Turn down your air conditioning. Nanny knows best.

[bisexualinsocal]

Nanny takes care of us now. All it cost us is our liberty!


California wants to control home thermostats

SAN FRANCISCO: The conceit in the 1960s show "The Outer Limits" was that outside forces had taken control of your television set.

Next year in California, state regulators are likely to have the emergency power to control individual thermostats, sending temperatures up or down through a radio-controlled device that will be required in new or substantially modified houses and buildings to manage electricity shortages.

The proposed rules are contained in a document circulated by the California Energy Commission, which for more than three decades has set state energy efficiency standards for home appliances, like water heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators.

The changes would allow utilities to adjust customers' preset temperatures when the price of electricity is soaring. Customers could override the utilities' suggested temperatures. But in emergencies, the utilities could override customers' wishes.

[shameless agitator]

It'll never pass. Even if it did, they would be easy to bypass.

[bisexualinsocal]

It'll never pass. Even if it did, they would be easy to bypass.

And it'd probably be against the law to bypass it. You're not understanding the nature of the manipulative nanny mind.

[FalconAngel]

First, the Patriot (?) act; Now this.

Big Brother is taking over slowly but surely.

I'm beginning to feel ashamed of serving this country.

[rock-g'sguy]

:flag2:
We here in Florida had to deal with something lick this... In Orlando area they have a box that controls the power that goes to your a/c unit that the power company controls. This really sucks during the summer months when it is 95.o out with 110% Humidity....We are able to turn it off or have it removed, but with permision only by the power company....
:flag2:

[The Barefoot Contess]

Bisexualinsoca, don't worry, this will never be a socialist/communist country, which seems to be your ultimate fear, at least not economically. We are way too greedy and fond of consumption to let it happen. As I said in another post, it seems that one of our most valued "freedoms" is the freedom to spend. Go ahead, spend as much electricity as you want. It should be a constitutional right: people should be able to spend as much as they want regardless of the consequences.

When it comes to morals, however, people seem to be much more willing to have a "nanny" state tell them what to think or what to do. Economic freedom and state-sanctioned morals is a dangerous combination.

[papa33566]

Well over here in tampa bay, TECO has a philosophy that if you can pay a $400.00 a month for electric then so be it and if they don;t have the power available, they will just "trip" a main breaker and no one will have any power...

[HighEnergy]

I could tolerate the one we had on our hot water heater in our other house, but the a/c? Yikes! I keep mine on what others consider a very high temp anyway. But my oldest daughter has asthma and had difficulty breathing when it's very hot, and humid especially. How would they deal with the times the a/c got turned down because she wasn't feeling well? That's rather scary for folks!

[darkeyes]

Bisexualinsoca, don't worry, this will never be a socialist/communist country, which seems to be your ultimate fear, at least not economically. We are way too greedy and fond of consumption to let it happen. As I said in another post, it seems that one of our most valued "freedoms" is the freedom to spend. Go ahead, spend as much electricity as you want. It should be a constitutional right: people should be able to spend as much as they want regardless of the consequences.

When it comes to morals, however, people seem to be much more willing to have a "nanny" state tell them what to think or what to do. Economic freedom and state-sanctioned morals is a dangerous combination.

Awwww yummie... will neva b socialist??? Yas rite in allya sed cept that....not cosya rong necessarily..but only cos nun of us know wot is far in the future... we dunno wots gonna happen tomoz for the most part.. me much more optimistic than that!!! Mite b rong..but thats the fun a havin opinions, beliefs an ideals. Espesh wen it gets up certain peeps noses an annoys the crap outa them....:bigrin: (naaa don mean u... yas luffly..):tong:

[12voltman59]

Just based on what the little bit of information that was provided initially---there a few operative words in there that need to be noted, primarily that the controls would go into effect in the case of "emergencies."

It does not say that the utilities are going to be controlling the thermostats of their customers as a regular standard operating procedure--merely in emergency situations.

I can tell you that power companies already do make decisions about where to direct power when they face electric shortages during times of excessive usages---California is one state that has had a large number of such situations in past years and we now find that most of those instances were manufactured thanks to those good folks at the now defunct ENRON who manipulated things in order to further fatten their bank accounts!!!

If, by reducing power to residential users in emergency cases--something they already do for large commericial users----and that such power reduction can avert either "brown outs" or actual power shut downs in the case of emergency--they should have the option to do that--brown outs cause their own problems and power shut downs can really muck up the electrical grid system. Full blown power outages caused by excessive use usually means that transformers blow out, substations get destroyed and lines can even break due to voltage fluctations. In a large scale shut down--it can sometimes take many hours to several days to get the whole grid back up and running.

They had a major problem down in South Florida today that shut down electricity to over a million people and even as I type this---the latest report said that while most do have power back--not all do.

I can tell you--we have a family business that is a foundry based in a mid-sized town in Indiana and we are the biggest user of electricity the municipal electrical power company has----we use large amounts of electricity to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars per month in electric bills.

We have big electrically powered furnaces that melt cast iron and they really suck up the juice---and when the power company is facing the possiblity of brown outs or even shutting down the grid (primarly on very hot summer days around mid to late afternoon)--they ask if we can shift the time we power up the furnaces to the wee hours of the day---we gladly do that--they could just shut us off if they wished since the law allows them to do so if we did not agree to shift our usage--and they do offer economic incentives for us to make that shift.

It sounds that on a residential basis--that is what the new law mentioned in this post is about---it is simply a way for those who direct power to have one more tool in their arsenal to avoid both brown outs, rolling shut offs of service or widedspread power shut downs.

Better to have things get a bit warmer than usual in your house for a few hours in order to keep the power going instead of a total shut down.

This is a tempest in a teapot and is no real big deal.

And like I said--we do live in an interconnected world--we all need to make some sacrifices from time to time.

Losing the ability to have your thermostat set where you want it all of the time is not some God given right---and the Republic is not going to come to an end because 30 days a year, or so, the electric power providers turn down your thermostat in order to avert widespread shut downs of electrical service.

[Falke]

snip


As was said before, just trip the breakers if there is a threat of a brownout. I would much rather be without and be uncomfortable for a few hours/days than being uncomfortable for months on end!

Besides, I wouldn't want any more government interference in my life and would try to disable the system any way I could.

[canuckotter]

Sounds like someone has an axe to grind... :rolleyes:

[12voltman59]

I did Google this subject and found these articles on this topic--

So folks--go read them and as the folks at FOX News like to say--"We Report--You Decide!"

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200801/NAT20080111a.html

http://www.gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/articleDE4320949AF549C1BC36637E222C632C.asp

And this is now a moot point for sure since:

http://awfulmarketing.com/index.php/2008/01/17/california-scraps-plan-to-control-residential-thermostats/

I do like the idea that many power companies are going to start offering thermostats that show you, moment-by-moment, the actual cost of the electricity you are using---for now--they are talking about simply providing this as an informational basis only--but some plans call for a "free and open market" of power rates to residential users meaning that like our company---you won't have a set rate for your electric power like most places have now--you will be charged the commodity rate for electric power and natural gas as well---so that would be the free market at work for all--and the days of set rates would be gone.

That would mean that billing programs like "level billing" where your electric company basically charges users what amounts to a flat rate set at certain times and price fluctiations that take place--are "leveled" out over the course of the year so you basically pay the same amount each month.

That will be good if you really are a true believer in the concept of the "free market"--but it will be hell on your budget since you won't know at all from month to month what your electric bills will be---but it would make people more cognizant of the electrical power they use and therefore, if one is practicing good budget control techniques and like a good business--you are trying to "control your costs."

That is one of the arguments for going to such a system. People will self-regulate themselves if they are forced to face and bear the "true" costs of the energy they use.

So--under a total free market program---you can still set your thermostat to be either very cold or hot depending on the season, but you will pay for that priviledge and just like the way we often shift our foundry melt times to 2 in the morning instead of 2 in the afternoon--you will run your dishwasher, clothes washer and dryer at 2 am in order to take advantage of cheaper nightime electric rates, if you act in the concept of "economic opportunity costs."

The power generating companies want this sort of system since they have to produce the same amount of electrical power at all times since they can't bank and store the excess electrical capacity they have available at night that basically, in most cases is wasted. It makes more economic sense for them.

If ya want to know why I do know about this---about a year ago--I sat through about a week of seminars and presentations on this subject put on by one of the power generation industry associations in which I got well versed in this material.

Do expect though--that if or when electric and natural gas rates are totally deregulated--your power bills will almost immediately jump quite substantially.

As far as your utility controlling your electric usage--I found this from the power company in Austin, TX

http://www.austinenergy.com/Energy%20Efficiency/Programs/Power%20Partner/index.htm

http://www.energyvortex.com/pages/headlinedetails.cfm?id=3153

Another link to the California situation:

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/124474.html

Here is a very good article from Forbes Online about the use of power rate indicating meters and "dynamic power use" or "smart grid" policies:

http://www.forbes.com/2007/08/14/smart-electric-grid-biz-wash-cz_ae_0815beltway.html

[12voltman59]

My last word on this--if you click on the link to the article that says that this whole issue was already resolved---the date of that was January 17--well in advance of the date that the California agency was going to make their decision on the matter and they had already backtracked on it.

This post was not made until the past 24 hours or so at this point---so why was this post even made about something that was already a dead issue???

Was it done just to stir things up???

What was the purpose of bringing up something that had no bearing on anything anyway????

[nothings5d]

This post was not made until the past 24 hours or so at this point---so why was this post even made about something that was already a dead issue???

Was it done just to stir things up???

Probably, that seems to be all he really does on this forum.

[bisexualinsocal]

My last word on this--if you click on the link to the article that says that this whole issue was already resolved---the date of that was January 17--well in advance of the date that the California agency was going to make their decision on the matter and they had already backtracked on it.

This post was not made until the past 24 hours or so at this point---so why was this post even made about something that was already a dead issue???

Was it done just to stir things up???

What was the purpose of bringing up something that had no bearing on anything anyway????


Not at all. I'm sorry you took it that way. The purpose was to point out the nanny mind and the nature of religious environmentalists. Finally Californians were vigilant in beating the religious environmentalists back into the fringes where they belong. That's rare in this state. Usually what happens is if nanny can't control it, nanny regulates it and if nanny can't regulate it, nanny taxes it.