The "war" on terror-After the fighting is over

[proseros]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080113/ap_on_re_us/killings_after_combat

What are we doing to ourselves? What has happened to us?

[GreenEyedLady(GEL)]

That truly is astonishing. Those of us never having been subjected to what its like being on the front line will probably never understand how it changes a person when you get the " ok " to kill.

My father is a Vietnam Vet. I remember as a child watching my father storm out of the bedroom, then looking at us kids while we were watching cartoons, its a vision I'll never forget because my father , who was sleepwalking thought he was back in the war. The look on his face, its just something I will never forget. My mother on several occassions has woken up being strangled as my father was again dreaming and had my mother in a choke hold. He also got my brother out of bed, wrapping him up in a his blanket tossing him in a corner. Now my father has never spoken to us about what he went thru, with the exception of my mother, who also refuses to discuss it, but I am sure my father has killed many people. I can't imagine how it must feel or how it changes you. Anyhow thats my 2 :2cents:. Thanks for the post, hopefully the government will quit shrugging their shoulders when it comes to this issue. These veterns need so much more help then they are recieving when they come home to us.

[scubaman]

With all due respect to you proseros, I don't see why people on the Bisexual site wants to keep posting political threads here. Albeit, we all have the freedom to say what we honestly feel, however, I personally feel that just maybe threads of this nature should be left for another venue. :2cents:

[GreenEyedLady(GEL)]

With all do respect Scubaman , maybe you should just skip over certain posts if you don't find them appealing. You don't speak for anyone but yourself.

[scubaman]

GEL, I did speak for myself and not for everyone, hence why I said, "I personally feel........" Just for the record, I am retired military and support our troops and upon return from the sandbox, some of them need help in adjusting back to this life. This has been identified and programs are not in place to help those military members. Have a great day!

[GreenEyedLady(GEL)]

Well, as I appreciate your opinion , that poster felt it was a good idea that he bring awareness to a very important subject. Myself I was unaware that a percentage of our troops were coming home, screwed up in the head and drowning their children. We have a number of military wives here, I think its important that we not ignore these issues. The best part of this site are the varied topics. Personally I get tired of seeing threads about eating cum,as it makes my stomach ill, but I don't go to the poster and tell them. I just pretend I didn't notice :) I hope you have a great day as well.

[proseros]

And again why I say FORUMS FORUMS FORUMS. That way- and no offense to you scubaman -those who are interested in a topic can focus on that topic, and these kinds of digressions don't have to exist-If even for technical reasons,Bandwidth: This kind of off-subject quibbling can go on forever.

Now even I am at fault of digressing from the topic I posted.

I may as well have suffixed to the Subject Title: ": Feel free to go on if you'd like!"...

[proseros]

And as on the subject at hand, I don't mean to be argumentative; but I did ask a question about what is happening to US. This is far more than a political issue-it is a people issue. Politicians don't kill each other, and I did not raise this thread to debate the politics of the issue more than the humanity of it-and if anyone is worried that I might take a stance that is inflammatory or "un-patriotic", no, I am not. If that were the case, trust me, I wouldn't care one way or another-MY politics are MY business and in that respect scubaman you are absolutely right, and your assertion is wisely professional, which stands to reason nothing related to my politics enters into the picture, and if you read-or have read-the article, will see is not even a focus of politics.

[scubaman]

proseros, yes I read the article prior to reading your post. I am sorry if it did seem as though I was attacking you, that was not the intent. I have seen threads such as these really get out of hand in the forum attacking from different angles, I did not want to see this one attacked because it directly involves those military members and their families. It is a shame this is happening and I wonder if enough research is performed, could the same be said about WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and the other conflicts we have been involved in. Or, like the General iluded to, is this statistic brought to light because of the political situation. Although very bad, all military members are being screened upon their out processing from the theater they are operating in. Hopefully for the member and thier families this will make a difference!

Again, sorry for any ill perception on my first response!

[Doggie_Wood]

All three of you, Proceros, Scuby & GEL, have valid points.
As a veteran of the Vietnam era, I too have seen and had to deel with PTSD related issues. I am sure that there are members on this site who have been to The Nam and to the sand box. I am one of the lucky ones in that I have never had to take a life, although I have been just 1/4" away (distance of a trigger pull). This type of situation can and in most cases does have a direct impact and/or alteration of the human psychi in certain areas and to varying degrees. Of course the original mental stability of the individual is paramount as to exactly how and to what extint one is affected.
I am totaly agreed that the US government does need to address the issues at hand of the Vets returning from combat and International Policing (UN Peace Keepers) duties. But the government is like a very large eliphant in that it moves very slowly and is extremly heavy with debt and programs now. So how do we, as the people of that government, pay for these much needed services along with everything else we are already paying for? The current Vet care, the legal and illegal imigrationists, health care, national sovrienty, and .... and .... need I go on? The money for all of these things has to come from someplace. The US taxpayers pockets. And yet the congresspeeps and senators of the US just keep voting themselves higher and higher salaries. And yet even discussions of thiese facts lead to political shades.

This of course will open other opinions and comments and threads.

Everyone on this site is free to express his/her views, opinions, comments and open threads with whatever their particular thought in mind at that moment is.

Yes, agreed, that additional layers to have forums would be nice, instead of just one "melting pot". Only select individuals on this site can make that a reality, I am not one of them.

We have to deal with what we have, which is by the way, the best bi-sexual site on the net in the english speaking world.

Just my :2cents:

:doggie:

[proseros]

Believe me, no harm done-I understood clearly what you were getting at. This could become quite a loaded issue with a wide range of contention (a kinder gentler "being pissed off" for one reason or other)-which is what I too hope to avoid by avoiding politics;It doesn't matter what "war" we are talking about except that we are losing it here regardless of any progress of victory on the horizon, hence the question "What are we doing to ourselves? What has happened to us?".

What a Classic Odessy things seem to have become!

Two years ago I did a presentation on DUM (Depleted Uranium Munitions) and whether or not we are prapared to deal with the return of thousands of soldiers irreparably poisoned by Uranium 238-as well as cross and congenital contamination of entire families of this tank killing refusive substance, which when burned is as good as an exploded steam pipe fitted with asbestos.

Perhaps for all of human affect, nations have gotten better at waging war in an expedient manner; and history has proven that even the prospect of thermonuclear war does not erase any glimmer of survivability of the human species-That is however, only with careful assessment of the expectation of resolving any further need for that sort of thing to begin with.

[Doggie_Wood]

..........It doesn't matter what "war" we are talking about except that we are losing it here regardless of any progress of victory on the horizon, hence the question

{Hear the question}
"What are we doing to ourselves? What has happened to us?".
{
:us [as in the people of civilized society]}


What a Classic Odessy things seem to have become!

Two years ago I did a presentation on DUM (Depleted Uranium Munitions) and whether or not we are prapared to deal with the return of thousands of soldiers irreparably poisoned by Uranium 238-as well as cross and congenital contamination of entire families of this tank killing refusive substance, which when burned is as good as an exploded steam pipe fitted with asbestos.

Perhaps for all of human affect, nations have gotten better at waging war in an expedient manner; and history has proven that even the prospect of thermonuclear war does not erase any glimmer of survivability of the human species-That is however, only with careful assessment of the expectation of resolving any further need for that sort of thing to begin with.

I feel that I have a grasp on where you are attemping to resonate.
Yes indeed it does open the perverbial 'Pandora's Box' of questions and yet to be answered let alone explained questions. And to what extent is yet to be determined but revolves around one key issue - MONEY.
As to the original question queried by yourself, in two parts;
1 - We are slowly distroying ourselves - we are brutally and barbaricly destroying ourselves even with our socalled modern technocrasy.
2 - We are becoming what our forefathers thrived to keep us from becoming.

We are, as a society, as a people, dare I say, as a world - ever so slowly causing our own implosion upon ourselves. And yet when the center of all things becomes overflowing with what we put into it, the finalle of explosion and the rebirth of something else. Yin-Yang - To every begining there is an end and to every ending there is a begining of something new.

:doggie:

[the mage]

WOW an intense subject..
Well first, please do be careful of the sensationalist way the numbers are presented in the papers. There is historically an issue with damaged man coming home from war. Each successive war has brought home drug issues as well.
Unfortunately war is waged for profit with a side of religion thrown in (the commies were originally hated for being "Godless" not their economy)and there is no profit in looking after vets when its over. That job gets foisted off on the social service agencies. Also historically underfunded.
It has been worsened this time by the overall worsened economy caused by the war, and the environmental change coming and the "global economy" (corp speak for we're everywhere!".) Only the hyper wealthy are getting richer.. as usual. The victims of war, are left to the families to deal with on poverty level pensions if any thing at all.

War itself is man made society's display of its attempt to control the destiny of other men. The new reality of instant communication with visuals has unearthed a lot of the lies previous government got away with. That has changed war. Imagine America, what would be the reaction today to a REAL battle of war? One like in WW2 in which 10,000 men die in a single day , not 6... The automation that surround war has made it a video game to the public, but not to the men in the blown up vehicles, nor the villagers torn apart daily either. The smaller number of victims allows the media to call it like a friggin hockey game at home. It should not be allowed to be this way.

As to our future any one saying they have an answer is a fool.
The environment remains the biggest unallowed for unknown.
Imagine northern Canada. 1 million square miles of permanently frozen ground, I'm talking millions of year frozen, the permafrost, is about to become the biggest swamp ever, as it melts. The unknown bacteria.....
The northern passage was this summer, for the first time ever, totally open and ice free. that has an exponential effect...

We do not know how, but nature will find its balance, and we will be tossed off this rock in huge numbers if not completely.

[12voltman59]

I don't think we should put some sort of self-censorship in regards to politically or socially themed posts--that is part of the world and one of the good things about this site--it is not just a sex site but an overall community site.

I know that with the degree of polarization we have in regards to things political that does make it problematic to discuss politics in a civilized manner--but to me--this notion is one fosterd and fed by some of those in power--a certain element does not want "the average Joe or Jane" to feel that things political have nothing to do with them--that way--they can do what they will---

It seems to me that discussion of things political should be something we do here on a regular basis and not shy from it----here in the states--what policies and such that come from out of the state capitals and from Washington do bear directly on the way we live our lives and most of us I would say--do agree with the notion irrespective of our political/ideological perspectives, believe that government should not interfere in how we live our sexual lives---but there are those who would make our activites in relation to sexual behavior illegal.

As far as this war is concerned----it directly and indirectly does affect us whether we agree with it or not and it also affects us whether we are from America, Canada, the UK or nearly anyplace else thanks to the ripples a war puts out---especially in a place as volatile as the mideast.

To soldiers coming back from war and not being well adjusted--that is something as old a war itself--kind of hard to switch off that button that opened one to accepting being a killer once it has been turned on---something being part of a war requires to happen.

I had watched a report recently about returning guard troops who had been police in civilian life--many of them--who never had been accused of using excessive force on criminal suspects in the past have started to face such complaints and charges---one officer they interviewed in the story said he tried to control himself in the case that got him in trouble, but he started handling his American criminal suspects as he and his fellow troops did with suspects in Iraq---and he admitted that this was not good.

We are going to have such problems with returning troops--we always have --but hopefully they will be providing funding for the VA to help returning troops deal with readjusting to life after war.

[shameless agitator]

I agree that this is something which affects all of us, regardless of our thoughts on the war itself. Actually, one of the reasons I've been protesting this invasion since before it even started is that I knew how the soldiers were going to get screwed. I, and those who agree with me will continue doing everything we can to end this travesty so that we can limit how many people this happens too, but how do we help those who have already been traumatized? Obviously increased funding for the VA is a good place to start. Unfortunately, there's a stigma attached to a soldier getting psychiatric help & military shrinks can actually violate confidentiality and fuck somebody's career. My thought would be mandatory counseling for all returning vets with a therapist outside of military channels & paid for by the DOD. By making it mandatory, you avoid the associated stigma & by using shrinks in private practice you assure the confidentiality of the patient allowing him or her to be comfortable opening up.