my man is in jail..

[ayoungmom20]

and we want a baby really really bad. he was thinking about trying to sneak some cum to me at vistation in a bag. how can i get pregnate with his baby if he does that.

ANY AND ALL IDEAS ARE MORE THAN WELCOME

[guycurious]

May I suggest you wait until he is out of jail before making such a big, life altering decision such as having a baby ? You are 20 years old. I'm going to assume you have at least a high school diploma. In case you haven't noticed we are in a RECESSION which means job prospects are slim.

So, you are considering becoming pregnant AND supporting the baby by yourself while the father is in jail ? Did you have a financial plan in place to support the two of you ? Do you have a job that you cannot be fired from ? Maybe you have a ton of money you are planning to live off of ?

Who will take care of the baby while you are at work ? I'm assuming you are employed. Put your libido in check, wait unitl you are emotionally, mentally and financially prepared for a child and be sure the father of this child is prepared in the same manner.

[jamieknyc]

and we want a baby really really bad. he was thinking about trying to sneak some cum to me at vistation in a bag. how can i get pregnate with his baby if he does that.

ANY AND ALL IDEAS ARE MORE THAN WELCOME

WARNING!!!!! As a lawyer, I have to tell you that what you are suggesting is highly illegal and will get you arrested and him placed into punishment, as well as preventing you from having further visitation. If you want to have a baby, try to do it through legal channels.

[bigulfcpl]

and we want a baby really really bad. he was thinking about trying to sneak some cum to me at vistation in a bag. how can i get pregnate with his baby if he does that.

ANY AND ALL IDEAS ARE MORE THAN WELCOME

Why would you even consider this? Why is he in jail, and for how long? Like Jamie said, you can get in a lot of trouble. Why would you not wait?

[_Joe_]

and we want a baby really really bad. he was thinking about trying to sneak some cum to me at vistation in a bag. how can i get pregnate with his baby if he does that.

ANY AND ALL IDEAS ARE MORE THAN WELCOME

I find this wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start.

[12voltman59]

I find this wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start.


I agree 100% Joe----

To youngmom--the reality is---you can't get pregnant from sperm that has been only kept in a bag without all kinds of special ways of handling it---I won't go into the techncial aspects of that--but as someone noted----if you got caught with a bag of sperm received from your husband-it is CONTRABAN MATERIAL--I am sure that you would run afoul of some law regarding smuggling of materials of any kind in and out of a jail or prison--in most places--a very serious offense that both the law enforcement agency involved and the prosecutor's take very, very seriously no matter what the substance is---YOU could go to jail or prison for a significant period of time---DON'T EVEN TRY IT!!

For the sake of arguement---- say that you could get pregnant from using his sperm saved like that--why would you want to get pregnant when you "man" is in prison and can't contribute anything to the very heavy financial aspects of raising a chld????---especially now that the economy looks to be going to be far worse before it gets better---it is tough enough to have a kid in the best of times and circumstances---with the economy and your hubby in the big house--this is no time to even think about having a kid for you guys!!!!

Enough said I think--I would not otherwise say anything--but you did ask for our opinions on this "plan."

[_Joe_]

I applaud you on starting, and only touching like a fraction of the whole kitncaboodle of whats wrong with it.

[wss30152]

I dont think it will work, but i am willing to come to you and make some deposits...

[goddessmama]

Honey, I've had four kids and trust me I know all about having kids with worthless (sorry guys) Daddys. Sometimes they seem all right at first and then later on you find out that they are not able to maintain good father status. Your man is unable to maintain good man status -HE IS IN JAIL!!!!- hello in 10 years do you want to tell jr. how you made him one night in the parking lot of the county jail with a baggie of cold cum and a turkey baster? Seriously listen to your own thought process for a minute. Please don't try to get pregnant by this schmuck he isn't even doing a good job at seeming like he MIGHT be a good daddy, he is all ready a worthless daddy and you aren't pregnant yet. Run away. Run away fast! If you need something snuggly, buy a dog. You do not need a baby with this guy to keep him because trust me YOU DON"T WANT HIM, sure he wants you pregnant because he figures he doesn't deserve you, and he hopes that while he's spending his nights in jail, or getting himself put in jail you'll sit quietly at home being pregnant or changing diapers waiting for him....he's worthless, he knows it, you just haven't figured it out yet. Look up CO-DEPENDANT on the internet, see if you can find a picture of yourself. ....seriously, I'm not trying to be a bitch, but you need to think about yourself and the babies you might have with someone else, or hell even on your own, you'd be better off than with some guy who is willing to let you try to do it all on your own while he sits in jail. Seriously does he really care about you or a potential baby? NO!

[FalconAngel]

Okay, I will admit that this is the influence of some of my police friends and my former life in the military talking here, but here goes;

You are actually considering letting this loser breed with you? Think of the children.

People are in jail for a reason and there is less than 1/10th of 1% that are actually innocent men, wrongfully convicted, that are doing serious time.

Sorry, honey, but your "man" is in jail because he is not capable of handling the realities of being a responsible adult. He is, in some way or another, genetically deficient and should not breed at all.

Do not have a child with that person. I can't call him a man, because real men don't do things that would land them in jail on a conviction of any kind.

But don't take my word for it.....do a "ride along" with your local Police department and see what it is that they deal with on a daily basis. Maybe then you will understand your supposed "man" a bit better than you do now.

Remember that he is in jail for a reason.

[izzfan]

As many of the other posts have said, it's really not worth the risk (liklihood of being caught smuggling stuff out of prison and the fact that sperm has to be preserved in certain conditions).

If your man is in jail for a relatively short sentence then it is probably best to wait until he gets out before you get pregnant. I do not know the full circumstances of the situation so I can't really comment about whether this man may make a good father.




You are actually considering letting this loser breed with you? Think of the children.

People are in jail for a reason and there is less than 1/10th of 1% that are actually innocent men, wrongfully convicted, that are doing serious time.

Sorry, honey, but your "man" is in jail because he is not capable of handling the realities of being a responsible adult. He is, in some way or another, genetically deficient and should not breed at all.

Genetically deficient? I think this is being a bit harsh, for all we know the man might be one of the innocent >0.01% of people in prison or he might be in prison for a non-violent offence (maybe a financial/tax offence, a minor motoring offence or something like that). To lump all criminals together as being "genetically deficient" and implicitly suggesting some form of eugenics sounds a bit too right-wing.

Also, although this almost definately doesn't apply to the situation in this discussion, I would say that there are some intelligent, responsible people who have broken the law in order to challenge injustice- Eg: Nelson Mandela, John Scopes (first teacher in the US to be prosecuted for teaching evolution), Rosa Parks etc... Technically all these people were/are "criminals" (in the sense that they had broken a law) but would you consider them to be "deficient" in any way? I certainly wouldn't.

Also, I think upbringing, personality etc.. have more to do with whether someone is a criminal rather than genetics.

Sorry about the rant but I think your arguments were a bit harsh. :soapbox:

[FalconAngel]

Genetically deficient? I think this is being a bit harsh, for all we know the man might be one of the innocent >0.01% of people in prison or he might be in prison for a non-violent offence (maybe a financial/tax offence, a minor motoring offence or something like that). To lump all criminals together as being "genetically deficient" and implicitly suggesting some form of eugenics sounds a bit too right-wing.

Also, although this almost definately doesn't apply to the situation in this discussion, I would say that there are some intelligent, responsible people who have broken the law in order to challenge injustice- Eg: Nelson Mandela, John Scopes (first teacher in the US to be prosecuted for teaching evolution), Rosa Parks etc... Technically all these people were/are "criminals" (in the sense that they had broken a law) but would you consider them to be "deficient" in any way? I certainly wouldn't.

Those exceptions to the rule no longer apply in the US.

If this guy is anywhere near the same age as his girlfriend, he hasn't been around long enough to raise the ire of the IRS, minor traffic infractions get fines, not jail sentences. Neither DUI's nor drug offenses are minor in my book. And I would wager that at least 10 people on this site hold that opinion for the same reasons that I do; they know/knew someone who's life was either ruined or taken because of a DUI driver or drug abuser.

The likelihood that he is one of those 1/10th of 1% is pretty small when you take into consideration the size of the prison population nationwide. Let's put it this way; if you were in an accident, would you want a 1/10th of 1% chance of survival? I won't risk those odds and I don't know too many that would be foolish enough to risk it either. How about you?
Add to that, the fact that our courts give some pretty light sentences for some really bad things and you can see why I say what I say. Whatever it is that he's in for, he will be released on probation in 1/3 of his sentence time, if he behaves himself.

And let's not forget that almost half of the guys in prisons, that are repeat offenders, do it because prison is the only life that they know. They can't even dream of making it on the outside. And there is plenty of scientific research that shows that the vast majority of guys in prison (discounting political prisoners in countries that have them) are, quite factually, genetically deficient when compared to the general human population.

But we also have to take into account the fact that he doesn't have the common sense to suggest waiting til he gets out and on his feet before getting this young girl pregnant.

Not exactly a display of intelligence on either of their parts. Since he is willing to do it, how smart is that? I give him an 88 on the IQ scale for it.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for stupidity when criminals are involved. They are the lowest of breeds and have little intention of becoming better. Like I told ayoungmom20, take a "ride along" with the local Police and see if you hold the same opinion of guys in jail.

I could give you a few stories from the police that I know, and many of those same officers could tell you about hundreds of cases that demonstrate what I said.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Oh good grief! You honestly mean to tell me that you'd be willing to run the risk of a mentally challenged child because you had his sperm transported in a zip lock baggie!???
You are missing the bigger picture here, Girlfriend. If he is in jail now for obviously doing something stupid, then how are you going to be able to ever trust him to be there and take care of you And a new life????
You best start looking at some priorities Sugar. Or you are going to wind up making some Serious life changing mistakes...
Cat:(

[canuckotter]

I could give you a few stories from the police that I know, and many of those same officers could tell you about hundreds of cases that demonstrate what I said.

And I could offer you a few stories from the other side. I know a few people who've been arrested (luckily never convicted) who've gone on to lead healthy, productive adult lives. I know one dude who was actually convicted (of a fairly minor offense, admittedly, but he still came a hair's breadth away from being tossed in jail for six months)... I met him when he was finishing up his probation and working a full-time job while paying his way through school. I also know a few people who probably should have been thrown in jail a few times, but got lucky and got away with it... and again, living healthy, productive adult lives.

Kids make mistakes. Then they learn from them, most of the time. Unless, of course, you set up a super-harsh penal system that leaves them with no non-criminal choice after they serve time...

Anyway. Back to the original post: Honey, no. Just no. I'm not going to condemn "your man" just because he's in jail, but for crying out loud, he's in jail. How's he going to help you through the birthing process? How's he going to help handle the kid? How's he going to raise money to pay for food, diapers, etc? Just... no. Besides, as has been pointed out, there's pretty lousy odds that the sperm would be viable.

[curious44]

Once again, Falcon Angel gets it right on target.

[curious married m]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't ayoungmom20 say she already has one son. I have to agree with the rest of the group, why would anyone at such a young age want MORE kids. Your toddler is from my guess near 2-3 yrs old and THAT is a fulltime job without an infant to add to the stresses. Having a child is a beautiful thing, but they are lifetime commitment. Like others said, if your hubby's stay in jail is a short one of less than 5 years, you will have plenty of time to make a baby. But even then, he needs to get on his feet and start a career that can support 2 kids. Anyway, just my :2cents:

[darkeyes]

As peeps who kno me in the slitest r aware me dusn share the common perception a many that those incarcerated wivvin the prison system r all scum an animals an shud b deprived of all human dignities...that they r guilty as sin an hav no hope a redemption or rehabilitation..in many ways this is of course the reality cos in the US an the UK the prison systems r neitha geared for or intended for these purposes woteva the authorities tell us..they r intended as dehumanisin, punitive institutions cos that involves in part the easiest way out for society an helps satisfy its lust for vengeance.. Nor dus me accept that 0.01% of those in clink r innocent..that figure reflects not even the tip a the iceberg a those incarcerated for crimes or offences wich they did not commit.. even if that figure was taken as those who r later aquitted on appeal or those found 2 hav been innocent an given free pardons (stupid expression..assumes they did summat..) an released wivout a stain on ther character, ther will b an r many more who will neva receive this justice.. am not sayin that most do not deserve 2 b ther.. cos the likelihood is they do.. do say they r not scum an animals..they r human beins who for 1 reason or otha hav fallen foul a society's rules an r payin for it.. they mite well b nasty sods, wot many wud call evil an who many don give a toss bout woteva happens 2 em..but ther r a million an 1 reasons wy human beins turn 2 crime, an not all r 2 do wiv them bein simply bad bastards.. many r 2 do wiv society an its flaws an its inability 2 satisfy the needs an aspirations a its people.. often as simple needs as bein able 2 eat, b housed or find work..

Dunno the circumstances a young mums man... but that shudn matta..woteva 'e has dun (or mayb who knos, didn do) 'e is payin for it..an so is she.. mayb we can argue bout 'is sentence, but if guilty not the rightness a punishment..but wiv punishment shud cum reel attempts at rehabilitation.. 1 a those shud b conjugal visits (practiced in some countries round the world).. but most of all shud b a determination by society 2 allow a human bein 2 retain 'is or 'er dignity, an re-enter society wiv summat 2 look forward 2..like the prospects of a decent life for them an ther dependants..

..but no....carry out dollops a sperm in a lil bag is daft..in fact stupid.. it prob wudn work cos a the difficulty a keepin the stuff alive...not cos it wos likely 2 turn out idiot children... its a risk neitha a yas wonts 2 take..an those that warn a difficulties ahead even if it worked...they r rite..ya don wanna raise a kid onya own..its hard enuff if ya hav the resources 2 do it an ther r 2 ofya as parents..but 2 all intents an purposes onya own an strugglin 2 make ends meet? Jus seems daft 2 me...an not a lil irresponsible.. howeva desperate ya r an howeva much ya luff ya man... drop the idea hun an work 2 make a decent life for yasel..if an wen ya hubbie gets outa clink, an mayb yas made the conditions rite at 'ome 2 help 'im get bak inta society an live a decent life togetha..then hav kids...conceivin a child the nice way (did me reely say that??? tee hee).. an raise 'em 2 b healthy happy an wiv reel prospects.. if 'e is in a long time..then suggest ya drop the idea.. stand by ya man sure if ya luff 'im that much..but don do summat irrational wich will heap loadsa crap on ya head for years 2 cum an make things harder for ya than they otherwise need b... an potentially make things hard for ne child wich ya may concieve by wot seems 2 me 2 b a tadge hairbrained sceme born outa desperation..

[curious44]

Something doesn't jive here. In her profile and previous posts as recent as 11-20 youngmom makes reference to a husband who is on call 24/7 so I assume he is employed. Did he go to jail within the last 10 days? Why is she now referring to "my man", not "my husband" in this thread. Are there two guys or is all this the figment of some one's imagination?

[rissababynta]

I find this wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start.

took the words right out of my mouth...haha

[rissababynta]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't ayoungmom20 say she already has one son. I have to agree with the rest of the group, why would anyone at such a young age want MORE kids. Your toddler is from my guess near 2-3 yrs old and THAT is a fulltime job without an infant to add to the stresses. Having a child is a beautiful thing, but they are lifetime commitment.

ok...i am 22 and have a son who is almost 3 and a half, a daughter who will be 2 in a few weeks, and another daughter who just turned 2 months...i totally agree with you! lol.

[izzfan]

Those exceptions to the rule no longer apply in the US.

If this guy is anywhere near the same age as his girlfriend, he hasn't been around long enough to raise the ire of the IRS, minor traffic infractions get fines, not jail sentences. Neither DUI's nor drug offenses are minor in my book. And I would wager that at least 10 people on this site hold that opinion for the same reasons that I do; they know/knew someone who's life was either ruined or taken because of a DUI driver or drug abuser.

The likelihood that he is one of those 1/10th of 1% is pretty small when you take into consideration the size of the prison population nationwide. Let's put it this way; if you were in an accident, would you want a 1/10th of 1% chance of survival? I won't risk those odds and I don't know too many that would be foolish enough to risk it either. How about you?
Add to that, the fact that our courts give some pretty light sentences for some really bad things and you can see why I say what I say. Whatever it is that he's in for, he will be released on probation in 1/3 of his sentence time, if he behaves himself.

And let's not forget that almost half of the guys in prisons, that are repeat offenders, do it because prison is the only life that they know. They can't even dream of making it on the outside. And there is plenty of scientific research that shows that the vast majority of guys in prison (discounting political prisoners in countries that have them) are, quite factually, genetically deficient when compared to the general human population.

But we also have to take into account the fact that he doesn't have the common sense to suggest waiting til he gets out and on his feet before getting this young girl pregnant.

Not exactly a display of intelligence on either of their parts. Since he is willing to do it, how smart is that? I give him an 88 on the IQ scale for it.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for stupidity when criminals are involved. They are the lowest of breeds and have little intention of becoming better. Like I told ayoungmom20, take a "ride along" with the local Police and see if you hold the same opinion of guys in jail.

I could give you a few stories from the police that I know, and many of those same officers could tell you about hundreds of cases that demonstrate what I said.


As for your point, the laws I was referring to in my post (when I was referring to Nelson Mandela etc..) thankfully no longer exist but if it wasn't for the brave souls who broke them then they would still exist. So I would argue that in some circumstances, breaking the law can be a good thing.

Nevertheless, unjust laws still exist - for example, since 1994, consensual S&M activity between adults is theoretically a criminal offence in the UK. Also, protesting within a mile of parliament without official permission is also illegal. The current UK government has introduced at least 3000 pieces of new legislation since they came to power in 1997, at least half of it is unjust, trivial, authoritarian etc....

DUI is certainly a serious offence but I wouldn't consider all drug related offences to be serious - some certainly are very serious (eg;drug dealing, using hard drugs) and the police should certainly focus on these.

However other "drug offences" are so trivial (eg; using/posessing marijuana) that it beggars belief that police even waste their time with arresting people for this victimless crime. Listen to a song called "the irony of it all" by the Streets (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gwDRBm-qbQI), it humerously points out the vast difference in harm (to society, to other people, to yourself etc..) caused by alcohol in comparison to marijuana.

If I was in an accident would I want a 0.01% chance of survival ? If it was better than no chance at all, then possibly. However, I very much doubt that only 0.01% of criminals in prison are innocent - where did you get this statistic?

Yes, there are certainly habitual criminals and I would probably agree that the majority of criminals are not the most intelligent people in the world but that doesn't mean that we should throw away the key. Surely one of the aims of a good penal system is to educate and reform criminals.

I would have to agree with you that it is probably sensible for ayoungmom20 to wait until her man gets out of prison before they decide to have a baby.

Don't think that I am belittling the work of the police, one of my martial arts instructors (when I was younger) was a policeman and he told us a few stories about how he had to use his self-defence skills in the course of his job [unlike the US, most UK police are often armed with nothing more than a baton and sometimes CS spray/taser] along with a number of other stories about arrests he'd made and I would have to agree that most violent/ habitual criminals certainly are bastards. The police certainly have a very difficult job and I respect them for doing it. As for going for a "ride along" with the police, my instructor did suggest this once but I was a bit too nervous about it at the time - I guess it could be interesting/educational and I kind of regret passing up his offer.

The one thing I do find annoying though is when employers instantly write people off/ refuse to hire them if they have a criminal conviction/record - how are they supposed to reform and become productive members of society if no-one will give them a legitimate job. However, sometimes preventing people from getting jobs due to criminal records is certainly justified, (eg: preventing sex offenders working in schools) .

[csrakate]

Before we waste any more energy or concern over this "situation", I would like to remind you that the OP has already posted several times in a very short period of time about a variety of subjects ranging from her sexuality to ways to spice up her sex life with her husband with whom she has already had a child. And don't forget that she also requested that we start some threads that were more "interesting" in subject matter. SO....unless this "man" is someone else other than this husband that she claims to love so very much, I wouldn't give this supposed desire to be inseminated by her jailed "man" much concern. Somehow I feel we are all being duped.

[_Joe_]

Ah good to know Kate.

Let's all bugger off then and talk about how Bed Bug bites are really the male bed bug trying to have sex with you since his eyesight is horrible in finding females.

[csrakate]

Ah good to know Kate.

Let's all bugger off then and talk about how Bed Bug bites are really the male bed bug trying to have sex with you since his eyesight is horrible in finding females.
LOL Joe! You are a veritable font of knowledge when it comes to the habits of bugs, fish and other creatures!! Keep those fun facts to know and share coming!! LOL!

[_Joe_]

OK! here's one about SPIDERS! Everyones cuddlebug.


4. Promiscuity is widespread amongst spiders, and the question is: if your girl cheats on you, would you break off your penis to impede her? Spiders do it, in the so-called sex war and sperm competition.

In the wasp spiders, the males simply place a chastity belt on their partner while copulating: the tip of their genital breaks off during sexual contact, plugging the sexual orifice of the female. The male wasp spider is much smaller than the female, and after starting the intercourse, few seconds later the female attacks her partner, and if it does not manage a quick escape, it will die. In fact, this is common amongst spiders: the (sometimes much) larger female eats the male. (In order not to fall victims to their sweeties, in many species, the males deliver to their partners a large fly, which will keep them occupied).

[FalconAngel]

And I could offer you a few stories from the other side. I know a few people who've been arrested (luckily never convicted) who've gone on to lead healthy, productive adult lives. I know one dude who was actually convicted (of a fairly minor offense, admittedly, but he still came a hair's breadth away from being tossed in jail for six months)... I met him when he was finishing up his probation and working a full-time job while paying his way through school. I also know a few people who probably should have been thrown in jail a few times, but got lucky and got away with it... and again, living healthy, productive adult lives.

Kids make mistakes. Then they learn from them, most of the time. Unless, of course, you set up a super-harsh penal system that leaves them with no non-criminal choice after they serve time...

Anyway. Back to the original post: Honey, no. Just no. I'm not going to condemn "your man" just because he's in jail, but for crying out loud, he's in jail. How's he going to help you through the birthing process? How's he going to help handle the kid? How's he going to raise money to pay for food, diapers, etc? Just... no. Besides, as has been pointed out, there's pretty lousy odds that the sperm would be viable.

Fair enough, but am I right is assuming that the stories that you know are all in Canada, or are they here in the US?

Canada has different laws and the Canadian court system operates a little bit differently than the US court and legal system operates. With that knowledge in mind, consider who's court system we are talking about. JamieK is a lawyer, so he would know about our system even better than the rest of us.

tell you what, for all of the folks making assumptions about our legal system, but are not in the US; I will not make blind assumptions about your courts, one way or the other, if you give me the same courtesy.

Everyone that has had no issue with the idea that ayoungmom20's guy is in jail lives outside of the US and is not nearly as familiar with the legal system here in the US as are those of us who live in the US.

Remember that every county has a different system from the other countries in the world and I know about the one in the country that I live and grew up in; no one else's. Everyone who lives in and grew up in other countries knows their system better than ours.

[FalconAngel]

As for your point, the laws I was referring to in my post (when I was referring to Nelson Mandela etc..) thankfully no longer exist but if it wasn't for the brave souls who broke them then they would still exist. So I would argue that in some circumstances, breaking the law can be a good thing.

Nevertheless, unjust laws still exist - for example, since 1994, consensual S&M activity between adults is theoretically a criminal offence in the UK. Also, protesting within a mile of parliament without official permission is also illegal. The current UK government has introduced at least 3000 pieces of new legislation since they came to power in 1997, at least half of it is unjust, trivial, authoritarian etc....

DUI is certainly a serious offence but I wouldn't consider all drug related offences to be serious - some certainly are very serious (eg;drug dealing, using hard drugs) and the police should certainly focus on these.

However other "drug offences" are so trivial (eg; using/posessing marijuana) that it beggars belief that police even waste their time with arresting people for this victimless crime. Listen to a song called "the irony of it all" by the Streets (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gwDRBm-qbQI), it humerously points out the vast difference in harm (to society, to other people, to yourself etc..) caused by alcohol in comparison to marijuana.

If I was in an accident would I want a 0.01% chance of survival ? If it was better than no chance at all, then possibly. However, I very much doubt that only 0.01% of criminals in prison are innocent - where did you get this statistic?

Yes, there are certainly habitual criminals and I would probably agree that the majority of criminals are not the most intelligent people in the world but that doesn't mean that we should throw away the key. Surely one of the aims of a good penal system is to educate and reform criminals.

I would have to agree with you that it is probably sensible for ayoungmom20 to wait until her man gets out of prison before they decide to have a baby.

Don't think that I am belittling the work of the police, one of my martial arts instructors (when I was younger) was a policeman and he told us a few stories about how he had to use his self-defence skills in the course of his job [unlike the US, most UK police are often armed with nothing more than a baton and sometimes CS spray/taser] along with a number of other stories about arrests he'd made and I would have to agree that most violent/ habitual criminals certainly are bastards. The police certainly have a very difficult job and I respect them for doing it. As for going for a "ride along" with the police, my instructor did suggest this once but I was a bit too nervous about it at the time - I guess it could be interesting/educational and I kind of regret passing up his offer.

The one thing I do find annoying though is when employers instantly write people off/ refuse to hire them if they have a criminal conviction/record - how are they supposed to reform and become productive members of society if no-one will give them a legitimate job. However, sometimes preventing people from getting jobs due to criminal records is certainly justified, (eg: preventing sex offenders working in schools) .

Everythig that you are talking about and how the law handles it are outside of the US and do not apply to the US laegal system. You are trying to argue apples and oranges.

How about we don't compare laws in other countries to the US, at least not in this case. The guy is in an American jail, therefore US law applies.

I am more familiar with US legal systems than you are, no doubt as you are more familiar with laws from your homeland than I am.

For the point of this thread, we are dealing with the laws and legal system in the US, not anywhere else. So really, your comparisons are pretty pointless, except to try to redirect from the fact that the guy in question is a loser. The consensus is pretty unanimous in that he is.

And the .01 number I get from the US government. Those statistics only apply to prisons in the US.

The drug issue is another story; I had friends that died because they got a ride with a guy that was buzzed on grass. Maybe you consider that minor, I do not. Loss of life because of drug or alcohol abuse is never minor and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. If you think that they are too tough on drug abusers, then demonstrate to the government that there is no correlation between substance abuse and fatalities on the road, theft, murder and other crimes that have already been demonstrated to be connected to substance abusers.

Take a ride along with the local police before you make too many assumptions about criminals. They are in jail for a reason.....at least in the US, they are.

[darkeyes]

How about we don't compare laws in other countries to the US, at leas in this case. The guy is in an American jail, therefore US law applies.

I am more familiar with US legal systems than you are, no doubt as you are more familiar with laws from your homeland than I am.

For the point of this thread, we are dealing with the laws and legal system in the US, not anywhere else. So really, your comparisons are pretty pointless, except to try to redirect from the fact that the guy in question is a loser. The consensus is pretty unanimous in that.

And the .01 number I get from the US government. The statistics only apply to prisons in the US.
Not quite sure wot point yas tryin 2 make 'ere Falcie me luffly... course u kno ya own legal system betta than ne of us from outside the US but wot r ya tryin 2 say?? That its brill? That its fair?? That its unlike ne otha? The best ther is or wot?? Every system has its faults..God knos it dus ere..

Is 'e a loser?? She didn say wy 'e wos in jail..so we jus dunno...'e mite jus b 1 a ya .01%..

[not_ur_typical_girl]

Okay, I will admit that this is the influence of some of my police friends and my former life in the military talking here, but here goes;

You are actually considering letting this loser breed with you? Think of the children.

People are in jail for a reason and there is less than 1/10th of 1% that are actually innocent men, wrongfully convicted, that are doing serious time.

Sorry, honey, but your "man" is in jail because he is not capable of handling the realities of being a responsible adult. He is, in some way or another, genetically deficient and should not breed at all.

Do not have a child with that person. I can't call him a man, because real men don't do things that would land them in jail on a conviction of any kind.

But don't take my word for it.....do a "ride along" with your local Police department and see what it is that they deal with on a daily basis. Maybe then you will understand your supposed "man" a bit better than you do now.

Remember that he is in jail for a reason.

Okay I was gonna stay quite about this but its just been picking at me for a few days. I am not genetically deficient and I have been to jail. I MADE A MISTAKE. Oh my God now you must lock me up and throw away the key. I got an OWI in January of 08 and I knew it was wrong, but at the moment in time I was so drunk that I did not care. Does that make me a bad person I dont think so. I am a productive member of society that can hold down a full time job and a part time job. I pay my taxes, vote, and support the troops. I am a wonderful aunt to my 2 nephews and 2 neices, and hope some day to be a wonderful mom to my kids. Yes I made a mistake but that does not make me a bad person. Are you saying that you're perfect and never do anything that you are ashamed of?

And the drug thing...Most people that get drug offenses are addicts and that is a DISEASE! it does not make them any worse of a person than you. They have a disease, like cancer. Is someone with cancer a bad person? I dont think so. An addicting is a disease that requires treatment. THEY ARE NOT BAD PEOPLE! THEY ARE NOT GENETICALLY DEFICIENT! They are people that need some help.

[Bopit4Ever]

and we want a baby really really bad. he was thinking about trying to sneak some cum to me at vistation in a bag. how can i get pregnate with his baby if he does that.

ANY AND ALL IDEAS ARE MORE THAN WELCOME

and I always wondered if those guests on Springer were legit.. :bigrin:

[Atopalonelystar]

Everyone else here is trying their best (at least it appears that way to me) to be polite. However, I'm not known for my politeness.. SO, I'll just lay it out for you!

Why in the hell would you want to be with someone who is in jail; let alone have his baby?? Didn't your mother teach you bad is bad no matter how you look at it?? Where the hell is your brain?? HELLO??? A child needs both parents to be LEVEL headed... Not a lowlife career-criminal dead-beat dad who spends the majority of his time in jail and a mother not smart enough to run like hell to save herself the trouble of what that will bring!

I'm guessing that intelligence isn't a factor here solely based on your post and it's probably safe to assume we should expect to see you on the Maury show within the next year or so.

[_Joe_]

Atop....for shame.

I have slept on it, and thought you know what, if you are serious and focused on this then there is nothing we can say or do to change your mind.

So, here is Joe's Radical way of doing what you want to do.

First, you are going at this all wrong. You want to take OUT when you should TAKE IN. Think about in the past on the movies, the way things get in the prison is smuggling it inside of things, and in this case, let's look at cake. Everyone knows the cliche, that the cake has inside... a File. Well, thanks to metal detectors and file sniffing dogs, that won't fly.

But you know what else is in cake ?

Eggs.

Following me ?

You need to take out your eggs and put them in the cake!

Once your man has the cake back in his cell, he needs to follow what we saw in the other movie American Pie and have sex with said cake. This will fertilize the eggs.

Then, like that movie where Arnold Schwartacantspellhisname gets Pregnant, your man will have to put the cake inside him. Don't eat the cake - stomach acids will kill the living egg and sperm. He needs to somehow get it into his belly. not his butt either, that's like a U turn for them. I suggest he funnels it into his Navel or something.

There you go.

[izzfan]

For the point of this thread, we are dealing with the laws and legal system in the US, not anywhere else. So really, your comparisons are pretty pointless, except to try to redirect from the fact that the guy in question is a loser. The consensus is pretty unanimous in that he is.

And the .01 number I get from the US government. Those statistics only apply to prisons in the US.

The drug issue is another story; I had friends that died because they got a ride with a guy that was buzzed on grass. Maybe you consider that minor, I do not. Loss of life because of drug or alcohol abuse is never minor and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. If you think that they are too tough on drug abusers, then demonstrate to the government that there is no correlation between substance abuse and fatalities on the road, theft, murder and other crimes that have already been demonstrated to be connected to substance abusers.

All I was pointing out was that the fact that this guy ended up in prison doesn't necessarily mean that he is "deficient" in any way or a loser. Chances are, he probably is a loser, but I don't think we should jump to conclusions before we know the full facts.

As for the whole drug-driving thing, as I said in my previous post, I view driving under the influence as a very serious crime (and, by extention, driving under the influence of drugs) and I am sorry to hear that you have been affected by this.

What I was referring to when I said that weed was not a serious criminal matter was not in the context of people driving under the influence of it but people sitting around, getting stoned and causing no harm to anyone.

As for hard drugs (eg: crack, PCP, heroin etc..) I would agree that a lot of crime is caused because of them (eg: people stealing to fund drug habits etc..) and the law needs to focus on these drugs.

As for your points about US law, you seemed to be talking about criminals in general and crime is an issue that affects every country. As such, I thought that I would give my :2cents: on the matter.

Chances are, we're probably not going to agree on everything and I can see how your experiences have shaped your views on the issues in this thread. Maybe I am just being naive and idealistic about the whole issue of crime.

[12voltman59]

I am thinking along the lines of what Kate said in one of her posts---I suspect we have all been "PUNKED" by either a new troll or our same old, same old one----

[darkeyes]

I am thinking along the lines of what Kate said in one of her posts---I suspect we have all been "PUNKED" by either a new troll or our same old, same old one----
Don matta Voltie babes if we hav..is a fun lil barney an dus raise quite a few important issues... poor ole Trollie has had it blow up in 'is/'er/its chops if it is 'im/'er/it...;)

[MissyMissy]

ya young..
do not do something you may regret later.
not the child of course but the daddy
sometimes jail/prison has a revolving door for some.
i have seen so many friends in the past go in and out in and out then one day not come out.
so think...your child may end up not having a daddy at home sweety.
miss missy

[Major65]

GROW UP, GET A LIFE, GET AN EDUCATION, and FIND A NEW MAN....

[FalconAngel]

Okay I was gonna stay quite about this but its just been picking at me for a few days. I am not genetically deficient and I have been to jail. I MADE A MISTAKE. Oh my God now you must lock me up and throw away the key. I got an OWI in January of 08 and I knew it was wrong, but at the moment in time I was so drunk that I did not care. Does that make me a bad person I dont think so. I am a productive member of society that can hold down a full time job and a part time job. I pay my taxes, vote, and support the troops. I am a wonderful aunt to my 2 nephews and 2 neices, and hope some day to be a wonderful mom to my kids. Yes I made a mistake but that does not make me a bad person. Are you saying that you're perfect and never do anything that you are ashamed of?

And the drug thing...Most people that get drug offenses are addicts and that is a DISEASE! it does not make them any worse of a person than you. They have a disease, like cancer. Is someone with cancer a bad person? I dont think so. An addicting is a disease that requires treatment. THEY ARE NOT BAD PEOPLE! THEY ARE NOT GENETICALLY DEFICIENT! They are people that need some help.

That's fine. You are one of the few that actually learned from your mistake. Unfortunately, most do not.

And as much as I hate to admit it, men are the ones who learn from those mistakes the least.

But let's look at the facts here. The guy in question, WHILE ALREADY IN PRISON, has decided that breaking the rules, and subsequently the law, while still in prison, is a good idea.

That isn't deficient to you? How stupid does one need to be to think that it's a good idea to risk an increased sentence, just to knock someone up that you are not even sleeping with to do it?

As far as the drug offenses are concerned, minor posession is one thing, but most everyone who is not in law enforcement forget that most addicts end up breaking other, more serious laws just to get their fix. Or did you forget about the mothers that sell their children into white slavery to get a fix, or the guy that gets shot by an addict looking for money to pay for their fix, or the addict that jacks a $20,000 car to pay for a $20 or $40 rock. Maybe you're right, but the national crime statistics, from the FBI and other police agencies, say otherwise.

Cancer patients do not go out and steal or kill to pay for a high, so you are using a bad example to defend addicts.

Yes, addiction is a disease with a lot of components to it, but that does not justify theft, robbery, selling children into sexual slavery or any other crime because they have this disease that they have chosen to not do something about before it got to the point of committing crimes.

Addicts, with almost no exceptions, have to hit "rock bottom" before they actually make a real effort to break the habit. And more often than not, that "rock bottom" consists of doing life-altering harm to, or killing, either an innocent person or themselves.

I do understand about addicts. My best friend of more than 20 years has been clean and sober since 6 months before we met. She has been paying for her rock bottom up until 2 years ago. But she switched addictions from drugs and alcohol to cigarettes, until she realized that she had just redirected her addiction. Then she quit smoking.

When the addiction harms someone else, that addict needs to pay for what they have done. If they will not, or cannot, learn from their mistakes, then yes, they are genetically deficient.

[FalconAngel]

What I was referring to when I said that weed was not a serious criminal matter was not in the context of people driving under the influence of it but people sitting around, getting stoned and causing no harm to anyone.

Well, Izzy, as far as recreational pot-smoking, this is where the whole idea falls apart.

With the recreational drug use idea, we are hoping that everyone getting high at a house somewhere (their own, a friend, etc.) will actually stay where they are and not go out in their car/motorcycle to go home, or get munchies, or go out on their boat. The "responsible use" idea is not a guarantee that any of the users will actually use responsibly; just like alcohol.

With alcohol use statistics as a base, the probability that they will stay where they are til they sober up is pretty low.

I, personally have never understood the fascination with any of it, myself. Why escape from the world when there are better things to do with your money and time?

I know guys that spent their time in school getting high. You know what they are doing with their lives? Most are still getting high and (mostly) living in neighborhoods that most people are afraid to go into, while living off of other people's charity.

[CuddlyKate]

When the addiction harms someone else, that addict needs to pay for what they have done. If they will not, or cannot, learn from their mistakes, then yes, they are genetically deficient.I am an addict. It is true I no longer use hard drugs but that fact remains. I am an addict nonetheless and always shall be.

During my time as a user I did many things of which I am deeply ashamed. There are things I did of which I have little or no recollection and at the time did not care about myself or anyone else. My entire life was lived to find my next hit. I have several convictions for what are termed "petty" crimes which resulted from that desperate need to satisfy a craving for which I had no control whatsoever. There are others for which I was never apprehended or prosecuted. I did things which no sane human being would contemplate and which any who are tempted to use hard drugs would baulk at if they had half an inkling of the sheer desperation, craving and permanent state of panic and terror the addict carries within them.

Film and television portray addicts often in a seedy and desperate, often in a brutal light. The reality to the user is infinitely worse than anything which any portrayal or documentary can ever portray.

To the addict life and existence mean nothing. They will do anything, and I mean anything just to satisfy a need which, unless one is an addict themself, is impossible to understand. I did whatever it took. Addicts do and society condemns us as something less than human for it, and makes stock, half hearted efforts which are relatively ineffective to discourage us in the use of hard drugs. The main weapon they use is not treatement or rehabilitation and support, but criminal law. Criminal law has its place, for we must all take responsibility for our lives, yet proper support and treatment of addiction must surely take priority over making the addict's lot worse than it otherwise need be, thus ensuring that society is a much more dangerous and unstable place than we would wish. The current state of our society and the ever increasing incidence of hard drug use are evidence of this.

There is a strong case to be made for legalising all hard drugs, and producing and making them available on prescription to all users, while providing from revenues raised by their sale, proper and adequate treatment to wean people off their addiction and help them remain free of hard drug use. This has been mooted from time to time, yet western society refuses to even consider it.

On the contrary, western society would rather allow the misery to continue for millions of users, millions of victims abused by users, suppliers and producers, and allow huge criminal organisations to reap massive rewards producing third and fourth and even fifth rate products and worse, lethal products because of the way these organisations produce the drugs, which both ruin the lives of millions human beings and increase the rewards to themselves. The cost of fighting drug use and supply is immense and it is a war which we are losing. By legalising hard drugs and having them produced by licensed manufacturers, at a stroke, we do more to pull the rug from under the feet of the drug barons than has been achieved in a century. We cut off their income and thus their power.

People who live with and use hard drugs are not losers, and those unable to stop using are not genetically deficient. They are victims of drugs as much and in many ways more so than those who have been their victims as they struggled to live. It is not a case of learning from mistakes. When one is so desperate and has such an all consuming craving and one's body is eaten up by a need which is in effect its sustenance simply to survive, it is very difficult to realise mistakes. It is usually impossible even for the most strong willed among us. And I am afraid a strong will in the user addict is a very rare thing indeed.

Every day I live with the fear of falling back into drug use. I have rebuilt my life and am doing well in it. I am very fortunate indeed, for I had and have support in my life which has helped me come off drugs and stay off them. My support did not come from the state or its authorities but from those closest to me. The state just wanted me criminalised and do not deny that I deserved it my punishment.

Yet there is much more which could be done for our society, of which the user is a part, than simply criminalise users and peddlars, and half hearted, badly thought out and poorly funded attempts at support, treatment and rehabilitation which are quite simply not working.

This is a debate we should have openly in our society, yet we cower from it. I wish those who have never been addicts would understand that addiction to hard drugs is more than a way of life. To the hard drug user, it is life itself.

[darkeyes]

... If they will not, or cannot, learn from their mistakes, then yes, they are genetically deficient. Wivout involvin mesel in this lil spat Falcie...if they r in fact genetically deficient..shudn they b deservin a more compassion than u seem 2 b givin 'em ere?? Jus a lil summat 2 ponder hun..:)

[MaybeSayMaybe]

The dope dimension is indeed one of those intractable aspects of society. One can read whatever one wants into it. Everyone seems to agree that a little belt of something every so often won't implode the world. Everyone seems to agree that a whole society of junkies is a nightmare. Between those extremes it is very hard to find a balance point.

Just look at this planet's standard of living compared to that of 1000 years ago. Back then only noblemen could afford to be junkies, and probably not for long. Paupers had to work their butts off every day of the year with a few days off, just to stay alive. Those who could not keep up for any reason died a miserable death.

At least that is the obvious thing to stay. Interestingly, I read somewhere that in spite of the harshness of life in the middle ages, the villages actually had a functional form of medical insurance. The serfs threw some pennies into a pot, and if someone got hurt, there was money to be spent right then and there. (Compare that to what the US health insurance is today, and go figure.)

So maybe the serfs weren't as wretched as we today think they must have been. Maybe they had a few drunks that were able to survive, possibly by making the stuff for the other drunks. Maybe this issue of societal dead weight has always been around.

Today society is far more productive and far more differentiated. The price we pay for this may partly be in the form of enhanced societal dead weight. Steam engines work like this. Heat is turned into mechanical work, and the necessary side effect is waste heat. The faster the engine turns, the more work is produced, with more input energy and more waste heat.

Maybe society is kind of like that. The ghastly part is that a productive society does account that the waste heat consists of people's lives - society just strives to maximize the output. Society does not give a damn as to who winds up a winner or a loser.

So the lessons are clear. One must strive not to be one of the great unwashed, as someone will play that role. Secondly, the next time you look upon the great unwashed and think that it could never be you, think again.

[FalconAngel]

Wivout involvin mesel in this lil spat Falcie...if they r in fact genetically deficient..shudn they b deservin a more compassion than u seem 2 b givin 'em ere?? Jus a lil summat 2 ponder hun..:)

To a degree, yes, but not when they are capable of getting help yet unwilling to seek that help.

You don't learn how bad the fire burns until you burn yourself with it.

I am not attacking recovering addicts here. I know that it is a condition that one is never cured from.

I am talking about the criminals and addicts that, after repeated times trying to make it their way, and failing repeatedly, still keep doing it over and over again.

More specifically, the guy in question about which this thread was started.

Everything that has been told to us about this guy indicates that I, and others are right about him. There is no defense for the kind of stupidity on either the girl's part or his, that has any redeemable value for them.

Unfortunately, the actions attributed to him are indicative of the behaviors of a career criminal (genetic/social deficient).

We all want to think that there is more good in the world than there is, but people like that go to jail for very real reasons.

I don't believe in coddling repeat offenders. We, here in the states, have seen far too much of serious criminals go free or get off with light sentences, then go out to do it all over again, because our system coddles criminals.
Quite a few years ago, many states enacted the "3 strikes" laws. Repeat 3 times, go away for life.

People are sick of letting bad guys back out on the streets when they just go out and commit the same crimes over and over again.

I also believe that if someone can be saved from turning to crime, they should be, but once that person has it ingrained in who and what they are, to stay a criminal, then no quarter should be given to them.

Law of nature; the species gets stronger when the incapable are allowed to die off and not breed.

It's not that I don't care.

I do care, but I also know that we all have a responsibility to the advancement and survival of the very best of our various societies and species and that does not include career criminals (or potential career criminals), and others who intentionally cause a drain on society, among them.

I have no issue with former cons who are really making the effort to become productive citizens. They are no the ones that I have been talking about. It's the ones that pile on mistake after mistake, even while in jail. They are the ones that never learn and all they do is create more problems, more of a drain on society and continue to fail in their responsibility, as people, to learn from their mistakes.

[CuddlyKate]

I do not accept that all human beings are inherently good. Many are not. I do believe that all human beings are conditioned by the world around them and a good person can become a criminal by adverse circumstances and despair. A bad person, not all of whom become criminals, is more likely to become a criminal, and a habitual or career criminal at that. Frances would argue that the rest become politicians or go into business, and she has a point albeit slightly jaundiced. There are bad people who abuse others in all walks of life and yet they never in the strictest sense, break the law of the land.

We must look at our societies and ask ourselves why so many become criminal, and why people become habitual offenders. We must look at our education systems from which they come. From ghettos where poverty is at its worst and the sense of despair creates so much criminality. How and why do so many become involved with narcotics? Why, when we know the destruction hard drugs create upon the lives of people do so many, of all classes and incomes become addicted? Why are so many, at least within the UK sent to prison for what are often the most petty offences, many of which are not even criminal, when we know that within the prison system there are those who will leech upon them and pressure them into becoming criminal. Many turn to crime simply to feed families. To heat their homes and provide what they think is the life their family deserves. As the world gets deeper into recession this will increase enormously as people lose their jobs, lose income and the ability to keep their loved ones healthy, warm and with full tummies. And many of those who do so, not inherently or genetically bad, will be lured into the criminal life and will never be able to get out of it. The example of as is the father so is the son - from a good person is spawned the next generation of criminal. It is not a hard and fast rule but it will make it more likely that the children shall enter a life of habitual crime.

I am a middle class woman who is not stupid, yet despair and disillusionment with my life turned me on to hard drugs and to feed the inevitable addiction I resorted to crime. Petty mostly, but not petty to those upon which I visited my sins. I also resorted to a crime which is not in law a crime, but is considered such to the so called moral majority of those in our society and which many, myself included, fall foul of the law because of the society's uncaring and hypocritcal attutude and the difficulties created for them. There are many like me still living that life, but thankfully I had loving parents who plucked me from that life when I was at my lowest ebb, and by their love and commitment was able to get where I am now. Not everyone has that great advantage.

There is much that society offers to help criminals get out of criminality, and to aid addicts kick the habit, and yet this is woefully inadequate, because our society does not create the conditions where criminal or addict, often one and the same, wish to reform. Many do and successfully. Far more flounder because as a society we do not offer sufficient incentive or reward for them to do so. On the contrary, as any who has lived some form of criminal life can tell you, obtaining proper training and finding decent employment with prospects is not an easy thing. Attitudes among many are hard and work against those who try to re-enter society as honest working people and who wish to live with dignity. I was lucky. Enormously so. Some are, but far too many are discarded like so much human waste.

There is no easy answer to solving the problem of criminality. The massive waste of human potential and the financial cost of running a punitive penal system with limited rehabilitation on offer, where every year more and more people land up in prison are things which we must addess yet I see no sign of it. The answer is always lock more people away in the public interest.

Until we as a society grasp the nettle, and realise that while there is a place for punishment, there is also a place for rehabilitation and proper education and traning which will allow those who have been criminals to become worthwhile members of our society. We must create the conditions where they can live their lives with dignity and respect and provide for themselves and their families a decent life with prospect of improvement. Poverty and drugs are not the only reasons people turn to crime, but by solving those two problems we would go a long way to making a start in resolving the issue of criminality and the fear of crime endured by so many.

I do not accept the sink or swim view which survival of the fittest suggest. We all have value and it is a very subjective matter for intelligent beings to suggest who should and should not be allowed to survive, and who should and should not be given society's support and assitance in ensuring that survival. Intelligence, however brilliant, like nature, often gets it very wrong.

[FalconAngel]

I do not accept that all human beings are inherently good. Many are not. I do believe that all human beings are conditioned by the world around them and a good person can become a criminal by adverse circumstances and despair. A bad person, not all of whom become criminals, is more likely to become a criminal, and a habitual or career criminal at that. Frances would argue that the rest become politicians or go into business, and she has a point albeit slightly jaundiced. There are bad people who abuse others in all walks of life and yet they never in the strictest sense, break the law of the land.

We must look at our societies and ask ourselves why so many become criminal, and why people become habitual offenders. We must look at our education systems from which they come. From ghettos where poverty is at its worst and the sense of despair creates so much criminality. How and why do so many become involved with narcotics? Why, when we know the destruction hard drugs create upon the lives of people do so many, of all classes and incomes become addicted? Why are so many, at least within the UK sent to prison for what are often the most petty offences, many of which are not even criminal, when we know that within the prison system there are those who will leech upon them and pressure them into becoming criminal. Many turn to crime simply to feed families. To heat their homes and provide what they think is the life their family deserves. As the world gets deeper into recession this will increase enormously as people lose their jobs, lose income and the ability to keep their loved ones healthy, warm and with full tummies. And many of those who do so, not inherently or genetically bad, will be lured into the criminal life and will never be able to get out of it. The example of as is the father so is the son - from a good person is spawned the next generation of criminal. It is not a hard and fast rule but it will make it more likely that the children shall enter a life of habitual crime.

I am a middle class woman who is not stupid, yet despair and disillusionment with my life turned me on to hard drugs and to feed the inevitable addiction I resorted to crime. Petty mostly, but not petty to those upon which I visited my sins. I also resorted to a crime which is not in law a crime, but is considered such to the so called moral majority of those in our society and which many, myself included, fall foul of the law because of the society's uncaring and hypocritcal attutude and the difficulties created for them. There are many like me still living that life, but thankfully I had loving parents who plucked me from that life when I was at my lowest ebb, and by their love and commitment was able to get where I am now. Not everyone has that great advantage.

There is much that society offers to help criminals get out of criminality, and to aid addicts kick the habit, and yet this is woefully inadequate, because our society does not create the conditions where criminal or addict, often one and the same, wish to reform. Many do and successfully. Far more flounder because as a society we do not offer sufficient incentive or reward for them to do so. On the contrary, as any who has lived some form of criminal life can tell you, obtaining proper training and finding decent employment with prospects is not an easy thing. Attitudes among many are hard and work against those who try to re-enter society as honest working people and who wish to live with dignity. I was lucky. Enormously so. Some are, but far too many are discarded like so much human waste.

There is no easy answer to solving the problem of criminality. The massive waste of human potential and the financial cost of running a punitive penal system with limited rehabilitation on offer, where every year more and more people land up in prison are things which we must addess yet I see no sign of it. The answer is always lock more people away in the public interest.

Until we as a society grasp the nettle, and realise that while there is a place for punishment, there is also a place for rehabilitation and proper education and traning which will allow those who have been criminals to become worthwhile members of our society. We must create the conditions where they can live their lives with dignity and respect and provide for themselves and their families a decent life with prospect of improvement. Poverty and drugs are not the only reasons people turn to crime, but by solving those two problems we would go a long way to making a start in resolving the issue of criminality and the fear of crime endured by so many.

I do not accept the sink or swim view which survival of the fittest suggest. We all have value and it is a very subjective matter for intelligent beings to suggest who should and should not be allowed to survive, and who should and should not be given society's support and assitance in ensuring that survival. Intelligence, however brilliant, like nature, often gets it very wrong.

You make some very valid points and there is a lot of truth to the environment issue, but after a point, we, as humans, know the difference between right and wrong and therefore must own up to our own actions, as you have done.

I have a few small anecdotes that confirms, quite clearly, that there are bad people in all walks of life.

Some of the police friends that I know have told me that there are two types that join the police force; the ones that want to make a difference and the ones that want to stay out of jail.

Anyone living in South Florida can tell you about all of the Miami/Dade County politicians that have gone to jail for criminal acts while in office.

There is a lawyer, Jack Thompson, here in Florida, challenging the required judicial oaths of many of South Florida's judges, who may be illegally adjudicating for lack of those lawfully required oaths of office.

Also, since I mentioned lawyers, lawyers become lawyers mostly because of three reasons; money or to do good or to stay out of jail. I met one lawyer, a while back, that thought that because he was a lawyer, that he could launch fireworks from his hotel balcony over the wood frame villas of the hotel. When I told him that he will take them to the beach to fire them off or I would bring in the police (and he could explain to them that he felt he was exempt from the state fire safety regulations), he stopped firing them from his balcony and took them to the beach.

So, yes, there are evil people in every walk of life, but in the end, the worst ones end up in prison, either for a very long time, repeatedly, or both. And it becomes obvious which ones are going to be back for repeat offenses, because they keep trying to break the law, even when in prison.

[CuddlyKate]

There is much that society offers to help criminals get out of criminality, and to aid addicts kick the habit, and yet this is woefully inadequate, because our society does not create the conditions where criminal or addict, often one and the same, wish to reform. Many do and successfully. Far more flounder because as a society we do not offer sufficient incentive or reward for them to do so. On the contrary, as any who has lived some form of criminal life can tell you, obtaining proper training and finding decent employment with prospects is not an easy thing. Attitudes among many are hard and work against those who try to re-enter society as honest working people and who wish to live with dignity. I was lucky. Enormously so. Some are, but far too many are discarded like so much human waste

I did mean to say in this paragraph that for the criminal addict, the very nature of the addiction means for him or her that the difficulties and desire to reform are a hundred times more difficult. The poison in the system, and the craving they endure ensures that their desire for an end to their suffering is vastly diminished and that their capacity to think of a better, more honest future falls to almost non existence.

[CuddlyKate]

You make some very valid points and there is a lot of truth to the environment issue, but after a point, we, as humans, know the difference between right and wrong and therefore must own up to our own actions, as you have done.

In the case of the addicted FalconAngel, when still using and in need of a fix, we often do not have any idea of what is right or wrong, and when we do, such is the power of the cravings we endure, that we do not care, or in the case of those that do, need overcomes all. Addiction to narcotics is a compulsion which is like no other and does reduce us to the level of the wild beast.

[rissababynta]

In the case of the addicted FalconAngel, when still using and in need of a fix, we often do not have any idea of what is right or wrong, and when we do, such is the power of the cravings we endure, that we do not care, or in the case of those that do, need overcomes all. Addiction to narcotics is a compulsion which is like no other and does reduce us to the level of the wild beast.

You are so right. Addiction, especially strong ones, can and usually do easily change a persons normal way of thinking. Things they would normally not do and/or say can become a common behavior.

[FalconAngel]

In the case of the addicted FalconAngel, when still using and in need of a fix, we often do not have any idea of what is right or wrong, and when we do, such is the power of the cravings we endure, that we do not care, or in the case of those that do, need overcomes all. Addiction to narcotics is a compulsion which is like no other and does reduce us to the level of the wild beast.

True enough, however, anyone over the age of 30 should have been well exposed to the fact that taking the illegal drugs is wrong in the first place.There is no justification for their actions after that point.

In aviation it is called a cascade error. When one makes one error after another after another all because they want to believe that they misread the first error in the first place.

With drug abuse, if one knows that it is wrong to begin with, then everything after that is still their fault and whether or not the addiction "blocks" the conscience, they are still responsible and accountable to remember that they were breaking the law in the first place.
That is our responsibility as adults.
They knew it was the wrong road to begin with, so everything that they did, once on that road, is still their fault. No excuses. They knew that it was wrong to take that road in the first place. No excuses.

However, it is amazing how quickly an addict criminal remembers that what they did was wrong, and starts to try to negotiate themselves out of the situation, when the police are putting them in handcuffs.

[csrakate]

I've tried very hard not to respond to this thread....having just gone through losing my brother to his addiction to pills and alcohol less than a week ago. He wasn't actively using at the time. He didn't die of an overdose nor did he commit any crime to get where he was...he died as a result of living his life on the edge and choosing that life over one that would be more fruitful and life affirming. His body was worn out and he could no longer fight infection and disease. He never meant to cause anyone any harm...only himself, but as with all addicts, he left a legacy of pain and hurt behind and his survivors are left with feelings of inadequacy and remorse for not having been able to help him. Please don't be so quick to condemn those who suffer with this insidious disease. Believe me, they don't truly choose to live this way....they just get so mired in their own pain and addiction that they just can't see beyond the life they have created for themselves. YES....it is true that they are in denial and refusing to help themselves. YES ...they often expect others to help them. And YES, sometimes they expect a miracle to pull them out of their despair. Sometimes that miracle doesn't happen and they never see the truth. But to condemn them as lesser beings as a result of this disease is far from fair.

I am struggling to find the compassion and understanding to better accept what happened to my brother, but I simply cannot see posts condemning addicts as "genetically" impaired or as lesser humans without remembering that my brother was once a very loving and giving member of society who got lost along the way. Please...I beg of you to have a little compassion for those who suffer. I'm not asking for you to accept what they do, but to simply remember that "There But By the Grace of God Go I"....it could happen to anyone. Believe me, I know!

Kate

[CuddlyKate]

True enough, however, anyone over the age of 30 should have been well exposed to the fact that taking the illegal drugs is wrong in the first place.There is no justification for their actions after that point.




However, it is amazing how quickly an addict criminal remembers that what they did was wrong, and starts to try to negotiate themselves out of the situation, when the police are putting them in handcuffs.

It is all very well speaking of justification and knowing of the dangers of taking illegal drugs, and it would be so in a perfect world. We do not however live in such a place and human beings are very imperfect beings. It is illegal to supercede speed limits on our roads, yet hundreds of thousands do so with impunity with often catastrophic consequences to themselves and others. Many boast about their exploits on our roads and berate those of us who have had the audacity to hold them up by sticking to the speed limits. Many hundreds of thousands drink and drive over the prescribed limits repeatedly again often with dreadful consequences. People use hand held mobile phones while driving again something which is against the law and again something which has cost lives.

I doubt there are many of us who have never broken the law, and more so, knowingly or otherwise I doubt there are many who have not broken the criminal law in their lifetime. Most people try to live responsible lives and succeed reasonably well, but unfortunately not all of us do so all the time. The law often accepts mitigation when judging peoples actions and so it must because sometimes there are circumstances which have to be considered when judging an individuals actions. Sometimes there are excuses and that is also part of what makes us human. Our ability to at least try and understand why someone acted as they did and judge and set penalties accordingly.

I know about being apprehended and can assure you the last thing that entered my head was whether or not I did wrong. When being bundled into a police car I humiliated myself and said anything, offered anything not to be driven to a police station and locked up. Not because I knew or cared whether I had done wrong or not. In any circumstances that is the last thing an addict considers. What I was so frightened of was where was my next hit coming from? How would I survive if imprisoned without what I needed to keep me alive. What was to become of me without the only thing in my life which kept me going. Fear, terror and panic. Thats what I felt. Not a recognition of wrong doing. I would have said, and did say anything to get me off the hook. I had lost my humanity and did not care.

[MaybeSayMaybe]

Intelligence, however brilliant, like nature, often gets it very wrong.

Actually, this is all too true. Inside of every smartass there is a fool waiting to break free. Those people who cooked up all those exotic derivatives all had fancy schmancy degrees, and look where that has taken us. I wonder what they were smoking the whole time - probably those college degrees wrapped around a dirty sock.

Most people don't realize this, but smart people are also treated like waste sometimes. First ya hire 'em, then ya get irritated by 'em, then ya make a move on 'em. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. Even worse, they can adapt and put up a fight when they are being slimed.

To get a handle on these social situations, 'tis best to do it the way you lay out a web page - start from the outside and work your way in. Get the big picture, then fill in the details. Ironically, an attempt to humanize the situation works best when it starts from the other side of the field.

[FalconAngel]

It is all very well speaking of justification and knowing of the dangers of taking illegal drugs, and it would be so in a perfect world. We do not however live in such a place and human beings are very imperfect beings. It is illegal to supercede speed limits on our roads, yet hundreds of thousands do so with impunity with often catastrophic consequences to themselves and others. Many boast about their exploits on our roads and berate those of us who have had the audacity to hold them up by sticking to the speed limits. Many hundreds of thousands drink and drive over the prescribed limits repeatedly again often with dreadful consequences. People use hand held mobile phones while driving again something which is against the law and again something which has cost lives.

I doubt there are many of us who have never broken the law, and more so, knowingly or otherwise I doubt there are many who have not broken the criminal law in their lifetime. Most people try to live responsible lives and succeed reasonably well, but unfortunately not all of us do so all the time. The law often accepts mitigation when judging peoples actions and so it must because sometimes there are circumstances which have to be considered when judging an individuals actions. Sometimes there are excuses and that is also part of what makes us human. Our ability to at least try and understand why someone acted as they did and judge and set penalties accordingly.

I know about being apprehended and can assure you the last thing that entered my head was whether or not I did wrong. When being bundled into a police car I humiliated myself and said anything, offered anything not to be driven to a police station and locked up. Not because I knew or cared whether I had done wrong or not. In any circumstances that is the last thing an addict considers. What I was so frightened of was where was my next hit coming from? How would I survive if imprisoned without what I needed to keep me alive. What was to become of me without the only thing in my life which kept me going. Fear, terror and panic. Thats what I felt. Not a recognition of wrong doing. I would have said, and did say anything to get me off the hook. I had lost my humanity and did not care.



That all may be so, but, to paraphrase the Super chicken theme song "they knew the stuff was illegal when they did it". I've gotten stopped for speeding before (as you brought up that people speed all the time, and that is also against the law). Many times, as a matter of fact, and when I was in the wrong, I took my ticket quietly and without question I took responsibility for my actions.

But traffic laws are, for the largest part, minor infractions (accepting for more serious things, such as DUI, or vehicular homicide and such), which here in the states are rarely treated as criminal violations, but more often than not as civil violations.

For the sake of this thread, we are talking about serious criminals and serious crime, here. For this part of the argument, drug abusers are just convenient targets. Since, realistically, the majority of crime by addicts is things like petty theft and such. The serious repeat offenders; the ones who, repeatedly, commit crimes when clean and sober, are the real issue, for the sake of this particular argument.

A guy who is in jail and is talking about trying to smuggle something either in or out of jail is a repeat offender. He may or may not be an addict, but either way, is an experienced criminal, not some guy who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The "innocent con" idea doesn't wash because only someone who has quite a bit of experience with the prison system would have the where with all to even have an idea as to how the said smuggling could happen. And at the age group that the guy in question is, he's probably a gangbanger.
It is the actions of a career criminal or a career criminal in the making.



As a side note to all of this, CsraKate, we truly do sympathize with your loss. Any loss of a loved one, either directly or indirectly, to drug abuse is difficult for friends and family in ways that most people cannot fathom.

[MissyMissy]

i was born into racist, hate breeding, terrorist mofos. i grew up around a certain type of people. most have not made it. i have one living friend left who hides in her house a lot. most people i have known rich or poor no matter how nice they are in certain ways,,,,when involved in alcohol and drugs or other worse things go in and out of prison then one day do not come back out .
it is not whether any of these things are legal or illegal drugs. any drug just about or all can kill you if you use them in an abusive way. sometimes not even abusing them.
i have seen so many young girls do this with these men who go in jail. and the babies end up having a daddy behind bars they will never get to play with or know well. but i do have hope that maybe some of those that go to prison and have a second chance will not dissappoint thier kids and break thier lil ones hearts. i have known alot of men who have had plenty of chances. i have not met one yet who did not return to the big house. so i hope this bf learns from the first time.
missy

[proseros]

I cannot believe half this forum is absorbed in this "Springeresque" drama enouugh to pick through every pseudo-intellectual rationalization about whether or not a bag of fucking nut won't beep passing through a jailhouse metal detector. WTF! This isn't a television show and REALITY is far more cut and dry than all the bullshit that has been posted supposedly on behalf of this young woman-who for one, though adult is posing a kind of query I wouldn't expect from ANY 20 year old to begin with! An adolescent MIGHT invent such a scheme as part of a prank, but I couldn't get ready for a 20 year old woman to ask me about wanting to have baby with a man who is in lock-up and yadda...yadda...

Either this whole thread is fairy tale or this young woman has a seriously DYSFUNCTIONAL perspective of the world that needs WAY MORE than the 2-bit opinionS of any of us-not to say that all of this is not for the genuine welfare for the person concerned, BUT it can't do shit for her, and we've got to know that for what it really is. Otherwise any adult should be ashamed of themselves for not finding the wherewithall to question the extreme dire straights this young woman may be in right from the start and deal with the REALITY OF THE SITUATION AND PEOPLE INVOLVED.

NO! WHAT YOU SHOULD DO SWEETHEART IS GET A JOB IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE ALREADY, GET SOME COUNSELING AND SOME ASSISTANCE FOR YOUR CHILD AND FORGET ABOUT SOME GUY IN JAIL YOU'RE TRYING TO GET KNOCKED UP WITH. HE CANNOT DO ANYTHING FOR YOU OR YOUR CHILD IN JAIL AND AS LONG AS HE IS IN JAIL ALL YOU HAVE NOW IS ENOUGH SPACE IN YOUR LIFE TO FOCUS ON TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILD AND THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO BE DOING. I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE YOUR TIME AND MY TIME PICKING THROUGH YOUR ROSE COLORED AGONIZING AND FEED INTO YOUR DYSFUNCTIONAL EMOTIONAL PIDDLING. KNUCKLE UP, GROW UP AND GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER SISTER, WHATEVER SORT OF SHIT IS HAPPENING IN YOUR LIFE, ITS GOT YOU IN A RELATIONSHIP THAT OBVIOUSLY IS NOT THE BEST SORT OF RELATIONSHIP ANYONE OUGHT TO BE IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

AND THIS IS NOT MY ADVICE NOR MY OPINION- ITS WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW BABYGIRL. DON'T GET IT TWISTED-OKAY. HOW YOU DOING?


LOVE YOU. PEACE. PROSE.

[bigirl_inwv]

I just can't believe the amount of assumptions and generalizations that have been made from a simple post that, while probably false, didn't provide us with very much information about the poster or her b/f.

[canuckotter]

I just can't believe the amount of assumptions and generalizations that have been made from a simple post that, while probably false, didn't provide us with very much information about the poster or her b/f.

Shh! You'll spoil all the fun people are having arguing over stereotypes! :tongue:

[proseros]

Shh! You'll spoil all the fun people are having arguing over stereotypes! :tongue:

Hmm. More like creating stereotypes to argue over.

[BareHunter45]

I have been following the posts since the first one and I find it very unusual that "ayoungmom", has not been heard from since. I think it was a message to create a heated discussion and we fell for it. I, for one, do not believe she is real.

Bare

[Cdasue]

Hmmm..you know what I find really interesting is the author of this post has never posted again and all we have done is argue...hmm. Me thinks the little *insert desired expletive here* has gotten what "he" wanted.

[darkeyes]

I have been following the posts since the first one and I find it very unusual that "ayoungmom", has not been heard from since. I think it was a message to create a heated discussion and we fell for it. I, for one, do not believe she is real.

BareMayb Bare hun.. but sumtines outa lil acts a stupidity an trollyism cum lil gems wich r both pertinent an important 2 posters an otha peeps on site..wetha this is such a thread is up 2 each individual 2 judge...:) Certainly has excited a few lively exchanges..so mayb...;)

[void()]

There exists a method to eradicate trolls, and keep them gone.

First, be aware of continuity. Read and examine a post for consistent outrageous situational descriptions. Most of us are capable enough to apply the adage 'if it sounds too good to be true ...', the same applies for the inverse. And yes, a simple common sense rule of thumb does work.

Second, use selective indifference. You are not obligated to react or respond to any post on the forums. In fact you owe not even the courtesy of reading any post. People exist who for lack of better turn of phrase are attention whores. Giving them any form of attention weather directly or indirectly feeds their hunger. Stop giving them free cheese, they go away.

Third, be diligent and enduring in applying the two suggestions above.

I would not have bothered, yet for annoyance. Such drama as exists herein does annoy. I treat annoyances with a calm reserve and nerves of steel. An ounce of courage and dissent often help.

Nota Bene: Silence can be a weapon and shield. Few merit its use, trolls always do.

[rissababynta]

Truthfully i'm surprised at how insulting everyone has been on this thread...

let's just say this person is real and the post they made was real (which I don't believe it...). All anyone has done the whole time has been insulting her, saying that her b/f or husband or whatever is a creep and a loser although no one even knows why he is in jail to begin with and saying that she is basically a moron for sticking by him. Last time I checked people on here weren't normally so critical and mean. What happened...

whether real or fake this thread has really brought out some true colors in people I think. Everyone has given this thread way too much power and I think everyone should just take it easy already...

[darkeyes]

Truthfully i'm surprised at how insulting everyone has been on this thread...

let's just say this person is real and the post they made was real (which I don't believe it...). All anyone has done the whole time has been insulting her, saying that her b/f or husband or whatever is a creep and a loser although no one even knows why he is in jail to begin with and saying that she is basically a moron for sticking by him. Last time I checked people on here weren't normally so critical and mean. What happened...

whether real or fake this thread has really brought out some true colors in people I think. Everyone has given this thread way too much power and I think everyone should just take it easy already...
Actually me don agree wivya Riss hun... not every 1 has been mean ..in fact ther large no. a posters who hav been ne thin but.. ther is sum mean spiritedness sure.. weneva ya get down 2 discussin owt 2 do wiv the penal sustems a ne country ther r always sum... actually think ifya read ova the piece ther been a fair bitta compassion... even Falcie me don think is bein mean spirited e' jus has a peculiar view wich e' holds an that prob reflects the opinions a mos peeps in the US an UK.. don matta if its bollox or not.. far as it goes its valid.. tho Falcie hun don getya hopes up...;) u an me will still b on opposite sides a the debate... an its nowt 2 do wivya pikkin a fite wiv me partner!!!:tong:

So Riss... afraid mean spirits will always b among us.. wetha the OP an 'er story is reel or no... me thinks that the debate has evolved 2 show that not every 1 is mean spirited an that lots on site aint... not that they r... an that brings a lil smile 2 me lil face..:)

Howeva..those that wer nasty pasties...hav on the otha hand shown that they mite hav a view...but they losin the argument cos nunna them had an argument they cud articulate otha than 2 more or less call yung mom a fake (wich she mite well b) an a daft cow ..wich if she is reel an she goes ahead an dus as she rote in bout in the 1st place .. she mos assuiredly is... the rest a the argument evolved as arguments do in forums 2 summat altogetha much more fun an enlightenin:).. not 2 say in me own humble opinion..quite important... an so daft cow or fake..she has served a useful purpose...;)

[_Joe_]

Truthfully i'm surprised at how insulting everyone has been on this thread...

let's just say this person is real and the post they made was real (which I don't believe it...). All anyone has done the whole time has been insulting her, saying that her b/f or husband or whatever is a creep and a loser although no one even knows why he is in jail to begin with and saying that she is basically a moron for sticking by him. Last time I checked people on here weren't normally so critical and mean. What happened...

whether real or fake this thread has really brought out some true colors in people I think. Everyone has given this thread way too much power and I think everyone should just take it easy already...


You know, I think it was Dilbert who had the comment "If there's no such thing as stupid questions, then what type of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time for a question, and get stupid again?"

See, I believe yes - there are stupid people out there. They exist. If one don't beleive there is not, then chances are they are the king or queen of the stupids.

Sometimes, one of these people come out and say something so absurd, so redamndiculous that the truth must not be sugar coated, it must be a hard blunt blow to the head that "Hey, what you are saying, what you are doing, or what you are thinking of doing, IS STUPID". Because if this isn't said, what results is the opposite and equal reaction of stupidity, which history has proven to show results in Accidents, Regret, Unwanted babies, explosions, rifts in the space time continum, etc etc etc.

I for one welcome the more experienced and/or wiser people that come forward and say "Hey, this is STUPID", because without them mankind can never hope to evolve...it would just blow itself up.

[FalconAngel]

Well said, Joe.

As a Wiccan, many people expect me to be PC and passive. My craft does not require me to do that.

It does require me to be honest, so when someone says something so amazingly stupid, that you just want to beat them, I handle it accordingly. (no I don't beat them, unless they desperately deserve it)
I will be polite, and where needed, diplomatic, to almost everyone, but there are those people that don't want to see the train coming down the tracks. Those folks need to be kicked off the tracks before they get run over.
It isn't polite and it isn't "nice", but it gets the job done and later on, they thank you for saving their life.

Common sense is far from common and many people in this world have never learned to "properly" think things through before deciding that a bad idea is a good one.

I have no obligation, of any kind, to be "nice" to those folks. I am not a politician. I will not lie to you while kissing your ass. i won't even kiss your ass. I will give it to you straight and honest, though.

Isn't that what friends are for?

[rissababynta]

At no point have I said not to be honest. All I'm simply saying is that there is a difference between being honest and being mean and whether you think someone is a moron or not doesn't mean that it should be ok for that person to be insulted.

Falcon, I've seen you on here before defend yourself to the end when someone has something unkind to say about Wicca whether in direct reference to you or not. In the end, that is their opinion but you were still obviously offended by it (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!). The "attacker" has an honest opinion that your belief is moronic and sometimes that you yourself are moronic for believing it. Shouldn't it kind of be seen as the same concept? Because you have an opinion that someone's way of life is stupid and that their ideas and ways of going about things are stupid, they deserve to be put down?

[FalconAngel]

At no point have I said not to be honest. All I'm simply saying is that there is a difference between being honest and being mean and whether you think someone is a moron or not doesn't mean that it should be ok for that person to be insulted.

Falcon, I've seen you on here before defend yourself to the end when someone has something unkind to say about Wicca whether in direct reference to you or not. In the end, that is their opinion but you were still obviously offended by it (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!). The "attacker" has an honest opinion that your belief is moronic and sometimes that you yourself are moronic for believing it. Shouldn't it kind of be seen as the same concept? Because you have an opinion that someone's way of life is stupid and that their ideas and ways of going about things are stupid, they deserve to be put down?

Never said that you did say to not be honest. Never would say it.

And yes, I have been offended by their ignorance over my belief system, but that is a case of not understanding because of 2000 years of disinformation and propaganda.

In this case, however, I have a certain degree of understanding of the types of people that I am talking about, that most people, except for maybe cops and criminal lawyers have little real understanding of.

Among other things, I have, from time to time in my youth, spent a great deal of time hanging out with types that are....less than savory, so I know what they are like. It is part of what some have called my chameleon nature.

I could be wrong on a few things with this, but it is not extremely likely, based on my experiences and the experiences of friends that deal with these types on a daily basis.

We would all love to think that there is more good out there than there is. I know that I would, but I am realistic about these things.

Humanity is the ultimate predator. We even prey on our own species. We are the only species of animal that does that. Too many people are raised wrong and think that it's okay to get what they want at all costs and/or by any means necessary. My son's mom is one of those types, as her father is as well.
I'm actually surprised that she hasn't ended up in jail, yet, to be honest.

But, most people are not as honest or honorable as we would wish. If they were, then we wouldn't have jails filled to capacity.
Add to that, the fact that genetic scientists figured out, about 20 years ago, that an estimated 34% - 37% of the human population is what they call "bad blood", or genetically inclined to behave in a criminal/countersocial way, then one can understand a certain degree of intolerance, on many people's part for certain behaviors.

Me, I look for patterns of behavior. My philosophy is that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck , acts like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck.

A criminal that does one thing bad and then behaves himself in jail is not as likely to repeat as one that tries to break the rules while in jail. It doesn't require any major psychology skills. It's just paying attention to behavior and people's behavior patterns. Nothing more or less than that.

I've watched the patterns and made my opinions based on that. Haven't been wrong yet. I may end up being wrong sometime in the future, but not yet.

[rissababynta]

Never said that you did say to not be honest. Never would say it.

And yes, I have been offended by their ignorance over my belief system, but that is a case of not understanding because of 2000 years of disinformation and propaganda.

In this case, however, I have a certain degree of understanding of the types of people that I am talking about, that most people, except for maybe cops and criminal lawyers have little real understanding of.

Among other things, I have, from time to time in my youth, spent a great deal of time hanging out with types that are....less than savory, so I know what they are like. It is part of what some have called my chameleon nature.

I could be wrong on a few things with this, but it is not extremely likely, based on my experiences and the experiences of friends that deal with these types on a daily basis.

We would all love to think that there is more good out there than there is. I know that I would, but I am realistic about these things.

Humanity is the ultimate predator. We even prey on our own species. We are the only species of animal that does that. Too many people are raised wrong and think that it's okay to get what they want at all costs and/or by any means necessary. My son's mom is one of those types, as her father is as well.
I'm actually surprised that she hasn't ended up in jail, yet, to be honest.

But, most people are not as honest or honorable as we would wish. If they were, then we wouldn't have jails filled to capacity.
Add to that, the fact that genetic scientists figured out, about 20 years ago, that an estimated 34% - 37% of the human population is what they call "bad blood", or genetically inclined to behave in a criminal/countersocial way, then one can understand a certain degree of intolerance, on many people's part for certain behaviors.

Me, I look for patterns of behavior. My philosophy is that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck , acts like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck.

A criminal that does one thing bad and then behaves himself in jail is not as likely to repeat as one that tries to break the rules while in jail. It doesn't require any major psychology skills. It's just paying attention to behavior and people's behavior patterns. Nothing more or less than that.

I've watched the patterns and made my opinions based on that. Haven't been wrong yet. I may end up being wrong sometime in the future, but not yet.


I pretty much agree with everything you said but my point still remains that people don't have to be mean to others because they are different from them in their actions or views or opinions, no matter how much "lower" we feel those actions, views, and opinions are.

[bigirl_inwv]

In this case, however, I have a certain degree of understanding of the types of people that I am talking about, that most people, except for maybe cops and criminal lawyers have little real understanding of.

Among other things, I have, from time to time in my youth, spent a great deal of time hanging out with types that are....less than savory, so I know what they are like. It is part of what some have called my chameleon nature.

I could be wrong on a few things with this, but it is not extremely likely, based on my experiences and the experiences of friends that deal with these types on a daily basis.




Don't ever assume you know what it's like unless you've been there yourself. You don't. I hang out with surgeons, doesn't mean I know how to do a heart transplant.

[CuddlyKate]

Humanity is the ultimate predator. We even prey on our own species. We are the only species of animal that does that. We are not the only animal which preys on its own kind. Many many animals, birds and fish do so. Many practice cannibalism especially in times of hardship, but often because they want to. Male Tigers and Lions for instance will kill the young of another to breed and ensure their genes are carried on to the next generation. Some apes and monkeys are also very predatory to their own species. Chimpanzees are very warlike and will kill and eat an enemy who is of its own kind. In the sea many species of shark hunt and kill its own for a meal, especially where the prey is injured. Some fish will prey on the young of another of its own and even on a smaller and weaker adult. Some reptiles also do this and will attack and kill one of its own kind. In the insect world many of the young of a queen are attacked and eaten by their own hive or nest. Spider females often attack and kill the much smaller male, not always after mating, and it is not unkown for them to feed upon the young of another female. Even rabbits will kill and eat their own young although this is generally done if they are in danger rather than out of a need to eat. Many other small mammals do this.

Animals preying on their own kind are commonplace on every continent and in every country. They may or may not eat their prey but they are still predatory upon them. They do it for many differents reasons but they do it. We are not alone in that. Human beings, at least most human beings may still be predatory upon their own species, but it is quite rare in this day and age to eat the kill.

On the general point which Bigirl in WV makes I tend to agree. You may have an understanding of why people are what they are, but it is at best superficial and and very subjective. Lawyers and policemen and other law enforcement authorites may have an understanding of what makes a criminal, but that too is shallow and subjective in most cases. I have an understanding of why people become policemen and lawyers, prison officers or Chaplains. But my understanding is superficial at best and in no way makes me understand the whole, or enables me to consider myself an expert.

[littleb20]

and we want a baby really really bad. he was thinking about trying to sneak some cum to me at vistation in a bag. how can i get pregnate with his baby if he does that.

ANY AND ALL IDEAS ARE MORE THAN WELCOME

hello....well first i will tell you about me....i am 20 years old...and i have two kids...i got pregnant at 15 with my first. TRUST me on this...you need a man to help raise the kid....its to hard being young and alone...i am married to the man who fathered both my kids...but he went to prison for 14 months after i had our first son...it is WAY TOO hard to raise a kid alone...and its even harder to work being pregnant...and even harder to find a baby sitter for the kid to go to work....i would suggest waiting....i know i cant tell you what to do...but being young....is so great...dont let kids ruin that for you....trust me on this i know. dont get me wrong i love my kids but hunny its hard....and i wish i would have waited.....i missed out on alot...and i am still missing out on alot. i hope i helped some.
♥ always, brandy:tong:

[darkeyes]

hello....well first i will tell you about me....i am 20 years old...and i have two kids...i got pregnant at 15 with my first. TRUST me on this...you need a man to help raise the kid....its to hard being young and alone...i am married to the man who fathered both my kids...but he went to prison for 14 months after i had our first son...it is WAY TOO hard to raise a kid alone...and its even harder to work being pregnant...and even harder to find a baby sitter for the kid to go to work....i would suggest waiting....i know i cant tell you what to do...but being young....is so great...dont let kids ruin that for you....trust me on this i know. dont get me wrong i love my kids but hunny its hard....and i wish i would have waited.....i missed out on alot...and i am still missing out on alot. i hope i helped some.
♥ always, brandy:tong:
Need a man Littleb???:eek: it mite b easier..dependin on the man..it mite also b a helluva lot harder gain dependin on the man.. do agree wiv the tenor of ya argument in 1 sense..it is a lot easier if ther r 2 ofya.. 2 kids 'ere...2 of us..but no man 2 been seen ta much. Well.. the younga 1's dad is still involved wiv 'is lil girl an 'e dus a lot for 'er.. like ne decent parent who is apart from the 1 who has custody... if ther r 2 ofya..an both r luffin partners..an luffin parents..no matta the sex it is easier...not essential but much easier.. am not bein anti man..jus bein pro parent... an in principle wivya general argument bout single parents.. do agree wivya... jus not essential for eitha 2 b a man..an fore ne 1 jumps down me neck...nor is it essential for eitha 2 b a woman... 'cept in our case:bigrin: