Remember this time in history

[12voltman59]

I think we have reached one of those points in history that at some point---looking back many years later we say to our grandkids or others of those of another, younger generation---"I remember when..."

In this case--I think it will be the beginning of what might turn out to be another "Great Depression"--the evidence is now strong that this is happening---stock markets all over the world are now heading for the sub-sub-basement----

I hope I am wrong--but like a sailor that sees "red sky in the morning" and a sharply falling barometer--with rising winds and seas--it is time to batten down the hatches and get ready to ride the heavy weather we are going to face and say a little prayer---"May you watch over my little ship and its crew!!"

I do think we are entering a very down economic period---of a sort not seen in 3/4 of a century---

Get ready folks----"Here she blows!!"


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081010/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27107914/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27112481/

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business/11markets.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

http://www.economist.com/

Just some light reading to cheer you up as a new day dawns!!

[Bluebiyou]

Lord,
It may help us, as a national society, perhaps as a global society, become more caring and humanist.
We may (in America) have families living together again, knowing neighbors, performing senseless deeds of kindness...
We knew this was coming and overdue.

[darkeyes]

If it wasn't for the fact that millions were suffering and threatened with all sorts of legal and social misery because of all this mess I would be laughing my head off. As it continues its downward spiral this "crisis of capitalism" will ultimately hurt billions and there will be no place on earth left untouched by the chaos and economic catastrophe facing us all.. we hear of bale outs and watch as governements struggle to prop up a discredited system and discredited managers of the system.. no apologies, no regrets for the misery caused, merely desperate attempts to prop up and revive the system and people which and who got us in this mess in the first place. This is no mere hiccup.. no simple adjustment in the system..it is wholesale meltdown and its worst effects are yet to be felt.

Inside of me, there is a perverted pleasure at the discomfiture and humiliations suffered by governments, people and institutions which have now brought us to this sad state, but that is without doubt tempered by the fact that so many of the less well off and the poorer nations of the planet will undoubtedly be the main victims. Those with power and wealth will, in the main, survive relatively unscathed if somewhat chastened, although in relative terms possibly a little less wealthy and hopefully a lot less powerful.

Yet the system such as it is will survive, chastenened and modified no doubt in some way to make it on the surface at least, more compassionate, less ruthless and more responsible to the ordinary pleb at the bottom of the ladder.. it will get itself a makeover, and in a few years as things pick up there will be those who are just too relieved to have gotten out of the mire to worry or care whether the capitalist system has survived or not..yet it is damaged..not fatally and much of its ruin will be repaired.. but it has been weakened. Its reputation as a system and those who propound and defend it have been irreperably damaged and the changes it will have to make will weaken its capacity to dominate our world in the long term. Most of us will not notice that, but there will be more clever people than any of us who will not miss it...

[AFTER9]

Just trying to tune out most of it myself. Not that I don't care. Just want to stay emotionally strong enough to spot the opportunities that do present themselves in todays world.

[12voltman59]

The thing is about all of this---we will survive and go on with our lives if things really do go bad to the extreme--we will find our new versions of what is "normal."

Actually too---in some ways---it might be a good thing if the way we have been doing things finally has become a major trainwreck---we could only sustain this insanity for a certain amount of time.

We had to have a reckoning at some point---face the music and get past it----then go on to bigger and better things--and hopefully---we will then live with a bit more humility--and figure out that we don't need a house full of expensive things like high end plasma TVs, custom kitchens with the top name appliances, etc.--- things that whiile cool and fun---are not that vital to living a good life--and in reality is just so much "shit" that we paid wwwwwaaaayyyy too much money for, especially if we maxed out the credit cards to buy them!!!

[AFTER9]

In my last post I thought out loud about being able to recognize the upcoming opportunities.
The flip side of that is keeping eyes wide open to avoid the traps. Although I steered clear of the real estate crisis I was harmed by the credit card industry and their bag of tricks. Also by medical insurance and that industry and their ways of getting a healthy reasonably young person to pay them large sums of money.
As people get scared even desperate who's going to profit? And How?
And how do I keep them out of my life?

[HighEnergy]

I was talking to my sister last night and we were talking about having some extra money in the house in case of emergencies. Then we decided that taking some of that cash we have around and turning it into dry goods. I'm thinking it's a good idea to have some extra rice, beans, pasta, canned goods.

[miamieddie1]

Not really sure if my feelings on capitalism have changed because i don't feel capitalism is all bad. There are some good things that capitalism does bring. But it has apparently allowed, for sometime now, for people we trust to make important decisions to turn a blind eye. It would be nice if the upcoming leadership in this country, who ever it will be, to make accountability a recurring theme in trying to pick up the pieces of a mess we are in.

[Sarasvati]

[QUOTE=darkeyes;112917

Yet the system such as it is will survive, chastenened and modified no doubt in some way to make it on the surface at least, more compassionate, less ruthless and more responsible to the ordinary pleb at the bottom of the ladder.. it will get itself a makeover, and in a few years as things pick up there will be those who are just too relieved to have gotten out of the mire to worry or care whether the capitalist system has survived or not..yet it is damaged..not fatally and much of its ruin will be repaired.. but it has been weakened. Its reputation as a system and those who propound and defend it have been irreperably damaged and the changes it will have to make will weaken its capacity to dominate our world in the long term. Most of us will not notice that, but there will be more clever people than any of us who will not miss it...[/QUOTE]

A significant weakening of capitalism will result in far greater ruthlessness, selfishness and cruelty as unemployed masses squabble over provisions and social divisions break out into civil strife. Expect a rise in both left and right wing fanaticism as well as religious fundamentalism.

"The ordinary pleb" has fared far better under capitalism than any other system in history. I fear too for such people and do not delight at the prospect of another Great Depression.

[FalconAngel]

Not really sure if my feelings on capitalism have changed because i don't feel capitalism is all bad. There are some good things that capitalism does bring. But it has apparently allowed, for sometime now, for people we trust to make important decisions to turn a blind eye. It would be nice if the upcoming leadership in this country, who ever it will be, to make accountability a recurring theme in trying to pick up the pieces of a mess we are in.

As long as industries are reasonably regulated, so as not to rip off the people, then capitalism does work, but in the past 12 years, so many industries, that had and needed regulations in place, had those regulations removed.

That, combined with a runaway bureaucracy that doesn't work because it get's in the way of itself instead of helping the people, mixed with a political party system that is, for all intents and purposes, run by the lobbyists and you have a seriously corrupt government and financial system.

Unfortunately, it is going to take this coming second Great Depression to shake the people out of their past 30 years of general complacency so that the correct action will, hopefully, be taken.

[pottzie]

What's that saying?
"Buy when the market's down, sell when the market's high?"
But, as has often been pointed out to me by others, if I'm so f'n smart, how come I ain't rich?

[darkeyes]

A significant weakening of capitalism will result in far greater ruthlessness, selfishness and cruelty as unemployed masses squabble over provisions and social divisions break out into civil strife. Expect a rise in both left and right wing fanaticism as well as religious fundamentalism.

"The ordinary pleb" has fared far better under capitalism than any other system in history. I fear too for such people and do not delight at the prospect of another Great Depression.

I dont entirely disagree with that scenario S.. in the short and medium term that is indeed just what may well be expected but I think you miss my point.

We learn, or at least I hope we learn from our own mistakes and the mistakes of others. Capitalism may well recover and I suspect it shall. Yet it will find itself weaker than before because its mistakes will be well learned by those who are not its friends, and will increase the pressure put upon it in by its own past follies. Of course capitalists will learn their own lessons, but being capitalists time and greed will in time create yet another crisis which will undoubtedly in time lead to yet another crisis... and lessons will be learned from those also by the exponents of the creed and its opponents... I ask you though..just how many crises of capitalism must we endure before we realise that there must be something better?? A better way for us to progress as we journey through human existence? How many have to be abused, impoverished, crushed and humilated before we try something different and get it to work?? How often before we learn that human co-operation and trust is a better way to live than the appalling excesses of of a system which allows for the thriving of the powerful and the casting aside and appalling exploitation and suppression of of the rest?

Human progress is a long slow march. We are in many ways quick learners and adaptable. We are also in others very slow.. in recognising something that is inherently unfair we are awfully slow in recognising that.. capitalism is by its nature the law of the jungle.. the strong and powerful thrive and the weak struggle and perish... many believe it to be human nature and the way it has always been and the only way we can be. That is a future for our species I do not accept, and many others in every nation do not accept.. We are supposed to be the most intelligent and compassionate beings on earth.. and yet we allow the system of "survival of the fittest" to be the only one we can ever accept for our way of life? No hun.. if I believed that then life would simply be not worth the effort of drawing breath.

You can argue that capitalism has brought humanity more benefits and a greater lifestyle than any other in history..and that is partially true.. it has also brought life on this planet closer to extinction than any event, natural or man made in 50000 years.. all in the name of wealth and materialistic gain.. it does not necessarily follow that no other socio/economic system will not surpass even the many benefits of that which you seem to love and approve so much, and appear not to believe that there can be something better. I do not believe that, and have never believed in it.. humanity will progress, if we are allowed to survive, to another form of living... It may not be socialism, as I believe, which will supplant it, for I am not a psychic and don't now what is yet to come.. I just cannot see a better or more viable way of running our world than to have it run on socialist lines.. but others brighter than I will come up with something in time..so I am perfectly confident that we will change how we live our lives as a species, and how we do business, and trade and co-operate with one another whatever system we use.. capitalism has ruled our lives for well over two centuries now.. much changed, in many ways for the better, but with each crisis, it has produced ultimately a much less compassionate and more ruthless capitalist...

Yes it will survive.. but for all its survival it will ultimately prove to be one crisis closer to its inevitable death...

So I do not have all the answers...pitifully few in fact..but I do not close my mind to the fact that humanity will move on as we have always done to things better than those which went before.. even should we reach the perfect socialist society and the people of the world were content.. hahaha says u.. there will be someone somewhere who is not content and who will think up something better...and in time, that something better will take its place.. that my dear, is called human progress.. and it is that we should focus our minds upon.. not defending a dishonest, intolerant and viscious socio economic system as the only one which our world can ever bear....

Systems come and systems go.. it has always been so... and if humanity is to continue to progress, the the day will come when capitalism will be no more and will be consigned to the midden of history in the same way as has been the feudal system and all others which went before..