Trying to Make a Statment At the Wrong Time

[gb11vt18]

I understand the need for human rights I mean none of us would be able to express ourselves in the way we do without these rights. However I am getting very angry with the people who are trying to put out the Olympic torch to make a statement against the human right that the Chinese government has not given as well as the whole problem that China has with Tibet. The Olympics is not the time or the place to do such political activism. Sports should not be a place where we have to deal with the politics that ruin all our lives. Olympic athletes do not have the same economic opportunities as major sport athletes yet we look upon them to make a statement about our country to the world. It does not matter what country you are from the Olympics are a time to see the best from out the world compete against each other. The Olympics are a tradition that has lasted longer than many other holidays and events we celebrate today.

The Olympic torch is being disgraced in such a way I find it difficult to keep having trust in people on the world. Unity is what we should be worried about more than anything else. China has come a long way in the past 60 plus years and I am proud of the economic and "western" like approach to advancement that they have taken yet keep a deep rooted tradition even with a Communist government. I was not around when the US. and Soviets boycotted each other Olympics but that is not what we should do and that is not what any country should do. During the time of the Olympics I hope I do not see any political action because for me it is about the sport and the games. The passion of watching men and women compete to the greatest of their abilities to earn a place in the record books and in the hearts and minds of those watching.

I was hoping that people feel the same way that I do or if I am just crazing for thinking this way? Just tell me what you think about it all.

[warmpuppy]

I understand the need for human rights I mean none of us would be able to express ourselves in the way we do without these rights. However I am getting very angry with the people who are trying to put out the Olympic torch to make a statement against the human right that the Chinese government has not given as well as the whole problem that China has with Tibet. The Olympics is not the time or the place to do such political activism. Sports should not be a place where we have to deal with the politics that ruin all our lives. Olympic athletes do not have the same economic opportunities as major sport athletes yet we look upon them to make a statement about our country to the world. It does not matter what country you are from the Olympics are a time to see the best from out the world compete against each other. The Olympics are a tradition that has lasted longer than many other holidays and events we celebrate today.

The Olympic torch is being disgraced in such a way I find it difficult to keep having trust in people on the world. Unity is what we should be worried about more than anything else. China has come a long way in the past 60 plus years and I am proud of the economic and "western" like approach to advancement that they have taken yet keep a deep rooted tradition even with a Communist government. I was not around when the US. and Soviets boycotted each other Olympics but that is not what we should do and that is not what any country should do. During the time of the Olympics I hope I do not see any political action because for me it is about the sport and the games. The passion of watching men and women compete to the greatest of their abilities to earn a place in the record books and in the hearts and minds of those watching.

I was hoping that people feel the same way that I do or if I am just crazing for thinking this way? Just tell me what you think about it all.


Your comments are ethically right on. However, given that the Olympics are played on a world stage, there is no better platform for an activist group to promote its agenda. Same kind of stuff happens during the World Cup.

Right or wrong, that's the reality.

[BronzeBobby]

I totally agree with you. The coverage and hype about this have a lot to do with the fear, in Europe and America, of China's rising power. Every country that manages to command a large population, lots of land, and a powerful military, will inevitably have groups that it has disenfranchised or even abused. The United States, for example, came into being because millions of Indians died in the world's worst holocaust, a whole race was enslaved, and Anglophones stole millions of acres of land from Mexico. If Latinos in the United States started staging protests for Los Angeles to be returned to Mexico, would the US refrain from sending in riot police and beating the crap out of us? Of course not! When the southern states of the United States seceded from the Union, what did the President do? He declared war! "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Whether it's the Kurds, the Kashmiris, or the Welsh, when one group tries to remove itself from a big powerful empire, ethics become sacrificed to Machiavellian political reality.

But let's face it, the US and Europe don't want China, Russia, or India to get too much power; they pull out the case of Tibetan independence to effect a kind of moral superiority over China that's completely hypocritical.

On this one, liberals and conservatives are both guilty of hypocrisy. If you are so upset about China repressing Tibet, I suggest people agitate for the US to boycott Britain for not liberating Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands, Israel for not giving Palestinians full citizenship, Turkey for not allowing a free Kurdistan, Italy for still hanging on to Sicily, Belgium for keeping the Flemish under their control, Mexico and Guatemala for not allowing indigenous tribes to be free, and India for all the conflict in the Kashmir.... The list would go on and on! When you are a power-hungry nation-state, you can't bash other countries for doing everything you did to get where you are.




I understand the need for human rights I mean none of us would be able to express ourselves in the way we do without these rights. However I am getting very angry with the people who are trying to put out the Olympic torch to make a statement against the human right that the Chinese government has not given as well as the whole problem that China has with Tibet. The Olympics is not the time or the place to do such political activism. Sports should not be a place where we have to deal with the politics that ruin all our lives. Olympic athletes do not have the same economic opportunities as major sport athletes yet we look upon them to make a statement about our country to the world. It does not matter what country you are from the Olympics are a time to see the best from out the world compete against each other. The Olympics are a tradition that has lasted longer than many other holidays and events we celebrate today.

The Olympic torch is being disgraced in such a way I find it difficult to keep having trust in people on the world. Unity is what we should be worried about more than anything else. China has come a long way in the past 60 plus years and I am proud of the economic and "western" like approach to advancement that they have taken yet keep a deep rooted tradition even with a Communist government. I was not around when the US. and Soviets boycotted each other Olympics but that is not what we should do and that is not what any country should do. During the time of the Olympics I hope I do not see any political action because for me it is about the sport and the games. The passion of watching men and women compete to the greatest of their abilities to earn a place in the record books and in the hearts and minds of those watching.

I was hoping that people feel the same way that I do or if I am just crazing for thinking this way? Just tell me what you think about it all.

[12voltman59]

I agree with you to some degrree on some of your points---but for being the horrible socialist that I am--I don't much care for the government of China.

It was not all that long ago that when we referred to China here in the US--we called them "Communist Red China."

While China may have opened up and changed a great deal in terms of its economics--China is still a nation that is a centrally controlled, communist country--and one that for some reason that I cannot figure out other than many of the bigtime "capitalists" here in the West looked on China as a source of less expensive products--we ever came to do such an incredible amount of trade with them.

In terms of the political control---things in China are not quite as bad as they were in the heyday of Mao---- but a Chinese person still runs the risk of being arrested, tried and being put in prison for the rest of your days if you do anything that goes against what the government says is the way things are--they just sentenced one of thier top political activists last week to something like 30 years in prison for a laundry list of "crimes agains the people" or something---whiich really amounted to him wrting a blog that details the many ways that the government restricts freedoms.

The list of the ways that the government of China restricts personal freedoms is legion from what they do in Tibet and elsewhere, to the way they forced millions to have to move from their ancestral homes along the Yangtze River so they could buirld that huge lock and dam that will flood many of the places that Chinese civiilizaton began.

You have what they did to those who belong to the Falung Gong sect--a group that has sort of a religious aspect to it--but the biggest part of what they are about revolves around a form of mediation. The Chinese government has basically either locked away or exterminated the members of that group.

I wish we had not come to trade with China to the degree that we did---we sold off a not inconsiderable amount of our basic industrial capacity lock stock and barrel to China---sold that to a country that is still communist and is a controlled society in so many ways by those here who own things--kinda does prove the line Marx had that "the capitalist will sell us the rope we will use to hang him!"

In my opinon, the International Olympic Committee should never have awarded an Olympics game to China--I have to wonder what those people were thinking and wondering what side of the bread their toast is buttered??

While it is not a good thing that some of the pro-Tibet people protesting the Olympic flame making its "goodwill trip" did not siimply protest and had to resort to violence to try to put out the flame--the fact that the IOC did give this summer's games to a country like China--they are the ones who did a polarizing action and it does make me wonder if maybe it is time that the Olympics as we have known them are done----

Countries want Olympics because even though they often lose out in terms of not making back the money they spent to host them directly--there is still the prestige of hosting them and it does help in other regards to hold the games.

I feel sorry for the athletes--but I would have to say to any person who is an athlete preparing to go--"while you sure as heck want to go and do what you do and the games themselves are inspiring and all-I understand that but--do you really want to go and take part in these games held in a country that still is very oppressive and throws people in prisons or worse simply for going against them?? It seems to me that by taking part in these games---the athletes are helping to legitimize a regime that is to my mind an illegitimate one. If I were an athlete--it would be hard to do--but I would not go and take part."

I am going to do my own boycott of the Olympics and am not going to watch one minute of any of these games.

It is too bad that these games have been so politicized--but that was done by the IOC when it chose China as a game site was wrong in my view---and to take part in them in any way just helps give the Chinese a degree of legitimacy they simply do not deserve.

[Bluebiyou]

Okay,
let's agree then. We all meet in Beijing on the 3rd day of the Olympics. At noon we all take off our clothes, jump into the field and streak to demonstrate the cause for bisexuality...
... or maybe just for the fun of it!

but seriously... it's not a black and white issue...

Like back in the late 90's when cheap Chinese products hit the scene... "Do I not buy this beautiful detailed quilt that took almost 100 hours to make from 100's of pieces for $30 (USA) and support Chinese slave labor, or buy it and help spur some capitalism, and perhaps some future hope in China?"
Sometimes there is no right answer.

But at least the topic being protested is somewhat appropriate; Chinese control over Tibet. Hell, it could be some irrelevant demonstration by some bisexuals streaking around the field just looking for publicity of their cause, or God knows what... wait, no, wait a minute, what am I saying?

[darkeyes]

Dunno wy peeps get so hot unda the colla bout all this... Startin off ere..the Olympic games leave me cold... intend 2 b away on hol in 2012 for the whole kit an caboodle of London.. nowt wos more certain that that the Beijing games wer gonna court sum kinda hassle.. China is hardly the mos free place on the planet or economically, environmentally or socially the mos progressive.. its human rights record is a disgrace an its treatment of Tibet an ethnic tibetans is nowt short a appallin...

Me has every sympathy wiv peeps who protest, an use events such as the Olympics as a platform 2 do so.. protest has becum a way a life for the Olympics an will continue 2 b so..no doubt London in 2012 an successive games will b mush the same..an gud luk 2 those who hav a gripe of sufficient magnitude they feel the need 2 express themselves at such an event..or before such as is happenin now. In fact the only thing that wud keep me in the UK in 2012 is jus sucha protest.. 1 wich me feels strongly enuff 2 take 2 the streets...

In political protest..everythin is fair game.. espesh wen it cums 2 such a huge event as the Olympics..an espesh wen the cause is as rite as the treatment of Tibet an its people by the mos populous nation on earth..an 1a the mos oppressive... it may call itself communist..but it aint ne thin of the kind.. Karl Marx mus b turnin in is grave bout that jus as he no doubt did in the days of the Soviet Union.. it certainly aint humanitarian... so cutya gripes..if it attracts publicity it will attract protest..not unusual an long may it continue!!!

[Dagni]

Gb is totaly right. I would just say that is all sport and nothing more than that.
There is also Chinese Grand Prix in Formula 1 in Shangai and since Formula 1 is European project no one ever had any political statments or ridicilus warnings that F1 should not exist in China.
No one ever had any problems during races in Shangai on any level, no one!

The problem that China have with Tibet, it's their own political question and it's up to them how will they solve that (but i hope that US will stay away from that conflict cause it is not question about American territory).

[darkeyes]

Gb is totaly right. I would just say that is all sport and nothing more than that.
There is also Chinese Grand Prix in Formula 1 in Shangai and since Formula 1 is European project no one ever had any political statments or ridicilus warnings that F1 should not exist in China.
No one ever had any problems during races in Shangai on any level, no one!

The problem that China have with Tibet, it's their own political question and it's up to them how will they solve that (but i hope that US will stay away from that conflict cause it is not question about American territory).

No trubble cos the Chinese wudda had peeps in clink if ther wos Dagni!!! An Tibet is an arguable point since the Chinese annexed Tibet forcibly at point of a gun...human rites wereva they r abused is an issue wereva we liv we shud b concerned wiv... 2 day China..tomoz...India, next month Lebanon..next year down ur way!!! An if ya wer unlukky enuff for em 2 b abused down ur way then ya wud b glad 2 know peeps in otha countries felt strongly enuff 2 b tryin 2 do summat bout it!!!

[The Barefoot Contess]

While I agree that there is indeed a time and a place for everything (in a perfectly civilized world) there are times when "etiquette" (for lack of a better word) and diplomacy just don't do anything.

Never were revolutions staged at the right time and place. They are usually inconvenient in the eyes of the establishment, carried out by lunatics who do not know how to follow "proper channels". Sometimes, however, proper, civilized channels are not enough, and if one needs to make a statement, he should find a way to make it heard. Where the limits are for this, I am not sure.

This said, I also understand when people say that statements like this detract from the "message" of the original event. If I were an athlete in the Olympics and I saw that the media paid more attention to the torch than to athletes' efforts, I would probably be a little upset. I was at an anti-war protest in Washington in 2005, and I remember being upset when a group of females decided to take of their clothes and sing "free love" songs and stuff. Nothing against that statement, but I felt that it diverted the attention from the primary event, and, what is more, mixed messages which had little to do with each other.

I agree with BB is that if are all of a sudden concerned with China's human rights violation record, we should also make a case for many other "post-colonial" powers.

[darkeyes]

Human rites abuses an oppression exists in every nation on earth Contessa...we ignore that sad fact our peril..so yas rite..we shud b lookin at moren jus China..sum of us do that..an also look much closa 2 home!!

[darkeyes]

.. an yea contessa babes..also agree wivya that sumthings r much more important than ettiquette.. an diplomacy has all 2 often failed us...wot has diplomacy an ettiquette achieved for Tibet an its peeps since the place wos annexed??? Two words cover it...sod all!

[MetaSexual2]

Lets put this in perspective...

A ruthless, power hungry state invades your country, scatters your people into exile around the world, destroys thousands of years of your cultural heritage, subjects your children to "patriotic education" and enforces a foreign language on them, blatantly lies about the history of your nation... and just two days ago the Chinese army were (again) shooting unarmed civilians... you want their countrymen to not protest? Give me a break.

This is not an internal political matter for China - they have violated the sovereignty of another country. The Tibetans have every right to be pissed off and use any means at their disposal to stop what is happening on the ground in Tibet any way they can. Western bias towards China may exist, but this isn't what these protests are about. The Tibetan people are desperate to stop the brutality going on as we speak and it is the Tibetans themselves that are leading the charge for protest.

Telling them that they should shut up because the Olympics is on is the height of hypocrisy... how would you feel if you were in their place?

[Long Duck Dong]

lol I have been watching the stuff about the protests and china... and I think its bloody hilarious

seriously the protestors need to grow a brain.... if they want to protest, they need to protest visibly and vocal, not disruptively

trying to put out the olympic torch for crying out loud.....how is that protesting china....??? its not, its disrupting a torch carrying ceremony, causing a heap more hassles and issues, putting noses out of joint, and causing people to get pissed off at the protestors and become more likely to tell them to piss off

ok step two, disrupt the olympic games..... that's gonna be a brilliant idea.....
put athletes off their game during the possibly one chance they have at the gold medal... and more importantly, the chance to complete at their best, against the words best
HELLO ???? the athletes are not IOC.... the IOC chose china as the stage for the olympics, so protest the IOC, not the long jumper, or the target shooter etc etc.....let the athletes has their day in china cos it may be the only chance they have


I am not against people protesting, I am against the manner in which they do it......and putting out a torch is hardly gonna change things in china.....
but which political power is gonna argue against china..... cos china has become a world power to reckon with

its not like america can flex their muscle, like iraq / iran / kuwait / nam / korea / afganhanstan etc etc... cos china can fight back on equal footing
so lets roll out the trade restrictions and tariffs against china........and watch NZ sign a free trade agreement with china ( it happened on monday )...and put china ahead of the us as trading partners

nz on monday signed a free trade agreement lifting the tariffs on trade with china, in the face of opposition from the nz public, estimated to be as high as 80% of nz'ers opposed to it
much to the amusement of nz'ers one of the nz government ( from the green party ) was seen in paris with a fire extinguisher...awaiting the arrival of the olympic torch.....

gotta love that.... the nz goverment knowing that they are gonna lose the election this year cos of numerous broken promises, scandals with corruption, and very clear instances of lying to the nz public..... rush thru the signing of a FTA, that will clearly result in the closing of nz businesses due to the flood of cheap chinese goods into nz......

foot note.... last night.... the first business announcing it was closing its doors with the loss of 130 jobs...stating that the FTA meant that the company was no longer able to remain viable in the market place.....

*sighs*.... stop the world, I wanna get off

[gb11vt18]

Lets put this in perspective...

A ruthless, power hungry state invades your country, scatters your people into exile around the world, destroys thousands of years of your cultural heritage, subjects your children to "patriotic education" and enforces a foreign language on them, blatantly lies about the history of your nation... and just two days ago the Chinese army were (again) shooting unarmed civilians... you want their countrymen to not protest? Give me a break.

This is not an internal political matter for China - they have violated the sovereignty of another country. The Tibetans have every right to be pissed off and use any means at their disposal to stop what is happening on the ground in Tibet any way they can. Western bias towards China may exist, but this isn't what these protests are about. The Tibetan people are desperate to stop the brutality going on as we speak and it is the Tibetans themselves that are leading the charge for protest.

Telling them that they should shut up because the Olympics is on is the height of hypocrisy... how would you feel if you were in their place?

My problem is not with the Tibetians but with the others who are just destorying something that is trying to unite the world for a couple of weeks. We just want Peace we all do, I am not agaist what they want but you know something I can't make a difference and I know that I would not see my country try to do anything becasue we have enough problems I just don't want to see any country do something that they are gonna regret. There is a time and place and sporting events are not the time or place to make such political agenda.

[bisexualinsocal]

China's practices are now coming under the very same super-scrutiny that the United States of America has lived under for a century now. The question is whether or not China will rise to the occasion like America did with the civil rights struggle of the 60's and even before that, the American Civil War.

China's problem in the long term is the by product of socialism, communism. The Chinese revolution ushered in socialism. In order to achieve socialism, you need an authoritarian government to enforce it (ie, steal from some and give to others).

The problem now is that the empowered are now the abusers.

[MetaSexual2]

My problem is not with the Tibetians but with the others who are just destorying something that is trying to unite the world for a couple of weeks.

What others are you talking about? It is Tibetans themselves who are organizing the protests.


There is a time and place and sporting events are not the time or place to make such political agenda.

Do you realize you are just spouting Chinese Communist Party propaganda here? That is almost a direct quote from the CCP mouthpiece. The international torch relay is not a standard part of the Olympics (relays within the host country are), and it is being used in an attempt to legitimize the brutal regime currently governing China. No one is disrupting the Olympics themselves, or has proposed to. The Dalai Lama himself has asked for the games to continue unprovoked. The international torch relay though is a piece of CCP propaganda and is a very legitimate target of protest.

[The Barefoot Contess]

China's practices are now coming under the very same super-scrutiny that the United States of America has lived under for a century now. The question is whether or not China will rise to the occasion like America did with the civil rights struggle of the 60's and even before that, the American Civil War.

China's problem in the long term is the by product of socialism, communism. The Chinese revolution ushered in socialism. In order to achieve socialism, you need an authoritarian government to enforce it (ie, steal from some and give to others).

The problem now is that the empowered are now the abusers.

Of course, this is also socialism's fault. Or is it communism's? Can you even tell the difference? Saying that socialism requires an authoritarian government is a really ignorant statement.

Can't wait to see the day when you will make a criticism of something and use another argument.

[gb11vt18]

What others are you talking about? It is Tibetans themselves who are organizing the protests.



The international torch relay though is a piece of CCP propaganda and is a very legitimate target of protest.

First the others that I am talking about are the people protesting. Maybe I am just too young or maybe my generation just does not understand the baby boomers protest ideas of the 60's and 70's, but I find it distasteful and alternative methods should be found. Secondly I do not support socalism or the CCP part at all so what if I have said what they said. I the torch is a key symbol in the unity of the games and this is a disgrace to the torch and to the games. I just think that people need to let Tibet and China revolve this between themselves and that their is no need for us or anyone else to be involved. Once again all I want is for sports to unify us for just a couple of weeks, but maybe we the entire world is still not ready for just a simple idea.

[darkeyes]

First the others that I am talking about are the people protesting. Maybe I am just too young or maybe my generation just does not understand the baby boomers protest ideas of the 60's and 70's, but I find it distasteful and alternative methods should be found. Secondly I do not support socalism or the CCP part at all so what if I have said what they said. I the torch is a key symbol in the unity of the games and this is a disgrace to the torch and to the games. I just think that people need to let Tibet and China revolve this between themselves and that their is no need for us or anyone else to be involved. Once again all I want is for sports to unify us for just a couple of weeks, but maybe we the entire world is still not ready for just a simple idea.That ya view wen the US boycotted the games in Moscow..??? Jeez its a big event an has nwot 2 do wiv unity..if they so triff an so amazin..surely they can take a lil or even a huge demo or 2bout the small an the important issues of the day... oppression an human rites r huge issues.. an if ya cant c that.. an that they r more important than mere sport..then me pities ya..

[darkeyes]

Of course, this is also socialism's fault. Or is it communism's? Can you even tell the difference? Saying that socialism requires an authoritarian government is a really ignorant statement.

Can't wait to see the day when you will make a criticism of something and use another argument.

S'ok Contess me luff...e an othas like im wudn know wot socialism or communism r if they smacked im in the face... if e has eva read Marx or Engels or ne otha proponent of socialism..or a balanced critique of wot they mean...then me is a ducks arse!!! His opinions r prob developed by the culture e cums from wich hasnt a clue an dusn wish 2 learn that the old Soviet Union, an its satellites, an China, North Korea or ne wer else..r not, an neva hav been socialist or communist.. not even Cuba a place wich is dear 2 me heart.. an certainly not that arsehole in Venezuala...

[the mage]

Gime a break... Olympics about sport... HAH what a bunch of bullshit.

The Olympics are a HUGE selling platform..

sport.. c'mon how many of you have ever been fencing or played polo lately.??.
Its the PERFECT venue for protest.
Its making headlines world wide and got politicians talking.. its all excellent.

[The Barefoot Contess]

Gime a break... Olympics about sport... HAH what a bunch of bullshit.

The Olympics are a HUGE selling platform..

Its the PERFECT venue for protest.

Its making headlines world wide and got politicians talking.. its all excellent.

That is very true too :)

[gfofbiguy]

There is a time and place and sporting events are not the time or place to make such political agenda.

So it's all right for China to use the Olympics for their political agenda, but not all right for any other country, protesters, etc. to use the Olympics to put forth their differing opinions on China and their politics?

[someotherguy]

I thought the protest was about global warming. They want the torch replaced with a Popsicle. My news sources are sometimes out of step with mainstream media.

[gb11vt18]

So it's all right for China to use the Olympics for their political agenda, but not all right for any other country, protesters, etc. to use the Olympics to put forth their differing opinions on China and their politics?

I think you have my thoughts on the subject wrong I do not want to see any countries politics put forth in the Olympics. The IOC picks a country they think will host a good Olympics and I think that China will do a great job with that. I have never been to China and I bet most of you have not. From what Dagni has told me about how they handle F1 Grand Prix they should have no trouble with the Olympics and keeping the ploitical agenda away from the sporting events we all want to watch. Sports is pure passion and it needs to stay that way.

[12voltman59]

I heard some great comments by Frank DeFord--a long time sports journalist regarding the Olympics----and how he feels about them having had their time and that that time has past---I could not agree more.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89475422

[tatooedpunk]

The Chinese have an appauling human rights record (tienneman square anyone!) but the respective us and uk governments will not speak out as the west have so much money invested in Chinese cheap labour.Though the olympics should really be viewed as a sporting spectacle i think this is not viable anymore.Gordon Brown (our beloved pm NOT!) is afraid to speak out as London have the next Olympics. It has become nothing more than a political platform that has surely run its course

[Long Duck Dong]

hey thats a idea.... lets scrap the olympics cos the athletes want to complete at their best, against the best, in the world..... but the politics has seeped into the game, just like religion has seeped into politics

lets penalise the athletes by removing the games all together, and make the athletes suffer for of what they are not doing, which is joining the political BS and slamming china

lets also boycott every shop and industry and person that uses and buys chinese made goods, cos that support china....if ya own family buys chinese made... boycott them too

lol....the age of PC and human rights has gone insane.......

chinese people have rights...I agree....... but so do the athletes and the olympic torch runners.......and it appears that the protestors may have managed to ruin the dreams of the people that longed for the chance to carry the torch and that could filter thru to the athletes that dreamed of the chance to complete.......

so lets all go crush their dreams while we disagree with china.......

for fucks sakes...... are we that blind, deaf and stupid that we forget what its like to watch religion oppose and continuely work to crush the LGBT dream of equal rights

we want the right to be human, to be treated as human to be acknowledged as human...... and we scream about others opposing our rights, speaking out against us, protesting at funerals condemning us.......but when its not us that is the target.......when its somebody else who have no human rights...... we immediately say, * its ok to step in and be as disruptive as hell, and ruin others dreams, to say screw the athletes dreams... they have no say in this, we are against china....and if the athletes lose out, its just tough shit for them *

fred phelps and his lot have the same attitude when it comes to protesting funerals.....* tough shit about the family and their pain and suffering, its our right to protest *

the KKK like to preach a message of intolerance against people of color, and their attitude is * tough shit, its our right to protest *

the list goes on...... and every time its the same messages * tough shit, its our right to protest *

then the LGBT community ( when they are the target ) turn around and say " its a invasion of our human rights when people oppose us and act in a manner that disrupts our lives "


godammit we can be hypocritical when it suits us.....

[FalconAngel]

Gime a break... Olympics about sport... HAH what a bunch of bullshit.

The Olympics are a HUGE selling platform..

sport.. c'mon how many of you have ever been fencing or played polo lately.??.
Its the PERFECT venue for protest.
Its making headlines world wide and got politicians talking.. its all excellent.


Well, that was the original intention, to be free from politics and the related hassle, but then............the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

[frenchvikki]

hey thats a idea.... lets scrap the olympics cos the athletes want to complete at their best, against the best, in the world..... but the politics has seeped into the game, just like religion has seeped into politics

lets penalise the athletes by removing the games all together, and make the athletes suffer for of what they are not doing, which is joining the political BS and slamming china

lets also boycott every shop and industry and person that uses and buys chinese made goods, cos that support china....if ya own family buys chinese made... boycott them too

lol....the age of PC and human rights has gone insane.......

chinese people have rights...I agree....... but so do the athletes and the olympic torch runners.......and it appears that the protestors may have managed to ruin the dreams of the people that longed for the chance to carry the torch and that could filter thru to the athletes that dreamed of the chance to complete.......

so lets all go crush their dreams while we disagree with china.......

for fucks sakes...... are we that blind, deaf and stupid that we forget what its like to watch religion oppose and continuely work to crush the LGBT dream of equal rights

we want the right to be human, to be treated as human to be acknowledged as human...... and we scream about others opposing our rights, speaking out against us, protesting at funerals condemning us.......but when its not us that is the target.......when its somebody else who have no human rights...... we immediately say, * its ok to step in and be as disruptive as hell, and ruin others dreams, to say screw the athletes dreams... they have no say in this, we are against china....and if the athletes lose out, its just tough shit for them *

fred phelps and his lot have the same attitude when it comes to protesting funerals.....* tough shit about the family and their pain and suffering, its our right to protest *

the KKK like to preach a message of intolerance against people of color, and their attitude is * tough shit, its our right to protest *

the list goes on...... and every time its the same messages * tough shit, its our right to protest *

then the LGBT community ( when they are the target ) turn around and say " its a invasion of our human rights when people oppose us and act in a manner that disrupts our lives "


godammit we can be hypocritical when it suits us.....
There is a difference between protesting against an injustice and protesting against a minority and trying to crush them. However if people wished to protest against the gay lesbian and Bi community because they felt that community was discriminating against them or some other part of the community, or against the LGB community because of some perceived grievance not born out of prejudice and aimed at depriving them of their right to their difference, then I too would be among the first to support them or at the very least support their right to protest against that perceived injustice. That is not hypocrisy. At least not any definition of hypocrisy that I learned.

[Long Duck Dong]

There is a difference between protesting against an injustice and protesting against a minority and trying to crush them. However if people wished to protest against the gay lesbian and Bi community because they felt that community was discriminating against them or some other part of the community, or against the LGB community because of some perceived grievance not born out of prejudice and aimed at depriving them of their right to their difference, then I too would be among the first to support them or at the very least support their right to protest against that perceived injustice. That is not hypocrisy. At least not any definition of hypocrisy that I learned.

the key word is protest.... that is my point... we will justify our actions according to our beliefs and ignore the fact that we are infringing on the rights of others........

lets protest the goverment in china by putting out a torch in paris......

things like that will not hurt the chinese goverment but it may well have cost people the chance of a lifetime.... to carry the olympic flame........

I support the right to protest..... just not at the expense of people that have nothing to do with the reason for the protest.....

thats why I am saying protest the chinese government but let the athletes has their moment to shine....

the moment we say that its ok to disrupt the athletes in the name of protest.... we are also saying that fred phelps has the right to protest at the funerals of the LGBT

[frenchvikki]

the key word is protest.... that is my point... we will justify our actions according to our beliefs and ignore the fact that we are infringing on the rights of others........

lets protest the goverment in china by putting out a torch in paris......

things like that will not hurt the chinese goverment but it may well have cost people the chance of a lifetime.... to carry the olympic flame........

I support the right to protest..... just not at the expense of people that have nothing to do with the reason for the protest.....

thats why I am saying protest the chinese government but let the athletes has their moment to shine....

the moment we say that its ok to disrupt the athletes in the name of protest.... we are also saying that fred phelps has the right to protest at the funerals of the LGBT
Protest by definition means stepping on the rights of others. People protest against injustice oppression and racism etc. They strike against an employer or boycott a product for whatever reason. These are all legitimate ways of protesting and have to by their very nature infringe on the rights of others with whom people disagree. They protest against government policies thus infringing on the right of Government to do what it feels in its judgement is best for us and arguably infringing on the rights of those who agree with those policies.

Regarding China, Tibet, and the Olympic games, in the end we must ask ourselves one simple question. Which is of most importance? Keeping politics out of the games or exposing and protesting against an oppressive regime which is crushing an entire people underfoot? Of course I feel for athletes who have trained hard to reach their peak for Beijing. But denting their ambitions should the worst come to the worst and by some astonishing and unlikely quirk of fate the games failed to go ahead or some nations or even athletes themselves wish to boycott the games is a small price to pay when we consider the more important issues of human rights. The Olympic torch is at once a symbol of the Olympic movement and of the country and society where the games are to be held. They are therefore fair game for protest and disruption.

[Long Duck Dong]

Protest by definition means stepping on the rights of others. People protest against injustice oppression and racism etc. They strike against an employer or boycott a product for whatever reason. These are all legitimate ways of protesting and have to by their very nature infringe on the rights of others with whom people disagree. They protest against government policies thus infringing on the right of Government to do what it feels in its judgement is best for us and arguably infringing on the rights of those who agree with those policies.

Regarding China, Tibet, and the Olympic games, in the end we must ask ourselves one simple question. Which is of most importance? Keeping politics out of the games or exposing and protesting against an oppressive regime which is crushing an entire people underfoot? Of course I feel for athletes who have trained hard to reach their peak for Beijing. But denting their ambitions should the worst come to the worst and by some astonishing and unlikely quirk of fate the games failed to go ahead or some nations or even athletes themselves wish to boycott the games is a small price to pay when we consider the more important issues of human rights. The Olympic torch is at once a symbol of the Olympic movement and of the country and society where the games are to be held. They are therefore fair game for protest and disruption.

and that is the rest why I do not support the protesting in a lot of cases


the actions that disrupt the games and the athletes is selfish, ignorant and disrespectful of others rights

and if the games were disrupted and ended and nothing changed.... a large number of dreams were ended and crushed for nothing

a protest could be held every day and that would be the dream of the protestors...... the olympics are once every 4 years ( not including the winter olympics ) and that is the dreams of the athletes

I love the way that people are talking about the importance of human rights, while ignoring the rights of some humans.......bit hypocritical isn't it......
hey lets oppose china and support human rights, while we ignore the rights of the athletes.......

[darkeyes]

So wotyas sayin is do nowt... eva.. jus hav lil moan an let shit happen... ya r a silly sod Duckie..think bout it..cos thats wotyas sayin....

[TaylorMade]

Okay... I only have this statement...

http://www.gym-fun.com/InfoFlash/morgan-paulhamm.jpg

I'm ready for the Olympics.

I didn't even notice the flag was upside down until I was done masturbating. :tong:


*Taylor*

[Long Duck Dong]

So wotyas sayin is do nowt... eva.. jus hav lil moan an let shit happen... ya r a silly sod Duckie..think bout it..cos thats wotyas sayin....


no I am saying to protest...... but be respectful.......

in nz we fought and fought hard for the right to have the civil marriage... but we did it without disrupting all the sports events..... without disrupting events in another country.....without screwing over the dreams of sports players.....

its not hard to do..... its just that people are using the right to protest as a excuse to be disruptive and annoying

[darkeyes]

no I am saying to protest...... but be respectful.......

in nz we fought and fought hard for the right to have the civil marriage... but we did it without disrupting all the sports events..... without disrupting events in another country.....without screwing over the dreams of sports players.....

its not hard to do..... its just that people are using the right to protest as a excuse to be disruptive and annoying
If demos wer neva disruptive an annoyin ther wud neva b ne point an there wud neva b ne protest..bit hard 2 demonstrate wiv respect wen wotyas demonstratin gainst has no respect for ne thin or ne 1 .. sure nice peaceful marches an stuff r all very well..but they don usually change much.. sumtimes ya havta act a lil more imaginatively an directly...

[TaylorMade]

If demos wer neva disruptive an annoyin ther wud neva b ne point an there wud neva b ne protest..bit hard 2 demonstrate wiv respect wen wotyas demonstratin gainst has no respect for ne thin or ne 1 .. sure nice peaceful marches an stuff r all very well..but they don usually change much.. sumtimes ya havta act a lil more imaginatively an directly...

UHm....

http://www.historicaldocuments.com/MarchonWashingtonPhotoAA.jpg

Peaceful. Didn't interrupt much.

Helped get a Civil Rights Bill passed.


*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

UHm....

http://www.historicaldocuments.com/MarchonWashingtonPhotoAA.jpg

Peaceful. Didn't interrupt much.

Helped get a Civil Rights Bill passed.


*Taylor*

True..but word is helped..it wos the culmination of a long hard struggle not all of wich wos luffly an peaceful an respectful. Wich is me point...

[vittoria]

Human rites abuses an oppression exists in every nation on earth Contessa...we ignore that sad fact our peril..so yas rite..we shud b lookin at moren jus China..sum of us do that..an also look much closa 2 home!!

Verily.