Monogomous marriage and being bi? [Archive]

moongirl

Nov 27, 2005, 4:43 AM

I 've had yearnings towards women for 15 years and had a relationship with a woman last year (with my husband's knowledge). It is really hard to sit on this need, particularly (and I don't know this in your case) if you hadn't had the opportunity to discover it b4 marriage (as in my case). The years go by, it can eat away at you. Like we have this one life, what will we regret if we don't get to experience??

I guess the thing is, where's the "tolerance zone" between you and your wife. Like you've agreed, no actual extra marital sexual relationships (although you'll have seen from this site, there are lots of accommodations that committed longterm couples do make, so monogomy isn't the only way). But what can she tolerate - internet friendships? chatting on this site? cyber or phone sex? getting off on videos? Like, what accommodation can you come to so you have some outlet for expressing this part of yourself, and connect with others. HOw can she be reassured of your ability to keep up your emotional/sexual energy towards her?

YOu know, a friend of mine who is hetero, and her man - he likes to get off on internet porn. It's not my thing, she doesn't particularly like it, but she's at the point where she'll tolerate it if it doesn't go any further. To me, that's in the "tolerance zone" And shows hetero couples have to negotiate this stuff too - anyone in a longterm relationship does. I know so many people who have had affairs behind their partner's backs rather than be honest about their needs/ wants /feelings etc. And that I haven't and wouldn't do.

I'm a little philosophical as in my situation it's looking like we can't reach a resolution. stomach-turning & painful as it is. but I have respect for the journeys we all take to keep searching for ways thru this.

good luck

moongirl

Lorcan

Nov 27, 2005, 11:00 AM

My husband and i a basically monogamous. (Though we do leave the door open to finding the right guy and having him share our bed.) He seems to deal with it thru lots of fantasy of the aforemention sort.

Maybe it's easier because that was his choice and not a taboo i set upon him. He apparently doesn't want to go out a find a man to be alone with. At least not yet, and we've been married 11 years. He seems to be getting more comfortable with his choice thru the years.

But i can't speak to his mindset. Maybe he'll post here.

csrakate

Nov 27, 2005, 3:53 PM

Whether you are bi or not, you give up some things by being in a monogamous relationship. I don't actually think that bisexual people are any more hard done by than any other sexual orientation on that front.

I guess my answer then is, yes, you just have to accept it. Try not to think of it as denying half of yourself. The truth is that there is a lot more to you than who you desire. You're really only denying one of the many cravings that we all have. And you don't even have to completely deny it. There's always porn, stories, your imagination... the list goes on.

I will sympathise with this: it sucks when you can't have everything that you want.

However, it's wonderful to be happily married to the woman you love. With that in mind, the idea of cheating really becomes a non issue.

bediddle,

Bless you...you have said it so well....and as a wife of a bisexual who has chosen to remain monogamous throughout our 25 year marriage, I thank you for your words!

Hugs,
Kate

Ratchick

Nov 27, 2005, 4:56 PM

Everyone has forgotten the question and jumped on CelticKuma like he has already cheated.

HE and his Spouse need to discuss this and not smoosh those feelings JUST because they are married.
I suggest couples theorpy.

You can deny your feelings all you want, and maybe you will never feel the need to "Cheat".

But, why suffer and supress feelings when you and your wife can possibly work-out an agreement that may make her comfortable. IF you dicuss and she can't find an agreement that makes you comfortable, then so be it, but to just say, : "No way" right off is such a perochial (SPelling?) attitude. Very American and limited.
Many couples with Bisexual spouses have polyamourous arrangements that range from allowing the Bisexual partner have same sex/Safe sex Encounters, all the way to the other end of having a Triad relationship where a same sex partner is added to the relationship, alltogether.
I think in marriages where the Bisexual partner is asked to supress thier sexuality, it is more likely the relationship wont last, eventually.
Not garunteed, just more likely.

I guess I am saying...couples theropy, or talking it out with a moderator is the best way to go. Ignoring it and just assuming that marriage means monogomy MAY spell-out unhappiness later in your marriage.

There is no "One way" about anyone's relationship. And to just assume that because Celtic is married there is only one way to deal with his sexuality is wrong.
I do caution that in no way am I advocating "Cheating" or dishonesty. You must talk this out with your partner and be open and honest at all times.

Polyamoury is not for everyone, but it is an option.

RC

bediddle

Nov 27, 2005, 5:15 PM

I certainly don't assume that marriage means monogmay. While I'm not married, the only real difference between my relationship and married relationships is that piece of paper. We have been together for 7 years (cohabitating for about 4) and we are not monogamous. I speak from personal experience when I say that I believe nonmonogamy can work wonderfully. However, I think it's seriously harmful to be in a position where one partner is trying to convince the other to allow a nonmonogamous relationship. There are just too many hazards in pressuring your partner into that type of relationship. Personally, if my partner had shown any resistance to the idea I would have dropped it immediately.

I'm not saying that celtic is a cheater. However, he brought up the possibility of cheating. I think we all just got a little worried.

It sounds as though celtic has approached his wife with the possiblity of nonmonogamy and his wife has made it clear that right now she's not interested. So, he's not really in a position to be pushing the point.

I do completely agree with the fact that you could benefit from some more communication on the subject. If you haven't already, celtic, make sure that your wife understands what you're thinking and listen very carefully to what she's thinking. Therapy is always fun for that type of thing.

wellred

Nov 27, 2005, 7:11 PM

Dear CelticKuma,

I have re-read your original post and the subsequent responses several times. This has caused me to wonder if the responses are in concert with your inquiry. There is always the risk of identifying too closely with our own agenda and not hearing your plight. Please ignore my comments if they are not meaningful for you.

You speak about monogamy as a lifestyle that your wife wants, i.e., “so long as she wants it that way.” Yet, you describe yourself as living “like being half celibate monk”.

I would like to address a couple of points. In traditional western culture, monogamy is an expectation of the marriage vows. My view of marriage is that it is a set of promises that couples make with each other as they enter into an intended life-long commitment. The promises are typically made rather blindly, not knowing much about what will unfold for us as we move forward. These promises also do not come with instructions about how to fulfill them. So after the festivities of the wedding, comes the journey of figuring out how this partnership is to unfold.

You describe your commitment to this marriage and I respect the way that you honor your wife’s boundaries regarding your bisexual bend. As noted in her post, Lorcan has wisely not mandated a particular style for her husband. However, all are unable or unwilling to set the same boundaries as Lorcan and her husband have. Your thread does not clarify the duration of your marriage; but regardless of its length there is an ongoing process of negotiation, as one may find in any business relationship. You and your wife must establish and continually re-establish boundaries and guidelines that are true for your unique situation. And that sounds like what you are doing.

However, if you change (or propose to change) the agreement with your wife, you must be prepared for the unexpected consequences that comes with an alteration in the blueprint. Although we may say that if “x” happens, then the expected reaction will be “y”. But we truly do not know how we will react to an actual change until we are in that situation. So keeping a balance with your wife is important. It is also key to understand that you are dealing with feelings and potential behavior that she has not agreed to accept in the original marriage contract. She has entered into the relationship trusting your commitment to her.

The second part of this situation is your sexual satisfaction. As stated elsewhere, monogamy brings sexual fulfillment to the exclusiveness of two people. Presumably, you have agreed to the oneness of this arrangement, so it really becomes irrelevant that you cannot be with two genders. What you describe as a half life seems to be what you have elected for your full life. So how do you make this life, as you have chosen, the fullest possible life within this compromise?

Therefore, an issue appears to be your view sexual fulfillment. Much of this depends upon your desire to hold your commitments as it contrasts with your sexual desires to be with someone other than your wife.

With your permission, I would like to share my view of sexual fulfillment. I believe it is the ultimate celebration of life. When you feel wonderful about yourself and your mate, sex is the most rewarding of life experiences, totally surrendering to each other in pure, pleasurable abandonment. Certainly, there are lots of other ways to have sex; but in a commitment relationship, this type of sexual experience is a joyful occasion or, better yet, pattern of such occasions.

None of this precludes sexual fantasy, or sexual exploration within the agreements of your marriage. You apparently love your wife. You do not want to be in a position of repressing a portion of yourself. Celebrate who you are! Your bisexuality gives you a dimension of understanding and loving that many others do not have. Acting sexually with anyone other than your wife does not seem prudent as you describe your situation. Consequently, you have a life to live that many would envy.

There are many lonely people in our world, who have not found the love and commitment that you apparently share with your wife. I wish you every success in fulfillment.

If I may be of assistance to you as you continue to explore this important process, I am happy to do so.

With Love and Light,
Red

CelticKuma

Nov 27, 2005, 10:02 PM

Bi-ten

Nov 27, 2005, 10:38 PM

Hi Celtickuma,

First I want to say that I do feel empathy for your situation, I have been there and it is not easy.

Second I find anyone that asks me 'are you sure your bi' or 'how do you know' to be quite amusing. How does one really know anything...I know I like pizza, beer, sex...but somehow if I like men and women I must be confused!

Third, I think you alread have your answer...you need to continue on your present course, communicate with your wife, respect her needs and try to somehow fulfill yours within the boundaries of your conscience.

Best of luck to you!

csrakate

Nov 28, 2005, 4:37 AM

CelticKuma,
In response to your question:

I'm wondering if there's anyone else out there who has taken the monogomous pledge and how you deal with it?

I have sent you a private message...let me know if you want to discuss this further. I realize that I am the other half...but I can still fill you in on how we have dealt with it.

Hugs,
Kate

donie

Nov 28, 2005, 6:18 AM

My wife and I are monogomous, and so long as she wants it that way, so it shall be. I have no intent to destroy our marriage by betraying her trust.

But, being bi, this is really tough for me. At least when a straight person is in a monogomous relationship, they may only have sex with one person but it's with the gender they desire. But I get to have sex with only half the genders I desire.

How do I deal with this? How do others deal with it? It's like being half celibate monk. I know the right answer is, just accept it. So long as I don't want to cheat, I just have to deal with repressing that half of me.

Maybe I just want some sympathy. =)

Hello. I have been bisexual and marreid for over thirty years. I was upfront about my sexuality with my wife before we married but bear in mind that we were very young. I had a boyfriend whom I would go spend time with about once or twice a month with her knowledge. She liked him the few times she met him. Later on I would develop other male-male sexual relationships, some of which she did not know about. Everytime I had been with a man, my lovemaking with my wife was most intense and passionate, I supposed because my dual desires for men and women were being satisfied.

Fast forward; in our fifteenth year of marriage, I developed a particularly passionate (and secretive)sexual relationship with a man and made the mistake of falling in love with him.

In a moment of perhaps ill-timed honesty, I told my wife that I was sleeping with him and I must tell you we almost got divorced over it. I had no idea she would be so threatened and put out by the whole thing but I must have for otherwise I would not have been so secretive about it in the forst place. She confessed to me that she never felt comfortable with my seeing other men and felt increasingly threatened by any other relationships I maight have.

She forgave me my indiscretions and I decided to focus on our relationship exclusively. Yes, I am still bisexual and after years of avoiding any male-male
relationships; I attend a church with a large gay congegation; have gay and bisexual friends(whom my wife has met and likes)and have a generally full life without feeling "repressed" as much about my attraction to men.

While we have had the usual ups and downs of any marriage and my libido has taken somewhat of a hit with exclusive heterosexual behavior; we all have to make choices in life. I love my wife and could never hurt her as I did. We have a good marriage and have put ourselves first in our relationship with each other. We are pretty candid with each other and she knows that I will always also be attracted to men but it is important that she be number one in my life and so she is.

My advice to you is that while I understand exactly what you are going through; evaluate what you want out of your marriage. Few marriages survive anything less than 100% commitment and sexual exclusivity.

You simply cannot have everything you want. No one can..that's life.

You can always fantasize!

Good luck.

mike9753

Nov 28, 2005, 1:18 PM

I think you know the answers to your questions already. For me, I value my marriage - to jepordize it because I'd like to experience sex with a man seems rediculous. My wife knows I am bi or at least that I am very interested in the concept, but she also knows that I love her and value what we have more than I value going outside. I also firmly believe that even if she were to tell me it's OK to have man2man sex, it would hurt us by damaging that which we share.

So I fantasize, read all sorts of wonderful and awful gay adn bi porn and share my fantasies with her when she is open to them - not often, but occasionally.

If I let my sexual inclinations rule my behavior, my life would not be happy. I feel that as an adult, there are just some things, some experiences that I cannot have and as an adult, I should be able to live with that reality and be happy with what I have, because what I have is incredibly good.

I don't know if this answers your question(s) or not. It's just how I deal with it in my own head. Oh, and I forgot, I have had a great deal of help from all the wonderful contributors to this forum and others on Bisexual.com

Mike

Ratchick

Nov 28, 2005, 1:43 PM

I can't help but say a lot of you paint a pretty grim life for this guy. There are so many honest options out there. Just dening his sexuality and such right off the bat, with out even dicussing other options is so grim.
What is he supposed to do if "Grinning and bearing" it doesn't work?
Better to dicuss it out in the open with his spouse first.

I also resent the inclination that "givning-in to ones sexual desires" is immature or wrong. What is immature or wrong is Lieing about it and cheating. There are honest and open ways to have a bisexual partner and understanding what that bisexual partner needs. Polyamoury is not immature, in fact it takes a great deal of maturity to make it work.

rc

CelticKuma

Nov 28, 2005, 2:40 PM

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone!
I appreciate it. And am interested to see the various viewpoints.
Lest I'm misunderstood, realize that while this is a significant problem, it's not life-threatening. =) My wife is my life-mate. In everything else that matters, we're perfect matches. There's no way I can find anyone else out there that matches me in everything else that one would want in a mate to spend one's life with. Which is why I really want to work this issue out, and why it's very important for me to make clear that I don't want in any way to do anything to hurt our relationship, from cheating to pushing something onto her that will make her resentful and hurt.

At the very worst, I'm resigned to supressing part of me, but I realize just supressing can destroy our relationship as well. I know communication is key (we've avoided a divorce years ago because we finally understood the need for communication.) But sometimes, it doesn't seem enough to just express oneself if the situation doesn't/can't change.

Maybe I just need to vent and get it off my chest. =)
Thanks, all!

leizy

Nov 28, 2005, 5:13 PM

I'm right there with you Celtic. I "took the monogamous" pledge, without really understanding how hard it was going to be. I knew i was bi, so did she, but I thought that it wouldn't be as hard as it has been. We and I do a lot of work around it. I've found things like this forum, writing, and gay/bi friends, where I can express my bisexuality, w/out having sex with men. We watch bi porn together every now and then, and we have some strap-ons and dildos we play with together. We do a lot of fantasizing together. Yes, it's still hard, and I still struggle at times, but ultimately, I'm gaining a sense of peace with being bi and monogamous. We've agreed that if the right guy comes along, great. Till then, I want to lead with my heart and head, not my dick.

cheers.
d

Courious64

Nov 28, 2005, 7:39 PM

Thanks all for your replies!
Actually, we've been married 14 years now. There was a time, around years 6 and 7 that we had an open marriage. During that time, she was able to explore her bi-curiousness, (and discovered she really wasn't,) but I didn't get a chance to explore mine before the situations changed requiring us to close our marriage again.
(Birth of our first kid, then change of desire and expectations, etc.)
No, to respond to one replier, I'm not looking for permission from her to cheat.
Yes, I'd like us to have an open marriage again, but as equal partners. I really don't want a one-sided arrangement.
I'm wondering if there's anyone else out there who has taken the monogomous pledge and how you deal with it?

PS: To head off any comments of "Wait, you mean you haven't experienced bi yet? Then how do you know?" Well, how does a straight virgin know their straight? I'm not just curious, I KNOW. =)

Hello Celtic,

I am journeying the road you are describing. I have been married now for 14 years and only recently came out to my hubby about my bi curiousity. I had been completely silent. Not ever saying anything, not ever leaving clues, always aware of noticing another woman to long...ect. I Finally told him and he is very open to me exploring my feelings. Although I do see his hesitations. And I have prepared myself for the off chance that he may close the door to an open relationship, if I find one. However the past several months (since I came out to him) I have felt much more free. We notice women together .....which is very interesting since we seem to have the same taste and just the complete verbal openness of our conversations have seemed to help me so emensly.

When I commited to my marriage that was all that I knew. As I say I am bi curious I have not been with another woman yet..... I don't know what I'm missing although just the small free feeling of comeing out to my spouse has opened my eyes to the possiblities of much more. And his acceptance is worth so much. I have felt my curiousity since I was very young and During my marriage at times I did feel like exploding but I kept my silence the only reason for speeking now was the fact that he and I have been exploreing sexual pleasures and I felt that he was ready to accept this about me, and I was ready to accept this about me as well. Life doesnt get longer, it only gets shorter. Wish I knew what I know now when I was younger. Probably would have done everything I did and then some of the things I didn't. If I can help or you just want to talk message me.

take care
Hugs and kisses
courious64
:female:

CelticKuma

Nov 28, 2005, 8:57 PM

Life doesnt get longer, it only gets shorter. Wish I knew what I know now when I was younger.

Ain't THAT the truth! "The irony of life is that you live it forward and understand it backward."

Thanks for the reply, courious. =) I appreciate the feedback and your sharing.
Good luck to you as well! :cool:

moongirl

Nov 29, 2005, 4:59 AM

I like the points Ratchick made. I think that over time, having to "hold in" your bisexual side does impact on intimacy and closeness in your relationship in other ways. I think it's difficult territory, but what is your relationship if you can't honestly address your different needs? I also wonder if western culture still has this "calvinistic" undertone about sexuality - if you "give in" to these desires or express them in some way (eg thru non-physical contact) then it's all downhill to sodam & gommorrah from there. As if, as adults, we can't say, ok, here is the agreed boundary, yes I can stick to that.

And I understand the points about "well if your partner wants a heterosexual affair on the side that's the same' - I've had plenty of that perspective from my husband and other people he's talked to. And I understand it , I don't argue it. ( I just didn't expect it here on this site, but that's democracy I guess) . But for me it's not the same - I fantasize about other men but it doesn't actively bother me that I can't be with them emotionally/sexually. It's a fantasy thing, not a need. I won't live my life regretting - "if only I'd been with more men".

And by the time we're done in our marriage it will have been just on 20 years - and for the first 18 & 1/2 I was faithful and monogomous. So I have a little experience of monogamy too.

moongirl

rupertbare

Nov 29, 2005, 7:15 AM

"The irony of life is that you live it forward and understand it backward."
rofl!!!! and ain't that THAT the TRUTH!!! lol!!! Wonderful quote!! Thanks for that!!

As for the original question of "how to cope" - well visit here for one thing - use the chat room - the forums - it does help. Otherwise it's just like any other unfulfilled desire - you learn to live without!! lol!! Face it, how many times have you been so wound up by someone, or a situtation, that you feel it would be very easy to harm or maybe even kill?? Extreme example, yes, but I'm sure you get my drift. As a married bi-man who has remained faithful throughout my 15 year marriage I do understand how tough it can be at times.

With love and peace from London, UK

Rupe. :)

CelticKuma

Nov 29, 2005, 9:06 AM

"The irony of life is that you live it forward and understand it backward."
rofl!!!! and ain't that THAT the TRUTH!!! lol!!! Wonderful quote!! Thanks for that!!
Yeah, it's one of my favorites. Kirkagaard I believe.
My 1st of my three favorite quotes is:
"When making your choice life, don't neglect to live."
Samual Johnson.

As for the original question of "how to cope" - well visit here for one thing - use the chat room - the forums - it does help.
[..snip..]
With love and peace from London, UK

Rupe. :)

Yeah, I've been spending time around the site, and it has been pretty helpful! A good way to channel.
Thanks for the feedback!
Peace

BiBiologist

Nov 29, 2005, 10:34 AM

There seems to be a clear division here and in numerous other threads between those who believe that in a marriage:
A bisexual must suppress his/her urge/desire/need for an intimate same-sex relationship as being "just like any other unfulfilled desire,"
and those who believe:
You cannot simply tough it out and you will have a long, happy, monogamous marriage.

I believe this division results from the fact that we are on a continuum (as illustrated by the Kinsey scale) of sexuality. Some that come to this site don't feel the needs so greatly as others do, and to state that we should all be able to handle monogamy in the same way is like heterosexuals not understanding any type of same-sex attraction and ostracizing those who display GLB behavior. Of all people, we on this site should be open to the idea that some of us really DO have more intense needs, and are not just "being greedy", "wanting more than our share", "just making an excuse to cheat," etc. For me it is like CelticKuma said, like trying to be a celibate monk on one side. It is wonderful if you have a loving monogamous marriage and are able to just put your bi feelings aside, but please try to imagine that for some, coping with this may be more extreme than it is for you. A little further out on the scale, and some of us might be completely gay. So why is it so hard to realize that, without the benefits of marriage (including social acceptance) being extended to same-sex couples, many bi's would marry and try to live under the rules of monogamous marriage? This is especially true for those who were unsure of their sexuality when they were married. I think we need to be more open to the varying needs of those within our own group.

wellred

Nov 29, 2005, 1:30 PM

With great respect to the various opinions that are expressed here and on other posts, my intent is to "hear" the voice of the original poster. Where I can, I try to support their position, to help them see another frame around their scenario, and to offer suggestions for finding the essence of their being.

The continuum of variety in bisexuality is not unlike any other of life's continuums. It matters not what values I hold, but it does greatly concern me that if a member of this community posts an emotional or intellectual struggle that we offer our very best to help them on their journey.

Many of our life choices are not easy, may contain undesired compromise, sometimes require putting the needs of others before our own, or may be truly heart-wrenching. Yet, there are joys and surprised in the admixture of life.

May we all find our way with grace and happiness.

With Love and Light,
Red

csrakate

Nov 29, 2005, 1:58 PM

BiBiologist

Nov 29, 2005, 3:39 PM

What I heard in the original post was a situation similar to my own, only I've been married and monogamous for 23 years, half my life. There have been some good suggestions, including cyber exploration, and communicating and negotiating. It seems, though, that even in this venue when a suggestion involves the heterosexual partner making the compromise, it is more likely to be looked on as wrong, cheating, or adultery. CelticKuma and others in the same boat who have brought up these same questions and concerns should not be looked on as selfish or inconsiderate for thinking of asking their spouses for such a compromise. I have put my parents, husband, and children ahead of my needs for intimacy with another woman, but I feel emotionally like I'm hanging by my thumbs. If I ask for a compromise, I will hurt my husband. If I divorce so as to avoid cheating or asking for that compromise, I will hurt lots of people. If I keep holding this in, I'm not sure that I won't lose myself and become useless to my family. I've been tough for a long time. I'm just asking that people entertain and accept the idea that a compromise by the heterosexual partner might be the least damaging compromise in some of our cases, and not judge us as weak or inconsiderate. If we can't ask for open-mindedness here, where will we go then?

CelticKuma

Nov 29, 2005, 3:58 PM

BiBiologist, you've struck some chords with me at least.
I absolutely hate that there's no perfect answer. I feel like there should be.
I hate that the best answer is what course causes the least problems/damage.
I hate that whether it's innate or social conditioning, I feel like a cad/putz/prick/cad/selfish dolt for desireing more than my spouse can provide.
I think compromises can be made with various discussed techniques, fantasy, role-play, toys, etc, that can turn back the growing frustration to some, even significant, degree...but the needs/wants/desires for the real thing will always be there. And I hate the idea that I may end up feeling resentful, because of something that's no one's fault.
And I'm left feeling like a selfish prick for feeling that way. But if I do anything other than go up to her level of comfort and then repress the rest, then I'll certainly be doing a lot more damage, as BiBiologist has said, to a lot more than just my own psyche.

*sigh*

wellred

Nov 29, 2005, 5:27 PM

Dear BiBiologist and CelticKuma,

If I have written anything that implies a judgement or in anyway adds to your angst, I apologize. For me, this thread has been one of the most reflective, seemingly honest and stimulating that I have read on this site in a while.

I, too, identify with your thoughts and feelings. I, also, hate that I have not found a better solution in my own life. "Hanging by the thumbs" and self-repression are very painful attributes, as are resentment and degredation.

Though it is certainly possible, our chosen mates may not be able or willing to compromise in this regard. As you have articulated well, CelticKuma, these situations are not anyone's fault. Yet we are all responsible. Perhaps, our responsible can only be nobly carried forward given our best intentions and the resources available. As we are all connected, any action or lack of action has an impact on others. So we do the best that we can, with no perfect answers and one answer fitting all.

I ache for what I preceive to be your pain, or again that may merely be a project of my own. Yet, I do believe that I can make the best choices for myself when I focus on what I have rather than what I am missing, building on the emotional bonds with my mate instead of dwelling on the absences. And that is what I have attempted, without a much clarity or success, to describe in my early comments.

Who knows; at the end of my life, the reflective echo may simply be: "What were you thinking...what the hell where you thinking?"

Again, I wish you the very best in finding your peace, in your way, on your journey.

With Love and Light,
Red

CelticKuma

Nov 29, 2005, 5:43 PM

Yet, I do believe that I can make the best choices for myself when I focus on what I have rather than what I am missing, building on the emotional bonds with my mate instead of dwelling on the absences.
Agreed. That really is the best way to go about things.
And I know that to be true. And that's the path that I should/will/ and mostly have, taken.

But man, it's hard to ignore those absences sometimes. Sometimes it feels like missing an icecream when on a diet. (Something I'm experiencing now. :bigrin: ) You'd love to have one, but you can sure do without, and it's forgotten after 5 minutes.
But sometimes it feels like an absence of food. An aching, craving, hole in your gut that you can't push out of your mind. And of course, TRYING to push it out is like trying to not think of the white elephant in the room. =)

Thanks for the reply, wellred. Much appreciated!

BiBiologist

Nov 29, 2005, 7:10 PM

Thanks Guys,
I appreciate your responses!!

nerdslut

Dec 1, 2005, 1:21 AM

If you don't want to have sex with only one person, don't get married.

Very simple to the 18-year-old brain, probably gets more complicated with age.

Meinbruder

Dec 1, 2005, 12:36 PM

What I heard in the original post was a situation similar to my own, only I've been married and monogamous for 23 years, half my life. There have been some good suggestions, including cyber exploration, and communicating and negotiating. It seems, though, that even in this venue when a suggestion involves the heterosexual partner making the compromise, it is more likely to be looked on as wrong, cheating, or adultery. CelticKuma and others in the same boat who have brought up these same questions and concerns should not be looked on as selfish or inconsiderate for thinking of asking their spouses for such a compromise.

This post has been like a hammer stroke to the temple. Thanks BiBiologist, I needed that. Your entire post is like looking into a mirror and your comments on cheating and compromise are particularly stinging. This whole thread has made me realize that I have compromised away the best years of my life and the need to fulfill my desires is about to break my mind. My life is on the cusp of a major change and I don’t plan on repressing myself much longer.

I have been haunting the forums for a while now and want everyone to know their wisdom and comments have brought a sense of peace to me. I suppose I should post more, but so many people here say things so well it’s hard to follow up with anything else. This site and the forums are like finally coming home, thanks to all for opening the door.

:shades:

BiBiologist

Dec 2, 2005, 12:11 AM

Hi Meinbruder,
Not sure whether to say thanks or your welcome... Just telling it like it is for me and trying to keep from going over the edge. Hope you can find a way to be happy.
sam

JohnnyV

Dec 3, 2005, 11:47 PM

Celtic Kuma,

Here's what happened in my case: My wife finally told me, "go for it." She gave me a green light to go and mess around with guys. I almost fainted.

But guess what? I never did it. I realized that to find the right guy to play around with, 1) I'd have to know him well enough to know he was clean, 2) he'd have to be okay with me being married, 3) we'd have to be discreet enough not to make my wife uncomfortable, 4) our schedules and meeting places would have to be arranged without putting me in any danger of exposure, 5) I'd have to be certain HE was okay with it and wouldn't flip it.

Where the Hell was I supposed to find someone like that? I itched to go to a bathhouse but then I remembered the sleazy smell of poppers, the fungus growing in the showers, and the lecherous men oozing with viruses I didn't want to bring home. I trolled around gay.com and found so much nastiness and game-playing, not a single chat ever resulted in a meeting. I even ventured to gay bars but realized that none of them were comfortable with my being married.

The end result: I went far afield to come home empty-handed. Not even a jerkoff session.

If you and your wife talk about it, I bet you you'll end up in a similar boat. Right now it may seem like there's this vast world of gay romping you're missing out on, but once you're free to roam, you'll realize that the wild wild West isn't that great after all.

J

2curioustwo

Dec 6, 2005, 7:04 PM

This is a big and very tricky subject. I've been married eight years and we are still working it out. Heres a brief outline of our adventures so far...

Before we married I did briefly bring up the subject of 3 or 4somes with my wife, felt it would not be honest not to, it was something a always fantasied about. Her response was "maybe in a few years". I was not 100% sure if I would ever actually want to be with a guy at that time and didn't bring up my bi curiosity explicity but would occassionally joke about other guys so she knew I wasn't homophobic but was bi accepting. This also meant I knew she was not m-m homophobic either, some women are.

A few years into our marriage I felt the bi itch becoming very strong and brought it up with my wife. She wasn't keen. I stopped mentioning it and thought I could just supress it. Six months later I was starting to go crazy always thinking about guys and eventually had a once off with a guy. While it was satisfying I realised after our liason that he was looking for something different than I was and we didn't get together again. I was then able to put my m-m thoughts in the back of my mind for a few months but that was all. I felt bad about going behind my wifes back and decided to talk to my wife again and told her what I had done. She was horrified, felt quite rightly I had cheated on her and it took many months to sort it out, she was talking about leaving for a while. It was pretty full on, she hated the deception and the STD risk too. The m-m stuff got put on the back burner again for a few years.

Recently I began really wanting guys again and we talked it through. In the meantime she had slowly become more accepting and we occasionally acted out some m-m fantasies - she likes sticking her fingers in my ass during foreplay and sex and we even tried a strapon but found that the dildo worked bettter for me out of the harness. While working all this out we watched some bi porn and she was fine with it. Alot of this stuff was originally brought up as a joke "e.g. maybe you could use a strapon on me :bigrin:" and if she was fine with it at that level I would later make it clear it was something I actually wanted. :yikes2:

I am now in the very lucky position of having a wife who understands that I want sex that she cannot provide but there is no chance of me running off with a guy (I can't imagine being romantically interested in a guy). We talk things through and I won't ask her to do anything outside her boundarys, but these boundarys do change gradually over time with discussion and experience. We had one meeting with a single guy but she decided that she preferred another couple as they have each other and she won't feel jealous or pressured that way. We have now played with two couples, once good and once not so good but neither were a perfect match, ideally we want ONE couple we can meet regularly that don't plan to bonk half the city! She does rarely have some doubts (usually if something else is getting her down) but is pretty OK with it all now. I love seeing her with another lover and she even found she enjoys watching me with someone else too.

I DON'T RECOMMEND CHEATING it was the wrong thing to do and I nearly lost her. I do reccommend being open and honest and VERY patient, we have been married eight years and are still working this out but seem to be getting there finally. This is not something that will be worked out in a week or month for most people. I think that we need to recognise that our partners love us and at least some (most?) will come to understand our needs if given enough time to get used to everything.

JohnnyV

Dec 6, 2005, 11:08 PM

2 Curious,

It sounds like you had an interesting journey with your wife. I haven't been able to get to the couple-sharing stage yet. Oddly enough, the more I talk openly with my wife about my horniness for guys the less need I feel to actually do anything with men. Sometimes I got worked up talking about it and I have sex with her and it's over. It's so funny how things evolve.

J

moongirl

Dec 7, 2005, 3:22 AM

2 curious
Please tell your lady I think she's amazing for what she has been able to work thru with you, and how she has been willing to shift her boundaries to accommodate you. You have obviously done alot of work in reassuring her that she is the primary person in your life too.
As someone who, heartbreakingly, hasn't been able to work it thru (we both did our best but couldn't find an agreed "tolerance zone") I am reassured, maybe for the future, that there are some people who can work something out beyond the norm. And stay committed to each other.

best wishes and thanx for your input into this thread

moongirl

OralBradley

Dec 16, 2005, 2:57 PM

Do you care if your wife has sex with another man since she isn't bi? You're having sex with another person, male or female, is the same equivalent if you married and have the traditional marital agreement, to be with only her. I take it you desire adultery with her consent so you feel you aren't cheating? Maybe you and she can make a compromise.
Good luck to you!

:flag3: :male: Certainly, if I am to have sex with others, whether they are male or female, my wife should have the same perogative. It's not that I don't care, because I do. I want her to be happy and need to comport myself in a manner that will at least not destroy her happiness. In my case that doesn't lessen my want to be with another man on occasion.

bigrizz10

Dec 16, 2005, 3:47 PM

Well if your wife knows your bi I would talk to her about getting a strapon. It can be just as fun as the real thing

kerryj

Dec 16, 2005, 9:00 PM

CelticKuma, I feel your pain. I don’t know if there is anything that I can add to the many wonderful answers that you have already received in this thread. Obviously there are two sides to this question, and both sides have done a great job of stating their beliefs. It is a balancing act, and a difficult one at that. You and I are alike in many ways, but different in the fact that I have had the opportunity to play on both sides of the fence, while you have not had an opportunity to explore the male side. You must have a million thoughts and ideas bouncing around in your head about what it's really like to be with a man.

We are alike in the fact that we’re both married to our soul mates, and believe me, there aren’t a lot of people out there who can say that.

My second wife and I played a lot back in the late 70’s and early 80’s. We both discovered our bisexuality at the same time and totally indulged in it. We were swingers, we had an open marriage and could party with strangers anytime we chose. We became sex addicts. It finally led to a divorce when she met someone who was 10 years younger and floated her boat better than I could (or so she thought at the time). She just packed her stuff and left me. I was hurt, bitter, and swore that I would never marry again. It would have been the perfect time for me to jump ship and start playing with guys, but I never did. AIDS had come along, and I wasn’t sure what was safe and what wasn’t. I was so tempted, but so scared at the same time, so I backed off for a while. A few months after my marriage crashed, I met the woman who would later become wife #3. I know it sounds story-like, but we started out as good friends and the relationship developed from there. She was everything that I had been looking for and there is no doubt that she is my soul mate for life. I would trust her with my life and know that she would do the same for me. I know her well enough to know that she would not understand my bisexuality, even the stuff that took place before we met. We never discussed it and probably never will.

Your original question was about others who had taken the monogamous pledge and how they have dealt with it over the years. Well, I took it 19 years ago and have not strayed. Never. Tempted? You bet. Willing to throw everything away and start over again a 4th time? Nope. Willing to risk my health or the health of my loved one? No way. Trust is something that is earned, not given, and I would never do anything to break the trust that my wife has in me. We have a wonderful sex life and it’s very fulfilling.

I agree wholeheartedly with Red when he said:

"Yet, I do believe that I can make the best choices for myself when I focus on what I have rather than what I am missing, building on the emotional bonds with my mate instead of dwelling on the absences."

Some folks here, including yourself, may be looking at your glass as half empty, I want to tell you that I believe that it’s half full.

I also want to agree completely with JohnnyV when he stated so perfectly:

"Right now it may seem like there's this vast world of gay romping you're missing out on, but once you're free to roam, you'll realize that the wild wild West isn't that great after all."

(sorry, I haven't figured out how to capture and post quotes yet)

There you have one of the major hurdles of today. Even if your wife gave you the go ahead tomorrow, where would you go to play? I’m not bashing the m2m world of sex, I love it and I enjoyed it and played in it as much as anyone-but it was relatively safe "back in the days". I think it's a fair statement to say that it is a whole lot more dangerous these days. Would you really put your wife’s life at risk to indulge your fantasies? Your own life? Trust me, I’ve tried sucking a condom covered cock, it’s terrible, and not much of a turn on. To do it any other way today is just asking for trouble. If you'd like to get the taste, just put a comdom on a dildo and have at it. Would you have all your potential male partners submit to taking a HIV test before starting in with them? Do you think you're a top or a bottom? If you're a bottom, do you want some guy boinking you with a condom that might break during your playdate? Talk about worry. I know it's a long shot, but it does happen occasionally. I’m afraid that you missed the window for relatively safe m2m sex, it was 25 years ago. Guys are barebacking again, throwing caution to the wind and HIV is making a comeback. It seems that people today think that there are drugs out there that can take care of HIV with no problem and it’s just not so-it’s an awful way to have to live. I'm afraid that the virus has totally destroyed all the pleasures of casual m2m sex forever.

Yes, it is difficult to be bisexual and want to play in both worlds, but in my mind, there is no alternative. Love your wife, cherish your relationship, and don’t do anything to spoil what you have. Keep your fantasies as fantasies, and focus on taking care of what you have built over the years. You're a lucky man to have such a loving relationship.

Thanks for listening. Not sure if this will help or just complicate things for you, but it's my answer to your question.

Take care and good luck

kerry

DareMe

Dec 16, 2005, 10:43 PM

Charlie70

Jan 23, 2006, 9:46 AM

Being in the same boat about your age I repressed my Bi urgings until i was 38-40. At first I had many guilt feelings, but I continued. One day I cam to the realization that I had been Bi since I was 12 i could no longer repress something that was natural. society wants us to believe that Bi or Gay is un-natural or a sin, but I believe our sexuality is in our genes and we have to learn to deal wity it if we are to enjoy life to the fullest.

One day you will learn to love yor self and who you are and accept the fact that you need all life has to offer.

2ferinindy

Jan 23, 2006, 1:48 PM

Hi,
I'd like to respond as the str8 female half of a couple where the man is bi. First off, I want to commend you for your integrity! When we were married 10 years ago, he was not up front with me about his sexuality. After two years of marriage he admitted he was bi, and we introduced toys to the bedroom. This helped, but as a woman I'll be the first to admit that toys are no substitute to the real thing. :2cents: There were infidelities and much pain and depression, as well as anger. I could accept his bisexuality, but not the broken promises, or the unprotected sex we had while he was being unfaithful. I can tell you it could be a long hard road for both of you. I'll admit that acceptance did not come over night. I think it would have been much easier if he had been more truthful with himself or with me. Now we have decided to try opening our marriage. Neither of us has acted on it, and I don't know if I ever will without him, but him allowing himself to be who he is without fear of what I'll think has brought us both closer together in the last few weeks. I know that the time is coming that I'll have to deal with him going on a "date". I truly want him to be who he is, and to be happy. I'm also working towards an event where I could participate with him, to fulfill one of my own fantasies...Be honest with yourself, do not surpress who you are. Be forthright in your communication to your wife. You only get one shot at life, only you can decide what you need to do. I wish you much happiness whatever it is!

nnjbicoupleforplay

Jan 23, 2006, 5:33 PM

We believe that open, honest communication between the both of you will work it out to what you both are looking for. Cheating is never the answer, it maybe the quick fix, but can have devastating results. We are both bi and are open and honest with each other right from the beginning of our relationship. We can only stress it enough that when someone starts a relationship they need to be honest about their sexuality with their partner. Suppression of your true feelings can hurt both partners. Keep an ongoing open dialogue with her and maybe things can change. (hopefully for the better). Therapy may not be a bad idea for the both of you. A trained specialist will see more in depth your situation. We wish you the best in whatever you decide to do.

:male: :female: :bipride:

Have you hugged your bi-friend today??

NomDe

Apr 16, 2006, 8:04 AM

Hi All

I'm posting late here, having just found this forum.

There is such diversity in the experience of bisexuality, isn't there? I've heard people (even bisexuals) say that choosing a male partner or choosing a female partner is really much like choosing to be with a blue-eyed person or a brown-eyed person, and that to want both is unnecessary. And then at the other end of the scale are those who have an all-encompassing need for a man who is a "man" and a woman who is a "woman" in their lives. Choosing between the two is more like choosing which arm to chop off than choosing which eye colour to devote oneself to. Indeed, the whole debate at times seems to trivialise the emotional agony these people live with on a daily basis.

These days we can be fairly certain that most of our sexual orientation is "hard-wired", and we can be 100% certain that repression of sexual orientation is one of the most dangerous and damaging things a human being can do. It's the leading cause of suicide in non-heterosexuals.

When a bisexual who has a real need (not just sexual, but total) for a male and a female partner, finds him/herself in a monogamous marriage, which is all too easy when you've been brought up in a society where bisexuality was invisible, we suffer such pain that it not only feels physical, it IS physical. It's like dying inside, day by day. And yet the pain of leaving a partner we love dearly would be even worse.

Even worse again, for some of us we are genuinely monogamous in our needs, and genuinely duogamous in our needs, simultaneously. And if 3somes or poly relationships are a turnoff? For some of us there is no solution except to try to build some kind of community in order to "take the edge off". Pain is something we live with, without ever "learning to live" with it.

Having lived with this for 5 years now, I am the last person who would ever condemn a bisexual for being driven to "cheat". I can see that for many people this is a life and death, insoluble issue and I have every compassion.

NomDe

ghytifrdnr

Apr 17, 2006, 1:12 AM

:2cents: Please don't read this expecting to find your answer. I offer only observation and opinion.
I have been married to one woman for almost thirty-nine years, and completely agree with the quote about living life forward but understanding it backward. I married at the age of twenty-two and promised monogamy because everyone told me that's how it's done. I never imagined that there were any other alternatives. If I were starting my life today, knowing what I know today, I would NOT consider a monogamous relationship. I think that the idea of loving only one person for all your life expresses a poverty of the human spirit. We are capable of so much more. People say polyamory is difficult to impossible. I think it is only because so many are brain-washed into monogamy. So I'll end by saying that I believe bi-sexuality is not the problem, monogamy is the problem.

NomDe

May 12, 2006, 7:24 AM

I have to disagree and say that I don't think there is anything wrong with monogamy at all. I think it's a great model, and to be preferred because it's simply more adaptive than other configurations. Other models provide less stability to children, and also tend to de-stabilise communities. That's not to say we shouldn't tolerate them -- that would be stupid, because within a community, we also know that overall, diversity is beneficial.

What I was saying is that the evidence seems to suggest that it is not society which produces monogamous or promiscuous people (and everything in between) but genetics. Studies in neurophysiology indicate that people (and animals) tend toward one or the other in a way that is correlated with our neuro-anatomy and neuro-chemistry. Of course environmental influences play a part, but this is secondary to our "hard wiring".

Our sexual preference is also hard wired. So you can probably easily imagine that someone could be bisexual in a way that requires a male and female partner, but also monogamous. These two are obviously mutually exclusive and represent a catch-22 for which there is no answer.

For people who are comfortable with polygamy, there is no such problem as long as their partners are also comfortable with that.

Cheers
Naomi

Sparks

May 12, 2006, 1:34 PM

Maybe I just want some sympathy. =)

Having been in your place, I do understand. I've been married. I also had a female mate for ten years. Never cheated on either one of them (with men or women). Keeping your sexuality a secret is hard. Nevertheless, try and talk with your wife. If you approach her in a warm and loving way, you may get what you want. And that is simply understanding. :2cents:

NomDe

May 12, 2006, 9:13 PM

On this point, looking at stats from studies to date (and remember so far we don't really have stats on "normal" population because of the difficulty of accessing the study group - instead we tend to collect data on those more easily available, and those are typically therapy populations or student populations), it seems that women tend to make space in a marriage for their bisexual partner's sexual identity, but that men in the same position do not.

Something in excess of 80% of women support their bisexual partner in this way, but only about 13% of men. (Figures from the text "Two Lives to Lead - Bisexuality in Men and Women", by Fritz Klein and Tim Wolf, editors of the considerable array of research material presented there.)

So a man's chances of being able to safely come out to his wife, and have her understanding and support, are possibly fairly high. That's not to say there is immediate acceptance of course!

ghytifrdnr

May 21, 2006, 1:38 AM

"Other models provide less stability to children, and also tend to de-stabilise communities."

Right! Monogamy's 50-75% divorce rate is really providing stability.
I think stability is a result of the individuals involved, and not so much a function of the system.

For an interesting alternate view, go to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/18/wpoly18.xml

ackjae01

May 21, 2006, 2:39 AM

...the problem i have is a deep closet in the the south with a perfect straight wife of 25plus yrs who will venture only as far as cam play with us and guy while he strokes...where does one find these real time sexual sane players..

Mrs.F

May 21, 2006, 7:19 AM

Well, here goes.....I never thought I would be writting this..EVER!

After 10 yrs. of marriage I found out by accident that my husband is bisexual and that he had been with men in his past. The day I found out..I was devastated, heartbroken, panic stricken and scared to death that I could never be enough. How could I as a woman fulfill his every need?? I joined this site with him (separately) and have talked to many people, learned alot and grown as a person and in my sexuality too. Things I NEVER would have thought about or tried...I have tried now and plan to try more as I am comfortable with. Flounder (my husband) and I have been going thru this together. He's never once been pushy or demanding. He's mentioned things and given me the chance to think on it, work it out for myself and then try it slowly. I've come to the point that I enjoy it and have found that I think I needed this. I feel I am a much happier person, more alive then I have ever felt. And though we have not done everything yet that he would like to do...I am very open to trying it all as soon as I know I am ready for it. :)

As I wish he would have had enough faith in me to sit down and tell me yrs. ago..I can't blame him for being scared. I understand his fear and I know, (because I know ME) that he felt I would never understand this. But somewhere along the way I grew up and I realized that this does NOT change who he is at all. He's still my husband and actually now, I know he's more special than I thought he was.

So, patience and honesty is the most important things. Talk, talk and talk and understand each other and the feelings you both have. There will always be boundries and you have to know each other's boudries. But in time things will fall into place.

I wish you the best of luck and take care!
Mrs.F :)