you have had it all your way for so bloody long........

[Long Duck Dong]

strange how a single remark can really stop things in their tracks and that remark floored me.......

it came out during a LGBT meet when a straight friend of mine was discussing the push for LGBT rights, and asking why it is seen as LGBT rights and not equal rights

I have never seen a group of people turn on one person in such a disgusting and balantly rude way before..... the person asked a simple question, without malice or any intention of creating a issue......but the abuse thrown at him and his * selfish, arrogant, insensitive hetero type *....was disgraceful

I am bisexual and many times I have asked why we are fighting for LGBT rights, when in face we just want the same rights as others..... the rights to live our lives and be recognized as human beings.....have the right to marriage etc etc

when my straight friend asked this question, the verbal abuse thrown at him was a reminder of how the lgbt community at times, can't get it through their thick heads that its not the heteros against us.... and nor are the heteros, the * elite * amongst the human race.......

lets look at this screwed up opinion that is found in a lot of the lgbt community

one ) heteros percieve themselves as the elite / correct sexuality amongst the human race

actually hetero sex for many 1000's of years was the only way to procreate.....until the creation of IVF and test tube babies......
without hetero sex and the act of procreation, we would not be here...... so it doesn't make them the * elite * it makes them essential to the continuation of the human race

two) heteros have had it their way for so long...... actually thats incorrect.... google when the anti gay laws were created..... then google the sexual history of the world..... multi forms of sexuality have been around and accepted for centuries.... until it became a power issue and a control issue...

while hetero sex was the needed form of sex for procreation.... the rights to sexual expression and sharing of love covered all forms..... when people talk about the creation of laws to protect us and our rights.... they also need to realise the the same law creation took away our rights to be who we are....... we are not fighting for the right to exist as humans..... we are fighting to undo the laws that were created to * run us out of town *

three ) the bible condemns those that are not worthy in gods eyes....... yeah since the end of the 18th century when it was added to the bible.....by man

four ) heteros never have to come out of the closet ......lol I love this one....heteros have to reveal whom they love, in the same way we do.... its just the object of their attraction that can differ.......we choose to live under the label of gay / lesbian / bi / trans......for straight people.... they have to use the label of straight / hetero..... just ask around a combined gathering of LGBT and see how many people say they are straight / hetero.... then say that straight / hetero don't have to *use a label *..... or ask around ya workplace

five ) hetero people automatically get all rights, we have to fight for them......
actually hetero people don't get all rights.... they have to apply for the rights to get married ... adopt kids etc etc
now some people will say that its different for LGBT and hetero people..... its not...... both groups are applying to adopt kids, both groups have differing circumstances ....and yeah I know, in some countries, LGBT are not allowed to adopt children but that is hardly the fault of the heteros, its actually legal rulings....


I could go on and on... but I will not.....

what I will say, is that I will not return to that LGBT group again......that single remark is still ringing in my ears.........

its hard to beleive that some LGBT people have a chip on their shoulder over who is right and who is wrong.......and blaming the heteros for laws that may have been made by LGBT people as well as straight people ????????.... yeah ok......a lot of the current anti discrimination / pro LGBT laws in nz were made with the help of the LGBT community.... hence we do not have equal marriage..... but marriage for heteros and civil union for the LGBT


so before anybody claims that the heteros get it all their own way.... please understand that we had it our way too for a good few 1000 years....we just never bothered to protect our rights in the first place....

[bisexualinsocal]

Chuckle....

I always get a kick out of the LGBT hippies. On one hand, they argue that they are not defined by their sexualities. On the other hand, they get angry and abusive over the very same issue.

So which is it?

Collectivism is an abdication of self. This is why "the cause" of LGBT rights attracts the insecure and mentally unstable. You are smart to avoid these bad people from bad families.

[TaylorMade]

strange how a single remark can really stop things in their tracks and that remark floored me......

<snip for length>

so before anybody claims that the heteros get it all their own way.... please understand that we had it our way too for a good few 1000 years....we just never bothered to protect our rights in the first place....


That quote is gonna have me thinking for a good long while. While many groups have been at the bottom of the pecking order, it seems as soon as they find their way at the top, they wrest the mechanics in order to keep their heads above water when the wheels of history aim to run them over.

It can be argued that LBGT (more Gay/Bisexual men than anything) had many chances throughout history to tinker with emerging perceptions. . .but, they took their positions for granted.

It's a hard argument for many to accept, because it flies against what we think we know about the dynamics of human sexuality through the years, but when you consider how many powerful people in early history, up through the middle ages/Renaissance were gay or bisexual, LDD makes a good argument.


*Taylor*

[shameless agitator]

I have to agree. Since we hadn't been oppresses before, we didn't think to make sure it didn't happen in the future. It serves absolutely no purpose, and is in fact counterproductive, to blame our current oppression on all heteros or assume that they're all the enemy. We have many straight allies, and we need them involved in the struggle just as much as suffragists needed men involved in the fight & whites have to be involved in the struggle for racial equality.

[Cesca]

It's a hard argument for many to accept, because it flies against what we think we know about the dynamics of human sexuality through the years, but when you consider how many powerful people in early history, up through the middle ages/Renaissance were gay or bisexual, LDD makes a good argument.


*Taylor*Even if true, does the fact that in days past non straights may have held sway in the world and that they had it good, justify any subsequent oppression? It is an interesting point of history. I do not believe it makes for a good argument. The argument is about rights, equality and freedoms and no amount of historical fact changes that.

[HighEnergy]

I guess folks are so used to being put down, they'll attack anyone. I introduced a couple who've been together for 20 years to my girls as "this is Mr. Bob and his husband," and he got really snippy with me, "no, this is my partner!"

Um, I'm trying to introduced you in terms a 10 year old can understand. If you want the next generation to treat you as equals, please use equal terms so they don't think your relationship is any less valid as the straight folks.

[jamieknyc]

I lived for many years in Brooklyn, where GLBT types were yuppie gentrifiers who paraded around as affluent whites with a huge sense of superiority and even racism towards the mostly minority and ethnic people who came from there, until the GLBT types used their money to throw the natives out. So don't talk to me about who are the 'elite.'

[FalconAngel]

I lived for many years in Brooklyn, where GLBT types were yuppie gentrifiers who paraded around as affluent whites with a huge sense of superiority and even racism towards the mostly minority and ethnic people who came from there, until the GLBT types used their money to throw the natives out. So don't talk to me about who are the 'elite.'

We had a couple of places down here (Wilton Manners, the Las Olas district and South Beach), where the GLBT "types" (aka double income no kids = discretionary funds) moved in and many of the people that were there left.

Those areas were slums or just plain run down before. Now they are some of the most expensive real estate in South Florida and people feel safe driving through them.

Usually, in the experiences that I have had, the times that the LGBT community "chases out" the existing community it is because the "existing community" is not interested in increasing the property values where they live.
The families will tend to stay in those areas and continue to grow, but the undesirables will leave well before the families will because families prefer to live in nicer neighborhoods where they know their children are safer.

Realistically, when the LGBT community moves in, the only ones who lose are the prejudiced who "don't want that in my neighborhood" and the low-life people who thrive on living in bad neighborhoods.

No matter what, though, Long Duck is right. There are "snooty" and prejudiced (heterophobic/hetero-hostile) people within the LGBT community and by being like that, they do themselves and others a great disservice.

[**Peg**]

We had a couple of places down here (Wilton Manners, the Las Olas district and South Beach), where the GLBT "types" (aka double income no kids = discretionary funds) moved in and many of the people that were there left.

OH! the dinks ???

here's the wiki dink: :tong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dink


Peg

[ThatSubliminalKid]

I lived for many years in Brooklyn, where GLBT types were yuppie gentrifiers who paraded around as affluent whites with a huge sense of superiority and even racism towards the mostly minority and ethnic people who came from there, until the GLBT types used their money to throw the natives out. So don't talk to me about who are the 'elite.'

What's wrong with that? The GLBT People fixed up an area and made it so it's not a slum or a ghetto anymore where people get shot and robbed and crack houses are in burned out/abandoned buildings. Not everyone wants to live in a ghetto you know, not even "ethnic types".

I see this all as a good thing and it's something that's going to continue to happen.

[12voltman59]

For those who say that heteros always had freedom to be with who they wanted to be--all you have to do is look back in history and not so far back to find that the partners people chose was pretty well limited either by convention or in some cases---by law----you were supposed to only couple with a person of your same class and social stature---and surely only with those of your own race, ethnicity, religion, and other similar things---it is only a rather recent development in our history that people have had much choice in who they partner with---choosing the wrong one--hetersexual, GLBT or whatever could at least get you ostracisized by those in your community, banishment or worse....

Trying to get things like the right for same-sex marrage and the like is yet one more step in the evolution of society being very restrictiive in terms of who can be with who (bad grammar I am sure there) and we are moving to letting things be more free in that regard---

LDD--it seems that your area GLBT people are a bit ignorant of this history---but then again--it serves them some purpose to be against heteros I guess!

[vittoria]

It's "who can be with whom"

:bigrin: