Threatened by one but not the other

[talking2trees]

Just to let everyone know, I am so glad to have found this site! It comes at a perfect moment in my life:bigrin:

So my husband and I have recently come up against a problem that we/he can't get past. When we first started dating, I informed him that I wanted to live a polyamorous lifestyle, that I have dated both guys and girls, and that he really needed to decide if he could handle that before we got into the relationship further. He disappeared for about a week, then came back and said that he was committed to me and making this lifestyle work. Now, it is 6 years later, and he has said that he can't handle me dating guys anymore. He feels no threat from any woman I want to get involved with (I suspect because sometimes he gets part of the action), but every time a new guy comes into my life he feels hurt, not good enough, etc. (my husband is straight, btw). I have always been honest and straightforward about every relationship, and some of these relationships are now what I consider part of our family. But now he wants me to stop. I feel sideswipped and completely at a loss on how to handle it.

I should also mention that I have definitely had more lovers than he has, and he definitely keeps track. He feels like I get to go out and have all the fun, and he's stuck at home with nobody. But he has difficulties going out and meeting people anyway (I definitely plan most of the social life we have!), and I feel that most of this is his old emotional hurts and baggage coming up from relationships before he met me. If anyone has any advice or insight here, I'd love to hear it.

[DiamondDog]

Stop dating and having sex with men and women?
Consider your husband your #1 priority in your life for a relationship and don't consider the other ex sexual partners to be part of your "family" even if you're just friends?
Let your husband have sex with lots of other women besides you?
Close/lock the relationship?
Get a divorce and have sex with whoever you want?

Just some ideas. :2cents:

[MaybeSayMaybe]

Save the marriage. A good one isn't easy to come by.

[canuckotter]

Dunno the whole situation, but on the surface, it kind of sounds like your husband made a very serious effort to adjust to a relationship model he wasn't entirely certain about, and after years of trying, he's come to realise that he's just not comfortable with it. Some people just aren't cut out for monogamy, and some people just aren't cut out for polyamory. :)

Basically... Up until now, your husband's being the only one compromising (in this matter), and he seems to have found that he can't handle the current arrangements any more. He's asking you to meet him half-way, to help him fulfill his needs for perceived security and safety in the relationship. It's no more greedy for him to request monogamy if it fulfills his needs than it is for you to request polyamoury if it fulfills your needs.

Of course, you both have the right to try to fulfill your needs. It's not fair to him to try to force him into a relationship model that he can't handle, and it's not fair to you to force you into a relationship model that you can't handle. Perhaps there's no compromise that'll satisfy both of you, but if there is an arrangement that'll work, you're a lot more likely to find it if you go into the discussion with the understanding that your husband is compromising on his own needs for the sake of staying with you and trying to make sure that you still meet your needs, too.

Anyway. Just felt like throwing in an alternative viewpoint for you. :)

[Bi_Druid]

I'm inclined t agree with canuckotter.

I'll give you points for letting him know from the word go what you were looking for, in a poly relationship. If something like that had come up any later it would have only been worse.
And points to him for trying his best to adapt to your needs.

But like the above posting, it sounds like you both need to try and come to a half way house, otherwise, the only other likely sensible option would be to probably call it quits and part amicably. If he's feeling in any way threatened by your polyamory, and you're not comfortable giving it up, then we you may unfortunately have a square-peg-round-hole situation here.

[PearlGirl]

I would recommend picking up a copy of the book "The Ethical Slut" and finding a relationship therapist who is bi/poly/kink friendly to help you each explore ways to work this out. Good luck!:2cents:

[PearlGirl]

Oh, just one more thing... I've always found it rather sexist when my male primary partner says women are o.k. but not men. (Although this has often happened in my relationships.) I wonder what the rest of you here at bi.com think about this viewpoint since it seems to be such a common reaction from str8 male partners.

Am I right on with this or off the deep end?:confused:

[jem_is_bi]

Oh, just one more thing... I've always found it rather sexist when my male primary partner says women are o.k. but not men. (Although this has often happened in my relationships.) I wonder what the rest of you here at bi.com think about this viewpoint since it seems to be such a common reaction from str8 male partners.

Am I right on with this or off the deep end?:confused:

I do not know if that is sexist. I totally understand and am completely ok with my male partner taking care of his occasional need to be with a female (he is open with me about it and only rarely has the urge for more than me). But, I would feel hurt if he sought other males to take care of his for male-to-male sexual desires.

[DiamondDog]

Oh, just one more thing... I've always found it rather sexist when my male primary partner says women are o.k. but not men. (Although this has often happened in my relationships.) I wonder what the rest of you here at bi.com think about this viewpoint since it seems to be such a common reaction from str8 male partners.

Am I right on with this or off the deep end?:confused:

What if you were with a woman and she said that other men were OK but not other women? Would that be "sexist" in your opinion?

Also why would a therapist/marriage counselor that specializes in knowing about kink/bondage/SM be helpful to this couple who is arguing and having issues about their open relationship, and not fighting about anything that's related to kink/bondage/SM?

[void()]

Wife and I are fine in our relationship. Here's the recipe.

I don't go after other women. Tried it once to appease a lady friend's thoughts of changing me. It did not work out well at all. Lady friend soon began pushing for wife and I to split up with her taking the wife's place. Not saying all women would but that was my past experience w/ another woman. Now, I have one woman and she's quite enough.

Got a boyfriend now, too. He's enough as well.

So, wife and I agree that I can 'play outside' but not with ladies. That suits me fine because I think one lady and one guy are all any fellow needs. But I'm weird so take it or leave it as you see fit.

[talking2trees]

Thanks to everyone...it's really helpful to hear from people not emeshed in the emotional situation.

I've come to the same conclusion that many people suggested. I've agreed to be monogamous (with men) for a year to give him space to breathe and figure out what he needs with this. My marriage and my husband come first...that was one of our "rules" in the first place.

But I agree that it is a little lopsided that he's ok with me seeing women but not men. But maybe I need to just chalk that up to biology. Maybe the territorial aspect with men is still there, and we haven't found a good way around it.

- Cristi

[Realist]

T2T,

It seems to me that you made it clear, up front, what your interests and desires were. From where I sit, he's the one who hasn't learned to live within the scope of the original agreement.

My last marriage ended for almost the same reason. We began with an understand that I was bi and then, later, she decided she wasn't happy and wanted to change in middle of the stream. I tried to accept her wishes and change, but I couldn't.

I agree, with Void Dweller.............that one of each is best, though. Luckily, for the first time in my life, I have one of each and they are the best examples of who I could hope for.

[canuckotter]

Oh, just one more thing... I've always found it rather sexist when my male primary partner says women are o.k. but not men. (Although this has often happened in my relationships.) I wonder what the rest of you here at bi.com think about this viewpoint since it seems to be such a common reaction from str8 male partners.

Am I right on with this or off the deep end?:confused:
I've seen good and bad reasons for that attitude... In some cases it's because the partner sees same-sex relationships as inferior or "just playing" or second-class or whatever else you want to call it... That's a bad reason to have that arrangement. :) In other cases, it's just biology... We're wired (most of us) to see others of the same gender as competition for our mates. It doesn't necessarily make logical sense, but it's hard to overcome biology, especially in an area so heavily loaded with emotions and passions to begin with. But the instincts that view others of the same gender as competition don't necessarily kick in when the "competition" is the opposite gender... So in the OP's husband's case, he's got a bunch of instincts telling him that other guys are competition but women aren't, or at least they're not kicking in as strongly. So folks like the OP's husband, who take same-sex attractions seriously, are able to tamp down the milder instinctive reaction to that "competition" out of respect for his wife's needs.

I lean more towards the "Same-sex play doesn't trigger any instincts and I need to respect my wife's needs" camp... whereas my wife doesn't make any distinction between genders and finds any discussion of any kind of open relationship as threatening. So we're monogamous. :)

I wonder if guys maybe tend to have a different set of instincts on this issue than women do?

[trubipoly]

It sounds like before you were married you had explained that you are polyamorous and that you wanted to remain that way, he stepped back looked at the situation and then decided to go forward with you and get married. Now he has found that he cant handle all of it and wants to have you change who you were when you married.Not only is that not fair but it never works in the long run.I am in no way saying to disregard his feelings but don't let your feelings be disregarded at the same time. So many times people go into marriage not being thier true self and then later can't handle it later on and either cheat or the marriage fails and there is the people that get married and then want to change the person they married and again the marriage fails.You sound like you went into this marriage truely being yourself and now he wants to change that,doesnt sound fair to me. I hope you two can find a solution that doesnt result in the end of your marriage but keep in mind that you are who you are and changing that never fixes things. good luck. its a hard call.

[csrakate]

As the spouse of a bisexual, I have to weigh in on what the OP's spouse may be feeling. I agree with the others that for her to sleep with other men DOES lead to him feeling somewhat territorial and for that reason, he finds it unacceptable to what makes him feel secure in his relationship. For myself, if my spouse were to have sex with men, it is something that I cannot compete with...therefore allowing me to accept it as something that will not threaten MY relationship with him. For him to sleep with other women would lend itself to feelings of insecurity and jealously...perhaps fueling feelings of being less of a woman than the hypothetical woman he could sleep with. It's not a matter of being sexist...it's a matter of being comfortable with the person they desire as "competition" for affection.

I realize that the OP's husband agreed to this situation when they got married, but until you actually experience the feelings that go along with such an arrangement, it is much easier to say yes at the thought and the fantasy of it than it is to accept the reality of it all.

Kate

[**Peg**]

...I realize that the OP's husband agreed to this situation when they got married, but until you actually experience the feelings that go along with such an arrangement, it is much easier to say yes at the thought and the fantasy of it than it is to accept the reality of it all.

Kate


excellent point kate (as usual)

[PearlGirl]

What if you were with a woman and she said that other men were OK but not other women? Would that be "sexist" in your opinion?

Also why would a therapist/marriage counselor that specializes in knowing about kink/bondage/SM be helpful to this couple who is arguing and having issues about their open relationship, and not fighting about anything that's related to kink/bondage/SM?

Thanks to JEM, Diamond Dog and Canuckotter for sounding off and sharing your opinions about this. It's great to hear some perspectives from other bi folks on the gender issue in poly relationships.

In response to Diamond Dog's questions:

If I was involved with a woman and she said that other men were OK but not other women that would be sexist in my personal opinion. I have dated women who constantly asked me, "Are you still with that GUY?!" and I ended those relationships because I felt my other partner wasn't being respected based only on gender considerations.

As for the therapist recommendation I didn't mention anything about bondage or S/M friendly therapists in my post...just a therapist who was preferably "bi/poly/kink" friendly. Some in the therapy community consider poly to be a "kink" and I was thinking about the website where my partner and I found several excellent therapists which is called: "Kink Aware Professionals"

They have a database of Doctors, Dentists, Therapists, and Clergy who are non-judgmental about sex and are familiar with the positive nature of many sexual behaviors, interests, and subcultures including polyamory.

If anyone is interested the website is: http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap (http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap)

[alegrias]

I don't understand why you got married in the first place. It sounds like you're more committed to your poly lifestyle than to your marriage. And you wonder why your husband has a problem with that?

I'm poly too, even though I have been completely monogamous for the past 25 years. If and when I do play, my husband will be a participant.

Maybe what you need is a husband who is also poly . . .

[curious44]

I see a steep uphill battle for this one to work out and, unfortunately, the 2 kids are going to be the big losers. She's 33 with a strong libido and he's 56.
She likes the variety of multiple partners of both sexes and he'd rather be monogamous. Like many guys, he was thinking with the one eyed snake when he married her. "I'll go along with her games because she's hot and I still get to have sex with a woman 23 years younger than me". Now 2 kids and 6 years later he's tiring of the game but she's still young and horny and not ready to quit. Sorry, Guy, but my wife was just as horny at that age too. (So was I) The difference is we are the same age. I'm 64 now and I would have a helluva time keeping up with her if she was 41 again.
One more thing: I know older guys who have married these young trophies and had kids with them. Are they nuts? They'll be pushing 70 and trying to control a couple wild ass teenagers. Good Luck!

[rissababynta]

i also don't find it sexist to be comfortabe with this situation happening with one sex over the other. I mean, men and women are very dfferent, which is why you feel the need for a change sometimes. The way my hubby put it was like this..."There are things that a woman can fulfill tht I obviously can't and never quite will, but all of the needs a man can fulfill I'm perfect for. The only reason why I could see you going to another man woud be because I haven't quite been doing it right and that's upsetting. I can't be the only woman in your life but I should be the only man". And I TOTALLY get that.

It's funny though..cause I never wanted another man ANYWAY...but he likes to rant...

[alegrias]

i also don't find it sexist to be comfortabe with this situation happening with one sex over the other. I mean, men and women are very dfferent, which is why you feel the need for a change sometimes. The way my hubby put it was like this..."There are things that a woman can fulfill tht I obviously can't and never quite will, but all of the needs a man can fulfill I'm perfect for. The only reason why I could see you going to another man woud be because I haven't quite been doing it right and that's upsetting. I can't be the only woman in your life but I should be the only man". And I TOTALLY get that.

It's funny though..cause I never wanted another man ANYWAY...but he likes to rant...

I totally get what you're saying. I feel the same way myself. Since I have been married, I have never fantasized about being with another man because my husband completely fills that need for me. However, I've had plenty of fantasies about being with a woman. . .

[BiBear4U]

Oh, just one more thing... I've always found it rather sexist when my male primary partner says women are o.k. but not men. (Although this has often happened in my relationships.) I wonder what the rest of you here at bi.com think about this viewpoint since it seems to be such a common reaction from str8 male partners.

Am I right on with this or off the deep end?:confused:

It's not necessarily sexist... works the other way around too - it may have to do with insecure str8 partner?

I'm Bi and my wife is straight. She is not threatened by me being with another man, in fact thinks it is very hot and likes to participate, but she refuses to ever give me permission to touch another woman in any way.

Would not be with another couple or a ffm thresome.

I'm truly Bi and like both women and men, I love my wife and its not really a problem for me, but it is a huge double standard that she admits, because she is with another man/men.

We have a regular boyfriend that is together with us in thresomes most of the time but sometimes they go on short trips without me (usually because my work schedule does not permit me to go) they do not hide lie or cheat, I know what is happening.

I understand the other side of the coin too ...Polyamory is definetly not for everyone, as nonjealous as I am, as philosophical as I am, as secure as we are together. Sometimes when I see my wife with another man and she is thrilled in new ways or better than I can ...it gives me a little hurt...because I want to be so much to her...I want to be her everything. maybe that is how he feels. Sometimes I have felt like a third wheel or left out too, and that hurts and is hard to overlook sometimes. Our boyfriend is not as Bi as I am and participates with me but clearly, clearly she is his favorite and that hurts too!

But overall, I could not deny her the pleasure I have seen her have with others, and I have had great pleasure in our MMF thresomes and with other Guys. So it is worth the hard feelings...it gives me the opportunity to grow as a person and be more accepting and less jealous, and as for the double standard - I wish she didn't feel that way, it would not affect my love for her if I were with another woman - and I would probably only incidentially be with another woman as part of a couple or group but if that is how she truly deeply feels I honor her feelings.

I might suggest trying to include him and not leaving him out, ask him to be a part of your relationships with other guys, let him know them and watch and participate. I understand he is straight...but maybe he is feeling left out, or not special, or he feels you are looking for something he cant give you from another man. You don't have to be Bi to have a MFM thresome, and you might enjoy it too!

just my two cents worth and probably not worth that :2cents:

[PearlGirl]

Thanks for your :2cents: BiBear4U! Worth a dollar at least!

[csrakate]

It's not necessarily sexist... works the other way around too - it may have to do with insecure str8 partner?

I'm Bi and my wife is straight. She is not threatened by me being with another man, in fact thinks it is very hot and likes to participate, but she refuses to ever give me permission to touch another woman in any way.

Would not be with another couple or a ffm thresome.

I'm truly Bi and like both women and men, I love my wife and its not really a problem for me, but it is a huge double standard that she admits, because she is with another man/men.

We have a regular boyfriend that is together with us in thresomes most of the time but sometimes they go on short trips without me (usually because my work schedule does not permit me to go) they do not hide lie or cheat, I know what is happening.

I understand the other side of the coin too ...Polyamory is definetly not for everyone, as nonjealous as I am, as philosophical as I am, as secure as we are together. Sometimes when I see my wife with another man and she is thrilled in new ways or better than I can ...it gives me a little hurt...because I want to be so much to her...I want to be her everything. maybe that is how he feels. Sometimes I have felt like a third wheel or left out too, and that hurts and is hard to overlook sometimes. Our boyfriend is not as Bi as I am and participates with me but clearly, clearly she is his favorite and that hurts too!

But overall, I could not deny her the pleasure I have seen her have with others, and I have had great pleasure in our MMF thresomes and with other Guys. So it is worth the hard feelings...it gives me the opportunity to grow as a person and be more accepting and less jealous, and as for the double standard - I wish she didn't feel that way, it would not affect my love for her if I were with another woman - and I would probably only incidentially be with another woman as part of a couple or group but if that is how she truly deeply feels I honor her feelings.

I might suggest trying to include him and not leaving him out, ask him to be a part of your relationships with other guys, let him know them and watch and participate. I understand he is straight...but maybe he is feeling left out, or not special, or he feels you are looking for something he cant give you from another man. You don't have to be Bi to have a MFM thresome, and you might enjoy it too!

just my two cents worth and probably not worth that :2cents:

BiBear4U,
I am touched that you care so much for your wife that you allow her those freedoms, but is she aware of how much this hurts you? I don't think any couple should allow so much freedom that causes pain or hurt to either of them....and I hope you let her know that her constant trips alone with this guy are hardly meeting the needs of you both. Just seems a bit one sided to me considering you are seeking a "co-habitating equal triad" as your profile describes.

Hugs,
Kate