i dont like any of them

[chulainn2]

I actually pulled into the local early voting place and turned around and went back home, without leaving the car. Is there anyone out here that feels the way that I do, that is I don't like any 4 of the people running for office. None of them gives me a feeling of assurance and quite frankly I question all of their abilities to lead this country at such a pivotal time. McCain is a democrat, Obama is a more leftist democrat but more educated, Palin could very well be our next President should McLame pass on during office, and Bidon, what a joke, a lifer politician that will say anything for the vote. TERM LIMITS!!!
BTW- McCain is a lifer politician also another mark against him.

[muzhroom]

I am in the same boat with you. I am not voting. My vote was going to go to Dr. Ron Paul.

I like Obama but I would never vote for a ticket that big mouth Joe Biden is on.

[DiamondDog]

I like Ralph Nader but I know he'll never ever win.

[vittoria]

yup.

a pox on all of it

[FalconAngel]

You can't always find something to vote for, but you can always find something to vote against.

No matter what, you should cast your vote accordingly.

Whether you like the choices or not, you should cast your vote according to your conscience, but cast your vote. If you don't vote, then you have no right to complain.

[12voltman59]

You can't always find something to vote for, but you can always find something to vote against.

No matter what, you should cast your vote accordingly.

Whether you like the choices or not, you should cast your vote according to your conscience, but cast your vote. If you don't vote, then you have no right to complain.


Absolutely-and there are kids in Iraq and Afghanistan dying or getting maimed for life as we have to time to spend on the internet----in the name of "preserving freedom" and all that----so at least in their honor---if you can vote---you damn well sure as hell better vote--otherwise you don't have any right to bitch, piss and moan about the situation in the nation at all!!

At the very least---vote for "the lessor of two evils" if you feel this way about the candidates----but still VOTE---do not abdicate your responsibility as a citizen!!!!!

[Lienda]

.. McCain is a democrat...


Wait, I thought he was Republican. Not that I care, I'm independant voter. Personaly, I don't like anyone running, period. Best to not choose the one I like less than the other I suppose. I hate how the media feeds "race, gender, experiance, which will you choose" concept. Oh brother.

[eddy10]

If you do not like either of the two main candidates, vote Libertarian or Independent. BUT VOTE. Also, you can leave the "Pres" block empty but and vote for none of the above, yet be able to vote for for other offices down the line on the ballot.

[Falke]

Absolutely-and there are kids in Iraq and Afghanistan dying or getting maimed for life as we have to time to spend on the internet----in the name of "preserving freedom" and all that.


Source please.

Seriously, everyone keeps telling me about these innocents dying in both places like they are cows at the local slaughter house...yet no one seems to be able to back it up.


Anyhow, back on topic. I agree, there are no positives from where I sit. McCane isn't your typical republican, liberal on the things that should be conservative on *IE: protecting the second amendment* and against civil rights *IE abortion, fairness doctrine...yes...he was one of the original speerheads for this* The only bonus to putting him a president would be to jam up any stupid, unconsituional, self serving crap that comes from the senate (hopefully). Obama is too left for my tastes, once again he is known for voting for gun control and is wanting to take even more cash out of my pocket than is already coming out. *IE: on crap like this... http://obama.senate.gov/press/080213-obama_hagel_can_1/ * That and the company he keeps is abit unsavory...

So, once again, we are left to vote on which way we get to be screwed. Both sides have screwed us *Can you say Patriot Act...both sides voted it in!* and both canidates will say whatever it takes to get them in. Do you honestly think the US military will be pulled out within one year of Obama getting in *From the horse's mouth... he will not get the majority of troops out until 2010 and even then we will still have a presence there for counter terrorism warfare http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/* ...or even durring his term, or that the economy will instantly be fixed if McCane is put in office.

Oh well, I will leave you with what a wise man on another forum said: "The decision to vote for republican or democrat is the choise of which rights you want to loose next."

[jem_is_bi]

I actually pulled into the local early voting place and turned around and went back home, without leaving the car. Is there anyone out here that feels the way that I do, that is I don't like any 4 of the people running for office. None of them gives me a feeling of assurance and quite frankly I question all of their abilities to lead this country at such a pivotal time. McCain is a democrat, Obama is a more leftist democrat but more educated, Palin could very well be our next President should McLame pass on during office, and Bidon, what a joke, a lifer politician that will say anything for the vote. TERM LIMITS!!!
BTW- McCain is a lifer politician also another mark against him.

I am not a perfect person; they are not perfect presidential candidates and never will be. But, I am determined to vote for who I feel is the best choice to lead the country rather than just complain that I am not able to vote for my version of the perfect president. I bet my choice will get the job done. To hell with perfect, first, he needs to be a good administrator and second, he needs to do what is best for the country.
There is no third priority.
Given the recient destruction of the economic infrastructure that produce "real" goods and services and “war as a primary foreign policy tool” of the present administration, either candidate will be a great improvement. But, the one I vote for will do a much better job as president. I hope you can clear your thought processes and vote with the same enthusiasm. Whining about your plight without taking action just sucks!
But, wait! Maybe, I am too hasty and should not encouraging you to vote. If you don’t vote, maybe that helps my choice win!!! Besides, you would just rather complain about how all of us just do not have what it takes to recover from the present disaster. Well, the country has endured worse and I have been knocked on my ass multiple times in my life.
Nothing can keep me from getting back on my feet or keep me from using my feet to go vote for a president I believe will get the country off its’ ass as well as act with dignity and wisdom in both national and foreign affairs.

[ghytifrdnr]

You can't always find something to vote for, but you can always find something to vote against.

No matter what, you should cast your vote accordingly.

Whether you like the choices or not, you should cast your vote according to your conscience, but cast your vote. If you don't vote, then you have no right to complain.

I so disagree!
Implicit in the act of voting is acceptance of the result. Therefore, it's the voter who has no right to complain.
:2cents:

[Westwick]

Well said JEM. Politics in this country are rude. Americans hold their politicians up to super human standards and abandon them easily. No way would I want anyone I care about to be President. People just tear you down constantly. Criticism of policy is one thing, but relentless personal attacks demean the American people. Could any of us live under the media spotlight?

[12voltman59]

If things weren't so polarized and such at this time---we really need to go and do a major revamp of the system----and from what this one author said--who just had a book out on some of the founding fathers----they actually advocated and assumed that every so often---we would go and update things to meet current needs and such---but the way things are--we probably would just muck it up all the more---we sure don't have anyone of the caliber of our Founding Fathers, old Honest Abe, FDR, Eisenhower, Truman or a host of others----instead we have people like Pelosi, Reed, John Boehner, Michelle Bachmann and the rest----mere shadows of the great statesmen of the past.

I really do think we need to put in a system more along the lines of what most other "democracies" have---a multiparty system----and call the chief executive what you will--president or prime minister---he or she has to hold together a coalition government---and if he or she screws up--there is a vote of no confidence and the government, following a set procedure--is disbanded and new elections are called--it does work for the British, the Canadians, the Israelis and others----it sure as heck can work for us--I wish we had not thrown off all of the things of England as we did---

Canada may not be perfect---but it does seem to have done rather well---it is almost too bad we did not remain a part of the Commonwealth and had a more gradual weaning from our mother country instead of the way it happened----it almost seems that the violent nature of our begninning, sort of poisoned so many things since.

It was sorta a case of "bad karma" being set up--and now maybe all that stuff is gonnna dump on us now!! LOL

I really don't know how much longer we can effectively go on running things as we are now doing--and my god--if the election comes down to being a replay of 2000 and is contested--something that just very well might happen (it is being reported that both the Dems and Repubs have hired armies of lawyers, placing them in states that might become contested--to fight another election battle in the courts)----it really does drive a big nail in our coffin---we really will be not much more than a glorified "banana republic."

If that does happen--the sound you will hear will be the laughter of people like Hugo Chavez, the Castro brothers, and Osama Bin Laden all laughing their asses off at us!!!

[Randy from Pa]

I agree......IS THIS THE BEST THIS COUNTRY HAS TO OFFER AMERICANS? There should be a NEW party started.....The Blue Collar Party.....made up of hard working 40+ hrs a week Americans. NOT professional politicans....We need someone who knows what feels like living paycheck to paycheck....NOT millionaires...and NO there is not a true blue collar party in excitence at this time....and 1 more thing folks.....think about this....which ever Idiot/Liar gets in....we all have to worry about Nancy Pelosi she's 3RD in line for the presidency NOW THATS SCARY...... Just my :2cents: Randy

[AFTER9]

I'll throw a plug in here for Instant run off elections. Its where instead of picking a canidate you rank all of the candidates. That way you could still pick your choice of 3rd party candidates while still ranking the major candidate you prefer ahead of the one you don't.
http://www.fairvote.org/irv/faq.htm
And I'll point out real change will most likely occur from the bottom up not the top down. Get involved to make your local community a better place in some way shape or form. It's a start anyways.

[muzhroom]

I was going to vote for Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party but he is not on the ticket in our County. The ballots only have McLame or Obama.

I think Obama will be the way to go but man do I have issues with that rat Biden!

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I still think we should vote for Jeff Dunham's Peanut for president and have Maxine the Shoe Box Lady run as VP.
Hey, they make better sense than those that are running now!

I'm Toni "Cat" Minx, and I've approved this message...lmao :tongue:

[Bluebiyou]

Stop fooling around.
Harry Truman. He's the man.

[ziggybabie]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a349/judahverrecke/election08.jpg

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Uhmm Ziggy? is that a pissed off Cow, hon? lol
Silly Cat

[FalconAngel]

I so disagree!
Implicit in the act of voting is acceptance of the result. Therefore, it's the voter who has no right to complain.
:2cents:

How do you come by that?
The voter, who participates in the electoral process, is the one who decides, NOT the non-voter, who abstains from the electoral process, effectively surrendering his/her right and responsibility to vote.

Failure to participate in the electoral process, when you are able to, automatically implies that you don't care who gets elected and therefore have no right to complain about who gets elected because you, the voter, made no effort to place in office the person who you think is the best suited.

Therefore, because the voter has the right to complain, whether they voted for the guy who wins or the guy who loses.

If things go to hell, like they have been, the guy who won has let down his country and, equally important, the voters who voted for him. ALL of those voters have the right to complain about him, not just the voters who voted against him.

[frikidiki]

Source please.

Seriously, everyone keeps telling me about these innocents dying in both places like they are cows at the local slaughter house...yet no one seems to be able to back it up.

I understood the "kids" referred to in the post you are replying to as referring to our troops. If you don't believe this is happening, you should come to San Antonio and visit one of our lovely military hospitals and rehab centers.


Chthulu 2008...

LMFAO! That was a good one.

[Falke]

I understood the "kids" referred to in the post you are replying to as referring to our troops. If you don't believe this is happening, you should come to San Antonio and visit one of our lovely military hospitals and rehab centers.


No arguements on that one, as I know several whom have been there. However, the ones I know were proud to have done it!

I was under the impression the "Kids" he was speaking of were literally kids, which many are accusing our troops as killing innocent people. However, no one can seem to back up this claim.

[lowcountry22]

I just don't understand what you people want...

You have a candidate here in Barack Obama who has inspired millions who never cared to vote before to get registered...an American from humble beginnings who never knew his father, yet through hard work rose to the top of his class at Harvard...a man who truly represents the American Dream and whose story could only happen in America...who is the perfect antidote to 8 years of a destructive presidency that has seen a major terrorist attack on our country's soil, the drowning of a city, 2 awful wars, including one fought on false pretenses, and an economic crisis...a man who is articulate, steady, measured, and level-headed...and most of all, a man who inspires hope, which is something the poisonous McCain/Palin campaign, with its lies and divisiveness could never hope to do.

The choice is clear to me.

[Westwick]

lowcounty22, you are right on. We may wind up with a great president, at least it is a possibility. McCain might make a good one, but no possiblity for greatness I can see. Obama inspires me too. Maybe he will flounder, but then maybe he won't!

BTW, I like your mind, and your cock.

[anda692]

I really do think we need to put in a system more along the lines of what most other "democracies" have---a multiparty system----and call the chief executive what you will--president or prime minister---he or she has to hold together a coalition government---and if he or she screws up--there is a vote of no confidence and the government, following a set procedure--is disbanded and new elections are called--it does work for the British, the Canadians, the Israelis and others----it sure as heck can work for us--I wish we had not thrown off all of the things of England as we did---

While pointing out that this system seems to work for some, you seem to forget that it doesn't always work well. Italy went through goverments at a rate of a couple a year for a time after WW2. England threw out Churchhill right after the war. Other examples also come to mind.
I don't believe that this system works very well without a multiparty system that works. The terms of office for the Prime Minister is usually about 6 years and if the party in power holds a majority, there are fewer checks on the power. And on new elections in sight.
So although I have issues with the present system, I like it better than the others offered. Elections, whether I like the choices or not, are regular and offers us a chance to vote the bastards out. And there is gaming of the parlementary system, we just don't always hear of it.
The real threat to the democracy is two-fold. The non-counting of votes, and the act of making your vote meaningless. Non-counting of votes has occured for years, but the new electronic machines make it easier to steal an election. Making your vote meaningless happens on the lower levels. House seats and state elections, where voting districts are drawn in a matter that the election of a party is assured by using the regestration data. Makes for good job security for them, but bad government for us.
As for me , in this election, I am voting to throw the bastards out. New party in the white house and no incumbent will get my vote. New people can't make it worse and may make it better.

[canuckotter]

--it does work for the British, the Canadians, the Israelis and others----

... not so much, actually. ;) Well, I can't comment about Britain or Israel, but in Canada, we've got a first-past-the-post system that's slowly turning into a two-party race. Probably as a result, support is slowly building for a revamp, and a move towards some form of proportional representation.

As for the American elections... Y'know, I just don't understand this bullshit of "I don't agree with everything the guy says, so he sucks." How many of you actually believe that both candidates would do more harm than good? Hell, I actively dislike what McCain's turned himself into in the last year, but I still think he'd be an OK President. (Palin, on the other hand... If you need one good reason to vote Obama, just remember that the odds are 1 in 3 that McCain will be dead of natural causes in the next 4 years. :eek: )

[Not2str8]

To all of you who are "sitting this one out",

I greatly appreciate the faith you have placed in me to make decisions that will deeply and profoundly affect your life. In deciding not to vote, you are ceding to me the ability to run your life. Do you really trust me with that awesome power ? I don't trust you with it. That's why I vote. That's why I volunteer. The candidates that remain in this race are not my favorites and were not my first choice, but I refuse to sit on the sidelines and let others choose my destiny without any input from me. I will grant you that it is your perfect right not to vote, but why anyone would choose to make such a destructive decision is beyond my ability to comprehend. The outcome of the current election has ramifications far beyond our shores. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that this is the most crucial election in our lifetime. Crucial for the world economy, crucial for how the rest of the world sees us, crucial for our personal liberties, crucial for deciding how the most powerful government on Earth will deal with an ever-changing world and all it's problems, crucial for whether or not we will remain hostage to Middle Eastern oil producers who can crush us by turning off the oil spigot, crucial even down to the point of whether or not you will have health insurance. And you're "too cool for school" and gonna sit this one out because your favorite candidate didn't rise to the top ?!?! (Guess what...he or she never will, with support like your's.) Well, all I can say is that I hope your faith in me to run your life is well founded. I'll try to make the right decisions for you, since you won't make them for yourselves. (Angry ? Nope....just stunned that we as citizens have become so fat, lazy, and complacent that we have abdicated our responsibility to make our country into what we want it to be. Other people aren't going to do it...YOU must do it.) If you can't look at the stark differences between these two candidates and choose which one will help or hurt you, you simply aren't paying attention.

I'm Not2str8 and I approved this message.

[12voltman59]

To all of you who are "sitting this one out",

I greatly appreciate the faith you have placed in me to make decisions that will deeply and profoundly affect your life. In deciding not to vote, you are ceding to me the ability to run your life. Do you really trust me with that awesome power ? I don't trust you with it. That's why I vote. That's why I volunteer. The candidates that remain in this race are not my favorites and were not my first choice, but I refuse to sit on the sidelines and let others choose my destiny without any input from me. I will grant you that it is your perfect right not to vote, but why anyone would choose to make such a destructive decision is beyond my ability to comprehend. The outcome of the current election has ramifications far beyond our shores. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that this is the most crucial election in our lifetime. Crucial for the world economy, crucial for how the rest of the world sees us, crucial for our personal liberties, crucial for deciding how the most powerful government on Earth will deal with an ever-changing world and all it's problems, crucial for whether or not we will remain hostage to Middle Eastern oil producers who can crush us by turning off the oil spigot, crucial even down to the point of whether or not you will have health insurance. And you're "too cool for school" and gonna sit this one out because your favorite candidate didn't rise to the top ?!?! (Guess what...he or she never will, with support like your's.) Well, all I can say is that I hope your faith in me to run your life is well founded. I'll try to make the right decisions for you, since you won't make them for yourselves. (Angry ? Nope....just stunned that we as citizens have become so fat, lazy, and complacent that we have abdicated our responsibility to make our country into what we want it to be. Other people aren't going to do it...YOU must do it.) If you can't look at the stark differences between these two candidates and choose which one will help or hurt you, you simply aren't paying attention.

I'm Not2str8 and I approved this message.

BRAVO!!!!!! 'Nuff Said!!!!!! Great Job!!!!!

[rissababynta]

If I was voting this year, I would be voting for Obama.

But...

I felt the same exact way as you last election. I was actually waiting on line with my husband, was almost to the voting booth, and left to go sit in the car because is wasn't worth the tension if I didn't want to vote for either.

[speedofan]

I am also disgruntled, depressed, disillusioned, and damned angry at ALL of them. We have some serious messes in this country, and neither candidate has provided the (1) information that I need to make an informed decision about who will best pull us out of the fire, and (2) inspired me to go stand in line to vote for him.

But, I do believe that voting is one of the few things that are required of voting age Americans. So, I will hold my nose, and pull the lever.

As long as all we have to choose from is the lesser of two evils, we will continue to get the government we deserve. And don't get me started on Congress. They all have to go. That means the ones from here too. Not just Pelosi, Frank, Schumer, and the others, but Chambliss, De Mint, Shelby, and those others too.

It's time to start over. Not just bounce some of the bums. All of them.

[TaylorMade]

I admit I went into it knowing I didn't like either of them , but voted for the one I disliked least. I know that's what you get with a two party system. . .

It would be nice for the US to go multi-party, and I think both the Donks and the Pubbies have enough invested in '08 for the loser to go fractal, which may just be a good thing.

But I voted against enshrining straight marriage in the Fl Constitution, so... go me for keeping my LBGT cred.

:rolleyes:

*Taylor*

[Doggie_Wood]

I so disagree!
Implicit in the act of voting is acceptance of the result. Therefore, it's the voter who has no right to complain.
:2cents:

I can see your point of view but I must admit it is flawed and scewed.
Falcon said the right thing. If you don't vote, don't complain. If you do vote and the results aren't to your liking, then put YOUR ass up there in the next election.

Chu - I am so disappointed in your unwillingness to vote. Depsite the fact that there really aren't any candidates that I liked either, I voted for the one that could beet the one I don't want to be our next president. If you vote for anyone other that the two major candidates, you are in essence voting for the one that you really don't want to win. :2cents:

:doggie:

[fairbankswingers]

All I will say is use extreme caution when saying anything negative about BHO as if he wins you may end up in a prison camp for speaking out against him…look what happened to “Joe the Plumber” and how the left has ruined this citizen’s life over asking BHO a simple question…BHO wins you had better be ready to lose your freedoms…freedom of gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion…trust me BHO and his friends are ready to take over the United States and become dictators….Hitler started into power in this manner…history my friends history…mark my word BHO is DANGEROUS...I am a moderate...middle of the road guy and hate extremism on both sides, however it seems it has really went far left with BHO (e.g. ACORN, joe the plumber...) kinda scary:cool:

[AFTER9]

All I will say is use extreme caution when saying anything negative about BHO as if he wins you may end up in a prison camp for speaking out against him…look what happened to “Joe the Plumber” and how the left has ruined this citizen’s life over asking BHO a simple question…BHO wins you had better be ready to lose your freedoms…freedom of gun ownership, freedom of speech, freedom of religion…trust me BHO and his friends are ready to take over the United States and become dictators….Hitler started into power in this manner…history my friends history…mark my word BHO is DANGEROUS...I am a moderate...middle of the road guy and hate extremism on both sides, however it seems it has really went far left with BHO (e.g. ACORN, joe the plumber...) kinda scary:cool:


To me these statements seem as "extremism" as any of the robocalls or mass mailings I've recieved from the Republican Party this week. Sorry not going to scare me by that or anything those crazy guys on right wing radio spout. I hope a large majority of voters will see right through these silly and most likely futile attacks on the leading candidate.

[TaylorMade]

To me these statements seem as "extremism" as any of the robocalls or mass mailings I've recieved from the Republican Party this week. Sorry not going to scare me by that or anything those crazy guys on right wing radio spout. I hope a large majority of voters will see right through these silly and most likely futile attacks on the leading candidate.

That's not on the same level as this....--------------> Government Computers Used to Look for information on Joe the Plumber (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/24/joe.html?sid=101) THAT is what an attack looks like. Give me Robocalls and mailings anyday over that.

THAT makes me uncomfortable...It may not be directly connected with Obama's campaign, but the mocking and unwarranted scrutiny one guy went through on one single question feels a little Castro-lite to me. It may not be prison camps (which IS an exaggeration, no doubt), but I do question Sen. Obama on the 2nd amendment. History does repeat. Sen. Obama wants us to believe that he is the Democrat's Regan - -but I think he will be Jimmy Carter part deux - -a good man in way over his head.

*Taylor*

[Doggie_Wood]

with Robocalls you can hang up ....... and
with mass mailings, you can recycle.

:doggie:

[TaylorMade]

with Robocalls you can hang up ....... and
with mass mailings, you can recycle.

:doggie:

That's about the size of it.

*Taylor*

[Lateralus]

Obama had nothing to do with the "attacks" on Joe the plumber. It was McCain who made mention of him, and it was the media that found a real guy named Joe, that was a plumber (eventhough his name isn't Joe and he's technically not a plumber...lol). I'm no Obama zealot, but both men are in way over their heads, not to mention Sarah Palin. As far as i'm concerned McCain is a good guy that chose to sell his soul to the extreme right. These people want to make the U.S. the Christian version of Saudi Arabia. That's why McCain is not ahead in the polls. The majority of us don't want a Christian Taliban.

P.S. I don't like any of them either.

[TaylorMade]

Obama had nothing to do with the "attacks" on Joe the plumber. It was McCain who made mention of him, and it was the media that found a real guy named Joe, that was a plumber (eventhough his name isn't Joe and he's technically not a plumber...lol). I'm no Obama zealot, but both men are in way over their heads, not to mention Sarah Palin. As far as i'm concerned McCain is a good guy that chose to sell his soul to the extreme right. These people want to make the U.S. the Christian version of Saudi Arabia. That's why McCain is not ahead in the polls. The majority of us don't want a Christian Taliban.

P.S. I don't like any of them either.

I pointed out that Sen. Obama was not directly involved - -but Sen. Obama did approach him first to ask that question. Sen. Obama flubbed the answer and McCain jumped on it. Politics as usual.

The guy goes by his middle name and is an apprentice plumber. It's not perfect truth, but it's close if you use hand grenades as your standard.

I don't even think the Right wants a Christian Taliban - - I think that's an exaggeration of a fringe position. It's like saying the Left wants a new Socialist State. (Sorry, socialists on the board who DO want a socialist state.)

And Sen. Obama isn't ahead by much - - It will be a tight race, no doubt.

The true question is... will the screw-up-state be Florida or Ohio?

*Taylor*

[charmed_goddess87]

I just don't understand what you people want...

You have a candidate here in Barack Obama who has inspired millions who never cared to vote before to get registered...an American from humble beginnings who never knew his father, yet through hard work rose to the top of his class at Harvard...a man who truly represents the American Dream and whose story could only happen in America...who is the perfect antidote to 8 years of a destructive presidency that has seen a major terrorist attack on our country's soil, the drowning of a city, 2 awful wars, including one fought on false pretenses, and an economic crisis...a man who is articulate, steady, measured, and level-headed...and most of all, a man who inspires hope, which is something the poisonous McCain/Palin campaign, with its lies and divisiveness could never hope to do.

The choice is clear to me.

*Claps For Low and Not2str8*

I may not like the choices but heres the way I looked at it, My vote will be based on VP. I DONT want Palin in office, I feel shes a idiot and would ruin this country. McCain only picked her because he thought he might bring in more women voters since he picked a women VP. My gut feeling is McCain's old ass is gonna die while in term and we will be stuck with her. So THINK about that.

And Obama has inspired MANY people to register and vote and Im happy about that, Im also happy that he incouraged MY generation to get off our asses and VOTE! Im so happy to see my generation finally stepping up to the plate. MTV and VH1 have been TRYING for the past 8 years to get young adults to vote and I think this year that number has gone up because of MTV and Because of Obama.

This WILL be a tight race. and I hope the best man wins.

And for those who DONT vote, I dont wanna hear you bitching because the wrong man won. You should have went and voted! Your vote could have counted and made the person you thought was the best choice win.

Theres my :2cents:

And For Those of You Who Havent Seen This, I think you should, Its kinda funny if you ask me lol.

http://www.mccainfreewhitehouse.org/

~Charmed Goddess~

[Lateralus]

I pointed out that Sen. Obama was not directly involved - -but Sen. Obama did approach him first to ask that question. Sen. Obama flubbed the answer and McCain jumped on it. Politics as usual.

The guy goes by his middle name and is an apprentice plumber. It's not perfect truth, but it's close if you use hand grenades as your standard.

I don't even think the Right wants a Christian Taliban - - I think that's an exaggeration of a fringe position. It's like saying the Left wants a new Socialist State. (Sorry, socialists on the board who DO want a socialist state.)

And Sen. Obama isn't ahead by much - - It will be a tight race, no doubt.

The true question is... will the screw-up-state be Florida or Ohio?

*Taylor*

If they don't want a Christian Taliban, then why are they consistently trying to overturn people's rights, regulate the internet, censor certain books from the library, push to teach creationism in schools, etc? I understand that Obama isn't ahead by much, but IMO he shouldn't be ahead at all against someone who was so well respected as McCain was/is. The problem is McCain sold his soul to Bush and the extreme right, now he's paying for it.

[TaylorMade]

If they don't want a Christian Taliban, then why are they consistently trying to overturn people's rights, regulate the internet, censor certain books from the library, push to teach creationism in schools, etc? I understand that Obama isn't ahead by much, but IMO he shouldn't be ahead at all against someone who was so well respected as McCain was/is. The problem is McCain sold his soul to Bush and the extreme right, now he's paying for it.

To compare the Christian Right to the Taliban either tells me you don't know much about the taliban or the Christian Right. So far, they haven't succeeded, so either they aren't very powerful (my choice here) or they're doing it so subtly we can't even tell.

Well, when you consider who's really on Sen. Obama's side (http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1001/campaign-media), it's suprising it is that close.

I can think of at least 20-30 people who are card carrying members of the GOP and are planning on writing in a candidate. If McCain sold his soul to the extreme right, he got a bad bargain, because many are saying he isn't right enough.

*Taylor*

[FalconAngel]

To compare the Christian Right to the Taliban either tells me you don't know much about the taliban or the Christian Right. So far, they haven't succeeded, so either they aren't very powerful (my choice here) or they're doing it so subtly we can't even tell.

You would be surprised how many subtle changes to our world; our society have been made throughout just the past 25 years.
Even the last 8.

We have lost many of our constitutional guarantees because of right wing Christian thinking. The first inroads that right wing Christianity made into our government was when, under the era of McCarthyism and the communist menace, they put in the words "under God" in the pledge of Allegiance.
They keep insisting that this is a Christian nation because of that, completely ignoring the fact that, the Baptist minister that wrote it intentionally left out those two words. They still fight today to force church doctrine on the rest of the country. Things like anti-abortion choice laws and idiotic ideas like the ill-concieved "defense of marriage act". And look how those same neocon nutjobs continue to pander to those same right wing Christians. They do want a Christian theocracy and they will continue to try as long as they have "friends" in power.

I firmly believe that there are few people in this country that really understand what the two most important documents in our country; the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States, really say to us about our freedoms. Then we can better understand, as a nation, what liberties we need to get back and why we need them now, more than ever.

We have had eight years of a president that flouted the law, his responsibilities as president, to the people, and has worked to disassemble the rights that so many of us served, and some still serve, to protect.

And now, this country could put in office another president just like the one we are finally getting rid of. No, he isn't Bush, but he sure does think and vote like him.
Do we really need another oathbreaker?

We all need to understand our rights. But those rights come with a responsibility; that responsibility is to do everything that we can to protect those rights for ourselves and our children and our children's children. We all need to defend those rights through our vote. For if we do not, then those rights will have to be regained through our blood.

If that sounds extreme, then look at history. It will prove that either rights are protected or they end up being fought to gain. Just look at the War of Independence if no one believes me.

[macman885]

It amazes me how many on this post are speaking favorably of BHO because he has "inspired" millions. Let me remind everyone of two other heads of state who inspired millions. Hitler for one and he wasn't very good for Germany or the world. JFK was another and even though he wasn't in office long enough to know how his full term presidency would have been remembered by history we do know that he spent money like a drunken sailor ( this is my major issue with Bush, and Barney Frank has already said that if BHO wins and the Dem's get a supermajority in congress then they are going to dramaticaly increase spending)

Choosing a president isn't about who is inspiring or who is more charismatic or better looking (I think BHO is kinda hot) it is about issues. Who do you think has the best blueprint for America going forward (and I want details)

And now I will get off my soapbox

[incox]

[u so much, You're playing my song!!!! Obama is the best choice/
You have a candidate here in Barack Obama who has inspired millions who never cared to vote before to get registered...an American from humble beginnings who never knew his father, yet through hard work rose to the top of his class at Harvard...a man who truly represents the American Dream and whose story could only happen in America...who is the perfect antidote to 8 years of a destructive presidency that has seen a major terrorist attack on our country's soil, the drowning of a city, 2 awful wars, including one fought on false pretenses, and an economic crisis...a man who is articulate, steady, measured, and level-headed...and most of all, a man who inspires hope, which is something the poisonous McCain/Palin campaign, with its lies and divisiveness could never hope to do.

The choice is clear to me.[/QUOTE]Thank you so much, you have articulated what I want to express. Obama is the clear and best choice!

[FalconAngel]

It suddenly occured to me that, since the Republicans are making such a big deal out of the fact that Obama has an Arabic middle name, thus associating him with terrorists by virtue of his name and father's home country, that I would point out another famous American in a similar situation.

They called him "Gus"; Virgil I. "Gus" Grissom.

He was one of the original mercury astronauts, flew Gemini missions and died in the Apollo 1 disaster.
All in a time when we were in the middle of a cold war with the "Red Menace", Russia. Virgil Grissom's middle name? IVAN. Nice Russian name. Did that make him a commie? No, but since so many want to make false assumptions based on a name, It would be prudent to consider all of the facts.

Just think about it. That's all I'm asking.

[ghytifrdnr]

How do you come by that?
The voter, who participates in the electoral process, is the one who decides, NOT the non-voter, who abstains from the electoral process, effectively surrendering his/her right and responsibility to vote.

Failure to participate in the electoral process, when you are able to, automatically implies that you don't care who gets elected and therefore have no right to complain about who gets elected because you, the voter, made no effort to place in office the person who you think is the best suited.

Therefore, because the voter has the right to complain, whether they voted for the guy who wins or the guy who loses.

If things go to hell, like they have been, the guy who won has let down his country and, equally important, the voters who voted for him. ALL of those voters have the right to complain about him, not just the voters who voted against him.

OK, let me correct myself, EVERYBODY has a right to complain. It's one of those unalienable rights.

But I stand by my statement that participating in the electoral process presupposes acceptance of the result. Otherwise the losing side would always go to war.

It would be easier for me to take part in this whole thing if I had the opportunity to vote for someone I liked rather than being forced into choosing the lesser of two evils. My view is that voting for the lesser of two evils is, nontheless, VOTING FOR EVIL. I just can't do that.

:(

[ghytifrdnr]

Here's an alternative viewpoint. It's pretty much where I'm coming from.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Mock-the-Vote-by-David-Heleniak-081024-380.html
:2cents:

[ghytifrdnr]

....and for those whose minds aren't already frozen into the approved paradigm, here's a lot more to read on the same subject:

http://www.strike-the-root.com/vote.html

[chulainn2]

I might have been misleading when I said I went back home when I started this thread. I just didn't feel like voting that day for any of these people. I did not mean to imply that I was not going to vote. I did vote this week, we have early voting in Texas, but I left without any warm fuzzies. I would never not vote, I feel that is a sacred right given to us by our constitution.
Regardless of who wins, next year may very well be one of the worst years that I have lived through. But then again, we are still better off than most countries.

[Doggie_Wood]

:bowdown: to Chulain
(now will you sneek up behind me and ........ nm)


:doggie:

[FalconAngel]

OK, let me correct myself, EVERYBODY has a right to complain. It's one of those unalienable rights.

But I stand by my statement that participating in the electoral process presupposes acceptance of the result. Otherwise the losing side would always go to war.

It would be easier for me to take part in this whole thing if I had the opportunity to vote for someone I liked rather than being forced into choosing the lesser of two evils. My view is that voting for the lesser of two evils is, nontheless, VOTING FOR EVIL. I just can't do that.

:(

Okay. That, we can agree with; Particularly the part of having more choices. This country did not always have only 2 parties to pick from. We are not meant to have so few choices, but greed and power-mongering by politicians over the decades, has allowed it to happen.

We should have more parties and candidates to pick from. There are people out there that are better for this country out there, but, in the end, their very good ideas will fall by the wayside because of party politics and party polarization.

[ghytifrdnr]

Okay. That, we can agree with; Particularly the part of having more choices. This country did not always have only 2 parties to pick from. We are not meant to have so few choices, but greed and power-mongering by politicians over the decades, has allowed it to happen.

We should have more parties and candidates to pick from. There are people out there that are better for this country out there, but, in the end, their very good ideas will fall by the wayside because of party politics and party polarization.

I read a thing a couple of weeks ago that claimed the "two party system" is a natural result of our winner-take-all elections. When one winner gets all the marbles, the chances of winning decreases with an increasing number of candidates. The writer said that if we had elections with 'proportional representation' there would be a multitude of parties.

[FalconAngel]

The best one I heard was last night on Letterman.

Alec Baldwin was on and he called them McBush and Bible Spice for McCain and Palin.

It was a pretty accurate descriptive, really.

[darkeyes]

I read a thing a couple of weeks ago that claimed the "two party system" is a natural result of our winner-take-all elections. When one winner gets all the marbles, the chances of winning decreases with an increasing number of candidates. The writer said that if we had elections with 'proportional representation' there would be a multitude of parties.
Hav lotsa sympathy for the idea a PR for elections.. variations of it r used all ova the world.. an 2 sum degree even in the UK such as for Scottish, Welsh an Northern Ireland A Parliaments an Assemblies...in UK elections its the ole 1st past the post an mosta our MPs in the UK parliament r elected on much less than haff the votes cast.. unlike the US tho we hav a multitude a parties in Parliament, partly cosa the fact that the UK is 4 nations, not a single entity, an history an demographics hav determined that we currently hav Labour, Tory, Lib dem, Scots, Welsh an Irish Nationalists, Ulster unionist parties a 1 sort or otha an the occasional otha odd an sod...

It is howeva a fact that reely only 3 parties hav reel numbas at Westminster, those bein the 1st 3 me mentioned, cos they r the only 3 who because a party history an policy r represent peeps throughout the UK, save of course for Northern Ireland wich is a whole diff kettla fish... the Tories do hav representation a sorts ther but they r pretty marginal... of that 3.. the reality is that only the Tories an Labour ova the las century hav formed govts cosa that self same 1st past the post system.. Blairs 1st govt had a majority of 160 ova all otha parties or so on 42% a the vote... Thatcher in er time did much the same, an thats how its been in the UK for bout a century... so r we a multi party democracy??? Arguable since only 2 parties hav ne reel chance a winnin power... tho othas do hav ther representation an say, howeva limited ther influence...

The national elections a Scotland Northern Ireland an Wales r diff bein run on a system of STV (the single transferable vote) on a list sytem mixed wiv 1st past the post... in Scotland an Wales for instance, the winner takes all aspect ensures a huge Labour representation in those parliaments, but the STV part means that it is hugely difficult for ne party 2 attain a majority ova all otha parties... in Scotland the govt is run by a minority nationalist regime an in Wales the assembly, by a minority Labour govt. But this system wich does employ a PR aspect means that instead of only ther bein 3 or 4 parties in each assmebly ther r many more... in Scotland an Wales, the Tories for instance who r almos unable to win a seat unda 1st past the post for Westminster hav a healthy representation in those parliaments... weras Labour who hav always had the majority of Westminster seats in those countries hav almos no hope of eva gainin a majority an mus rely on coalition support or runnin as do the SNP now in Scotland, a minority govt.... wot it has also dun is 2 allow the Greens for instance sum small representation in those bodies weras for Westminster they hav almos no hope unda 1st past the post...

Ther is no doubt unda a system of PR or STV, that the US wud hav a vastly different political complexion than it has now.. Ther is usually a minimum vote percentage unda PR below wich small parties r denied representation.. in Germany for instance me thinks its 5%.. slap me if me rong.. this is usually dun 2 stop crank parties from gettin a toehold in parliament..tho it don stop racist or parties a the extreme of all political complexions from sum from gettin seats... an so hav a say in how nations r run.. howeva minimal..

Am not pushin ne system a representative democracy on yas, not ere rite now ne way..not advocatin ne particular electoral system... do think winner takes all stinks, yet can c ther r many probs wiv woteva systam a PR, STV or a mixture of em can throw up.. less hope a majority govt, arguably weaker less decisive govt, minority parties waggin the dog, parliamentary disruption by parties a the extreme, increased racism within the legislature.. an arguably can cause national divisions wich many wud h8 2 c.. advantages r that ther will no longa b huge monolithic parties who rule almos by divine rite an ther will b much more representation a minority opinions in Congress wich shud in theory at least, if not in fact lessen voter disenchantment.. ther will almos certainly remain dominant parties.. but they will no longer hav that absolute pre-eminence wich they hav had hitherto... that 2 a gr8 extent is wy ther has neva been ne serious attempt in eitha the US or the UK 2 change the electoral system away from that wich exists now for Congressional or Parliamentary elections..

For the gud a the democratic process summat has 2 change.. but 2 wot has stretched the minds a gr8er peeps than ne of us will eva b.. ya pays ya money an ya makes ya choice... an the Republicans an Democrats in the US, an Labour and Tories in the UK hav made thers.. an it'll take a helluva push by citizens 2 get em 2 giv up the power they hold by retainin the current systems... an elections turnouts droppin 2 50, 40 or even less %ages a the electoral rolls won do it...

[**Peg**]

just one word:

wow

http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/results

[12voltman59]

Well-I did vote in early voting----it will be interesting to see how those votes come out----I don't think they are getting factored into the current polling at all.

I have made it pretty well clear that I am no fan of George W. Bush and think his time in office has been a disaster---well---Chimp and Co seem to have to put their imprint on things for years to come.

While it is something that does tend to be done by outgoing presidents----the Bush administration has set out a record number of rules changes that run the gamut, from food and worker safety, to air and water quality---his people have a set of new rules and such going in before they leave the stage that will greatly loosen many of these rules to be more favorable to companies and less so for workers, the environment and the like----and they also say--the way the rules are being implemented---its going to be tough for a new President and Congress to change what they are doing.

I say this to Bush----have you people not fucked things up well enough???? Do you have to leave us an entire new set of things that have your fingerprints all over them that are not much good for anyone----save those who own businesses and make a killing on screwing everyone and everything over?????


Some examples that have been cited----the operators of the companies blasting away the mountains in places like West Virginia--to be granted even more exemptions from dumping the trailings and from remediation of the decimated mountains-----and one rule that makes it harder for those receiving government health care assistance from having acess to or information about contraceptives.


To me----when you look at the definition of "evil" in the dictionary----a new entry features George Bush as exemplifying a living example of evil!! :bigrin::bigrin:

The guy just does not give up!!!

It is going to be years until the lingering legacy of the George W. Bush Administraton is finally wiped away and put in the "dustbin of history!" where it so justly belongs.

[JustaguyIndy]

just one word:

wow

http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/results

Yeah, this is great. And now we know which countries to avoid, too! America will lose even more of its standing if the hatemongers continue their reign of terror.

[_Joe_]

* shrugs *

the website seems flawed Peg.

Not even a million votes, thats not many votes for "The rest of the world" in my opinion.

[darkeyes]

Yeah, this is great. And now we know which countries to avoid, too! America will lose even more of its standing if the hatemongers continue their reign of terror.

...anya can tell that by lookin at this poll jus how canya tell me???:rolleyes:

[FalconAngel]

One of the things that Bush II (sorry, meant McCain) has done throughout the campaign is to build the entire base of his campaign on fear. There was another, previously mentioned, world leaders did the same thing to gain power and to develop more power......it was Adolph Hitler; And we all know what happened when he took power.
Schwaravasser (Blackwater) was one of the organizations that he created to work as one of his "security" organizations.
He created fear and hatred of Jews to help boost his country's economy as well as to create an enemy that the "pure" German people could get behind. Is any of this beginning to sound familiar to anyone?

Maybe a couple of lines from the first and last chapters of "1984";

"We are at war with the East. We have always been at war with the East." Chapter 1.

"We are at war with the West. We have always been at war with the West" Last line of the final chapter.

Police states maintain power using fear-mongering and propaganda. Just like the McBush and biblethumper Barbie campaign has been doing.

I have yet to hear or see a single ad for their campaign that has a positive message. They all say the same thing......."vote for "me" or there will be terrible things that come".

Fear-mongering. That is how totalitarian regimes are built, not how democracies stay free.

We did early voting and voted for the guy that gives us hope without trying to create, out of whole cloth, an enemy to have to fight.

A vote against McBush and Bible-thumper Barbie is a vote for a free and democratic United States of America.

[jem_is_bi]

We, in Michigan, do not have early voting. But, I will be in line for as long as it takes on Tuesday. I hope my choice does much better than my previous choices for president. My choice has almost always been the loser. My only, win was Carter and he was not a good president (borderline awful). So, I hope my choice wins and vindicates my belief that he will be a good president.

[ghytifrdnr]

My parting shot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKguI0NFek

:tongue: