phat_vampyre
Jan 13, 2006, 12:09 AM
Bisexuals may already know that love, lust, and expression vary not only from person to person, but from bisexual individual to bisexual individual. But what about those who are not only bisexual, but also hard wired for love in synthesis with pain or subjugation. Okay, I know this sounds like an invitation to the ball, that is, to an off topic direction that may or may not be remotely related to bisexuality, but what it really is, is something I feel needs to be opened up for topic, as those with answers can benefit and keep safe many people who come here, regardless of their own sexual orientation or predisposition.
Specifically, among us who are bisexual are also those who are either Dominant or Submissive, or into pain and bondage, who need people to talk about safety when engaging in such practices with their lover(s). Why here? Because for every one person who speaks and asks questions, one hundred need answers but will not ask, and I have come across more than one person who has had questions, and I don't, honestly, have all the answers. This 1:100 ratio is a basic law of knowledge and business, and I am certain it applies also to knowledge of life in general, and to knowledge of love and expression of love.
For starters, experienced Doms among us need to talk about restraint, not just restraints, and emotional issues of trust and love, so that others can understand how this ties into their treatment of Subs. Doms and Subs need to express their needs, and how best to experience those needs safely, from both perspectives. Toys and their safe thresholds of use might also be a good way to go.
Anybody with experience, please jump right in. If you post a website, and it has more than one product, please give us the product of focus so we can work outward from there.
MObiCouple
Jan 13, 2006, 5:22 AM
PV,
A deliciously profound topic. Thanks for bringing it up!!!
While my wife and I are relatively new to these forums, we are both comfortable with our (bi)sexuality as well as our leanings toward BDSM. That said, let's go!
BDSM. It brings some many images to mind. Chains, leather, gags, blindfolds, a dungeon in a basement... locked to the outside world, a Mistress with spiked heels and a riding crop, a Master in leather chaps with a firm, punishing hand...
Let us take a moment to define BDSM. www.bondage.com can do a better job than I, but I will attempt it none the less. BDSM. Those four letters have a tri-fold meaning for most practitioners. B&D : Bondage/Discipline, D/s Donimation/Sumbission, and S/M: Sadism/Masochism. I'll use definitions from the above website for simplicity.
Bondage : Making a submissive physically helpless and to a great extent immobilized. Techniques include rope ties, handcuffs, leather cuffs, stocks and mummification.
Discipline : Whipping, spanking, verbal orders, etc for the purpose of training a submissive.
Dominant : A Top. One who controls a bottom or submissive.
Submissive : An individual who consents to give up power to a Dominant. This can be for any duration - for an hour or a lifetime.
Sadist : An individual who enjoys causing pain. The term dates back to the Marquis de Sade.
Masochist : One who gets pleasure from pain.
And just for the hell of it:
Sadomasochism: The "perversion" of taking pleasure, especially sexual gratification from simultaneous sadism and masochism.
Vanilla: Sex without BDSM, or people not in the BDSM lifestyle.
Last, but not least: Safe, Sane and Consensual: A popular slogan in the BDSM world meaning that play should always be safe, with good judgment exercised. And, most importantly, it MUST be consensual.
Now that we have that out of the way, let me get a few other details down before I begin.
First, I'd like to explain the nature of my relationship with my wife, concerning BDSM. We have Vanilla sex. A LOT of Vanilla sex. Why? We are both of the opinion, and it is our opinion, that too much of one thing gets boring. When the mood for BDSM strikes us, I am the Dom and she is the Sub. Here, it is very important to note that both of us have extremely strong personalities and as individuals, we consider ourselves, as well as each other, 'Strong' people. Outside of BDSM, my wife is my equal in all things. ALL THINGS. For us, between us, this works.
Having stated our roles in BDSM, I must now define our particulars. I am a Sadomasochist. I enjoy giving pain as well as receiving it. Whilst 'playing', spanking my wife turns me on. Having her cat-scratch my flesh, turns me on. My wife is a masochist. She enjoys the slash of the scourge, the sting of the paddle and my teeth sinking into the flesh of her ass. She also enjoys being restrained. Chains and cuffs, nylons used as restraints, simply using my own strength to hold her wrists where I want them... you get the picture. I, on the other hand, love denying a sub the use of their limbs, and reinforcing in them that they exist solely for my pleasure, while 'playing'.
Now, on to the first part of the show. BDSM is another way to enjoy each other physically, mentally and spiritually, but it is not the only way we do so. Our relationship is built on mutual respect, love and trust. I enjoy my wife's many charms whether she is bound and gagged, or freed to express her feelings with her entire body. As I said before, we have A LOT of Vanilla sex. Our current choice of employment doesn't allow for many BDSM experiences as we travel a lot. How ever, the job does allow for expressions in other 'variant' tastes. Sex in the wilderness, on the beach, or in a crowded mall all hit our 'to do' list when out in the world.
Why does BDSM enter our lives? My wife, and I love her even more every day for this, is the most powerful woman I have ever met. In every day life, she is a shining example of strength, tenacity and 'having the balls' to get what needs to be done, done, for me. Not only is she my best friend, but in many ways, she is a hero to me. Being a woman of such power, every now and then, it is a great turn on for her to have that power taken from her. According to her, she's never done this with any of her previous lovers as the trust wasn't there. Beings that we take each others lives in our hands every day, the trust that has developed in our daily, working lives by necessity, has boiled over into every aspect of our lives.
I feel a brief explanation is needed here. After ten years in the information technology field, I got sick. Sick of the corporate life, sick of having to kiss someone’s ass to get a promotion or a raise, and sick of having to toe the company line and screwing any expression of who I am so that I and my family can eat. I finally got feel up with it Jan 3, 05 and walked away from it all. I had worked in IT for the military, for Dell in Texas, for a investment firm in Mississippi, for a consultation company in Missouri and for a number of smaller 'ma and pa' start ups here and there. I walked away from it all. A friend said "See American through the windshield and keep our country moving" and I said, what the hell. I went through training two weeks later and have been driving a 'big truck', read eight-teen wheeler, since. For my physical and mental health, it's the best move I've ever made. My wife joined me six months later. When you go to sleep in an 80,000 pound, gross weight, rolling box, that cannot stop on a dime, you better damn well trust the person who is driving it, or you are not going to sleep and you end up killing yourself, your co driver and that family of six in the minivan beside you. Thus, trust, above all else, is the most important aspect of our personal and professional relationship. Ok, so the explanation wasn't so brief. Sorry.
With BDSM, trust is a must. My wife trusts me to give her exactly what she wants and to stop EVERYTHING as soon as she utters the safe word, if she's not gagged, or gives a double middle finger sign if she is gagged. Trust in any relationship is a must, but I daresay it is even more so in one that involves BDSM.
Communication. Talk to your sub or dom. Express, in detail, what it is you want. If one of the pair, or group, doesn't know what they want, explore... SAFELY. A sub must trust their dom. Period. Without trust, there is nothing. Without Communication, there can be no trust. As I am a sadomasochist, I can say that I love being scratched, to the point of bloodletting. But touch one of my nipples with anything resembling pain, and I'm going through the roof. My wife, she enjoys being spanked. I love spanking her. It gets us both off. But I know that if I come at her with a candle dripping wax, she's going to go ballistic. We know each other's limitations, we have had that talk many times now when we are both awake and rolling down the highway. Communication, not once, but constantly.
As far as communication goes, we also do a 'post-play time' critique. No, not right after 'play time', but within a few days. What did I like, what did she like? What did either of us not want to happen again. I think I got that point across now.
Ok. Sorry for writing a damn book. Guess I'm a little enthused about this subject. Moving on.
(Part 2)
Now, we introduce our Bi-sides. My wife and I are poly-monogamous. Ouch, that hurt. What does that mean? Well, she can fuck anyone she wants to, she just needs to ask me. Likewise, I can fuck anyone I want to, I just need to clear it with her. We also selectively swing.
Where does BDSM come into this? My wife, when with another woman, typically takes the Dom side of the affair. She has her own tastes in women and if given the ok, will mildly dom the other. That is as far as I will go on that subject.
I, on the other hand, both top and bottom with other males whom I am attracted to. There are only three men that I have gotten into a sort of BDSM relationship with. Because one of them turned me onto this forum, I won't mention any names. We'll call them 1, 2 and 3. Novel idea, eh? lol
I was in the military, and while still young(and having gotten in just after the 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy) I didn't know I was bi yet. Yes, I had always had feelings for select males. Nope, never did anything about them, but didn't feel ashamed about it either. It was in this time of self-discovery, physical, mental and spiritual, that I me 1. He and I hated each other instantly. The hatred lasted for about a week. I won't go into detail, but he showed up to my room, with a six pack and said, "We need to talk." Six hours and four more six packs later, we were joined at the hip. If you saw one of us, the other wasn't to far away. And that was that.
We both got out, lived with each other, had a falling out and didn't talk to each other for nine years. We got back in contact after that long period, forgave each other for being young and stupid and are back of very good terms again. We talk at least weekly (he lives in another state and my cell company give me free nights and weekends... lol) and have finally been able to express in words, what we felt way back in the day but were to young and insecure to admit. Out of our talks has come the probability of sleeping with each other, our wives already have given permission, as well as the possibility of BDSM. In his own words, "I'm a slutty sub, and fucking proud of it!" Yes, my cock's twitched a number of times at the thought and shortly, will be making this old fantasy into a reality. Yay me! (three more weeks!)
For 1, as he is my brother in all but blood, he and I have already fallen back on what works for my wife and I. I trust him with my life and the reverse is true. We've talked, extensively(Flint, MI to LA, CA is a long trip), and each of us have a good idea of what each other likes and dislikes. We already have a safe word in place. We already have gestures should he decide he wishes to be bound. Safe, Sane, and Consensual.
PV asked about love. I hope I made it clear, I love my wife. Do I love 1? You fuckin'-A right. I'd die for him. And he for me. Do we need to fuck each other to express that. No, we've known from the begining, thirteen years ago. Are we going to anyway.. Hell yeah! Am I going to tie his sweet sub ass down, have my way with him, and then give him his own 'release' once he's satisfied me? Details later.
2 was another man I met around the same time I met 1. We always kept in touch through the years, but only recently became interested in each other. He is a sub. While B&D is not part of our sexual relationship, D/s and S/M are. Like I said, he's a sub. I take control when life let's us get together. He enjoys the leather strop across his ass as well the candle wax that my wife will have my balls for. By mutual consent, I guide the play. We typically start out in the shower, making sure each other is clean. Normally, this is followed by some oral play, but not to the point of orgasm. Then, "The more you suffer for me, the greater your reward." And suffer he does. He suffers greatly for his reward, and we collapse into a heap of flesh and blissfully snore away the rest of the night. It doesn’t happen every time I'm in his town. But, at an unspoken signal, we leave the women-folk to themselves and he's my 'bitch' for the night. This is another man that I would gladly lay my life down for at the drop of a hat. Ours is also a relationship based on trust as well as love. He and I hunt and fish together. We drink together when ever I'm in town. And there are times that the D/s doesn't enter our sexual relationship at all. He's a friend with perks.
3 is a work in progress. This is an almost unique case as I've only read about something similar, but never have seen it. Guy #3 was my wife's first. When she first spoke of him, I felt threatened. She and I were still in our first steps as an item and her being friends with this guy that took her virginity was a foreign concept for me. NO MAN SHALL KNOW MY WIFE.... yeah, yeah, yeah. I talked with him for six hours over the phone before my wedding and he ended up being one of my groomsmen, we just had way to much in common. We met, in person, two days before my wedding and we hit it off. By that time, I was already comfortable with my sexuality and as the friendship blossomed I could also tell that I wanted into his pants, both giving and receiving... Damn he's still hot. Anyway, beings that we weren't going on the honeymoon until four days after the wedding, he and a few other guests stuck around for a few days. Two days after the wedding, just he was left. I introduced my wife and I as swingers and asked him to join us in bed. As he was decidedly straight,at the time, so I kept hands off and enjoyed the sight of my wife taking pleasure from one of her best friends.
Since that time, he's come and gone with his own job. He's a local now and we get to play as our job lets us. He has also let it be known that he is curious and things are working nicely in that regard. Also, with one particularly hot night, in which my wife wanted to be bound, 'punished' and taken, we found out that he has a natural talent for being a dom. I have taken him under my wing, and with the wife's blessings, I've begun training him.
Dom lesson number 1? Forget everything you ever watched in a BDSM porn video. It's bullshit. It's all for show and well, our media system loves its show. Talk to your sub and often, not just once in a while when the mood strikes you. Find out what s/he likes and dislikes. Your sub is your own release in the BDSM world. If you constantly do something your sub hates, s/he is going to leave you. End of story. Convey to him/her that you are not a telepath, you don't know what makes them feel good and need to be informed in that regard. Also, define early on how much control your sub wants you to have. You are Dom, yes, and you enjoy being a Dom. But what good is a Dom without a sub to play with?
Lesson 2? Ah, I see from the size of your erection that you enjoy watching me flog my wife's ass. Want to try it? Sure. Just lay down on top of my wife first. That's it. Let her hold your wrists. Let her arch her ass up exposing your own to my flog. You will never, repeat NEVER, lay a harsh hand on her without first knowing what it feels like. This is the way I was trained and the way I train other would-be doms. To weld the lash, you must taste of it first.
Lesson 3? Reward your sub. Yes, discipline is a good thing. But discipline without reward will get you holding a paddle and a full blown erection and no one to take it out on. "The greater you suffer for me, the greater your reward shall be", just ensure you come through on those rewards.
Lesson 4? Safe, Sane and Consensual. Sounds good, but what does it really mean?
Consensual: ALL parties involved are willing participants. If you (meaning #3 who I'm training) EVER 'play' with someone who is unwilling, or continue to 'play' after a safe-word has been uttered, and I hear of it, both my wife and I will hunt you down and remove any body parts that might make you useful to a woman or man. He or she says no, it fucking means no!
Sane: Never strike out in anger. You must be in complete control of your own emotions and your on reality before beginning 'play-time'. No if's, and's or but's. Even if your sub wants it so bad YOU can taste it, if you are not in control of yourself, play another day.
Safe: You've tasted the flog. Hurt when I really got it going, didn't it? Remember that pain. If your sub wants knife play, great! The knife cuts your flesh first. Your sub wants hot wax dripped on her breasts? Fine, get some burn cream, cause your pecs are getting waxed long before you come at your sub with a candle. You see this flog here? It cost around $150. The moment one of the tendrils of leather frays, it goes in the trash. That would break skin and my wife doesn't want that. You only 'damage' you sub in the ways they wish to be 'damaged' and only after you've experienced the pain yourself. If you think it hurt like hell and can't wonder how any one would get off on it, then chances are your sub will too. Then... yup. No more sub.
PV also mentioned toys. Well, as a Dom, I only use the toys that my subs want used on them. My wife likes the paddle and the flog. #2 like the strop. Neither of them like the toys the other likes. It just gives me an excuse to buy more toys. But!!!! #2's toys don't get used on the wife and the wife's toys don't get used on 2. Again, communication.
Personally, I like anything I can get my hands on that will produce the effects that my sub desires. My sub wants pain. I want to give it to them. I give my sub their particular 'flavor' of pain. We're both happy. Next time, their might be something different. And there it is. Next time. I'm not standing around with a 'blue-vien-throbber', a paddle and a ache to use it with no one to use it on.
Toys? Talk it over. If the sub doesn't know, the experiment slowly and un-gagged. In this instance, use the traffic-light colors. Barely tighten that nipple clamp and ask how do you feel? Green... means good, go, ready for more. Yellow... that means slow down some, I'm not sure if I like it or not, I might like it, just not so fast. Red... yeah, that means get that fucking nipple clamp off me, we'll talk about it another time, don't use it again in this session.
In the words of J.R.R. Tolkien, "I fear this thing has gotten bigger than I intended and gained a life of it's own." Wow, I never meant to write a book, but it seems I have. Yes, I could have just said Safe, Sane and consensual and left it at that, but I hope I've at least given a few examples here and there and offered a bit for Phat Vampire's topic.
One last thing before I go. As I stated earlier, BDSM is just one aspect of sex between my wife and I, and the others I mentioned. It adds spice to our sex lives and enhances what is already there. For my wife and I, a 24/7 BDSM life is not for us. We like Vanilla sex to much to give it up. For others, the 24/7 IS for them. That is something you have to find out for yourself. No one else can guide you in it.
If there are any questions for me, please feel free to post them or msg me and I will get back to them. It might take a few days, but I'll get to them.
And rember to have fun, damnit :bigrin: