recanting don't ask, don't tell???

[wanderingrichard]

just got this in off my mail.. i think thye're full of it and it'll never happen but, hey, who knows??

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,157385,00.html?ESRC=army.nl

[pasco_lol_cpl]

It will happen, and probably sooner, rather than later, depending on your view of history. Id say that there is a 50 / 50 chance that it will happen within the next decade and after that, as a younger generation rises in the military ranks and the political ones as well, then the chances of this being overturned grows progressively stronger.

[The Barefoot Contess]

Well, it won't happen with the republicans in office, that is for sure. In the youtube/cnn debate, the "arguments" (for lack of a better term) they offered were pathetic. My favorite was: "the majority of the people in the military are conservative, so it is not convenient to make them live in such close quarters with gays". I suppose that it then follows that liberals in general should also not be allowed in the military, right?

On a different note. Although I don't like "Don't ask don't tell", and would love to see the day when homosexuals/bisexuals can be open about their sexuality and be in the military, I believe that at the time when "Dont..." was passed, it was a step forward, and it was probably all that could be done and passed and that time.

[pasco_lol_cpl]

Dont hang your hopes up on the democrats coming to power as being the saviors of this unfortunate situation. For now they (Especially Hillary Clinton) will pander to the right on this issue.

[The Barefoot Contess]

Of course not. I trust the democrats almost as much as the republicans. These past years, with a democrat congress, have been a big letdown. Dems have managed to convince me that there is really little difference between reps and dems. That lack of alternative is, in my opinion, a serious threat to democracy.

[darkeyes]

Of course not. I trust the democrats almost as much as the republicans. These past years, with a democrat congress, have been a big letdown. Dems have managed to convince me that there is really little difference between reps and dems. That lack of alternative is, in my opinion, a serious threat to democracy.

*nods appreciatively in agreement an blows kissie*

[the mage]

Of course not. I trust the democrats almost as much as the republicans. These past years, with a democrat congress, have been a big letdown. Dems have managed to convince me that there is really little difference between reps and dems. That lack of alternative is, in my opinion, a serious threat to democracy.


...................Public apathy is a far greater threat.
....................Get involved in politics, get informed on issues.

[The Barefoot Contess]

*nods appreciatively in agreement an blows kissie*

:kiss:

[The Barefoot Contess]

...................Public apathy is a far greater threat.
....................Get involved in politics, get informed on issues.

Absolutely. I do my best to stay active and stand for what I think is right. I might have posted elsewhere that the success of right-wing conservatives is having convinced people that one person's effort is not going to make a difference. I think that every little thing we do to improve society is a step forward, and whether or not it matters in “the grand scheme of things” (whatever that means) or becomes part of History (whatever that means) is of little significance.

[shameless agitator]

This will happen, but I think it will be a while. We could probably get it through congress now, but of course Shrub would veto it & there's no way we'd have the margin to over ride the veto. I'm not sure Clinton would be much better, and unfortunately I'm afraid she's going to be our candidate.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Now this has Always pissed me off!
What the hell difference does it make if a person is Gay or Lesbian in the military?? I've known and worked with many Military personell who were gay and bisexual, and they hated having to hide the fact that they were Bi, or same sex oriented. Frankly, I feel that it's No Body's business What a person's sexual preference is as long as they can do their job in an efficent manner. What Anyone does off the clock so to speak, is Their business, not some Govt offical's! A persons sex life is Theirs, and shouldnt be under scrutiny from Anyone. Their sexual desires shouldnt have any bearing on the ability to do their job, anyway.
Shutting up before I drag out the soap box. (Hurts the knees too much to get on, or off of it) lol
Cat.

[liquidcandycain]

hmmmmm lol weeelllllll your all kinda off key here im in the military active for 9 years (im going to say this just describing peoples actions dont nail me to a wall) used to be dressing in girls clothes talking with a lisp being to femanan holding hands or just giving the impression you are gay or bi was enough to get you booted these are the things that made people come to the speculation you were not hetrosexual it then went to the chain of command they asked you if you were if you said yes it was kinda up to you to prove it you also got to go see the mental health people if you could prove one way or the other you were discharged if memory serves correct thats how jimi hendrix got kicked out if you couldnt you could have been punished by the ucmj articals

as for the reasons why gay's and bi sexuals coulnt serve that has to go back to our fucked up sexuality morals as children instilled from the time our feet hit the floor boys didnt kiss boys and girls didnt kiss girls we can thank several factors for this in our scociety

just recently they have changed the rules usted to be there was a solid dont ask dont tell policy for military however you could use any slanf deragative you liked and well if you said anything about it you were presumed homosexual they have changed the rules to say dont tell and made using such slang allmost sexual herrasment and degrading to the soldiers personality and mental state

you cant be persucuted for speaking a certin way holding hands or well acting gay now aside from having sex with someone of the same sex and getting caught theres not alot you can do about it wich brings us to another place say i see a hot person and i let them know im interested they say no i say ok 2 days later i walk up and put my hand on there shoulder guess what that is sexual harassment and they get you that way so ether way they havnt made much progress

when i first joined i really cared if i was serving with someone that was gay why you ask i could write a book but i was wrong someones gender pref really dosnt have anything to do whith there ability to do there job one of the best soldiers i have know was allso one of the most out lesbians i have known but she kept her job her job and if you didnt like it that was your problem she also knew when she was over her head ie a 110 pound woman cant lift 300 pounds at a dead lift she wasnt afraid to ask for help after meeting more gay and lesbian people in the military i was shown how wrong i was and im glad i had a chance to meet the people and them show me i was wrong annnywho

it has changed but for who who knows

this is what i have exsperianced so please keep an open mind when you felay the flesh from my bones here but i have bi soldiers and as a leader its my job to know there rights wheter i agree or not rank has no room for singlemindness and what they do in private as long as no one gets in jail or hurt or dead is none of my beeswax

btw this is from the ground not from some officers desk that could give 2 shits when it really matters and they are just looking for a promotion and just by saying that could get me in a world of shit it is still way fucking illegal to bad mouth officers but they just see the memo side of things and not throught the eyes of those who are making it happen if you are in the military you know im speaking of those who make the rules not live them im not talking about the lowly butterbar here
ok ill get off my :soapbox: but this is what i have seen and been through so i say again be gental lol

[FalconAngel]

I was in the Army from 78-84 and the policies have definitely been improving from what they were when I was in, which was during the later years of the Cold War.

The argument then, against anything but straights in the military, was "Security Risk". That was because the fear was that if it were found out by the "reds" then they would use it as blackmail to get you to give them classified information. They would threaten to tell your superiors if you didn't cooperate.

The flaw in the argument was that if you have to keep it secret, then yes, it can be a security risk, but if it isn't a secret, then you have removed the security risk.

Fact of the matter is, that "Don't ask. Don't tell" is a crock of horse shit. It is the same thing that we were doing before that became "policy". Either way, you get booted out if you tell. The only difference is the type of discharge you get if you do tell.

[12voltman59]

The fact is Richard--the top generals have finally realized--there are lots of gay/bi folks who have over the years, been doing good service to the military and that each time they get rid of experienced people both officer and non-com--the military loses out that experience and the time and money they have invested in that person.

With what this war has done to the military--especially the Army-is to be gutting those midlevel officer ranks--around the Army rank of Captain---these people have enough experience to be valuable in the civilian world and look at all of the extended deployments---its disruptions to their lives and such---it is said that these people are leaving the military at a rate not seen since towards the end of Vietnam and it took the Army nearly two decades to recover from that time----they are going to find--those guys who are Captains now-- generally go on to be majors and generals---there will be a shortage of them coming in a few years as they would have advanced in their careers-----just one more unintended consequences of this war.

They are also starting to see a similar bail out in the senior non-com ranks---like the senior sergeants---and those are the folks who really make the Army go.

They have gotten rid of lots of talented people thanks to "don't ask, don't tell" the military has suffered.

It always got me--if the military could integrate blacks successfully and later add women to all roles now that women have seen plenty of combat in this war--they sure as hell could allow GLBT people in the service.

All it takes with the military is the will to accept gays---when the President in his or her commander in chief role tells the top brass: "We will have gays in the military and they will be accepted" The Generals and Admirals salute and say "yes sir/maam" then the go out and let the troops know---"gays are accepted in the service.'

Sure--there will be some bumps, a few steps forward a few steps back--but in ten years--everyone willl say---"that was not bad at all---what was the big deal about it????"

If we get a Democratic president after next year---I bet that before that person's time is up in office---the policy will be to integrate gays into the US military.

[jamiehue]

[QUOTE=The Barefoot Contess;87088]Absolutely. I do my best to stay active and stand for what I think is right. I might have posted elsewhere that the success of right-wing conservatives is having convinced people that one person's effort is not going to make a difference. I think that every little thing we do to improve society is a step forward, and whether or not it matters in “the grand scheme of things” (whatever that means) or becomes part of History (whatever that means) is of little significance.[/QUOTETheere is a diffrence between dems and republicans invite huckeebee and dennis over for dinner. dam one can tell by just looking at at them what party the members belong to look at bush well....get involved or ur gonna get it again. Polys for rommknee.

[Falke]

Hello all!

I'll keep this simple... Genders and sexual preferences should never matter. The fact is, good people are willing to fight for thier country, why should anyone stop them? Consitering the person covering your back's sexuality is completely unimportant in a firefight! I still find it funny that some consiter gays inferior for military service when one at one time conquored the known world of his time... *Alexander the Great*