Spiritual experiences you've had

[JohniBi]

I often have dreams about a spiritual entity I call "fire cat" because he always takes the form of a cat with fiery eyes. I also saw him a lot when I was experimenting with hallucinogens back in the early 90s. One "trip" I had with him in it was when I was on Salvia. (For those who don't know, Salvia is a plant, legal in most places, that produces strong dissociative effects when smoked) I was in a city, walking down the streets, and then I saw him, and the city melted away and suddenly I was in a desert, with harmonica music echoing through the air. :cool: I'm still not sure what he is exactly, I just know that he's very important to me.

[Intimate_Light]

How one has what Maslow would call "peak experiences" is in a sense irrelevant. I've had a few on something, others sober, so to speak. What matters is this question:

What is the essence of what that experience, symbol, etc. trying to tell you about yourself?

This fiery cat must have some meaning to you on some deeper, perhaps archetypal level in the tradition of what some Native Americans call "animal spirit guides." Just like nightmares are a way of dealing with some of our deepest fears in ways we are not able to in waking life.

So what I would suggest is that at some time when you have a half hour or hour to yourself unencumbered by outside necessities or obligations, that you find some way to connect with this fiery cat. Whether with words or however feels best, opening to starting this "conversation" along the vibe lines of...

"What part of me are you, what are you trying to show or teach me?" or something to that effect.

See what shows up, be it in feelings or images or whatever has some actual emotional impact or resonance.

I could give you some hints on what your "inner" cat means since I can tend to bit a tad intuitive at times (and also have a cat as room-mate and have this thing about cheetahs :), but it's better that you find out for yourself, from within yourself or Self.

If you get stuck and don't "get" anything, I may then share what I sense it could be.

[12voltman59]

I have had a few interesting "spiritual experiences"---a very early one was back in the days I did some "experimenting" with "mind altering substances" as did many back in the 1970s--fortunately for me--my experiences along this line came out to be positive and actually helped me form my non-traditional views regarding what I call the "true nature of existence" and of what "God" is.

It is interesting that when I did this--I was just coming out of high school and had not yet begun my more cerebral searching for spiritual meaning--later I read the Carlos Castenada/Don Juan Yaqui books and also did some studying via some elective college courses I took on "primitive cultures."

My experiences with those substances were much like the sorts of things that Castenada described in his books and what I found in my college texts regarding the usage of hallucinogens by shamans and spiritual leaders of "primitive peoples."

Considering that when "shaman" go and use such substances-they proceed with great caution and follow a prescribed manner of preparation for such use, by luck I guess, I had an experience that in other times--someone would have had to have taken a great deal of time and preparation to have experienced.

I got lucky in that I experienced "an intelligence" in such a state that "protected and guided" me so to speak. I had been sorta freaking out at some of the scenes playing in my mind's eye or wherever it was---but this "entity" calmed me down and explained to me what I was seeing--that I was seeing things and places that we don't normally comprehend and for the unprepared--can make a person go mad---the "entity" or "intelligence" imparted to me that such is the reason people using such substances without being prepared for the experience often did have what came to be called by those who went through them: "a bad trip, man!!" For many--it did "mess them up bad!" for many years after.

After that--particular "trip"--my experimenting days with such substances was over!!! I knew I had been lucky and wasn't going to tempt fate. I resolved that if I ever would do such a drug again--it was going to be done the proper way--in the ways set down by the shamen even though at the time---I would not have put it in such terms.

Later in my life---I had two other intense "spirtiual experiences" this time in both cases---there was no use of any "mind altering substance"--they came of their own accord.

The first--I had been taking Yoga classes from this one person for many months---after we had gone through our moves -the instructor always had us spend time relaxing and meditating---it was on one such time----I had what is generally called "an out of body experience."

My "conciousness" changed from being in my body--I rose up-above my body on the floor---saw it and the others in the class---then I went up into the sky--out into space and had a period that, so it seemed--I was free flying in space---I won't go into what I experienced then--other than to say--that experience also served to gel my views of "God" and creation and most profoundly made me see that we get told in Bible stories and the like is soo far off the mark--it ain't even funny!!!

I was having a great time crusing around the universe without The USS Enterprise or the Battlestar Gallactica--even if we ever do have such ships--what I was experiencing was far beyond what you could do if you were on board such a ship---but this most fun and pleasurable experience ended all too soon when the instructor lead us back out of our meditative state---instead of the nice smooth transistion out of my body I had earlier when this began--I came back to my body in sort of a "clunking" sensation--that was the only bad part of that trip!!!!

My third and final experience I will relate----this was about ten years or so back now here in Ohio--I had become friends with some people of Native American ancestry with one of them being a "spirit man"---we did a weekend deep in the hills of Southeast Ohio doing a "vision quest" with our prime focus being a true Native American sweat lodge ceremony.

That was a most interesting weekend to be sure!!

I know that some who hold that there is nothing beyond our mortal existence and that there is nothing at all like "God" ----that in each of these experiences--all I was experiencing was the firing of neurons and such---merely electrochemical reactions in the brain--that might be true on the purely physical level--that is the way things are constructed here--but I hold that what I experienced in each of these cases and others were in the non-physical aspects --was very much real.

In each instance---there was a great deal of consistency of the particular "lessons I learned" and also a great deal of consistency in what human beings have experienced since the earliest days of our existence as a sentient species----

I am glad I had those experiences and others of a similar nature over the years--they have made me the person I am--and I do think--helped to open me up to the sorts of creative things I have done in my life and that I also have come to identify myself as being a "bisexual" individual-

For me--what these experiences did was to reconnect me to "my true nature" and to confirm some of the crazy thoughts I had floating about in my brain since I was a wee lad that did not at all jibe with what I was thought by the Catholic Church and later when I tried some of the more fundamental, protestant faiths on for size.

Believe me or not or think I might be slightly whacked in the head or not-this is my story and I am sticking to it!! :bigrin::bigrin:;):male::tong::tong:

[JohniBi]

I have had a few interesting "spiritual experiences"---a very early one was back in the days I did some "experimenting" with "mind altering substances" as did many back in the 1970s--fortunately for me--my experiences along this line came out to be positive and actually helped me form my non-traditional views regarding what I call the "true nature of existence" and of what "God" is.

It is interesting that when I did this--I was just coming out of high school and had not yet begun my more cerebral searching for spiritual meaning--later I read the Carlos Castenada/Don Juan Yaqui books and also did some studying via some elective college courses I took on "primitive cultures."

My experiences with those substances were much like the sorts of things that Castenada described in his books and what I found in my college texts regarding the usage of hallucinogens by shamans and spiritual leaders of "primitive peoples."

Considering that when "shaman" go and use such substances-they proceed with great caution and follow a prescribed manner of preparation for such use, by luck I guess, I had an experience that in other times--someone would have had to have taken a great deal of time and preparation to have experienced.

I got lucky in that I experienced "an intelligence" in such a state that "protected and guided" me so to speak. I had been sorta freaking out at some of the scenes playing in my mind's eye or wherever it was---but this "entity" calmed me down and explained to me what I was seeing--that I was seeing things and places that we don't normally comprehend and for the unprepared--can make a person go mad---the "entity" or "intelligence" imparted to me that such is the reason people using such substances without being prepared for the experience often did have what came to be called by those who went through them: "a bad trip, man!!" For many--it did "mess them up bad!" for many years after.

After that--particular "trip"--my experimenting days with such substances was over!!! I knew I had been lucky and wasn't going to tempt fate. I resolved that if I ever would do such a drug again--it was going to be done the proper way--in the ways set down by the shamen even though at the time---I would not have put it in such terms.

Later in my life---I had two other intense "spirtiual experiences" this time in both cases---there was no use of any "mind altering substance"--they came of their own accord.

The first--I had been taking Yoga classes from this one person for many months---after we had gone through our moves -the instructor always had us spend time relaxing and meditating---it was on one such time----I had what is generally called "an out of body experience."

My "conciousness" changed from being in my body--I rose up-above my body on the floor---saw it and the others in the class---then I went up into the sky--out into space and had a period that, so it seemed--I was free flying in space---I won't go into what I experienced then--other than to say--that experience also served to gel my views of "God" and creation and most profoundly made me see that we get told in Bible stories and the like is soo far off the mark--it ain't even funny!!!

I was having a great time crusing around the universe without The USS Enterprise or the Battlestar Gallactica--even if we ever do have such ships--what I was experiencing was far beyond what you could do if you were on board such a ship---but this most fun and pleasurable experience ended all too soon when the instructor lead us back out of our meditative state---instead of the nice smooth transistion out of my body I had earlier when this began--I came back to my body in sort of a "clunking" sensation--that was the only bad part of that trip!!!!

My third and final experience I will relate----this was about ten years or so back now here in Ohio--I had become friends with some people of Native American ancestry with one of them being a "spirit man"---we did a weekend deep in the hills of Southeast Ohio doing a "vision quest" with our prime focus being a true Native American sweat lodge ceremony.

That was a most interesting weekend to be sure!!

I know that some who hold that there is nothing beyond our mortal existence and that there is nothing at all like "God" ----that in each of these experiences--all I was experiencing was the firing of neurons and such---merely electrochemical reactions in the brain--that might be true on the purely physical level--that is the way things are constructed here--but I hold that what I experienced in each of these cases and others were in the non-physical aspects --was very much real.

In each instance---there was a great deal of consistency of the particular "lessons I learned" and also a great deal of consistency in what human beings have experienced since the earliest days of our existence as a sentient species----

I am glad I had those experiences and others of a similar nature over the years--they have made me the person I am--and I do think--helped to open me up to the sorts of creative things I have done in my life and that I also have come to identify myself as being a "bisexual" individual-

For me--what these experiences did was to reconnect me to "my true nature" and to confirm some of the crazy thoughts I had floating about in my brain since I was a wee lad that did not at all jibe with what I was thought by the Catholic Church and later when I tried some of the more fundamental, protestant faiths on for size.

Believe me or not or think I might be slightly whacked in the head or not-this is my story and I am sticking to it!! :bigrin::bigrin:;):male::tong::tong:

That's a very interesting story. Thanks for sharing! :bigrin: I too started my "experimentation" right after high school, only it was the early 90s, not the 70s. It was during the three year break, between 1990 and 1993, after I had graduated High school, but before I started working on my degree via online correspondence schools. Man, the 90s where a great time to be alive.

[elian]

On and off for most of my life I have had what I would consider to be "interesting" experiences...(as a matter of fact - remind me to get a carbon monoxide detector..)

I once had a case of "road rage" long before that term became fashionable, when I got home every light bulb I turned on blew out - the next day I had to go to the grocery store and buy a six-pack of replacements.

I once was laying in bed contemplating things, and I announced in my mind to no one in particular that I thought that Mother Theresa had ulterior motives for acting the way she did. All of the sudden I had the most terrific electrifying pain running the complete length of my spine. Later, my guide conceded that I was technically right, but that Mother Theresa had done more humanitarian work then 100 of your more typical selfish human.

I also had stayed overnight at a friend's house whereupon we decided to watch some very boring 4 hour ELP video of porn..actually I wasn't really into it at all..but my friends mom paid us a surprise visit - and it was all I could do to scream in my head that we needed to shut that video off. Another friend of mine not only did that, but then proceeded to answer verbally all of the other questions and statements I was asking him telepathically. I thought this was a pretty interesting trick. I mean, what do you say - it's not real? It doesn't happen? There's a second person there to corroborate the evidence..and I don't drink.

Ever since that day I've decided that while I would prefer facts and certainty I'd keep an open mind to the idea that maybe there is something more to the world than only what we can see.

I had another interesting experience in dream - I was playing a game trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle. I was running between a board with the puzzle pieces - down a figurative hallway - and then watching a photograph in another room. I say WATCHING a photograph because these photos were quite interesting. For about 3 seconds there would be movement in the picture - then everything would freeze like somebody took the picture - then another two seconds of movement afterward. I was running back and forth between looking at the clues and trying to solve the puzzle when a five year old girl appeared in the hallway and said, "Ra is trying to keep you busy". By playing "mind games" with the Egyptian God of Consciousness I learned that photographs hold more than just pigment and dye - they hold memories. I never did figure out if Ra found what he was looking for - quite frankly it's none of his damn business - but it was a neat game nonetheless.

For the number of times I have had astral encounters thankfully the number of MALEVOLVENT entities I have encountered has been very small..

I've also seen some very interesting architecture that I could only dream here. I was standing in a high rise apartment - the entire wall was smoked black glass and it overlooked the town circle. At each corner of the circle was something that looked like (but wasn't) a gas lantern sort of floating in mid-air, cobblestone pavers, with a really cool energy fountain in the middle of it.
Other neat stuff - like a mall where the main walkway just sort of ended and opened up unto a wide open terrace - you could look up and see the stars :) - and then when you kept walking - more mall..they don't have anything like there here in Pennsyltucky..

My guide also took me for a walk in a very neat place - the landscape was forest, at sunset - moderate temps - at first glance it looked like a very natural scene. The thing was there was nanotechnology EVERYWHERE - you couldn't see it if you didn't look closely - but it was there - working quietly in the background. As a geek I'm really keen on technology that just works and works well - so this was like a wet dream to me. I mean - you could tell just by the way things were constructed that the people who lived there valued living LIFE. Contrast that with technology here and it's like a 180 degree difference. Technology here is all flash, it's a "look at me, I'm important" hood ornament - it lives to serve itself - the technology there was ubiquitous - but it was in the background - the priorities and values of that society were different..wanted to live there - or to bring part of there to here..

Then there was the time I was stoned on Nyquil - woke up in the middle of the night and REALLY had to go pee - when I opened my eyes I started seeing things like blind Neo in the Matrix trilogy..and so I say in my mind to no one...cough..demiurge..cough cough..in particular.. "OK, you can put the reality back now .. and I could've swore I heard a grumbly male voice echo "Your mother won't let me" in my head.

Mercifully for you guys I have some other stories but only remember fragments of them now..If you can believe it I don't take drugs - other than the occasional NyQuil for sinus infections. Hopefully I haven't scared you all off by now.

OK - one more - I remember standing in the middle of a battlefield with maybe six of us, and a hundred or so err..opposing forces - I..hmm..disintegrated and reintegrated us..the opposition passed right through..that was cool. Oh, and there was that time I took a bunch of people on a trip to the library - all I can't remember is someone pleading saying, "Stop, you don't know what you are doing" and replying "But they deserve to know."

When you constantly look for patterns and meaning where there is none life is definitely more interesting.

[12voltman59]

I decided to post up a few more of my "spiritual experiences"- sorry it is kind of a long post too--but I like to try to include as many pertinent details as I can for these recollections.

Some other "spiritual experiences" I had--these I have always felt relate to "reincarnation" and go back to my youth--but the incidents were so vivid-it was as though they were happening in real time.

The first---when I was a kid--we often would travel in the New England area each summer for almost the entire month of August--my dad had a number of customers in that area for the company he worked for at the time---so he would spend time with nearly all of them.

I was very young--about seven or eight and just before visiting one of the historic towns in Massachusetts--it was Salem I seemed to recall---I had not yet visited the town and a few days before we were going to do so--I had this very vivid "dream" a few details I still recall quite clearly.

In "the dream"--I was on older man---hard to say how old--but my sense was maybe around the 50s---I was a man of means--I lived in one of the grand houses of the town and was a prominent person and it was in the pre-Revolutionary era---some of the things I recall most vividly of this dream--first I had awoken in my bedroom--I had long hair that was down, stringy and graying--I wore one of those long white cotton unformed "night clothes" that people of the era wore and my wife came into the room to say good morning and tell me breakfast was ready.

The next part--I was outside taking a walk--it was a cold wet morning--not cold enough to snow--but gray and damp--there was a long brick paved entry road to the property and coming towards me on the road was a what I now know is a coach that is more like a modern day limo--a coach belonging to a wealthy person--not an open one "the commoners" might use---I think my daughter was in the coach and I was waiting for her arrival---this was most vivid---the clomp, clomp, clomping of the horses heels on the pavement--their bodies steaming from sweat and forthing along with the snorts of thier breath in the cold damp air with big clouds of steam.

Of that "dream"--I could recall no more--but a few days later---we toured some of the old historic houses on this one famous street in the town--and I seemed to recognize it even though it had changed a great deal-it had a sense of familiarity to me for sure--on the tour--the houses we went through were not the original ones from the earliest days of the town---having been built on the site of what had once been a grand estate--and even though there were no photos of the grand house, of course--there was a painting from that era of the estate in one of the houses--and while not an exact match--it sure coulda been the place I saw in my "dream."

I had a few other interesting things that happened during the trip--like touring one of the old houses that still stood from that time and I pointed out where a door to a "hidden passage" was located before the docent noted it--she was shocked.

Another vivid dream like this took place where I was in a very different place and time--this time--I was a young boy--it was the 20th century--the early to mid 50s to be quite specific--I know it now--because things took place in what was a mid-50s Ford Woody station wagon-it was that pale baby blue color that was popular then----now take in mind--I was born in 1959 so this took place not too long before the birth in my current life.

As I said--I was a young boy in the dream--about maybe nine or ten--I lived on a farm or ranch somewhere in a place like the plains of Texas or maybe Oklahoma. I was helping an older man--either my dad, grandpa or uncle do work out in the fields---one thing we did--a section of barbed wire fencing had to be restrung--the dream took place later in the day and as it got close to darkness---a terrible storm with heavy rains hit and we had to take refuge from it---we made our way back to the farmhouse and doing that--- the car left the road and we got swept away in a torrent of flood water and we all died.

It is interesting that later--when still a kid--since we had boats and were around the water--my parents insisted I learn to swim--I took lessons a number of times at the local Y and the only hang up to my learning to do so--I refused to put my head in the water--it took like over a year of lessons till finally-one day I put my head in the water and then started swimming like a fish--up to that point--there was no way I was putting my head underwater!!!!

I did not put the two things together until actually rather recently--I do wonder--was my fear of putting my head under the water because at some level--I still had a memory of having drowned as a young boy in a life just previous to this one??

I don't know and cannot say for sure---but it is one of those things that makes ya go "hmmmmm??!!"---I guess like a lot of things---such things are to remain a mystery. I really do wish that if we truly do live multiple lives--we can one day have some recollections of our past lives so that we don't go and make stupid mistakes along the lines of ones we have done previously!!

[jem_is_bi]

I cannot match the bizarre and other worldly nature of the experiences I just read. I had a very good friend while in college in 1965-69 that was heavy into mind-altering drugs. While he always had a good trip, the accumulation of trips took him to far from reality. So he had to spend significant time in the hospital on the return trip. Fortunately, I could see his journey was not for me.
I almost died once, but, that was not a great spiritual experience for me. However, I know someone who had an out-of-body experience when he almost died and is sure that he had been half way to heven.

But, I am in science and on rare occasions, I have an almost spiritual experience when I contemplate the privilege I have to know and understand some aspects of the working of the human mind, the world and the universe with the wonderful insight that lifetime training as a research scientist allows me. Then there are the great moments when I realize I have created a new way to obtain an even deeper understanding of some aspect of my research.

Not a spiritual experience?
I not so sure that I want a more spiritual experience until my spirit leaves my body.

[totchune]

If anyone is interested, I will post this because it may concern the entire planet...who knows?

Back in '94 (important date), I had the future of the world on my mind, for some reason...I had thought about it for an entire week...
I want to add that I never did or experimented with any kind of drugs, never use prescription drugs, and don't drink, in other words I am boring as hell. But I have always been very spiritual from a young age, believing the ideal life is lived with "a foot in this world and the other in the spirit world", as Native Americans put it...I am not sure where the third foot goes:)
I also need to say that in psychological testings, I have always been found to be extremely balanced and mentally healthy.

Anyway I was working at home at my drafting table in Redondo Beach, Southern California in '94, when all of the sudden I felt a beautiful and powerful presence on my left side (the heart side), if I was Christian I guess I would describe it as an "angel", a very evolved entity...
Then without warning I was at two places at once in consciousness, still at my table, and at the same time in outer space looking at the earth, at the world.
It was beautiful, to see the blue planet in space.

Here is the core of the vision: I saw the planet move from right to left in a semi-circle...as it moved, its color changed from the beautiful sparkling blue-white to darker shades of gray, until it became black. At the same time, there was a feeling, and a meaning to this transformation. Hang on to your hats (or teeth).

The transition into darkness had several layers of meaning: one was that the world was being purged, as humanity's psyche (subconscious) was opening up to let all of its negativity, sickness, darkness, out in the open...as if someone had opened Pandora's box, or a huge closet full of crap (fear, hate, guilt, greed, etc etc). All of the darkness contained within humanity's consciousness was manifesting itself in the world, gradually leading to, and this is the most important aspect of this vision, global destruction and near absolute, global hopelessness and despair. That was what the darkness represented.
I was made to understand that the entire world will sink into this despair, and even those who think they have religious or spiritual faith will be shaken to the very core and loose all hope. There will be no place to hide, as this will be an experience in consciousness, and no one will be "spared". It will hit from all sides: the environment, the world economy, wars, epidemics, etc etc...
Yet even though it will manifest itself physically throughout, this despair, this global destruction, will not originate in the physical, from outside, but in the spiritual, from within, and manifest itself throughout the world at all levels of our being: physical, mental, spiritual and emotional.
There will be nothing anyone will be able to hang on to to feel safe. It will be a spiritual storm.
I assume it has began, when I am not sure...yesterday or 15,000 years ago?

Now for the end of the vision: at the end of the half circle trajectory, just when the entire world sunk into this global, near absolute despair, a beautiful thing happened: in the space of a thousandth of a millisecond, really beyond all concept of time as we know it, the world was transmuted in light, shining like a diamond or a bright star in the sun. This, I was made to feel, will be completely, absolutely unexpected, and no one knows when it will happen, no one in this world, no one in the spirit world. It was as if the entire world was having a kundalini awakening and instantaneous, global and total enlightenment, through and through. Again, no one will be left out.
This light also had several meanings: the most prevalent feeling was oneness...the entire world was as one. The light was spiritual as well, but also manifest at all levels of creation. It felt like what some new agers would call "Christ consciousness", or "Buddha consciousness", etc...As if all the world could actually see, touch, feel and know, from direct experience, the divine presence in all things. In this new world, it seemed there was no longer a veil between this world and the "other side", the spiritual world, in other words there was no death.

I was shocked by this vision. I always wondered why it was given to me, and to this day feel some heavy responsibility. Am I supposed to put it out there? There are already so many "prophecies", and so many self-appointed "gurus" and other waanabe Moses and other kooks, I don't want to add more confusion to all the BS out there. And why a half-circle trajectory? Does this represent an approximate time line? I have spoken to an Anishinabe medicine man acquaintance of mine, and he says I need to go out in the hills 4 days and night without food or water, and perhaps I will be given more understanding...if I don't get eaten by a bear or mountain lion.

Any comments?

[elian]

I was shocked by this vision. I always wondered why it was given to me, and to this day feel some heavy responsibility. Am I supposed to put it out there? There are already so many "prophecies", and so many self-appointed "gurus" and other waanabe Moses and other kooks, I don't want to add more confusion to all the BS out there. And why a half-circle trajectory? Does this represent an approximate time line? I have spoken to an Anishinabe medicine man acquaintance of mine, and he says I need to go out in the hills 4 days and night without food or water, and perhaps I will be given more understanding...if I don't get eaten by a bear or mountain lion.

Any comments?

Not that I'm a huge authority on somebody ELSE's personal vision - but apparently you were worried enough about the state of the world that someone gave you a potential answer. What you have witnessed is similar to what the majority of these "guru's" expect will happen - and what I've sort of suspected of happening also. After a certain point in time I came to believe that the primary purpose of the planet is to train and nurture us..and well - all creation I suppose.

If you feel you MUST have a vision quest that is your business - although I would make sure other people know EXACTLY where you are..starving yourself is probably never a REALLY good thing.

It doesn't make me happy that we are ripping the planet, and ourselves apart We are like the kid pissing in his own sandbox - just because we can. I know "it's hard" but we really ought to learn to be more kind - if we were kinder to our planet, we might be kinder to ourselves - and if we are kinder to ourselves we might be kind to others. Something a child would say I suppose.

Knowing what I have seen that's a big "might". Isn't it wonderful that I can sit here from a position of privilege and say pretty words while so many other people in world are suffering on a global scale just to survive?

(It's funny - when I went back to proof this I got the distinct impression that what SOME people need is the exact opposite of the "everything fine, situation normal".)

In another dream I remember standing in front of what I could only describe as some sort of cartel - the atmosphere was very tense - they were lustful for power and getting ready to start a fight. I was pulling young people out of the timeline and holding them up to this group saying "This is what you risking, this is what you will lose.

I got the impression that for a while, they listened - things were still peaceful. But sure enough it wouldn't last. Just like the proverbial group of horny vikings next to a bus full of Swedish bikini team members their lust and greed for power and control overtook their sensibilities.

I know it sounds dramatic and theatrical but when I say I believe that we are in a psychic war - that I wish we could get past the "If you aren't for us, you must be against us" attitude that is prevalent in our society I am speaking from the heart. People need to stand up, take an interest in learning about their world, stop being led simply because it's more convenient than having to think and start taking responsibility for their own lives and actions.

Even if that dream was "just a dream" - it would still do us good to get over that attitude. I feel justified in reaching for unity. With so many others reaching for divisiveness I'm sure it will balance out in the end.

[Intimate_Light]

I found the following Ghandi quotations that will amply and gracefully sum up any drivel I could spread on this subject of visions, responsibility, side-stepping one's own "spiritual self-importance," choosing or not choosing this action or that, and the like.

I highlighted one that pretty much says it all, for in the end all visions have more to do with the world of our own perceptions, inner conflicts between good and not-good, than being on some "mission to save the world" IMO.

That said, I do agree that despite many appearances to the contrary, we are moving towards more unity then away from it, and sometimes the only way to to so is that its opposite must surface to be released and transformed.
________________________

* A man is but the product of his thoughts. What he thinks, he becomes.
* Nobody can hurt me without my permission.
* There is more to life than simply increasing its speed.
* The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still voice within.
* We must be the change we wish to see.
* An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
* Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.
* Permanent good can never be the outcome of untruth and violence.
* Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
* Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as is cooperation with good.

~ Mahatma Ghandi

[12voltman59]

A Post Script to my two rambles above--I just got done reading Intimate Light's profile and he said something in there that I want to repeat and say that I feel this way about myself--IL said that he is not "enlightened"-and I feel the same way about myself--I don't consider myself to be enlightened---but perhaps a person with a bit more understanding of "things."

As far as what I wrote above---I don't know what these experiences really were--they may have been exactly what they seemed-contact with "something beyond" --or they were just simply dreams--just the result of those firing nerve endings in the brain along with the chemical components of brain activity.

Someone asked about "spirtiual experiences" and being the good reporter--I merely relayed some experiences I have had.

I have incorporated those experiences in my life and I want to think they were more than merely the result of just biology--were they contact with a god or creation itself or whatever?--I don't know----I do want to think they were "real"---so like anyone who accepts something of a religous or spiritual nature--I really am making "a leap of faith" that this is so.

The one thing with me---I hold that the "lessons" I learned from those experiences are true for me---but it doesn't have to be for anyone else-I am not going to say that "God spoke to me and I know all about "him" and if you don't believe me--you are doomed to eternal damnation---now---shut down your minds, shut the frack up and listen to and do WHAT I TELL YOU-and while you are at it---hand over your wallet and checking account to me!!"

I say--I don't need some old men in long flowing robes sitting on their gold chairs in the Vatican-and I don't need some "preacher" with his southern accent to tell me what God is- those people don't hold "the keys to the kingdom." I feel those keys are within me and each of us---we just have to look closely.

We all have that in ourselves--and we are best to find our own way---in my opinion, but that is just me!

Good Day!!!!

[darkeyes]

Hav had lotsa experiences wich hav brot enlightenment in me life..but spiritual?? Personally me wudn kno a spiritual experience if it gorrup an slapped me in the face... an doubt wetha many otha peeps wud eitha... religious or not... so pleeze...don attach a meanin 2 summat wich patently is v rarely if at all, attributable...

[JohniBi]

Hav had lotsa experiences wich hav brot enlightenment in me life..but spiritual?? Personally me wudn kno a spiritual experience if it gorrup an slapped me in the face... an doubt wetha many otha peeps wud eitha... religious or not... so pleeze...don attach a meanin 2 summat wich patently is v rarely if at all, attributable...

I'm very sorry, But I find it difficult to understand you. Maybe it's just the Scottish or whatever dialect you're typing in. The heavy use of net slang doesn't help either. Not to be rude, but I really can't understand what it is I'm reading. Sorry. :(

[elian]

Yes, I suppose I can be a bit TOO passionate about projecting my perceptions onto the world - perhaps seeing what I WANT to see instead of what is really there. By no means did I wish to imply that anyone else's experience was less worthy. On the contrary, if more people would listen (self included) to the stories that people are telling then maybe something like the Columbine High School incident in US could have been avoided.

That's a big maybe, but as you can see my passion makes me a naive, opinionated fool when it comes to this. I spent the middle 10 years of my life living in fear and spite - always having something to prove - I don't want to go back there - I HAVE to believe in the power of people to do good things, to overcome great adversity - otherwise I'd be just as likely to give up, be selfish, be cynical, be angry and spiteful. Writing about this I THOUGHT I was relatively mature - but I can see now just how immature I am since I have yet to find middle ground.

When I read your responses Volty I sort of got the impression that by reliving those memories in dreams you show them a measure of honor - As the eternal 4 year old I wonder if that is true - I am at a loss to explain why it would make a difference. Maybe I am just trying to make sense of something where there is no sense to be made?

Apologies if I have offended anyone.

[elian]

As much as my previous posts might make me sound like an authoritarian jackass, it would be a mistake to say that I do not believe in a higher power (broader consciousness) - it's just that I also believe that we were also given free will to be able to think and ask questions..experiences in my past have caused me to have reservations about placing all of my trust in ANY absolute authority. Thankfully the universe seems to be a relatively patient place. My relationship with the divine became a lot more helpful and inspirational to me when I stopped considering it to be a subservient thou-shalt "child/parent" relationship and started thinking of it as a "loving partner" relationship.

I'm no angel, but my sense of morality comes from knowing that every action I take has an impact on those around me. I try to make the majority of the actions in sympathy with what I think loving consciousness would want..obviously however, I am still very much human and prone to bits of hormones.

[jamieknyc]

In a way it is a trick question: if someone asks you, do you consider yourself a spiritual person, if you answer 'yes' it means you aren't.

[Intimate_Light]

In a way it is a trick question: if someone asks you, do you consider yourself a spiritual person, if you answer 'yes' it means you aren't.

I haven't heard that one in particular (and in my case, I don't say I am spiritual, only that I have spiritual leanings or some such). The one I am familiar with is in regards to discernment when seeking a teacher:

If the person states he or she is enlightened, then he or she is not.

[jamieknyc]

I haven't heard that one in particular (and in my case, I don't say I am spiritual, only that I have spiritual leanings or some such). The one I am familiar with is in regards to discernment when seeking a teacher:

If the person states he or she is enlightened, then he or she is not.

Essentially the same idea. The point is that a truly spiritual person does not believe that they personally are anyone outstanding, and that people who claim to be 'spiritual' are either pumped up on getting blissed out or are putting on attitude. Thus the Bible describes Moses as "the humblest of men."

[12voltman59]

Jaime--while it is not a formal defintion of the term "spiritual"--when many people say they are "spiritual" ---they are using this term to dfferentiate themselves from being "religious"--with the term "religious," of course meaning that one is a member of some organized, formal religious faith, individual church or group with a set of dogmas and beliefs that demand some degree of acquiescence by adherents to believe, follow and live by those dictates.

People who use this term are merely saying that they are not followers of formal, structured religions, but that they still do believe "in God" or something else of that nature, most will say they don't know exactly what they believe in terms of matters "spiritual" but they can no longer buy and accept without question, the things they have been told and taught them by formal religions of all stripes--to say that those people are trying to claim they are somehow better than those who are religious, are more enlightened and such is simply not the case for 99.9999 percent of those who identify as being "spiritual."

[elian]

I wouldn't normally share something so personal - but I mean - we share everything else - "Do you like dick or pussy?, Shaved or not?, Spit or Swallow? Have you ever shoved X up your Anus?" ..

The truth is I am only human - but I won't deny that the "ephemeral" experiences I've had shape my thinking and perception of the world...there are so many things I DON'T know - and I guess I don't NEED to know. The little bit I have seen that seems contrary to the mundane fascinates me - maybe TOO much for my own good.

I am also keenly fascinated by the interplay between people, technology and society throughout time so I guess I find the subject of this thread fascinating even though it appears to have some sort of "taboo" aura surrounding it.