omg how dare people have a opinion

[Long Duck Dong]

read the following editorial..... its from the miss usa 2009 contest.... miss california made a open and clear statement, expressed a personal opinion and did not impose on anybody elses rights in making that statement....
now all hell is breaking loose cos a person had a opinion...... a honest and open opinion........ so i ask everybody..... what do you think.... should she has lied in the interests of looking good and making the gay rights people smile..... or be truthful to what SHE believes and make a open and honest statement...

personally I think she did the right thing... was honest about her opinion... cos being truthful beats the hell outta being a liar....... and she never infringed on anybodies rights by being truthful and honest


editoral

The runner-up to Miss USA has stirred controversy at this year's beauty pageant by saying she did not believe in gay marriage.

Miss California’s comments at Sunday's pageant sparked outrage, with some audience members going head-to-head with supporters after the show.

The controvery erupted when Miss California Carrie Prejean responded to a question by gay pageant judge and celebrity gossip blogger Perez Hilton on whether she believed in gay marriage.

Prejean told the audience her family believed "marriage should be between a man and a woman".

"No offence to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised."

Keith Lewis, who runs the Miss California competition, told FOXNews.com he was "saddened" and "hurt" by Prejean's statement.

"I believe all religions should be able to ordain what unions they see fit. I do not believe our government should be able to discriminate against anyone and religious beliefs have no politics in the Miss California family."

Co-director Shanna Moakler supported Mr Lewis' statement.

But Miss Prejean told Foxnews.com she had "no regrets" and was happy with the answer she gave.

Following the show a shouting match errupted.

"It's ugly," said Scott Ihrig, a gay man, who attended the pageant with his partner.

"I think it's ridiculous that she got first runner-up. That is not the value of 95 percent of the people in this audience. Look around this audience and tell me how many gay men there are."

But the mother of Miss New Mexico Charmaine Koonce supported the comments. "In the Bible it says marriage is between Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve," she said.

It follows controversy earlier this month when Miss Universe 2008 Dayana Mendoza posted a blog from a trip to Guantanamo Bay, saying she was having a great time at a base that houses the notorious military prison.

It was later deleted from the pageant's website.

Miss North Carolina Kristen Dalton was crowned Miss USA on Sunday.

[vittoria]

and its obvious she wasnt comfortable answering the question because she knew she had to go home and deal with her family and it would be televised forever and yada yada...

think about it people... a bit of thought out of the box~~ why couldnt SHE just answer the question with HER opine instead of putting it on HER PARENTS?!?

think about it....

theres a lot of people out here who are just out to please their kinfolk and parents and still have that fear of them in the back of their brains and cant think for themselves because of that abject fear et al.

apparently she wasnt chosen for ms. america, NOT because she doesnt agree with gay marriage, but because she cant THINK FOR HERSELF....

context clues will teach you a lot ;)

[bityme]

Miss Prejean responded appropriately to the question posed to her. She stated [B]her[B] belief based on her upbringing. You can't fault her for being honest.

Vittoria: I don't believe she was putting it off on her parents. I think you read too much into her comment. My :2cents:

If the controversy can be attributed to anyone, it should be Perez Hilton. He should not have asked such an emotionally charged question unless he knew the answer would be favorable. On second thought, maybe he did know what the answer would be and that is why he asked it of her. He's a gossip columnist and not above giving the seed that grows into controversy. Now he has something to blog about.

[M. Wolfe]

Yea I suppose you're right. If that's what she believed then being honest about it was decent of her. I can only hope that someone in future generations in her family turns out gay and wants to marry. Having loved ones go through a plight tends to change one's tune.

[diB4u]

LOL thanks for the upload.

Well everyone can express their opinon- people dont have to agree with it, for after all we do not live in a dictatorship, we in the western world can choose to say what we want.

But lol- Re: omg how dare people have a opinion - just makes me giggle.

:cool:

[darkeyes]

Don think ne 1 needs 2 get uptite bout it.. lotsa peeps don believe in marriage per se.. tween no matta who.. lotsa gays an bi's don think we shud get involved in the marriage thing.. personal opinion wich is 1 a many.. so wile me mite think she is talkin through her arse am less than upset bout it.. if she reely believes it then she is jus 1 more we havta try an turn round n the subject.. ther r much worse things sed by briter an more influential peeps than she for us 2 get het up 'bout...:)

[vittoria]

Miss Prejean responded appropriately to the question posed to her. She stated [B]her[B] belief based on her upbringing. You can't fault her for being honest.

Vittoria: I don't believe she was putting it off on her parents. I think you read too much into her comment. My :2cents:

If the controversy can be attributed to anyone, it should be Perez Hilton. He should not have asked such an emotionally charged question unless he knew the answer would be favorable. On second thought, maybe he did know what the answer would be and that is why he asked it of her. He's a gossip columnist and not above giving the seed that grows into controversy. Now he has something to blog about.

:2cents:

my parents believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. my choices and what I personally believe are different, and not based on what I was raised to believe, or what my parents think. One can only read what someone says. To say " well thats what I was raised to believe so thats what I believe too" is a bit closed minded and like I said earlier, shows that one cannot think for themselves. not faulting her for being honest, just faulting her for that whole " my parents do it so i do it too" thought process of mental laziness.

And IMHO, Perez Hilton is a douche. I cant even take anything he says with a grain of salt... salt is WAY MORE VALUABLE than his words. History shows....

[TaylorMade]

Hey, she agrees with the current president. Good fer her. /sarc

*Taylor*

[rissababynta]

I even told my husband last night when I was reading one of the many blasting articles about it that "if she wanted to win, she probably should have lied, but why should she have to?" and he agreed with me. I mean, if everyone disagreed with her opinion so much so to the point where they didn't want her to be the winner, then fine, but must this really be making headlines right now!!?? Sheesh...enough all ready...

[Lonewolf76]

OMFG!!! First Michael Phelps smokes weed...now Miss California is honest in her opinion.... Get ready folks.... it's the end of civilization as we know it!!!!
Soon the clouds will part and Sam Kinneson will return to earth!

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

A person has a right to their own opinion and if society doesnt like it, OFW. Its her's and her's alone. If she was raised to think the way she does, then thats Her perogitive.
She shouldnt have to lie and compromise her integrity just so she could bullshit her way into winning some title.
You go Girl....:cool:
Cat

[Georgie_Girl]

The other forum I visit has a lot of people blaming Perez Hilton for her not winning. :rolleyes: They don't think he should have been allowed to ask that question.

[treemutt]

That prick shouldn't be allowed to judge anything if he's the type to give someone a zero score because their opinion is diff. from his.To hell w/ all this politically correct bullshit.Tell it like it is and say whats on your mind.If someone doesn't like it SO WHAT!!!!

[hudson9]

Of course she's entitled to her opinion, and as Voltaire said "I despise what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

However, the judges are just as entitled to THEIR opinions. So, if Miss CA's opinion affected their opinion of her -- it's simply sauce for the gander.

Let's remember that this is a freakin Beauty Pagent. It is a commercial venture designed ultimately to make some people some money -- they're not passing any laws here that are going to prevent or enable, oh, let's say -- some people of the same gender getting married (!) -- or affect peoples rights to life, liberty, or pursue happiness...

Frankly, it's part of the game -- how does a contestant handle the unexpected (occasionally controversial) question thrown at them? And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the highest levels of the pagent management knew in advance, or even condoned Hilton asking the question -- how many of us would have even known this pagent was on if this nonsense hadn't been all over the news? -- you can't buy that kind of publicity!!

-- actually, I don't know how "clear" her statement was. If you watch the actual clip, she rambles around in rather confused verbal circles for a while before sort of coming to her conclusion -- in the best of they're beauty-pagent contestants not rocket scientist traditions...

[IanBorthwick]

I feel for the girl, because whether she believed this or not, and the endlessly Revised Bible does back her up in its current form though not the original, it makes her a focal point for militant and pissed off gays. This is not going to go away, not right now and not anytime soon.

Fact is there is a wisdom to stirring the bee hive like that. You get people to oust themselves and their backward POV so we can get America to stare it hard in the face. IE, look at the beautiful woman with the ugly thought process in her head.

Until the prejudice becomes visible and is no longer kept inside, or enough people are made to see that this is hideous, there will be a hidden and quiet agenda, allowed to fester quietly and continue far from the light of day where it can keep people from being free. And it will cause people to continue to act like sheep and passively watch as others suffer for their religion's revisionist control tactics.

I approve of her speaking her mind, but I feel for her.

[allbimyself]

I pity anyone that can't think for themselves. Of course, maybe she can and she's a mean-spirited bitch.

BTW, excusing her bigotry on the way she was raised is pretty hypocritical. Every bit of intolerance to ever raise it's ugly head was learned behavior.

[Long Duck Dong]

when I looked at the editoral, I thought the poor girl.....

she was dammed if she did and dammed if she didn't

we have created a society where freedom of expression places you on one side of the fence .....and a target for people on the other side.....

she faced the judges, the public, the gay rights movement, the contest organizers, her friends and family and there was no way in hell that she could have said the * correct * answer .......cos there was none.... it was a loaded question.....

a persons personal opinion of view is now a dangerous thing.... and a few of my friends openly stated that it was a trap.... a money making trap, using that girl as a pawn, to stir up interest and controversy...and get people talking.....

sadly that is what a lot of society has come to..... the point where a opinion and a remark, can become a focal point for millions to talk about, and being * judges * of anothers right to freedom of expression.......and in a lot of cases, force people to decide between lying and being honest....either way.... being a target for personal agendas

what happened to the good old days when a standard question was what did the person most wish for...and the standard answer was world peace

[allbimyself]

I'm sorry, duck, but you are wrong. She has a right to her opinion and a right to state it, that's true. But so do ALL of us that disagree with her.

I'm really sick of this crap where people think that by disagreeing with someone else you are infringing on their freedom. Complete BS.

So you think everyone should just shut up and let her opinion stand unchallenged?

What if she said "I was raised to believe that a woman's place is in the home, barefoot and pregnant?" Should no one challenge that opinion? What if she'd said "I really hope a white woman wins this pageant because we are prettier than black women?" Would you still think she shouldn't lose votes?

Yes, she has the right to say her opinion. She did and no one arrested her. No one sent her to a concentration camp. All that happened was that she turned the minds of voters (which is fine with me, it is a popularity contest after all) and got people to speak out a differing opinion (which is THEIR RIGHT).

And so what if the question was asked to raise the visibility and the income of the show's producers? Those girls are already whoring themselves out for those same people. They knew what they were getting in to.

[meteast chick]

I thought it was pretty daring telling her opinion to an obviously gay judge, and then conflicted as of course that she, as all Americans, have that freedom and of course hating her that she chose that path. Okay so hate is a strong word and I'm just using it to demonstrate my point. It was nice to hear her honesty.

What I find funny is that she was flustered and screwed up her wording "same and opposite marriage" "in my country, mmm family, I was raised to believe..."something to the tune of Miss Teen South Carolina 2007...remember her saying how American children couldn't find the US on the map because many didn't have maps? Hilarity ensued to her chagrin.

Perez Hilton really shouldn't have been there to begin with, as Keenan shouldn't have, and Kelly Monaco...should I go on? What happened to the days when actually qualified judges were there and asked lame non-partisan questions like "How would you make the world a better place?" Now they're asking pop culture and political questions to gauge which side of the political spectrum they are on? C'mon, it's a beauty contest!!!

I don't blame her, or any of them. They clawed, hairsprayed, tanned and starved their ways to those spots. Okay, so that little evil child in me is stirring...

luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxoxoxox
meteast

[meteast chick]

Hey, she agrees with the current president. Good fer her. /sarc

*Taylor*

President Obama doesn't promote gay marriage, that's for certain, but does at least promote civil union. It's not a homerun but it's a step in the right direction at least.

[meteast chick]

Yea I suppose you're right. If that's what she believed then being honest about it was decent of her. I can only hope that someone in future generations in her family turns out gay and wants to marry. Having loved ones go through a plight tends to change one's tune.

She did say that her sister was in the Air Force and a gay rights activist but of course saying she wasn't gay. So much for saying she was raised to think that it's wrong.

[Jackal]

Who cares what a candidate for Miss USA has to say on anything? Or Perez Hilton for that matter. I assure you that Hilton does more damage to gay people, their rights and image than Miss California could ever do.

[TwylaTwobits]

I have to agree that I think it was a loaded question. But then so are a lot of questions asked of anyone in the public eye these days. Every one uses whatever any "celebrity" says any way they want to use it.

[Long Duck Dong]

I'm sorry, duck, but you are wrong. She has a right to her opinion and a right to state it, that's true. But so do ALL of us that disagree with her.

I'm really sick of this crap where people think that by disagreeing with someone else you are infringing on their freedom. Complete BS.

So you think everyone should just shut up and let her opinion stand unchallenged?

What if she said "I was raised to believe that a woman's place is in the home, barefoot and pregnant?" Should no one challenge that opinion? What if she'd said "I really hope a white woman wins this pageant because we are prettier than black women?" Would you still think she shouldn't lose votes?

Yes, she has the right to say her opinion. She did and no one arrested her. No one sent her to a concentration camp. All that happened was that she turned the minds of voters (which is fine with me, it is a popularity contest after all) and got people to speak out a differing opinion (which is THEIR RIGHT).

And so what if the question was asked to raise the visibility and the income of the show's producers? Those girls are already whoring themselves out for those same people. They knew what they were getting in to.

no I am saying that she had the right to express a opinion..... do we has the right to draw and quarter her for having a difference of opinion....

not everybody is supportive of same sex marriage..... but nor does it make them wrong or discriminating or biased.....however we tend to treat them as such

there is a difference between saying that they do not believe in same sex marriage and saying that they oppose same sex marriage.....
to me one is saying that I would not marry a person of the same sex as my heart and mind do not lay in that area....... and the other is saying, I oppose people having the right and ability to enjoy a same sex union.....

I personally support the idea of a civil union / right to marriage, be it same or opposite sex....as a equal setting for all people regardless of race, creed or gender.....but I respect that not everybody will share that view.....some will be very supportive of LGBT marriage.... some will be supportive of multi racial marriage... some will be supportive of multi racial / lgbt and heterosexual marriage....and some will be against the same things.....

but nor am I gonna wanna draw and quarter everybody with a varying degree of difference....

its why I do not go after the homophobic / bi phobic and spam their websites or blogs etc...... there is no point..... as it is just fueling the fire against the LGBT when we * attack * others....

there is a age old teaching from the art of war that says about how a war can be win before the battle is fought and the daimyo / shogun will then go out onto the battle field and claim the victory....
and thats how I deal with issues..... miss california was used to start a battle.... and by her answer.. she won the war.... by making the remark person and saying that she didn't believe in same sex marriage because of her upbringing.... she never said she opposes it, or that its wrong, or should not be allowed.....

it is the rest of the people that had lost the battle by crying out in rage and anger over something that was not said.... so they had lost before they started fighting

they have her pinned as somebody opposed and against same sex marriage, who was speaking out against it..... when all she did was answer a question truthfully in the most neutral way she could

[veganbigmac]

So let me get this right. A beauty pageant contestant said she didn't believe in gay marriage. That's the issue right?

Maybe it's just me but it's not what opinion you hold that's important, it's how you back it up. You can back up an opinion with empirical evidence, or an emotional appeal based on a life experience, or with a logical syllogism, or any of an infinite number of other ways. The point is that if you're opinion isn't well founded, then THAT is what should be taken offense at, not the opinion itself. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, of course. But the justification for one's opinion should be the basis of the argument. Her justification is that that's how her parents raised her. To me, just accepting carte blanche what you were told by your parents shows that she hasn't thought about this issue at all, because it doesn't affect her or anyone she knows.

Instead of just being pissed that she doesn't agree with gay marriage, perhaps we should ask "Why?". Is it really just because she never questioned what she was told? If that is the case, then that's sad, because any hope of a real discussion on the issue will never happen, because she's already given us the extent of her viewpoint on it.

[TaylorMade]

LDD is right. She started out that "It is GREAT that people have a choice to marry who they want. . ."

But then gave answer on HER OWN PERSONAL CONVICTIONS. An "As for me and my house. . ." stance, stance if you will.

In short, it was. . ."Do what you want since you have the freedom to do so, but as for ME AND MY HOUSE, I disagree."

And if we're going to raise up arms against that. . .We become what we rail against.

*Taylor*

[Long Duck Dong]

thats it in a nutshell taylor..... she spoken simply and openly.... and got jumped on for doing it.....and that has become a sign of the times..... we are quick to point the finger and judge others for having a opinion.... the same thing we have...

vegan, I would accept that if there was a need to back it up.... if her heart is not in a same gender marriage / civil union... then her heart is not in it.... being made to justify why she feels that way, forces her to give a reason and a reason that can be debated about and judged by others....
and thats possibly why she gave the answer she did..... cos she may have had no other answer than she just didn't see the need for a same gender marriage in her life as she was not inclined to be in a same gender marriage... and if she had said that..... she would have been slammed so badly

its a bit like me.... I am not supportive or opposed to same gender / multi racial marriage.... I am supportive of the right for all people to have the same rights to express love, regardless of gender, race or creed.....and my only justification for my feelings is that I can not see why everybody can't
I have no other reason or source for that other than simply... I think we all should have that freedom.....and if anybody was to comment about that and draw me to explain that opinion.... I can't....its just a personal thought and feeling, without basis or grounds

I see the same in miss california.... she was asked to give a answer for what there was no answer, it was just a personal feeling and thought with no basis or reasoning other than its what she felt..... and she could not give that as a answer without it looking like personal biased without any grounds

[darkeyes]

In short, it was. . ."Do what you want since you have the freedom to do so, but as for ME AND MY HOUSE, I disagree."

And if we're going to raise up arms against that. . .We become what we rail against.

*Taylor*

Depends wotya mean by house don it Taylor? Werya putya head down at nite.. extended family.. city..state..nation.. continent.. planet.. species.. depends werya draw the line..

[allbimyself]

no I am saying that she had the right to express a opinion..... do we has the right to draw and quarter her for having a difference of opinion....She was drawn and quartered? I missed that bit.


not everybody is supportive of same sex marriage..... but nor does it make them wrong or discriminating or biased.....however we tend to treat them as suchYes it does. When the "opinion" is that a certain group of people should be denied the same rights as others, THAT IS DISCRIMINATION.


there is a difference between saying that they do not believe in same sex marriage and saying that they oppose same sex marriage.....
to me one is saying that I would not marry a person of the same sex as my heart and mind do not lay in that area....... and the other is saying, I oppose people having the right and ability to enjoy a same sex union.....I'm sorry but that's not what she said. "...in my COUNTRY and in my family I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman..." The first part where she was saying "it's great" that people can "choose one or the other" wasn't her answer. Furthermore, WTF would someone say "not in my family" when asked if she thought more states should legalize same sex marriage if what she really believes is that everyone should have the right to choose? Just say that then. But she didn't. Yes it's her opinion and she's welcome to it. But to deny that she said she was opposed to same sex marriage is a lie.


I personally support the idea of a civil union / right to marriage, be it same or opposite sex....as a equal setting for all people regardless of race, creed or gender.....but I respect that not everybody will share that view.....some will be very supportive of LGBT marriage.... some will be supportive of multi racial marriage... some will be supportive of multi racial / lgbt and heterosexual marriage....and some will be against the same things.....

but nor am I gonna wanna draw and quarter everybody with a varying degree of difference.... WTF? You are really stuck on that phrase. Did someone kill her? When someone voices their opinion, they should expect to hear from those with different opinions. Why do you think it's wrong that anyone else spoke their opinion?


and thats how I deal with issues..... miss california was used to start a battle.... and by her answer.. she won the war.... by making the remark person and saying that she didn't believe in same sex marriage because of her upbringing.... she never said she opposes it, or that its wrong, or should not be allowed.....Yes she did. Sorry. Listen very carefully to what she said. And listen to it in the context of the question asked.


it is the rest of the people that had lost the battle by crying out in rage and anger over something that was not said.... so they had lost before they started fighting

they have her pinned as somebody opposed and against same sex marriage, who was speaking out against it..... when all she did was answer a question truthfully in the most neutral way she couldI still don't get how you think that's the case. If she wasn't opposed she could have said that. She didn't. When someone says "in my country... I believe... marriage should be between a man and a woman" that says fairly clearly that they don't believe same sex marriage should be allowed.

Yes, some people have been crude in their opposition. Shame on them. However, their crudity does not make her right or change what she said (as much as you've tried to do just that).

[darkeyes]

I'm sorry but that's not what she said. "...in my COUNTRY and in my family I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman..."

Big fuss ova a daft, higgerant cow wiv haff a brain... nev mind.. if the above is wot she sed Allbi hun... kinda makes Taylor's "house" a tadge big.. an THAT then begins 2 impinge on the personal freedom a lotsa peeps.. an so shud nev b allowed 2 pass unremarked upon..

[austinbimale]

This girl wasn't "making a statement". She was asked, point-blank, a ludicrous question and had no choice but to answer it. It was a no-win position, and why the idiotic question was allowed is more telling than the answer. Why do I say ludicrous? It's freakin beauty contest! And these shallow airhead "judges" are allowed to espouse their narcissistic crap on national tv. Now, lets see....you ask a pointed question, then scream like a baby over the answer!? If you can't handle the answer.....

What the hell is going on here? It reminds me of the 70's when every person being interviewed, on any occasion, celebrity or not, was asked their opinion of the Vietnam war. Who gives these people a right to put everyone on the spot in hopes of bolstering their personal opinion? And then penalilzing the subject if they say the "wrong" thing!

[allbimyself]

Big fuss ova a daft, higgerant cow wiv haff a brain... nev mind.. if the above is wot she sed Allbi hun... kinda makes Taylor's "house" a tadge big.. an THAT then begins 2 impinge on the personal freedom a lotsa peeps.. an so shud nev b allowed 2 pass unremarked upon..That's a direct quote, Fran.

[allbimyself]

This girl wasn't "making a statement". She was asked, point-blank, a ludicrous question and had no choice but to answer it. It was a no-win position, and why the idiotic question was allowed is more telling than the answer. Why do I say ludicrous? It's freakin beauty contest! And these shallow airhead "judges" are allowed to espouse their narcissistic crap on national tv. Now, lets see....you ask a pointed question, then scream like a baby over the answer!? If you can't handle the answer.....

What the hell is going on here? It reminds me of the 70's when every person being interviewed, on any occasion, celebrity or not, was asked their opinion of the Vietnam war. Who gives these people a right to put everyone on the spot in hopes of bolstering their personal opinion? And then penalilzing the subject if they say the "wrong" thing!Whether or not the question should have been allowed is another issue. These women are placing themselves in that position voluntarily (they go thru dozens if not hundreds of these things before they reach the national stage so she knew what she was getting into), much like a politician. This is, after all, a popularity contest. If it's strictly "beauty" why bother asking ANY questions? Let's just strut them out. Don't let them speak, that might ruin the fantasy. Miss USA isn't supposed to be a living barbie doll. If she was they wouldn't be getting away with having the damn thing at all.

As far as being "penalized" that's what the questions are for. They are asked so that the contestant can be judged (yes, judged, that's what happens in contests) on their answers. If you think they should be judged (graded if you don't like that term) solely on their physical attributes and not include the content of their brain, what does that say about you?

[Long Duck Dong]

that is my point allbi..... must we only say people pleasing comments.....

are people not allowed to have a difference of opinion.....

does everybody have to be supportive or not have the right to speak.....

that is my point....... she made a statement ... a personal statement and she is being regarded as wrong for not saying what people believe she should say
that is why I made the statement that what was she supposed to do.... lie to keep people happy.... or be honest to what she thinks and feels.....

I dislike racists / seperatists / biased people... I make no lie of that.... but I will respect a persons right to disagree..... and in the case of miss california... she spoke her truth... that is something I can respect.... but to condemn her for being honest and saying something that is not all nice and cuddly and pro LGBT ???? then that matchs what i say a lot...... its ok for people to have a opinion, as long as it fits what people wanna hear

she stated ( in the video ) I DO NOT MEAN ANY OFFENCE... but people are offended anyway...that she didn't be nice and cuddly and friendly and all supportive of same sex marriage..... and if that makes her wrong for speaking truthfully.... then I would rather stand beside her in a crowd, knowing what he stands for, than stand with people that would lie, to look good

[TwylaTwobits]

that is my point allbi..... must we only say people pleasing comments.....

are people not allowed to have a difference of opinion.....

does everybody have to be supportive or not have the right to speak.....

that is my point....... she made a statement ... a personal statement and she is being regarded as wrong for not saying what people believe she should say
that is why I made the statement that what was she supposed to do.... lie to keep people happy.... or be honest to what she thinks and feels.....

I dislike racists / seperatists / biased people... I make no lie of that.... but I will respect a persons right to disagree..... and in the case of miss california... she spoke her truth... that is something I can respect.... but to condemn her for being honest and saying something that is not all nice and cuddly and pro LGBT ???? then that matchs what i say a lot...... its ok for people to have a opinion, as long as it fits what people wanna hear

she stated ( in the video ) I DO NOT MEAN ANY OFFENCE... but people are offended anyway...that she didn't be nice and cuddly and friendly and all supportive of same sex marriage..... and if that makes her wrong for speaking truthfully.... then I would rather stand beside her in a crowd, knowing what he stands for, than stand with people that would lie, to look good

Well said, babe. I have had a gutful of people who lie to make themselves accepted into whatever group happens to be popular at this point in time. She was put in front of a firiing squad with that question and asked to play Russian Roullette.

[allbimyself]

Duck, I've never condemned her for being honest. You seem to be condemning everyone else who honestly disagree with her. You can't have it both ways. I don't regard her "as wrong for not saying what people believe she should say." I regard her opinion as wrong. And I take issue with you saying I shouldn't.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol I am not saying that anybody is condemning her for being honest.....

I am saying that she is being judged for not supporting same sex marriage.... what a crime..... somebody that is honest enuf to admit that she doesn't believe in same sex marriage......

wait a moment... she doesn't believe in ???
ok I do not believe in the christian god.... does that may be opposed to god or anti god..... no... it makes me a person that doesn't believe in the christian god
but it doesn't mean that I actively speak out against a belief in god to others and tell them that they are wrong to beleive.... it means that I respect others rights to believe... like my mother... who is a christian and doesn't believe that gays and lesbians should have any rights at all...

so yeah i have a clear line to define my understanding of statements...

miss california doesn't beleive in same sex marriages..... but she is not wrong for saying it or feeling that way..... and we need to stop trying to make haters or gay / bi phobic labels for everybody that doesn't share our views... and realise that some people do not beleive in gay marriage... but it doesn't mean they oppose it either lol

[FalconAngel]

I've kept silent on this until, now, because I needed to figure out why I am glad that she was derided for her opinion.

Now I understand what angers me the most about it and here are the 2 big reasons why.

1. She was trying to be something that is supposed to be representative of the US, not representative of a few hate-mongering intolerant religious nuts. Since she is, as was pointed out earlier, the side excuse of passive/aggressively throwing it on "how she was raised", she demonstrated a view that is not in keeping with our American values of Equality for all.

Intolerance is not an American value, nor is it a family value. That is why she should never represent us in any manner.

2. If she says "at least that is how I was raised" as an excuse for that opinion, then she is demonstrating that she is either incapable or unwilling to develop her own opinion on the subject, which is something that every adult should be capable and willing to do; should even fight to do.

Following like mindless sheep is not what created this country. A representative of this nation, even in the minute capacity of a beauty contest winner, should be all of the things that make this country great; beauty, grace, tolerance and intelligence.

Particularly tolerance and intelligence. Fail on intelligence and epic fail on tolerance.

[allbimyself]

lol I am not saying that anybody is condemning her for being honest.....

that is my point....... she made a statement ... a personal statement and she is being regarded as wrong for not saying what people believe she should saySure sounds like you did.


I am saying that she is being judged for not supporting same sex marriage.... what a crime..... somebody that is honest enuf to admit that she doesn't believe in same sex marriage......It's not a crime to have an opinion. It is inexcusable to say that we shouldn't disagree with her opinion. And YES, being opposed to same sex marriage is inexcusable. Or isn't denying rights to a group wrong?


wait a moment... she doesn't believe in ???
ok I do not believe in the christian god.... does that may be opposed to god or anti god..... no... it makes me a person that doesn't believe in the christian god
but it doesn't mean that I actively speak out against a belief in god to others and tell them that they are wrong to beleive.... it means that I respect others rights to believe... like my mother... who is a christian and doesn't believe that gays and lesbians should have any rights at all...Apples and oranges. Not believing in the christian god does not deny the rights of others to believe in that mythology. If your opinion was that we should stop people from practicing christianity, you'd be as wrong as she is. The comparison to what you said would be her saying "I don't want to marry a woman."


so yeah i have a clear line to define my understanding of statements...Not really. You've jumped all around saying what you think. You said she shouldn't be derided for having an opinion and it was pointed out that others shouldn't be derided for having an opposing opinion you stated that she didn't say what she did say. When that was shown to be wrong you changed to another argument.


miss california doesn't beleive in same sex marriages..... but she is not wrong for saying it or feeling that way..... and we need to stop trying to make haters or gay / bi phobic labels for everybody that doesn't share our views... and realise that some people do not beleive in gay marriage... but it doesn't mean they oppose it either lolLaugh all you want. You are simply playing semantics now. She said she believed that in her "country" (btw, that's my country, too, so I have a bit to say about it) that marriage should be between a man and a woman. That is opposition to the rights of others. I never said she was a "hater" or "gay / bi phobic." I said she is wrong for thinking that her beliefs allow her to deny the same rights to other citizens.

What if she said "I BELIEVE that bi/gay people are mentally ill and should be locked up and treated for their own good so they can become NORMAL. I don't want to offend anybody, that's just what I've been taught by my parents and my church." ???

Doesn't matter that she wants to deny freedom to others. It's just her belief.

[rissababynta]

This girl wasn't "making a statement". She was asked, point-blank, a ludicrous question and had no choice but to answer it. It was a no-win position, and why the idiotic question was allowed is more telling than the answer. Why do I say ludicrous? It's freakin beauty contest! And these shallow airhead "judges" are allowed to espouse their narcissistic crap on national tv. Now, lets see....you ask a pointed question, then scream like a baby over the answer!? If you can't handle the answer.....

What the hell is going on here? It reminds me of the 70's when every person being interviewed, on any occasion, celebrity or not, was asked their opinion of the Vietnam war. Who gives these people a right to put everyone on the spot in hopes of bolstering their personal opinion? And then penalilzing the subject if they say the "wrong" thing!

I remember thinking the same thing, why was this even allowed! It was obviously a question where she would have had an equal amount of haters on either side no matter what her answer was and it was very unfair.

[Lonewolf76]

Ya know - I've read several posts here both supporting the girl and crucifying her. I can see both sides... Hey, I'm Bi - I'm a fence sitter!!! LOL I personally think the girl was a pawn in a chessgame. I agree it is, after all, ONLY a beauty pagent for cryin out loud. I think the BIGGER point is that everyone is talking about it and about the gay marriage issue. I can't say this is the venue I would have chosen to get the topic into the limelight again - but... hey! it IS in the limelight again and that's not really such a bad thing. Sorry it cost her the crown - but discussing the gay marriage issue around the watercooler IS the bigger issue here. Jusy my :2cents: LW

[_Joe_]

In my opinion, the whole competition is without any credibility when you have Perez Hilton be the judge.

[csrakate]

Regardless of how you feel about this girl's answer or the fairness of having the question presented, the sad thing is that Donald Trump has received some much needed attention to his pageant and I am sure is enjoying the notoriety it has received.....leaving this girl as the sacrificial lamb for his glory. It was sad enough when the "sister" pageant received so much attention after the Miss Teen USA candidate flubbed her answer over why people can't find the US on the map....hardly proof positive that these girls are anything more than "beauty" contestants and not Phi Beta Kappa key holders when it comes to quick thought and intelligent answers when presented with a simple question. As for Miss California's response, I am not so sure that this subject should have been part of this pageant to begin with, but for this girl to be chastised for having an opinion is quite sad. After all, it was a simple request for her opinion....and she gave it....however skewed and simple minded it was.

[Annika L]

This has been alluded to before, but it seems to me that when a contestant in a beauty pageant is asked her opinion, there is more going on than simply somebody wanting to know her opinion. As allbi says, clearly the pageant is about more than just physical beauty. Among other things, it considers intellectual ability and grace. A question like the one posed gives a candidate an excellent opportunity to demonstrate both: how does one answer such a question in a diplomatic way that sounds well-considered?

I would suggest that it is neither intellectually impressive nor graceful to say "I mean no offense, but I was raised to believe that others should be denied rights." So she blew it.

If she lost the contest because of that statement (I didn't watch, so I don't know what else may have lost it for her), it wasn't because she opposed gay marriage. It was because she expressed her views in a particularly artless and controversial way.

[veganbigmac]

Wow, Falconangel perfectly summed up my opinion. Thanks for being way more articulate than I on this issue.

[veganbigmac]

Ultimately though, it is just a beauty pageant, and her views should be taken as seriously as the context in which they were asked.

Sorry for the double post, just needed to clarify.

[TaylorMade]

She was drawn and quartered? I missed that bit.
Yes it does. When the "opinion" is that a certain group of people should be denied the same rights as others, THAT IS DISCRIMINATION.


Perez Hilton called her a c**t and a b**ch. If nothing else, that is a rhetorical draw-and-quarter in my opinion.

Calling her a c**t just gives people on the opposite side further ammunition.

I'm looking at her comments again.


"Well, I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land where you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what, in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offence to anybody out there, but that’s how I was raised and that’s how I think it should be - between a man and a woman. Thank you very much."

It looks like she was trying to give lipservice to both sides, and lost.

She gave a nod to the fact that yes, you can marry someone of the same gender in some places to open with... DESPITE what she may think or desire. THAT'S tolerance as I was raised.: I may not like it, but I acknowledge the law.


*Taylor*

[Raindrops+Sunshowers]

So let me get this straight. This inarticulate twat gets kudos for being "brave" by being honest about her idiocy?

Big fucking deal...

Do you know what this is? This is the world's smallest violin, playing a mournful tune for selfish regressives everywhere...

[etncple]

I am amazed at all the rhetoric this has caused. It is obvious the question was asked for the express purpose of riling people up, on either side of the question, and it worked. I personally disagree with her but thats just my opinion, and we all know what opinions are like.... lol.....everyone has one.

I wouldn't worry too much about the girl. In this age of instant celebrity she will probably be on Larry King, Hannity and if Elixabeth Hasselback has any say, the View on tv. She may even get a book deal, and who knows what else, and end up being a lot more famous,not to mention richer, than Miss USA. If she needs a job, I am sure Sarah Palin could find something for her to do......;)

Of course thats just my opinion and I may be wrong :bigrin:

[bityme]

:2cents:

my parents believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. my choices and what I personally believe are different, and not based on what I was raised to believe, or what my parents think. One can only read what someone says. To say " well thats what I was raised to believe so thats what I believe too" is a bit closed minded and like I said earlier, shows that one cannot think for themselves. not faulting her for being honest, just faulting her for that whole " my parents do it so i do it too" thought process of mental laziness.

And IMHO, Perez Hilton is a douche. I cant even take anything he says with a grain of salt... salt is WAY MORE VALUABLE than his words. History shows....

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I would interpret her answer to mean: "That is what I was raised to believe, and after careful consideration of all information available to me, I choose to retain that belief."

I don't think that in the context of her statement she is saying: "That's my opinion because that is what I was told to have as an opinion and I was not allowed to think for myself."

I do agree that her stance is a bit closed minded, or at least seems that way. After all, anyone who chooses a stance which would deny equal rights to others would seem to be closed minded on the issue.

[darkeyes]

Ther far more dangerous peeps for us 2 worry bout than a failed beauty queen.... chill...:)

[Long Duck Dong]

its not what the lady said, that is actually amusing me... its the reaction ....

its like people are saying * omg how dare she say that *...

but we do it all the time....we make statements that can be taken to be a opposition to other peoples rights...lol.....

we can say things like we do not believe that obama should be president for what ever reason.... and that in a way is opposition to obamas right to be president....and we see that as ok... its a personal statement....

miss california is the same.... she makes a statement and suddenly its closed minded / narrow minded ... opposition to *progress* etc etc....

I will admit that I delibrately posted the editorial to stimulate discussion..... and to see what people say...... and yeah i saw the react of * her statement was wrong *.... and I was sitting here thinking.... and how many times do we do the same thing....and then justify it according to our view points....

at the end of the day... miss california made a statement on a stage... its not the end of the world..... mars is still orbiting the sun etc... and life still goes on.....and I tend to beleive that the gay person in the editorial was not offended by the remark.... they choose to take the personal as a personal offense, when the remark was not directed at any person but a answer to a statement in pretty much the same way that people have reacted to the editorial and the things I wrote......

to me, was the remark close minded....??? no... it can only be close minded if a person has been open to a alternative lifestyle and then chosen to ignore it and deny it....

was it wrong ??? only in the eyes of the people that disagree with it.....

was it uncalled for in a contest..... ??? thats a answer I do not have.... it was a current affairs issue that could have been asked, I suppose.... but did it have to be asked ??? I doubt it.....

either way... I still do not support same sex marriage, I support equal marriage for all... regardless of race, creed, culture, gender or sexual orientation.....while some of it is legal and some of it is not.... we all have the right to be joined in love, regardless of race, creed, culture, gender or sexuality...... and unfortunately even legal forms of marriage are still not accepted by many..... sighs......

[allbimyself]

This is my final word on the subject:

First, anyone that called her names over this (I'm looking at you PH) aren't the people I'm defending. Yes, it's sad that people do that, taylor, and they don't help the cause. Fortunately, or unfortunately, there are people like that on all sides of any issue so there are plenty of idiots on the other side damaging their cause.

Second, I defend her right to her opinion and her right to voice her opinion. I also defend those same rights to those that disagree with her. She stated her opinion on a very large stage and the dialogue created as a result is a healthy thing. Getting upset or amused or whatever that there was a response is pretty stupid. Again, some of the rhetoric by SOME of the responders was over the top, but let's not use that as an excuse to say "well, what she said is her opinion, no one should challenge it."

Third, the question and answer segment of the pageant is there for a reason. It exists so they can pay lip service to those that complain that "beauty" pageants are degrading to women. So instead of just admitting that they are purely physical, the contestants are asked to perform some talent and display a degree of intelligence. I think anyone that believes they should be given softball questions, or not have the question and answer segment at all, are basically saying that it isn't important to the contest. That's fine, just think of what that implies. Then agree to stop watching them and boycott the sponsors of these things so that the exploitation will stop.

Fourth, ANYONE that states an opinion that any group shouldn't have the same rights as another group needs to have their opinion challenged. That's how change occurs.

Fifth, Taylor, what she said to open not only doesn't matter, it is WRONG. The vast majority are NOT "free to choose" and she went on to say that she opposed that freedom when she said "in my country...I think that a marriage should be between a man and a woman," which is a statement that she thinks people in the US should NOT have the right to marry a person of the same gender. Maybe that isn't what she meant, but it IS what she said and that needs to be challenged. If she didn't mean that, she has had opportunity to clarify.

[jonric]

The bottom line is that Perez Hilton was somehow tipped off to her values and put in the fix. None of the other contestants were asked a question like this.

I always felt the pageant was fixed. It is no longer a question.

[FalconAngel]

Falcon-She was a person in a beauty contest, not a president or politician like you are comparing her to.

I'm not defending her but people are blowing this way out of proportion when they should be focusing on people who actually hold power who do not like gay marriage or do not want it to happen and think that marriage should just be between a man and a woman and defined as being between a man and a woman, and politicians who think that a civil union is just as good as marriage.

I personally do not care if she does not support gay marriage as I am not going to lose any sleep over it unlike the media, some people who write blogs, and some people who have posted here in this thread.

It was a loaded question but so what? Like myself and others have pointed out even our President and vice president do not actually support gay marriage, are flimsy on GLBT rights (while they once said they were for GLBT rights in the campaign for the presidency), and have said how "marriage" should be defined as only between a man and a woman and how this would not change at all.

Anyone remember that woman in the beauty contest who did not know where Afghanistan is? Or what it is?

True that she is a beauty contestant, but when you are going for something that is supposed to represent what this nation is, even in the minute capacity of beauty contestant. People base their opinions of us based on news and on what our people do and say when they see any of us in person.

No, she is not running for office, but would you want her representing our country? I don't. As an American, it is one thing to be opposed to something, but another to be opposed to it and stating that you would not allow it. Even the winner was opposed to Gay marriage, but the winner also stated that it is not for her to oppose it for others. That is really what this country is about; you may not agree, but you would not deny the right to others.

Like you, I won't lose any sleep over this either, but I have seen the "ugly American" in it's overseas mode and it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Miss California showed the "ugly American" type attitude in her answer, even though many didn't notice it, since it was so very subtle.

[Long Duck Dong]

As an American, it is one thing to be opposed to something, but another to be opposed to it and stating that you would not allow it. Even the winner was opposed to Gay marriage, but the winner also stated that it is not for her to oppose it for others. That is really what this country is about; you may not agree, but you would not deny the right to others.


I love you, marry me lol.......

that in a nutshell if the why I am viewing the whole thing.... a person said they do not beleive in same sex marriage...... its just a statement....but omg how dare they say that.....

and then you have a person in power, with the power to veto basic human rights for everybody, based around their belief ........

all too often we see this.... people in power looking over the country as a whole and basing decisions on the * good of the country *....but ignoring the chance to become a person known for looking out for the basic human right of marriage for everybody.....I know that if I was in power.... that is what I would want my legacy to be.....a man / woman that looked at the rights of people to have their love legally recognized.....something that is of importance on more levels than all most any other decision in love for the majority

[void()]

Something I learned a long time ago might be useful to others here. Religion, politics, sexuality, taste in food / music / fashion ... are for the most part in discussion, opinion. And you can not argue for or against opinion. Everyone has one, and like most rectums, they can stink. Simple facts of life, you ask me.

And it isn't discrimination until the opinion is granted intention, and action. Opinions are sort of a gray area like thoughts. You can not be charged for murder no matter how many times you think about committing it, it is when you actually preform the deed that gets you nailed. Further, I am apt to concur with Voltaire upon the issue. Why? That pretty much sums up the Truth of the American view of it, imohon.

[12voltman59]

Looks like the multiple personality troll is Back!!!!

Drew---call your lawyers and sue the shit out of that dumb ass!!!