Body odor - advice needed

[The Barefoot Contess]

So, DD's post about deodorant reminded me of a problem I have with a friend of mine. Here is the situation.
I have a friend who does not shower regularly, and never uses deodorant or any other kind of product. She smells really bad: her body smells, her clothes smell, her car smells, her office smells, her entire house smells. It is horrible. She believes, and I respect that, that she does not have to abide by those social rules because she likes her body and its smells. For the same reason, she does not shave either (which is a different issue, I know). To make things worse, she has a smell problem, so she is unable to tell if she smells.
So, the reality is that people stay away from her. People usually walk into other people's offices or hang out at other people's places, right? Well, in her case, that is happening less and less frequently. I talked to her about it, and she said that if the smell was horrible she would try to do something about it when she was around people, but that is not quite happening. Besides, it is extremely uncomfortable for me to tell her, "hey, you smell (again)". As I said, the smell is intense, it is not like regular sweat smell that you can tolerate or even like. So, that is the story, and I have to say that I am finding it less and less appealing to hang out with her, because, in all honesty, and I truly love her, she stinks. What would you guys do?
Oh, to make things worse, she lives with two cats and one dog. And fish, but I like the fishes :-)

[Uneedhands]

Put a peg on your nose.

[Not2str8]

Contessa, do you really think your friend's refusal to bathe and conform to social standards is a matter of personal conviction for her ? If so, she has made her choice. She'd rather be alone with her various odors than have human company. In that case, it may be necessary for you to be painfully blunt and stop trying to spare the feelings of someone who doesn't seem to care so much about your's. How is she to know that people around her feel so strongly if no one tells her just how bad it is ?
Of course, you know her and I don't, so trying to diagnose her from afar is dangerous, but the first thing that leaped to my mind is that she may be suffering from depression. Personal hygiene is often the first thing depressed people let slide. Have you seen any other behaviors that might indicate depression ? Maybe she's already been diagnosed and treated as depressive, and like so many, no longer feels the need to take her meds.
In either case, it sounds like talking to her more forcefully than you have so far, is going to be necessary. And please don't feel bad about it...she's pretty much forcing your hand, at this point.

[The Barefoot Contess]

Of course, you know her and I don't, so trying to diagnose her from afar is dangerous, but the first thing that leaped to my mind is that she may be suffering from depression. Personal hygiene is often the first thing depressed people let slide. Have you seen any other behaviors that might indicate depression ? Maybe she's already been diagnosed and treated as depressive, and like so many, no longer feels the need to take her meds.


Thank you for bringing this up, because you are right on. She does have depression, and she is on medication, and as far as I know, she is taking it. So, this makes things more complicated: if her lack of hygiene is a consequence of her depression, is she "to blame"? I honestly think she would behave the same way if she were not depressed. She is VERY critical of society in general and social rules or codes of conduct in particular. She lived in a commune for a while and is planning on returning sometime. While I admire her commitment and her desire to actually do what she preaches, sometimes it seems to me that she rejects things just because they are agreed upon by the majority, without really exploring why that agreement was made or if it might be beneficial.

[shameless agitator]

I would just leave a bottle of Mitchum at her house or office. That should pretty well convey the message. If she chooses to ignore it, well that's her choice.

[TaylorMade]

I would just leave a bottle of Mitchum at her house or office. That should pretty well convey the message. If she chooses to ignore it, well that's her choice.

I don't always agree with you, SA. . .but, Contess. . . what he suggested is all you can do.

*Taylor*

[HighEnergy]

Sounds like you need to add a bottle of Tide and come cleaning supplies for the house to the deordorant.

Some folks do take meds or suppliments that make them smell odd. That odorless garlic stuff is NOT odorless IMHO. But it sounds more like your friend doesn't realize she smells and is too busy complaining about society to care. The other problem is if you are the only person who tells her, well then that makes you the only bad guy and that's not a good place to be.

[cockNballs]

If she is one the the "earthy crunchies" as I call them....telling them they smell will do nothing but establish you as one of the "establishment". I have friends who don't wear deoderant because they believe it will lead to lymphatic cancer.
BUT, they do Bathe daily.

Ask her why she doesn't bathe daily. You don't have to be dirty to go against social norms.

I have a few friends who are ripe...I don't spend a lot of time at their house.
I also don't fuck them either.

IF that is how she wants to be, there is nothing you can do about it.

Just let her learn her own way.

[shameless agitator]

I don't always agree with you, SA

*Taylor*You don't??? You mean you don't think I'm infallible? :( I'm bummed now

[gfofbiguy]

You don't??? You mean you don't think I'm infallible? :( I'm bummed now

I almost ALWAYS agree with ya, SA.....kinda scary....well, not scary for me, but the people that are around me LOL;):cool:

[gfofbiguy]

I would just leave a bottle of Mitchum at her house or office. That should pretty well convey the message. If she chooses to ignore it, well that's her choice.

And I definitely agree with this advice...Plus, if one is worried about being "the bad guy", one can leave this anonymously - especially in a work/office setting.

[Sapphrodite]

I would greatly appreciate in advance if the experiences I'm about to share arent subject to harsh criticism, as I have been working very hard on overcoming my own depression. It's hard enough to deal with the social stigma, I would really be crushed if I was made an outcast here too. Having recently suffered from a bout with mid-range depression, I feel safe enough in this forum to share these pesonal experiences. I'm on prescription meds and on the mend, but depression is always an uphill battle to overcome.

If your friend was this way before the depression, then it's a safe bet that the depression is not making matters better either: it could be amplifying anti-social behaviours and alternate rationale that she normally exhibits. I am an extremely hygienic and clean-cut gal, but in my darkest depressed days, I could go for 3-4 days in my pj's and not bathe, etc. I simply did not have the motivation to move from the house, or even from the couch some days. I felt worthless, useless and just not worth the effort: it's a total mindf*ck when you are depressed and it's a common thing to be anti-social, anti-conformist, be it passively or with an extremely defensive logic.

My suggestion is that you invite her out to things she likes doing: dinner, a club, movies, etc. and tell her to have a shower and get ready. Get a bit dressed up yourself and show up early (or even the night before) to help her pick out clothes, so she can wash them if she needs to. Then if you leave a stick of Secret in her room unannounced, the gesture wont seem so harsh either.

Offer to go over for a dinner visit but that you're bringing your laundry, and encourage her to 'toss is a load' too, or help with the dishes - it's a lot more about motivation and routine. If she resists, dont be afraid to remind her about the fun times she had in the past and that you miss the fun her, that you're willing to be patient but that you're going to keep gently pushing her back towards the friend you miss. This will likely end up in some waterworks, but it's a much more effective way to deal with someone with depression, as most often they feel lost and alone, unsure if anyone is truly understanding or supportive of their affliction.

The positive reinforcement is less likely to alienate her and over time will make her feel like herself again. Thank gawd my friends dragged me out of the house, even if it was for coffee!!! Once she gets in the habit of a regular routine, she'll start cleaning up her act.

Even if she is the granola-crunchie, tree-hugger type, you can still appeal to her girlie side by picking her up a care basket of all natural baking soda toothpaste (Tom's of Maine is really good), natural Crystal deodorant that uses no chemicals, and earth-friendly phosphate free detergent for her clothes. If it's mixed in with some all-natural cookies, herbal tea etc, it would make a lovely gift basket that could offer a seguay into her looking towards 'the establishment' in a new light.

Even if she is planning on returning to a communal lifestyle, she currently works in an office setting and although she cant be 'fired' for smelling, she could continue to be ridiculed at work because of it. If she starts up a defensive conversation, say that although no one will make her bathe, she's only further alienating herself from potential friendships and networking in the here-and-now. She can find positive ways of expressing her holistic ideals which will not only not offend others, but may actually positively influence others into trying more natural solutions. I mean who doesnt like organic foods and chemical-free cleaners.

If all of that doesnt work, you may want to subject her to a Slob Intervention, where you dont spend time with her until she cleans up her act... It's not unrealistic to encourage her to choose between her current life and the socially acceptable cleanliness that goes with it, or make the decision to head back to the communes where she can be as 'ripe' as she likes around people who share the same philosophy. But remind her that the two lifestyles arent compatible and although you want to be her friend, you dont want to have to choose to spend time around her if you personally find it offensive of embarssing in public - that she's invading Your Right not to be around smelly people if you dont want to. Stand behind the fact that you want to remain supportive but you dont want to have to choose between your friendship and her embarssing hygiene issues. Making her realize that her choices affect other people may just be the kick-in-the-ass she needs to get back to reality.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you want to chat in more depth.
~Sapphy~

[TaylorMade]

You don't??? You mean you don't think I'm infallible? :( I'm bummed now

Yeah, some days you're the pigeon. . .other days, the statue. :tongue:

*Taylor*

[The Barefoot Contess]

I would greatly appreciate in advance if the experiences I'm about to share arent subject to harsh criticism, as I have been working very hard on overcoming my own depression. It's hard enough to deal with the social stigma, I would really be crushed if I was made an outcast here too. Having recently suffered from a bout with mid-range depression, I feel safe enough in this forum to share these pesonal experiences. I'm on prescription meds and on the mend, but depression is always an uphill battle to overcome.

If your friend was this way before the depression, then it's a safe bet that the depression is not making matters better either: it could be amplifying anti-social behaviours and alternate rationale that she normally exhibits. I am an extremely hygienic and clean-cut gal, but in my darkest depressed days, I could go for 3-4 days in my pj's and not bathe, etc. I simply did not have the motivation to move from the house, or even from the couch some days. I felt worthless, useless and just not worth the effort: it's a total mindf*ck when you are depressed and it's a common thing to be anti-social, anti-conformist, be it passively or with an extremely defensive logic.

My suggestion is that you invite her out to things she likes doing: dinner, a club, movies, etc. and tell her to have a shower and get ready. Get a bit dressed up yourself and show up early (or even the night before) to help her pick out clothes, so she can wash them if she needs to. Then if you leave a stick of Secret in her room unannounced, the gesture wont seem so harsh either.

Offer to go over for a dinner visit but that you're bringing your laundry, and encourage her to 'toss is a load' too, or help with the dishes - it's a lot more about motivation and routine. If she resists, dont be afraid to remind her about the fun times she had in the past and that you miss the fun her, that you're willing to be patient but that you're going to keep gently pushing her back towards the friend you miss. This will likely end up in some waterworks, but it's a much more effective way to deal with someone with depression, as most often they feel lost and alone, unsure if anyone is truly understanding or supportive of their affliction.

The positive reinforcement is less likely to alienate her and over time will make her feel like herself again. Thank gawd my friends dragged me out of the house, even if it was for coffee!!! Once she gets in the habit of a regular routine, she'll start cleaning up her act.

Even if she is the granola-crunchie, tree-hugger type, you can still appeal to her girlie side by picking her up a care basket of all natural baking soda toothpaste (Tom's of Maine is really good), natural Crystal deodorant that uses no chemicals, and earth-friendly phosphate free detergent for her clothes. If it's mixed in with some all-natural cookies, herbal tea etc, it would make a lovely gift basket that could offer a seguay into her looking towards 'the establishment' in a new light.

Even if she is planning on returning to a communal lifestyle, she currently works in an office setting and although she cant be 'fired' for smelling, she could continue to be ridiculed at work because of it. If she starts up a defensive conversation, say that although no one will make her bathe, she's only further alienating herself from potential friendships and networking in the here-and-now. She can find positive ways of expressing her holistic ideals which will not only not offend others, but may actually positively influence others into trying more natural solutions. I mean who doesnt like organic foods and chemical-free cleaners.

If all of that doesnt work, you may want to subject her to a Slob Intervention, where you dont spend time with her until she cleans up her act... It's not unrealistic to encourage her to choose between her current life and the socially acceptable cleanliness that goes with it, or make the decision to head back to the communes where she can be as 'ripe' as she likes around people who share the same philosophy. But remind her that the two lifestyles arent compatible and although you want to be her friend, you dont want to have to choose to spend time around her if you personally find it offensive of embarssing in public - that she's invading Your Right not to be around smelly people if you dont want to. Stand behind the fact that you want to remain supportive but you dont want to have to choose between your friendship and her embarssing hygiene issues. Making her realize that her choices affect other people may just be the kick-in-the-ass she needs to get back to reality.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you want to chat in more depth.
~Sapphy~

Thank you so much for your advice!

[DiamondDog]

So what did you wind up doing?