Martial Law in Minnesota?

[vittoria]

Right to peaceful protest... DENIED!!!

I wonder if the alleged "founding fathers" were referred to as dirty hippies...http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/04/rage-against-the-machine-gives-impromptu-performance-for-protestors/

As the police and military beat, taze, and literally rob us of our first amendment rights, is this the new Republican future? George Orwell and V for Vendetta?

Dammit Jim!

[12voltman59]

It has been a fact of American life, one that does not tend to make the history books, that when "we the people" truly stand up to injustices and say "no more" with their feet and bodies--the powers-that-be also say---"we won't have any of that nonsense!" and armies of private thugs, police, national guardsmen and even regular army are dispatched to quell "the rabble."

Such things took place almost within days of the founding of the nation and have gone on ever since----one of the worst times took place when workers in places like the railroads and mines stood up to fight for union representation--such a confrontation between the owners of the coal mines down in West Virginia and the miners lead to a period of extended conflict and bloodshed that became to be called "the Mingo County Wars" or "the West Virginia Coal Wars."

http://www.wvculture.org/hiStory/minewars.html

At Blair Mountain, a literal battle erupted between marching miners seeking fair treatment were ambushed by a force of private security guards and police who held the high ground on Spruce Fork Ridge. They opened fire on the miners as they entered the gap at the base of the mountain and that lead to around 100 miners being killed in the battle. Around 30 members of the private Baldwin-Felts force were killed as well.

The Battle at Blair Mountain was the bloodiest event that had taken place in America up to that time since the Civil War had ended.


http://books.google.com/books?id=XyTuG5fO5E4C&dq=Blair+Mountain+battle&pg=PP1&ots=NIUsZci1I2&sig=xVVF35-ZbTuBCFpZGQMqDWPa4RU&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

To identify themselves--the miners wore red bandanas, from where the term 'redneck' arose.

It always does get me---how those who are police--who more often than not have more in common with the protestors they take action against than the big wigs whose interests they protect are so willing to bash heads--and that you can also find a willing pool of privately hired individuals, who for a few measly dollars will bash heads too.

It is cool if you don't like things and bitch about it cleanly like we do here on the Internet--but go out and protest on the streets---you suddenly become a "malcontent who deserves to get his or her assed kicked."

It is no surprise though--it is part and parcel of American history sorry to say!

There is one thing that is a bit ironic--the future and very existence of Blair Mountain is in question thanks to the fact that one of the companies that does the modern form of coal mining in West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio and elsewhere---i.e. cut the trees all down from the surface, blast the hell out of the mountain or hillside to expose the coal veins then move in heavy equipment to remove the coal leaving a denuded landscape behind---plans to mine the coal there and obliterate the place!

http://www.pawv.org/news/blair.htm

[hudson9]

And the allegedly "liberal" media are ignoring it, even when other journalists -- Amy Goodman and 2 of her reporter/producers, an Assoc. Press photographer, and even a NY Post (those Rupert Murdoch owned Commies) photographer -- are arrested for no reason. You can see Amy Goodman's arrest on video on YouTube -- all she did was ask (with all her credentials visible) to speak to an officer in charge, and she was hauled off.

This is how the Republicans "protect" us.
:2cents:

[Falke]

That isn't the only incident.

I spotted this on another forum I go to.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/30/police_raids/

Massive police raids on suspected protestors in Minneapolis


Protesters here in Minneapolis have been targeted by a series of highly intimidating, sweeping police raids across the city, involving teams of 25-30 officers in riot gear, with semi-automatic weapons drawn, entering homes of those suspected of planning protests, handcuffing and forcing them to lay on the floor, while law enforcement officers searched the homes, seizing computers, journals, and political pamphlets. Last night, members of the St. Paul police department and the Ramsey County sheriff's department handcuffed, photographed and detained dozens of people meeting at a public venue to plan a demonstration, charging them with no crime other than "fire code violations," and early this morning, the Sheriff's department sent teams of officers into at least four Minneapolis area homes where suspected protesters were staying.

Jane Hamsher and I were at two of those homes this morning -- one which had just been raided and one which was in the process of being raided. Each of the raided houses is known by neighbors as a "hippie house," where 5-10 college-aged individuals live in a communal setting, and everyone we spoke with said that there had never been any problems of any kind in those houses, that they were filled with "peaceful kids" who are politically active but entirely unthreatening and friendly. Posted below is the video of the scene, including various interviews, which convey a very clear sense of what is actually going on here.

In the house that had just been raided, those inside described how a team of roughly 25 officers had barged into their homes with masks and black swat gear, holding large semi-automatic rifles, and ordered them to lie on the floor, where they were handcuffed and ordered not to move. The officers refused to state why they were there and, until the very end, refused to show whether they had a search warrant. They were forced to remain on the floor for 45 minutes while the officers took away the laptops, computers, individual journals, and political materials kept in the house. One of the individuals renting the house, an 18-year-old woman, was extremely shaken as she and others described how the officers were deliberately making intimidating statements such as "Do you have Terminator ready?" as they lay on the floor in handcuffs. The 10 or so individuals in the house all said that though they found the experience very jarring, they still intended to protest against the GOP Convention, and several said that being subjected to raids of that sort made them more emboldened than ever to do so.

Several of those who were arrested are being represented by Bruce Nestor, the President of the Minnesota chapter of the National Lawyers' Guild. Nestor said that last night's raid involved a meeting of a group calling itself the "RNC Welcoming Committee", and that this morning's raids appeared to target members of "Food Not Bombs," which he described as an anti-war, anti-authoritarian protest group. There was not a single act of violence or illegality that has taken place, Nestor said. Instead, the raids were purely anticipatory in nature, and clearly designed to frighten people contemplating taking part in any unauthorized protests.

Nestor indicated that only 2 or 3 of the 50 individuals who were handcuffed this morning at the 2 houses were actually arrested and charged with a crime, and the crime they were charged with is "conspiracy to commit riot." Nestor, who has practiced law in Minnesota for many years, said that he had never before heard of that statute being used for anything, and that its parameters are so self-evidently vague, designed to allow pre-emeptive arrests of those who are peacefully protesting, that it is almost certainly unconstitutional, though because it had never been invoked (until now), its constitutionality had not been tested.

There is clearly an intent on the part of law enforcement authorities here to engage in extreme and highly intimidating raids against those who are planning to protest the Convention. The DNC in Denver was the site of several quite ugly incidents where law enforcement acted on behalf of Democratic Party officials and the corporate elite that funded the Convention to keep the media and protesters from doing anything remotely off-script. But the massive and plainly excessive preemptive police raids in Minnesota are of a different order altogether. Targeting people with automatic-weapons-carrying SWAT teams and mass raids in their homes, who are suspected of nothing more than planning dissident political protests at a political convention and who have engaged in no illegal activity whatsoever, is about as redolent of the worst tactics of a police state as can be imagined.




Now, It doesn't matter what the message is...people have the right to peacefully protest. Unfortunately, some of those in power have forgotten that along with many other parts of the constitution.

[vittoria]

I think that the events in minneapolis are just a testing ground to see exactly how they can get away with such dreck. The insidiousness of the crap.. the fact that the MSM havent even "noticed" all while they are inside Xcel indoor stadium being plied with pestoed chicken and cabernet sauvignon and heineken, outside those doors even bands like Rage Against the Machine cant even sing.


Amazing... even makes julienne fries!!!

[12voltman59]

The problem with what you say Vi--is that I am afraid that most people have now been so Pavlovian trained--that they just shrug their shoulders and go--"well-I don't know what those people are so upset about--they deserve to be treated that way if they plan to protest!"

One of the outgrowths of the 9/11 attack was that it established a climate that made the great mass of people prefer a sense of "safety" as opposed to being "free." I think that many people today--in the desire to be safe and keep their kids safe and all--are more than willing to accept trading freedoms for "safety" but we do know what Ben Franklin said about that!

The press has done a good job of presenting people like those who are protesting as "others." That they are just badly dressed, freaks and such and that being the case---they more than deserve to have the cops "rough them up."

[lsd51]

"People's History of The United States" by Howard Zinn

[Falke]

The problem with what you say Vi--is that I am afraid that most people have now been so Pavlovian trained--that they just shrug their shoulders and go--"well-I don't know what those people are so upset about--they deserve to be treated that way if they plan to protest!"

One of the outgrowths of the 9/11 attack was that it established a climate that made the great mass of people prefer a sense of "safety" as opposed to being "free." I think that many people today--in the desire to be safe and keep their kids safe and all--are more than willing to accept trading freedoms for "safety" but we do know what Ben Franklin said about that!

The press has done a good job of presenting people like those who are protesting as "others." That they are just badly dressed, freaks and such and that being the case---they more than deserve to have the cops "rough them up."

I agree, I have been quite dismayed by the loss of freedoms caused by both sides.

As far as the war protests go, I don't agree with the protestors. However, this is utter BS in regards to what is happening. Regardless of what people say, as long as they aren't causing a riot then who cares? Further, what ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? All I can say is that I hope some lawsuits are filed and the proverbial heads will roll on this one.

[CalanderGirl]

Okay... ya'll need to ask someone who saw what happened and doesn't work for a tv, radio, or newspaper. The people that they used force on are anarchists... they were there only to stir up trouble. They left the peaceful protesters alone until the anarchists got in there and mixed with people. Then force was used.

Think about it this way... if you or your loved one was a police officer would you want a person participating in a riot to come up behind you and try and knock you out?! That is just one of the things that those people did. Most of what started this was self defence of a fellow police officer. The cops were also trying to protect other's cars etc that work down by the Xcel every day... people that had/have no link to the Rep Convention. There are wonderful restraunts down there and it's beautiful to walk down there when there isn't all of this chaos. I'm guessing that not everything was innocent because in this world it seems to take 2 to tango - but please give the cops some credit for protecting other people!!!

[12voltman59]

I do agree CG--when protesters do engage in violence--then that is wrong and needs to stop--going back the oiginal post--the story was about police raiding homes of people who had gathered in the Twin Cities area to peacefully protest even before they had actually done anything other than gather to make some speeches and such----based on what was reported--it seemed that the police had little or no probable cause to take pre-emptive action and that the raids were done more in a spirit of intimidation and the like to scare off others who wished to raise a contrary voice to what was going on in the convention hall.

In recent past incidents of police responding with force to protesters--in both Seattle and Miami--while there were cases of "anarchists" breaking windows and doing mayhem--there were many videos of the area taken far from the points the miscreants were doing their thing-I watched a video of the protest in Seattle where a woman--a civil rights type of attorney marching peacefully several blocks from where the kids were bashing windows and fighting officers----an officer dressed in his battle gear came up to her--pushed her very violently to the group and whacked her a few times with one of those expandable wands. The camera had been following her for a few minutes and all she did was to walk and yell her views about something--and the group did have permits to march that day and they were following the agreed to route and such---there were a few cretins who did resort to violence but in the aftermath of that event--the Seattle police did eventually admit they overreacted with excessive force beyond the scope of those who were actually doing the criminal acts and the same thing happened a few years later in Miami-even though Miami PD Police Chief Timoney really did not give a total apology in that case.

[darkeyes]

Okay... ya'll need to ask someone who saw what happened and doesn't work for a tv, radio, or newspaper. The people that they used force on are anarchists... they were there only to stir up trouble. They left the peaceful protesters alone until the anarchists got in there and mixed with people. Then force was used.

Think about it this way... if you or your loved one was a police officer would you want a person participating in a riot to come up behind you and try and knock you out?! That is just one of the things that those people did. Most of what started this was self defence of a fellow police officer. The cops were also trying to protect other's cars etc that work down by the Xcel every day... people that had/have no link to the Rep Convention. There are wonderful restraunts down there and it's beautiful to walk down there when there isn't all of this chaos. I'm guessing that not everything was innocent because in this world it seems to take 2 to tango - but please give the cops some credit for protecting other people!!!CG babes.. dunno the truth a wot happened ere but jus gonna say this 2 ya.. am a political animal as ya well kno.. hav been ova me life on upwards a 300 or so demos, most a wich wer peaceful.. but no small numba.. mayb 40 or 50 hav had a violent an nasty side 2 it.. of that.. me knos that ther wer arseholes on my side, the sida the demonstrators who started the crap.. thats cos me saw it startin ... an saw the 1st blows.. that wos bout half a duz of those demos.. on otha hand.. a cupple more the demonstrators wer egged on an dared 2 start summat by the police on an summat wos gonna giv.. an it did an don deny that from wot me saw it wos peeps on my side "cast the 1st stone".. ther hav been also at least anotha haff duz ther no doubt in my mind wot me eyes told me.. the forces a law an order wer hot an wired up 2 doin sum kikkin an worse...an from wot me saw..they created an ugly atmosphere a intimidation an if peeps didn start it they wer determined they wud an get sum heads! An start it they did an belted hell outa the demonstrators an nicked loads for jus bein ther... the otha 30 plus me goes by worda mouth an dunno the truth of it cept from wot me believes anecdotally..sumtimes my side sumtimes the fuzz..

Me point in alla this ramble is this..don take wot the polis tellya as gospel..or the media... or demonstrator or observor..ther is a truth..but unless yas ther an saw it for yasel ya neva will get near wot the actual truth is... me goes 2 demos 2 demonstrate peacefully an not havta put up wiv crap eitha from peeps who sposed 2 b on me own side an certainly not from peeps whose wages me pays 2 protect me...

[Bluebiyou]

Welllllll,
40 years ago it was the DNC declaring martial law in Chicago.
Just remember... politics.
DNC
RNC
Tory
Whig
all crooks to some degree;
some are/were total crooks.

[scubaman]

All - like CG stated, look at it from the law enforcement officers position. Having been in a simular situation, the officers are charged with protection the public and their personal property. That is their job; no matter their personal feelings. In a situation which will be high vis like the on in MN, the police officers know they will be on film and will only discharge the amount of force to stop the violent actions of those he/she encountered. It is very easy to sit at your computer typing your feelings. Unless you have experienced it try not to be so harsh on those who are putting their lives on the line daily so that you can experience your rights which was written by the framers of the consitition!

[darkeyes]

All - like CG stated, look at it from the law enforcement officers position. Having been in a simular situation, the officers are charged with protection the public and their personal property. That is their job; no matter their personal feelings. In a situation which will be high vis like the on in MN, the police officers know they will be on film and will only discharge the amount of force to stop the violent actions of those he/she encountered. It is very easy to sit at your computer typing your feelings. Unless you have experienced it try not to be so harsh on those who are putting their lives on the line daily so that you can experience your rights which was written by the framers of the consitition!
Is very easy 2 sit at me puter..but me has a life an dus moren that..me goes on demos in defence a me liberties an rites, an as part a me liberties an rites.. an the polis all 2 often r ther 2 fukkin stop me... they discharge the amount a force they wanna discharge an sumtimes wen they lose the plot...more..MUCH more.. sumtimes ther r arseholes who r ther 2 stir an cause trubble an b violent... sumtimes Scube hun.. they r the very forces who r meant 2 protect the liberties we r demonstratin 2 defend...

[vittoria]

Remember...

Behind the words on a computer screen are living, breathing people with thoughts, feelings, emotions, and

HOLD ON...


LIVES.

There are people from all parts of the globe, and all walks of life that are here... and it may come as a suprise, but its not like we dont get up, shower and take a shit once in a while :cutelaugh

Everyone has a right to opine--whether it be the person on the outside looking in, or the police officer who takes his work home with him. Just because none of us ( that I know of at least) are Occifers of the Law (sp intended) doesnt not mean we dont have a right to bitch when you have bands like Rage Against the Machine or reporters being abused by the law. PLEASE READ THE LINKS that are provided instead of just commentating cause one is pissed at what they read--

The link is there for a reason, to specify what is being talked about... not just random EVERYTHING :bigrin:


As for the "anarchists" or the antichrist or whatever the fkk..if they (cops) want to attack them(anarchists or antichrists or whatever the fkk) so be it.. just dont screw with people that arent doing shit to ya. For instance, how fair is it to blow up a whole country for the sake of a couple hundred knuckleheads? Kill the innocent with the "guilty" just because "they were there"?

The original post was:


Right to peaceful protest... DENIED!!!

I wonder if the alleged "founding fathers" were referred to as dirty hippies...http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...or-protestors/

As the police and military beat, taze, and literally rob us of our first amendment rights, is this the new Republican future? George Orwell and V for Vendetta?

[incox]

For all of you who have read something about Puerto Rico. How about all of the injustices inflicted on its population since the invation in 1898? And of all these things in the name of "Democracy" and from "The leader of the 'Free' world", etc. etc.