to get ideas. To figure out what is best for him. Nothing is cast in stone. Nothing is out of the scope of what we will look at. Opening the relationship for him is a option. Wondering if pushing him out into the world is a good idea. Perhaps it is. Perhaps not. And if I do not push him to go out into the world, will he wake up at 35 and feel like he has lost a lot of his life because he has stayed with me? he says no, but only time will tell.

Obviously youre asking because you want opinions so dont get pissy when given them. The reason you think he will wake up when he is 35 and you are 75 is because you KNOW, because you state he doesnt have a lot of life experience to know if he will or not. The reason he doesnt is because you took that away from him when you "Made the decision to give him the experience" and in reality took away much more from him than you probably imagine.



The original post was to get input from bisexual people so I could understand the whole bisexual issue and how to best help him with his life. He is young and does not have a lot of life experience. But I know there are a lot of bisexual people out there in the world that would be able to offer their own experiences of how they wish they would have been treated when young.

Help him by letting him go. Let him go into the world, experience life, maybe start a family since he is bi and not gay, let him LIVE. Does he live with you? Do you pay for things for him? Is he maybe staying with you because he simply doesnt have anywhere else to go and you support him financially? I gotta wonder if his father was in his life when he was growing up... Honestly if I were you I would let him go so he can live his own life and grow and learn and experience things he simply cannot experience with you.


Will his depression about not being with women fade in time? Or will it get worse? I don't know. He has no interest in ending the relationship he has with me. He Feels his desires will fade away in time, but only another bisexual person will be able to tell me if that is true or not.

In my experience depression doesnt just "fade in time". Its a warning sign that he needs help because he is seriously not happy with his life. Helloooooo wake up and see whats right in front of you!


Yes, lv69cpl69, being bisexual is being drawn to both sexes. And I think many bisexual people are "serial" bisexual. When they are with a woman, they are with that person. When they are with a man, they are with that person. But when single, will entertain the idea of being with either one. I don't believe it's ever 50/50. There probably is always a sex that one would be more attracted to. But maybe I am wrong in thinking that.

I have known bisexual men, who have been married with children and their wife knew nothing of their other life. They go out with men on the sly, and the wife knows nothing. We don't want to do that. We have a good strong relationship with good communication and are trying to find something that will work to keep him happy, and to fit his needs. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

I might be wrong but I think pretty much everyone knows what a bisexual means. This to me doesnt seem to be an issue of wether he is bi or you are bi. If he isnt being with women and either are you, you have not been in a bisexual relationship for the last 5 yrs, youve been in a gay relationship for the last 5 yrs.

Youre here asking all of us, what to do. Im telling you now though. If you dont let him go into the world and grow and experience life, theres a good chance he is going to resent you later on when he IS old enough and mature enough to see that you should have made the right decision and told him NO in the first place. He may resent you that he never had children, never got married... now if he is GAY, its a bit different. But from what information youre giving us, he is not gay, he is bi, and having the desire to be with women.

Let him go.... you may not have done the right thing 5 years ago, but you have the chance to do the right thing now.

Im sorry if this pisses anyone off, but when I wrote this I thought about what if it was my 19 yr old son and a man 30 yrs older than him together... I want my son to experience life, I dont care if he came out and said he was bi, gay, straight, I want him to experience life, not get into a relationship he is basically dating his father.

[jem_is_bi]

Im sorry if this pisses anyone off, but when I wrote this I thought about what if it was my 19 yr old son and a man 30 yrs older than him together... I want my son to experience life, I dont care if he came out and said he was bi, gay, straight, I want him to experience life, not get into a relationship he is basically dating his father.

There are plenty of people that believe you and I are headed to hell for our sexuality. So, like their righteous attitude, your righteous attitude does piss me off.

I understand the concern you have as a parent for your son. I benefited greatly from oversight of loving parents as a child. But, only after I graduated from high school, when I was 17 yrs old, and free of parental oversight did I really began to learn how to live my life as an adult. The mistakes I made were as valuable as the successes. The relationship between this young and older man does not have to become a bad experience. In fact, this older man asked us how to keep that from happening. Yes, change is needed.

But, dumping your anger on him without any personal injury does definitely piss me off.

[PolyLoveTriad]

There are plenty of people that believe you and I are headed to hell for our sexuality. So, like their righteous attitude, your righteous attitude does piss me off.

I understand the concern you have as a parent for your son. I benefited greatly from oversight of loving parents as a child. But, only after I graduated from high school, when I was 17 yrs old, and free of parental oversight did I really began to learn how to live my life as an adult. The mistakes I made were as valuable as the successes. The relationship between this young and older man does not have to become a bad experience. In fact, this older man asked us how to keep that from happening. Yes, change is needed.

But, dumping your anger on him without any personal injury does definitely piss me off.

Like I said, sorry if it pisses anyone off. Its my opinion, I dont feel it righteous but thats youre opinion. I dont feel Im any better than anyone. I feel its wrong to take an someone so young when youre nearly old enough to be their grandfather and start a relationship like that. To me it screams child predator, but thats also my opinion isnt it. I have gotten a total of 37 mails from ppl today, cheering me on about my opinion on this subject, so I know Im not the only one who feels this way.

Like I said, sorry if it pissed you off, but its my opinion and how I feel about it.

[PolyLoveTriad]

There are plenty of people that believe you and I are headed to hell for our sexuality. So, like their righteous attitude, your righteous attitude does piss me off.

I understand the concern you have as a parent for your son. I benefited greatly from oversight of loving parents as a child. But, only after I graduated from high school, when I was 17 yrs old, and free of parental oversight did I really began to learn how to live my life as an adult. The mistakes I made were as valuable as the successes. The relationship between this young and older man does not have to become a bad experience. In fact, this older man asked us how to keep that from happening. Yes, change is needed.

But, dumping your anger on him without any personal injury does definitely piss me off.

Also you stated that you were out on your own, to make your mistakes and successes. It seems to me that this kid went from being with his parents to being with another parent. He wasnt allowed to make those mistakes or successes like you were because he never got the chance. Now, he asked for the opinion and I gave it. And btw I have no anger towards him Im merely disgusted and repulsed by him.