It's Official--Barak Obama is the Democratic Candidate for US President!

[12voltman59]

However what one feels about Barak Obama----he is now officially the Democratic Party's nominee for the US President which is an historic occassion---something that would also have been the case if Hillary had been successful in her bid to be the nomineee.

I came to like Obama during the course of this meat grinder process--he was not my first choice--I really liked Joe Biden, but it was certainly not his time and now will never be to run for the big one!

I have my reasons why I came to like Obama and settle on him as "my candidate"--I did want to say "my man"---but that might upset those who supported Hillary in large measure since she is a woman.

I was not really ever in favor of Hillary and my reasons for that had nothing at all to do with her gender or even her policy positions---it had to do with the fact that I find it profoundly contrary to what America is supposed to be about in that over 20 years---our presidents would be a Bush--Clinton--Bush and then another Clinton.

We are supposed to be a representative democracy----not a monarchy where the scepter of power is handed from one member of a few priviledged families to another!!!

In these past eight years of George W. Bush--by my reasoning---much of what America is supposed to be about has been pretty well thrashed if not downright destroyed and it is time to stop that and return us to a better track and correct the things our current leader has done that have hurt this nation and others.

Now--after a bit of mending fences and salving some wounds on both sides---Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton need to "get on the same page" and work towards not only the election this November, but to inauguration day 2009 when Barak Obama raises his hand and becomes the 44th President of the United States of America.

As far as Hillary being his VP choice--I really don't think that will happen---I am betting and hoping it will be Bill Richardson---he fits the bill on many counts.

[shameless agitator]

YES WE CAN!!! YES WE CAN!!!

[TaylorMade]

Wait, did Hillary actually concede?

*Taylor*

[shameless agitator]

Yeah, she's actually asked to be the VP.

[truckr221]

Please try to keep up people. As of 4AM on Wednesday June 4th. Hillary has NOT conceded. Nor did she ask to be VP. She said " she would consider it" IF she was asked.

Now on a personal note. If you were Mr. Obama would you ask her ??

[darkeyes]

However what one feels about Barak Obama----he is now officially the Democratic Party's nominee for the US President which is an historic occassion---something that would also have been the case if Hillary had been successful in her bid to be the nomineee.

I came to like Obama during the course of this meat grinder process--he was not my first choice--I really liked Joe Biden, but it was certainly not his time and now will never be to run for the big one!

I have my reasons why I came to like Obama and settle on him as "my candidate"--I did want to say "my man"---but that might upset those who supported Hillary in large measure since she is a woman.

I was not really ever in favor of Hillary and my reasons for that had nothing at all to do with her gender or even her policy positions---it had to do with the fact that I find it profoundly contrary to what America is supposed to be about in that over 20 years---our presidents would be a Bush--Clinton--Bush and then another Clinton.

We are supposed to be a representative democracy----not a monarchy where the scepter of power is handed from one member of a few priviledged families to another!!!

In these past eight years of George W. Bush--by my reasoning---much of what America is supposed to be about has been pretty well thrashed if not downright destroyed and it is time to stop that and return us to a better track and correct the things our current leader has done that have hurt this nation and others.

Now--after a bit of mending fences and salving some wounds on both sides---Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton need to "get on the same page" and work towards not only the election this November, but to inauguration day 2009 when Barak Obama raises his hand and becomes the 44th President of the United States of America.

As far as Hillary being his VP choice--I really don't think that will happen---I am betting and hoping it will be Bill Richardson---he fits the bill on many counts.Outsida the US we hav an interest an all... if nowt else 2 c who gonna b in charga tryin 2 push the rest of us around ova the next few years.. gud thing is Dems tend not 2 b quite so pushy.. but they still do it.. Obama or Hils? Not fussed.. ur choice tho not sure Obama the man for the job ne more than Hil.

An Voltie...don reely matta wich privileged buncha arseholes runs the place.. jus means the power an the reel privilege switches from 1 2 anotha... an they then go ahead an do ther own thing for ther own kind... notha advantage a Dems.. lil peeps an the poor tend 2 get a lil bit betta deal than from Repubs.. but mostly? Still the rich arseholes who do best an hav ther power an privilege cemented further in order a things! Bit like Labour an Tories ere... bollox innit?

[shameless agitator]

Please try to keep up people. As of 4AM on Wednesday June 4th. Hillary has NOT conceded. Nor did she ask to be VP. She said " she would consider it" IF she was asked.

Now on a personal note. If you were Mr. Obama would you ask her ??Honestly, I can't see what she has to offer him. He's pretty much got her supporters already. What he needs in a running mate is somebody who could court moderates & left leaning republicans. I think he would be better off asking Biden or Maybe Edwards.

[The Barefoot Contess]

Honestly, I can't see what she has to offer him. He's pretty much got her supporters already. What he needs in a running mate is somebody who could court moderates & left leaning republicans. I think he would be better off asking Biden or Maybe Edwards.

I disagree. I think Hillary would be a better choice to win the presidency. Now, if you ask me what my ideal ticket would be, that's a different question.

[TaylorMade]

Please try to keep up people. As of 4AM on Wednesday June 4th. Hillary has NOT conceded. Nor did she ask to be VP. She said " she would consider it" IF she was asked.

Now on a personal note. If you were Mr. Obama would you ask her ??

I wouldn't.

Putting anything between Hillary and power is like putting particle board between an Iron block and a rare earth magnet.

*Taylor*

[FalconAngel]

Well, I'm a Republican, but I don't believe that this country would survive 4 more years of Bush-like presidency. Frankly, I'm surprised that we've made it through the past 7 1/2 years of it.

On the other hand, with some of the things that the Democrats have done since taking control of the Senate and the House, like failing to impeach Bush/Cheney, et al, I'm not so sure that a Democrat is the right choice either.

Obama has said that this country needs a new direction and he's right about that, but there are other options besides Democrat or Republican. Both parties always say that we need a new direction, but neither party really gives us a new direction. It's always the same direction, but just a different route. And both parties get the same corporate sponsorship to support their campaigns.

We have all heard the old saw about if you vote other than Democrat or Republican, then you are throwing away your vote, but if enough people vote other than Dem or Rep, then the ones voting Dem or Rep are throwing away their vote.
And that's the problem. We all are suffering from the "follow the pack" mentality. We are all afraid to "throw away" our vote to make a real change.

Think about it. Right now, one out of 6 people vote other than Dem or Rep, effectively "throwing away" their votes, but if 3 out 6 people voted for the person who is truly giving us a new and better direction, then the 3 out of 6 who are voting either Dem or Rep are the ones "throwing away" their votes.

We must all vote our conscious rather than our party. we have bad presidents because we look at the candidates as they run, not their records prior to running.
We need to look at the records of these candidates before the started their bid for the highest office in the country.

Bush-boy ran every organization that he was in charge of into the ground, so when he ran for president, everyone who knew that said he was a bad choice. The "party" voters claimed that it wasn't going to happen with him in the White house. I guess they were wrong and the nay-sayers were right.

Obama is an unknown variable, but this much is certain; the office of the president is not there for political correctness. If he can really give the country what it needs, then he should be there. Not because he's black. Same for Clinton. Her record speaks for itself; she is completely unqualified for the office of President. Not because she is a woman, but because she is all for government intrusion into the rights of parents to raise their children without government interference. All of the DFS/DCF/DCFS abuses that have come out in the newspapers over the past 14 years have been because of her (and her husband's) support of these agencies.
That is not someone that belongs in the White House.

Then there's Ron Paul. His record has shown that he is in support of a return to constitutional controls of government, removing our troops from the civil war in Iraq and a return of parents rights, among other things. His biggest downside is that he is a "pro-choice" candidate. If he came into office, then there will be even more attempts to overturn Roe v Wade.

We will get bad and good with every candidate, but we must stop thinking about just getting the lesser of the evils and start thinking about getting the greater of the goods. Even if that means "throwing away" our votes.

Like I said; if more people "throw away" their votes, then less people are left to vote for a different path in the same, bad direction.

[jamieknyc]

Outsida the US we hav an interest an all... if nowt else 2 c who gonna b in charga tryin 2 push the rest of us around ova the next few years.. gud thing is Dems tend not 2 b quite so pushy.. but they still do it.. Obama or Hils? Not fussed.. ur choice tho not sure Obama the man for the job ne more than Hil.


Re: Dems pushing the rest of the world around: You don't remember Lyndon Johnson, but I do.

[curious married m]

Re: Dems pushing the rest of the world around: You don't remember Lyndon Johnson, but I do.

But Jamie that all got started with advisors in the Eisenhower era. Seems the US has never learned to smell the shit we stick our nose into before we step in it ass deep.

[jamieknyc]

But Jamie that all got started with advisors in the Eisenhower era. Seems the US has never learned to smell the shit we stick our nose into before we step in it ass deep.

No, Einsehower only continued the policies of the Roosevelt and Truman administrations. If isolationists want to look for comfort in America's past, they have to go back to the age of Calvin Cooldige and Herbert Hoover.

[shameless agitator]

Well, I'm a Republican, but I don't believe that this country would survive 4 more years of Bush-like presidency. Frankly, I'm surprised that we've made it through the past 7 1/2 years of it.

On the other hand, with some of the things that the Democrats have done since taking control of the Senate and the House, like failing to impeach Bush/Cheney, et al, I'm not so sure that a Democrat is the right choice either.

Obama has said that this country needs a new direction and he's right about that, but there are other options besides Democrat or Republican. Both parties always say that we need a new direction, but neither party really gives us a new direction. It's always the same direction, but just a different route. And both parties get the same corporate sponsorship to support their campaigns.

We have all heard the old saw about if you vote other than Democrat or Republican, then you are throwing away your vote, but if enough people vote other than Dem or Rep, then the ones voting Dem or Rep are throwing away their vote.
And that's the problem. We all are suffering from the "follow the pack" mentality. We are all afraid to "throw away" our vote to make a real change.

Think about it. Right now, one out of 6 people vote other than Dem or Rep, effectively "throwing away" their votes, but if 3 out 6 people voted for the person who is truly giving us a new and better direction, then the 3 out of 6 who are voting either Dem or Rep are the ones "throwing away" their votes.

We must all vote our conscious rather than our party. we have bad presidents because we look at the candidates as they run, not their records prior to running.
We need to look at the records of these candidates before the started their bid for the highest office in the country.

Bush-boy ran every organization that he was in charge of into the ground, so when he ran for president, everyone who knew that said he was a bad choice. The "party" voters claimed that it wasn't going to happen with him in the White house. I guess they were wrong and the nay-sayers were right.

Obama is an unknown variable, but this much is certain; the office of the president is not there for political correctness. If he can really give the country what it needs, then he should be there. Not because he's black. Same for Clinton. Her record speaks for itself; she is completely unqualified for the office of President. Not because she is a woman, but because she is all for government intrusion into the rights of parents to raise their children without government interference. All of the DFS/DCF/DCFS abuses that have come out in the newspapers over the past 14 years have been because of her (and her husband's) support of these agencies.
That is not someone that belongs in the White House.

Then there's Ron Paul. His record has shown that he is in support of a return to constitutional controls of government, removing our troops from the civil war in Iraq and a return of parents rights, among other things. His biggest downside is that he is a "pro-choice" candidate. If he came into office, then there will be even more attempts to overturn Roe v Wade.

We will get bad and good with every candidate, but we must stop thinking about just getting the lesser of the evils and start thinking about getting the greater of the goods. Even if that means "throwing away" our votes.

Like I said; if more people "throw away" their votes, then less people are left to vote for a different path in the same, bad direction.Strangely enough, we're on agreement on something political. *Runs to mark it on the calendar* The 2 party system is killing this country and since we're never going to get proportional representation under the current system the only way to correct it is for people to be willing to risk throwing away their votes on a candidate they don't think can win. Damn, now there's a run on sentence for ya lol.We don't even need the presidency or a majority in either congressional house either. Imagine if you will a small party winning 5-10 senate seats & voting as a block. Most of the important bills split down party lines, so neither of the major parties would be able to get a majority without this small group & they would be in a position to demand the kinds of changes they wanted. This could be the beginnings of a major rise to power. An old mantra in my world is "Vote your hopes, not your fears".

[darkeyes]

Re: Dems pushing the rest of the world around: You don't remember Lyndon Johnson, but I do.
jus a sad facta life Jamie..jus how it is.. govts of all persuasions in every country that thinks its top dog likes 2 think they can boss the world around.. brits wer no exception..so not excusin us eitha. But loathed Obama sayin that yas "r the worlds last bext hope..". Jeez. will no 1 eva learn?? Bloody arrogance!

[darkeyes]

.. an Jamie..message from me mum... Johnson wos no diff... ther wos a lil place called Vietnam e tried it on wiv jus for starters.. didn say yas wer always successful..:tong:

[meteast chick]

I've been a staunch supporter of Barack Obama since he ran for senator of my fair state, and am still a staunch supporter of him. I actually emailed his office well before his campaign and he, or they (doesn't matter to me), responded 2 days later. What was my question? Well he had yet to make it known his stand on gay marriage or civil union. He responded back that he was a supporter of civil union. I believe the only supporter of gay marriage was out of the running awhile ago!

I understand darkeyes in that this is primarily an American issue, but I for one am interested in knowing the international opinion on this issue. After all, the US is a huge supporter of other nations. While those in constitutional power in the US seem to want to push other nations around, if those in smaller nations could do it, you know they would!!!

I may just vote for McCain. After all, I have only been able to vote in 2 presidential elections so far and I voted Dem so I lost both times. Maybe I'll lose again so then Obama would get it if I voted Rep!!!

See ya in the White House in 2009!!!
luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxoxoxoxo
meteast

[darkeyes]

I understand darkeyes in that this is primarily an American issue, but I for one am interested in knowing the international opinion on this issue. After all, the US is a huge supporter of other nations. While those in constitutional power in the US seem to want to push other nations around, if those in smaller nations could do it, you know they would!!!

I may just vote for McCain. After all, I have only been able to vote in 2 presidential elections so far and I voted Dem so I lost both times. Maybe I'll lose again so then Obama would get it if I voted Rep!!!

See ya in the White House in 2009!!!
luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxoxoxoxo
meteastLuff the logic of votin 2 ensure McCain loses Rache... not summat me cud do but kno lots r a lil superstitious like that..

Boutya otha point Rache...thot me sed so more or less.. history fulla lil countries becumin big countries an pushin peeps around..mine did it pretty successfully for a cuppla hundred years..the French a lil less so.. an the mongols.. Rome did ok an all..an Egypt..an Persia... me point is..it don make it rite..if the US wants 2 b a truly gr8 nation..then it hasta stop it...lead by example ...not by coercion an bullyin.. no country is betta placed...

Almost forgot the 3rd point me hasta address..US only supports otha countries that fall in more or less in live wiv wot the US wants... aint all outa the gudness of ther heart..jus as British aid aint always outa the gudness of the Brit govts heart...its a forma coercion..do wotya told or no support...

U second person 2 use me Sunday name..beginnin 2 think me upsettin peeps in ere:rolleyes:

[meteast chick]

Luff the logic of votin 2 ensure McCain loses
U second person 2 use me Sunday name..beginnin 2 think me upsettin peeps in ere:rolleyes:


Aw Frannie, didn't mean ta upset ya darlin'!

Yes indeed, the powerhouse that the US is uses its heft to bully nations that bully other more fallible ones. We don't see it from an outsiders perspective, so it's interesting to me at least.

[azirish]

There are no "elected presidents" only "selected" ones. Either way, nothing will change. Sorry to dissapoint Voltman.

[darkeyes]

Aw Frannie, didn't mean ta upset ya darlin'!

Yes indeed, the powerhouse that the US is uses its heft to bully nations that bully other more fallible ones. We don't see it from an outsiders perspective, so it's interesting to me at least.

Kno me slags off the US a lot Rache..God knos its deserved..least me thinks so ne way... an mayb me neva gives it credit for the gud... but its the bad wich influences otha countries attitudes an gets ther baks up..the oft 1 sidedness of ther policies spesh in the mid east .. an the way they throw ther weight bout.. but the scary thing Rache..the reelly scary ting... is if the west, of wich the US is the dominant state an gr8est influence blows it..wich it seems 2 b doin... ther a rite scary lot jus waitin in the wings 2 reely give the world a hard time..an they don give a shite bout human rites, democracy or liberty of ne kind.... an they already makin lil inroads an gainin influence wiv many poorer countries that we shud b poopin ourselves ova,

The reely scary thing is that the world..from the gr8est nations down 2 crappie wee sports organisations (AKA the IOC) r panderin 2 em an gettin ther faces spat on... the outcum? They do wot they like an sod every 1 else... now them me finds reely scary.

Now wot me wondas is Obama gonna do bout them?? Me waits wiv baited breath... wich me adds..me won bait 2 long...

Kissie Rache

[Gina7777]

Another opinion from the UK -
I got interested in Obama some time ago and read his book 'The Audacity of Hope' and was very impressed. I think his proposals for a different health system in the US sound good. We moan about the National Health Service in the UK but you don't have to start saving up when your child needs a serious operation as many do in the States. And the right to bear arms - is it true that Obama is hoping to curb the availability of firearms, while Clinton is not? I know it's a basic constitutional thing that Americans are proud of, but i do feel it's a big mistake to make it easy for people to own guns. It must be so much easier to fire a gun when you're angry ... then regret afterwards. I think I would have shot a few people by now!!
I would be really impressed if Obama becomes the next American President! But i would also fear very much for his life. (Those guns again.)

[vittoria]

However what one feels about Barak Obama----he is now officially the Democratic Party's nominee for the US President which is an historic occassion---something that would also have been the case if Hillary had been successful in her bid to be the nomineee.

I came to like Obama during the course of this meat grinder process--he was not my first choice--I really liked Joe Biden, but it was certainly not his time and now will never be to run for the big one!

I have my reasons why I came to like Obama and settle on him as "my candidate"--I did want to say "my man"---but that might upset those who supported Hillary in large measure since she is a woman.

I was not really ever in favor of Hillary and my reasons for that had nothing at all to do with her gender or even her policy positions---it had to do with the fact that I find it profoundly contrary to what America is supposed to be about in that over 20 years---our presidents would be a Bush--Clinton--Bush and then another Clinton.

We are supposed to be a representative democracy----not a monarchy where the scepter of power is handed from one member of a few priviledged families to another!!!

In these past eight years of George W. Bush--by my reasoning---much of what America is supposed to be about has been pretty well thrashed if not downright destroyed and it is time to stop that and return us to a better track and correct the things our current leader has done that have hurt this nation and others.

Now--after a bit of mending fences and salving some wounds on both sides---Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton need to "get on the same page" and work towards not only the election this November, but to inauguration day 2009 when Barak Obama raises his hand and becomes the 44th President of the United States of America.

As far as Hillary being his VP choice--I really don't think that will happen---I am betting and hoping it will be Bill Richardson---he fits the bill on many counts.


Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm---

Lets remember where we live, shall we??

This is the United States. Where if you want freedom and justice and equality as the face of America, youre a goner.

Its that simple.

Two Kennedys and a King ago, we were hoping to overcome...while riding in a Lincoln as well (isnt it ironic... dont you think http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkcoincidences.shtml )

Lets just hope that Barack doesnt get shot as well, okay? :2cents:

[Doggie_Wood]

Wait, did Hillary actually concede?

*Taylor*

She will at the end of the week - and I suspect she will refuse to take the second seat.

IMO :doggie:

[Doggie_Wood]

I disagree. I think Hillary would be a better choice to win the presidency. Now, if you ask me what my ideal ticket would be, that's a different question.

Ideal ticket = Fred Thompson and Fred Flintstone

[shameless agitator]

Another opinion from the UK -
I got interested in Obama some time ago and read his book 'The Audacity of Hope' and was very impressed. I think his proposals for a different health system in the US sound good. We moan about the National Health Service in the UK but you don't have to start saving up when your child needs a serious operation as many do in the States. And the right to bear arms - is it true that Obama is hoping to curb the availability of firearms, while Clinton is not? I know it's a basic constitutional thing that Americans are proud of, but i do feel it's a big mistake to make it easy for people to own guns. It must be so much easier to fire a gun when you're angry ... then regret afterwards. I think I would have shot a few people by now!!
I would be really impressed if Obama becomes the next American President! But i would also fear very much for his life. (Those guns again.) Great points Gina & for the most part the same reasons I've been volunteering for the Obama campaign. As far as the gun issue though, all three of the candidates, well 2 now, would curb gun rights. This is actually really frustrating to me. I'm pretty much an uberliberal, in fact I usually tell people I'm a bit left of Trotsky. So how does somebody that far left wind up working for a gun rights group? Simple. One of these days somebody like Bush is going to refuse to leave office. When that happens, I want an AK-47

[TaylorMade]

She will at the end of the week - and I suspect she will refuse to take the second seat.

IMO :doggie:


As a sufferer of electile dysfunction, I'm not aroused by anybody on the plate now, but at least the "worst" may be over.

*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

I'm pretty much an uberliberal, in fact I usually tell people I'm a bit left of Trotsky. So how does somebody that far left wind up working for a gun rights group? Simple. One of these days somebody like Bush is going to refuse to leave office. When that happens, I want an AK-47

God Agit..knew ther wos a reason me liked u so much..... but a lil concerned bout the AK-47 bit like ne gud pacifist anya attitude 2 guns in genral a lil iffy 2 say the least!!!! Don havta kill peeps 2 hav a gud revolution.... been plenty bad revolutions involvin wholesale slaughter...revolution built on death is a revolution destined 2 b no revolution at all!

[12voltman59]

I agree with the points about the Dems and Republicans not being much of a choice--we really do need proportional representation here in the US----this lock the two party system has on this country and I dare say--since the US is the 800 pound gorilla in the world and at least for the foreseeable future--the US is the lone superpower and what we do for good or ill affects just about everyone else----we really need to build a better mouse trap---the US and the world deserve much better.

As far as Barak is concerned---I am sure that what he would as president could not be worse than what we have had these past almost eight years and McCain would also be an improvement----I suppose that is not saying much since I really believe that the Bush 43 presidency has been disasterious in just about every manner possible----

For better or worse---it is either now going to be McCain or Obama---we can only hope that whichever one of these men gets to sit behind that big desk in the Oval Office--they will do things far more reasonably and competently than what we have had to endure since January 2001!!

[captslaprock]

I AGREE WITH FALCON ANGEL
THE DIRECTION THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO GO IN WILL NOT BE SERVED BY EITHER OF THE BIG 2
WE HAVE FAR MORE PROBLEMS THAT BY PICKING THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS WON'T HELP US ANYMORE
THEY KEEP HOLLERING ABOUT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE....THAT'S FINE BUT TELL ME HOW PUTTING THAT IN PLACE IS GOING TO HELP WITH THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WE FACE
WHAT'S THAT?
5% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION BURNS 45% OF IT'S GASOLINE
THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS, WE HAVE 5% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION BUT WE BURN 45% OF THE GASOLINE
THE ANSWER ISN'T DRILLING MORE HOLES.....LEAVE ALASKA ALONE
IT'S MANNING UP & BE WILLING TO GO TO AN ALTERNATIVE
CORN WON'T WORK EITHER....YOU COULD MOVE EVERY SOUL IN THE US TO THE BORDERS AROUND THE UNITED STATES & PLANT EVERY ACRE IN CORN & IT WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH FOR US TO MAINTAIN THE WAY WE DRIVE & FLY NOW
IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE
I JUST DON'T SEE IT COMING FROM EITHER OF THE BIG TWO RUNNING

[TaylorMade]

Call this an anecdotal reason, but the last time we had a true multiparty political situation. . .we got the Civil War.

My theory is that the fear of a true multiparty system has been sublimated from that situation.

I am fully willing to be wrong here though. :)

*Taylor*

[HighEnergy]

I've been an Obama supporter. He inspires me. We saw him in person in Dayton, and he really wowed the crowd.

This morning I see the news is he's asked the DNC to not take PAC money. I am VERY impressed! That takes some serious guts!

Idiots with guns in this country do scare me. I had a person over last weekend helping me put together a pool for my kids. I've spent some time with this person and thought him a reasonably intelligent individual. First he made some comment about a black person looking at the house for sale across the street from me and started on about property values. I was shocked. This person is a client of mine and I'm thinking I'm about to lose money to feed my family by telling him he's an idiot. Later he says maybe he ought to buy the house across the street from me himself. I couldn't resist saying that I didn't want bigots moving into my neighborhood, they fuck up the property values. He said point taken and shut up.

But after a few more cocktails, he says if no one else pulls the trigger, he will because it has to be done. I could't stand it. I went nuts saying I hope to hell there will be enough intelligent folks who can see that there are more important issues at hand to let something so stupid as race be the primary issue! Can you not see that the rich in this country are creating a feudal state all over again with health care being the new land? Are you not watching your civil liberties being destroyed in the name of fear?

Well needless to say, I've lost another client. Thank God! There is one bit of bright yet terrible news. They are closing the GM plant near us (very bad, very bad) but they are closing it because it builds SUVs and folks ain't gonna buy 'em. FINALLY! But the idiotic thing is, GM intends to build a NEW plant on farm land up north to build more economical cars instead of retool this one. So, farm land will be concreted over, and we're stuck with an empty concrete jungle. ARGH! Now what did I do with that Joni Mitchell cd?

[darkeyes]

A multi party system aint up 2 much more than jus a 2 party 1 Taylor.. not wile they all up the backsides of powerful wealthy vested interest groups whose support loss scares em moren losin votes... its only marginally more healthy long as ther is no reel difference tween party policies.. me keeps hearin this expression "concensus politics" .. wtf we hav multi party poltics if peeps wan concensus politics? An the expression "healin the nations wounds"... jeez..notha way a sayin the same thing.. ifya hav democracy..ya needs parties wiv policies miles apart.. reel choice.. peeps an parties who stand on principle an wot they reely believe an argue accordingly an aint in hock 2 big biz, the rich, unions or ne 1 else..cept of course the electorate. Nun of us live in true democracies cos they all idealogically bankrupt an so fulla greed it makes me wonna throw up...

Ya civil war quote wos enlightenin but think we r mostly mature enuff 2 avoid that in mos countries... not all will grant ya..but in most established so called democracies... an think the past an ya own civil war has left scars enuff on the American psyche that yas will go 2 ends the earth 2 avoid that.. even allowin for summa the nutcases who run bout in mountains an forests an the like wiv ther guns reddy 2 defy govt if they try an do wot they r sposed 2 2 much..govern...

For 1ce me not scoffin atya ere cos me c's werya cummin from... but within the Dems an Repubs ther r peeps wiv hugely differin views.. an they jus cant get them views heard unless they join 1a them parties... an that in itself is a hamper 2 true debate an democracy cos those views..least so many of em r subsumed an lost within the party 2 wich they belong. Bout time America began seriously 2 thinka moren jus Dem an Repub, cos then those views wud b more easily heard as the 2 monsters disintegrated unda the weight of ther own moribund mediocrity an vibrant young parties wiv reel ideas began 2 make inroads inta the American conciousness an provide reel alternatives..

[darkeyes]

Idiots with guns in this country do scare me.

Me an all HE hun..prob bout guns..they can turn ne 1 who has 1 inta a bloody idiot..

[TaylorMade]

Me an all HE hun..prob bout guns..they can turn ne 1 who has 1 inta a bloody idiot..

Um... there are a lot of responsible gun owners of all political stripes, probably quite a few of them on this very board.

Are they idiots too?

*Taylor*

[bhg08054]

Me an all HE hun..prob bout guns..they can turn ne 1 who has 1 inta a bloody idiot..

As far as I'm concerned calling a gun owner is an idiot is as objectional as calling a gay man a faggot, or a black one a n----- I don't understand how someone who comes to a place like this to get away from discrimination and hateful speech towards one group of people can even begin to think it is acceptable to be discriminatory and hateful towards another!

[HighEnergy]

As far as I'm concerned calling a gun owner is an idiot is as objectional as calling a gay man a faggot, or a black one a n----- I don't understand how someone who comes to a place like this to get away from discrimination and hateful speech towards one group of people can even begin to think it is acceptable to be discriminatory and hateful towards another!

I didn't say anyone with a gun was an idiot. I know lots of responsible hunters and target enthusiasts. But I am worried about bigots.

[captslaprock]

I DON'T COMPREND WELL SOMETIMES BUT I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING WHAT HIGH ENERGY MEANT WHEN SHE WAS SPEAKING OF THE DUMMY WITH THE GUN
LET'S CHILL FOLKS WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO OPINIONS

[darkeyes]

Me an all HE hun..prob bout guns..they can turn ne 1 who has 1 inta a bloody idiot..

OK..let me do this in proper English so that you are able to comprehend without getting your knickers in a twist...

Translation: Me too HE honey. The problem with guns is that they can turn anyone who has one into a bloody idiot.

Please not the insertion of the word "can" into both the original Franspeak post and the English translation. Now correct me if I am mistaken, but by using the word can, I have made the point that having one has the ability to turn someone into an idiot. NOT, that by definition, every person who owns a gun or guns is one. Many who own and use guns are indeed idiots. Many are simply nasty pieces of work. Many are decent human beings who I believe are mistaken in having ownership of a firearm or firearms.

Now those who object to what I said, please do so on what was actually said and reason accordingly. Not on what it appears you think I have said. Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

[Da-Kitsune]

The interns are safe ... The interns are safe

Just think of Bill wandering the halls with nothing to do LOL but on another note I profici that within oh Ill be generous and say 2 years Hillary and him split and a tell all book appears blaming Bill for ruining her run for the White House

[vittoria]

OK..let me do this in proper English so that you are able to comprehend without getting your knickers in a twist...

Translation: Me too HE honey. The problem with guns is that they can turn anyone who has one into a bloody idiot.

Please not the insertion of the word "can" into both the original Franspeak post and the English translation. Now correct me if I am mistaken, but by using the word can, I have made the point that having one has the ability to turn someone into an idiot. NOT, that by definition, every person who owns a gun or guns is one. Many who own and use guns are indeed idiots. Many are simply nasty pieces of work. Many are decent human beings who I believe are mistaken in having ownership of a firearm or firearms.

Now those who object to what I said, please do so on what was actually said and reason accordingly. Not on what it appears you think I have said. Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

Frannie my luffly, oh how i have missed thee... :bigrin:

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Whoopie. I dont care if he's black, white, pink, purple or chartruse, as long as he does something to help the Nation.
I dont like politics no matter Who it is. I just want somebuddy to go look for some more dead dinosaurs, and fix the friggin gas problems...lol
Cat

[shameless agitator]

From my perspective, Obama is far from being the ideal candidate. I originally supported Edwards because of his outlook on poverty issues. There are a lot of inequities within our country I would like to see addressed that he doesn't even talk about, but I believe he's the best candidate we've had in a long long time & I'm hopeful he will be one of the best presidents we've had. We really need at this time someone who can be what shrub kept trying to claim " a uniter, not a divider" and I believe Obama can be that for us. He can bring people together and inspire them much as JFK did.

[Cuntlapper]

YES WE CAN!!! YES WE CAN!!!

Take some Lithium or get some EST before you go all manic and wind up hurting yourself or someone who you love.

[chuck1124]

This is going to be a difficult campaign. I agree, its tough to vote for "the lesser of two evils" but that is what we are left with. A third party would be something that may change things, but that, my friends, would take a very long time to accomplish. It can be done, but I would suggest it start in the smaller, congressional elections, rather than the presidential. The problem with the govenment is not so much the president as it is the legislature. For me, any incumbent, will not get my vote, be he/she Democrat or Republican. If the turnover continues and we eliminate the life-long politicians, we would surely be better off. As for Obama. Don't believe a thing in the media. We are not getting the whole story. I recommend reading his biography, his own words. Obama is a wolf in sheeps clothing. He will be a diaster for this country, as surely a Jimmy Carter was.

[darkeyes]

This is going to be a difficult campaign. I agree, its tough to vote for "the lesser of two evils" but that is what we are left with. A third party would be something that may change things, but that, my friends, would take a very long time to accomplish. It can be done, but I would suggest it start in the smaller, congressional elections, rather than the presidential. The problem with the govenment is not so much the president as it is the legislature. For me, any incumbent, will not get my vote, be he/she Democrat or Republican. If the turnover continues and we eliminate the life-long politicians, we would surely be better off. As for Obama. Don't believe a thing in the media. We are not getting the whole story. I recommend reading his biography, his own words. Obama is a wolf in sheeps clothing. He will be a diaster for this country, as surely a Jimmy Carter was.
TF me don liv in America..do nunna ya eva vote on principle, belief, philosophy an ideology? Or they jus nasty swear words ova ther? Gettin that way here an all an gettin 2 b down rite dispiritin me can tellya...:(

[shameless agitator]

TF me don liv in America..do nunna ya eva vote on principle, belief, philosophy an ideology? Or they jus nasty swear words ova ther? Gettin that way here an all an gettin 2 b down rite dispiritin me can tellya...:(Some of us do Fran, but it's generally a foregone conclusion that the winner will be from one of the two major parties, so people are afraid of "wasting" their vote if they cast it for anybody else. There's also frequently one candidate so frightening *cough cough* McCain *cough cough* that you'll vote for anybody you think can beat them.

[darkeyes]

Some of us do Fran, but it's generally a foregone conclusion that the winner will be from one of the two major parties, so people are afraid of "wasting" their vote if they cast it for anybody else. There's also frequently one candidate so frightening *cough cough* McCain *cough cough* that you'll vote for anybody you think can beat them.
Sad ole world Agit hun... me dad reckons me hopes that the world will always b shite cos if utopia eva came 2 pass me wud hav sod all 2 shout an bawl bout.. e thinks me wud sumhow develop summat me thot wos even betta jus 2 relieve the tedium an hav sum reason 2 protest an moan... stata the world sumhow don think e has 2 much 2 worry bout ther huh? tee hee:tong: Enuff 2 keep me goin till the world c's the backa me!;):bigrin:

[**Peg**]

Recently, a woman buddy of mine asked who I would vote for were I American. This person explained my stance much better than I could have:

from the article

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1812050,00.html?xid=site-cnn-partner

..."some women .... don't want to rally behind a female candidate simply because she is a woman."

and ... "Women often tell me it's important to get more of them elected so they can change the tenor of politics....

Obama was perceived as "... the girl in the race," explains Marie Wilson, head of the White House Project, a nonprofit that helps women move into positions of leadership. "Clinton came out tough; she voted for the war. Obama came out as the person bringing people together and offering messages of hope and reconciliation."

and as much of a hindrance her asshole of a husband was, I believe THAT is the reason she lost the nomination. I don't care for the characterization of "the girl" but I understand what Wilson meant.. and her remark of "hope and reconciliation" as if they are distinctly female traits... NOT - just glad she said it and not me LOL.

anyway, there is NO way I would have voted for Hillary simply because she was a woman. I wish we had an Obama-style leader in Canada, our prime minister is.... *words fail me* (if you can believe THAT) :eek:

JMO + :2cents:

[Gina7777]

Exactly ... having a woman a leader is not necessarily a good thing - look at Margaret Thatcher! Imo she set the position of British women back two decades! And she happily took us into the war over the Falkland Islands, where many of us were sure further negotiation could have prevented it.

[PolyLoveTriad]

I say we throw all the candidates out and get brand new ones lol I stay out of politcs all together. No matter how it turns out, someones gonna be pissed :)

I was laying in bed with my hubby last night when they were talking about the whole meeting Obamallamadama and mr hillary had (sorry I cant stand either of them) and I said to my husband, I can see it now....

Hillary accepts the vp. Scenario 1, she has him assassinated 2 yrs into the presidency so that she can make history being the first female president. Scenario 2, she pays him off and he steps down from the presidency due to personal reasons ie I have a lump in my ass from a fat wallet syndrome.

Makes me wonder... they both get to make history that way dont they?

And for the record, I don't like any of the candidates this go around. Im refusing to vote and nope, I will not be complaining about who wins, because I didnt vote.

[darkeyes]

prob wiv votin for personality an not principle an policy wotyas sayin hun... but ya scenario is fun speculation... tee hee:tong: Not so if its wot Hils has in mind.. :eek:

[brattyetxone]

am a dem,but voting rep.obma is trouble big time

[darkeyes]

am a dem,but voting rep.obma is trouble big time

This post been nigglin way at me since me 1st read it... not makin an accusation of racism ere but weneva ther a ground breakin candidate for ne thin lotsa normally sane polticos an normally sane party peeps switch 2 the oppositon... same wudda happened had obama been bi or gay..tho prob more so.. or had Hils won the nomination.. the sexist vote wudda switched (an not all me add wud they hav been men!!).

Ifya believe in a party an its policies...do ya honestly switch 2 summat ya h8 jus cosa the candidate?? Jeez..wer that 2 happen me wudda been votin Tory ere for mosta the las 10 years!! Me entire adult life...sad ole world huh?:rolleyes::(

[ready484u]

You should vote for the person you think is best for the job dark eyes not for the party.You should only vote for the one you feel right about no matter what.

[dick8823]

God help America!

[darkeyes]

You should vote for the person you think is best for the job dark eyes not for the party.You should only vote for the one you feel right about no matter what.

An this means wot precisely? Jus confirms me belief that in the US yas hav a much different idea of wot politics is than ne wer else.... ther no place for peeps personal vision, principles an the kind a society an world they wanna c? Cos if ther is hun, then its gettin the person who is most likely 2 move ya own ideas an beliefs along farthest in the job a runnin ya country.. an that means ya havta get ya woman or man in a position wer she or e can stand in the 1st place.... an that 2 me means involvin mesel in, an votin for the PARTY wich most closely reflects me vision of the world, an bein active in gettin the party best able 2 get me the progress me wants 2 c in power. The UK vote for a govt an legislature as a package not a ticket of 2 an then seperately a legislature. Sad fact is that the British people seem 2 have forgotten that, an the cult of prickonality takin ova how our politics r run but the principle still stands. So, as a socialist..me shud vote Tory cos Cameron nice smooth dog end? Or if American..me shud vote McCain? No hun..me votes always on principle an belief an that by definition precludes ne party or individual from gettin me vote who aint also a socialist, or at the very least a social democrat. So ya votes for the party.. jus so happens the person ya think is best for the job happens 2 b a member of that party..an ifya has beliefs an principles an a vision of the world ya wonts 2 c... thats as it shud b...