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View Full Version : Bernie Madoff--where'd the $50 Billion go????



12voltman59
Dec 15, 2008, 11:41 AM
WARNING--I REPEAT WARNING----MAJOR RAMBLE ALERT---PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!!


Ramblin" Part 1:

Holy shit---you almost hate to open the paper, turn on the radio or TV anymore----it just seems that the shit train keeps on dumping it all over the place!!

Now we have word over the weekend that financial bigshot Bernie Madoff--who has run some big money funds and for a time was president of the NASDAQ stock exchange, so the man had a good rep, ran one major financial scam that ripped a load of folks off!!!

He was running a Ponzi scheme and his "victims" include some very prominent people---like a charity of Steven Spielberg, the owners of the New York Mets and Philadephia Eagles pro sports teams, some US Senators, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and a whole host of rich folks from Palm Beach.

I hate to say it--that I somehow get a bit of pleasure from seeing some of the uber elite take it in the ass--at least the pain of the current economic situation is going to be somewhat an equal opportunity deal.

The big problem with it though---it shows that those who run our financial institutions--like FEC Chairman Christopher Cox are either incredibly incompetent or they don't have any problem with their rich cronies being able to raid the treasury and stick it to the rest of us!!!

It really seems that things are really out of whack---and my God---you do have to wonder---what the hell else is next??

Now--there is talking in the financial pages that in other areas of finance that were seemingly OK---they have their own forms of "credit derivative swaps" and such that are going to bring about an entirely new series of financial shocks!!

Well---I don't know when this is all going to end--I am beginning to think--it is all so totally fucked up----sorry for the profanity--that maybe we might as well scuttle our entire financial system and start all over again---if we could be sure the same people that got us in this current predicament aren't in there to get theirs---some people need to go do some serious hard prison time--like Bernie Maddoff.

Rambling' Part 2:

I do hope that the Bush Administration comes through with a bridge loan to keep GM and Chrysler up and running through the down times we are in----I do agree--the management of the auto companies need to change the way they do things---they have been actually in the past few years---and sure--the labor unions need to make concessions--they are too!!

It does piss me off that in the final minutes of the Senate considering the auto bailout plan----a group of Senators held out that the UAW had to take a major pay cut----something they have been doing for years and are going to do in 2010 when the new contracts come into effect--those Senators made the car companies jump through all kinds of hoops--but they didn't demand the same sort of things for the big wigs of Wall Street--they were able to use the money they received as part of their bailout to pay dividends to shareholders and to pay out management bonuses!!!

Do I sniff out a major double standard here???

I know it is a popular sport to talk about how the American car companies have fucked up in many ways--and that they need to reform---that is all true---but right now--the problems they are experiencing is the same thing that every other car manufacturer from every other nation on earth is experiencing---- those companies are recieving "bailouts" from their respective countries!! This current situation has to do with the liquidity crunch---it has nothing to do with the cars that they offer and all that other crap the senators like Richard Shelby of Alabama kept squawking about!!!

I can tell ya folks----if the US car companies fail----especially now in this economy---not only will we see the loss of the direct jobs of those employed by the auto makers---you will see the first, second and third tier suppliers go down as well and that will affect not only the American companies--but the others who make cars in the US as well--and even reach around the world since the auto parts supply system is "vertically integrated" as they say-the interconnectedness of that industry reaches all over the world and it could take down many foreign manufacturers as well.

The direct number of jobs lost will total one out of every 10 jobs in the US and when you take in the multiplier effect of the loss of the auto makers and along the rest of the economy--some estimates put the number of total jobs lost will be as high as 5 or 6 of EVERY JOB IN THE US--that would translate to an unemployment rate of between 10 and 15 percent according to what reports you read!!!

THINK Of That FOLKS!!!! That is not as bad as the unemployement rate the nation experienced in the "Great Depression" of the 20s, 30s and 40s-(it was around 25% then)--but it would be the highest rate we have experienced since then--and while there is no set definition of what is a "depression" as they have for a "recession"--I don't know about you---but an unemployment rate of 10 percent or better sure is not good news. (that number has to do with the way the goverment gathers and reports the unemployment data--it is not exactly a direct number of jobs--more of a statistical compiliation or estimation really.)

I don't care what your job is or where ya live in the US---if the US car companies go down---it will be like that tsunami that sweep through the Indian Ocean area a few years ago----it will wreak havoc of epic proportions--and hardly anyone will emerge unscathed!!!!

Have a Happy New Year--ya'all!!! :bigrin::bigrin:

Cherokee_Mountaincat
Dec 15, 2008, 2:45 PM
Volty? You been at the Cappaccino's again, havent ya baby???? lol
Big hugs Honey
A picking on you Cat:tong:

MaybeSayMaybe
Dec 15, 2008, 3:16 PM
There are indeed strange signals being sent from the halls of power. Whoever is running this country - its not the middle class. The financial oligarchs and their buddies in Congress have soaked up several trillion bucks with little to show for it. And congress plays football with the entire (or what is left) manufacturing sector over an amount of 1-2% of the oligarch bailout. If we throw the auto industry to the wolves at this time, it will go down in history as our own little version of Smoot Hawley.

A depression is not an economic event. It is a sociological event that manifests as an economic event. A depression is what happens when a country cannot or will not operate in a manner that is based upon reality. And here we are trying to fix an acute credit bubble by creating - drum roll - more credit bubbles, and trashing the dollar.

We're walking a tightrope here. If we fall to the left, we get a deflationary depression like the 1930s. If we fall to the right, we get an inflationary depression like the Weimar republic. If we were smart, we'd just get off the tightrope.

_Joe_
Dec 15, 2008, 3:27 PM
Remember kids, "Spreading the Wealth" also means "Spread the Losses".

If you played by the rules, saved like a good little person, and kept within your means.. you are AN IDIOT.

You dont get a bailout. You dont get your mortgage refinanced at a better rate. You do though, get to pay for all that other stuff.

and then some.

12voltman59
Dec 15, 2008, 11:38 PM
Volty? You been at the Cappaccino's again, havent ya baby???? lol
Big hugs Honey
A picking on you Cat:tong:

Actually--I had been watching the morning news shows and reading the papers---and I just had one of those "I am mad as hell and I don't want to take it anymore" moments like the famous scene from that great 1970s movie "Network" !!!!!!!!

Plus---I had just gotten my most recent 401(k) and other money account statements and I get mad when I look at them and see how much they have gone down over the course of the past year!!!!

Where did my money go???

Who the hell took my money??? :bigrin::bigrin:

Of course tracking that down is a fruitless exercise----way too many culprits to even begin to count!

Ohh welll--not so easy come---but very easy to go!!

"If were all weren't crazy---we would go insane"--Jimmy Buffett from "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes"

:bigrin::bigrin::bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

AFTER9
Dec 16, 2008, 8:52 AM
Another one here having one of those "mad as hell" feelings lately. I've always had this feeling that we're in one big casino economic system and in a casino in the end THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS.
What really gets me is two things that have cost me plenty. MY 401 retirement plan and my so called health insurance. I've been steadily employed all my adult life, been wary done my due diligence but nonetheless followed the advice of the salesman disguised as someone providing us benefits my company paraded before us. My 401K now has lost tens of thousands $$ and to boot have paid big time premiums for bascially a stack of medically bills only slightly discounted.
ON the auto industry I'd just like to point out that they do have physical assets besides just fancy office buildings like those being bailed out by wall street. Can some of those be spun off and used to overall their overall position beyond just being shuttered?

HighEnergy
Dec 16, 2008, 9:19 AM
I can see asking the autoworkers to take a pay cut, but where's the request for the folks at the top of the heep to cut back? AIG giving a bonus to their top dogs is insane. How about telling the CEO's of the auto companies that they can cap their salaries to, oh I don't know, just ONE fricking million dollars? It's not like they've made good choices for their companies and deserve a fricking bonus!

I'm beginning to think that there really is prozac in the water, otherwise somebody woulda shot one of them by now.

12voltman59
Dec 16, 2008, 7:00 PM
I have to take back some of the things I said in the OP---I said that it was only the uber rich who took it in the shorts with this crash---but after reading the WSJ, USA TODAY and hearing some reports on NPR and CNBC----there were many folks of rather modest means in relation to some who got stung with this scam along with some uber rich.

Madoff, being Jewish---tended to have Jewish folks as clients---and he basically took many of them for literally every penny they had---I heard of one couple--they lived in the Palm Beach area and of course were not hurting before this but now--but they had invested literally every penny that they had with him---to the tune of several million dollars---and now--they literally have no money of any consequence left---they are having to sell everything they have like their furniture, cars and such just to have some money--and the money they had from a lifetime of work they had planned to pass on to their kids--ALL GONE.

Many Jewish chartiable organizations had invested with him and now--they are out of business!!!

This guy is a real scumbag to have taken so many people----the thing is--with all of the lax controls and hands off attitude of those who are supposed to be regulating the financial markets---how many more Madoffs are there out there???

When is this going to end and how many more people are going to be hurt by such things????

It seems that with the financial world--the foxes were certainly in control of the henhouse--and like foxes--they will eat every bird in the house till there are none left----for a time---they live high off the hog--but that soon brings their demise when the kill off the breeding stock--I wonder if we are seeing our own demise thanks to pure, unmitigated GREED!!???

Unlike that famous line uttered by the Gordon Gecko charcater from the movie "Wall Street"--GREED is NOT A GOOD THING!!!!!

Many people sure as hell operated in the real world as if that is so--I guess we are going through a time of reckoning thanks to such attitudes and behavior based upon that philosophy being held by so many at the top of the food chain!!!

The thing is--I don't know about you--but I am getting sick and tired of shit like this coming out in drips and drabs----it does seem that the system is way fucked up---and sorta like when your tummy starts to hurt when you have a bellly ache and you know that you need to puke to make it better but resist hurling--you do feel better after you get done barfing---well---I say ---lets get everything out of the system that is fucked up so we can puke it up---and get to feeling better and back on the road to recovery!!

Its this wondering about WTF is going to happen next that is the pisser with the current situation!!

MaybeSayMaybe
Dec 16, 2008, 11:02 PM
"This guy is a real scumbag to have taken so many people----the thing is--with all of the lax controls and hands off attitude of those who are supposed to be regulating the financial markets---how many more Madoffs are there out there???"

He may be one of the worst. He was throwing a lot of money around Washington, so a lot of people are tainted and would like to see this thing disappear. He was buying everybody.

"When is this going to end and how many more people are going to be hurt by such things????"

It ain't gonna end well for the middle class. It ain't gonna end well for the poor. It ain't gonna end well for many of the former wealthy.

The real shit storm is yet to come, maybe in 3-4 years. That is when the entire 500 trillion crap pile of derivatives will have to be written off as worthless. The US dollar will become relatively worthless.

So is there there a way out of this mess? Of course. Just have a crystal ball and jump into the right asset classes at the right time. Easier said than done. But at one point hard assets will hold up. Think gold and silver. Think starting a new business. Think manufacturing in the US. There are a lot of changes brewing. So think positive.

Doggiestyle
Dec 17, 2008, 5:47 PM
Well now, whatta ya expect? I mean his name is made-off isn't it? Guess he lived up to his name huh huh huh ? ? ? You would have to suspect somebody named Burn-ie Made-off !!!! It seems that all the movers & shakers of this country (politicans included) are lookin at every "money-well they can find". The so called "middle class" people have, collectively, the bulk of the money in this country simply because there so many of them. But the mgm't & the gov't of this country have gone haywire & it's just free for all stealin anything you can git. It needs to stop or us middle class wont have any class left. there needs to be a few examples made of this bunch. The legal dogs are sayin that they are gonna git to the bottom of this (Obama is the newest) & git the bad guys, But nuthin ever happins & it's same ole shit over & over again. Oh shure they throw some of em into a summer-camp like jail for a few years but look at what they got. MILLIONS & BILLIONS. Hey i'll be willin to go to jail for a few years for a few billion dollars. To me thats pretty good money.

:soapbox:Damm i'me about to git pissed & say somethin revolutionary & git homeland security after me. So I better just shut up.

Thats my :2cents: worth. For whatever it's worth. I am of the opinion that things are gonna go the way things are gonna go, the worlds outta control & there's nuthing we can do about it. :banghead:

....Nuff said for now.....Your friend Doggie :doggie:

softfruit
Dec 24, 2008, 11:19 AM
There is something very Panto season about a financial scandal with a central figure called Mr Madeoff, I agree. Is he any relation of Baron von Hardup?

rainbowmonk
Dec 24, 2008, 12:55 PM
I'm with you volt

I know that we need the freedom to make the choices we do but it does seem that someone fell asleep at the wheel. Where is the people that these people are supposed to answer to? It has effected the rest of the world to so we are also wondering where it stops. I hate to use the word but it almost seems like limited socialism may be just the ticket here at least for the interim. It is all we can do now but to hope and wait.

good luck all and may God bless you with what you need to get by.
:)