Why all the bi-men?

[viajero]

Last night I was in Miami having dinner with an ex and his new bf. I told them about the hunk I had sex with the night before and how he was bi. My ex’s bf eventually started in on his feeling that everyone has a preference of one sex over the other. It sounded like a typical attempt to invalidate bisexuality and led to a good half hour debate. Nothing was resolved and I eventually felt we were going in circles.

When we parted I realized we were right across the street from a sex club that I thought was closed on Monday nights. I decided to pay it a visit. Within five minutes of arriving a nice looking Brazilian follows me into a corner on the outside deck. The first thing out of his mouth is to ask me if I like women too. “Does it matter”, I ask. “I have a girlfriend” he says, “And we like having threesomes.”

I have not had much luck with my sex or love life close to home. I’ve only had sex three times in this state since I moved here. Once with a curious married guy I met on the net, another time with a married guy from the gym and the third was a hot young bi-guy I met mountain biking. I’m not comfortable having regular sex with married men. I would have loved to continue with the young guy but he lives in the mountains, has a girlfriend and is more than 20 years younger than me.

With the dearth of opportunities at home I tend to seek my much needed sexual relief when I travel. Last night as I was going to bed it occurred to me that of the last six guys I’ve had sex with, five are either bi or straight curious. When I first came out in my 20s an encounter with a bi-guy was somewhat rare and I never had sex with straight curious guys. I retrospect I remember conversations with straight guys who knew I was gay that always left me a bit confused. As I’ve been getting older I’ve noticed the bi-men having been steadily increasing. I do not seek them out as I don’t really care if a guy identifies as bi, gay or straight. Yet I find it curious that the trend from the rare bi sex partner to the rare gay sex partner.

Here are some of my feelings as to why this is happening but I’d be interested in others opinions.

1.When I was younger I frequented gay bars now I don’t have time for such nonsense. I meet my partners at nude beaches, gyms, and sex clubs. I’ve noticed on many gay message boards that there is a stigma about sex for the sake of sex. In fact many of the guys become sanctimonious and preach about the fact that you will never find love if you act like such a libertine (or slut to use their language). It is my theory that bi-men don’t carry this baggage. Nor do European men. In fact in Europe and Australia I meet far more gay men then bi-men.
2.Age: I’m pushing 50 and although I get plenty of compliments about my appearance and how I look younger the fact remains I don’t look or act like a boy. Even if I look five or nearly 10 years younger I still look 40-something. I think many gay men want a guy close to the age or younger. The guys I meet are obviously not looking for boy-toys.
3.I accept the ambiguity of sex more than I did when I was younger.

Have any of the other guys or gals noticed such trend in their sex lives?

[eddy10]

Part of the "revolution" might be that in the 'olden' days most folks thought in terms of either straight or gay. Now, with the advent of the internet, and the rapidly expanding store of knowledge, more of us realize there might be a middle ground. I for one a so glad we have rediscovered bisexuality.

[12voltman59]

This is an interesting phenomenon that so many guys well in the middle years are "finding" their "bisexual" side after many years of considering themselves totally heterosexual and living as such--I fall into that category myself---

I really don't know why this is the case----I do think that the internet has helped many men to explore this side of themselves---perhaps this has always been something that does happen to men but due to having lived a life as a "straight man" for all of their lives and they felt uncomfortable with the fact they had "desires" to be with other men sexually if not other ways----and they did not know how to go about exploring this part of themselves they were finding---and went to their grave still having such desires----but too set in a proscribed life to think of really finding out what it meant to them---

I guess the same is true for the ladies as well---they might have wanted to "taste the forbidden fruit" as well--but once again--did not know how to go about doing anything--unless some situation "just happened" some day or some night....

I guess we can be thankful we live in a time that we have a resource like the internet and that thanks to this--society is starting to realize--that many people do consider themselves to be something other than simply being "straight!"

I really think that this is not anything new--its not like there is some turning point in human evolution that makes people bisexual---I know that not everyone believes this-but I hold to my notion that if the barriers, taboos, mores, etc. of society was not so much against the notion of bisexuality---then a very high percentage of people would at some point in their lives--would have sexual and emotional relationships with persons of the same gender if they did not have to pay a high price to do so.

Just my thoughts on this--I don't have all the answers- these are simply my feelings, observations and conclusions regarding this subject--but whatever you believe--you have to agree---it is rather interesting to say the least!

[Daviecurious]

As another who has come to terms w/my sexual orientation later in life, I believe it is a matter of coming to terms with who I am. Some people know much earlier in life; others (like me, I guess) get involved in careers, ect. before allowing themselves to explore feelings that have existed for a long time.

[warmpuppy]

Perhaps a day will come (not in my lifetime) when bisexuality is the norm rather than the exception. As we continue to grow as a civilization, these old social mores will disappear from the landscape. It will someday be OK to do things with other people because they feel good, and few will make a big deal of it.

What stands in the way in our culture is the family model, i.e., a Mom, a Dad and 2.5 kids. Any behaviour that deviates from that model is going to be met with some resistance.

[Raindrops+Sunshowers]

I am kind of a strange case. Perhaps I'll try to summarize it without also novelizing. :-)

Maybe an itemize will help:

- I am married since 1999 to a wonderful woman.
- She was my one and only, and still is, of either gender.
- I have always been painfully shy and socially withdrawn.
- I dabbled with the idea of being bi back in college, in 92-94, but didn't test the waters at all, unfortunately.
- Put the matter aside because trying on the label (bi) "didn't feel like me".
- But now... I am reopening myself to myself. And realizing that I actually do feel more like me when I can open up to my gay side.
- I want to explore this other side of me somehow.
- I have some neuroses to do with my shyness vs my own image of my masculinity. (Somehow I internalized emasculation based on "not getting any" for the longest time.)

So, any ho, I want to get out of my personal rut and open up to a whole side of my existence, experience some loveliness (which my wife is open to, thankfully), and disentangle all of the bullshit in my self-identity.

I think I've been carrying a bit of a load of homophobia (even though on the surface and philosophically, intellectually, I'm open and empathic and "tolerant" and enjoying human diversity). Internalized manhood issues.

Well, I guess I can stop the rambling here. :-)

[Mystic]

Being Bi is really having the best of both worlds. I found out I was really Bi about 20 years ago with a couple that showed me how great it really was. The biggest problem I have found is finding the right partner. It's just as hard to find a great guy as it is a great woman. The right chemistry has a lot to do with it. The older I get the more I get into being a CD and love the feel of lingerie on my body and fantasies about being with a well endowed guy and just giving him some great oral satisfaction and anal. But it's hard to find a guy or gal that will actually let you role play out your fantasy with them. Oh well I keep trying.

[Papelucho]

I am kind of a strange case. Perhaps I'll try to summarize it without also novelizing. :-)

...
- But now... I am reopening myself to myself. And realizing that I actually do feel more like me when I can open up to my gay side...
So, any ho, I want to get out of my personal rut and open up to a whole side of my existence, experience some loveliness (which my wife is open to, thankfully), and disentangle all of the bullshit in my self-identity.
I think I've been carrying a bit of a load of homophobia (even though on the surface and philosophically, intellectually, I'm open and empathic and "tolerant" and enjoying human diversity). Internalized manhood issues.

Well, I guess I can stop the rambling here. :-)

Your post inspired a response...
I am a guy who has been fighting my own homosexual feelings for about four years. It has been very destructive to my life because I make masks instead of being myself. This affects all parts of my life in a negative way, even things that have nothing to do with it. I've found that when I embrace my homosexuality, my heterosexuality becomes stronger too. I think that this means my sexuality in general becomes stronger and healthier. It goes to show that going against the flow is a mistake.
Now I'm trying to overcome my internalized hetorosexism by coming on here every day, and trying to form relationships with people from the GLBT community. Does anyone else have any suggestions of how I can get past the hang ups that prevent me from embracing my sexuality?

[viajero]

Papelucho,

If you live in Upstate NY and are only 26 it may not be very easy. I just moved to a metro area of about 1.5 million and I find it small compared to the other areas I’ve lived. Many Americans are uncomfortable about sex and the harder it is to be anonymous the more stress you are likely to feel about your feelings.

Sex can be fun, playful and clean or it can be degrading, humiliating and even dangerous. The more at peace you are with yourself and your choices the more likely you are to have the former experience rather than the latter. My experience is that men who repress their feelings end up doing stupid things later on. I’ve also found that my M2M sexual experiences have helped me to feel confident and self-assured in other parts of my life. Do what you know is best for you not what others decide is best for you.

[jem_is_bi]

I have been more homosexual than heterosexual all my life. I never acted on my homosexual desires until I was 58 years old. I am not aware of any major negative issues in my life as a result of my choice to live as a heterosexual. Despite suppressing my sexuality, when I look back on my life, I see a whole lot of accomplishment and fun to balance the grief. If I could live my life over again, I would not change a thing, including M2M that I experience now. I have always aggressively pursued what I need, when I decide it is time that I need to have it.
This may not be the optimum way to get from birth to death, but you live your life with few regrets.

[bisexualman]

I am not sure I can answer your complete question. What I will say is that when I was growing up I was basically told you were either gay or straight and gay was something that was dangerous to be. You could get seriously hurt where I grew up. Despite the fact that I had girlfriends and boyfriends I eventually convinced myself I should be one or the other. It is easier to comply to the social norm than be somewhere not definable. Hence, at 46 I have finally accepted I am bisexual. Fortunately my wife of 23 years, who knows me completely, is willing to accept me as I am. I see society as generally more accepting.

[someotherguy]

The internet has taken the closet door off its hinges.

[jamieknyc]

This is an interesting phenomenon that so many guys well in the middle years are "finding" their "bisexual" side after many years of considering themselves totally heterosexual and living as such--I fall into that category myself---

I really don't know why this is the case----I do think that the internet has helped many men to explore this side of themselves---perhaps this has always been something that does happen to men but due to having lived a life as a "straight man" for all of their lives and they felt uncomfortable with the fact they had "desires" to be with other men sexually if not other ways----and they did not know how to go about exploring this part of themselves they were finding---and went to their grave still having such desires----but too set in a proscribed life to think of really finding out what it meant to them---

I guess the same is true for the ladies as well---they might have wanted to "taste the forbidden fruit" as well--but once again--did not know how to go about doing anything--unless some situation "just happened" some day or some night....

I guess we can be thankful we live in a time that we have a resource like the internet and that thanks to this--society is starting to realize--that many people do consider themselves to be something other than simply being "straight!"

I really think that this is not anything new--its not like there is some turning point in human evolution that makes people bisexual---I know that not everyone believes this-but I hold to my notion that if the barriers, taboos, mores, etc. of society was not so much against the notion of bisexuality---then a very high percentage of people would at some point in their lives--would have sexual and emotional relationships with persons of the same gender if they did not have to pay a high price to do so.

Just my thoughts on this--I don't have all the answers- these are simply my feelings, observations and conclusions regarding this subject--but whatever you believe--you have to agree---it is rather interesting to say the least!

It has been my personal theory that guys get intersted in exploring bisexuality when they get to their late 30s/early 40s. Just my unscientific observation.

[viajero]

The internet has taken the closet door off its hinges.

For some it has kept them in the closet. I find the internet useless for meeting guys. I don't have the patience to weed through those who are curious but too scared to actually follow through. Then there are those who think they can order sex like its pizza.

What I have learned from my experiences is that if you could relax sexual attitudes more people would explore. I lived near a nude beach for a couple of years. Guys would come with their girlfriends and get hard kissing them and make sure I was watching. I remember leaving the beach and brushing sand off when I noticed a guy with a woman by his side getting hard watching me. I looked around to make sure he wasn't looking at a chick. Just to make sure when his hard on started coming down I brushed more sand off of some criticial areas a boom up it went again.

I've had so many other similar experiences. I meet a guy who I'm sure is straight. Initially I'd feel no sexual feelings whatsoever. We get to know each other and the conversation might become decidely sexual. From there it often leads to a little fun. It is very different from meeting gay men in the same situation. With gay men it is clear if they want sex with you are not right from the start.

[diamond_tether]

I would blame popular media as much as the internet. Popular media has made it more okay to be homosexual, it's even made it chic in certain ways. I think it came from the 90s when 'sensitivity' and PC started pushing toward the forefront of western culture. As being gay became more and more publicized/accepted, I figure people were more willing to 'give it a shot'.

This is where I feel the internet was instrumental. Now, all of these guys interested in what it might be like to be with another guy, had the ability to engage in the equivalent of the 'rest stop hook-up' without having to be a part of the stigma those kinds of places picked up in the 80s. After some decided they liked it, they felt no inherent need to give up opposite sex play. Why should they? They can have the best of both worlds.

All of this has also given rise to a wave of people my age (20s) who were raised in a cultural situation where homosexuality wasn't nearly as persecuted. We weren't actually aware of what was going on in the 80s, and our social sexual education was making it clear that one's sexual orientation did not define whether or not you got an STD.

Because there's enough social permissiveness regarding sexuality that we can be heard in this respect, our version of 'youth rebellion' is completely disregarding typical social sexual behavior, getting us jokingly dubbed as Generation XXX. Since our age group is often the one most publicized (pictures, magazines, etc - people in their 20s have the 'ideal' bodies and party lifestyles), we constantly see others our age doing..whatever..and many emulate.

[tobie]

wow- what a bunch of gibirish. did you ever consider sex for sex sake no matter what the gender

[FerociousFeline]

I am kind of a strange case. Perhaps I'll try to summarize it without also novelizing. :-)

Maybe an itemize will help:

- I am married since 1999 to a wonderful woman.
- She was my one and only, and still is, of either gender.
- I have always been painfully shy and socially withdrawn.
- I dabbled with the idea of being bi back in college, in 92-94, but didn't test the waters at all, unfortunately.
- Put the matter aside because trying on the label (bi) "didn't feel like me".
- But now... I am reopening myself to myself. And realizing that I actually do feel more like me when I can open up to my gay side.
- I want to explore this other side of me somehow.
- I have some neuroses to do with my shyness vs my own image of my masculinity. (Somehow I internalized emasculation based on "not getting any" for the longest time.)

So, any ho, I want to get out of my personal rut and open up to a whole side of my existence, experience some loveliness (which my wife is open to, thankfully), and disentangle all of the bullshit in my self-identity.

I think I've been carrying a bit of a load of homophobia (even though on the surface and philosophically, intellectually, I'm open and empathic and "tolerant" and enjoying human diversity). Internalized manhood issues.

Well, I guess I can stop the rambling here. :-)


We should really talk. I really "get" where you are coming from here.

As for my response, I think my incredible sex drive has long since pushed me past any perceived boundaries or categories since I was like, Ohhhh 10 years old? So, for me it has always been a question of learning how to fit in in a world that wanted to hurt me for being the natural me.

That of course created some SERIOUS issues which I have been working through very hard for the last 3 or 4 years. One day, I met an extremely wise gentleman, who was in his eighties, and had so many honors attached to his name that it wouldn't hardly fit on a business card. He pulled me aside and told me this. (paraphrased as best as I remember)
"Son, you are an adorable creature of Love, and it would be a real shame if you were damaged by a society which is unable or unwilling to accept the beauty of what you are. My advice is to fully explore your nature, because when you get to be my age, you'll wish that you had. It is far more important for you to share your affection with the world than it would be for you to hide your brilliance from those who don't approve."

Ya know, I think the old man might have a point.


FF

[bi-bob]

Hi All

Been lurking for a while but this thread has coaxed me out.

I'm a happily married man with a beautiful wife and have always considered myself predominantly "straight" but what does that mean? Yes I love the female form but I have always appreciated the male form also.

With the advent of freely accessible porn on the internet you can find whatever you want and I'm not ashamed to admit that viewing gay sex (though not the anal penetrative variety -- more oral) turns me on as much as hetero sex. If truth be known, the sight of a nice cock and balls turns me on as much as a beautiful naked woman. What does that make me? What tag am I to be given?

[Lonestar_Northstar]

Yet I find it curious that the trend from the rare bi sex partner to the rare gay sex partner.

I'm telling you, it's the internet. The internet allows a person to be themselves, explore their fantasies, explore their sexuality, etc....all while "hiding" behind a monitor. They can tell some person they met online "Yeah, I'm bi", but would never do the same thing to a stranger they just met at a bar. It allows them the freedom of expressing themselves without feeling the repercussion's from society.

[FerociousFeline]

Does anyone else have any suggestions of how I can get past the hang ups that prevent me from embracing my sexuality?

I do! I do!

First and foremost, let GO of the self image you have that is fragmented into two or more parts. Then, look in the mirror and into your own eyes. Envision if you will, that the left eye is female, and the right eye is male. If you look closely, you'll begin to perceive that each energy actually governs the whole side of your face. Then, with practice, you'll be able to do a kind of "balancing act". You will try to balance your vision by first leaning to one side (making one eye dominant) and then the other. As you develop a "feel" for it....eventually you will be able to bring the energies into harmony and balance.

Now. Once you can do this, then look at the aspects of behavior that each side of you is showing you. Begin to understand that both of these energies are completely you. Within each of the masculine and feminine sides you are both masculine and feminine. (but it is like 80% to 20% on each individual side) Still following me? Okay. So NOW.....take all the negative judgments you have on each of the two sides of you and .....throw them out. Yep. Just eliminate them. Call for a "do-over" on the judgment.

Envision yourself as BOTH masculine AND feminine WITHOUT punishing yourself for trying to align yourself into a mold that you don't fit into. Define the percentages of energy that you wish to express to the public...and to those who are more intimate.....with regard NOT to what you are....but how you wish to SHARE vulnerable self with others.

I know this sounds obscure, but try to understand that appreciating your own sex is when your inner opposite side is dominant. You can be...or express...that in any form and with any degree of intensity that you choose.

Most importantly, learn to see your own beauty, your own sex appeal. Your own strength, your own vulnerability. Allow yourself to feel the Love of both sides of yourself. Then allow others to see and feel that Love.

I hope this helps...


FF

[Cuntlapper]

I'm sick and tired of going onto bi/gay sites and hearing all about how a bi/gay guy has had sex with a real "heterosexual" guy, as if anyone actually believes it.

The fact is though that heterosexual men don't have sex with other men and even if they do accidentally walk into a place that's for public m4m sex they're not going to stay.

Despite what you read in erotic fiction or see in porn (the "gay" for pay guys are all bi/gay, it's just marketing), heterosexual men don't want to jack off or get head/give head or have other types of sex with men.

If you need the pathetic unobtainable fantasy of having sex with a "straight" guy go ahead and delude yourself but you are having sex with closet cases.

[FalconAngel]

I'm sick and tired of going onto bi/gay sites and hearing all about how a bi/gay guy has had sex with a real "heterosexual" guy, as if anyone actually believes it.

The fact is though that heterosexual men don't have sex with other men and even if they do accidentally walk into a place that's for public m4m sex they're not going to stay.

Despite what you read in erotic fiction or see in porn (the "gay" for pay guys are all bi/gay, it's just marketing), heterosexual men don't want to jack off or get head/give head or have other types of sex with men.

If you need the pathetic unobtainable fantasy of having sex with a "straight" guy go ahead and delude yourself but you are having sex with closet cases.

You say that as if it is news to us all. Here's some news for you.....It is not news to us.

Fact of the matter is that we all know that the "straight" guy that gives in to MM sex is really just Bi or closeted Gay. WE ALL KNOW THAT IT IS ONLY A FANTASY OF THE SELF-DELUDED people in the world.

Fact is also that, since we all know it, and know that there is nothing that we can do to change it, we accept that it is just what it is and don't waste our time banging our heads against the wall, getting upset about things that we cannot change.

No offense, but based on every single post that we have seen from you, you have a lot of angst that should not be vented on all of us here, but rather on the people that have made you such an angry person, instead.

That is the actions of a troll and it has no business here on this site. We are all making very reasonable efforts to be supportive of each other on this site and, if not that, then at least courteous to each other.
We are a community and, even though we don't get along all of the time, we don't start things off by being insulting and offensive.

Drew already deleted a couple of accounts that belonged to a troll. If you do not wish to end up in the same situation, then the least you can do is stop acting like a troll and save your angst for those that really deserve it, such as the people who have made you such an angry person in the first place, rather than the people on this site.

No one is here to be a punching bag, least of all yours, and we will not put up with abuse from other members of the community.

Stop sweating the petty things in the world and either try to be a part of this community or leave.
Being hostile and angry to as many people as possible will not win you friends, lovers or anything else that you may be seeking here. Has it been working for you where you live? Probably not so well.

People here have tried to be as considerate as you have allowed, without going out of our way to offend you. You, on the other hand, have chosen to be as offensive as possible to people that, as far as anyone can tell, have not done anything to you.

It's okay to vent sometimes, but coming onto a site and insulting people from the start is not a good way to win the hearts and minds of the community.

If you want to be a troll, then that's fine. Drew can get you deleted just like the last couple of trolls.

HOWEVER, if you are trying to be a part of this community, then try some kindness and consideration.
My Grandpa used to say that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Try some honey for a change, before you get reported as a troll, if someone hasn't already done so.

[Cuntlapper]

You say that as if it is news to us all. Here's some news for you.....It is not news to us.

Fact of the matter is that we all know that the "straight" guy that gives in to MM sex is really just Bi or closeted Gay. WE ALL KNOW THAT IT IS ONLY A FANTASY OF THE SELF-DELUDED people in the world.

Fact is also that, since we all know it, and know that there is nothing that we can do to change it, we accept that it is just what it is and don't waste our time banging our heads against the wall, getting upset about things that we cannot change.

No offense, but based on every single post that we have seen from you, you have a lot of angst that should not be vented on all of us here, but rather on the people that have made you such an angry person, instead.

That is the actions of a troll and it has no business here on this site. We are all making very reasonable efforts to be supportive of each other on this site and, if not that, then at least courteous to each other.
We are a community and, even though we don't get along all of the time, we don't start things off by being insulting and offensive.

Drew already deleted a couple of accounts that belonged to a troll. If you do not wish to end up in the same situation, then the least you can do is stop acting like a troll and save your angst for those that really deserve it, such as the people who have made you such an angry person in the first place, rather than the people on this site.

No one is here to be a punching bag, least of all yours, and we will not put up with abuse from other members of the community.

Stop sweating the petty things in the world and either try to be a part of this community or leave.
Being hostile and angry to as many people as possible will not win you friends, lovers or anything else that you may be seeking here. Has it been working for you where you live? Probably not so well.

People here have tried to be as considerate as you have allowed, without going out of our way to offend you. You, on the other hand, have chosen to be as offensive as possible to people that, as far as anyone can tell, have not done anything to you.

It's okay to vent sometimes, but coming onto a site and insulting people from the start is not a good way to win the hearts and minds of the community.

If you want to be a troll, then that's fine. Drew can get you deleted just like the last couple of trolls.

HOWEVER, if you are trying to be a part of this community, then try some kindness and consideration.
My Grandpa used to say that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Try some honey for a change, before you get reported as a troll, if someone hasn't already done so.

First off I'm not a troll. My ex girlfriend told me about this site and told me how it's not a sex site or like Craigslist.

Second off I don't like how cavalier and gung ho people are about doing unsafe sex around here. I had an ex lover die of AIDS and the way some people are into unsafe sex here astounds me! It's 2008! Not the early 1980s!

[straight_wife]

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are a troll.