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**Peg**
May 21, 2009, 1:26 PM
Finally, an article that expresses precisely my reasons for not sharing emotional/sexual intimacies online. It's too late for my marriage, but maybe some vulnerable friends will consider their situation in light of the information below, before jeopardizing their relationships. Lots of info in here I wish I'd known "back then".... *sigh*


"A client I'll call Sharon knew that something was missing in her marriage. She and Robert used to be passionate about each other, she said, but after 12 years and two children, she felt removed. Robert never asked her about work or what she was worried about or felt like doing. She was no longer attracted to him, and they rarely spent time alone together.

If friends confide more to each other than to their spouses, they are having an emotional affair, expert says.

Instead, she threw her energy into raising the children and her job as a paralegal. Life had become bland.

Then there was Todd. He'd been at the law firm longer than Sharon and showed her the ropes. They would discuss complicated cases, and Sharon found his enthusiasm engaging. They'd grab coffee together, and soon coffee became lunch, and lunch led to phone calls and e-mails as their conversations went from professional to deeply personal.

Sharon thought about Todd all the time, and told me she hadn't felt this alive since she and Robert had started dating. While she recognized a crush, her excitement about seeing him, her pleasure in his jokes, her relief in confiding in someone who got her -- she told herself there was nothing wrong with what she was doing because they weren't having sex.

Robert, however, started to notice his wife's coming home later. She was on her cell phone a lot on the weekends, and when he asked who she was talking to, she became evasive. At one point, he complained that they never had sex anymore, that he felt lonely in the marriage, and that he wondered if there was someone else.

Sharon assured Robert -- and herself -- that she wasn't having an affair. While she felt a little guilty, the thought of giving up Todd, the way he made her feel beautiful and funny and fantastic, was unbearable.

Emotional cheating (with an "office husband," a chat room lover, or a newly appealing ex) steers clear of physical intimacy, but it does involve secrecy, deception, and therefore betrayal.

People enmeshed in nonsexual affairs preserve their "deniability," convincing themselves they don't have to change anything.

That's where they're wrong. If you think about it, it's the breach of trust, more than the sex, that's the most painful aspect of an affair and, I can tell you from my work as a psychiatrist, the most difficult to recover from.

Few people go looking for an extramarital entanglement. But like Sharon, they might hit a patch where their relationship isn't fun anymore, and they feel isolated and frustrated. Rather than making a collaborative effort with their partner -- and perhaps a couples therapist -- to improve it, women in particular often accept that "this is just the way the marriage is."

So while they aren't consciously in the market, they are ripe for an affair of the heart: hungry for attention, craving excitement, and eager for someone to fill the emptiness they feel inside.

Sharon came to depend on Todd for emotional highs. The flirting, the accolades, the sympathetic ear all made her feel special. She escaped into this new involvement in a scenario that's increasingly common.

Though emotional affairs have always been around, I'm seeing more of them among my clients than ever before. We've all grown so used to watching, reading, and hearing sexually suggestive material that there's no longer an obvious verbal or physical line we think we're crossing.

And the exponential growth of e-mail, instant messaging, and cell phones gives us a wealth of private ways to connect. It's a snap to Google an old flame: What would have been idle fantasy a decade ago can, with the click of a mouse, grow into emotional (or sexual) infidelity.

We all know men and women who really are "just friends," and there's usually some romantic frisson, even if neither party admits it. But a healthy male-female friendship isn't clandestine.

Once a man and woman avoid telling their partners how much time they're spending on the friendship, make sure they look great anytime they're going to be together, or confide more in each other, including marital dissatisfactions, than in their spouses, they're involved in an emotional affair.

Often I'm told of a friendship that hasn't gone that far...yet. But if the possibilities are tempting, I believe that's the moment to look more closely at the marriage. What is each spouse missing that he or she needs?

My prescription is for them to ask directly and answer frankly, because from everything I've seen, when a couple can't express their feelings, concerns, and dreams, they're both at risk for betrayal. I frequently talk to couples in this vulnerable state, not only about how to reclaim closeness but also how to protect their relationship from third parties. Even when a marriage can't be salvaged, I'd rather see it end amicably before either person starts up with someone new.

Three habits strike me as playing with fire: (1) flirting with others, which can become too intoxicating to give up, (2) "innocently" spending time alone with old lovers, and (3) hanging out with emotional cheaters who make what they're doing seem like no big deal.

Increasingly, I find people are already enmeshed in an affair of the heart by the time they contact me, and they are terribly torn. They have a very hurt spouse but can't bear to lose their "friend." Marital implosion is close at hand.

My approach seems like tough love, but I'm convinced it saves a lot of grief. The first and most important task, from which all the other things these clients must do will follow, is to take responsibility for the affair -- same as if they'd had a sexual liaison. Denying it or blaming their partner's inattentiveness prevents the couple from re-engaging.

The only cases where it might not be best to fess up are the rare ones where the partner has no suspicions: Revealing hidden feelings just to absolve guilt is not a great idea.

Second, the affair must end. Yes, it hurts. And no, it's not possible to disengage partway and still be pals. Things get trickier if the infidelity began in the workplace, but all future interaction must be purely professional and kept to an absolute minimum.

Third, I try to help clients unearth the reasons they got overinvolved. Was their marriage failing? Did they need to build their self-esteem? Were they repeating the pattern of a parent who cheated? To prevent an encore, they must be brutally honest with themselves.

Finally, they have to build back the trust, which is the biggest obstacle to saving the marriage. I'm constantly telling people that it requires a lot of time, openness, and accountability (for example, being clear about whereabouts and coming home right after work).

What I find to be remarkably consistent is that most people don't appreciate the relationship they do have until they're about to lose it. This is what happened with Sharon. When Robert found her e-mails to Todd ("I miss you so much...I can't wait to see you," along with complaints about her home life), he was shattered and wanted a divorce.

As soon as Sharon realized her husband might leave her, Todd didn't seem quite as thrilling. But saying goodbye to him, which she ultimately decided to do, was wrenching, and Robert isn't sure whether he can forgive her. The three of us are still working on understanding why the affair happened and whether they can agree to rebuild their relationship.

It's much more difficult to make your way back from a betrayal of intimate feelings than to try to refresh a marriage that may have become flat and distant.

When you ignore anxiety-inducing thoughts like "I feel stuck -- I wish I could run off and have fun or I feel old and dumpy -- if only someone would make me feel young and sexy again," you cannot examine or deal with them in a productive manner.

Instead, you unwittingly act them out, with potentially devastating results. Any good relationship takes an investment of time, effort, and emotional energy. What few people want to accept is that we can all become Sharon and Robert, and that marriage, while potentially tremendously gratifying, is always a work in progress."

credit [contains links to other articles]:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal/05/21/o.having.emotional.affair/index.html

_Joe_
May 21, 2009, 2:01 PM
Good read.

They say it takes two to cheat... and I have never really found that 100% true. In some cases, if not many, it took three to cheat.

You have two people, one that needs a void filled that isn't being filled by the spouse, and someone can only go so long with that void till they have breached their tolerance levels and go looking elsewhere to fill it. Ya, I said it. I bet alot will argue that's a bunch of bullcrap, because I've heard it elsewhere.

But it's the simple statement that it feels good, to FEEL GOOD. Someone can only tolerate feeling bad for so long till they reach their limit, and it is sad but undeniable situation.

allbimyself
May 21, 2009, 3:33 PM
Getting away from the article, the topic question begs to be answered and that answer is "it depends."

Just as any other form of infidelity, what is or is not cheating is up to the individuals involved to decide.

_Joe_
May 21, 2009, 3:45 PM
And sometimes what the divorce lawyers and judge agrees on ><

jamieknyc
May 21, 2009, 5:08 PM
Slow down a bit Joe: while infidelity, emotional or otherwise, happens frequently, it doesn't often get as far as divorce court.

_Joe_
May 21, 2009, 5:41 PM
Well, I'm jumpy.

Because I know 3 people going through Divorce right now, and it's fresh in my mind as I get to hear how one of those is going every.single.day.

jamieknyc
May 21, 2009, 6:16 PM
Are those three divorces over infideilty, or over one of the more usual causes?

meteast chick
May 21, 2009, 10:56 PM
You know my ex husband blames this site for the falling out of our marriage.

He obviously was completely ignorant to the fact that our marriage was crumbling for years. The difference is, I finally had an outlet, and I emersed myself. I met so many of you through chat, and then...Huney. I was only innocently flirting with her when I finally asked him for a divorce. Was I starting to fall emotionally for her? Absolutely. When I asked my attorney, she said he could never use it against me. Many of you know what happened after that, but just thought I'd share that. Even today, it seems that may have been the best relationship I've ever had. I'm sure it's somewhat built up in my own mind because I'll never have the opportunity to know how it could have ended. Maybe it's a blessing, but all I know is that I'd have been willing to chance it just to know her touch.

Online relationships can be just as real as physical ones, and I know that from personal experience. It's interesting the funny looks I get from people who I tell that to. It's like that can't believe that to be true. Therefore, in my own opinion, online cheating is still...cheating.

R.I.P. baby...

meteast

TwylaTwobits
May 21, 2009, 11:47 PM
I'm of two minds on this. The husband I'm divorcing did cheat on me, and with someone he met online years ago. But it was the cumulative years of waiting for him to grow up that finally pushed me to say enough. I was scared of being alone and found that when I acted I wasn't alone at all.

Within a week of making him understand it's done it's over it's finished, I began seriously talking to LDD. So my soon to be ex blames LDD, when I even showed him the yahoo answers question I had posted a year ago and recieved overwhelming response of "Divorce him"

You can become very close to someone emotionally and never progress to even meeting. When you do that and it interferes with your real life relationship then it becomes a problem. I was very very blessed to find someone online that became offline in a hurry. Others aren't so fortunate and wind up heartbroken and alone.

That's a high price to pay for flirting in my book.

littlerayofsunshine
May 22, 2009, 12:11 AM
Infidelity is mostly is used to describe sexual intimacy. Now us as human beings have developed a social construct as to where we can get what we emotionally need from the outside world (not our marriage) from flirting with the boy/girl behind the star bucks counter, to looking at the ass/boobs of our co workers, to chilling out and blowing off steam with the guy/girls, to confiding something in a friend who you feel is safer with certain topics than the shame or impending argument that would happen if you shared with your sig. other. But that's stretching it through alot of different people and avenues..which most people see it as safer than "one person" Does that make most of us emotional sluts/whores? Some of us don't have the wide open spaces mantality and let few in and in so, some of those "natural human activities" Can be construed as "Emotional affairs" Society and Laws of society don't really delve into the socially awkward ( I am one of them) I could have easily be deemed antisocial, cept for the fact I can openly share myself with few. Being bisexual can easily lead those emotional moments over a very unforseeable cliff (things are always harder to see with emotions, when it comes to guaging them next to social constructs) plus there is one more stone in the soup than with two hetero's anywho. What was I saying? I'm into my wine again..ok back on topic. When it comes to court, court doesn't care if your feelings were hurt. You can easily get divorced over not giving hubby sex, but try getting divorced over hubby can't make me orgasm, or hubby makes me sad, or he neglects all of us. good luck with that.. that gets thrown under the "irreclacilable (sp?) differences catagory.
Facts: cheating, hiding money, affairs.. the really dirty stuff gets the judges attention. I had my sexuality thrown at me in court, had one of my children taken away from me temporarily because "I was 18 and had a lesbian relationship". So moral of the story, court doesn't care about the emotions, you fuck someone your in shit creek, and the word gay/bi/lesbian in smaller towns and areas you can be fucked as soon as the dude testifies.

Meteast, I know I haven't been around, I know I don't know the whole story, just the same my heart broke when I read your response

IMHO, if you have done everything you can within your marriage/relationship, and I mean everything, talking it out, trying to solve the problem, going to counseling if need be, writing it in a letter to your partner and if he/she is willing to become part of the solution as to why you feel you need to speak to this person about this and that, why this person and not your lovie can make you laugh. well then the person who is not willing to create a resolution is the problem and will have many relationship problems in the future. You can live free and clear you gave it all. Giving everything you got doesn't mean death of your soul.

umm since I am drunk and dunno if it all make sense, can I say something to smooth it all over...

COCK AND PUSSIES AND TITTIES AND ASSHOLES RULE!

Jade Pecker
May 22, 2009, 1:38 AM
Good read.

They say it takes two to cheat... and I have never really found that 100% true. In some cases, if not many, it took three to cheat.

You have two people, one that needs a void filled that isn't being filled by the spouse, and someone can only go so long with that void till they have breached their tolerance levels and go looking elsewhere to fill it. Ya, I said it. I bet alot will argue that's a bunch of bullcrap, because I've heard it elsewhere.

But it's the simple statement that it feels good, to FEEL GOOD. Someone can only tolerate feeling bad for so long till they reach their limit, and it is sad but undeniable situation.

I totally agree. You have every right to a decent love/sex life. If you keep dropping hints to your partner that your needs are not being met (or even complaining LOUDLY), and they are doing nothing about it, you have every right to take what you need. Since divorce laws are highly stacked against men, for a man that means sneaking around. If that is what you have to do to get what you need without being taken to the cleaners, then so be it. Don't feel guilty. You have every right to be happy, whatever form that may take. :2cents:

Realist
May 22, 2009, 6:45 AM
Littleray

You make more sense than most people do when they're sober! The wine apparently didn't cloud your ability to write what you thought, in a manner that it was not only understood, but hit home as well! We live and learn, but so much of it comes too late for us to put it into practice in a timely manner.

My life's never actually been dragged through the courts, but I got close one time. Scary and makes you feel so alone. I hope life's better for you, these days.

jamieknyc
May 22, 2009, 9:25 AM
Facts: cheating, hiding money, affairs.. the really dirty stuff gets the judges attention. I had my sexuality thrown at me in court, had one of my children taken away from me temporarily because "I was 18 and had a lesbian relationship". So moral of the story, court doesn't care about the emotions, you fuck someone your in shit creek, and the word gay/bi/lesbian in smaller towns and areas you can be fucked as soon as the dude testifies.

You had the misfortunate to live in new York, the only state that doesn't have no-fault divorce (ironically, because no-fault divorce bills are always shot down in Albany by the feminist movement). In forty-nine out of fifty states, you could have simply walked into court and said "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you" and it would have been rubber-stamped by the court in five minutes.

_Joe_
May 22, 2009, 9:38 AM
Are those three divorces over infideilty, or over one of the more usual causes?

The one I hear about daily is, and it is a pure case of one getting neglected above and beyond what I could ever tolerate. The other two are just two people finally realizing they werent mean for each other. However, the first one is more banging on the brain for me.

littlerayofsunshine
May 22, 2009, 10:12 AM
You had the misfortunate to live in new York, the only state that doesn't have no-fault divorce (ironically, because no-fault divorce bills are always shot down in Albany by the feminist movement). In forty-nine out of fifty states, you could have simply walked into court and said "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you" and it would have been rubber-stamped by the court in five minutes.


The custody matters were delt with in arkansas where I lived, a very styme state and I just happened to end up with a jugde who's wife took him through the ringer in a bitter divorce and he had it out women in general. My son's father and I were never married, but we had been living together. I was 16 when I met him and 17 when I had my boy, 19 got preg again, he beat my ass for the upteenth time and I left him, went and stayed at the salvation army (your donations do matter!) I Tried to take custody away from him, I was scared of what he would do, he had already tried to beat the pregnancy out of me, I had an order of protection at the time, had rape and family violence coordinator testify, probono lawyer, (shelter so no moola for one) Got a Job, GED, and one of the twins died in my belly, probably due to the beating the day I left, had that medical report at trial, got an apartment just days before court, but the abuse I received didn't matter, what ended up in the final written decision, (which no one would give to me till after I was able to give birth to the live twin) Was that I had been sexually promiscius and had lesbian affairs and was an unstable parent. Thank you judge. It took me 3 years to get full custody back. Thank god for that Jugde at the last hearing, he restored my faith in the system.


I have no clue as to New York Laws, other than it costed me close to 10,000 dollars for my husband to adopt the twin that lived.

**Peg**
May 22, 2009, 12:58 PM
You awesome friends are like therapy for me. Even though I play my cards close to my sagging chest you have no idea how much I rely on you [virtually] daily.

I realize a lot of people here are in troubled relationships. I realize that most people out "there" don't understand online emotional intimacy - hell there are some here who haven't got a clue.

Back in the days before webcams I found that my online friendships were the PUREST of all... I couldn't hear their voices, nor see their faces, the way they dressed, the car they drove....the house they lived in, etc. [not that I would have "judged" them by those things] it just made it more intriguing for me: caught my attention.

Online friendships saved my sanity - it opened up contact with other humans and I found kindred spirits who encouraged a shy desperate woman to come out of her shell (kid you not).

Let the cynics and the sarcasmics (? LOL) beat their chests and pontificate all they like, we are all different of course ! .. I reach out my hand in sincerity to anyone who needs help in their struggle. One in particular, and he knows who he is :)

lovingly,

Peg

texasman6172003
May 22, 2009, 5:01 PM
I know most of you know my situation. But for the last 5 years this place has saved my sanity at times. Ibeing one of those that cant come out too his wife due too family pressures,and immediate family pressure.So with what is being discussed here i have too assume that i am a total shithead,and a sorry human being.Although in my heart i know how i really am. I apoligize too know one how i have lived my life,butt i am sure i have dissapointed a few people along the way. Great thread Peg dear,Thank You...

littlerayofsunshine
May 22, 2009, 5:40 PM
Tex, you're no shithead *Wipes the brown of your nose*

Luv ya tex! Muah! (shakes her ass for Tex)

**Peg**
May 22, 2009, 8:07 PM
I know most of you know my situation. But for the last 5 years this place has saved my sanity at times. Ibeing one of those that cant come out too his wife due too family pressures,and immediate family pressure.So with what is being discussed here i have too assume that i am a total shithead,and a sorry human being.Although in my heart i know how i really am. I apoligize too know one how i have lived my life,butt i am sure i have dissapointed a few people along the way. Great thread Peg dear,Thank You...


you have NEVER disappointed me Charles... I posted the article because I am a firm believer in information being power....and....for other reasons.... regret being right at the top of the list. luvya buddy.

grxclaus
May 23, 2009, 1:12 AM
A few years back, I was going through some difficult times at home. My wife was very unsupportive. We had sex maybe once a year and it wasn't great at all. I met a gal online, we became very good friends. She was divorced. She was very supportive - I needed that real bad. Our online relationship developed - we would spend hours chatting and sometimes having cybersex and sharing our fantasies about each other.

One time I was traveling to San Francisco for training and she was arriving there (to visit family) on the day I was leaving. She expected me to stay over so we could meet in person. I couldn't, she got mad, and the relationship ended.

Do I feel that I was cheating on my wife? I don't know. But I still had feelings for this other woman. She gave me something that I needed - support and encouragement. Would I have slept with her if I had the opportunity? I'll never know - I wish I would have found out.