Why don’t they believe?

[Toad82]

I attend a group meeting for GLBT people to get to know one another. Tonight at the end as I was walking out of the room one of the members I talk to a lot said I am not bi and just hiding, as he did for five years before he came out as gay. An hour later I am still pissed off. Why don’t people believe in bisexuality? In the past on this site I have also been e-mailed telling me I am gay and shouldn’t be on the site.

I have been told in the past by straight people, I am too straight acting to be bi. I have been told by bi people, that because I prefer men I am gay and now it seems the majority of the people I have met in the meetings, who are all out as gay or lesbian believe I am gay and hiding. I admit I prefer men, so why wouldn’t I just come out as gay if I was? So there it is, why don’t people believe in bisexuality and why wouldn’t someone who admits they prefer men not just come out as gay if they were? Thanks for any answers.

RJ:lokai:

[Not2str8]

I think it's just our cross to bear. I've run into the same thing at Gay Men's Groups. They can't see the irony that they are practicing the same kind of prejudice that they themselves have decried. They can't step outside themselves, and realize that a man can thoroughly enjoy being with men AND women. They are locked into their own perspective and perception. I've pointed this out to a few disbelievers. The more enlightened ones give it some thought, while most continue believing that we are "too chicken" to admit being gay. Although sometimes this conundrum makes me feel like I'm not part of either world, for the most part, I console myself with the knowledge that I am who and what I am, and I owe NO ONE an explanation. :three:

[Germanicus]

Like "Not2str8", I would argue that comments like this reveal more about the person who says this than it does about you. Nonetheless, for some people bisexuality really is a transitional phase from one end of the Kinsey scale to another on a more or less permanent basis. Though having said that, I was recently chatting to a lesbian at a LGBT book group I attend and she said that no-one's sexuality was 100% fixed.

This summer when I was in Berlin I met a gay Irish man who, after I told him I am Bi, said he was Bi before he came out as gay. I asked him what he understood by this and he said that he knew he was gay but because he lived in catholic south west Ireland he "hid" for a few years behind girlfriends and a lot of his gay friends were married with children. It could well be argued that such people are not Bi (as we on this site might understand the term), but are really gay men living heterosexual lives, and that Toad82's friend fell into the same category at some point in his life. Perhaps the hostility of Toad82's friend towards bisexuals is perhaps directed towards himself and the "compromise" he had to make for a few years before coming out as gay.

[someotherguy]

It is tragic that bisexuals are denied their believability, but I think it stems from having such a goofy looking flag with triangles. By rights they should be biangles. No wonder people get confused.

[scubaman]

Great discussion! I liked what Germanicus stated, "It could well be argued that such people are not Bi (as we on this site might understand the term), but are really gay men living heterosexual lives, and that Toad82's friend fell into the same category at some point in his life. Perhaps the hostility of Toad82's friend towards bisexuals is perhaps directed towards himself and the "compromise" he had to make for a few years before coming out as gay."

I have read posts in the past here regarding the same or simular discussion and have given the subject a great deal of though. For me personally, I have tried to visualize myself as gay, but the thought of not being sexually and emotionally involved with my wife did not set too well. I still enjoy being with both genders equally. Maybe Germanicus has hit the nail on the head! (?)

[Germanicus]

Great discussion! I liked what Germanicus stated, "It could well be argued that such people are not Bi (as we on this site might understand the term), but are really gay men living heterosexual lives, and that Toad82's friend fell into the same category at some point in his life. Perhaps the hostility of Toad82's friend towards bisexuals is perhaps directed towards himself and the "compromise" he had to make for a few years before coming out as gay."

I have read posts in the past here regarding the same or simular discussion and have given the subject a great deal of though. For me personally, I have tried to visualize myself as gay, but the thought of not being sexually and emotionally involved with my wife did not set too well. I still enjoy being with both genders equally. Maybe Germanicus has hit the nail on the head! (?)

Ta very much. One does one's best - hammer or no hammer

[Bethyboop]

All I ask is for you here to not fall into that same trap (and for the vast majority of the people I've talked to, or seen post on here, this would not happen), not all lesbians or gay men think that bisexuality does not exist.

[Royshan]

was having this conversation last night avec my aunt, who's a lesbian. Her girlfriend was alright with me being bisexual, but my aunt's first words were along the lines of 'greedy cow'... though a bit more polite.
I just replied that I was having the best of both worlds...

Then she told me I wasn't 'in' the group yet. Which drove me insane. She's a bit better this morning, and admitted she was slightly tipsy when making those remarks....

But it does just show you that everyone discriminates. Though they wouldn't dare admit it...

[darkeyes]

Agreed Bethy, prob is within the lessie an gay communities, is that there is no real debate within.. it all seems to be the Bi community which is crying out for their acceptance and recognition... tho most of em don seem to concerned wen they gettin inta our knickers..

[Toad82]

All I ask is for you here to not fall into that same trap (and for the vast majority of the people I've talked to, or seen post on here, this would not happen), not all lesbians or gay men think that bisexuality does not exist.

All of the ones I keep meeting seem to believe it, although I am sure there are some out there that don't.



Thanks for the answers so far, but one more thing. It has been almost eight hours since it happened and I am still pissed. Am I being petty or should I be?:confused:


RJ:lokai:

[the mage]

I attend a group meeting for GLBT people to get to know one another. Tonight at the end as I was walking out of the room one of the members I talk to a lot said I am not bi and just hiding, as he did for five years before he came out as gay. An hour later I am still pissed off. Why don’t people believe in bisexuality? In the past on this site I have also been e-mailed telling me I am gay and shouldn’t be on the site.

I have been told in the past by straight people, I am too straight acting to be bi. I have been told by bi people, that because I prefer men I am gay and now it seems the majority of the people I have met in the meetings, who are all out as gay or lesbian believe I am gay and hiding. I admit I prefer men, so why wouldn’t I just come out as gay if I was? So there it is, why don’t people believe in bisexuality and why wouldn’t someone who admits they prefer men not just come out as gay if they were? Thanks for any answers.

RJ:lokai:

.........................because people are generally foolish and with that they insist that you be just like them, because if you're not they cannot put you in the neat little peg holes that they assign to all familiar and friendly things.

[HighEnergy]

My former partner was very angry when our bear couple friends insisted that he couldn't be in a relationship with me because he wasn't really bi, but gay. He ranted and raved for hours on end about getting just as much discrimination from gay folks as straight, until I told him that they thought that I just hadn't met the right woman yet. Some folks just can't see how you could be any different than they are, especially when they like you.

[DiamondDog]

Because they're idiots who think that they know who you are better than you yourself do.

I had a nasty old troll on this site who is into barebacking and being fisted without a latex glove tell me how I'm really a cocksucking faggot and he could tell all of this by reading my profile on here.

Just ignore the idiots and don't let them make you angry.

Anyway, does it matter if a bigot doesn't understand you?

Quit wasting your time with people like him.

[anasp]

I guess the best thing to say is that you have as many people accusing you of being straught as you have accusing you of being gay. That certainly happens to me. It's ridiculous...

Probably they see as gayer or straighter because that's how we tend to act around them. I'm not confortable (and they wouldn't be) in being more 'lesbian' (commenting girls sexually, commenting experiences, etc etc) arounf female straight friends, and I notice I do tend to speak less about guys around lesbian friends as well. So they end up only seeing one side of the coin.

Funny thing is a bi girl can state as clearly as possible she damn wants pussy and still she's denying her lesbianism. Because admitting you're a lesbian is much harder than admitting you want to fuck girls. Of course.

[darkeyes]

I guess the best thing to say is that you have as many people accusing you of being straught as you have accusing you of being gay. That certainly happens to me. It's ridiculous...

Probably they see as gayer or straighter because that's how we tend to act around them. I'm not confortable (and they wouldn't be) in being more 'lesbian' (commenting girls sexually, commenting experiences, etc etc) arounf female straight friends, and I notice I do tend to speak less about guys around lesbian friends as well. So they end up only seeing one side of the coin.

Funny thing is a bi girl can state as clearly as possible she damn wants pussy and still she's denying her lesbianism. Because admitting you're a lesbian is much harder than admitting you want to fuck girls. Of course.

Actually hun its aruguable ya claim ther...cos lotsa peeps peeps hav more time for lessies than they do for bi girls.. an more respect for em... not how it shud b but its jus a reality we havta face... the main difference is bi girls r chased a bit more cos they looked on as easier meat by both sexes ...an in respect of guys r a turn on ne way cos they don hav 2 much chance gettin laid by an outrite lez... in the case of lessies wile lots wan in a bi girls knickers lots wudn touch em wiv a 10 foot bargepole cos they considered rite tarts bein available for ne thin that moves. Its arrogant an bigotted in the case of lessies, an in the case of men its jus that lil brain on end of ther willie workin ovatime as usual...

mite b rong..but it dus read 2 me as if ya think bigirls r lessies, jus 2 scared 2 admit it.... tell me me rong huh?

[IanBorthwick]

If I had a nickel for everytime someone told me something discriminatory about bisexuals from the GLBT community, I would have a pile of them high enough to drown myself in. And you get it all over, from straights supposedly "educated" by gays and lesbians, and then there are the GLs themselves. They cannot comprehend us because they are not LIKE us. We're lumped together with them for mutual protection, but the fact is Gays and Lesbians have more in common with the straight community than we do. We're lumped with them because the heteros see our like of the same gender as being akin to the GL community, and the GL community see us as being able to hide on the Straight community.

They don't believe because most have trouble comprehending, and they most likely won't until we start having our own Pride events. We need to stand apart soon and make a case for us so they will both be forced to contend with the fact we are real and not to be pushed into a box for their comfortable defining.

[Schumi]

I can't understand why people should put labels in everything they are doing?I mean why a man should called gay because he likes men or a woman should called lesbian because she likes women or someone should be called bi because he/she likes both of them?I suppose that everyone have the right to like what he/she thinks enjoyable.I can't understand why if someone like vegetables should be called vegetarian and not just someone who prefer vegetables and that's it.No labels.

[darkeyes]

If I had a nickel for everytime someone told me something discriminatory about bisexuals from the GLBT community, I would have a pile of them high enough to drown myself in. And you get it all over, from straights supposedly "educated" by gays and lesbians, and then there are the GLs themselves. They cannot comprehend us because they are not LIKE us. We're lumped together with them for mutual protection, but the fact is Gays and Lesbians have more in common with the straight community than we do. We're lumped with them because the heteros see our like of the same gender as being akin to the GL community, and the GL community see us as being able to hide on the Straight community.

They don't believe because most have trouble comprehending, and they most likely won't until we start having our own Pride events. We need to stand apart soon and make a case for us so they will both be forced to contend with the fact we are real and not to be pushed into a box for their comfortable defining.
I agree only wivya in part hun... that we r lumped togetha for mutual protection is questionable since so much of the gay an les community jus don wan us lumped wiv em at all.. ya havta accept summat as reel fore ya can bring em unda ya wing... so much of the gay an lessie community simply do not accept that.. wich is jus wot the discussion has been bout... its up 2 us 2bring em screamin inta the face of reality an convince em that it in in ther interests 2 wholheartedly welcum bi's as part of the whole LGB.. o yea.. an T umbrella... they kinda put on a backburner by the Gay an les lot even more than us... an both them an ourselves can b jus a s bad as the str8 community in not treatin em seriously an givin Trans peeps the respect an acceptance that they deserve...


Hav our own pride events? mayb... but that will jus reinforce the prejudice an resistance 2 the rite of bisexuals 2 be considered as part of the whole LGBT thing... r we serious or not bout that? We do hav more in common than not. Similarly we hav more in common wiv the str8 community than not... Wy we need an umbrella organisatiion for LGBT is in part 2 defend oursleves in the face of prejudice, in part 2 further our rites as bi peeps 2 b accpeted as bein able 2 live the lifestyle we wish, an 2 love whoever we do, but in part also 2 demsonstarate 2 the str8 comminity that we r jus people, like them, who love live an wish 2 b at peace wiv the world...

Me dreams of the day wen peeps sexuality is accepted wivout ne criticism by ne 1... we a long way away from that but until that day gay, lessie, bi an trans peeps havta stick 2getha an argue our case... if we don, wen the inevitable reaction 2 the gains of the las half century cums, we will b pikked off an divided by the intransigence an arrogance of those in all the so called "queer" communities who refuse 2 b a part of the whole wiv ther natural allies within the whole lgbt umbrella... before we can truly gain accpetance an undastaning from the str8 world we havta convince our own we r reel an deservin of it...

[purpletoes]

I'm inclined to agree with Darkeyes. we have to stick together with GLT's and educate them when needed. I have gay and straight friends who understand very well the fact of bisexuality and when I encounter those who don't I try to gently inform them of the reality. So far no problem.

I have had people tell me that bi's are just gay's in the closet which is funny because I used to question my own bi-ness and wonder if I was straight and really just wanted to be gay! But all I ever had to do was fantasize a moment about a woman...mmm...nice! And then about a man...mmmm...nice! Yup! Bi alright!

[michnele]

Purpletoes, sometimes I wonder about that too, especially since one of my friends accused me of just wanting to be radical etc by being bi. Sometimes I wonder if my mind isn't "making it all up" and that a few (insanely intense) crushes are "enough" to make me bi...
Then, sometimes I flip around and think I might be gay and am just too conditioned to think of myself as straight to realize it.
Needless to say, I'm a tad bit confused :(
I suppose that my inability to categorize myself as either gay or straight must make me bi by default ;)

[FalconAngel]

...... So there it is, why don’t people believe in bisexuality and why wouldn’t someone who admits they prefer men not just come out as gay if they were? Thanks for any answers.RJ:lokai:

Why don't people believe that this is not the only planet with intelligent life? Why do people still think that we are smarter than Dolphins and Porpoises when we are clearly not?

The answer to all of those questions is simple. The world is full of foolish people who refuse to accept the truth. It took years for some people to believe that the Wright Brothers actually flew at Kitty Hawk....even after viewing the movie footage of it.

The world is full of people who will not believe the truth, even when it is right in front of them. As proof, I offer those creationists that claim that the Earth is only 6000 years old, even though the evidence says otherwise.

Faith is belief in absence of evidence; Foolishness is belief in contradiction of evidence.

Next time just walk away shaking your head.

[mn freak]

Why don't people believe that this is not the only planet with intelligent life? Why do people still think that we are smarter than Dolphins and Porpoises when we are clearly not?

The answer to all of those questions is simple. The world is full of foolish people who refuse to accept the truth. It took years for some people to believe that the Wright Brothers actually flew at Kitty Hawk....even after viewing the movie footage of it.

The world is full of people who will not believe the truth, even when it is right in front of them. As proof, I offer those creationists that claim that the Earth is only 6000 years old, even though the evidence says otherwise.

Faith is belief in absence of evidence; Foolishness is belief in contradiction of evidence.

Next time just walk away shaking your head.

Perfect. I couldn't phrase it any better than this!!!

:bibounce: :flag3: :flag3:

[darkeyes]

Brill Angel babes.. me head been shakin ova last 14 or 15 years ova this 1! But walkin away me has found jus a bit harder 2 do bein a rite argumentative cow!!:tong:

[parkwings]

Yes, there are many, many, idiots on this planet(of all orientations)..that's why I am concerning myself less and less with others' opinions.

Aaaaaahh, feels good!

[Azrael]

Fuck 'em. I've had girlfriends, boyfriends, even people I don't know give me shit about this. And then there are parents. I don't give a fuck. I'm not up in people's face about the fact that I have same sex attraction, but I'll be damned if I let someone make me feel lousy about myself. Truly fucked thing is, I don't think most of them are trying to make me feel bad, just asserting whatever stupid ideas their shaky foundation sits upon.
I'm basically an outsider everywhere I go. Too queer for the straights and too straight for the queers. Sigh.

Going back to finding solace in AFI,
tom

[Cesca]

Maybe it is just me Azrael. But I just read your profile and have read a few of your posts over the last few weeks, and it seems to me that you crave the acceptance you say you dont care about. It s not something I lose sleep over but I crave it as my right to live as I choose. Im not usually the most perceptive but nor am I the most stupid. Your every word shouts it out.

There is no shame in it so why deny what appears so obvious to the least observant. I dont mean to sound rude but I do think you are going through a period of either self delusion or attempting to display a macho persona you simply seem incapable of carrying off. Just from reading your words I believe you to be a sensitive guy trying to make sense of his life and hiding his pain by trying to be what he is not.

[Azrael]

That would be nice. Most people day to day are fine with it. I just wish my family weren't so put off by it. You're not wrong, darling :P
Hiding my pain, though. Not really. Projecting I guess.
My cruel deconstructionist world perspective or whatever is merely a survival tactic. I'm really quite nice.
Point is, I don't make an issue about it, but a lot of folks do, and it's a fairly major source of my discontent. I just try to shrug off stuff I can't change.

[Cesca]

I believe you are sweetheart:)

[bi-robin-wash]

As the late Dr. Richard Feynman once asked, "What do you care what other people think of you?"

Anyone who insists that you claim to be bi because you're uncomfortable with your "true" sexuality is himself uncomfortable with his own sexuality.

I suck cock and I eat pussy. What does that make me? What's that you say? You don't know what gender I am so you can't label me? Gee, kin dof points out the foolishness of labels, doesn't it?

[darkeyes]

AS the still livin Fran sez.... "wots that? yas str8? an hubbie is gay??? bollox...ther no such thing..now tootle off an leave us lone...."

[jamiehue]

Fuck 'em. I've had girlfriends, boyfriends, even people I don't know give me shit about this. And then there are parents. I don't give a fuck. I'm not up in people's face about the fact that I have same sex attraction, but I'll be damned if I let someone make me feel lousy about myself. Truly fucked thing is, I don't think most of them are trying to make me feel bad, just asserting whatever stupid ideas their shaky foundation sits upon.
I'm basically an outsider everywhere I go. Too queer for the straights and too straight for the queers. Sigh.

Going back to finding solace in AFI,
tom
last nite i made the same comment to a straight gf of mine. She dislikes bis and was very comfortable with having a gay friend now im a threat or something.It would be better if she thought i was str8 and said i was bi than vice versa so my call list keeps gettin smaller.

[DiamondDog]

last nite i made the same comment to a straight gf of mine. She dislikes bis and was very comfortable with having a gay friend now im a threat or something.It would be better if she thought i was str8 and said i was bi than vice versa so my call list keeps gettin smaller.

lol that's weird.

Did she think you were a gay man when you were having sex or something? :rolleyes:

Was she one of those hetero fag hags that thought, "Oh I can convert him! He'll make a GREAT husband!" LAMO

This is why I really don't care if other people don't get me since I'm being honest and I know myself.

I'm not going to lose sleep or my entire world view isn't going to collapse if someone thinks I'm homosexual and not a queer fence sitter, or if they don't get what I write or think about.

[michnele]

Feynman!!
He's pretty awesome alright :bigrin:
I love the anecdotes...

[heavyfnmetal]

Poor grey... stuck in the background while black and white get all the attention. Hardly anyone even realizes grey exists...

[Dog62]

I had a g/f who on occasion liked me to cum in a margarita glass so she could pour it back into my mouth. It was a visual thing for her. She liked to see it. WTF, she liked it so why not?

[Dog62]

That is weird. The above post by me was made in a different thread and wound up here....please disregard it.

[but that's my name!!]

K here goes,

I'M GAY...


...hmm, nope I still dig girls. Seriously, I (as I'm sure most of us) went through the "am I gay? ah sooo confused" crap to get where we are already.

Or am I wrong? Do people go through a "phase" of thinking thay're bi before the "am I gay?" bit?

You can always argue back with the "everyone's bi" theory :bigrin:

[but that's my name!!]

last nite i made the same comment to a straight gf of mine. She dislikes bis and was very comfortable with having a gay friend now im a threat or something.It would be better if she thought i was str8 and said i was bi than vice versa so my call list keeps gettin smaller.

I've had that happen 9people make assumptions), wierd eh? Hey J, long time.

[vices2habits]

... The world is full of foolish people who refuse to accept the truth. It took years for some people to believe that the Wright Brothers actually flew at Kitty Hawk....even after viewing the movie footage of it.

The world is full of people who will not believe the truth, even when it is right in front of them. As proof, I offer those creationists that claim that the Earth is only 6000 years old, even though the evidence says otherwise.

Faith is belief in absence of evidence; Foolishness is belief in contradiction of evidence. ...

To which I would add: by definition, damn near half of The People are dumber than average.

:cool:

[jamiehue]

I've had that happen 9people make assumptions), wierd eh? Hey J, long time.
Hey back at ya I now call the horse vans lorries!

[Karmacoma]

Why don't people believe that this is not the only planet with intelligent life? Why do people still think that we are smarter than Dolphins and Porpoises when we are clearly not?

The answer to all of those questions is simple. The world is full of foolish people who refuse to accept the truth. It took years for some people to believe that the Wright Brothers actually flew at Kitty Hawk....even after viewing the movie footage of it.

The world is full of people who will not believe the truth, even when it is right in front of them. As proof, I offer those creationists that claim that the Earth is only 6000 years old, even though the evidence says otherwise.

Faith is belief in absence of evidence; Foolishness is belief in contradiction of evidence.

Next time just walk away shaking your head.

Um, humans ARE smarter than dolphins and porpoises.

[FalconAngel]

Um, humans ARE smarter than dolphins and porpoises.

Why? Because we have technology? So what? If dolphins had opposable thumbs, then we would be doing tricks for them.

The Human brain is 10 lbs, of which we use two percent, whereas the dolphin brain is 10,5 lbs, of which they use almost half.

Who would you think is smarter; the species that uses two percent of a ten lb brain or the species that used 35 - 40 percent of a ten and a half pound brain?

If we are so smart, then why is it that we can only begin to understand their communication through the use of supercomputers and then, not well or near completely, but they can understand us without all that technology?

Intelligence does not need technology to exist, but technology needs both the ability to build it and the intelligence to understand where that technology started to make it work. Dolphins and porpoises lack the ability to build it, nothing more.

You seem to suffer from the ethnocentric philosophy that because we have technology that we are superior to all of those who do not possess our technology level.

All of that superiority and technology becomes useless without the support structure to keep it alive.

Let's try dropping you in the middle of the Outback with nothing but woods and aborigine's around you. No technology, nothing from our modern world. Those "primitive" aborigine's would be calling you stupid if you did not know how to survive without our modern technology.

Technology depends on intelligence, not the other way around.

[FalconAngel]

To which I would add: by definition, damn near half of The People are dumber than average.

:cool:

Well, our last election proved that.

[Karmacoma]

Why? Because we have technology? So what? If dolphins had opposable thumbs, then we would be doing tricks for them.

The Human brain is 10 lbs, of which we use two percent, whereas the dolphin brain is 10,5 lbs, of which they use almost half.

Who would you think is smarter; the species that uses two percent of a ten lb brain or the species that used 35 - 40 percent of a ten and a half pound brain?

If we are so smart, then why is it that we can only begin to understand their communication through the use of supercomputers and then, not well or near completely, but they can understand us without all that technology?

Intelligence does not need technology to exist, but technology needs both the ability to build it and the intelligence to understand where that technology started to make it work. Dolphins and porpoises lack the ability to build it, nothing more.

You seem to suffer from the ethnocentric philosophy that because we have technology that we are superior to all of those who do not possess our technology level.

All of that superiority and technology becomes useless without the support structure to keep it alive.

Let's try dropping you in the middle of the Outback with nothing but woods and aborigine's around you. No technology, nothing from our modern world. Those "primitive" aborigine's would be calling you stupid if you did not know how to survive without our modern technology.

Technology depends on intelligence, not the other way around.

There's a lot about me that you don't know. Yes I can survive without modern technology, can you?

The idea that you think that dolphins are somehow more intelligent than humans is a complete joke and just shows how much of a fool you are.