Who's REALLY got it worse: gays, lesbians, or bis?

[JohnnyV]

Hi all,

I wanted to touch on a topic that we allude to sometimes indirectly.

Most of us have expressed some frustration with the fact that people who identify as "gay" tend not to respect our identity as "bisexual."

One political reason I've heard from gays and lesbians is that bisexuality is "easier" and a more privileged position; that is, bisexuals suffer less oppression and are more accepted in mainstream society.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think we are less oppressed?

J

[open2both]

You're right. Gay men tell me I'm not acknowledging my "gayness" and women label me as an all out fag. Sheesh!

[huneypot]

iIthink bisexuality is completely missunderstood.
Poeple have so many conceptions of what they think it IS.
being gay/lesbian is much more acceptable and understood in society even if still frowned upon sometimes. And it is also easier to define.
Thank god i dont give a shit what people think :eek:

[JohnnyV]

iIthink bisexuality is completely missunderstood.
Poeple have so many conceptions of what they think it IS.
being gay/lesbian is much more acceptable and understood in society even if still frowned upon sometimes. And it is also easier to define.
Thank god i dont give a shit what people think :eek:

HOORAY! :bibounce: :) :male: :female: :2cents: :2cents: :rolleyes: :flag2: :tong:

[arana]

That's very true, Huney. Gay or Lesbian is pretty much cut and dry. But when you branch out to Bi, Transvestite, Transexual, etc...you become more complicated. I think it's funny that gay's would treat bi's the way I've heard about because it really wasn't that long ago that they were the ones being treated this way and you'd think they would have more compassion for people because of it.

[tatooedpunk]

I dont know,being bi myself maybe doesnt help I maybe think gays get the
shitiest deal

[moonlitwish]

IMO, bisexuals who suffer less oppression are the ones who lead hetero lives.
Those that choose to have same sex relationships are just as frowned upon as gays, if not more so b/c then the gays breathe down their necks over their bi identity. The double standard is obnoxious to say the least.

[wanderingrichard]

you know, much as i want to rant against the inequities perpetrated against the bi community, there is this recent, ranging, realization holding me back;

there are more of us than there are of them, [ hets and gays/lesbians ].. and they are only the squeaky hinge in the doors of life.

we are too complicated for the simple minded to understand or pigeon hole. we enjoy freedom of movement and choice that others are envious of.. and will not understand unless they attempt to walk our walk.

we normally have a wider and better range of educations and disciplines, we have partners and spouses whom normally reach out for help in understanding us, are bi themselves, or love us so much they are willing to allow us latitudes that monogamous relationships can never achieve.

it is time, i think, for us as a community, to repudiate by example and by demonstration, the slurs, allegations and falsehoods that the minority is throwing our way.

yes, doing the mature thing and not even qualifying their screams with response is normally the best course of action. but, as is stated in several religious texts, after you turn the other cheek, the gloves can come off.

it will all depend on how intelligently and tactfully we do it.

:2cents: :soapbox:

Rich

[smurf111978]

iIthink bisexuality is completely missunderstood.
Poeple have so many conceptions of what they think it IS.
being gay/lesbian is much more acceptable and understood in society even if still frowned upon sometimes. And it is also easier to define.
Thank god i dont give a shit what people think :eek:

Huney I think you have hit the nail on the head I totally agree with you. I also agree with you Arana it is very sad that many gay/lesbian people don’t embrace us and give us the same respect they expect from straight people. I feel so much more could be achieved if our two communities worked together instead of against each other. However I shall say that the gay friends I have don’t have a problem with me being bi.

With this in mind and statements from people denying our very existence I do feel Bi people are worse off.

Hugs
Smurfie
:bibounce: :bipride:

[JohnnyV]

Smurfie,

I will add this: I go on both gay.com and bisexual.com, and bisexual.com, even though it's tiny by comparison has a much better community to it. Part of what's nice about being bi is the variety of people you get. I can't imagine a social world without women.

I also think one advantage that bisexuals have over gays and lesbians is that there seems to a higher level of thought and intuition among self-identified bisexuals. I think that's because by their nature, bisexuals need to independent thinkers to buck the assumptions of everyone around them. So on a gut level I like talking to bi people better; my conversations are more fulfilling.

All this goes to show that bisexuals are better off due to the nature of bisexual people themselves; but gays and lesbians are generally more acceptable to the mainstream. So the usual gay criticism of us that we are "taking the easy way out" is 100% BULLSHIT!!!!!

J :cowboy: :compuser: :soapbox:

[Lorcan]

that is, bisexuals suffer less oppression and are more accepted in mainstream society.


yes, we as a whole, suffer less oppression.... because we, as a whole, are not OUT.

Just try wearing loud pride jewelry or clothing.... then you'll see the oppression.

[JohnnyV]

yes, we as a whole, suffer less oppression.... because we, as a whole, are not OUT.

Just try wearing loud pride jewelry or clothing.... then you'll see the oppression.


Good point, Lorcan! I saw on Drew's How Out Are You Survey, that the biggest category for this website is "not out at all" and the smallest is "out to everyone." Maybe gays do have a point that bisexuals take the easy way out. It doesn't apply to me as much, though, since I am out to everyone who asks, except maybe people at work I don't know well.

BTW, I was out as "gay" for a few years. I found that when I was gay, mainstream society may have remained more distant from me, but they also felt comfortable pigeonholing me, and I didn't freak them out because my life had nothing to do with theirs. They could joke around and still know that they'd never be at the same place as me. Now, as a bi guy married to a woman, people get FREAKED OUT. They feel like I'm an alien body snatcher -- the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

J

[mn freak]

It seems that being "out" is a bigger deal in the G/L world than in the bi world.
But we also don't close ourselves off from the rest of the world like the G/L do.We don't have certain movies,music,or books that we HAVE to read because we are bi. :2cents: :flag3:

[APMountianMan]

Good point, Lorcan! I saw on Drew's How Out Are You Survey, that the biggest category for this website is "not out at all" and the smallest is "out to everyone." Maybe gays do have a point that bisexuals take the easy way out. It doesn't apply to me as much, though, since I am out to everyone who asks, except maybe people at work I don't know well.

BTW, I was out as "gay" for a few years. I found that when I was gay, mainstream society may have remained more distant from me, but they also felt comfortable pigeonholing me, and I didn't freak them out because my life had nothing to do with theirs. They could joke around and still know that they'd never be at the same place as me. Now, as a bi guy married to a woman, people get FREAKED OUT. They feel like I'm an alien body snatcher -- the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

J


Yes, Lorcan makes a good point but the other side of the issue is how we are viewed by the gay and lesbian commuinties also. It is not just the straights that don't trust us it is other queers also. It's as if everyone wants us to be one way or the other and then they will accept. That is why a lot of us are not out, because we know that once out we may not even have the support of our queer brethern.

:cool: :2cents:

[Mrs.F]

I guess I don't see why society has to have a problem with any of this! So your gay, lesbian or bisexual. Your all human and have feelings and I would get along with all of you no matter what your sexual preference. My husband and I have gay male friends and I have known some lesbians and now have recently found out my husband is bisexual. Although finding out about my husband was a bit shocking, it does not change the way I view him as a man, husband or father.
I agree with Arana: The gay community had a very hard time with society accepting them, so why would "they" give bisexual's a hard time. Get over it and go on. You only live one life and however you choose to live it is your business!! For the stra8 people that don't accept gays, or bisexual's, it's only because they choose to be ignorant and refuse to be educated and understanding. So f$%^ them too! Live life to the fullest and enjoy every moment of it!! :2cents:

I"m str8 and love all you guys!! :rolleyes: :bigrin: :tong: :cool:

[12voltman59]

It is sort of fitting that we have these discussions going on on this day--the day that honors Martin Luther King, Jr.

All morning long my public radio station has been playing programs relating to King and his memory including in its entirety--his "I Have A Dream Speech."

Just as MLK wanted people to be judged not on the color of their skin, but their character--I don't want people to be judged on who they chose to love.

What we really do need to do is to drop all labels and such we put on others and ourselves. It is hard, but we need to stop looking at all the things that seperate us from one another and look at our common humanity.

Just as MLK dreamed of a world where it didn't matter the color of your skin--it mattered that you were a person of character--I share that dream with MLK as well and add that it doesn't matter what the plumbing is of the person or persons with whom you make love--and that you don't get judged one way or the other for that--just that you did love--fully and truly.

It may be an ideal--and "I may not get to see it with you" but a worthy ideal none-the-less to strive to --just as is the ideal of "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness....." is one worthy to aspire too even if our country has often failed to fullfill the promise of those words for so many.... (sorry about having the word "men" in there--that is the original word in the text--I would vote to change it to "persons" or other neutral term, but that would only spawn a senseless Battle Royale)

As to identfying myself as "bi" to the rest of the world--I have just come to an understanding of the term myself and that the label is a term that works for me--with my own personal version of the term and how to make it work in my life.

I don't want my sexual nature to define me to the rest of the world---if I have to have a label stuck on me--I would rather it be the term be "writer" or "artist"---what my sexuality is or isn't should not be germain.

Who I love "ain't nobody's business but my own" with the exception of the person(s) I love....

[secretsucr]

Good point, Lorcan! I saw on Drew's How Out Are You Survey, that the biggest category for this website is "not out at all" and the smallest is "out to everyone." Maybe gays do have a point that bisexuals take the easy way out. It doesn't apply to me as much, though, since I am out to everyone who asks, except maybe people at work I don't know well.

BTW, I was out as "gay" for a few years. I found that when I was gay, mainstream society may have remained more distant from me, but they also felt comfortable pigeonholing me, and I didn't freak them out because my life had nothing to do with theirs. They could joke around and still know that they'd never be at the same place as me. Now, as a bi guy married to a woman, people get FREAKED OUT. They feel like I'm an alien body snatcher -- the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

J
Straight people without any gay or bisexual leanings tend to lose their "point of reference" with bisexual behavior. These are my thoughts. They know and understand gay people preferences, but have a hard time adjusting to the concept of someone liking both sexes. And if it makes them uncomfortable, it makes me uncomfortable to talk to them about it. Hence, I'm one of the majority of Drew's poll who is still locked in the closet.

[WillowTree]

I think people who are gay have a much better chance of being accepted in society. Even if straight people frown on them or their lifestyle, they will always find acceptance amongst the gay community. Bisexual people, unfortunately, don't always have that. The gay community isn't always accepting of bisexuals, any more so than straights.

[Driver 8]

Something else I've run into from gays and lesbians is the reasoning "bisexuals are less oppressed than gays and lesbian; therefore, bisexual issues are not important."

Seems to me there are several things that go into the "bisexuals are less oppressed" statement. It is true that bisexuals in opposite-sex relationships have access to privileges that people in same-sex relationships don't, and are significantly (if not entirely) shielded from discrimination. There also seems to be a perception among many gays and lesbians that bisexuals never have same-sex relationships, just furtive sneaky sex that can be hidden from the world.

The "bisexual issues are not important" part is almost too silly to respond to, but sometimes you get the well-meaning (but, I think, wrong) that by addressing specifically gay and lesbian issues, bisexual issues get taken care of, too.

I think it's important not to get sidetracked into "which is more wrong?" and lose track of "this is what's wrong - what can be done to make it better?" (Not that this is what JohnyV, or anyone who's posted on this thread, is trying to do - but it's certainly the first thing I thought when I saw the thread.)

And I also think there are some things that bisexuals do that alienate gays and lesbians ... but that should probably be a thread in its own right ...

:2cents:

[Lorcan]

I think people who are gay have a much better chance of being accepted in society. Even if straight people frown on them or their lifestyle, they will always find acceptance amongst the gay community. Bisexual people, unfortunately, don't always have that. The gay community isn't always accepting of bisexuals, any more so than straights.


That is why we have to form our own community,
IN PERSON, NOT ON LINE.
Geez is anyone listening to me?
Anyone from Colorado especially?
:banghead:

[12voltman59]

That is why we have to form our own community,
IN PERSON, NOT ON LINE.
Geez is anyone listening to me?
Anyone from Colorado especially?
:banghead:


Well Lorcan--it would great to have a bi community formed in my community but it would apparently not be very large since there are no more than a few others from my local area who are members and it would be unlikely to have the degree of diveristy this web site does in terms of where people live and to the degree of knowledge and experience of those here.
This web site may not be the perfect answer for meeting people but it does a pretty good job in my humble opinion. :2cents: :color: :color: :color:

[Lorcan]

yeah Voltman, i'm not saying "in person" INSTEAD of "online". I want them both.

And i don't want to meet for sex. I want some people willing to go out to see a movie... go out for drinks...eat lunch...go hiking...go bowling for god sakes... anything.

[moonlitwish]

That is why we have to form our own community,
IN PERSON, NOT ON LINE.
Geez is anyone listening to me?
Anyone from Colorado especially?
:banghead:

Gee, I'd love to form a community in my area, but I can count the number of bis I know on one hand. Plus, I'm no social butterfly, so meeting new ones is kinda difficult as there is no entertainment in the immediate area that caters to such interests.

[12voltman59]

Lorcan--I agree with you 100%--it would be great to be able to do the things you talk about---but like I said--for whatever reason--there are only like four or five other people that are members from my town and they are all males--I do want to also hang out with some bi ladies or str8 ladies that are cool with bi--so for now--I am out of luck.
It looks like the folks from Massachusetts and a few other places could have some nice groups form---there are sure a good number from that state on here---
I do understand your frustration in not being able to find many bisexual people to talk to out in the "real" world--it does not seem to be that of a thing to do in many places--its not a subject that usually comes up "in polite company." If it does--everyone has to talk about how gross and sick they think that such a thing would be and it not be anything they would want to do....at least admit to it anyway... :smilies12

[Driver 8]

Just this weekend I went to a local bi group event and spent it being interrupted and insulted by the straight husband of one of the organizers. Never again! (And I'm sure he'd call it "teasing," but teasing is between friends, not between strangers who met five minutes previous.)

I've seen problems like this at other local bi groups - my impression is that they're started by friends who are bi and want to see a bi community, but don't stop and ask themselves "why would someone get involved with our group if they weren't already our friend?"

(And, yes, I've been involved with organizing local bi and GLBT groups and appreciate how much work it is.)

[eyelinerprincess]

going back to the original topic, I think it depends on who you're talking to...

In my experience, I've had my friends from my GLBT group saying "either you're gay or straight, you can't be both..." but I was out a few weeks ago, and I was pretty drunk, and kissed my female mate and a few guys, and no one seemed to care...

I had a decent point, but it's 2am here, and my brain's frazzled from too much physics, so I'll continue it tomorrow

[osuwizzard]

From my very limited experience, my last girlfriend seemed to enjoy that I am bi (read: possibility of a threesome), but was deathly afraid I would leave her for a guy. Especially since I have never been with a guy before.

:flag4:

[rumple4skin]

...
Most of us have expressed some frustration with the fact that people who identify as "gay" tend not to respect our identity as "bisexual."

One political reason I've heard from gays and lesbians is that bisexuality is "easier" and a more privileged position; that is, bisexuals suffer less oppression and are more accepted in mainstream society.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think we are less oppressed?

J
I do not think that bi's are more or less oppressed than gays or lesbians I just think that the oppression may come from a different angle. I think that people that do the oppressing like to oppress anyone who is different. I also do not think that being bi is easier. I have at times felt very misunderstood by some of my straight friends and gay friends and kind of felt that I had no group to be a part of. I think being bi has made me feel more isolated at times. I think if I “picked a team” as I have heard people say I would have had an easier time of things. My friends and family who know I am bi accept it. I suspect if I was gay that they would still accept me. I have had women I have dated express strong negative views on M/M sex. I do not think a gay person has to run the risk of a sexual partner expressing a dislike of their sexuality.

The big “gay” issue that comes to mind is same sex marriages. But that is also a bi issue as well I. If I wanted to marry another guy then they would say no so I do not think that bi’s have more privileges or are more accepted. We can just take advantage of the same privileges as the hetros if we want to. I heard some DJs on the radio the other day that said a “study” recently claimed that there is no such thing as a bisexual person, that a bisexual person was really a gay person trying not to be gay. I did not hear the whole thing but I think the DJs may have taken the study out of context if indeed the study was ever conducted at all but that is not the first time I had heard that sentiment. There have probably been gays that have had people tell them that they are not gay or lesbian that they are just afraid of commitment or other such nonsense but I doubt anyone has ever said there is no such thing as gay people. I think it is a little disappointing that some members of the gay/ lesbian community think I should pick a side or that being bi I have less social issues to deal with then they do but I know not all gay or lesbians feel that way. I guess if it really bothered me I would start some bi activist group but the truth is I am too lazy and I do not really care about social acceptance enough. It would be a lot nicer if people could focus on the common ground instead of what can drive us apart. For myself I like to try to be tolerant and understanding of others even if they as not as tolerant or understanding as I would like them to be (but I do have my limits ;)).

There. I have typed much and said nothing.: confused: Hopefully I will be more concise in future posts. If I have missed the point let me know – just be kind when you point out my ignorance.