Political Presuppositions

[TheBisexualProfessor]

It really IS okay to disagree, or so everyone says. But then when we DO disagree, look what happens. The presidential election is a great example: there are so many supporters of Obama who gloat now and act like something is wrong with those who didn't support him (and that's over 45% of the electorate).

Ok, so congratulations to the winners! But those who didn't vote for Mr. Obama are also faithful citizens! :2cents:

[_Joe_]

Ya, the whole "YOU SUCK YOU LOST YOUR RETARDED" mentality is very childish.

But then if you think about it, how lucky are we that we can stoop that level...in other parts of the world you could get publicly executed.

[12voltman59]

It is part and parcel to the way things are---I do hope that maybe we can get beyond this demonizaton of the other that has come to the fore in recent years---if not ---we are on the path to a no good end----we have to get beyond these divisions and pull together to move things forward.

If we don't pull together---we are going to sink together.

[ghytifrdnr]

It is part and parcel to the way things are---I do hope that maybe we can get beyond this demonizaton of the other that has come to the fore in recent years---if not ---we are on the path to a no good end----we have to get beyond these divisions and pull together to move things forward.

If we don't pull together---we are going to sink together.

Hey Volty, I gotta disagree.

I think the 'gotta pull together' meme is just the flip side of the demonization. They are both just tools used by politicians to try to keep all the sheep herded together. The reality is that we are all individuals with the right to think and act as we please.

I think the thread title was misspelled.
It should be POLITICAL SUPPOSITORIES.

:2cents:

[FalconAngel]

Hey Volty, I gotta disagree.

I think the 'gotta pull together' meme is just the flip side of the demonization. They are both just tools used by politicians to try to keep all the sheep herded together. The reality is that we are all individuals with the right to think and act as we please.

I think the thread title was misspelled.
It should be POLITICAL SUPPOSITORIES.

:2cents:

Actually, I think the "pulling together" that Volty is talking about is not about the individual freedoms set aside, but more of the "if we don't hang together, we shall surely hang separately" kind of pulling together. As in "we should all do our part", kind of like Kennedy asked of us during his presidency.

Also, just my :2cents: and my take on it.

[hudson9]

It is very easy to fall into demonizing your political opponents -- I've done it myself from time to time, despite my best intentions. (The question is, where is the dividing line between someone like Hitler and those you just disagree with to varying degrees... a looooong discussion for another time.)

I would just point to the 2 speeches the candidates made Tuesday night -- Obama's victory speech, and McCain's concession speech. Both were models of the best of what each should be. No gloating or triumphalism in victory, but rather reaching out to others: "...I will listen to you." No defiance or obstructionism in defeat, but dignity and acceptance that the country has made a choice.

Obama was both tactically smart, and morally wise in refusing to demonize McCain in the campaign. Because the reality of governing is that you DO need to build consensus, and sometimes compromise on both sides. Bush/Cheney never did that, and look where it got us.

We can disagree on what is best for America and the world, even strenuously, but ultimately we all have to work and live together. Demonizing your opponents only creates enemies that may be temporarily defeated, but will come back at you again someday, even more viciously.

[DiamondDog]

Ya, the whole "YOU SUCK YOU LOST YOUR RETARDED" mentality is very childish.

But then if you think about it, how lucky are we that we can stoop that level...in other parts of the world you could get publicly executed.

Agreed. I didn't vote for McCain but I'm not going to bash people who did or call or think of them as idiots.

You wrote about other parts of the world.

I think it's funny how people act like politicians in the United States are so corrupt and how bad it is here in the government but it's nothing compared to what it's like in Latin/South America.

[12voltman59]

Actually, I think the "pulling together" that Volty is talking about is not about the individual freedoms set aside, but more of the "if we don't hang together, we shall surely hang separately" kind of pulling together. As in "we should all do our part", kind of like Kennedy asked of us during his presidency.

Also, just my :2cents: and my take on it.

You got it Falcon---thanks for clearing that up if I wasn't clear enough in my previous post!!

[Falke]

It is part and parcel to the way things are---I do hope that maybe we can get beyond this demonizaton of the other that has come to the fore in recent years

Actually, mudslinging for the sake of becoming US president has been around since the Jefferson Vs. John Adams in 1796. Hence, you could almost call it a American tradition... :bigrin:

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/22/mf.campaign.slurs.slogans/index.html

[darkeyes]

Actually, mudslinging for the sake of becoming US president has been around since the Jefferson Vs. John Adams in 1796. Hence, you could almost call it a American tradition... :bigrin:

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/22/mf.campaign.slurs.slogans/index.htmlSame the world ova Zwit... 'merica no diff from ne wer else... lil election..lotsa slaggin.. jus how it is...;)

[BronzeBobby]

As a McCain supporter, I should say, first of all, that I felt tremendous relief after the election, because at last I don't have to debate people anymore. As you can see in this thread, people still throw in a few jabs at Bush here and there, and you get the allusion to Obama being so "gracious" and not demonizing McCain (which is complete bullshit, Obama spent the whole campaign saying McCain was old and out of touch and a carbon copy of Bush, who has spent more time fighting McCain than agreeing with him, despite that old canard about them agreeing 90% of the time....) The election has finally ended the debate, and now I don't have to get into a back and forth.

Regarding the whole idea of "coming together" I reject that as a concept. I voted against Obama because I disagreed with his policies and found his supporters frighteningly fascistic in their enthusiasm. If by "coming together" you mean I have to pretend I agree with them, and let them push me around and guilt-trip me and manipulate me the way the Obama campaign has for the last 18 months, then ...... no, I am not a patriot, I guess.

Obviously I am not going to assassinate this president and I will pay my taxes and be law-abiding. But I don't like him, and I will not refrain from saying so or telling people they're wrong if -- in my admittedly subjective view -- they are wrong.

I said nothing for 72 hours while Obama's fans celebrated, because I am courteous and don't want to spoil their fun. In exchange I got gloating, obnoxious emails and phone calls from people. And suddenly they all want me to come out and admit that all along I thought Sarah Palin was a Christian bimbo and John McCain was horrible, as if I had been lying the entire campaign.

I just say, "congratulations on your candidate winning. I look forward to the country's debates over the next few years. Good day." And then I end the interaction. There's no point in prolonging the debate.

Here in California, Proposition 8 passed, largely because of overwhelming support from blacks, Latinos, and poor people, all staunch pro-Obama constituencies. Now gay marriage is illegal again here -- the price the state paid for the overzealous registration drives by pro-Obama groups.

As someone who voted for McCain, the Prop 8 controversy takes the heat off me, because I can retreat from debate and let the various Obama constituencies fight each other.

And over the next 4 years, I plan to remain active in right-wing political circles. I think it's great that now we can be creative and talk about our ideas, without worrying about Washington protocol, since we are effectively exiled from Washington. Good things come from exile.

Ciao,
Bronze