New to the whole Bi thing (and a little confused)

[orbit]

Hi all,

This is my first post here so please forgive me if this has all been asked before :)

Anyway, I have always considered myself heterosexual. I have always had girlfriends and have a child to my ex. Since breaking up with my ex, I have had a series of relationships and encounters with women. Some of these have been more successful than others, but all in all it's been a pretty rough couple of years. Recently, I met an overtly homosexual man who showed an interest. He asked me of my sexuality and I told him that I had always considered myself straight but that I wouldn't completely rule out something with a man if the person was right and the trust was there. We have hung out a fair bit and I would consider him a friend. Over the last little while I have formed a bit of a crush on him. I have done some reading and I think it's fair to say that I am at least curious, and probably Bi to some degree (given that one does not have to be equally attracted to each gender). This brings up the subject of terminology. Whilst in essense I believe that labels can be very damaging, they can also be helpful when trying to get an 'general' (and I emphasize this) understanding of what one is feeling, and what indeed to meet other ppl who have possibly similar feelings and confusions. So given that I am for the most part seen as heterosexual by most (and of course this is all based off stereotypes, but that's the society we live in, and doesn't change the fact that that's how most see me), should I consider myself a straight acting bi? I know this term causes a lot of controversy, of which I think a lot of it comes from the word 'acting'. When I use it I use it to mean 'behaving' and not 'pretending'. I am not pretending as I am fairly comfortable with who I am, this is simply who I am. Is there a better term that doesn't cause so much controversy, which still denotes somebody who behaves in a stereotypically straight fashion (give or take)? Also, I am a little confused by the straight identified, gay identified type labels. Are these along the same lines? Is the identification a personal identification (how you see yourself), or more how other ppl see you? Anyway, I might stop rambling now, I'm sure I'll be rambling more in later posts :bigrin: Thoughts?

[M. Wolfe]

A wise old man once said; "You've taken your first steps into a much larger world." Obi wan Kenobi.

I'd first like to say that the issue with labels, well people who have problems with boxes are people who don't fit into them. Many bisexuals will explain that it's "complicated" as to their attractions.

When using the term, or label, bisexual I think we ought to use the strict definition.

"Bisexuality refers to sexual behavior with[1] or physical attraction to people of both genders (male and female), or a bisexual orientation. People who have a bisexual orientation "can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex""
-Wiki.

So ultimately, what do you think you are?

I'll also chuck this in there from wiki.

""it also refers to an individual’s sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them.""

To your question should I consider myself a straight acting bi?
I think (if you are bi) then you should consider yourself a bi acting bi - others may percieve you differently but you should be true to yourself.


Also where you from fellow kiwi?

[orbit]

A wise old man once said; "You've taken your first steps into a much larger world." Obi wan Kenobi.

I'd first like to say that the issue with labels, well people who have problems with boxes are people who don't fit into them. Many bisexuals will explain that it's "complicated" as to their attractions.

When using the term, or label, bisexual I think we ought to use the strict definition.

"Bisexuality refers to sexual behavior with[1] or physical attraction to people of both genders (male and female), or a bisexual orientation. People who have a bisexual orientation "can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex""
-Wiki.

So ultimately, what do you think you are?

I'll also chuck this in there from wiki.

""it also refers to an individual’s sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them.""

To your question should I consider myself a straight acting bi?
I think (if you are bi) then you should consider yourself a bi acting bi - others may percieve you differently but you should be true to yourself.


Also where you from fellow kiwi?

Well I think I can definitely experience emotional and affectional attraction to both sexes. Sex may be a different thing, don't know haven't tried it. I can see myself kissing a man though so I'd consider myself somewhat bi. I like the bi acting bi, it's a good one. Regarding the kiwi thing, I accidentally filled the form out wrong, I thought it was just 'other' :rolleyes:. I'm actually an ozi (but my state is not on the list for some reason) but don't hate me too much for it ;). Thanks for your response.

[M. Wolfe]

Well I think I can definitely experience emotional and affectional attraction to both sexes. Sex may be a different thing, don't know haven't tried it. I can see myself kissing a man though so I'd consider myself somewhat bi. I like the bi acting bi, it's a good one. Regarding the kiwi thing, I accidentally filled the form out wrong, I thought it was just 'other' :rolleyes:. I'm actually an ozi (but my state is not on the list for some reason) but don't hate me too much for it ;). Thanks for your response.

No problem dude. I'm sorta new to this whole confusing world too. Though, like you I haven't done sex with another guy, I know I want to. I have tried kissing and it's good - depending on the person.


I'd consider myself somewhat bi

I figured you must have, you signed up to this site.


So your from Oz, eh. Well I'm obligated to hate your kind but I'll make an exception for you, lol, jk. Anyway, this is me and my story (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7001) so have a look. :)

[bityme]

I have always considered myself heterosexual.

Recently, I met an overtly homosexual man who showed an interest. He asked me of my sexuality and I told him that I had always considered myself straight but that I wouldn't completely rule out something with a man if the person was right and the trust was there. We have hung out a fair bit and I would consider him a friend. Over the last little while I have formed a bit of a crush on him.

I have done some reading and I think it's fair to say that I am at least curious, and probably Bi to some degree (given that one does not have to be equally attracted to each gender). :bigrin: Thoughts?

I think that at this point you have answered your own question. You consider yourself heterosexual, but you have a "bit of a crush" on a guy. You have not taken any steps toward either an actual emotional involvement or physical intimacy.

Given the widest interpretation I would say that makes you curious about same sex relations. This is completely normal. It does not mean that you have to develop a new classification for yourself just because you are curious.

Even the very macho, heterosexual, gay bashing guys who watch porn have this same curiosity. If they weren't curious about seeing a hard cock pounding into some lady, they would watch nothing but lesbian porn. (They just refuse to admit the curiosity to themselves because they mistakenly feel that the curiosity itself makes them gay.)

You have identified yourself as heterosexual with curiosity about male to male interactions, i.e., bi-curious. Every male, at some point in their life has this curiosity to some degree. It is only when you act on it that the playing field changes and you might have to consider a new position.

Every jock on the team has compared his equipment to his teammates, some have touched each others, some have jacked off with another guy. Such experimentation alone does not determine status. It is how we view ourselves after such activity. Was it a passing phase, left behind in childhood. Did the blowjob in the bookstore make you want more, or prompt you to decide never again.

Allow yourself the privilege of experimentation. If you find yourself going back for more, then you can begin to question "How bi am I?" But until you have actually become physically or emotionally involved you are just experiencing normal human curiosity.

[Intimate_Light]

Hi Orbit,

First, welcome. This is a good place to get feedback (most of it quite thoughtful). I'm a bit ahead of you since I've touched and been touched by souls in male biosuits, but have as of yet not found a guy with whom I even have a crush. I'm a very layered, fortunately or unfortunately "deep" person, so that can complicate things - lol.

So just I'll wholeheartedly second what was suggested to you by Bityme:

"Allow yourself the privilege of experimentation. If you find yourself going back for more, then you can begin to question "How bi am I?" But until you have actually become physically or emotionally involved you are just experiencing normal human curiosity."

In other words, is a process, not a race or competition with yourself or anyone else. We all blossom differently. Honor you process.

As far as the issue of what-to-act-as, there again, it's a very personal choice. Where I'm at, I am so-called "straight acting". A couple of close friends know I'm traveling this path, but besides that:

My private leanings or blossoming/self-discovery is nobody else's business.

As far as the next level such as showing affection in public, I have never had problems with doing this with a woman. But I certainly don't see myself doing the same with a guy.

Hypocritical? Maybe. But that's where I'm at and will probably stay. Or not. Doesn't matter: There are as many ways to "be bi" as there are bi people.

So relax and enjoy the journey. And of course... think and act safe.

[noabody]

I know this probably doesn't help but I like to add my story for perspective, or do I just like the way my text reads?

I've gone through about a month of soul searching, what some might call a midlife crisis regarding my bisexuality. I finally talked to my straight wife just a tiny bit about it. It struck me odd but I said that I was envious of her. I don't know if I really got that until I said it. I am envious of women for their better qualities: beauty, caring, sensitivity, etc.

I don't consider myself a lesbian in a man's body. I'm not overly masculine but I'm definitely a man. Even though I think the male body somewhat ugly I actually do like my body. I don't want to change genders or dress like women. I find images of women in embrace very soft, beautiful, and erotic. Men seem to be rough, hard, and forced - not as attractive to me.

During lovemaking I found myself sitting atop my wife's pubic bone, grasping her hands to my nipples, slightly rocking forward and back - exactly as it is when she is atop me. She pulled away after a moment and then I realized that I was emulating her. I wanted to be the woman and I wanted to be with a woman.

Odd to me because I pretty much love cock whether mine or someone else's. I assumed that my desire for men was narcissistic, but now it seems that I may just be trying to understand what it feels like to be a woman. Is that what bisexuality is, the desire to understand the experiences of both sexes?

It's probably not relevant to your case, but maybe food for thought.

[AmericanBeauty]

I know this probably doesn't help but I like to add my story for perspective, or do I just like the way my text reads?

I've gone through about a month of soul searching, what some might call a midlife crisis regarding my bisexuality. I finally talked to my straight wife just a tiny bit about it. It struck me odd but I said that I was envious of her. I don't know if I really got that until I said it. I am envious of women for their better qualities: beauty, caring, sensitivity, etc.

I don't consider myself a lesbian in a man's body. I'm not overly masculine but I'm definitely a man. Even though I think the male body somewhat ugly I actually do like my body. I don't want to change genders or dress like women. I find images of women in embrace very soft, beautiful, and erotic. Men seem to be rough, hard, and forced - not as attractive to me.

During lovemaking I found myself sitting atop my wife's pubic bone, grasping her hands to my nipples, slightly rocking forward and back - exactly as it is when she is atop me. She pulled away after a moment and then I realized that I was emulating her. I wanted to be the woman and I wanted to be with a woman.

Odd to me because I pretty much love cock whether mine or someone else's. I assumed that my desire for men was narcissistic, but now it seems that I may just be trying to understand what it feels like to be a woman. Is that what bisexuality is, the desire to understand the experiences of both sexes?

It's probably not relevant to your case, but maybe food for thought.

Sorry I don't relate to this.

I'm a bisexual male and I have no desire to be a woman and even if I were to get surgery on my genitals/get breast implants, take tons of hormones, dress in women's clothing, put make up on, and take on a woman's name I wouldn't really be a woman I'd just be a man who had lots of cosmetic surgery to look like a woman and it would be obvious to everyone that saw me.

When I'm having sex with a man, woman, woman and man, or men I don't want to be a woman or try to feel what it's like to be a woman during sex, since this is impossible and I would not really be a woman even if I imagined it or did all of the above things I wrote about, and nothing would make me feel what it's like to be a woman during sex because I don't have a real vagina or a woman's sex organs.

[M. Wolfe]

I gotta second AmericanBeauty on this one. I never feel like I'm not a guy and never want to, not even want to imagine life from a woman's perspective.

[bityme]

I assumed that my desire for men was narcissistic, but now it seems that I may just be trying to understand what it feels like to be a woman. Is that what bisexuality is, the desire to understand the experiences of both sexes?

I have to go along with American Beauty and M. Wolfe on this one.

Bisexuality is NOT the desire to understand the experiences of both sexes. It is the desire to give and/or receive from people of both genders pleasure or satisfaction either emotionally or physically.

The "understanding" part is the human process of attempting to turn Knowledge into wisdom. It is easy to obtain base knowledge, the harder part is being able to interpret, apply, and differentiate, i.e., wisdom.

Being bisexual does not necessarily imply the existence of wisdom, nor does the possession of wisdom imply bisexuality. We can understand the experiences of others without having to experience them ourselves. For example, even though I am a man, I can understand a woman's desire to have and raise a child, but I don't have to, nor can I experience it. Given the proper knowledge about pregnancy and child rearing, I can provide advice (application of wisdom) to assist her through the process, yet I can never experience it myself.

[M. Wolfe]

Being bisexual does not necessarily imply the existence of wisdom, nor does the possession of wisdom imply bisexuality.

Sigh... If only.

[orbit]

Noabody, whilst I am yet to really 'experience' anything with a man, and hence can't really comment, I do not think that this would be the case, from what I do know. Having said that I find it very interesting and I believe you posted it to share 'your' experience, and that to me is always of interest, whether it applies directly to me or not. I guess we go back to the fact that we are all different, and everybody experiences life in a different way.

With regards to myself (and to others comments on my post) I would agree that I probably am simply bi-curious at this stage. It seems to be a somewhat blurry distinction though. By this I mean, at what point does one go from being curious to bi? Is it when you do something sexual with somebody of the opposite sex and enjoy it? What of the of emotional and affectional attraction mentioned in the wiki definition? Is bisexuality without the sex still bisexuality? I have a deep connection with my best male friends, despite not having a sexual attraction to them. One could argue that opposite sex sexual relationships are not necessarily any closer than non sexual same sex ones, just that they involve the extra intimacy brought about via sex. So again, is sex the defining aspect, or is emotional and affectional attraction enough? Is a married or otherwise committed person who harbors an attraction to the same sex (but would not want to hurt their partner under any circumstances) forever deemed curious? What if they fantasize over same sex stimuli? Are they still just curious, or are they just non practicing bisexuals? I guess all this just once again points to the inadequacies of labels again.

With regards to male-female porn by men, I don't think the assumption can necessarily be made that men would watch female-female porn if they were not at some level getting off over the male image. I believe that it can also be something that allows the viewer to pretend that they are part of the scene in question. It's hard to imagine ones self as the opposite gender pleasing somebody of the opposite gender. Much easier to picture ones self in there. Just a thought.

Thanks to everybody so far for their comments, I'm glad to see such open discussion :). You've made me feel welcome. Oh, and M. Wolfe, I too am obliged to hate you as a kiwi, but as you've made me feel welcome I will leave the near mandatory sheep joke alone. I look forward to reading your story.

Cheers.

[M. Wolfe]

By this I mean, at what point does one go from being curious to bi?

You are looking for a distinct line in the sand where you will not find one. You go from being curious to being bisexual when you decided. When you decided that you will be open to commitment with either gender, or want to get into purely sexual relationships with either gender, then you are bi. Ask yourself "What did I want to do and who with?" Your feelings will tell you what you are.


Oh, and M. Wolfe, I too am obliged to hate you as a kiwi, but as you've made me feel welcome I will leave the near mandatory sheep joke alone.

Lol, I never really understood the sheep jokes. There are 10 of them to every 1 of us, sure, but what would make a person jump to that comical conclusion? I mean it makes more sense for it to be the aussies copping the sheep gags with your song Waltzing Matilda;
[i]"Down came a jumbuck to drink at that billabong,
Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee,"

.... I rest my case.

lol jk.

[orbit]

You are looking for a distinct line in the sand where you will not find one. You go from being curious to being bisexual when you decided. When you decided that you will be open to commitment with either gender, or want to get into purely sexual relationships with either gender, then you are bi. Ask yourself "What did I want to do and who with?" Your feelings will tell you what you are.


Well said.



Lol, I never really understood the sheep jokes. There are 10 of them to every 1 of us, sure, but what would make a person jump to that comical conclusion? I mean it makes more sense for it to be the aussies copping the sheep gags with your song Waltzing Matilda;
[i]"Down came a jumbuck to drink at that billabong,
Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee,"

.... I rest my case.

lol jk.

I have no idea to be honest lol. I heard somewhere that the kiwis made the same jokes about us, is this true?

[M. Wolfe]

I have no idea to be honest lol. I heard somewhere that the kiwis made the same jokes about us, is this true?

Yea, but it's a lesser used one. The main Oz jokes are about stupidity or prison colonies (no offence).

[Intimate_Light]

I know this probably doesn't help but I like to add my story for perspective, or do I just like the way my text reads?

I've gone through about a month of soul searching, what some might call a midlife crisis regarding my bisexuality. I finally talked to my straight wife just a tiny bit about it. It struck me odd but I said that I was envious of her. I don't know if I really got that until I said it. I am envious of women for their better qualities: beauty, caring, sensitivity, etc.

I don't consider myself a lesbian in a man's body. I'm not overly masculine but I'm definitely a man. Even though I think the male body somewhat ugly I actually do like my body. I don't want to change genders or dress like women. I find images of women in embrace very soft, beautiful, and erotic. Men seem to be rough, hard, and forced - not as attractive to me.

During lovemaking I found myself sitting atop my wife's pubic bone, grasping her hands to my nipples, slightly rocking forward and back - exactly as it is when she is atop me. She pulled away after a moment and then I realized that I was emulating her. I wanted to be the woman and I wanted to be with a woman.

Odd to me because I pretty much love cock whether mine or someone else's. I assumed that my desire for men was narcissistic, but now it seems that I may just be trying to understand what it feels like to be a woman. Is that what bisexuality is, the desire to understand the experiences of both sexes?

It's probably not relevant to your case, but maybe food for thought.

Experiencing One's More or Less "Masculine" or "Feminine" Aspects

While most here disagree with Noabody's perspective, I'll come back to what I view as factual: there are as many ways to be bi as there are bi people.

In my case, having the slim/skinny body I have I also tend to like the gentler, similar to my own physical type. I'm not into jackhammer porn. But I'm certainly not fem or effete either, but due to my excursions into the more so-called spiritual/Tantric stuff, I have had moments whereby I have felt the "Yin" or feminine flow through me.

Not exactly feeling like a woman nor even trying to want to understand it. It just happens, and it's pretty sweet and powerful. In Jungian terms, we could call it experiencing the "anima" or whatever. I also have a definite joy in having a male body, my erection and the "animus" it represents.

And I believe that the bodies or biosuits we have do reflect who we are also. A stockier so-called more "masculine" one reflects a different personality and energetic/sensual predispositions than a slimmer more "feminine." Generalizations, of course.

As does personal history:

---- While I cannot pinpoint the actual facts of what may have happened to me prenatally, at birth and during the first 18 or so months of my life through my father (violence, possible sexual something), a certain deep recess of me has an inherent fear of large "masculine," stocky, etc. men.

I don't see this as a bad thing, or something I necessarily have to work through. It just iz whud id iz.

There is no right or wrong way to be bi. We're all intricate creatures with our own layers of history and pre-dispositions. Whether we tend to major more in the anima/feminine or animus/masculine isn't the issue.

What matters is the loving integrity we bring through these aspects of ourselves. Love, connection, giving and receiving have no gender, only an infinite palette of expression and experience through which to play.