Polyamory

[Trinity-Fl]

This may have limited interest for people on our site; however...

Being bi almost certainly means that you are "poly." Being poly means that you openly and honestly have more than one "love" in your life.

This article is directed at midlife women but I think that younger women (and men) can get something from a quick read. Personally, we've been members of Tampa-Poly and Central Florida Poly (in Orlando) for over 8 years. We lived as an MFM triad for almost 4 years.

We find it sad that so many people on this site have to be "discreet" to explore their sexuality. Of course, if polyamory became an accepted lifestyle the Jerry Springer Show and the daytime soaps would be a thing of the past. :) And divorce attorneys will never let it become a way of life. No money in that!

So, here's the article.

http://womenbloom.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=167&Itemid=27

Thanks

Charlie

[HighEnergy]

Hey Charlie,
Good to see you around. Thanks for the article. It's always good to remind ourselves of all the work poly is, and the benefits!

[Trinity-Fl]

Central Florida Poly has a discussion group on Yahoo Groups. This link was forwarded from that group and, apparently, came from the "Polygeezer" website.

Thanks for the additional info about the link.

Charlie

[Trinity-Fl]

Well, folks. There it is in a nutshell. Monogamy is the answer and always will be. Open communication between a couple or a triad is impossible and honesty about one's feelings will never work. The couple will always stay together and... oops. Sue and Steve were married. We lived together for 4 years and now Sue and I have been together as a couple for 5 years and going strong.

It's a good post, JM. I don't agree with all you say. I've been a swinger and a poly and in my opinion, there is a difference. For example, how welcome are bi guys at most swingers parties?

Your comments are pretty much pronouncements as if handed down engraved in stone. :) It was a long post which took time and thought to reply to my original. Thank you for devoting the effort and posting the opposing arguments.

CC

[lady_starlight]

CC-

Look at the statistics, 3 way relationships don't work in the long run. I know people who have tried them but they don't last and look at your own relationship with Sue and Steve that failed and didn't work.

Secondly what's so inherently wrong about saying that what's called "polyamory" is simply just swinging, an open relationship, and slutting around?



Look at the statisitcs....monogamous relationships just don't work either. If by "don't work" you mean the people involved eventually break up. If thats the case, then really, 99% (or more) of relationships are unsuccessful. Whether they involve two, three, or more people. Are you with the first person you ever dated? if yes, then i guess you are among they very very few people with "successful" relationships. who's to say that just becuase people eventually go their own ways that the relationship wasn;t successful for the time they were together?

Secondly, it's inherently wrong to call polyamoury an open relationship becuase they are two inherently different things. And open relationship is sleeping around with your partners consent. Polyamoury is having more than one intimate relationship, either everyone involved (ie: a triad) or just each person in the primary relationship may have other significant partners. A lot of people have a problem with a poly relationship, but they are content with an open relationship, becuase they don't want their partner to share an emotional bond with someone else. Thats really what i see to be the difference. sex is sex, but falling in love with someone is so much more. And saying if you really love someone, you can;'t love anyone else is just like saying you can't love both your parents, or more than one child, or have two best friends.

I've personally been in both situations, and for me there is a very big difference.

I enjoyed the article, although like someone else mentioned, i think it was geared to people in a different life phase than myself. I do however not think that being bisexual automatically makes one interested in poly...I am sure there are several people who are bi but monogamous and happy with it.

Ordinarily i wouldn't defending something like this to random people...i think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and there are those who feel that a poly lifestyle is akin to swinging, then so be. However, i do take offence to my relationship style being referred to as slutting around. A difference of opinion can still be expressed using words that respect people's choice and not label them in a negative manner.

[Lonestar_Northstar]

We're just lurkers and don't have an opinion either way on poly...but James, sure does sound like you've been burned in the past. Just our observation.

[bearisbare]

Interesting that James Mitchell posted almost the exact same thing as the banned 'flexisexual' (see "Swing or Polyamory", thread reply written on May 2/08). A couple of different words and one extra, short final paragraph.

[FalconAngel]

Well, as far as Poly relationships, we have some friends who are Poly and they way they explain it to us is like this;

They are a family. All three of them. They are all emotionally intimate with each other. No secrets, no playing around behind anyone's back, not an open relationship. The third person that they brought into their relationship started out as a friend to both of them and things developed from there. Being as they are all, Bi, it makes things easier to be intimate on other levels as well.

JM, while you make some points, most of what you are saying sounds very angry and absolutist.

Not trying to offend you, but that's what you seem to be projecting, here.

While you are saying that Poly relationships (absolutely) do not work, there are others here who believe with absolute certainty that they can and often do work. At least they are (absolutely) certain that they don't work any worse than any other relationship.

Being in a Bi group, most of us learn very quickly that there are very few absolutes in the world and this subject is no exception, really.

Let's be honest here. How many of us know couples that have been together for 20, 30, 40 or more years. And how many of the couples that each of us know fit that "lifetime commitment" category? A very small percentage, to be sure. At least here in the US, that seems to be the rule of thumb. Those numbers may be different where you are, but to us Americans, you are speaking from a completely different cultural life experience than many of the people that you are talking to here.

With that in mind, remember that our cultural life experiences will be different from yours as well. But even though our cultures are somewhat similar to each other, they are not exactly the same and so certain things like this will be seen differently by each of us.

[pasco_lol_cpl]

Sorry but I have to disagree. Poly relations have, can, and do work out quite well. We are poly but due to our crazy schedules and the meeting times we can never make the Sunday Tampa poly events. Sorry but Sunday is a killer for us.

[FalconAngel]

Yeah that's nice and all that they live together but I wouldn't bet money that they'll stay together in an open relationship like that.

They're in an open relationship no matter how they want to call it because it's not a closed or monogamous relationship and they invited another person into their open relationship.

I've seen documentaries about people in open relationships like that and many times they're just doing it for the purpose of trying something new, most open relationships don't last, and open relationships are a lot more work than closed/monogamous ones are.

That's where your information is in error.
Many times, documentaries are edited in such a way as to leave you with an innacurate impression of the subject.
It's called a subjective documentary.
There are also objective documentaries, where they do not focus on either the good or the bad. They present the facts and allow you to dray your own conclusions.
Unfortunately, there are far more subjective documentaries out there than objective documentaries.
It's like the difference between a newscaster that makes their opinion part of the newscast and a newscaster that keeps their opinions to themselves and just reports the facts.

An open relationship/marriage is when the members of the relationship are free to go out and play, without much restriction and have relationships outside of the marriage.

In a poly relationship, the person is brought into what becomes a closed loop relationship. No one has relationships of either a sexual or romantic type outside of that relationship.
All parties in the relationship are involved in a way that is deeper than sexual and no one is added to the relationship if they do not mesh well with everyone that is already in the relationship. If that meshing does not happen, then that person is not added to the mix.

An open relationship is like a shelf of ingredients. the spices may work well with the meat, but not with the sugar, so you don't mix them all together because they do not mix with each other.

http://www.ejhs.org/volume6/polyamory.htm

A poly relationship is like a stew. You have to mix the right ingredients for it to come out right

So what is the difference between a closed relationship and a monogamous relationship? We ask because you differenciated it in your post.

[ghytifrdnr]

Fantastic article! It ties together so many of the thoughts that have rattled around in my brain for many years.

This paragraph sums it up so well:

"You see, polys look at love as an abundant commodity instead of a scarce one. They ask why can’t you be intimate with more than one person? When pressed to explain why not, I find myself grasping a bit. Because monogamy is such a deeply conditioned belief in our society, I realize I’ve simply accepted it at face value until now." :bounce:

[ghytifrdnr]

I'm so conflicted! I don't know whether to ignore the troll, or tell it where to send the money?

[FalconAngel]

Falcon-A closed relationship and a monogamous relationship are the exact same thing. I put them together because people consider them to be the same thing. Just like how a poly relationship and an open relationship are the exact same thing with different names.


You differentiated the closed relationship from the monogamous relationship. Why not just call it monogamous and be done with the description?
After all, we all know what a monogamous relationship is.

Well then, the people that you have met or read about are fakers. Like we said, we have friends that are in Poly relationships and it is nothing like the open relationships that you are describing.

Did it occur to you that those people who are claiming to be poly, while living in open relationships, are just fakes; using the Poly label to justify what they do because they either don't know the difference or hope that no one else will figure it out?

It doesn't appear, based on your posts, that you thought of that possibility. Particularly since you have made no mention of it.
Or, perhaps you just dismissed it as an impossibility.

After all, who would pretend to be something they are not, right?

[vittoria]

Interesting that James Mitchell posted almost the exact same thing as the banned 'flexisexual' (see "Swing or Polyamory", thread reply written on May 2/08). A couple of different words and one extra, short final paragraph.


YOU FKKN ROCK!!!!!!!



Been noticin that bit of tomfoolery m'self:tong:

[Iowabiguy]

Being both poly and bi I enjoy reading new articles on the subject.
I enjoyed reading the downsides of the poly life because I think to many people want to gloss over the difficulties and work of being poly. I am poly because that is who I am at the core of my being.
Polys are looking for relationships to enhance their lives and look for the trust and understanding that comes from knowing the person BEFORE you have sex with them. Relationships take work. Work can be fun. Work can be rewarding.
Playing while working on the relationship can be the most fun.
Of course, having sex with someone you barely know happens but it is not the ideal that is being strived toward in a poly relationship.
I do NOT ever look down on someone for having an non-monogamous relationship that allows for screwing around without having a relationship attached to that activity. I think it invites more opportunity for STDs but if everyone is protected and there is understanding and truth between partners then I say "GO FOR IT!!"

[BI BOYTOY]

:three: this atricule is most interesting indeed

[runewlf]

Well, as far as Poly relationships, we have some friends who are Poly and they way they explain it to us is like this;

They are a family. All three of them. They are all emotionally intimate with each other. No secrets, no playing around behind anyone's back, not an open relationship. The third person that they brought into their relationship started out as a friend to both of them and things developed from there. Being as they are all, Bi, it makes things easier to be intimate on other levels as well.

JM, while you make some points, most of what you are saying sounds very angry and absolutist.

Not trying to offend you, but that's what you seem to be projecting, here.

While you are saying that Poly relationships (absolutely) do not work, there are others here who believe with absolute certainty that they can and often do work. At least they are (absolutely) certain that they don't work any worse than any other relationship.

Being in a Bi group, most of us learn very quickly that there are very few absolutes in the world and this subject is no exception, really.

Let's be honest here. How many of us know couples that have been together for 20, 30, 40 or more years. And how many of the couples that each of us know fit that "lifetime commitment" category? A very small percentage, to be sure. At least here in the US, that seems to be the rule of thumb. Those numbers may be different where you are, but to us Americans, you are speaking from a completely different cultural life experience than many of the people that you are talking to here.

With that in mind, remember that our cultural life experiences will be different from yours as well. But even though our cultures are somewhat similar to each other, they are not exactly the same and so certain things like this will be seen differently by each of us.


Yes, they work. My wife and I have been in a quad for over a year now. Just like all relationships there are ups and downs. Poly is not "just about sex". As the friends above, we are a family. The sex is fun, and nice, but it is not the basis of our relationship and that is what keeps us together. "Monogamy is the answer"? How many failed monogamous relationships are you familiar with.... Only my Grandparents and my wife and I have been married for any length of time, them over 55 years and us over 18 (first marriages as well).

[PlacentaJuan]

Yes, they work. My wife and I have been in a quad for over a year now. Just like all relationships there are ups and downs. Poly is not "just about sex". As the friends above, we are a family. The sex is fun, and nice, but it is not the basis of our relationship and that is what keeps us together. "Monogamy is the answer"? How many failed monogamous relationships are you familiar with.... Only my Grandparents and my wife and I have been married for any length of time, them over 55 years and us over 18 (first marriages as well).

Actually being poly"amorous" is indeed all about sex.

If you're not even sexually attracted to these people, why have sex and a relationship with them in the first place?

People will talk about poly being about "love" and a ugh "family" but it's all about lust and sexual attraction first.

[Iowabiguy]

Looks like the Hydra grew another head?!!?

[FalconAngel]

......but it's all about lust and sexual attraction first.

So is any relationship, when you put it that way.

What is it that attracts you, initially, to others?

What keeps you attracted after you have had a chance to meet them and talk to them?
Is it their conversational skills or their looks?

If it's only their looks, then you would have to be a very shallow person, indeed.

If it is only their conversation and interpersonal skills, then you are still not being completely honest with yourself or anyone else.

If it is both, then you understand relationships and what you have said, so far, is designed simply to be argumentative.

Guess what? It's human nature to be physically attracted to another, initially, to start a relationship.

What you have said indicates that you think that a relationship is about sex, and nothing else. That doesn't speak well of you or your hopes of ever having a truly successful long term relationship.

That does not speak well of you.

Many of us are here for more than "just sex". We are here for a number of things;
Some for the fellowship with those who share our sexual identity.

Some for sexual hookups.

Some to help understand the sexual identity of a significant other.

And some for all of those and many other reasons.

To say that a relationship (other than fuck-buddies) is just about sex, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of any relationships, including traditional Judeo-Christian monogamous relationships.

[FalconAngel]

Looks like the Hydra grew another head?!!?

His join date is June 19th., less than a day ago.

It is rather consistent with our troll, now that I take a look at his (?) profile.

Maybe the troll is changing tack again; or at least trying to.

Some subhumans never learn.

[still_shy]

The list gets longer all the time

[PlacentaJuan]

So is any relationship, when you put it that way.

What is it that attracts you, initially, to others?

What keeps you attracted after you have had a chance to meet them and talk to them?
Is it their conversational skills or their looks?

If it's only their looks, then you would have to be a very shallow person, indeed.

If it is only their conversation and interpersonal skills, then you are still not being completely honest with yourself or anyone else.

If it is both, then you understand relationships and what you have said, so far, is designed simply to be argumentative.

Guess what? It's human nature to be physically attracted to another, initially, to start a relationship.

What you have said indicates that you think that a relationship is about sex, and nothing else. That doesn't speak well of you or your hopes of ever having a truly successful long term relationship.

That does not speak well of you.

Many of us are here for more than "just sex". We are here for a number of things;
Some for the fellowship with those who share our sexual identity.

Some for sexual hookups.

Some to help understand the sexual identity of a significant other.

And some for all of those and many other reasons.

To say that a relationship (other than fuck-buddies) is just about sex, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of any relationships, including traditional Judeo-Christian monogamous relationships.

I read your profile and all you want is some dick. Stop kidding yourself.

You say that you want to be friends first but then you say how you're only into smooth men and how race isn't a big deal yet Asian men are wanted and desired the most.

You're calling me a hypocrite because I'm saying that sexual attraction is the basis of most relationships and that it's even what you and your wife want with other people. :rolleyes:

Dream on and don't hold your breath when it comes to finding a single male to be a fuckbuddy with.

You wouldn't know him and you'd find something wrong with him even if he emailed you, you saw him in public, or found him on this website.

[PlacentaJuan]

Also just because someone is new to a website it doesn't make them subhuman or a troll.

[Iowabiguy]

So is any relationship, when you put it that way.

What is it that attracts you, initially, to others?

What keeps you attracted after you have had a chance to meet them and talk to them?
Is it their conversational skills or their looks?

If it's only their looks, then you would have to be a very shallow person, indeed.

If it is only their conversation and interpersonal skills, then you are still not being completely honest with yourself or anyone else.

If it is both, then you understand relationships and what you have said, so far, is designed simply to be argumentative.

Guess what? It's human nature to be physically attracted to another, initially, to start a relationship.

What you have said indicates that you think that a relationship is about sex, and nothing else. That doesn't speak well of you or your hopes of ever having a truly successful long term relationship.

That does not speak well of you.

Many of us are here for more than "just sex". We are here for a number of things;
Some for the fellowship with those who share our sexual identity.

Some for sexual hookups.

Some to help understand the sexual identity of a significant other.

And some for all of those and many other reasons.

To say that a relationship (other than fuck-buddies) is just about sex, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of any relationships, including traditional Judeo-Christian monogamous relationships.

FalconAngel,
I think we have established that our not-so-friendly Hydra is NOT polyamorous nor does he want to understand it. I think though that you have used this discussion to point out some very interesting thoughts on relationships in general and polyamory specifically.
No one has ever said that polyamory is for everybody. Denying that it exists or belittling those who are polyamorous is as bad as being biphobic and just like biphobia it has ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE IN THESE FORUMS.

[PlacentaJuan]

FalconAngel,
I think we have established that our not-so-friendly Hydra is NOT polyamorous nor does he want to understand it. I think though that you have used this discussion to point out some very interesting thoughts on relationships in general and polyamory specifically.
No one has ever said that polyamory is for everybody. Denying that it exists or belittling those who are polyamorous is as bad as being biphobic and just like biphobia it has ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE IN THESE FORUMS.

Calling "Polyamory" for what it is and saying the truth that it is just an open relationship and nothing more, is not the same as being biphobic or homophobic, and it's not a bad thing either.

Have you even actually read my posts at all? Or are you too busy being blinded by your foolish self saintified philosophy of "polyamory" that is nothing more than an open relationship?

If you say that you want "love" or a "family", sex with multiple people, or you can fall in love with more than one person at once then do so; but don't get all hung up and call it "polyamory" or anything but an open relationship just because you need to sleep at night and stay comfortable in your own little world. So you live in a brittle glass castle and I have rocks. Try thinking for yourself for once instead of letting other people and their viewpoints control your life like you are with "polyamory" which is nothing more than an open relationship.

Just why is it specifically bad or such a horrible thing in your opinion to call "polyamory" an open relationship since that's what it is? Is your personal worldview that built up around such a phony heavily defined cultish philosophy?

No I'm not a Hydra or a troll, I'm a human being.

[PlacentaJuan]

I am equally skeptical of 'polyamory' thinking, partly because I am not really sure that there is such a thing, and that even if there is, it always seemed to me to be an ideology as much as anything else- sort of like the difference between enjoying nude beaches and being a militantly ideological nudist, if that makes any sense.

JamieKNYC-Good job for thinking for yourself instead of listening to the foolish "polyamorists" who are just in open relationships and nothing more.

You get a gold star! :)

[Iowabiguy]

[QUOTE=PlacentaJuan;105482]Calling "Polyamory" for what it is and saying the truth that it is just an open relationship and nothing more, is not the same as being biphobic or homophobic, and it's not a bad thing either.

Have you even actually read my posts at all? Or are you too busy being blinded by your foolish self saintified philosophy of "polyamory" that is nothing more than an open relationship?

If you say that you want "love" or a "family", sex with multiple people, or you can fall in love with more than one person at once then do so; but don't get all hung up and call it "polyamory" or anything but an open relationship just because you need to sleep at night and stay comfortable in your own little world. So you live in a brittle glass castle and I have rocks. Try thinking for yourself for once instead of letting other people and their viewpoints control your life like you are with "polyamory" which is nothing more than an open relationship.

Just why is it specifically bad or such a horrible thing in your opinion to call "polyamory" an open relationship since that's what it is? Is your personal worldview that built up around such a phony heavily defined cultish philosophy?


PlacentaJuan,
Yes, I have read your posts and I was polyamorous long before you came to this site and will be long after you are gone.
If you want to call every non-monogamous relationship as "open" then go for it. You seem like a broken record and what is the point? You are not advancing anything new. Do you think by saying the same thing long enough and loud enough that you will convince people that polyamory does not exist?
You have a beef against polyamory as word. You don't even seem opposed to it as a concept; just the word. Polyamory and polyfidelity describe perfectly the relationships many people are working on currently.
Certainly you are correct that open relationships occur. Swinging is an example of responsible non-monogamy that works for many people.
Polyamory assumes that there are responsible restrictions attached to each relationship. Cheating occurs when one person does not honor the agreed upon relationship structure and goes outside of that relationship for sex. Polyfidelity specifically describes this. Being faithful to more than one person. Not having sex outside this construct unless it is agreed upon by all parties involved. It is hard work to maintain this but the rewards can be great.

[Iowabiguy]

No I'm not a Hydra or a troll, I'm a human being.

Yes, you are a human being. A troubled, obsessed, aggravating, persistent, venomous human being.
You are also a Hydra and a troll and a bunny, depending on who is describing you.

[MissyMissy]

Even monogamous relationships involve sexual desires but are not always are about sexual desires. i am not good in monogamous relationships and that is a fact. do poly relationships always work out? no, but monogamous ones do not either. i think whatever makes you a happier person is the best. and you are not hurting anyone. even in regular relationships people get hurt. it isn't about which is better it is about your preference and yours/ thiers/others needs.
missy

[PlacentaJuan]

[QUOTE=PlacentaJuan;105482]Calling "Polyamory" for what it is and saying the truth that it is just an open relationship and nothing more, is not the same as being biphobic or homophobic, and it's not a bad thing either.

Have you even actually read my posts at all? Or are you too busy being blinded by your foolish self saintified philosophy of "polyamory" that is nothing more than an open relationship?

If you say that you want "love" or a "family", sex with multiple people, or you can fall in love with more than one person at once then do so; but don't get all hung up and call it "polyamory" or anything but an open relationship just because you need to sleep at night and stay comfortable in your own little world. So you live in a brittle glass castle and I have rocks. Try thinking for yourself for once instead of letting other people and their viewpoints control your life like you are with "polyamory" which is nothing more than an open relationship.

Just why is it specifically bad or such a horrible thing in your opinion to call "polyamory" an open relationship since that's what it is? Is your personal worldview that built up around such a phony heavily defined cultish philosophy?


PlacentaJuan,
Yes, I have read your posts and I was polyamorous long before you came to this site and will be long after you are gone.
If you want to call every non-monogamous relationship as "open" then go for it. You seem like a broken record and what is the point? You are not advancing anything new. Do you think by saying the same thing long enough and loud enough that you will convince people that polyamory does not exist?
You have a beef against polyamory as word. You don't even seem opposed to it as a concept; just the word. Polyamory and polyfidelity describe perfectly the relationships many people are working on currently.
Certainly you are correct that open relationships occur. Swinging is an example of responsible non-monogamy that works for many people.
Polyamory assumes that there are responsible restrictions attached to each relationship. Cheating occurs when one person does not honor the agreed upon relationship structure and goes outside of that relationship for sex. Polyfidelity specifically describes this. Being faithful to more than one person. Not having sex outside this construct unless it is agreed upon by all parties involved. It is hard work to maintain this but the rewards can be great.

"Polyamory" is such a fake philosophy and a concept and philosophy that only a complete fool would hold a candle to, have faith in and believe in. What complete idiot would actually believe that it's nothing more than being in an open relationship?

Nope, Polyamory doesn't exist. It's just a nicer way of saying that someone's partner wants some cock or pussy on the side that you can't give them! It's just an open relationship and there's no difference between polyamory, polyfidelity, swinging, and an open relationship.

I don't see the difference between having an open relationship and what people who are self defined and self described as poly say that polyamory is defined as. I see the two as being the EXACT same thing but just with different names.

My main issue with "polamory" is that it's just another word for an open relationship and I've read books like the Ethical slut or other essays about polyamory and in my opinion it's just another word for an open relationship.

Research has shown that open relationships or what people call "Polyamory" makes people feel validated if they want to turn away from working on relationships they have, gives them an excuse to stay married and not get a divorce, gives people an excuse to sleep around and find more people who like to sleep around, and gives people an excuse to validate orgies and multiple simultaneous sex partners.

I am not cool with different levels for group marriages and group family rearing of children. This brings in commune/cult mentalities and individuality starts to blur. Some people think it's okay to have a highly sexually charged environment but keep the sex acts 'behind closed doors' away from the kids, and others think it's okay for everyone in the "family", even the kids to sleep in the same room while sex acts, partner swapping, and orgies are going on.... The trouble with this whole "self-proclaimed polyamory" that I can see is that there are no guidelines for what it really is, so people use it to be whatever they want it to be.

I also don't understand why polyamory is supposed to be so 'free' and 'open' yet people who are self defined as poly feel the need to be so clearly defined. Or they tell you about it ALL THE TIME as if they're just trying to personally validate it to themselves, when it's not that revolutionary and it's only having an open relationship.

[PlacentaJuan]

Ever wonder what people who are self described and defined as "polyamorous" are saying when they say things?

Well there's no need to anymore as there's a handy translation guide!

~Author Unknown~

Poly-amorous, new age rhetoric and it's english translations....

Poly phrase: "I don't use primary/secondary terminology, since I don't see my relationships as hierarchical."

English translation: "You're a secondary."

Poly phrase: "For me sex is about energy, so breathing and heart connection are more important than ejaculation."

English translation: "I'm more sophisticated than the guy over there, please sleep with me instead."

Poly phrase: "I see polyamory as being more about relationships and intimacy, while swinging is just about sex, and sex without intimacy is just not where I'm at right now."

English translation: "I'm more sophisticated than the person over there, please sleep with me instead"

Poly phrase: "The most important thing to me is keeping agreements."

English translation: "If you start seeing someone else and I'd feel unsophisticated just saying that I'm jealous, then I'll reinterpret one of our agreements until I'm able to say you broke it."

Poly phrase: "Even secondary relationships for me aren't just about sex."

English translation: "Secondary relationships for me are just about sex."

Poly phrase: "Right now the most important things to me are building poly family and intentional community."

English translation: "I'm getting concerned that I won't always be able to easily find new partners, plus I'm tired of driving from place to place, and oh yeah, I'm more sophisticated than the guy over there, so please sleep with me instead."

Poly phrase: "In our household the most important things are open communication and open process."

English translation: "Expect to be abused with passive-aggressive 'I' statements."

Poly phrase- Our family has spent considerable amount of time working through jealousy issues. No drama or competition here!

English translation- We are well entrenched in our particular form of disfunction, but I give the best head of the bunch so sleep with me instead!

Poly phrase: "I don't feel that we communicate on the same level, and that you aren't supporting me emotionally."

English translation: "I'm tired of you but it would make me seem less sophisticated and hence reduce my opportunities for further sexual relationships in this community to actually say that so bluntly, so I'll make his about vague failings on your part instead."

Poly phrase: "I think we should each have veto power."

English translation: "I want to reserve the right to veto each of your partners, no matter how much they respect our existing relationships, so that you're de facto limited to monogamy while I play the field."

Poly phrase: "I think that we should focus on each other for a while."

English translation: "I'm having more trouble finding partners than you are, time to clip your wings!"

Poly phrase: "I want you to always feel OK telling me what's really going on in your life, and asking for what you need in this relationship."

English translation: "Ask for what you need, and express hurt feelings, at your peril."

Poly phrase: "I'm not angry at you, I'm angry at myself, for not having recognized sooner that we weren't right for each other."

English translation: "I'm angry at you for not making my life perfect, but rather than taking responsibility for setting and meeting my own goals I find it more satisfying to shift the blame to you while superficially appearing to do the opposite."

Poly phrase: "Out of respect for our primary bond, we normally only see other people together."

English translation: "MAYBE THIS TIME I'LL FINALLY GET TO HAVE SEX WITH TWO WOMEN AT ONCE OMG OMG OMG THAT WOULD BE L33T!!!!! "

Poly phrase: "I think we need to process the end of our relationship and get closure."

English translation: "I'd like to kick you while you're down."

Poly phrase: "We obviously need to work on our relationship."

English translation: "We're through, I just want to vent a little more so that I can feel a little more self-righteous once you know it's over too, OK?"

Poly phrase: "The idea of line marriage has always appealed to me."

English translation: "The idea of having sex with people younger than me has always appealed to me."

Poly phrase: "So, which conventions do you like to attend, what kind of books do you like to read, what are your spiritual beliefs, and what is your ideal occupation?"

English translation: "Which science fiction conventions do you like to attend, who is your favorite fantasy author, what form of neo-paganism do you ascribe do, and where in the computer industry would you like to work?"

Poly phrase: "I'm needing to do some inner work, and instead of dating anyone would rather just work on my relationship with myself."

English translation: "I'm tired of you, but since I don't have anyone else lined up right now I might as well get some mileage out of the personal growth angle."

Poly phrase: "Well, I'm only theoretically poly, but I already have plenty of firmly-held beliefs about how it could be done in real life!"

English translation: "Hi, I'm an idiot."

Poly phrase: "Swinging would be way too crass for me, I'm more about relationships and emotional intimacy."

English translation: "I've always wanted to go to New Horizons swingers club (see here: http://www.horizonsclub.com/), could someone give me a ride there and guest me in, as long as I don't have to ask publicly?"

Poly phrase: "All of my partners are equally important to me, and they're all primary."

English translation: "I'd rather not explicitly spell out what the hierarchy is, but trust me - you'll know when you run into it."

Poly phrase: "Our friendship is more important than anything else."

English translation: "Once you've told me that we're done fucking, you'll never hear a word from me again."

Poly phrase: "I'm willing to take this slow as well."

English translation: "I intend to act like a SNAG (Sensitive New Age Guy) and put as much pressure on you to put out as possible."

Poly phrase: "I've had to do a lot of work on that issue myself in my other relationships, and I'd be glad to help you with it if you want."

English translation: "I've tried blaming all my other partners for my shit and they won't put up with it anymore."

Poly phrase: "I really admire the way you are able to speak up for your boundaries in your relationships."

English translation: "If I'm going to get you to sleep with me, I'll have to be a cagey, manipulative bastard."

Poly phrase: "My other partners and I share a lot of interests but we do a lot of things separately, too."

English translation: "None of my current partners will let me have anal sex with them; will you?"

Poly phrase: "My partners and I follow our own unique spiritual path."

English translation: "Please join our cult."

Poly phrase: "I've learned so much from all of my relationships."

English addendum: "...so I know not to tell you about my OSOs/mental illness/contagious diseases until after you're emotionally involved with me."

Poly phrase: "I expect and give honest communication."

English translation: "I will bludgeon you with my opinions whenever I feel like it and if you can't take it then you must have a problem with 'honesty.'"

Poly phrase: "I wish we could all just get along."

English translation: "Give me what I want and no one gets hurt."

Poly phrase: "Have you read "The Ethical Slut"?

English translation: "If you don't have sex with me, or at least read that book, you're a prude and aren't evolved like I am."

Poly phrase: "Age is just a number."

English translation: "I will not fuck women or men who are my age or older."

Poly phrase: "Do you do Tantra?"

English translation: "If you don't have sex with me, you're a prude and aren't evolved."

Poly phrase: "Poly people are more evolved than mono people."

English translation: "I'm a virgin."

Poly speak: "It's a shame you're limiting yourself and your love."

English translation: "Why won't you fuck me?"

Poly phrase: I've told my poly partner about you and she's very excited to meet you so we'd like to have you over for dinner soon. Would you like to join the two of us for that?

English translation: Due to how hot I said you were my poly partner feels very threatened in her status as my primary, and she is obsessively compelled to check you out in person so she can look for some ammunition with which to veto any potential relationship you and I could have. Would you mind bringing a body guard?

Poly phrase: I've told my poly partner all about you and he is so excited to meet you that we are both hoping you'll have dinner with us soon.

English translation: I've told my poly partner how attractive you are and we both hope to eat you for dinner soon.

Poly phrase: Being poly has made our sex lives even more WONDERFUL because while my primary partner and I REALLY love playing with each other, we also WELCOME the opportunity to meet interesting new people, and open to the presence of other special lovers in our lives!

English translation: Being poly has given my partner and I a very WELCOME excuse to have sex with new people which is WONDERFUL because we're REALLY sick of each other and our relationship with each other is falling apart!

Poly phrase: Our relationship could be characterized as a primary polyamorous connection which will organically evolve over time. Both of us are too sophisticated, open, level-headed, and rational to tolerate putting any limits on other people or ourselves.

English translation: We're each other's booby prize. Both of us are too selfish, poorly groomed, dysfunctional and crazy to find any other people to tolerate us.

Poly phrase: I don't know if our connection has each and every quality necessary for a successful primary relationship, however I would like to explore this further because I do care about you very much and really cherish our friendship.

English translation: I know I'd love to have sex and explore how orally talented you are right now because I'm very horny, however I don't like you enough to really spend much time with you.

Poly phrase: I am seriously interested in working out our secondary relationship in such a way that would make both of us happy. I'm wondering if we could both try to create more room in our lives for each other? I'm hoping you're thinking something similar.

English translation: It was fun being fuck buddies. Maybe we'll do it again in a few months? Or not.

Poly phrase: My primary partner and I have totally worked out our jealousy issues regarding the play parties we attend. I get thoroughly wet when I watch him share pleasure with other people! Loving communication and listening are our life's priorities.

English translation: My partner makes me feel totally psycho at every play party. I thoroughly punish him with my sublimated rage later when we're at home! Passive-aggressive behaviors and messages are our favorite pastime.

Poly phrase: "I'm very happy you're in a relationship and have found love, but to only express love for one person, I feel is not the "Way of Soul". "

English translation: "I could care less if you are in a relationship. I have an uncontrollable compulsion to shamelessly flirt, play games and have my kind of "fun" regardless of anyone else's feelings, and I can totally justify my behavior with spiritual rhetoric."

[FalconAngel]

I read your profile and all you want is some dick. Stop kidding yourself.

You say that you want to be friends first but then you say how you're only into smooth men and how race isn't a big deal yet Asian men are wanted and desired the most.

You're calling me a hypocrite because I'm saying that sexual attraction is the basis of most relationships and that it's even what you and your wife want with other people. :rolleyes:

Dream on and don't hold your breath when it comes to finding a single male to be a fuckbuddy with.

You wouldn't know him and you'd find something wrong with him even if he emailed you, you saw him in public, or found him on this website.

If you had read our profile, then you are trying to be a troll, because everyone who has read our profile knows, quite clearly, better than you. So you are either an idiot or a troll.
Of course, a seriously damaged individual would do and say all of the things that you and other trolls have.


Trolls, sung to the tune of "Stand"

Trolls in the place where we chat.
(No life twits)
We prefer the spammers, that the trolls are lower than.

Trolls in the chatroom on site.
(no good trolls)
Makes you kind of wonder what it is they get from it.

Go to the site and open the chat, Look in the forums, that's where the trolls at.
Oh, trolls!



I'll work on another verse if you want.

SHARPEN YOUR PITCHFORKS AND LIGHT THE TORCHES FOLKS!!! WE HAVE ANOTHER TROLL!!

[PlacentaJuan]

If you had read our profile, then you are trying to be a troll, because everyone who has read our profile knows, quite clearly, better than you. So you are either an idiot or a troll.
Of course, a seriously damaged individual would do and say all of the things that you and other trolls have.


Trolls, sung to the tune of "Stand"

Trolls in the place where we chat.
(No life twits)
We prefer the spammers, that the trolls are lower than.

Trolls in the chatroom on site.
(no good trolls)
Makes you kind of wonder what it is they get from it.

Go to the site and open the chat, Look in the forums, that's where the trolls at.
Oh, trolls!



I'll work on another verse if you want.

SHARPEN YOUR PITCHFORKS AND LIGHT THE TORCHES FOLKS!!! WE HAVE ANOTHER TROLL!!


You haven't convinced me otherwise in your profile or on your posts about being "poly". You and your wife still just want sex with another man.

Wow! You actually took the time to make a theme song for yourself!

[rissababynta]

Wow! You actually took the time to make a theme song for yourself!

...lame...

[Iowabiguy]

FalconAngel,
Clearly our Hydra/ troll wants to do nothing to forward this conversation in a positive nature. It has aggravated and disturbed me and you and many others and I feel rather foolish to have fallen for his provocations.
I realize that I said earlier for others to ignore its ravings and then I felt protective of the site and responded. Now it has shown itself for the vicious insensitive person that it is.
I will not engage it anymore!! I suggest that the only conversations we have with regards to this destructive creature is between each other. Warning one another about another incarnation is appropriate but responding to anything posted by this person is to invite its cruelty and insensitivity.
I am done with it and I hope everyone else will pledge to not respond to this person's posts as well.

[rissababynta]

Yes, a thought that would most definitely work. Unfortunately, there are more than a handful of people on this site that simply can not help themselves and must be on the defensive. All it takes is one person to respond and no matter how hard everyone tries, that is bound to happen...

[Iowabiguy]

So, since this thread is about polyamory, does anyone else have any other positive and/or constructive criticism of the site that was posted at the beginning of this thread?
How about interesting or informative stories about how polyamory is working or has worked for you?
I am interested in the wide variety of relationships that fall under the term polyamory or polyfidelity. Do you differentiate between the two terms?
Were you out to your current partner as poly early in your relationship or did it evolve later?
Do you consider yourself to be poly whether or not you have multiple partners? Is it an orientation or a label?
Just some things to throw out there to stir up some conversation.

[FalconAngel]

You haven't convinced me otherwise in your profile or on your posts about being "poly". You and your wife still just want sex with another man.

Wow! You actually took the time to make a theme song for yourself!

Wouldn't expect a troll to figure it out, which explains your continued ignorance. We never said that we were Poly, but you, troll, were not able to figure that out.

The song is for you: the troll.

Now you are going on ignore, since you are a troll and have demonstrated it quite clearly.

[FalconAngel]

FalconAngel,
Clearly our Hydra/ troll wants to do nothing to forward this conversation in a positive nature. It has aggravated and disturbed me and you and many others and I feel rather foolish to have fallen for his provocations.
I realize that I said earlier for others to ignore its ravings and then I felt protective of the site and responded. Now it has shown itself for the vicious insensitive person that it is.
I will not engage it anymore!! I suggest that the only conversations we have with regards to this destructive creature is between each other. Warning one another about another incarnation is appropriate but responding to anything posted by this person is to invite its cruelty and insensitivity.
I am done with it and I hope everyone else will pledge to not respond to this person's posts as well.

You are right. I made one parting shot then put the troll on ignore.

I know, I should have just done that to begin with, but I'm a bit of a fighter, so I at least had to get in my coup de tat.

[jeancarleo]

so what about MMFF relationship of 4 wouldn't workout or what? I would like to know about this kinda deal since I'm not the only one interested in something like that on this site I'm sure.

Why is there always people fighting on this site?

[FalconAngel]

Why is there always people fighting on this site?

We've had a dearth of trolls over the past few weeks and we can't get enough troll repellent to meet our needs.

[FalconAngel]

FalconAngel,
I think we have established that our not-so-friendly Hydra is NOT polyamorous nor does he want to understand it. I think though that you have used this discussion to point out some very interesting thoughts on relationships in general and polyamory specifically.
No one has ever said that polyamory is for everybody. Denying that it exists or belittling those who are polyamorous is as bad as being biphobic and just like biphobia it has ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE IN THESE FORUMS.

Am I reading that wrong? When did I ever say that it didn't exist or belittle those who are poly?

I have been a staunch defender of both it's existence and the fact that it can work. True, not for everyone, but that it can work for some.

[PlacentaJuan]

so what about MMFF relationship of 4 wouldn't workout or what? I would like to know about this kinda deal since I'm not the only one interested in something like that on this site I'm sure.

Why is there always people fighting on this site?

You're setting yourself up for triple or at least double the failure.

Women are notorious for getting jealous in relationships and many will get into a 3-4way relationship and then decide that they don't want their guy having sex with anyone else anymore but them, and that they no longer want an open relationship but they want a closed relationship that stays closed and monogamous.

Mrs. F's recent post about the guy she met and had sex with from a sex website online, called Dont have to be bi to be confused, is an example of how most women will wind up doing this.

[Iowabiguy]

Am I reading that wrong? When did I ever say that it didn't exist or belittle those who are poly?

I have been a staunch defender of both it's existence and the fact that it can work. True, not for everyone, but that it can work for some.

FalconAngel,
I apologize for the way that came off. I was letting my thinking about the Hydra overshadow my thinking. I tagged the ending on to the post to you when I should have made a second post directed at our troll/ Hydra.
I have decided not to respond any further to anything this person says and instead concentrate on a more healthy dialogue between the other persons on this site. I don't care what this person posts I will not respond. It only feeds his demented self. The more we talk to him the more openings he uses to bash people on this site.
So, no I don't believe that you are in any way against polyamory. In fact, I believe that you are one of the people on this site that understands what being poly is about.
Again, I am sorry for my response that could easily be misinterpreted. The more I re-read it the more it looked like a bash on you.

[FalconAngel]

FalconAngel,
I apologize for the way that came off. I was letting my thinking about the Hydra overshadow my thinking. I tagged the ending on to the post to you when I should have made a second post directed at our troll/ Hydra.
I have decided not to respond any further to anything this person says and instead concentrate on a more healthy dialogue between the other persons on this site. I don't care what this person posts I will not respond. It only feeds his demented self. The more we talk to him the more openings he uses to bash people on this site.
So, no I don't believe that you are in any way against polyamory. In fact, I believe that you are one of the people on this site that understands what being poly is about.
Again, I am sorry for my response that could easily be misinterpreted. The more I re-read it the more it looked like a bash on you.

I thought that it may have been something like that. I think that we all have those moments.

Just wanted to make sure before I went on to a rant.

I think that,under the current troll conditions, we are all a little guarded and more reactionary than normal.

[MissyMissy]

whatever anybody calls it so be it. for me i like to limit my sex partners for safety reasons. but i have had friends and we just didn't fuck. we also went out had fun talked about serious things. no relationship is perfect but none are lies either. no relationship is a lie. all take work. not all work ouot and some disappear and you find new ones. if you do not like open or poly or whatever relationships fine but it is sure difficult being bi in a monagamous relationship. there cannot be any openess if you are monogamous as far as i am concerned. in monagamy you are agreeing on being with only one and if that is your prefence fine but if you are bi and with just one and its the opposite sex it is hard to deny your urges and needs. i will not lie to others if i intend to be in a serious relationship with- friends, sex partners, bf/gf or more- honesty and finding someone who had preferences close to mine. so there is less anger, jealousy and such and those are normal feelings in any relationship that have to be addressed to see what is going on.
missy

[HighEnergy]

We've had a dearth of trolls over the past few weeks and we can't get enough troll repellent to meet our needs.

It's worrisome that some folks who actually want and need to be here for the support and camaraderie that can be found here will walk away.

[Delilah]

Just hit the iggy option or just don't pay attention.

Now back to your question. Can MMFF relationship work? A friend of mine is in that relationship for over 10 years. They are so bonded together, you can't pry them apart. They will be going with me to the St Pete Pride Fest next weekend. Falcon, I wish you and your wife would be there, I believe you would love these good hearted people. They don't care what outsiders think or even care about labels.
Yes, I do believe that three some and four some can last a long time. People are people just like couples. Some stayed together for a long time or forever or break up. I say just go with the flow and do whatever makes you and yours happy. Don't worry what the outsiders think.




so what about MMFF relationship of 4 wouldn't workout or what? I would like to know about this kinda deal since I'm not the only one interested in something like that on this site I'm sure.

Why is there always people fighting on this site?

[FalconAngel]

It's worrisome that some folks who actually want and need to be here for the support and camaraderie that can be found here will walk away.

You are absolutely right. Many of us are here for a multitude of reasons, just one of which is fellowship; and if people start to leave, then the trolls win.

That cannot happen. It must not happen. My current policy is to block all trolls as I identify them. Everyone else should, too.

If they start to harass you in private messages, then report them.

At that point, the site administration has the power to report those individuals to the correct authorities for legal action to take place against them. They cannot hide their ISP or address from the FBI, who handles internet crimes here in the US, nor does it stop INTERPOL, if our troll is from overseas.

[ThatSubliminalKid]

It's called learning to ignore the person.

I've been on message boards before where I got really nasty private messages, IMs, and emails from people on there and there's no point in reporting them, just ignore them.

Pick and choose your battles wisely.

Not too many people, like message board owners/admins, or other people on message boards even care about trolls/flaming, or if you got a nasty private message, IM, or email from someone else there.

They'll just tell you to suck it up and ignore it and not get your feelings hurt.