LGBT Prison issues

[MarieDelta]

This from the California Senate hearing on LGBT issues in prisons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7dAXYoE7H4

[nocinderella]

After watching Sicko by Micheal Moore last night, its hard to finish watching this. I haven't had the best American pride since 7th grade when i realized how much i wasn't being taught about the world, and how little American teens knew about world geography. did you know that 63% of American teens can't tell you where Great Brittian is on the map? WTF?!?!? and over the past few years as i have become more into learning about the LGBT community and the issues that involve them and the rest of this messed up place, its harder and harder for me to have the American pride i know i probably should have. I have always wondered about Trans-folk in prisons because i have listened to several talk about how they have to deal with IDs and their appearance.. if only (people didn't do the crimes to go to prison) they were placed either with other trans-folk or with the gender they identify as. seriously, i would have thought that common sense.. but what do i know, im not a college grad..grr... (sorry ive heard that arguement, that i don't know anything because im not in the "real-world" yet)

[_Joe_]

After watching Sicko by Micheal Moore last night, its hard to finish watching this. I haven't had the best American pride since 7th grade when i realized how much i wasn't being taught about the world, and how little American teens knew about world geography. did you know that 63% of American teens can't tell you where Great Brittian is on the map? WTF?!?!? and over the past few years as i have become more into learning about the LGBT community and the issues that involve them and the rest of this messed up place, its harder and harder for me to have the American pride i know i probably should have. I have always wondered about Trans-folk in prisons because i have listened to several talk about how they have to deal with IDs and their appearance.. if only (people didn't do the crimes to go to prison) they were placed either with other trans-folk or with the gender they identify as. seriously, i would have thought that common sense.. but what do i know, im not a college grad..grr... (sorry ive heard that arguement, that i don't know anything because im not in the "real-world" yet)


When I met my wife back in 93, I was quite embarassed, and ashamed. She was from Poland (moved over when she was 13), and I didn't know anything about Poland. I didn't know where it was on the map.

Geography was not mandatory in highschool and not even encouraged. It was very enlightening and sad to realize just how little was pushed onto us to know what was outside America.


It's refreshing to know someone like you also feels the same way :)

[FalconAngel]

When I met my wife back in 93, I was quite embarassed, and ashamed. She was from Poland (moved over when she was 13), and I didn't know anything about Poland. I didn't know where it was on the map.

Geography was not mandatory in highschool and not even encouraged. It was very enlightening and sad to realize just how little was pushed onto us to know what was outside America.


It's refreshing to know someone like you also feels the same way :)

I was lucky.

When I went to school, most of my education was spread between the top 2 education systems in the nation at the time (Illinois and Wisconsin). They pushed every subject and I was fortunate to have teachers that actually took education serious enough to make sure that each and every student understood the subject. And people wonder why I like small towns.
Of course, back then teachers were allowed to take measures to maintain order, unlike today, where parents of out of control children sue the school if the teacher tries to maintain control of their classroom.

[curious44]

After watching Sicko by Micheal Moore last night, its hard to finish watching this. I haven't had the best American pride since 7th grade when i realized how much i wasn't being taught about the world, and how little American teens knew about world geography. did you know that 63% of American teens can't tell you where Great Brittian is on the map? WTF?!?!? and over the past few years as i have become more into learning about the LGBT community and the issues that involve them and the rest of this messed up place, its harder and harder for me to have the American pride i know i probably should have. I have always wondered about Trans-folk in prisons because i have listened to several talk about how they have to deal with IDs and their appearance.. if only (people didn't do the crimes to go to prison) they were placed either with other trans-folk or with the gender they identify as. seriously, i would have thought that common sense.. but what do i know, im not a college grad..grr... (sorry ive heard that arguement, that i don't know anything because im not in the "real-world" yet)

First of all, what do you expect from a Micheal Moore flick? This guy earns a very good living running this country down. It's very easy to portray anything you want as evil when you have the power of the media. It's called "spin" and "spin" has been called, "Convincing people it's OK to pick up a turd if you do it from the clean end". I, personally, wouldn't walk across the street to see any of his propaganda films.
You haven't had the best American pride since 7th grade because you feel you haven't been taught enough about the world? AAWWWWWW! That's a typical 19 year old attitude. Blame somebody else. In this case it seems you are blaming the whole country. I know you're a "victim" of this cruel, mean society that has been forced upon you but have you considered looking at our educational system that has U.S. students placing dead last in math and science scores among other developed countries. And if you were all that concerned about it, what have you done about it since the seventh grade? Have you gone to a library and taken out books. Have you spent time in front of your computer screen trying to learn where Great Britain is?
There are problems with our prisons and our justice system, big problems. One of my personal issues is prosecutor abuse. Read Dorothy Rabinowitz's book, "No Crueler Tyrannies", about prosecutors all over the country attempting to further their careers with trumped up child abuse and molestation charges. Several innocent people spent many years in prison and these guys walk away scott-free. Or the recent Duke University "rape" case. Mike Nifong lost his job, big deal! Other than being disgraced what other consequences did he have to deal with? If the Duke students had not come from wealthy families and could afford competent lawyers the case could have had a different outcome. Or the Rolando Cruz case in Illinois, this is one I followed closely. Prosecutors knowingly withheld information that would have been helpful to the defense. Cruz had to depend on a public defender and wound up on death row. When a group of Northwestern law students and one of their professors took up the case it took the judge TWO HOURS to throw the case out and Cruz was eventually released. I know a local prosecutor and his attitude was,"so what, Cruz is a street punk anyway". Excuse me, we don't put people to death for being a street punk.
That being said, most people in prison belong there and I'd rather have them there than crawling through my window while I'm sleeping or harming our grand kids. I, frankly, have better things to fret over than the plight of GLBTs in prison and whether or not they are in the proper cell.
Like Falcon Angel, I also got a good education in Illinois schools. Teachers back then didn't worry if we put our trash in the wrong container, didn't give trophies to the losing team and had other methods than pharmaceuticals for dealing with ADD. Fr. O'Neil was very good at it and never made any of us take a pill. They never got sued for maintaining discipline. We never had an American pride problem because we said the pledge every day and many of us had fathers that were WWII vets and so were many of the teachers. We also never considered ourselves "victims" of some percieved gross social injustice. We even learned where Great Britain was!

[MarieDelta]

Ok look , it may not affect you. Whatever.

Here is what I am trying to say-

First off these are PEOPLE, not garbage. whatever they have done they deserve the right to humane treatment - in fact its gauranteed under the law. Rape, murder, and worse are not punishments that the justice system levies out.

And yes it does matter, where we place these individuals. You cant expect to rehabilitate someone by treating them like crap. that just makes them crazy and mean which places them back into the system.

The rights of prisoners as gauranteed under US law are as follows:


- The right to not be punished cruelly or unusually.


- The right to due processes.


- The right to administrative appeals.


- The right to access the parole process.


- The right to practice religion freely.


- The right to equal protection (fourteenth amendment).


- The right to be notified of all charges against them.


- The right to receive a written statement explaining evidence used in reaching a disposition.


- The right to file a civil suit against another person.


- The right to medical treatment (both long and short term).


(Mental Patients/Prisoners) - The right to treatment that is both adequate and appropriate.


- The right to a hearing upon being relocated to the mental health facility.


- The right to personal property such as: cigarettes, stationary, a watch, cosmetics, and snack-food.


- The right to visitation.


- The right to food that would sustain an average person adequately.


-The right to bathe (for sanitation and health reasons).<br


Now you could argue(in fact I know it has been argued) that Transsexualism is a medical condition that REQUIRES medical treatment. To do oterwise is a form of cruel and inhumane treatment. It is subjecting someone to slow mental torture, that removes all trace of identity.

Several times trans inmates have cut their male members off, or otherwise disfigured themselves to push the system into giving them the treatment that they required. You dont do that if you arent extremely desperate.

So, no, it isnt cosmetic, and no it isnt a choice.

We need to realize that these are people, yes they have commited crimes, and yes they are in the states care. That means WE are responsible for their safety and well being, whether we like it or not.

Johnny Cash always felt that people deserved to be treated better. I tend to agree with him.

As far as our education system goes, it could use improvement, of course. It doesnt mean removing all trace of compassion from people though.

[TaylorMade]

After watching Sicko by Micheal Moore last night, its hard to finish watching this. I haven't had the best American pride since 7th grade when i realized how much i wasn't being taught about the world, and how little American teens knew about world geography. did you know that 63% of American teens can't tell you where Great Brittian is on the map? WTF?!?!? and over the past few years as i have become more into learning about the LGBT community and the issues that involve them and the rest of this messed up place, its harder and harder for me to have the American pride i know i probably should have. I have always wondered about Trans-folk in prisons because i have listened to several talk about how they have to deal with IDs and their appearance.. if only (people didn't do the crimes to go to prison) they were placed either with other trans-folk or with the gender they identify as. seriously, i would have thought that common sense.. but what do i know, im not a college grad..grr... (sorry ive heard that arguement, that i don't know anything because im not in the "real-world" yet)

And there are British teens that think Winston Churchhill was fictional and Sherlock Holmes was real. Lack of education is not just an American problem.

And remember, you said it, I didn't.

*Taylor*

[nocinderella]

And there are British teens that think Winston Churchhill was fictional and Sherlock Holmes was real. Lack of education is not just an American problem.

And remember, you said it, I didn't.

*Taylor*

yes i know that lack of education isn't just an American thing. and yes i do do my own research on countries besides America.. until a few weeks ago my major was INTERNATIONAL STUDIES. i love learning about different cultures, and i have made many friends across the globe and talk to them about their country. the only thing keeping me from the international studies major is my inability to quickly learn languages. which totally blows.
Im sorry if it sounded like i was blaming the American Education System, because in my mind i wasn't. It is sad that much geography is taught, but it saddens me even more that many teens don't care that they aren't learning about other places. but im done trying to explain myself.. if you have any complaints message me personally.. ok?

[TaylorMade]

yes i know that lack of education isn't just an American thing. and yes i do do my own research on countries besides America.. until a few weeks ago my major was INTERNATIONAL STUDIES. i love learning about different cultures, and i have made many friends across the globe and talk to them about their country. the only thing keeping me from the international studies major is my inability to quickly learn languages. which totally blows.
Im sorry if it sounded like i was blaming the American Education System, because in my mind i wasn't. It is sad that much geography is taught, but it saddens me even more that many teens don't care that they aren't learning about other places. but im done trying to explain myself.. if you have any complaints message me personally.. ok?


Just wanted to see where your head was at, that's all.

*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

And there are British teens that think Winston Churchhill was fictional and Sherlock Holmes was real. Lack of education is not just an American problem.

And remember, you said it, I didn't.

*Taylor*

Worse than that Taylor..sum Brit adults think Corrie is reel....:eek:

[nothings5d]

- The right to food that would sustain an average person adequately.

Is this really the way it's worded? This should be "The right to food that would sustain the prisoner adequately." My cousin Esther eats about half again what I do, I'm 6' and weigh 210 and she's 5'9"-ish and weighs somewhere in the range of 80-100; you know women, they'll never tell you their actual weight. And no, she doesn't have any kind of eating disorder or anything it's just that her metabolism is that high. The amount of food required to adequately sustain me would be so little for her that she would start to lose weight. And with her already so low of weight she's on the verge of underweight as it is. The way that is worded bothers me. Anything that has to do with health issues, whether physical or mental, needs to be tailored to the person receiving it. Having everything done on averages is worrisome. It'd be like saying that since the average persons average temperature is 98.6 that everyone needs to maintain a constant 98.6. So does that mean that they should induce a low level fever in me to get my temp up a degree and a half?

Sorry for the rant-ish-ness, but the way that was phrased just bothers me.

[darkeyes]

That being said, most people in prison belong there and I'd rather have them there than crawling through my window while I'm sleeping or harming our grand kids. I, frankly, have better things to fret over than the plight of GLBTs in prison and whether or not they are in the proper cell.
Ya think linkin those 2 sentences as ya hav wos smart move hun??Kinda plays inta the hands a the enemy dontcha think?

Marie is rite tho..every 1..jailbird or law abidin citizen is entitled 2 dignity..prisoners hav been denied their liberty..not, least not in theory or in law ther humanity... treat peeps like shite an they will kik rite bak atya in kind.. brutalise peeps as the prison systems a the US an the UK do..an ya don benefit society an certainly not the prisoner.. the idea is 2 prevent recidivism an the prisoner 2 reform.. ya don do that but treatin peeps as scum.. wetha jailbird or poor or illegal immigrant..legal immigrant for that matta.. an by drivin a wedge tween human beins..an so givin em a grudge gainst the rest of us..

Prisoners wetha they str8 gay bi or Transexual shud all b treated wiv humanity..we shud b concerned bout em cos they..poor specimens or no for woteva reason.. r still human beins.. an we shud b tryin 2 improve ther lot for wen they r released..an try an reduce the recidivism wich is all 2 rife... 2 do that we havta give em hope a better things..ya don do it by havin em slop out..or live in overcrowded cells in sumtimes awful conditions a hygeine..

Transexuals r a case wich shud b considered specially urgently..cos they r sent 2 a prison for peeps of ther birth gender..is that appropriate?? They r a case like no otha because a the particular circumstances a ther gender transition.. Ther is an argument... mayb.. for those who hav not completed transition 2 b so imprisoned..more so for those at the very beginnin of ther treatment..but for those who hav completed the journey?? Sendin them 2 an institution for peeps of ther birth gender hasta b hghly innappropriate for reasons wich r so blatantly obvious even dinosaurs can recognise em...