Life on Planet Earth with global warming

[12voltman59]

Thankfully---scientists, engineers and others have gone well beyond the point of arguing whether or not there is global warming--the scientifc concensus is that global warming/climate change or whatever you want to call it is real and in fact--we have already gone past the tipping point in order to do anything about it or that we won't--so they are already rolling up their sleeves and getting to work in dealing with a a post-climate change world,

On the link below---this site has some stories on what is being done in places all over the world to deal with the effects of climate change:

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/projects/project_display.php?proj_identifier=2008/01/24/planb

I think they are some interesting things that are being done and even if the whole global warming thing does turn out to be a bust---the research they are doing is bound to still have positive benefits that can accure and nothing at all wrong with that.

[DiamondDog]

Are you trying to bait someone?

[12voltman59]

Are you trying to bait someone?

I am just pointing out that we do have many scientists, engineers, entreprenuers, etc. who are working on ways to deal with global warming----and thankfully so---I wish I had skills in engineering and high technology--that is going to be where the future Bill Gates, Pierre Omidyars, and the Larry Pages and Sergey Brins are going to come from.

[bigregory]

Plan B: Adapting to a Warmer World
What if the investments, lifestyle changes and technologies the world is looking toward to stave off climate change don't work? Marketplace reports on the efforts of engineers, scientists and governments to prepare for living with the consequences. (quote from 12voltmans hypelink)

Yes this the way the U.S. deals with global warming.
No need to sign on with the Keoto accord and reduce their greenhouse gasses.Hell billions of dollars to get that arab oil (( Damm the world were going to burn it ))

Maybe when the U.S. is building the big umbrella to cover the country they could make it big enough to cover Canada to.

Yup I think plan A: would be a better place to start:2cents:

[bisexualinsocal]

Global warming is unproven.

[tallkerri]

I just had 80cm of snow dumped in my driveway, where are the fucking greenies when I need them? Screw the enviroment, i'm not shoveling when I have a gas powered snowblower...David Suzuki and Al Gore should be first in line with the shovels...after all, it's been shit they've been shoveling for years, where are they when I need them....

[Falke]

Meh .

[alaskacouple]

Regardless of which side of the global warming issue one falls to, the underlying problem is mans disregard for the preservation and tending of our little home here that we affectionately call Earth.

The sad truth is that even as impressive as our technology is, we are still ignorant for the most part of the inter-connectedness of life on this planet. For several years I have been interested in organic/sustainable farming practices. Some of the things that have been learned is what a vital role the tiny microbes in the soil play to not only plant health but also long term soil health. And we still don't know the names of all of the little microbe critters that we kill each time we pump the ground full of man made chemical "enhancers". But we are clever enough to see that the once fertile soil is now barren without the injection of the chemicals. But we are not clever enough to change our farming practices???

I hold out little hope that "technology" alone will be able to be holistic enough in it's solutions to effect any real long term answers. It will require a shift in mankind's attitude regarding how we live on earth coupled with the wise use of technology in order to stem the slow destruction that we all inflict on the earth every day. And sadly, I don't think we are collectively wise enough to get it done. IMO, it will require dramatic hardships on a global basis before we awaken to our danger - the question then becomes; is there time enough for us to effect the survival of mankind - or will the earth simply rid itself of the pest and continue on toward it's own healing?

[BluegrassBi]

Global warming may indeed be real. Ice ages have been real too and we may all go the way of the dinosaurs as well. What I'd like to have someone explain is how outlawing 100 watt light bulbs or burning ethanol is going to delay it by more than a week or so?

In order to have any meaningful change EVERY fossil fuel burning power plant on the planet would have to shut down tomorrow. The ONLY way to generate enough power to offset that would be to build nuclear power plants and there is NO WAY that will happen. The "greenies" would have apoplexy. Windfarms, solar panels, or even fat women in comfortable shoes peddling their collective asses off on stationary bikes ain't gonna do it.

I don't want to hear, "We have to do 'something!'" The 3 year old on the beach trying to empty the ocean with his plastic bucket about as much chance of succeeding as the claptrap solutions I have heard floated about stopping global warming. What's the "carbon footprint" of all the useless reports generated by these conferences?

[canuckotter]

What I'd like to have someone explain is how outlawing 100 watt light bulbs or burning ethanol is going to delay it by more than a week or so?
Outlawing light bulbs is one of the most ridiculous moves I've ever seen. Ethanol/biodiesel/fuel cells/solar/other alternative energy sources, on the other hand... Why do you think they won't make a difference? Sure, our current technology doesn't make much of a difference... but there are new technologies already starting to enter production that'll have a major impact, and a few ideas in or even just past the theoretical stage that could completely eliminate our need to burn fossil fuel for energy. Heck, we could darn near replace our energy supply with solar right now, if production costs weren't so high.


In order to have any meaningful change EVERY fossil fuel burning power plant on the planet would have to shut down tomorrow.
Not tomorrow. The sooner the better, yes, but "tomorrow"... that's pushing it. Despite what the doomsayers might be shouting, there's little evidence that we're in any danger of a runaway greenhouse effect. But the longer we wait, the more pronounced the climate change will be, and the more severe the weather disruptions will become. Climate change isn't inherently bad, once you get past that short adjustment period... it's just that the geologically "short" adjustment is still thousands upon thousands of years of crazy unsettled unpredictable weather.


The ONLY way to generate enough power to offset that would be to build nuclear power plants and there is NO WAY that will happen. The "greenies" would have apoplexy. Windfarms, solar panels, or even fat women in comfortable shoes peddling their collective asses off on stationary bikes ain't gonna do it.
Even a bunch of the greens are loosening up on nuclear plants. Frankly, at this point, the biggest problem with them is cost... Nukes don't run a profit. As for the other technologies... Again, right now, no, we can't replace our power supply with alternative energy sources. But the technology's in development (and in some cases, hitting production already) that'll change that.

And, of course, there's also the more futuristic stuff. Cheap fusion has shown progress in the last few years, don't count it out yet. If the space elevator actually works, we'll also have a cost-effective way of launching orbiting solar power stations, or dropping a bunch on the moon, and beaming the power back to Earth.

Basically: It rarely pays to bet that technology won't be able to accomplish something. No matter how impossible something might seem, there's always some clever bugger who can make things happen. Powered flight was clearly impossible a hundred-odd years ago. Landing men on the moon was impossible fifty years ago. Instantaneous voice communication with someone on the other side of the planet was impossible a century and a half ago. Heck, in the world of computer chips, we're already well past even the theoretical physical limits of what you can pack onto a computer chip, and those clever buggers at Intel, AMD, and IBM are still finding new ways to bend the laws of physics even further. You live in a world where you routinely do things that even our grandparents might have found mind-boggling. Why would you assume that our progress will slam to a halt now?

[alaskacouple]

Outlawing light bulbs is one of the most ridiculous moves I've ever seen. Ethanol/biodiesel/fuel cells/solar/other alternative energy sources, on the other hand... Why do you think they won't make a difference? Sure, our current technology doesn't make much of a difference... but there are new technologies already starting to enter production that'll have a major impact, and a few ideas in or even just past the theoretical stage that could completely eliminate our need to burn fossil fuel for energy. Heck, we could darn near replace our energy supply with solar right now, if production costs weren't so high.


Not tomorrow. The sooner the better, yes, but "tomorrow"... that's pushing it. Despite what the doomsayers might be shouting, there's little evidence that we're in any danger of a runaway greenhouse effect. But the longer we wait, the more pronounced the climate change will be, and the more severe the weather disruptions will become. Climate change isn't inherently bad, once you get past that short adjustment period... it's just that the geologically "short" adjustment is still thousands upon thousands of years of crazy unsettled unpredictable weather.


Even a bunch of the greens are loosening up on nuclear plants. Frankly, at this point, the biggest problem with them is cost... Nukes don't run a profit. As for the other technologies... Again, right now, no, we can't replace our power supply with alternative energy sources. But the technology's in development (and in some cases, hitting production already) that'll change that.

And, of course, there's also the more futuristic stuff. Cheap fusion has shown progress in the last few years, don't count it out yet. If the space elevator actually works, we'll also have a cost-effective way of launching orbiting solar power stations, or dropping a bunch on the moon, and beaming the power back to Earth.

Basically: It rarely pays to bet that technology won't be able to accomplish something. No matter how impossible something might seem, there's always some clever bugger who can make things happen. Powered flight was clearly impossible a hundred-odd years ago. Landing men on the moon was impossible fifty years ago. Instantaneous voice communication with someone on the other side of the planet was impossible a century and a half ago. Heck, in the world of computer chips, we're already well past even the theoretical physical limits of what you can pack onto a computer chip, and those clever buggers at Intel, AMD, and IBM are still finding new ways to bend the laws of physics even further. You live in a world where you routinely do things that even our grandparents might have found mind-boggling. Why would you assume that our progress will slam to a halt now?

IMO it's not that we lack a "cleverness" or an "inventiveness", it's that we don't seem to have a lot of wisdom or discretion in how we use it. Partly that is due to the way our societies have evolved such that most any innovation or "clever invention" is not done so much with a clear purpose for the betterment of mankind, but instead they are pursued for the personal profit potential. I could name many such examples, but one that comes quickly to mind is the plastics industry - we know that this stuff is polluting our environment and yet because of the profit motive "we all" keep on producing them. Another example of course is the petro/chemical industry - we know that these products are polluting our earth, and yet we continue to do stupid non-essential things like power mow grass once a week to maintain our image in the neighborhood. Modern mankind seems to have lost touch with the fact that we too are but one part of a great and wonderful whole. We have lost our wisdom in our quest for knowledge. And without wisdom, knowledge is dangerous.

[warmpuppy]

Al Gore blames flatulating cows, among other things, as being responsible for global warming. What do we do about the flatulating moose, deer, elk, caribou, squirrels, rabbits, etc., that unleash their methane into the atmosphere from the forest?

I tried that single square of TP per visit thing that Sheryl Crow advocates, but I lack the required physical dexterity. Also, for awhile there was no manicurist in my area who would accept me as a customer.

The melting ice caps on Mars are quite interesting. Wonder what's causing that?

I'm not particularly interested in getting rid of my power mower so that China can continue to build coal-based power plants. That may make me a rotten world citizen, but screw 'em, I say.

Geological evidence indicates that the Earth has had frequent intervals of warming, cooling, warming, cooling. This evidence goes back way before we homo sapiens showed up. Maybe the dinosaurs were being environmentally ignorant?

[the mage]

Thankfully---scientists, engineers and others have gone well beyond the point of arguing whether or not there is global warming--the scientifc concensus is that global warming/climate change or whatever you want to call it is real and in fact--we have already gone past the tipping point in order to do anything about it or that we won't--so they are already rolling up their sleeves and getting to work in dealing with a a post-climate change world,

On the link below---this site has some stories on what is being done in places all over the world to deal with the effects of climate change:

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/projects/project_display.php?proj_identifier=2008/01/24/planb

I think they are some interesting things that are being done and even if the whole global warming thing does turn out to be a bust---the research they are doing is bound to still have positive benefits that can accure and nothing at all wrong with that.

Well a look at the physical and political history of earth and humans will give you the real answer. It simply requires a rational mind to recognize that society is done as we know it. Planet earth will survive just fine. Humans are done soon, we are out of food air power and water already..

[alaskacouple]

I'm not particularly interested in getting rid of my power mower so that China can continue to build coal-based power plants. That may make me a rotten world citizen, but screw 'em, I say.



Thank you! You have proven my point better than I could ever hope to. And please don't take this wrong, we are all apathetic by nature. We just cannot seem to be able to motivate ourselves collectively for the universal good - in short, we are all pretty selfish. But it is this collective selfishness that I think will one day sneak up and bite us all.

[alaskacouple]

Well a look at the physical and political history of earth and humans will give you the real answer. It simply requires a rational mind to recognize that society is done as we know it. Planet earth will survive just fine. Humans are done soon, we are out of food air power and water already..

Dayum! I didn't want to say that, even though I thought it...

[wolfcamp]

Global warming may indeed be real. Ice ages have been real too and we may all go the way of the dinosaurs as well. What I'd like to have someone explain is how outlawing 100 watt light bulbs or burning ethanol is going to delay it by more than a week or so?

A better way to look at this is not when it will happen, but to what degree. The standard projection says that if we just continue business as usual, that CO2 levels will reach around 2100 parts per million somewhere around the year 2300. (Today it's about 380 ppm and rising) That means that we will have burned virtually all the coal and oil that we have access to. At that point the CO2 concentrations would level off and eventually start to come down through natural processes. It would probably take around 100,000 years for weathering and other processes to get CO2 concentrations back to "natural" levels.

Ethanol probably won't do much for us. There is a simple acronym for the worth of an energy resource. EROEI - Energy Returned On Energy Invested. Oil's EROEI is about 40, or 40 to 1. Ethanol is about 1.6 to 1.

[Bisexualnewbie]

Ok I have to weigh in on this topic too.
Global Warming is a myth that is being pushed so these so called experts and Al Gore (who we all know invented the internet) can exact more money from business, I mean Carbon Credits?, well I guess when you can't run for anything like mmmm? Vice President again you have to keep busy and profiting from doing something. Did you see him a few months after he and Kerry lost, the guy weighed more than the blimp they send up to check the weather, maybe he was the one who was flatulating and causing all the methane gas?
When a volcano erupts it sends out more pollutants than man can ever throw into the atmosphere.
Besides when it's a little warmer in the summer by 1 degree do we really notice?.
IF there is global warming are we really going to notice it when we are all sitting in an urn on our relatives mantelpiece or buried in the ground, I know I won't be around to see it.
Al Gore has said many times that he will not debate this issue with experts who dismiss it and the creator of the weather channel wants to see him sued, then there were the 400 or so protesters outside the global warming convention campaigning against it while Gore was inside talking crap.
And why is it us, the good old US of A that has to set the bench mark to what the world should aspire to, warmpuppy said that China is building more coal based power plants, they are and they do not give a rats ass about the environment.
The peasants in China are burning computer boards to get the precious metals from them, hmm wonder what thats doing to the environment.
Personally I think the whole world is going to hell in a hand basket and I'm sure glad I may not be around to see the end of it. :cool:

[HighEnergy]

I got an old fashioned reel mower when I got divorced and my own house. It's lighter, doesn't use gas or oil so it's cheap. It's quiet so I can go out and mow my grass before 8am when it gets hot and the neighbors are not awakened by it. And I can mow during the day ban on gas mowers for smog and my grass looks great.

I've got the funny looking lightbulbs and they burn for years instead of months so they save money and hassle.

I'm going to get more insulation so I'm warmer in addition to saving polar bears.

I'm having solar light tubes put in the dark places of my house so I can see without turning on lights. Turns out it helps with depression and your pets want to be beneath them.

There are things we can start doing now and it won't only save the planet, but the dimes in your pocket.

We need new technologies and new ideas. Even if you don't give a rats ass about global warming (which I do since I have kids and I do care about what happens to the planet in the future), so some of this stuff just to save yourself a couple of bucks!

God gave us dominion over the planet, not destructive rights.

[bisexualinsocal]

The more you guys keep talking about this, the more you're emitting the greenhouse gas "Carbon dioxide". Carbon Dioxide= Global Warming

A Call To Action:

Verily I say to all ye religious environmentalists. Please cease operations immediately. For surely I say to you, thou exhalest the seeds of thy own destruction. Thou soweth carbon dioxide, thou shalt reap a flood from ye heavens. Thou polar bears shalt drown. Holy mother earth will remove from the book of life and the mailing lists of ye Whole Foods Market.

Repent, reuse, recycle, energy dhimmis! Jihad in the name of our lady science!

[jem_is_bi]

I know this is a serious issue.
But, it is unlikely, I can ever do anything extremely meaningful to alter the problem.

With Easter almost here.
I see 3 foot high piles of snow every where I look.
This thread make me feel guilty for my thoughts.
Nevertheless, I wish global warming could be concentrated and provide a little local warming around here.

[bisexualinsocal]

I know this is a serious issue.
But, it is unlikely, I can ever do anything extremely meaningful to alter the problem.

With Easter almost here.
I see 3 foot high piles of snow every where I look.
This thread make me feel guilty for my thoughts.
Nevertheless, I wish global warming could be concentrated and provide a little local warming around here.

Just go outside and yell...


"Hey snow! It's global WARMING!!!!"


And watch the snow sheepishly melt away!

[chuck1124]

This is always such an interesting site. Interesting as well, is that there are so many bisexual conservatives. Yes the climate is changing and has be warming and cooling for, oh, about the last 100 milliion years and will continue to for the next 100 million I suppose. With all the BS out there, on radio and television, I have yet to hear one global warming advocate out there, able to explain the climate change on Mars. We have just had the most severe Winter ever recorded. The Arctic ice packs have returned and increased and the Antarctic ice has become denser than ever. (all of that information is per NASA). But if the goal of the greenies is to clean up the environment, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, the goal of the global warming crowd is to control your life and dip into your pocket.

[jem_is_bi]

Just go outside and yell...


"Hey snow! It's global WARMING!!!!"


And watch the snow sheepishly melt away!

Just tried that. I don't know what the neighbors thought. But the snow is still there.

[bisexualinsocal]

Just tried that. I don't know what the neighbors thought. But the snow is still there.

Hmmm, maybe you didn't buy enough carbon offsets?

Snow hates when people don't buy enough carbon offsets.

Snow is punishing you.

[wolfcamp]

With all the BS out there, on radio and television, I have yet to hear one global warming advocate out there, able to explain the climate change on Mars.

What's Mars got to do with anything?

[wolfcamp]

Geological evidence indicates that the Earth has had frequent intervals of warming, cooling, warming, cooling. This evidence goes back way before we homo sapiens showed up. Maybe the dinosaurs were being environmentally ignorant?

You are absolutely right, and with the warming and cooling the seas rose and fell. At the end of the Pleistocene the seas rose over 300 feet. The difference is that if we get a 10 foot sea level rise today, we lose Miami.

Here's a graph of recent sea level rise.

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Image:Recent_Sea_Level_Rise_png

[bisexualinsocal]

You are absolutely right, and with the warming and cooling the seas rose and fell. At the end of the Pleistocene the seas rose over 300 feet. The difference is that if we get a 10 foot sea level rise today, we lose Miami.

Here's a graph of recent sea level rise.

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Image:Recent_Sea_Level_Rise_png

Just wanted to remind you that your science has proven nothing when it comes to the myth of global warming.

[wolfcamp]

When a volcano erupts it sends out more pollutants than man can ever throw into the atmosphere.


We are throwing up about 6.1 billion metric tons of CO2 a year, but that was in 2004. It would be a little more now. That doesn't include the sulfur and nitrogen compounds. It's not that hard to figure. Just figure out how much fossil fuel is being burned, and then do the chemistry conversion from hydrocarbons and oxygen to CO2 and water. By comparison, biogenic CO2, (the CO2 taken in and respired out of living plants) amounts to about 60 billion tons a year. (That's 60 billion tons into the atmosphere and 60 billion out every year)

Tambora went off in 1815 and was the biggest volcanic eruption in the last 200 years and probably much longer. It was 5 times bigger than Pinatubo. By measuring the dust layers on the Greenland icecap and you can estimate the aerosol cloud from Tambora to be about 100 billion kilograms which works out to be 100 million metric tons. That's less than 6.1 billion, in case you didn't notice.

Toba went off about 75000 years ago in Indonesia, and put out about 2800 cubic kilometers of magma. There was a significant temperature dip at about that time possibly from blocked sunlight, and the events probably were related. Of course, we haven't seen anything even close to that in recent times.

[bisexualinsocal]

We are throwing up about 6.1 billion metric tons of CO2 a year, but that was in 2004. It would be a little more now. That doesn't include the sulfur and nitrogen compounds. It's not that hard to figure. Just figure out how much fossil fuel is being burned, and then do the chemistry conversion from hydrocarbons and oxygen to CO2 and water. By comparison, biogenic CO2, (the CO2 taken in and respired out of living plants) amounts to about 60 billion tons a year. (That's 60 billion tons into the atmosphere and 60 billion out every year)

Tambora went off in 1815 and was the biggest volcanic eruption in the last 200 years and probably much longer. It was 5 times bigger than Pinatubo. By measuring the dust layers on the Greenland icecap and you can estimate the aerosol cloud from Tambora to be about 100 billion kilograms which works out to be 100 million metric tons. That's less than 6.1 billion, in case you didn't notice.

Toba went off about 75000 years ago in Indonesia, and put out about 2800 cubic kilometers of magma. There was a significant temperature dip at about that time possibly from blocked sunlight, and the events probably were related. Of course, we haven't seen anything even close to that in recent times.

Another post yet still nothing that proves the myth of global warming. What are we going on now? How many years?

[warmpuppy]

What's Mars got to do with anything?

Just a bit of empirical thought. If Mars is going through a similar warming at the same time as Earth, is it remotely possible that the Sun we share with Mars is going through a normal phase of warming? If the Sun is heating up, is it possible that both planets would be similarly affected?

I don't think anyone doubts that global warming is present, but to suggest that it is man-made borders on the nonsensical.

[wolfcamp]

Just a bit of empirical thought. If Mars is going through a similar warming at the same time as Earth, is it remotely possible that the Sun we share with Mars is going through a normal phase of warming? If the Sun is heating up, is it possible that both planets would be similarly affected?

I don't think anyone doubts that global warming is present, but to suggest that it is man-made borders on the nonsensical.

Well, I see your line of thought, but I don't think things are changing that much on Mars today. It has seasonal changes just like earth because of the tilt of it's axis. One pole warms up and the other gets colder, and then it reverses, but other than that, I'm not aware of anything changing significantly.

Sunspots seem to have a small effect on the earth's climate. There have been studies on that. But effects here on earth cycle through a small range and don't account for long term, permanent changes. Earth receives a constant 1370 watts per square meter from the sun. The fluctuation is barely measurable. We emit about a 10th of the carbon-dioxide as all the plants on dry land world wide. I don't see how that isn't significant.

All I am trying to do is make people a little more aware. If you start to work with the real numbers, then you start to see the magnitude of the problem. I'm not advocating that you sell you car and buy a bicycle. Actually I don't think we are going to change much at all, unless oil becomes unaffordable, which it will someday. Heck, I don't even recycle except for a few beer cans once in a while. (We don't have good recycling facilities where I live.)

I think people need to learn to separate the empirical from the subjective. Certain things are empirical, like readings on a thermometer, or readings on a CO2 meter. Some people here claim that those numbers are fudged somehow, but I don't believe that for a second. People can believe what they want, but the numbers are what they are.

[wolfcamp]

Another post yet still nothing that proves the myth of global warming. What are we going on now? How many years?

bisexualinsocal, I haven't mentioned global warming in a single one of my posts in this thread, but you seem to be obsessed with it. I also have really tried to restrain myself from mentioning anything political. I am just making some interesting comparisons of nature and the workings of man.

[alaskacouple]

I got an old fashioned reel mower when I got divorced and my own house. It's lighter, doesn't use gas or oil so it's cheap. It's quiet so I can go out and mow my grass before 8am when it gets hot and the neighbors are not awakened by it. And I can mow during the day ban on gas mowers for smog and my grass looks great.

I've got the funny looking lightbulbs and they burn for years instead of months so they save money and hassle.

I'm going to get more insulation so I'm warmer in addition to saving polar bears.

I'm having solar light tubes put in the dark places of my house so I can see without turning on lights. Turns out it helps with depression and your pets want to be beneath them.

There are things we can start doing now and it won't only save the planet, but the dimes in your pocket.

We need new technologies and new ideas. Even if you don't give a rats ass about global warming (which I do since I have kids and I do care about what happens to the planet in the future), so some of this stuff just to save yourself a couple of bucks!

God gave us dominion over the planet, not destructive rights.

I like this comment a lot.

Perhaps we should not focus so much on a buzz-word like 'global warming' and simply concentrate on doing what is prudent for the overall health of our planet and ourselves. I especially like your comment about needing to be responsible with our care of the earth for future generations.

And of course what we can all do is decide how we will walk on this earth in the time given to us. Some people have become blinded by selfishness and shall probably never change. Sadly it seems that many of the group now termed as "conservatives" have bought into this selfish attitude of "me first, and screw the rest" with their full heart and soul. They swallow without tasting the propaganda of right wing fanaticism - they must be left behind and ignored. Those who see a need for a change of attitude and direction must try to vote into office men and women who share that attitude - that, and living our own lives with thought is about all we as individuals can do. That and hope and try to do no harm to any soul...

[wolfcamp]

Just wanted to remind you that your science has proven nothing when it comes to the myth of global warming.

Thank you for reminding me. I am not trying to prove anything.

[bisexualinsocal]

Thank you for reminding me. I am not trying to prove anything.

No problem. I like to remind people that the myth of global warming is unproven.

[DiamondDog]

No problem. I like to remind people that the myth of global warming is unproven.

Just wondering, what else do you think is a myth or is unproven besides global warming?

[Doggie_Wood]

Just wondering, what else do you think is a myth or is unproven besides global warming?

BIG-FOOT :bigrin: :tongue:

[12voltman59]

Well I had posted the segment below in the health care thread--but I have to post it here for some, especially a particluar person:

You can go round and round and round and round that "global warming" has not been proven--it really does not matter whether it has or not because the simple fact of the matter is this: The powers that be of all nations--and corporations, etc, are operating as if it were FACT and that is the FACT--pure plain and simple.

Here is one story about the G20 talks taking place in Tokyo:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7295937.stm

and on the EU conference--which is now over:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7296564.stm

So bisexualinsocal---believe as you will---and you can win on that in terms of what you want to believe--but like believing in Santa Clause or the tooth fairy-- just because YOU BELIEVE IT--it doesn't make it so buddy---it does not matter that a guy who calls himself BISEXUALINSOCAL does or does not believe that global warming is real or by contrast that I happen to believe it--we are both irrelevant to this discussion because---- when it comes to this issue the leaders of the world's powers are already acting upon the fact they have examined the evidence and come to the conclusion that global warming is indeed real-and mankind is playing a role in it--my God--even the oil companies are now acting as if global warming is real!!!!

LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN BISEXUAL---IN LARGE PRINT SO YOU GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD---WHAT YOU, I OR THE REST OF US HERE AT THIS SITE BELIEVE OR DON'T BELIEVE ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING AND CLIMATE CHANGE IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT----THE LEADERS OF MOST OF THE DEVELOPED NATIONS (EVEN GEORGE BUSH TO SOME DEGREE) AND THE DEVELOPING ONES AS WELL--ARE ALREADY ACTING UPON THEIR CONCLUSION THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL AND IS BEING AFFECTED BY THE ACTIVITY OF MANKIND--YOU AND I CAN DISPUTE THE "TRUTH" OF GLOBAL WARMING UNTILL THE COWS COME HOME--BUT YOU CANNOT DISPUTE THAT THOSE IN POSITIONS OF POWER IN GOVERNMENT, ACADEMIA, INDUSTRY, BUSINESS, ETC, ARE ACTING UPON THE "CONSENSUS" THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL AND AFFECTED IN LARGE MEASURE BY MANKIND---THE ONLY THING THEY ARE ARGUING ABOUT AT THIS POINT ESSENTIALLY IS THIS-----WHO IS GOING TO GET TO CONTINUE TO PUT OUT THE MOST OR LEAST AMOUNT OF THE GASES IN COMING YEARS THAT SCIENCE SAYS IS AT ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM???---AT THE LEVELS THIS IS BEING DISCUSSED---THEY HAVE GONE WELL BEYOND DEBATING WHETHER GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL--THEY HAVE TOTAL AGREEMENT ON THAT----THEY ARE MERELY DISCUSSING WHO WILL BE THE ECONOMIC WINNERS AND LOSERS IN THIS WHOLE THING!!!!!!!!!

GOT IT????????????????????????????????????????

Now get off this shit man!!!!
Wake the fuck up and smell the coffee man!!!! It is super high test Starbucks dark roast!!!

If you don't get it at this point----I do not know what you are---very stupid and ignorant--hard headed and stubborn or just plain cantankerous and just can't get off a postion once you stake it--if winning on this is what you want--OK--we know that whatever your real name is---you firmly believe in your heart of hearts that global warming is total bunk--we know that--and you are free to believe it until you take your final breath here on God's (still somewhat) green Earth!!! You are a winner!!!!!

But like I said---what you or I believe on this subject doesn't amount to a pile of you know what!!!

NOW FOLKS--CAN WE GET OFF THIS SHIT AND GIVE THE TOPIC OF GLOBAL WARMING A MUCH DESERVED SHOT TO THE TEMPLE AND HEART--THEN BURY IT????

[BronzeBobby]

NOW FOLKS--CAN WE GET OFF THIS SHIT AND GIVE THE TOPIC OF GLOBAL WARMING A MUCH DESERVED SHOT TO THE TEMPLE AND HEART--THEN BURY IT????

Amen, says the clapping man in the second pew from the back.

[bisexualinsocal]

LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN BISEXUAL---IN LARGE PRINT SO YOU GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD---WHAT YOU, I OR THE REST OF US HERE AT THIS SITE BELIEVE OR DON'T BELIEVE ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING AND CLIMATE CHANGE IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT----THE LEADERS OF MOST OF THE DEVELOPED NATIONS (EVEN GEORGE BUSH TO SOME DEGREE) AND THE DEVELOPING ONES AS WELL--ARE ALREADY ACTING UPON THEIR CONCLUSION THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL AND IS BEING AFFECTED BY THE ACTIVITY OF MANKIND--YOU AND I CAN DISPUTE THE "TRUTH" OF GLOBAL WARMING UNTILL THE COWS COME HOME--BUT YOU CANNOT DISPUTE THAT THOSE IN POSITIONS OF POWER IN GOVERNMENT, ACADEMIA, INDUSTRY, BUSINESS, ETC, ARE ACTING UPON THE "CONSENSUS" THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL AND AFFECTED IN LARGE MEASURE BY MANKIND---THE ONLY THING THEY ARE ARGUING ABOUT AT THIS POINT ESSENTIALLY IS THIS-----WHO IS GOING TO GET TO CONTINUE TO PUT OUT THE MOST OR LEAST AMOUNT OF THE GASES IN COMING YEARS THAT SCIENCE SAYS IS AT ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM???---AT THE LEVELS THIS IS BEING DISCUSSED---THEY HAVE GONE WELL BEYOND DEBATING WHETHER GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL--THEY HAVE TOTAL AGREEMENT ON THAT----THEY ARE MERELY DISCUSSING WHO WILL BE THE ECONOMIC WINNERS AND LOSERS IN THIS WHOLE THING!!!!!!!!!

GOT IT????????????????????????????????????????



Let me just say in regular print, the myth that is Global Warming is still unproven. Beliefs and behavior still don't indicate fact or constitute "Proof".

I mean, how many angles will you view this ugly bitch from until you finally realize that hey, it's an ugly bitch?

Global Warming= Ugly bitch

Doesn't matter how you look at it. Global Warming still remains a myth.

[DiamondDog]

BiSexinSoCal-What other things do you not believe in besides global warming?

[the mage]

All I see time after time is you people whining about people going into your pocket. Crying about how its all fake, its all just bullshit.

You are proof positive that society is done for.


Your inability to conceptualize and accept the reality of the "big picture" is normal and unfortunately all too common. Your politicians are equally foolish. You do not follow leaders, you follow profit margins.

That is why society is done in the coming few years.

[ambi53mm]

Let me just say in regular print, the myth that is Global Warming is still unproven. Beliefs and behavior still don't indicate fact or constitute "Proof".

I mean, how many angles will you view this ugly bitch from until you finally realize that hey, it's an ugly bitch?

Global Warming= Ugly bitch

Doesn't matter how you look at it. Global Warming still remains a myth.


People couldn't be convinced that the world was anything but flat at one time and to think otherwise was considered just short of being a lunatic. What is obvious is the damage we've done over the last fifty years and the arrogance of those who choose to believe there's no reason for change. I'd rather proceed on the assumption and possibilities that there may be truth to the theory of global warming and, that we may be at least partly responsible... than to just dis the whole concept and bury my head in the sand. It was pointless to try to convice those that had a flat perspective of the world...and I guess we haven't changed much in that regard.

Ambi:)

[12voltman59]

Well folks---you can make up your own mind about the intellligence or lack thereof of our friend bisexualinsocal----

I don't know how much clearer I could be-----but I will say it again---whatever we say here on this subject has nothing to do with the price of tea in China as an old saying used to have it---

There is no reason for us to even discuss this issue because the fact is----those who control the levels of power in the world are proceeding on the basis that global warming is REAL---IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUUUUUU THINK ABOUT IT.

That you do not realize the fact of the way the world actually works--makes you in the words of Dan Akroyd in the early days of "LIVE FROM NEW YORK--IT'S SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE!!" to Jane Curtin when they were the first "Weekend Update" co-anchors:

"JANE----YOUR ARE AN IGNORANT SLUT!!!!"

[bisexualinsocal]

All I see time after time is you people whining about people going into your pocket. Crying about how its all fake, its all just bullshit.

You are proof positive that society is done for.


Your inability to conceptualize and accept the reality of the "big picture" is normal and unfortunately all too common. Your politicians are equally foolish. You do not follow leaders, you follow profit margins.

That is why society is done in the coming few years.


In this case there is no big picture to see. All there is, is a fairy tale.

Once upon a time, the polar bears got drowned, Manhattan got blowed up by rising tides and nanny says that this all happened because of the Chevy Suburban.

[bisexualinsocal]

Well folks---you can make up your own mind about the intellligence or lack thereof of our friend bisexualinsocal----

I don't know how much clearer I could be-----but I will say it again---whatever we say here on this subject has nothing to do with the price of tea in China as an old saying used to have it---

There is no reason for us to even discuss this issue because the fact is----those who control the levels of power in the world are proceeding on the basis that global warming is REAL---IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUUUUUU THINK ABOUT IT.


LOL. More caps? Getting frustrated? LOL. With your quick temper, it's no wonder you're willing to cede so much power to the federal government. LOL

I like you, you're funny.

[bisexualinsocal]

Well folks---you can make up your own mind about the intellligence or lack thereof of our friend bisexualinsocal----

I don't know how much clearer I could be-----but I will say it again---whatever we say here on this subject has nothing to do with the price of tea in China as an old saying used to have it---

There is no reason for us to even discuss this issue because the fact is----those who control the levels of power in the world are proceeding on the basis that global warming is REAL---IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUUUUUU THINK ABOUT IT.

That you do not realize the fact of the way the world actually works--makes you in the words of Dan Akroyd in the early days of "LIVE FROM NEW YORK--IT'S SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE!!" to Jane Curtin when they were the first "Weekend Update" co-anchors:

"JANE----YOUR ARE AN IGNORANT SLUT!!!!"


In all seriousness. You're a victim here. When people start to believe that the individuals opinion doesn't matter, we have a problem. Of course this is a personal problem for you at the moment and not particularly representative of American society at large.

All I can ask of you is this; Don't reproduce. PLEASE!

[12voltman59]

In all seriousness. You're a victim here. When people start to believe that the individuals opinion doesn't matter, we have a problem. Of course this is a personal problem for you at the moment and not particularly representative of American society at large.

All I can ask of you is this; Don't reproduce. PLEASE!


What kind of stupid remark and response is that??? You make no sense at all--and you have certainly not made any friends on this site--most people that I have talked to on here think you are a narrow minded, racist, bigoted person---go find yourself some rightwing website to go post your nonsensical postings where the people will agree with you----I heard that one threat you made to CSRAKate--that you would "go kill here at night" when she said something to her you did not like--for that alone you should have been banned from here--

You are a most disagreable and unlikeable person----if you ever had anything positive to add to the discussion--I would not mind that we don't agree on things----but what my problem is with you is that you have no respect for anyone who does not think along your very narrow and limited lines--actually-you are a person not so much to be dislked but to be pitied--if you weren't such a nasty person----at least the face you present here in this site is that way----

[DiamondDog]

It is what it is.

omgwtflolBBQ!

[DiamondDog]

Let me just say in regular print, the myth that is Global Warming is still unproven. Beliefs and behavior still don't indicate fact or constitute "Proof".

I mean, how many angles will you view this ugly bitch from until you finally realize that hey, it's an ugly bitch?

Global Warming= Ugly bitch

Doesn't matter how you look at it. Global Warming still remains a myth.

What does an ugly bitch look like?

[bisexualinsocal]

What kind of stupid remark and response is that??? You make no sense at all--and you have certainly not made any friends on this site--most people that I have talked to on here think you are a narrow minded, racist, bigoted person---go find yourself some rightwing website to go post your nonsensical postings where the people will agree with you----I heard that one threat you made to CSRAKate--that you would "go kill here at night" when she said something to her you did not like--for that alone you should have been banned from here--

You heard? LOL.

This is bisexual.com, not sewing-circle.com. The gossip that floats around this world doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I find it funny that anyone get worked up over stuff on the internet. I literally LOL.

Seriously, I like you. You are funny and you make me LOL, ROFL and LMAO. Keep updating me on what else you "Heard" LOL


You are a most disagreable and unlikeable person----if you ever had anything positive to add to the discussion--I would not mind that we don't agree on things----but what my problem is with you is that you have no respect for anyone who does not think along your very narrow and limited lines--actually-you are a person not so much to be dislked but to be pitied--if you weren't such a nasty person----at least the face you present here in this site is that way----

Hey man, reread this thread and a couple others. If insults are going in any direction, its from your side to my side. You've called me a "simpleton", you've called me "ignorant" and "uneducated".

But it's ok, that makes me LOL. You funny!

[bisexualinsocal]

It is what it is.

omgwtflolBBQ!

LOL. BBQ?

[bigregory]

This is sad. Talk about your ultimate catch 22. This is a hard one to fix when none of us were really going to want to give up all of the things that we work so hard to buy,, houses, cars, etc. This is the question. How do we overcome our greed and luxurioux lifestyles?

[bisexualinsocal]

This is sad. Talk about your ultimate catch 22. This is a hard one to fix when none of us were really going to want to give up all of the things that we work so hard to buy,, houses, cars, etc. This is the question. How do we overcome our greed and luxurioux lifestyles?

If you feel bad, feel free to send me your luxury automobile and McMansion. I'll be glad to take the guilt off your hands.

[stuporman]

There is no such thing as global warming. Chuck Norris was cold, so he turned the sun up.

[vittoria]

Just because global warming is a gradual thing, doesnt mean its suddenly going to stop the seasons from happening. Like everything else on the planet even bad things take time. And it doesnt mean that its not a fact.

Inuit, and other way northern dwelling individuals are already witnessing their "lands" virtually melting beneath their feet.

Formerly snowcapped mountains are also melting.

Places that normally dont receive much snow have been getting hammered lately. Seasons just arent what they used to be.

One doesnt have to be a college graduate to look around and pay attention.

Its not a "liberal" thing. Not a "right wing" thing.

Its a life thing.

[Dweezil44]

There is no reason for us to even discuss this issue because the fact is----those who control the levels of power in the world are proceeding on the basis that global warming is REAL---IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUUUUUU THINK ABOUT IT.

I'm new here, and am not trying to get into the middle of a flamewar (I have enough pressure in life, thank you), but it seems to me that one of the redeeming qualities of the internet is the ability to conduct debates about controversial issues regardless of what world leaders will or will not do. If the debate isn't your cup of tea, fine -- just don't engage in it. :):

JMHO.

S--

[Dweezil44]

Someone earlier brought up the Mars climate change arguments. They have some merit. Basically, the argument is that Mars' climate is undergoing a warming similar to the warming many claim is happening here on earth. According to this 2007 article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece), Mars and Earth have both experienced about .5 C temperature increase since the 1970's. That suggests that global warming might be caused by something the two planets have in common: the sun. The energy and intensity of the Sun is not constant: it varies not only from day to day (minute variations) but from century to century.

It also appears that the sun's energy output is somewhat cyclical; some studies have shown that temperature cycles in Earth's climate are directly related to these sun cycles. Some scientists now believe that the Sun may be entering a "dimming" cycle that could mark the beginning of global cooling, according to this Investor's Business Daily (http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=287279412587175) article:


Back in 1991, before Al Gore first shouted that the Earth was in the balance, the Danish Meteorological Institute released a study using data that went back centuries that showed that global temperatures closely tracked solar cycles.

To many, those data were convincing. Now, Canadian scientists are seeking additional funding for more and better "eyes" with which to observe our sun, which has a bigger impact on Earth's climate than all the tailpipes and smokestacks on our planet combined.

And they're worried about global cooling, not warming.

Kenneth Tapping, a solar researcher and project director for Canada's National Research Council, is among those looking at the sun for evidence of an increase in sunspot activity.

Solar activity fluctuates in an 11-year cycle. But so far in this cycle, the sun has been disturbingly quiet. The lack of increased activity could signal the beginning of what is known as a Maunder Minimum, an event which occurs every couple of centuries and can last as long as a century.

Such an event occurred in the 17th century. The observation of sunspots showed extraordinarily low levels of magnetism on the sun, with little or no 11-year cycle.

This solar hibernation corresponded with a period of bitter cold that began around 1650 and lasted, with intermittent spikes of warming, until 1715. Frigid winters and cold summers during that period led to massive crop failures, famine and death in Northern Europe.

Frankly, if I were given the choice, I'd rather have global warming. Yes, it may raise some ocean levels; but we can survive that. What is more difficult to survive are global crop failures (no, not the occasional minor ones we have now, but truly global ones that reduce crop yields from 25 to 75 percent) that could result in famine for large parts of the world. This would almost inevitably led to political instability and numerous armed conflicts. Can one imagine the upheavals that would occur in China or India if they became unable to feed their populations?

Just a thought.

S--

[DiamondDog]

There is no such thing as global warming. Chuck Norris was cold, so he turned the sun up.

heh:)