Jena 6

[vittoria]

http://burningbird.net/connecting/the-jena-6/

read this article....

Theres so much crap going on in the world today its disgusting.

What are we going to do about it?

Any ideas?

Should we roll over and say "eff it"

or take a stand against blatant BS?

[MarieDelta]

Good question.

the American SE has always had a problem with racism. I'm not sure what you can do except try and eduacate the young people and try to get minorities to vote out the old entrenched leadership.

Needs to be some sort of watch placed on places like this, attention brought to their actions. Exposure by press, will sometimes push the feds into action against these places.

Seems like this place needs a good independent press, someone who isn't afraid to challenge the leadership and tell things the way they are.

Just my :2cents:

Marie

[LWynn4]

I agree its an atrocity, but its also the south unfortunately. Wherever you go theres going to be racism. but in this case I don't know what you CAN do. I mean it seems pretty deep rooted in the area ya know. I can't and don't want to imagine what would happen to the other "deviants" in the community.

[Azrael]

I agree its an atrocity, but its also the south unfortunately. Wherever you go theres going to be racism. but in this case I don't know what you CAN do. I mean it seems pretty deep rooted in the area ya know. I can't and don't want to imagine what would happen to the other "deviants" in the community.

Precisely. Remember the West Memphis 3, anyone?

[Skater Boy]

IMHO there are most likely no innocent parties in this one. It sounds to me like a bunch of juvenile kids acting up. And as is often the case, racism is present.

To me the black kids are little better than the white kids... obviously the white kids would seem to be rather crass (to say the least). But six black guys hospitalizing one white guy (provoked or not)... they are certainly no innocent angels. We can argue for all eternity "who started it?", but it doesn't make that much difference when everyone is using excuses to kick eachother in the teeth when they're on the ground.

The real problem is that the authorities would seem to be biased or prejudiced, and this is totally unacceptable. There should be some sort of committee assigned to such cases to ensure that the authorites are fair and impartial. EVEN in the South.

But IMHO they should probably lock both parties up... or neither at all, and just let them kill eachother and clean up the gene pool. Some would argue that the world is better off with a few less "Us V Them" protagonists.

Harsh, I know. But I'm just trying to make a point.

[DiamondDog]

Precisely. Remember the West Memphis 3, anyone?

They're still incarcerated aren't they?

[LWynn4]

yeah damn shame

[TaylorMade]

I agree its an atrocity, but its also the south unfortunately. Wherever you go theres going to be racism. but in this case I don't know what you CAN do. I mean it seems pretty deep rooted in the area ya know. I can't and don't want to imagine what would happen to the other "deviants" in the community.

It's not just the south, dammit!

Go to Boston or part of PA... they're just as racist, just that their shit is hidden.

Charles Stewart, anyone?

*Taylor*

[jem_is_bi]

Racism and violence are social problems that complement each other. But, on a personal level, a victim of either just views the perpetrator as a criminal.

JEM

[MarieDelta]

I think that partly we are all to blame. Whenever we something like this going down, we need todo the right thing stand up and let these people know that we aren't going to toleate the BS.

I've seen & heard prejudiced people in every corner of the world. Did I always stand up, no, but then you've gotta choose your battles too...

Transphobia exists, sexism exists, racism exists, heterosexism exists. We can't pretend it doesn't, we must insist that our elected leaders deal with these issues.

We must insist that those who deny the existence of any of these be forced to face the facts.

I guess what I am saying is that after thinking about it, is that there may not be anything we can do about this situation, but we can certainly do thinkgs in our own lives to prevent things like this from happening where we live.

Just my opinion

Marie

[FalconAngel]

PArt of the problem with the "Jena 6" is that they have racism pundits like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (both of whom have their fame and "notoriety" from racial issues) that keep running their mouths about the fact that the kids that hung the noose at the school yard were not charged with a crime. Particularly when there was nothing to indicate who the noose was for.
Was it in very poor taste? Yes.
Was it illegal? Not according to the laws in that state.

What the media fails to print on that issue is the fact that even the state prosecutor's office says it isn't a crime to do that. They would have been charged if they could find a charge to charge the kids with.
However, the charges against the "Jena 6" are very real and clear. What they are charged with doing is very much and very clearly a crime everywhere.

This whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion by the media and the racists amongst the black community that want to keep things as bad as possible for their own agenda.
Of course, the white racists want that too so that they can sit back and say "see? we were right".

[TaylorMade]

I think that partly we are all to blame. Whenever we something like this going down, we need todo the right thing stand up and let these people know that we aren't going to toleate the BS.

I've seen & heard prejudiced people in every corner of the world. Did I always stand up, no, but then you've gotta choose your battles too...

Transphobia exists, sexism exists, racism exists, heterosexism exists. We can't pretend it doesn't, we must insist that our elected leaders deal with these issues.

We must insist that those who deny the existence of any of these be forced to face the facts.

I guess what I am saying is that after thinking about it, is that there may not be anything we can do about this situation, but we can certainly do thinkgs in our own lives to prevent things like this from happening where we live.

Just my opinion

Marie

I feel like you're sliding to the other extreme with this , MD. . .prejudice for me, comes to an individual's decision about a group. You cannot always change someone's mind, and taking responsibility for a situation that doesn't immediately effect you, always struck me as a noble waste.

*Taylor*

[MarieDelta]

I feel like you're sliding to the other extreme with this , MD. . .prejudice for me, comes to an individual's decision about a group. You cannot always change someone's mind, and taking responsibility for a situation that doesn't immediately effect you, always struck me as a noble waste.

*Taylor*

Yeah but then I've always been a bit quixotic.

I know you can't always change someones mind about a group. But if you can find the right lever and push, you can move the world.

I'm not talking about changing peoples minds in a big way, I'm just saying that we not allow people to slip into denial about the facts.

That these people exist is a fact. That prejudice of all kinds exists is a fact.

I think most of "middle america" could really care less about people who aren't themselves (or are like themselves).

I guess I know that prejudice goes deep into our animal roots (in my veiw) and that we can do little if nothing to stop it. But at least we can acknowledge that fact and try to overcome it and deal with it. Most people can barely deal with those who aren't in their tribe.

I dunno what else to do. Tired of seeing this BS over and over again.

It's not just here, it's not just the south. It is everywhere.

Maybe I am just a tad crazy, but I hope it's a good kind of crazy.

[AdamKadmon43]

IMHO there are most likely no innocent parties in this one. It sounds to me like a bunch of juvenile kids acting up. And as is often the case, racism is present.

To me the black kids are little better than the white kids... obviously the white kids would seem to be rather crass (to say the least). But six black guys hospitalizing one white guy (provoked or not)... they are certainly no innocent angels. We can argue for all eternity "who started it?", but it doesn't make that much difference when everyone is using excuses to kick eachother in the teeth when they're on the ground.

The real problem is that the authorities would seem to be biased or prejudiced, and this is totally unacceptable. There should be some sort of committee assigned to such cases to ensure that the authorites are fair and impartial. EVEN in the South.

But IMHO they should probably lock both parties up... or neither at all, and just let them kill eachother and clean up the gene pool. Some would argue that the world is better off with a few less "Us V Them" protagonists.

Harsh, I know. But I'm just trying to make a point.

I think that you are precisely correct, Skater.

It really is a bunch of juveniles acting up, but unfortunately, a bunch of, evidently, juvenile adults have gotten involved with it and have not exercised the maturity and good judgement to try and resolve the situation in a proper manner.

I do not know how things work over there where you are, but in this country, racism is no longer the exclusive domain of southern white Anglo-Saxons males. There seems to be plenty enough of racism going around these days so that everyone can share in it.... And that makes me very sad.

There are very many Afro-Americans (I really hate terms such as that which seem to differentiate us so ... why can we not all just be Americans) who express a great deal of dis-like for me because of the color of my skin. They hold me directly responsible for the crimes of my fore-fathers which I had absolutely nothing to do with. That is not fair, but perhaps "Affirmative Action" sorts of stuff will fix it.

I have gotten my self into a bit of trouble these days with Hispanics, because I do not believe that they are entitled to come into this country illegally. For that I am labled a racist. I do not believe that Chinese, Indonesians, Greeks, Irish, Russians, or who ever the hell else should be allowed to sneak into the country illegaly, but because most of the people sneaking into the country illegally right now are from Latin America, my objection to them being here must mean that I hate Mexicans or something.

Do you suppose that is any hope for the amazingly confused human condition that we seem to find our selves in ?

It has just occured to me that this post is going to get me into trouble with some of the rather extreme liberal left wing lunatic fringe that seems to populate this forum... but that is ok.... I am really glad that they are about.... They seem to counter-balance the rather extreme right wing lunatic fringe that also seem to show up in here.

[12voltman59]

This case brings up lots of problems we have in this country--first-that there is a degree of racism inherent in our legal system and that is not just down south.

Two--prosecutor's running amok---I think that all too often---thanks to the conservative turn the country has made in the past decade or so---in order to show how dedicated to being "law and order" types--prosecutors charge way too much for crimes---in about 90 percent of cases involving fighting like this--any charges that are filed are not a major felony like attempted murder but some misdemeanor charges like simple assault and battery.

Now, while I don't know the facts in this case that the prosecutor has used to justify charging this crime at such a high level--you have to figure that if an appellate court has reversed the sentence and ordered the one boy in the case to be released from prison immediately--something the prosecutor has refused to do.

I worked in the criminal justice system for the better part of a decade in two different states so I have seen the inner workings of the "criminal justice system" up close and personal--and as some say regarding this "system"--"it is hardly just but it sure is criminal."

The big problem in the CJS along with racism, and this can affect nearly anyone--if you have lots of money--you can "buy" better justice than those who don't have much money.

Basically--if you are poor-and that goes irrespective of one's skin color----your are pretty well fucked!

[coyotedude]

The big problem in the CJS along with racism, and this can affect nearly anyone--if you have lots of money--you can "buy" better justice than those who don't have much money.

Basically--if you are poor-and that goes irrespective of one's skin color----your are pretty well fucked!

This is, unfortunately, all too true, at least in my experience. (Even in the so-called "progressive" Pacific NW.)

Mind you, it's also been my experience that most of the folks in prison worked pretty hard to get there. But still, all too often you are considered guilty until proven innocent. And even then, you still must be guilty of something.

Sigh....

[coyotedude]

I think that folks might be missing one of the most important points of the Jena 6.

People aren't stirred up because Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson told them to be. People are upset because they are frustrated as hell. They have absolutely no faith or trust that justice can or will be served in this or any case involving a person of color.

And guess what? They have reason to be frustrated.

We purport to be a country of equal justice for all. But all too often, justice is not equal. All too often, justice depends on where you live, what you look like, and how much money you have. That's real.

It's not just about race, no. Prosecutors who aren't white can be just as much assholes as their white counterparts. And the hard truth is that most people in prison - no matter the color of their skin - worked pretty damn hard to get there.

But race all too often plays a role. God help you if you're actually innocent and also black or Indian or Hispanic, because all too often the courts won't.

Are the Jena 6 model citizens? Perhaps not. That's not entirely the point, however. In our system, everyone is entitled to due process. Everyone is entitled to their day in court where the outcome is not preordained. But if there is no reason to believe that due process and impartiality are available, then how on earth can we call it a "justice" system?

Peace

[Dweeb]

PArt of the problem with the "Jena 6" is that they have racism pundits like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (both of whom have their fame and "notoriety" from racial issues) that keep running their mouths about the fact that the kids that hung the noose at the school yard were not charged with a crime. Particularly when there was nothing to indicate who the noose was for.
Was it in very poor taste? Yes.
Was it illegal? Not according to the laws in that state.

What the media fails to print on that issue is the fact that even the state prosecutor's office says it isn't a crime to do that. They would have been charged if they could find a charge to charge the kids with.
However, the charges against the "Jena 6" are very real and clear. What they are charged with doing is very much and very clearly a crime everywhere.

This whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion by the media and the racists amongst the black community that want to keep things as bad as possible for their own agenda.
Of course, the white racists want that too so that they can sit back and say "see? we were right".



If you've read any of the stories, you'd know that the fight in question was the culmination of months of fights between white and black kids in which the white kids were rarely charged with anything.

This didn't just happen a few weeks ago, either, these events happened last fall.

In one event, a white student went to his car and fetched a SHOTGUN, which he used to threaten blacks at a party. The black kids got the gun away from him and were charged with stealing the gun! Brandishing a weapon is certainly a crime everywhere, thank you very much. Why wasn't the white kid charged with brandishing?

As far as hanging nooses not being a crime, according to prosecutors, perhaps there are no laws in Louisiana that forbid hanging nooses from trees, but I'd venture to guess that conspiracy to incite a riot would be illegal there, as well as disturbing the peace.

The school allowed the situation to get out of hand and it should have never been allowed to go on as long as it did.

In my mind, the situation was not blown out of proportion by the media. These events happened a year ago, and only now are we hearing about it in the mainstream press.

You stated that "this whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion by the media and the racists amongst the black community that want to keep things as bad as possible for their own agenda."

And the holocaust never happened, either.

:banghead:

[Skater Boy]

To sum up this story:

A bunch of assholes are playing Lord Of The Flies, and the authorities (and various other parties) are taking sides.

There's not much need for debate here. Lock 'em ALL up, I say. And then prosecute the authorities and demagogues...

Let the rest of the decent, law abiding and tolerant members of society reap the rewards of not having these idiots walking among us.

[Sarasvati]

I'd like to comment on American matters although my understanding of the issues is limited to the posts in this thread.

All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing!!!

The defeat of Hitler was right. Americans (as well as many others from around the world) did give their lives in a dispute that didn't directly effect them. I do believe most of us benefit from that sacrifice.

On the Jena 6 issue I'm with MD; to try and stand up against racially inspired thuggery - which the black students are victims of and consequently the white youth is as well.

From what I have read above it seems the black people in this region are living in a kind of apartheid. The DA is a disgrace and the white youth might not have suffered at all if the DA had acted promptly and fairly. Would it be correct to call him a white supremacist?

The nooses were a shockingly nasty and provocative symbol. Are the black populations supposed to just meekly roll over and take it?

I know that I am some distance from these events and unfamiliar with the social forces at work in Louisiana but I can't help but feel greater sympathy towards the black population.

Who should be in the dock? The DA.

I would like the leading music bands in America to stage a festival promoting racially harmony. Forget about fanbases and sales figures and go out and address these (American) ideots in Jena.

[TaylorMade]

a music festival promoting racial harmony would do as much as live earth did.

Sorry, just being cynical.

*Taylor*

[Skater Boy]

a music festival promoting racial harmony would do as much as live earth did.

Sorry, just being cynical.

Oh, I dunno... maybe if you got like 50 cent, Dre and some other rappers to collaborate with some Rock or Metal bands for a special series of concerts. It wouldn't solve the whole problem of racism within America, but it might just bring together young people from potentially opposing social groups and thereby strengthen our sense of unity. No reason to draw the line just at music either...

[Sarasvati]

Skater grasps the point I was trying to make. It's about trying to alter attitudes over time.

To do absolutely nothing - and just switch the channel over is a luxury.

[AdamKadmon43]

It's about trying to alter attitudes over time.


Oh, give me a fuckin' break....

You are not going to alter any attitudes over time. People's ability to get along with each other is inversely proportional to the differences between them. And, all things considered, I seriously doubt that is ever going to change. In fact, as the world gets smaller, and we all start to realize how much we really do hate each other, it probably gets more, and not less, difficult to change.

And it keeps getting easier to act upon all that hatred. It keeps getting easier to kill people that we do not like. Centuries ago, your ability to destroy the neighbors that you did not much care for was limited to your ability to ride over them on horseback and shoot them with spears and such. And then, later on, we got guns, and ships and tanks that we could spread about the world, and allow us to be a bit more efficent in dealing with all of our Nationalistic, or Territorial, or Religious ambitions. Now we have nuclear weapons which we are waiting to see who has the nerve to use first. Not to mention the fact that you can just get on an airplane in some third world country, and within 24 hours be anywhere on the planet doing all sorts of horrid things like crashing into buildings or spreading Anthrax or Ebola or something.

But, I digress:

Think about it....... Muslims hate Christians, and Christians are not overly fond of Muslims. Catholics and Protestants have battled it out for ages on the issue of "My version of God is better than your version of God", (althought I must admit that the people in Ireland seemed to have reached some sort of temporary compromise on all that, and have momentarily stopped killing each other over it). . Sunnis kill Shias and Shias kill Sunnis over something as ridiculous as who should have been the more legimate successor of the alleged Prophet. Look at the misery and the mess in Sudan and a great deal of other parts of Africa which are the direct result of ethnic differences. And in the good old US of A, we all pretend that we are getting along well when we would all actually very much like to be rid of each other. The slightest little incidence here between people of different races becomes a racial issue of momumental proportions.

And everyone hates the Jews. I am not exactly sure what they did, but it must have been something really horrid. Probably had something to do with that "Isaac" and "Ishmael" business.

Buddhists and Christian Science Practicioners are not quite so guilty of hating everyone else only because they consider themselves and everyone else to be not really here.

And you want to tell me about some sort of altering attitudes over time ???

Dream on Sunshine. If you believe that is ever gonna happen, you got your head parked much more firmly up your but than I can get mine. This world ain't gonna change much in the next few millenia, If it ever does at all, and I do not believe that we are ever going to "alter attitudes over time", no matter how much you and I would dearly love to.

All that having been said, I suppose that I should address the original purpose and intent of this thread, which I suppose was to be the unfairness of racism.

I was born and raised in Southeast Alabama.... I got my self into trouble with my bigoted, racist family because I defended the rights of all people to be treated equally without bias or prejudice. I truly believed in what someone that I respected very much had to say about that.... "Do not judge people by the color or their skin, but by the quality of their character"

Then I moved to New Orleans, and one night, I took a bus to work, and a group of young black dudes physically forced me to go sit in the back of the bus for the crime of having been white. So screw them.... I will not longer defend their rights....

I believe that I have said this before, but I think that it is worth repeating.... It is not about what is right or wrong.... It is not about what is good or just..... It is ultimately about who has control, who calls the shots, who has it their way.

People really do not much like each other and perhaps it would be best if we could all separate ourselves from each other into groups that we feel comfortable with. Even though I have not the slightest idea how one might go about doing that.

Adam

[darkeyes]

Adam hun you really are such a weary willie, with no optimism for the future of our world. Not change attitudes over time? Not going to happen? For Gods sake babes read your history...look around you and open your eyes... humanity has been doing just that since it first develop a thought process over instinct. Whether that thought process is a good thing is moot.

Much of what you say about who hates who and who hates what and the state of play where you live is true. But never change? For crying out loud what a depressing scenario you outline for our furture.

Throughout history, mankind has changed attitudes. There are literally millions of examples in recorded history. Once slavery was an accepted thing, as was cannibalism. Women had no real place in our society, other than as general dogsbody mother and compelled shagee. No vote, no rights, nothing of her own save those decided upon by her father guardian or husband. In earlier times the feudal lord even had the right to be the shaggor on her wedding day. It was considered acceptable to stick children down mines an work them to death, paying them less than a shilling a week. To indent them to Chimney sweeps and stuff them down lums. They had no say in their lives, and in many cases no life. Indenture was common even in your country..a form of slavery for white people usually time limited. People were imprisoned at the whim of the king or Lords, and worse hanged, beheaded, drawn quartered. Torture was an accepted way to extract confession. It was considered acceptable to hunt people much as the nobs would hunt a fox today (if they were still allowed that is), with hounds and allow them to be ripped to shreds by those dogs. In the catholic world the inquistion was allowed to do as it pleased with "heretics" and witches..

Racism was always an accepted ethos, as was anti homosexuality. Who a century ago would have dreamed so much progress would have been made on both these issues? Many problems remain, such as gay resentment of bisexuality, and worse, ghettoising immigrants, and worse. But progress on both issues has been in its own way startling since 1907. Since 1957 even. Since 1997. And it continues to move ahead.. and why?? because people, individually and collectively have changed attitude.

Things change Adam, peoples attitudes do change. My country once fought what amounted to a 300 year long war against its neighbour, and the people of both countries mistrusted and hated each other. Today while their remains some element of racist mistrust in some for historical reasons, essentially those two countries are not only good friends, but united in one state. Similarly, not much more than a century ago your country and Canada were hardly best of mates, your country and mine either for that matter. Only a little over half a century ago the nations of Europe mistrusted and hated Germany, and to a great degree each other. Now 24 of these states are not only allied with Germany, not only friends, but are part of a loose yet conversely close knit, if stressful political and economic union with Germany. The UK and France historically enemies and still great rivals are a part of that union.

Once workers had no rights in western society.. now they have rights for which not only people died to achieve, many would lay their lives down to defend. And more.. not only workers but those who are not of the ruling elite, the working classes, the unemployed, the sick, the dying. For centuries people accepted their lot, the ruling classes accepted their privelege without a care for those who provided them their wealth..they had the power and all the rights... attitudes changed.. and now everyone has rights as well as responsibilities and it is proper that this is so.

The world is in a mess Adam. There are many different ideas about how we solve the problems of our world. I have one set you another and 6 billion plus others will have other ideas. But just as you grow and develop as a person and change your attitudes based on your experience of life and its living, so humanity has always done, and always will do. That is why we as species has been so successful in so many ways. It may often be imperceptible, too slow, certainly too slow for me, and fraught with difficulties... but attitudes do and will always change. Sometimes not always for the better, but one step back two steps forward has always been humanity's way. The main thing is that we do progress, and in our own way we are doing just that.

So dont be such a pessimist and read a bit more of the history of our species..and see how over the ages we are where we are simply because attitudes have changed.

[justafriend]

Reply by Reed Walters, District Attorney of LaSalle Parish printed in the NY Times

THE case of the so-called Jena Six has fired the imaginations of thousands, notably young African-Americans who, according to many of their comments, believe they will be in the vanguard of a new civil rights movement. Whether America needs a new civil rights movement I leave to social activists, politicians and the people who must give life to such a cause.

I am a small-town lawyer and prosecutor. For 16 years, it has been my job as the district attorney to review each criminal case brought to me by the police department or the sheriff, match the facts to any applicable laws and seek justice for those who have been harmed. The work is often rewarding, but not always.

I do not question the sincerity or motivation of the 10,000 or more protesters who descended on Jena last week, after riding hundreds of miles on buses. But long before reaching our town of 3,000 people, they had decided that a miscarriage of justice was taking place here. Their anger at me was summed up by a woman who said, “If you can figure out how to make a schoolyard fight into an attempted murder charge, I’m sure you can figure out how to make stringing nooses into a hate crime.”

That could be a compelling statement to someone trying to motivate listeners on a radio show, but as I am a lawyer obligated to enforce the laws of my state, it does not work for me.

I cannot overemphasize how abhorrent and stupid I find the placing of the nooses on the schoolyard tree in late August 2006. If those who committed that act considered it a prank, their sense of humor is seriously distorted. It was mean-spirited and deserves the condemnation of all decent people.

But it broke no law. I searched the Louisiana criminal code for a crime that I could prosecute. There is none.

Similarly, the United States attorney for the Western District of Louisiana, who is African-American, found no federal law against what was done.

A district attorney cannot take people to trial for acts not covered in the statutes. Imagine the trampling of individual rights that would occur if prosecutors were allowed to pursue every person whose behavior they disapproved of.

The “hate crime” the protesters wish me to prosecute does not exist as a stand-alone offense in Louisiana law. It’s not that our Legislature has turned a blind eye to crimes motivated by race or other personal characteristics, but it has addressed the problem in a way that does not cover what happened in Jena. The hate crime statute is used to enhance the sentences of defendants found guilty of specific crimes, like murder or rape, who chose their victims based on race, religion, sexual orientation or other factors.

Last week, a reporter asked me whether, if I had it to do over, I would do anything differently. I didn’t think of it at the time, but the answer is yes. I would have done a better job of explaining that the offenses of Dec. 4, 2006, did not stem from a “schoolyard fight” as it has been commonly described in the news media and by critics.

Conjure the image of schoolboys fighting: they exchange words, clench fists, throw punches, wrestle in the dirt until classmates or teachers pull them apart. Of course that would not be aggravated second-degree battery, which is what the attackers are now charged with. (Five of the defendants were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder.) But that’s not what happened at Jena High School.

The victim in this crime, who has been all but forgotten amid the focus on the defendants, was a young man named Justin Barker, who was not involved in the nooses incident three months earlier. According to all the credible evidence I am aware of, after lunch, he walked to his next class. As he passed through the gymnasium door to the outside, he was blindsided and knocked unconscious by a vicious blow to the head thrown by Mychal Bell. While lying on the ground unaware of what was happening to him, he was brutally kicked by at least six people.

Imagine you were walking down a city street, and someone leapt from behind a tree and hit you so hard that you fell to the sidewalk unconscious. Would you later describe that as a fight?

Only the intervention of an uninvolved student protected Mr. Barker from severe injury or death. There was serious bodily harm inflicted with a dangerous weapon — the definition of aggravated second-degree battery. Mr. Bell’s conviction on that charge as an adult has been overturned, but I considered adult status appropriate because of his role as the instigator of the attack, the seriousness of the charge and his prior criminal record.

I can understand the emotions generated by the juxtaposition of the noose incident with the attack on Mr. Barker and the outcomes for the perpetrators of each. In the final analysis, though, I am bound to enforce the laws of Louisiana as they exist today, not as they might in someone’s vision of a perfect world.

That is what I have done. And that is what I must continue to do.

Reed Walters is the district attorney of LaSalle Parish.

[blew bi me]

I think too many people have been believing what they hear on the news again.

If its printed in the paper or reported on TV news, it isn't necessarily true. As a matter of fact, it probably is NOT true.

Kids getting in fights....been happening since before I was born, will continue to happen after I'm gone. The reason isn't important...racism, girl problems, whatever. But having Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton stir shit up doesn't improve things. What wasn't necessarily racist suddenly is. Jena didn't even have an NAACP chapter until the press got involved. This actually happened long ago but suddenly, on a slow news day, its blatant racism.

Give me a fucking break.

Oh, and by the way....I'm personally offended by the people that wrote this off as standard Southern daily fare. Fuck you and keep your Yankee ass up north where you belong. LOL, that should get things going again.

[allbimyself]

I'm personally offended by the people that wrote this off as standard Southern daily fare. Fuck you and keep your Yankee ass up north where you belongTechnically, I'm neither a yank nor a reb. I call Missouri home even though I was neither born there nor currently reside there. For the last 9 or so years I've resided in the Northeast. Many yankees I've found to be hypocritical provincialists at best and bigoted at worst. White residents of the US South are often portrayed as ignorant bigots while others nod their heads in agreement. Unfortunately, yankees can't see that condemning all Southern whites as bigots due to the action of some is as illogical as any other form of bigotry. (Neil Young anyone?)

On top of all that, I've encountered as much white/black racism here as I have in any other part of the country in which I've lived.

[TaylorMade]

Oh, and by the way....I'm personally offended by the people that wrote this off as standard Southern daily fare. Fuck you and keep your Yankee ass up north where you belong. LOL, that should get things going again.

Exactly. . .

I have fucked too many good 'ol boys (and girls) and met their dear old mommas (who in one case was happy to see their boy was dating someone "with an education"- - I only have an AA and an AS to my name) to write off the South as racist in entire.

*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

Jus as no wer is entirely free of racism Taylor hun we both know nower is racist in the entire....:)

[12voltman59]

These days, it is getting increasingly harder to try to get a sense of just what is real, since "reality" does seem to depend so much on the place one sits looking at "the facts."

This is certainly the case in terms of the war in Iraq and so many other things these days---

This case I guess is but one more example of this sad fact.

I still hold to my view that our judicial system is many negative things---including being racist in far too many instances but even more than that--is well stacked against those who have modest to no money to provide one with access to top notch legal counsel-that is the biggest failing of the system of all in a country supposedly dedicated to ideals of freedom and justice.

While you may have access to some level of legal assistance when facing criminal charges thanks to the public defender system---in most places in America-that system is so dramatically underfunded to almost be rendered useless.

[Sarasvati]

Reading justafriend, I withdraw my previous comments about the DA.

I think in London there has been some progress made on the subject of racism.

Of course, we are a very long way from any utopia, we have plenty of racial tensions and race crimes too.

But I do meet many people both black and white from continental Europe who tell me London/Britain is much more hospitable than elsewhere. That is their perception.

I also meet many black Britons who insist Britain is a racist hole and wish they lived in America.

Although the perpetual state of flux ensures that a rift that heals in one place is balanced by a new rift that breaks out somewhere else, it is possible to achieve limited progress. And that limited progress is worth fighting for.

Racial hostility is not set in stone - there is nothing necessary about such hostility; even the enmity between the USA and parts of the Middle East is not set in stone.

In Britain, music has played a significant role in changing the attitudes of white youth to black people; think of The Clash for example. The idea is perhaps not so daft as some would have it.

Personally, I have never encountered any racial hatred directed at myself by a black person. In fact, I can't think of any black person I've met who has been anything other than decent and friendly.

I have experienced the assumption that I am racially prejudiced (which is a form of racism, but not hugely harmful). And I have encountered racist affrontery from Asian people towards myself - but not black people.

America undoubtedly has unique cultural complexities with considerable local variations and perhaps my suggestions would be largely futile in America.

I hope in Britain we can make significant strides forward in promoting black people within our society and, hopefully we can then be a beacon for the rest of the world showing that it is possible for progress to occur on racial issues.

If you want things to change for the better, you CAN do it.

You can, at least, try.

That your endeavours may, in the event, prove hopeless is no reason to sit back and stew in the obesity of gluttonous cynicism.

Call me a dreamer, call me a fantasist and a romantic. Till the dark and the light unite the battle rages on and in my quiet way the sword shall not sleep in my hand. I have a dream....

Now come on Adam, etc.,

[Skater Boy]

Further to Sarasvati's post, I'd just like to say that racism (in its various forms) is present within ALL ethnic communities in London. I've seen/experienced enough of it first-hand to know that its definitely there, even if it is latent or disguised in some cases. In a generalized way, the black community are no less racist than the whites, or even the Asians, IMO.

From what Adam says, he's experienced black on white racism first hand, so he may be allowing that to influence his opinions. Rest assured Adam, that by no means do ALL black people subscribe to such prejudiced mentalities. Although I do understand where you're coming from.

BUT, that shouldn't stop us from attempting to build cultural bridges and achieving unity. To try but fail, is acceptable. But not to even try in the first place isn't.

[Azrael]

BUT, that shouldn't stop us from attempting to build cultural bridges and achieving unity. To try but fail, is acceptable. But not to even try in the first place isn't.

"We must learn to live together as brothers, or we are going to perish together as fools."
-MLK jr

[darkeyes]

Ahhhhh S babes..me agrees wiv ya in the main.. but its all so terribly slow this makin progress thingie..

Unlike u me has met a few rite racist shites from minority ethnic backgrounds... Asians who look down on blacks as scum, an whites often jus cos they feel like..Blacks who hate whites cos we r all racist bastards who plundered africa an took em all inta slavery, hate asians cos they think they r arrogant stuck up bastards (quote from an immigrant from Tunisia), Poles who r arrogant tossers so stereotypical of our view of them, Roumanians who god help ya if yas a Romer.. an Chinese...Chinese who are jus betta than ne 1 else an hate everybody..

Course they not all like that.. mos of every nationality me met is luffly an triff fun, an hates racism as much as ne of us... but they r jus examples of the fact that every people has racist arseholes in ther midst.. am not gonna go inta the whys an wherefores ere..jus 2 say that they exist.. an we wud be doin ne anti racist movement a disservice if we iggie that sad fact...

An by way...its a long time since me wos in a hedgerow... enuff priks in this world wivout rollin bout in ther....:bigrin: Howeva 1ce did hav a ratha nice canoodle wiv a charmin an sexy guy (yes guy) from Paraguay in sum bushes..... tong:

[Skater Boy]

Howeva 1ce did hav a ratha nice canoodle wiv a charmin an sexy guy (yes guy) from Paraguay in sum bushes..... tong:

See what I mean, Fran? Ya give it out when ya feel like it, but when the rest of us comes knockin' ya play the "I'm a dyke, get over it!" card. :confused: :bigrin:

[darkeyes]

See what I mean, Fran? Ya give it out when ya feel like it, but when the rest of us comes knockin' ya play the "I'm a dyke, get over it!" card. :confused: :bigrin:

Gave it out babes...past tense..... long time since me gave it out 2 a lesser mortal an wos married 2 im.....:female::female::bigrin::tong:

[AdamKadmon43]

In the catholic world the inquistion was allowed to do as it pleased with "heretics" and witches..


WOW.. I was getting worried for a bit there. I thought that you were going to forget about the "We don't drown Witches anymore" part. Pretty much obligitory for the "things are getting better" crowd to mention that one

Seriously ..... I concede that in relatively recent times, some amounts of gains have been made against oppression. At least in some parts of Western culture. For much of the rest of the world, they fare little better in that arena now than they ever did...... And I trust that those gains will remain in place and continue to improve, but I suspect that the permanentcy of all that will depend upon who ultimately gets control.

But I WILL NOT concede that people's attitudes toward each other and their ability to get along with each other has much improved, at least not on a global scale. That being based on the empirical evidence that, at any given time, so many of them seem to be so intent upon killing each other.

But perhaps I should suspend my judgement on that pending the out-come of the Committee to Abolish Original Sin.

Adam

[12voltman59]

The following comes from and email I received on Thursday from the Southern Poverty Law Center--Morris Dee's Organization created to try to counter the injustices perpetrated within and without our legal system and in our society,

Dear Friend,
We've heard from many of you who are shocked by the blatantly unequal application of justice in Jena, Louisiana.

We're as outraged as you are, and wanted to let you know what actions we're taking, not only to seek justice for the Jena 6, but also to address the roots of this tragic legacy of Jim Crow.

The issue is not whether there should be some punishment for those who beat a white student in school. The issue is that black defendants in our country are consistently treated much more harshly than white defendants.

If you don't know the story yet, six black high school students face years in prison for beating up a white student during a period of racial tensions that began after white kids hung nooses from a schoolyard tree. No one was prosecuted for hanging the nooses, a clear hate crime.

We don't condone violence of any kind. But we believe the prosecutor's decision to charge these teens with attempted murder was an appalling example of racial inequality that continues to plague this country. Incredibly, when white kids earlier attacked one of the Jena 6, only one of them was arrested, and he served no jail time.

This double standard in our justice system is not confined to Jena — or even to the Deep South. Similar injustices are taking place every day across America. Black youths are being hustled out of schools and into prisons at an alarming rate, often for behavior that doesn't seem so serious when committed by white kids.

With your help, we're taking action to stop these abuses:

We've brought some of the best defense attorneys in Louisiana to the Jena case, and we're making progress.
We exposed threats by white supremacists who posted the Jena 6 families' addresses online. Louisiana's governor has now ordered state police protection for them. We're continuing to monitor these violent hate-mongers.
Our Teaching Tolerance program issued a special bulletin advising educators on ways to recognize and dissipate racial tensions in their schools so that future Jena-type situations can be defused before they erupt into violence.
And, we've recently launched a broad new initiative to help marginalized children, many of them black and poor, overcome the difficulties that can mean the difference between graduation and incarceration.

We're working hard to get justice for the Jena 6 and the thousands of other children whose lives are being ruined by a system that is anything but color blind.

We thank each of you for lending your voice to this important fight for racial justice.

Sincerely yours,


Morris Dees
Founder

J. Richard Cohen
CEO and President

[AdamKadmon43]

A few little facts about the Southern Poverty Law Center:

It was founded in 1971 by Direct-Marketing millionaire Morris Dees.

He is sort of the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker of the civil rights movement. The Center earned $44 million last year alone. $27 million from fund-raising and $17 million from stocks and other investments, but spent only $13 million on civil rights program , making it one of the most profitable charities in the country.

Mr. Dees pulls down a salary of about $300,000 a year and lives on a 200 acre estate, replete with tennis courts, and pools, and a stable.

Mr. Dees has made millions hawking, by direct mail, such humble commodities as birthday cakes, cookbooks (including Favorite Recipes of American Home Economics Teachers), tractor seat cushions, and rat poison. He is so good in fact that in 1998 the Direct Marketing Association inducted him into its Hall of Fame.

"I learned everything I know about hustling from the Baptist Church," Dees has said. "Spending Sundays on those hard benches listening to the preacher pitch salvation, why, it was like getting a Ph.D. in selling."

Dr. Dees masterfully transforms, with a mere flourish of hyperbole, an education kit available "at cost" for $30 on the SPLC website into "a $325 value."

And you want to believe anything that this guy says ???

How come I didn't have sense enough to get into the civil rights business ????

Adam

[coyotedude]

I was born and raised in Southeast Alabama.... I got my self into trouble with my bigoted, racist family because I defended the rights of all people to be treated equally without bias or prejudice. I truly believed in what someone that I respected very much had to say about that.... "Do not judge people by the color or their skin, but by the quality of their character"

Then I moved to New Orleans, and one night, I took a bus to work, and a group of young black dudes physically forced me to go sit in the back of the bus for the crime of having been white. So screw them.... I will not longer defend their rights....

(sigh)

You let some young assholes in New Orleans be an excuse to hate other people? What the fuck is with that, my friend? You think that some young idiot punks equate to an entire community of people? I just don't buy it.

Yes, there are black assholes. And there are white assholes too. And assholes from Asia and throughout the Americas. The Asshole Club is truly equal opportunity - you can have any color of skin, any sexual orientation, any belief system, be any age, either gender (or mix thereof) and still join.

But a group of young black assholes does not an entire community make. Or do you think that the young white assholes of Jena are proof that every white person is a hardened racist prick? It's the exact same logic.

MLK had it right all along. I don't give a damn what skin color you have. I care more about how you live your life.

What's really ironic is that by defending their rights (by which I assume you mean African Americans), you'd actually be defending your own as well. And by refusing to defend their rights, you're actually screwing yourself over just as much.

Like it or not, we're all in this together....

Peace

[coyotedude]

On a lighter (if sicker) note, I do think this whole discussion calls for a rendition of Tom Lehrer's "National Brotherhood Week":

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks
And the black folks hate the white folks
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule

But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clark
Are dancing cheek to cheek
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise
As long as you don't let 'em in your school

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks
And the rich folks hate the poor folks
All of my folks hate all of your folks
It's American as apple pie

But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans
'Cause it's very chic
Step up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand
You can tolerate him if you try

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Hindus hate the Moslems
And everybody hates the Jews

But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
It's National Everyone-Smile-At-
One-Another-hood Week
Be nice to people who
Are inferior to you
It's only for a week, so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

Yikes....

[Cesca]

A friend of mine and I were in London a couple of years ago and were attacked by a gang of white guys. Other white people walked by apparently blind to our plight. It was the actions of two black guys who saved us from a really bad beating or worse. Every race has its racists and every race has its saints. We were rescued by two men who were true saints of their race.

[darkeyes]

Echo that Ces.. wasn hurt or attacked as such but got off wiv a black guy in Manchester 1ce and we wer walkin down Deansgate 2 catch a train an got pestered by a rite buncha fascist racist arseholes... but we mite been. ganga big burly black railway guys ran ova an put the feara of holy shite inta the tossers...

[coyotedude]

Yeah, ya gotta watch those white guys.... they're trouble! ;)

(Only thing worse than a white guy is.... well.... a coyote!)

ARRROOOOOOOOO!

[darkeyes]

Coyote is a wolf innit?? sum wolf..yas nowt but a lil pussy cat...if ya wer a pussy who knows..ya mite jus b in wiv a chance ..tee hee:tong:

[Pinestraw]

Let's don't forget the victim in a rush to get on the racism issue. The black
teenager took part in the beating, and should be held accountable for his actions. It isn't his skin color, his raisin', his location that is being brought to
justice, it is his actions! Most groups of 6 teenagers, out on the town, are looking for or bound to get in trouble! Been that way long before the guy was born. Don't do the crime if you don't wanna do the time. String him up!!

[Skater Boy]

Don't do the crime if you don't wanna do the time. String him up!!

Yup, I think stringing ANYONE up in this case would be inappropriate. And its a bad choice of words, IMO. Perhaps a short length of time in a youth detention facility or some form of community service would teach ALL of the youths involved in this situation a valuable lesson.

[darkeyes]

Let's don't forget the victim in a rush to get on the racism issue. The black
teenager took part in the beating, and should be held accountable for his actions. It isn't his skin color, his raisin', his location that is being brought to
justice, it is his actions! Most groups of 6 teenagers, out on the town, are looking for or bound to get in trouble! Been that way long before the guy was born. Don't do the crime if you don't wanna do the time. String him up!!
Dus luff cliche ridden bollox wen its in print....

[12voltman59]

Well Adam in re Mr. Morris Dees and his organization--just because he is wealthy does not somehow lessen the fact that he has done some good work in the area of civil rights--why is it that if someone on the left is rich and lives very well--they get excoriated for that--and those on the right that run coporations and live like kings are some kind of hero or something?????????

Hell-if he was poor and doing stuff on a shoestring--he could not be as effective as he as been in the things he has done that have been, in my view for the most part has been positive and good for society--

Just because one is no the left side of the political and social dial does not mean one has to take a vow of poverty!!!!!

It was sure a good thing he and the SPLC was able to persuade a Federal judge to bankrupt that one major KKK group back a decade or so ago now---and that kinda took the wind out of the rest of the Klans sails at least for a time!!!

[AdamKadmon43]

Well Adam in re Mr. Morris Dees and his organization--just because he is wealthy does not somehow lessen the fact that he has done some good work in the area of civil rights

I suppose that ideally you are correct. Probably does not matter how much money you have nor how you happened to have gotten it as long as you do some "good".

I was just sort of curious as to where that other 31 million dollars went last year.

I suppose that we should also be willing to ignore the questionable tactics of all those tele-evangelists because they do some "good".

And we should just allow charitable organizations to engage in any sort of deceptive collection practices, and keep huge chunks of the loot just because they do some "good".

No, we should not do that anymore than we should allow those corporate kings (who also contribute millions of dollars to charities, which do some "good"), to get away with the greedy, unethical and questionably legal sorts of things that they do. And I am quite pleased to see that a great deal of them have been brought down lately.

Having done a good deal of (hopefully open-minded) research on this individual and his organization, I have made some very interesting discoveries. One of the most disturbing being their proclivity to "create" situations which do not really exist in order to find justification for fund-raising. What the hell are they doing with all that money?

And I am not the only one who questions it.

Dees's compensation alone amounts to one quarter the annual budget of the Atlanta-based Southern Center for Human Rights, which handles several dozen death-penalty cases a year. "You are a fraud and a conman," the Southern Center's director, Stephen Bright, wrote in a 1996 letter to Dees, and proceeded to list his many reasons for thinking so, which included "your failure to respond to the most desperate needs of the poor and powerless despite your millions upon millions, your fund-raising techniques, the fact that you spend so much, accomplish so little, and promote yourself so shamelessly."

All that having been said, I shall toss the question right back to you.... How come scoundrels on the left are any better than scoundrels on the right just because they do some "good"

Adam

[vittoria]

A friend of mine and I were in London a couple of years ago and were attacked by a gang of white guys. Other white people walked by apparently blind to our plight. It was the actions of two black guys who saved us from a really bad beating or worse. Every race has its racists and every race has its saints. We were rescued by two men who were true saints of their race.

Verily, especially if the race is human :)

(Now Vulcans are a different matter....)

[vittoria]

Let's don't forget the victim in a rush to get on the racism issue. The black
teenager took part in the beating, and should be held accountable for his actions. It isn't his skin color, his raisin', his location that is being brought to
justice, it is his actions! Most groups of 6 teenagers, out on the town, are looking for or bound to get in trouble! Been that way long before the guy was born. Don't do the crime if you don't wanna do the time. String him up!!

Jeez, hun, did you make those 3 nooses yourself?

"If youre gonna hang a man..."
Some Clint Eastwood anyone?

"String him up?"
This isnt cheese we're talking about here...

Strange fruit... hangin' from the poplar trees...

[12voltman59]

Well Adam-we could get into a pissing match on this subject--suffice it to say---for the most part--I like Morris Dees and the work he and his organizaton have done and you apparently do not--I am for any organization whether on the left or right that works to try to make things better in some fashion in this society---and not just be totally out to scam--

If Dees and his organization never do any more than what they did to derail the Klan-then they will have done some good---

As far as the Jena 6 situation is concerned--it still remains an open question about how it will all play out----

In cases like this--do some people play games on both sides in order to gain some perceived advantage--sure they do--but that does not diminish the fact that we do have a legal system that has some fundamental failings chief among them are racism and as I said before--"classism"--thanks to money being able to get one off a crime.

As Bill Maher just pointed out on his show a little bit ago--having money and some celebrity seemed to help Phil Spector beat the rap on a murder charge---

Final thoughts on this--today there is so much bullshit going on in our society from all quarters and on nearly ever topic imaginable that it is getting ever so hard to get your head above it and try to make sense of things----

[vittoria]

Oh, give me a fuckin' break....

You are not going to alter any attitudes over time. People's ability to get along with each other is inversely proportional to the differences between them. And, all things considered, I seriously doubt that is ever going to change. In fact, as the world gets smaller, and we all start to realize how much we really do hate each other, it probably gets more, and not less, difficult to change.

And it keeps getting easier to act upon all that hatred. It keeps getting easier to kill people that we do not like. Centuries ago, your ability to destroy the neighbors that you did not much care for was limited to your ability to ride over them on horseback and shoot them with spears and such. And then, later on, we got guns, and ships and tanks that we could spread about the world, and allow us to be a bit more efficent in dealing with all of our Nationalistic, or Territorial, or Religious ambitions. Now we have nuclear weapons which we are waiting to see who has the nerve to use first. Not to mention the fact that you can just get on an airplane in some third world country, and within 24 hours be anywhere on the planet doing all sorts of horrid things like crashing into buildings or spreading Anthrax or Ebola or something.

But, I digress:

Think about it....... Muslims hate Christians, and Christians are not overly fond of Muslims. Catholics and Protestants have battled it out for ages on the issue of "My version of God is better than your version of God", (althought I must admit that the people in Ireland seemed to have reached some sort of temporary compromise on all that, and have momentarily stopped killing each other over it). . Sunnis kill Shias and Shias kill Sunnis over something as ridiculous as who should have been the more legimate successor of the alleged Prophet. Look at the misery and the mess in Sudan and a great deal of other parts of Africa which are the direct result of ethnic differences. And in the good old US of A, we all pretend that we are getting along well when we would all actually very much like to be rid of each other. The slightest little incidence here between people of different races becomes a racial issue of momumental proportions.

And everyone hates the Jews. I am not exactly sure what they did, but it must have been something really horrid. Probably had something to do with that "Isaac" and "Ishmael" business.

Buddhists and Christian Science Practicioners are not quite so guilty of hating everyone else only because they consider themselves and everyone else to be not really here.

And you want to tell me about some sort of altering attitudes over time ???

Dream on Sunshine. If you believe that is ever gonna happen, you got your head parked much more firmly up your but than I can get mine. This world ain't gonna change much in the next few millenia, If it ever does at all, and I do not believe that we are ever going to "alter attitudes over time", no matter how much you and I would dearly love to.

All that having been said, I suppose that I should address the original purpose and intent of this thread, which I suppose was to be the unfairness of racism.

I was born and raised in Southeast Alabama.... I got my self into trouble with my bigoted, racist family because I defended the rights of all people to be treated equally without bias or prejudice. I truly believed in what someone that I respected very much had to say about that.... "Do not judge people by the color or their skin, but by the quality of their character"

Then I moved to New Orleans, and one night, I took a bus to work, and a group of young black dudes physically forced me to go sit in the back of the bus for the crime of having been white. So screw them.... I will not longer defend their rights....

I believe that I have said this before, but I think that it is worth repeating.... It is not about what is right or wrong.... It is not about what is good or just..... It is ultimately about who has control, who calls the shots, who has it their way.

People really do not much like each other and perhaps it would be best if we could all separate ourselves from each other into groups that we feel comfortable with. Even though I have not the slightest idea how one might go about doing that.

Adam


As mildly, but not completely suprised as I am about that comment, I shall say only this...

Find Doc Brown and his Delorean...

Get 1.21 gigawatts of electricity.... and some other bullshit
Get into it...

accelerate to 88 miles per hour after setting such time to the 1800s... the Civil War era, ,or even 1950s South...

And ENJOY!! Like a cool refreshing bottle of Coca~Cola :)
You'll feel right at home :)

Otherwise, I sincerely hope you find your Apartheid wherever you feel comfortable.... as long as they have a BI section that is :)

Be careful... you might get lynched with the rest of "us"...

Just a thought :)

Your friendly neighborhood Spiderman

[Azrael]

As mildly, but not completely suprised as I am about that comment, I shall say only this...

Find Doc Brown and his Delorean...

Get 1.21 gigawatts of electricity.... and some other bullshit
Get into it...

accelerate to 88 miles per hour after setting such time to the 1800s... the Civil War era, ,or even 1950s South...

And ENJOY!! Like a cool refreshing bottle of Coca~Cola :)
You'll feel right at home :)

Otherwise, I sincerely hope eyou find your Apartheid wherever you feel comfortable.... as long as they have a BI section that is :)

Be careful... you might get lynched with the rest of "us"...

Just a thought :)

Your friendly neighborhood Spiderman

That's not quite fair. Adam has a valid point he's making about figureheads like Morris Dees. The media loves people like him, who make big speeches with lots of important sounding words. The SPLC has done some good work, but their legal research team and office staff does most of the real work, while Mr. Dees sucks up all the glory. Am I saying he's a bad guy? Not really, just another human being. I'm from a family of lawyers. How you present yourself is CRITICAL. Just bear that in mind.
Did you read his whole post? The point here is racist/nationalistic bullshit is a HUMAN thing, not a black or white or brown thing. I don't share his view that it's hopeless, yet. I for one, plan to pull my share of the Karma.

-An ardent fan ov the A to the DAM

[vittoria]

The point here is racist/nationalistic bullshit is a HUMAN thing, not a black or white or brown thing. I don't share his view that it's hopeless, yet. I for one, plan to pull my share of the Karma.

-An ardent fan ov the A to the DAM

I noticed you added that last part on... good save

[Azrael]

I noticed you added that last part on... good save
'I don't share his view that it's hopeless, yet. I for one, plan to pull my share of the Karma. '
Yeah, this part.
Human nature can be bleak. I was too busy burning the pedestal out from under the Morris Dees's of the world to realize I strayed from my point.
You still haven't responded constructively.

[AdamKadmon43]

Believe me Vittoria, no one is much more painfully aware of the results of hatred and intolerance and injustice and bigotry than myself.

I was (more or less) forced to leave my home in Southeast Alabama about 20 years ago because they "FOUND OUT" about me. Queers and lesbians and bisexuals are not highly thought of in that part of the world..... I became an embarassment to my family, and I felt that my safety might even be in danger if I remained there.

I lived in New Orleans for a while because I thought that it would be more accepting of my way of life, but I soon discovered that was a place of intolerance of another sort. One of the (probably erronious) impressions that I came away from with there is that blacks seem to dislike whites much more than whites dislike blacks. Maybe they have good reasons to do so. I really do not know. But I suppose that is irrelevant right now.

Soooooooo ... I came to Colorado, and I have become quite comfortable here. It ain't exactly perfect but it is probably as good as it gets considering the time we live in.

It would have been very easy for me to become bitter and fanatical about things, and to join extreme causes ... marching off to stick it in their face and do everything in my power to get them out of my face. But I am not going to do that because I realize that it does not work. For one thing, I have matured enough to realize that such things are not going to get accomplished by rather well-intentioned, but rather mis-guided efforts. (like getting involved with questionable organizations such as the Southern Poverty Law Institute). That is not the answer... that is just contributing to the probagation of the problem.

I stick by my original premise that there is, ultimately, not a great deal of hope for humanity, but I would like to express my profound appreciation to all those of you who seem to think that, indeed, there is. And I applaude your efforts to try and make it come true.

Or maybe ...As Allen Ginzberg once said, "The world is a pile of shit and if you are going to move it at all, you have to do in small handfulls."

[chuck1124]

Its been some interesting reading. It seems my friends in this site have a variety of feelings and opinions and if we can all discuss them, UNemotionally and intelligently, then we are all on our way to ending racism and hatred. That is a big IF. The major problem with this situation in Jena Lousiana, is that no one, and I mean NO ONE, is giving the whole story, certainly not the major media. It takes a little digging. For those of you that have your blood pressure raise by all of this, well, you know how to use a computer, do a little research. There a lots of interesting things going on down there. These six are not being unfairly prosecuted.

[Skater Boy]

Its been some interesting reading. It seems my friends in this site have a variety of feelings and opinions and if we can all discuss them, UNemotionally and intelligently, then we are all on our way to ending racism and hatred. That is a big IF. The major problem with this situation in Jena Lousiana, is that no one, and I mean NO ONE, is giving the whole story, certainly not the major media. It takes a little digging. For those of you that have your blood pressure raise by all of this, well, you know how to use a computer, do a little research. There a lots of interesting things going on down there. These six are not being unfairly prosecuted.

I totally hear what you're saying, and agree with it. But the question here is more whether the white kids involved in this dispute should ALSO be held accountable for their actions, and why this hasn't happened so far.

[darkeyes]

WOW.. I was getting worried for a bit there. I thought that you were going to forget about the "We don't drown Witches anymore" part. Pretty much obligitory for the "things are getting better" crowd to mention that one

Seriously ..... I concede that in relatively recent times, some amounts of gains have been made against oppression. At least in some parts of Western culture. For much of the rest of the world, they fare little better in that arena now than they ever did...... And I trust that those gains will remain in place and continue to improve, but I suspect that the permanentcy of all that will depend upon who ultimately gets control.

But I WILL NOT concede that people's attitudes toward each other and their ability to get along with each other has much improved, at least not on a global scale. That being based on the empirical evidence that, at any given time, so many of them seem to be so intent upon killing each other.

But perhaps I should suspend my judgement on that pending the out-come of the Committee to Abolish Original Sin.

Adam
Well mayb aint quite wot me hopes for but ya has moved jus a smidge from ya original assertion... but actually me agrees wiv much of this... in fact the world is shite..an peeps r bein less than nice 2 each otha the world ova..but fact is in parts of the world huge strides hav an r bein made in improvin how we get along.. a century ago everybody hated everybody..now lotsa peeps jus hates sumbody..thats wot me calls progess...

We havta b optimistic babes...cos if we aint then progress cums 2 a shudderin halt an even goes inta reverse.. an fuk that for a game a soldiers.. long asya accept wot is, mite jus not always b..then thats progress 2..an we can all look ahead wiv sum confidence...

[AdamKadmon43]

Well mayb aint quite wot me hopes for but ya has moved jus a smidge from ya original assertion... but actually me agrees wiv much of this... in fact the world is shite..an peeps r bein less than nice 2 each otha the world ova..but fact is in parts of the world huge strides hav an r bein made in improvin how we get along.. a century ago everybody hated everybody..now lotsa peeps jus hates sumbody..thats wot me calls progess...

We havta b optimistic babes...cos if we aint then progress cums 2 a shudderin halt an even goes inta reverse.. an fuk that for a game a soldiers.. long asya accept wot is, mite jus not always b..then thats progress 2..an we can all look ahead wiv sum confidence...

Perhaps you are right ... and perhaps I should apologize for my negative and pessimistic attitudes.

But I have no intentions of doing so because I can not help it.... I was just born that way and there is nothing that I can do about it

So, there.

Tee Hee

Adam

[coyotedude]

Let's don't forget the victim in a rush to get on the racism issue. The black
teenager took part in the beating, and should be held accountable for his actions. It isn't his skin color, his raisin', his location that is being brought to
justice, it is his actions! Most groups of 6 teenagers, out on the town, are looking for or bound to get in trouble! Been that way long before the guy was born. Don't do the crime if you don't wanna do the time. String him up!!

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

"String him up"?

Comments like that are what make people think the South is a bunch of racist hicks. Which would make me mad as hell if I were a Southerner - being painted with that brush because of idiots like you.

I've known some damn fine people from North Carolina (not to mention the rest of the South). You obviously are not one of them.

[coyotedude]

I should clarify one thing:

There is no question in my mind that the 6 young men who beat the crap out of the other young man should be held accountable for their actions. What they did was wrong.

But tell me this: If these young men had been white - or if they had lived somewhere else - or if they had been rich - would an attempted murder charge have been filed given the circumstances of this case? Would the prosecutor have tried to claim a tennis shoe as a lethal weapon to ensure life in prison, even though the victim was not killed - in fact, the victim recovered well enough to attend some social event the same evening?

No.

When white kids were beating the hell out of black kids, did the prosecutor try to put the perpetrators behind bars for the rest of their lives?

No.

I'm all for holding these young men accountable. But that's not what is happening in Jena.

Justice is color-blind. Justice would treat black kids and white kids equally and fairly. But that's not what's happening in Jena.

The two differences between justice and vengeance are (1) fairness and (2) mercy. Neither fairness nor mercy are happening in Jena.

Yes, hold the young men accountable.

But do it fairly. Impartially. And let the punishment actually fit the crime, rather than being so over the top as to be laughable - if it weren't so pathetic.

Peace

[AdamKadmon43]

Neither fairness nor mercy are happening in Jena.
Peace

Nor much of anywhere else in the world just in case you have not managed to notice.

Adam

[darkeyes]

Perhaps you are right ... and perhaps I should apologize for my negative and pessimistic attitudes.

But I have no intentions of doing so because I can not help it.... I was just born that way and there is nothing that I can do about it

So, there.

Tee Hee

Adam
Don apologise..ya r wotya r..jus stop bein it!!!:bigrin:

So ther:tong: tee hee

[vittoria]

'I don't share his view that it's hopeless, yet. I for one, plan to pull my share of the Karma. '
Yeah, this part.
Human nature can be bleak. I was too busy burning the pedestal out from under the Morris Dees's of the world to realize I strayed from my point.
You still haven't responded constructively.


Destrucitve criticism is equally poignant as constructive...

one has to destroy the raggedy house to construct a new one...

and convoluted thoughts, theorems, and ideas that have no basis in human peace, harmony, and comraderie are what destroys so many lives, hurts many people's feelings, the source of wars, jealousies and strife.

Seems like someone got offended that I mentioned the word APARTHEID...

Dont blame me, blame the sorry sots that are separatist bastages that want disunity---unite a people (race be damned) and its a strong force...divide a people for colors' sake, opinions' sake, and personal vendettas and it fits into the realm of social Apartheid...

Seems like the house is raggedy---

and a demolition is in order. This is a view of the world WE live in... just ONE view... and dictating (dick-tating) terms of basically (to paraphrase) 'go create your own message board to fit YOUR world view' shows exactly how much more time is needed for maturity...no need for a temper tantrum :)

A little Faux Snooze (Fixed News...FOX Noise...FOX News) anyone?

Its sad to see how people who are friends to me, acquaintances, kinsmen, even in this bi community are so hateful, vengeful, and racist---yet when it comes time to stand up for their own beliefs of bisexual freedom they want people to take their side and not be prejudiced against themselves. Let a topic come up about a mishandling of the law that was CLEARLY race oriented from the first time nooses were placed on display...WATCH THE FUR FLY!!! See who your true "friends" are ! Be AMAZED!!!

Is it really a case of 'who has more right to speak their peace'? Or is it just a kick in the nuts (or in the ass for those sans nuts) to see the mirror of racist intent placed in front of the face--and be called on it?

Very humbling indeed, especially to put down a man that at least tried to work for equality...from dealing with the Klan, to integration--i think the world can do with one less Nazi party... hell they hate bisexuals as much as they hate black people, Hebrews, and anyone else....

"Dees' tactics and legal actions against racial nationalist groups have made him a target of criticism from many of these organizations. He has received numerous death threats from these groups, and a number of their web sites make strong accusations against him and the Southern Poverty Law Center."

'A target of criticism from many of these organizations.' Wow. I guess I know where I stand with MANY of you ( my fellow American bisexuals) who hate his work... seeing that I'm a woman of some natural tan and all....

Mores the pity ....

[Azrael]

Never said I hated Dees, I just don't think he's infallible.
I'm not a racist, despite what you may think.
Not all people who believe in segregation are evil. I don't myself, but that's a different rant.
Dick-tating? Are you implying I'm somehow sexist on top of it all?
Or are you taking shots at me because you're irked about something totally outside the context of this argument?
Not everything is a race issue.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is vile, impure or unclean.
Public figures like Dees are subject to public scrutiny, like it or not.
I am not racist, but I am used to being accused as such.
Some folks can't stand the idea of a meritocracy.
Don't think you can deconstruct me with a single venomous idea.
You're smarter than this.
The only reason I stepped in to this volatile discussion is that I don't think you were being fair to adam. I've spoken my peace, and now I'm moving on.

I don't really give two shits what you think. I was raised by my mom and sister, I've dated black men and puerto rican girls, and I do my part to pick apart what I consider single issue chicken shit arguments that skirt the issues. I am not trying to be incendiary or inflammatory, so please don't misconstrue. Do I think this case is grossly unfair? Sure. But these people DID commit a crime.

As our good friend Lani K. says, 'I AM MORE THAN WHAT YOU SEE'.

[darkeyes]

oooo V... welcum bak me luffly..... its been weeks since we had owt 2 reelly get our teeth inta...summa funny season is ova..bout time we cut down on numba of silly games an talk issues!!! Me been sayin house is a fukkin mess alla me life an needs knockin down an a new home built! God me dus luffya V!!!:tong:

[vittoria]

Never said I hated Dees, I just don't think he's infallible.
I'm not a racist, despite what you may think.
Not all people who believe in segregation are evil. I don't myself, but that's a different rant.
Dick-tating? Are you implying I'm somehow sexist on top of it all?
Or are you taking shots at me because you're irked about something totally outside the context of this argument?
Not everything is a race issue.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is vile, impure or unclean.
Public figures like Dees are subject to public scrutiny, like it or not.
I am not racist, but I am used to being accused as such.
Some folks can't stand the idea of a meritocracy.
Don't think you can deconstruct me with a single venomous idea.
You're smarter than this.
The only reason I stepped in to this volatile discussion is that I don't think you were being fair to adam. I've spoken my peace, and now I'm moving on.

I don't really give two shits what you think. I was raised by my mom and sister, I've dated black men and puerto rican girls, and I do my part to pick apart what I consider single issue chicken shit arguments that skirt the issues. I am not trying to be incendiary or inflammatory, so please don't misconstrue. Do I think this case is grossly unfair? Sure. But these people DID commit a crime.

As our good friend Lani K. says, 'I AM MORE THAN WHAT YOU SEE'.

I believe this posting was called "Jena 6" not banter about Azrael...but I'll indulge... for a moment :)

"I was too busy burning the pedestal out from under the Morris Dees's of the world"---This draws attention away from the topic at hand... racism in America and the Jena 6.

"don't like the edit function? go start your own message board for people who fit YOUR worldview."--Pompous arrogance.

"Don't think you can deconstruct me with a single venomous idea.
You're smarter than this."-- This post is not about YOU...like was aforementioned... its about the Jena 6..not product placement or personal agendas. I believe what I said was "Destrucitve criticism is equally poignant as constructive...
one has to destroy the raggedy house to construct a new one..." From the school I went to, that's called an 'illustration'...not a personal jab---and I believe that statement ALSO gives EQUAL GROUND to destructive AND constructive criticism... both being important but again, taken personal, and NOTHING venomous in it.

The only personal thing actually was, "Or are you taking shots at me because you're irked about something totally outside the context of this argument"--which was said by YOU Azrael, NOT me.

And for all those who are able to read, NOWHERE did I call anyone vile, impure, or unclean. I believe what I said was..."Dont blame me, blame the sorry sots that are separatist bastages that want disunity---unite a people (race be damned) and its a strong force...divide a people for colors' sake, opinions' sake, and personal vendettas and it fits into the realm of social Apartheid..." and "convoluted thoughts, theorems, and ideas that have no basis in human peace, harmony, and comraderie are what destroys so many lives, hurts many people's feelings, the source of wars, jealousies and strife."
If youre going to quote me, make certain you actually do it before getting your panties in a bunch :)

"I don't really give two shits what you think."--Gee, seems personal to me... but wait.. I didnt say that did I? But honestly, my sentiments exactly.

And as for "dick-tating"? Oh dont tell me a bit of literary education is in order! (Gee those College courses come in handy from time to time!!) Let's get some help from Wikipedia on a definition of
"Wordplay":

'Word play is a literary and narrative technique in which the nature of the words used themselves become part of the subject of the work. Puns, phonetic mixups such as spoonerisms, obscure words and meanings, clever rhetorical excursions, oddly formed sentences, and telling character names are common examples of word play.

Word play is quite common in oral cultures as a method of reinforcing meaning.

Interestingly enough, strictly visual orthographic word play is much less predominant than sound-based word play in alphabetically written literatures. This may be due to the fundamental orality of written communication in those literatures, as compared with word play in ideographically written literatures such as the Chinese.'

"I've dated black men and puerto rican girls"--Great :) But can you tell me what that has to do with BEING black or puerto rican? Can you experience the crap that people of color have to deal with on a daily basis...their fault or not? Situations based on stereotypes? You can tan all day and still not have to worry about it. Thats as bad as people who say " I have black friends !" but can count them on one hand and call persons of color "n****rs' behind their backs.

Intelligent palaver has to have a basis in experience, and quite frankly, dating a person of color and enduring the BS that persons of color have to endure on a daily basis are WAY different scenarios, and should not be confused for one and the same.

The best way to defend oneself in a battle of wits is to not bring other people into it (ie friends, family, etc)--Youre an adult, defend your damn self.(Now THAT was personal!)


tsk tsk !!
:)


BTW darkeyes... ty for the heartfelt welcome back-- I have truly missed your intelligence!

kisses! :tong:

[12voltman59]

There is some breaking news in terms of the situation down in Jena--one of the other black boys (I use the term "boy" not in that nasty racial way but simply because he is a minor/juvenile) who was involved in the assault has been sentenced to 18 months in jail--both for his part in the attack and for the fact that he violated the conditions of a probation from a previous case--in this case--he was convicted of simple assault and battery---a much better charge than attempted murder.

Of course--Al Sharpton had to open his yap and claim that the sentence was retribution for contesting the charges, which is just another of Al's dumb statements---

As a former probation officer--on any case that I had when one of my "clients" picked up a new case that he or she had assaulted someone--I, along with the prosecutor, would recommended to the judge that the person get the maximum sentence on the new charge and serve whatever time they still had coming to them on the original charge--hopefully with both sentences served consecutively and not concurrently.

An 18 months jail sentence in this instance is a just and proper sentence.

[vittoria]

sweet deal

any kind of justice is better than "just us"

and btw...

al sharpton and jj evans ( oops... wrong person DYNO MITE!!)i mean jesse jackson are NOT the saving grace of Americans of slave descent...one would be suprised how EMBARRASSING they are to many in this country who are persons of color....

I mean damn they REALLY dont have to put their stamp of approval on EVERYTHING.... its like a peter and the wolf scenario...

hell, when i see them on t.v. its a roll of the eyes...isnt the age of the militant black over? or did they forget what MLKjr was trying to do? he wasnt trying to make a name for himself because he was a "black preacher"...but unfortunately, opportunistic humans like them just add more fuel to the stereotype fire....

tsk tsk !!
:)

[Azrael]

I believe this posting was called "Jena 6" not banter about Azrael...but I'll indulge... for a moment :)

"I was too busy burning the pedestal out from under the Morris Dees's of the world"---This draws attention away from the topic at hand... racism in America and the Jena 6.
Fair enough, although I was backing someone up on a worthy point that is frequently ignored.


"don't like the edit function? go start your own message board for people who fit YOUR worldview."--Pompous arrogance.
Whatever. You made it look like I pulled some sort of bait and switch shit. I set the record str8. I was making the point that everyone here has the right to disagree with you, however holy a gospel you may believe yourself to preach.


"Don't think you can deconstruct me with a single venomous idea.
You're smarter than this."-- This post is not about YOU...like was aforementioned... its about the Jena 6..not product placement or personal agendas. I believe what I said was "Destrucitve criticism is equally poignant as constructive...
one has to destroy the raggedy house to construct a new one..." From the school I went to, that's called an 'illustration'...not a personal jab---and I believe that statement ALSO gives EQUAL GROUND to destructive AND constructive criticism... both being important but again, taken personal, and NOTHING venomous in it.
Again, whatever you say. Your tone is rather snide and holier than thou, but I'll let that slide.


The only personal thing actually was, "Or are you taking shots at me because you're irked about something totally outside the context of this argument"--which was said by YOU Azrael, NOT me.
Thank you. I have no idea what I say one day to the next :rolleyes:
You know of which I speak, but if you wanna nail yourself to your little cross, be my guest. I'll even light a little votive for you.


And for all those who are able to read, NOWHERE did I call anyone vile, impure, or unclean. I believe what I said was..."Dont blame me, blame the sorry sots that are separatist bastages that want disunity---unite a people (race be damned) and its a strong force...divide a people for colors' sake, opinions' sake, and personal vendettas and it fits into the realm of social Apartheid..." and "convoluted thoughts, theorems, and ideas that have no basis in human peace, harmony, and comraderie are what destroys so many lives, hurts many people's feelings, the source of wars, jealousies and strife."
If youre going to quote me, make certain you actually do it before getting your panties in a bunch :)
Touche. I still think what you said to Adam wasn't cool. He's horribly taken out of context most of the time, but screw it, it doesn't really matter now.


"I don't really give two shits what you think."--Gee, seems personal to me... but wait.. I didnt say that did I? But honestly, my sentiments exactly.

And as for "dick-tating"? Oh dont tell me a bit of literary education is in order! (Gee those College courses come in handy from time to time!!) Let's get some help from Wikipedia on a definition of
"Wordplay":

'Word play is a literary and narrative technique in which the nature of the words used themselves become part of the subject of the work. Puns, phonetic mixups such as spoonerisms, obscure words and meanings, clever rhetorical excursions, oddly formed sentences, and telling character names are common examples of word play.

Word play is quite common in oral cultures as a method of reinforcing meaning.

Interestingly enough, strictly visual orthographic word play is much less predominant than sound-based word play in alphabetically written literatures. This may be due to the fundamental orality of written communication in those literatures, as compared with word play in ideographically written literatures such as the Chinese.'
Congratulations. You've taken some critical thinking classes. I can look stuff up on the wiki too.


"I've dated black men and puerto rican girls"--Great :) But can you tell me what that has to do with BEING black or puerto rican? Can you experience the crap that people of color have to deal with on a daily basis...their fault or not? Situations based on stereotypes? You can tan all day and still not have to worry about it. Thats as bad as people who say " I have black friends !" but can count them on one hand and call persons of color "n****rs' behind their backs.
You know me a lot better than this, and I'm offended by the implication you make.



Intelligent palaver has to have a basis in experience, and quite frankly, dating a person of color and enduring the BS that persons of color have to endure on a daily basis are WAY different scenarios, and should not be confused for one and the same.

The best way to defend oneself in a battle of wits is to not bring other people into it (ie friends, family, etc)--Youre an adult, defend your damn self.(Now THAT was personal!)


tsk tsk !!
:)

kisses! :tong:

I have my own shit I worry about every day. I can relate. If anyone thinks I'm off my meds I can get locked up for no reason. I'm terrified of getting my face stomped in by redneck homophobes where I live. I didn't realize we were having a battle here, I'm just talking. Chill.
In fact, this is way out of character for me, but I'm just gonna roll a spliff and drop the whole thing. Highly recommended :bigrin:

[vittoria]

Such a reversal from "I dont really give a shit what you think"...

as for "Your tone is rather snide and holier than thou, but I'll let that slide.."

ahh resorting to name calling is the vice of youth...Bucking against constructive, intelligent responses are counter productive, once again proving the point personal attacks are pointless, and detract from the topic at hand.. something referred to in military manuevers as "evasive action"--

"I set the record str8. I was making the point that everyone here has the right to disagree with you, however holy a gospel you may believe yourself to preach."

Seems as if someone needs to take their own advice---I disagreed with YOU, and apparently it was deemed a crime to do so--see the definition of "pompous" in Merriam-Webster's Dictionary:

" Main Entry: pomp·ous
Pronunciation: \ˈpäm-pəs\
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : excessively elevated or ornate <pompous rhetoric>
2 : having or exhibiting self-importance : arrogant <a pompous politician>
3 : relating to or suggestive of pomp : magnificent
— pomp·ous·ly adverb
— pomp·ous·ness noun "

hmm...defintion #2 seems appropriate ie. the case of the comment: "don't like the edit function? go start your own message board for people who fit YOUR worldview." Not once did I state that my alleged 'worldview' was the only one...therefore the commentary I replied with: "This is a view of the world WE live in... just ONE view.." acknowledging that my opinion is not the only one...

"Is it really a case of 'who has more right to speak their peace'?" Seems so. It must bother some people to not be the only one with a rational thought;
having a point of view doesnt make it a 'gospel', its a different way of looking at things..."Everyone here has the right to disagree with you, however holy a gospel you may believe yourself to preach"--no one said anything about 'holiness'--once again placing words on a screen that was neither implied nor endorsed by what I was stating...


"You know of which I speak, but if you wanna nail yourself to your little cross, be my guest. I'll even light a little votive for you"--heh. How patronizing---and condescending as well:

"Main Entry: pa·tron·ize
Pronunciation: \ˈpā-trə-ˌnīz, ˈpa-\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): pa·tron·ized; pa·tron·iz·ing
Date: 1589
(relevant defiinition)
2 : to adopt an air of condescension toward : treat haughtily or coolly

Yes, I get nailed happily by my BF daily and nightly... and not to a cross either... advice
to you: "Get off the cross honey... someone else needs the wood"(Straight Talk starring Dolly Parton) Just because I dont have a cynical world view doesnt make me wrong... once again different:

"Main Entry: cyn·i·cal
Pronunciation: \ˈsi-ni-kəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1542
1: captious, peevish
2: having or showing the attitude or temper of a cynic: as a: contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives <those cynical men who say that democracy cannot be honest and efficient — F. D. Roosevelt> b: based on or reflecting a belief that human conduct is motivated primarily by self-interest <a cynical ploy to cheat customers>
— cyn·i·cal·ly \-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
synonyms cynical, misanthropic, pessimistic mean deeply distrustful. cynical implies having a sneering disbelief in sincerity or integrity <cynical about politicians' motives>. misanthropic suggests a rooted distrust and dislike of human beings and their society <a solitary and misanthropic artist>. pessimistic implies having a gloomy, distrustful view of life <pessimistic about the future>.

1) I dont know of "which you speak"

2) The song is called "this little light of MINE...I'm gonna let it SHINE"--therefore I'm already bright without you..and dont need your permission ty very much:

"Main Entry: 1bright
Pronunciation: \ˈbrīt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English beorht; akin to Old High German beraht bright, Sanskrit bhrājate it shines
Date: before 12th century
1 a: radiating or reflecting light : shining, sparkling <bright lights> <bright eyes> b: sunny <a bright day>; also : radiant with happiness <bright smiling faces> <bright moments>
2: illustrious, glorious <brightest star of the opera>
3: beautiful
4: of high saturation or lightness <bright colors>
5 a: lively, cheerful <be bright and jovial among your guests — Shakespeare> b: intelligent, clever <a bright idea> <bright children>
6: auspicious, promising <bright prospects for the future>
— bright adverb
— bright·ly adverb"


"Congratulations. You've taken some critical thinking classes. I can look stuff up on the wiki too."

Heh. "Critical thinking classes". No, life experience works wonders; and theres a big difference between a blinding flash of the obvious(intelligence) and an incessant need to, in the Shakespearean sense, "spit poniards".

Well, if you are capable of looking up stuff on the Wikipedia, the comment:
"Dick-tating? Are you implying I'm somehow sexist on top of it all?", one would imagine that a bit of facetiousness on your part was in order.

"Main Entry: fa·ce·tious
Pronunciation: \fə-ˈsē-shəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French facetieux, from facetie jest, from Latin facetia
Date: 1599
1 : joking or jesting often inappropriately : waggish <just being facetious>
2 : meant to be humorous or funny : not serious <a facetious remark> "

And as for offense... wait... you're young yet. Once you get my age, one realizes that pride is a dangerous thing--vanity and pride begets offense; one can not like what someone says and not be offended. That comes with maturity as well :)

Life is a learning experience, and we ALL have a lot to learn about living and coping with each other regardless of differences on this planet (of which we ALL are human, obviously--as Fran's statement quotation reads:'Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.'

"The only reason I stepped in to this volatile discussion is that I don't think you were being fair to adam."

He was quite able to speak (type) for himself (see entry #59..it was directed to me), which was his reply to me, and I accepted that with no problem. There are a few persons on here that have disagreed with Adam ( and he has a right to his opinion), and I didnt see you go rallying to his aid with any of them, so therefore since you have obviously harped on me about this for this long, apparently YOU are taking this personally--with sarcastic 'highfalutin' comments (of which you are free to make.. as Drew states in the posting rules AKA the "Four Commandments of Bisexual.com Forum": "Have fun. Learn. Share. Entertain. Discuss. Argue. Enlighten." :) ) at which point I have to 'defend' my right to say my opinion with, not condescending overtones, but with an educated outlook with the hopes that a logical repartee will breed learning and understanding. :) No soapbox, just life experience. Theres wisdom in greyheadedness (since some have been waxing Biblical lately ie. 'holier than thou'; 'gospel'; 'cross'; 'preach'.) And this wasnt a volatile discussion until you stepped in...as my BF observed in this fascinating tirade, to quote, "He (Azrael) just wanted to be an asshole." His words, not mine :)


I agree with 12Voltman. (And he's older than both of us)

And on that note (LA! :tong:)...

Here's a few David Bowie songs to dazzle the mind :) He did, after all, donate $10,000 to the Jena Six attorney fund to help allay the financial strain of affording lawyers so that justice could be done. No one said the kids werent deserving of some kind of punishment. But being charged with attempted murder is different. School fights happen all the time, and no one gets put in jail for eternity for fighting if the 'weapon' was a Trapper Keeper or for 'playing the dozens'. :2cents:

;)

" Ashes to Ashes":

"I never done good things
I never done bad things
I never did anything out of the blue, woh-o-oh
Want an axe to break the ice
Wanna come down right now

Ashes to ashes, funk to funky
We know major toms a junkie
Strung out in heavens high
Hitting an all-time low

My mother said to get things done
Youd better not mess with major tom"

(And I've been getting things done, too, which is why I dont mess with "Major Tom" ..better things to do :) )


or the words of David Bowie's song "Up the Hill Backwards":

"The vacuum created by the arrival of freedom
And the possibilities it seems to offer
It's got nothing to do with you, if one can grasp it
It's got nothing to do with you, if one can grasp it"

or even in the song "Breaking Glass" by the same artist:

"You're such a wonderful person
But you got problems oh-oh-oh-oh
I'll never touch you"

or even in the song "Station to Station":

"Should I believe that I've been stricken?
Does my face show some kind of glow?
It's too late - to be grateful
It's too late - to be late again
It's too late - to be hateful"


or even "Kingdom Come" by the same artist:

"Well the river's so muddy, but it may come clear
And I know too well what's keeping me here
I'm just the slave of a burning ray
Oh give me the night, I can't take another sight
Please, please give me the night

Well I'll be breaking these rocks
And cutting this hay
Yes I'll be breaking these rocks
What's my price to pay

Sun keeps beating down on me, wall's a mile high
Up in the tower they're watching me hoping I'm gonna die

I won't be breaking no rocks
When the kingdom comes"

[coyotedude]

Nor much of anywhere else in the world just in case you have not managed to notice.

Adam

I would agree with you there. And yes indeed, I notice it on nearly a daily basis.

Does this mean we agree on two things, Adam? I don't know if the world can handle that!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Peace

[coyotedude]

One other note:

I personally don't like Al Sharpton, and Jesse is a major disappointment to me. All too often, they put their own egos ahead of the interests of the community they purport to represent. Which of course does more harm than help in the long run.

What I find ironic, however, is that even had they been saints, they'd still have become the white man's favorite scapegoats and whipping boys. In fact, many whites would hate Al and Jesse even more, because the two would be more effective if they'd checked their egos at the door.

After all, why should we take personal responsibility for our own biases when we can simply accuse Al and Jesse of stirring up trouble?

Thoughts?

Peace

[Sarasvati]

As a bystander in this unfortunate Vittoria/Azrael dispute I really feel you, Vittoria, have attacked Azrael unfairly.

I can't see anything unreasonable in his statements. He thought this character Morris Dee deserved some critical scrutiny and that is not a reasonable ground for your verbal assault on Azrael. He doesn't seem to me to display any racist tendency. You seem determined to convict him regardless.

And your poorly thought out words, "one has to destroy a raggedy house in order to construct a new one" can certainly be read as threatening.

It does not follow that in order for a new house to be built a previous one must be destroyed. That relationship is without foundation and the house upon which you build your arguments IS thus in serious danger of becoming rickety and floundering (by the way, that's wordplay).

Additionally, the so called equal division of yours between destructive and constructive criticism is simply a nonsensical irrationality. Why? Because constructive criticism is already a concept of sufficient elasticity to include the idea of destruction within its definition. Your edifice crumbles faster (more wordplay).

Indeed I am giving you constructive criticism right now and as you can see that involves, at least in part, some knocking down of your written statements.

Our French friends, of course, "destroyed a raggedy house in order to build a new one" back in 1789. I will leave it to individual opinion as to whether that was a good decision. But before proceeding with your ideas I really think you should research that episode of history - it is pivotal to everything that has happened since in social history, even in America.

The USA was itself a "new house". Yet it needed not the destruction of Britain to be constructed (nor the American Indians or anyone else). You are collapsed now I think. The USA, as an example, emerged through evolution rather than revolution.

Your choice of phrase Vittoria suggests revolution and is thus threatening and appears to hit out indiscriminately.

Azrael seems to be just one undeserving victim of those punches.

Perhaps you don't intend this interpretation Vittoria. But then you haven't thought your ideas through properly. That is particularly obvious with your reference to wordplay in relation to your "dick-tating" jibe. That blatantly sexist insult shows you haven't bothered to read your own words.

For my part, I do sympathise with Vittoria's rather unbalanced passion, considering the abysmal history of injustice with which American/European culture has subjected the African originating world.

But the cause of progress is set back when reasonable people are attacked merely for expressing their point of view.

I am sorry I have felt the need to have a go at your comments Vittoria and I am sure you and DE will be sharpening your knives in readiness to unman me.

But before you do please reflect a little on your own erections.

[AdamKadmon43]

I would agree with you there. And yes indeed, I notice it on nearly a daily basis.

Does this mean we agree on two things, Adam? I don't know if the world can handle that!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Peace

You have made me smile.

Maybe there is some hope for the world after all.

[vittoria]

"Ain't nothin' gonna to break my stride
Nobody's gonna slow me down, oh-no
I got to keep on movin'
Ain't nothin' gonna break my stride
I'm running and I won't touch ground
Oh-no, I got to keep on movin'

You're on a roll and now you pray it lasts
The road behind was rocky
But now you're feeling cocky
You look at me and you see your past"--Matthew Wilder

"Sep 25, 2007 , 5:26 PM
Sarasvati
Raunchy reptilian - eat you alive!!

UK and Ireland, UK - London Area



Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 473 Welcome

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just welcoming you - nice to have you here on this site. Hope to hear more from you"

Guess you need to take that back :)


Everyone is entitled to their opinions. That is their right as individuals. And everyone has a right to freely express those opinions; truth is in the eye of the beholder as is anything else.

"But the cause of progress is set back when reasonable people are attacked merely for expressing their point of view."~~Sarasvati

Yes, just as you have attacked me for mine, eh?



Cheers :)

In other news, Coyotedude, you make a good point. Personal responsibility takes the back seat when theres someone to blame. I suppose some people find it easier not take an active part in their surroundings... to wax Biblical: " there are those who exist because they like to have their ears tickled"

;)

[coyotedude]

"there are those who exist because they like to have their ears tickled"

;)

Hey, I like my ears tickled! But then, I am a coyote....

Peace

[coyotedude]

You have made me smile.

Maybe there is some hope for the world after all.

AAAIGH! Don't tell Fran!

[vittoria]

American history has something called the
American REVOLUTION

French history has the
French REVOLUTION.....

now how people feel about those 2 points in history is up to them. And a lot of scholars will heartily disagree... considering the meaning of the word "revolution"---

And in regards to the phrase "You are collapsed now I think"... umm.. no.
Anyone that lives in a city knows well enough any home in disrepair, boarded up and wasted will be, either by power of the city or the owner of the property, torn down and a new home put in its place. (Unless through the powers of imminent domain, people are put out of their homes and a mini mall built...) Those are just facts of life. Apartheid was a "raggedy house". Revolution changed that. Get enough people to get tired of the BS and yes, people WILL revolt. That is just the basic history of nations around the world.

But ONCE AGAIN this detracts from the topic of the Jena 6 and places it on a personal level. So lets return to that :)

(my my what random thoughts there are today :) )

12Voltman, thank you for the informed update on the situation at hand... Appreciate it :)

[coyotedude]

American history has something called the
American REVOLUTION

French history has the
French REVOLUTION.....

now how people feel about those 2 points in history is up to them. And a lot of scholars will heartily disagree... considering the meaning of the word "revolution"---

And in regards to the phrase "You are collapsed now I think"... umm.. no.
Anyone that lives in a city knows well enough any home in disrepair, boarded up and wasted will be, either by power of the city or the owner of the property, torn down and a new home put in its place. (Unless through the powers of imminent domain, people are put out of their homes and a mini mall built...) Those are just facts of life. Apartheid was a "raggedy house". Revolution changed that. Get enough people to get tired of the BS and yes, people WILL revolt. That is just the basic history of nations around the world.

But ONCE AGAIN this detracts from the topic of the Jena 6 and places it on a personal level. So lets return to that :)

(my my what random thoughts there are today :) )

12Voltman, thank you for the informed update on the situation at hand... Appreciate it :)

If I remember my American history correctly, Thomas Jefferson would have offered a similar argument, V. You can read it throughout his writings.

Although he was a slave-owning bastard....

Peace

[vittoria]

If I remember my American history correctly, Thomas Jefferson would have offered a similar argument, V. You can read it throughout his writings.

Although he was a slave-owning bastard....

Peace

;) :cool:


:three:

[Azrael]

You do know what I'm talking about.
It's quite obvious that I'm not going to achieve even the most relative peace here.
Fuck it. So I failed, again. I don't care.

You remind me of myself when I was unmedicated. I wonder why.
Don't plead ignorance, it doesn't become you.


FREE THE WEST MEMPHIS THREE!!!!

[vittoria]

"You remind me of myself when I was unmedicated. I wonder why."
(Maybe because you were out of w**d)

"Don't plead ignorance, it doesn't become you."

Who's pleading? Ignorance can be a blissful SOB, but my bliss is with job, my home, the man that I love--and I dont think he would "cotton" too well to being called ignorant.:yikes2: I would beg to differ, but it is begging that doesnt become me, so I'll just differ thanks :)

You remind me of myself when I was a child.

" When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man (or woman in this case), I have done away with the [traits] of a babe, in order that we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error. But speaking the truth, let us by love grow up in all things."~~Saul HaTarsi( Saul of Tarsus aka Apostle Paul)

Shalom :)

[Azrael]

"You remind me of myself when I was unmedicated. I wonder why."
(Maybe cause you were out of w**d)
"Don't plead ignorance, it doesn't become you."

Who's pleading? Ignorance can be a blissful SOB, but my bliss is with job, my home, the man that I love--and I dont think he would "cotton" too well to being called ignorant.:yikes2: I would beg to differ, but it is begging that doesnt become me, so I'll just differ thanks :)

You remind me of myself when I was a child.

" When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man(or woman in this case), I have done away with the [traits] of a babe, in order that we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error. But speaking the truth, let us by love grow up in all things."~~Saul HaTarsi( Saul of Tarsus aka Apostle Paul)

Shalom :)

Jesus Christ. That's really fucking low of you. You are truly sick.
You went from talking to me everyday, to disappearing for three months, to lecturing ME about the need to grow?!?!?!?!?
Me thinks I better go smoke the rest of that J.
Yes, the Apostle Paul did a lovely Job of regurgitating Corinthians 1 for an overly moralistic lecture which you are currently attempting to extrapolate.
I don't mean weed you insensitive shrew. I remember what you used to tell me about your own problems. I'm not exposing anything. I used to think you were deep. You're just insane. That's from a person in the Schizophrenic dose range of Seroquel.

I'm not going for any low blows here. But the way you're acting toward me is kinda fucked up, and I won't stand for it. You have an ulterior motive here, well outside this dispute about the jena 6. U got something to say to me, call my cell or email me. Quit wasting forum space to grand-stand.

[vittoria]

Jesus Christ. That's really fucking low of you. You are truly sick.
You went from talking to me everyday, to disappearing for three months, to lecturing ME about the need to grow?!?!?!?!?
Me thinks I better go smoke the rest of that J.
Yes, the Apostle Paul did a lovely Job of regurgitating Corinthians 1 for an overly moralistic lecture which you are currently attempting to extrapolate.
I don't mean weed you insensitive shrew. I remember what you used to tell me about your own problems. I'm not exposing anything. I used to think you were deep. You're just insane. That's from a person in the Schizophrenic dose range of Seroquel.

I'm not going for any low blows here. But the way you're acting toward me is kinda fucked up, and I won't stand for it. You have an ulterior motive here, well outside this dispute about the jena 6. U got something to say to me, call my cell or email me. Quit wasting forum space to grand-stand.

If I do recall I told you I was out of town for a few months. And that I was. After the nasty cellphone messages from you, the nasty emails I received from you, to let you know that I was busy moving and so forth, and you want to call me an insensitive shrew.

And no. There is no waste of forum time. This was a simple forum where people were free to debate, discuss, enlighten, argue if they will and want. This was a topic about the Jena 6, not about you, which needed to be consistently reminded. But the personal stabs had to be answered, and I answered them in a clear and concise fashion---just to have more personal stabs--at which point, I have to go with what I have learned... which is the ability to be better than I was a child... and grow and learn from it. Just a moment to share :)

No ulterior motives. You just had to keep going.

Heck Paul was basically saying "there comes a point in time when you just have to grow up."

When I had my birthday a lot of things happened to change my life... I realized the need to GROW..not stagnate, spread some wings... and so I did :) And feel better for it.


And for someone who says "I dont give a sh*t" and "I dont care" it seems that you do, or else you wouldnt keep going on and on about whatever is the root of your problem.

I'm glad you got it out of your system :)

And again with the name calling. Insane? No, just happy with my personal state of affairs. You arent the only one I havent talked to in 3 months... and its very self centered of you to think that you are. There were those here who were happy to see me. Pity you were not one of them.

Since you brought that up (you mean you couldnt have asked me in a private message or an email yourself... and say I grandstand ! :) )... I had to answer that.

I wont stand for someone inferring "ulterior motives" upon me. And there are no low blows at all. Just personal opinion.

Back to the topic at hand... (I think it was the Jena 6...)

Its things like this that make the world go round...
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1002071jena1.html

[Azrael]

You never told me anything.
You just disappeared.
As for my nasty messages, all I said was that I was used to this kind of crap.
I might've been a bit pissy, but I felt it was justified.
Has it never occured to you that your memory might be a bit off from all the dope you smoke?
Screw it. I'm done wasting any more time with this.

[vittoria]

You never told me anything.
You just disappeared.
As for my nasty messages, all I said was that I was used to this kind of crap.
I might've been a bit pissy, but I felt it was justified.
Has it never occured to you that your memory might be a bit off from all the dope you smoke?

:offtopic:

Yes I did.. and

No.. memory not off... I quit months ago :)

I dont need cannabis to cope...from not smoking I have gone from sitting around at low end jobs moping about how pathetic life is to moving onto the lake, travel out of state, meeting future in laws, landing a great job, a damn good man-- I have a damn good memory..and its clear thanks to the fact that I have grown. There is nothing wrong with that. People do it everyday--theres no need for you to take offense. Yes I just disappeared. People do that everyday... Life is what Happens while youre busy making other plans (john lennon) As aforementioned, many people were happy to see me. Pity you are not. To take someone's chrysalis as a personal affront ... wow... amazing ( It has nothing to do with you if one can grasp it--David Bowie)

And still I'm the one wasting forum time with this...:2cents:

Back to the topic at hand ( and regardless of the next comment anything that has nothing to do with this topic of this thread i wont respond to )...

Cheers :)

[Sarasvati]

Vittoria, I very much welcome you. Although I have been highly critical of you that does not mean I am a foe to you.

I like you very much and think you come across in an immensely impressive way (that might sound patronising of course).

Healthy discourse is a risky business as people easily find themselves momentarily seperated from their friends. If we do not subject our ideas to the scrutiny of others they are likely to rust rather than to gleam and the value of progress is set back.

There is a danger in your current Napoleonic methodology Vittoria that we may as well give up on communication and just prostrate ourselves obsequiously in front of you.

Truth isn't in the eye of the beholder. It takes some courage to face up to that truth!

[darkeyes]

Wow V... ya has a rite ole admirer in S... anya has im talkin sense 2 kinda... well dun gal...:bigrin:

[vittoria]

If truth wasnt in the eye of the beholder, some wouldnt be so hard pressed to prove their point as a universal truth ( ie. religions, politicians, South Park...) "S" has his point of view--that's his personal truth. I have my point of view--that's my personal truth. Everyone has a right to feel how they choose. :) Now whether that was part of the Geneva Convention or not is another matter;)

And the incessant name calling in an effort to "put someone in their place"...sad that healthy conversation about others who are going through their own problems(ie the Jena 6) have become a free for all in trying to see who is smarter than whom.

Thankfully,. there is a way to report posts that are abusive, harassing, and made by those who just want to fight. This is now the 6th or 7th time it has been noted this is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic :) continue the banter if you must, the needless personal attacks if you must, the name calling if you must, that is your right. :)

But some have forgotten in their haught that I have a right too... something that some just cant get. :) So therefore, back to the topic at hand :)

Cheers :bigrin::tong:

[biwords]

On the subject of what is sometimes termed 'reverse racism' -- though there's really no need to add 'reverse' -- here's an item from the Telegraph (UK):

White farmers in court for growing crops
By Peta Thornycroft, in Johannesburg

Ten white farmers appeared in court in Zimbabwe yesterday accused of growing crops on their land--in a country where millions of people will need food aid within the next few months....

Since 2000, when the government began seizing white-owned farms, many of them violently, the agricultural sector has collapsed and the economy has gone into freefall, with inflation now at 6,600 per cent, the highest in the world.

The World Food Programme estimates that it will be feeding 4.1 million Zimbabweans, one third of the population, by the end of the year.

Now the Chegutu group is charged with violating the Consequential Provisions Act, which gave the few hundred remaining white farmers a final deadline of Sep 30 to leave their land and homes....

The farmers, aged from 38 to 75, produce a variety of food from chickens to oranges and have already given two-thirds of their farms to the government for resettlement. All but one still work their remaining land intensively and say they intend to try to continue.... They pleaded not guilty and face up to two years in prison if convicted....

Didymus Mutasa, the lands minister, has said that the few hundred remaining white farmers will be forced out, one way or another.

"The position is that food shortages or no food shortages, we are going ahead to remove the remaining whites," he said recently. "Too many blacks are still clamouring for land and we will resettle them on the remaining farms."

In fact many farms were given to members of the government and their cronies, and one minister has admitted that the new farmers have failed in their cultivation efforts.

Outside the court, the scruffy shops of Chegutu were empty of basic foods, and street vendors sold small, sour oranges....

[Curiious4More]

The so-called "Jena Six" should all be thrown in jail and given the maximum penalty for their crime. Brutally attacking a fellow student (regardless of whether he was white or black) is a crime. It is called ASSAULT, or aggravated battery... whatever the actual charge is...

They commited a vicious crime and they should pay the price for it.

[biwords]

This forum thread may well have run its course by now, but as a further reminder of the importance of skepticism:

Air America host Randi Rhodes wasn't mugged
BY DAVID HINCKLEY and TINA MOORE

Tuesday, October 16th 2007, 12:04 PM

Air America radio host Randi Rhodes is temporarily off the air, but claims she was brutally attacked near her Manhattan apartment are bogus, her lawyer and a police source said today.

Fellow host Jon Elliott claimed on the liberal radio network that Rhodes had been mugged while walking her dog, Simon, on Sunday night. Elliot, who said Rhodes lost several teeth in the attack, waxed about a possible conspiracy.

"Is this an attempt by the right-wing, hate machine to silence one of our own?" he asked on the air, according to Talking Radio, a blog. "Are we threatening them? Are they afraid that we're winning? Are they trying to silence intimidate us?"

A police source said Rhodes never filed a report and never claimed to be the victim of a mugging. Cops from Manhattan's 17th Precinct called her attorney, who told them Rhodes was not a victim of a crime, the source said.

Rhodes' lawyer told the Daily News she was injured in a fall while walking her dog. He said she's not sure what happened, and only knows that she fell down and is in a lot of pain. The lawyer said Rhodes expects to be back on the air Thursday. He stressed there is no indication she was targeted or that she was the victim of a "hate crime."

Rhodes started with the Air America when it launched in 2004. Her show airs from 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. weekdays.

The network released a statement that said Rhodes "experienced an unfortunate incident."

"The reports of a presumed hate crime are unfounded," the statement read by a receptionist at the network's New York offices said. "Ms. Rhodes is looking forward to being back on the air on Thursday."

Still, the tale lived on in the blogosphere.

"What the %$#$ is WRONG with you people?? Are you that SICK in the head that just because you don't agree with someone's political views you believe that they deserve to be mugged? Are you on the right that DEMENTED??," a blogger called neddlenosehanty posted on watchingthewatchers.org.

Another blogger shot back, "I very seriously doubt if this unfortunate woman was mugged by a conservative. To jump to the conclusion that she was mugged by someone on the right is bigotry of another kind. Think not?"

----

[biwords]

Sorry, should have given the source for that. It's from today's NY Daily News website.

[biwords]

Meanwhile, left-wing journalist/blogger Robert Lindsay throws in his two cents: (the links he mentioned didn't survive pasting into this format, but if you want to check them out, go to:
http://robertlindsay.blogspot.com/2007/10/mychal-bell-dislodged-his-girlfriends.html


Mychal Bell Dislodged His Girlfriend's Eye Socket
October 2:

Mychal Bell and eye sockets do not to get along well.

To demonstrate: Justin Barker was beaten so badly by Mychal Bell and his friends that Barker is rumored to have lost his vision for three weeks after the attack. He is also rumored to continue to suffer 30% vision loss in one eye.

In several accounts of the event, Mychal Bell threw the first blindside punch, and after that, Barker was unconscious. Mychal Bell is likely to have played some role in Barker's continuing vision loss. Mychal Bell may have caused permanent eye damage to two individuals, and he is not even yet 18.

Latest Jena Six rumors:

In other Jena Six rumors, we are much more confident about a previous rumor that Mychal Bell beat his girlfriend so badly that her eye became dislocated from its socket. Furthermore, she may have suffered permanent damage to her eye socket as a result of this beating.

He beat her to the ground and then continued to savagely pound her when she was down, bruising two of her ribs and causing the eye damage. Sound familiar?

Initially, we did not have a good source on this story of his savage beating of his girlfriend, but now we have much better sources, including a prominent older adult member of the community. He is a businessman and a member of a local service organization.

We are getting harassed for printing this eyesocket rumor, but we are quite confident that this is all going to come out in due time, and the doubters will be the ones with egg on their faces.

Momma Bell had already thrown 16 yr old charm student Mychal Bell out of the house due to his continuing thuggery. He moved in with Grandma Bell.

Then he beat his 17 yr old Black girlfriend so badly that her eye became dislocated from its socket. She will probably have permanent damage to her eye socket from this beating. Grandma Bell was so disgusted by this crime that she threw Mychal out of his house. Mychal has been living with the White family of his best friend, a White boy, in "institutionally White racist" Jena ever since.

The White townspeople in Jena had bailed out Mychal out of his messes over and over and covered up for him because he was such a great football player, but once he beat his girlfriend so badly, they were disgusted and said enough is enough.

We believe that the beating of his girlfriend is the crime for which Mychal was charged with second degree battery on Christmas Day, 2005. It was later plea bargained down to simple battery on April 13, 2006. It was for this charge that Mychal was place on probation until his 18th birthday. He then violated probation four times in less than eight months. Mychal's juvenile record can be downloaded on this site here.

Mychal Bell is still awaiting court hearings on his three probation violations, in addition to the Jena Six charges. Also, he has not yet been charged with probation violation in the Jena Six beating.

Mychal Bell's father, whose name may be Jones, has been living in Texas for the last seven years and has had no involvement with his thug son at all. At least three of the Jena Six Thugs are being raised by Black single mothers. The only reason Daddy Bell came running is because he smelled big money. Too bad spending any of that defense fund money is called fraud.

Momma Bell is now driving a brand new Jaguar with the money that she illegally stole from contributions to the defense fund for the Jena Six. We believe that Momma Bell has broken the law on numerous occasions in the past, and also that she may have a criminal record.

Bell's lawyer is recommending, for unknown reasons, that the entire family relocate out of the area. But Mychal Bell can barely walk outside with the court's permission now that he is out on bail.

Justin Barker is not doing well. He has lost ten pounds in the last ten days due to stress. Jena Six propaganda says nothing happened to Justin as a result of bringing the rifle to school. This is not true. Justin was suspended from school in May of this year due to the rifle incident. His parents are looking to put him in a private school.

We are now able to report with some confidence that Robert Bailey, Jr. also has a juvenile criminal record that is not insignificant. We have no details on it yet because it has not been released.

In addition, we are going to report now that all of the Jena Six have at least some kind of juvenile arrest record, and some appear to have multiple convictions.

Regarding the Gotta Go incident, numerous eyewitnesses said that the White man, Windham, who pulled the shotgun on Robert Bailey and his friends, had been jumped, beaten up and robbed by the trio at a convenience store before.

This is why Windham attacked Bailey at the party - Bailey was one of the Blacks who had beaten him with a stick and robbed him at the store earlier. This beating and robbery was witnessed by several people inside the store.

Windham also went to the hospital for his injuries.

Windham saw the same Blacks coming at him again and pulled out a shotgun to defend himself. Good man! In this light, the robbery charges against the Blacks who jumped Windham are apparently appropriate.

Once again, the "White racist" media has distorted this story in a pro-Jena Six direction.

Furthermore, it appears that the "White tree" was not really a White tree at all, but instead was a tree that both Blacks and Whites sat under.

Sources for main scoop here, here, here, here, here and here.

Bottom line: Mychal Bell is quite an up and coming little thugette, along with the rest of the Jena Six Gangstas. Mychal is 17 years old now and soon he will be 18. That's going to be a whole new ballgame for Mychal, who appears to have quite a bright thug career ahead of him. If he keeps on thuggin, as an adult, the system will catch up with him and blindside him the same way he blindsided Justin Barker.

I am also afraid that if Mychal does not do some serious time, the next person he beats up may just end up dead.

I now believe Mychal should be charged with aggravated assault, along with the rest of the Jena Six, except for Purvis. Charges should probably be dropped against Purvis.

[DiamondDog]

^That article was very confusing. But it is from a tabloid/blog. Too many people, places, and events. Are the Jena 6 all thugs or something? It's not like I personally know them or anything.

[DiamondDog]

http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3067222.ece


Fury at DNA pioneer's theory: Africans are less intelligent than Westerners
Celebrated scientist attacked for race comments: "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really"
By Cahal Milmo
Published: 17 October 2007

One of the world's most eminent scientists was embroiled in an extraordinary row last night after he claimed that black people were less intelligent than white people and the idea that "equal powers of reason" were shared across racial groups was a delusion.

James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in the unravelling of DNA who now runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, drew widespread condemnation for comments he made ahead of his arrival in Britain today for a speaking tour at venues including the Science Museum in London.

The 79-year-old geneticist reopened the explosive debate about race and science in a newspaper interview in which he said Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts when "testing" suggested the contrary. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

The newly formed Equality and Human Rights Commission, successor to the Commission for Racial Equality, said it was studying Dr Watson's remarks " in full". Dr Watson told The Sunday Times that he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really". He said there was a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true".

His views are also reflected in a book published next week, in which he writes: "There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."

The furore echoes the controversy created in the 1990s by The Bell Curve, a book co-authored by the American political scientist Charles Murray, which suggested differences in IQ were genetic and discussed the implications of a racial divide in intelligence. The work was heavily criticised across the world, in particular by leading scientists who described it as a work of " scientific racism".

Dr Watson arrives in Britain today for a speaking tour to publicise his latest book, Avoid Boring People: Lessons from a Life in Science. Among his first engagements is a speech to an audience at the Science Museum organised by the Dana Centre, which held a discussion last night on the history of scientific racism.

Critics of Dr Watson said there should be a robust response to his views across the spheres of politics and science. Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, said: "It is sad to see a scientist of such achievement making such baseless, unscientific and extremely offensive comments. I am sure the scientific community will roundly reject what appear to be Dr Watson's personal prejudices.

"These comments serve as a reminder of the attitudes which can still exists at the highest professional levels."

The American scientist earned a place in the history of great scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century when he worked at the University of Cambridge in the 1950s and 1960s and formed part of the team which discovered the structure of DNA. He shared the 1962 Nobel Prize for medicine with his British colleague Francis Crick and New Zealand-born Maurice Wilkins.

But despite serving for 50 years as a director of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on Long Island, considered a world leader in research into cancer and genetics, Dr Watson has frequently courted controversy with some of his views on politics, sexuality and race. The respected journal Science wrote in 1990: "To many in the scientific community, Watson has long been something of a wild man, and his colleagues tend to hold their collective breath whenever he veers from the script."

In 1997, he told a British newspaper that a woman should have the right to abort her unborn child if tests could determine it would be homosexual. He later insisted he was talking about a "hypothetical" choice which could never be applied. He has also suggested a link between skin colour and sex drive, positing the theory that black people have higher libidos, and argued in favour of genetic screening and engineering on the basis that " stupidity" could one day be cured. He has claimed that beauty could be genetically manufactured, saying: "People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would great."

The Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory said yesterday that Dr Watson could not be contacted to comment on his remarks.

Steven Rose, a professor of biological sciences at the Open University and a founder member of the Society for Social Responsibility in Science, said: " This is Watson at his most scandalous. He has said similar things about women before but I have never heard him get into this racist terrain. If he knew the literature in the subject he would know he was out of his depth scientifically, quite apart from socially and politically."

Anti-racism campaigners called for Dr Watson's remarks to be looked at in the context of racial hatred laws. A spokesman for the 1990 Trust, a black human rights group, said: "It is astonishing that a man of such distinction should make comments that seem to perpetuate racism in this way. It amounts to fuelling bigotry and we would like it to be looked at for grounds of legal complaint."

[biwords]

A scientist of Dr. Watson's eminence should probably not be making statements outside of his field of expertise -- and it's embarrassing to see him using anecdotal evidence like "people who have black employees know they're not equal".

As for The Bell Curve, I'm inclined to reject the term 'scientific racism'. If it's scientific, it's not racism. If it's not scientific, the term 'junk science' would be more accurate. In fact, I understand that the experts are divided about the book -- the journalist's suggestion that 'leading scientists' have condemned it is a little one-sided.

I note in passing that while DD usually expresses his opinions forcefully, in this case he just reproduced the article.

[FalconAngel]

During the Civil War, many people thought that blacks were incapable of being good soldiers. Negro units, on both the Union and Confederate sides proved that to be wrong; then, almost 100 years later, "everyone" "knew" that blacks could not be good pilots, and the Tuskeegee Airmen proved that theory wrong again.

Our problems with racism in this country are being propagated by separatists in both the black and white community (remember the bruhaha over "ebonics"?).

What we have is a bunch of supposedly enlightened people making claims that we all know are wrong about the opposing side. Fact is that all humans came from the same place. Over the millenia, we all developed certain physical traits like hair/eye and skin color due to the regions that our ancestors had settled. Outside of that, no one group is inherantly smarter than another.
The problems occur when we deny members of our society the education to know enough to know the difference between what we really know and what we really don't know.
The white racists blame their undereducated children on blacks when the problem is that they didn't get their children to stay in school or to further their education.
The black racists blame the white man for keeping their children down, when they just didn't bother to make sure that their children stayed in school and away from gangs/drugs/other crime.
The white racists think that the world owes them because they are white.
The black racists think that the white man owes him for what was done to his ancestors over 100 years ago.
Both are wrong. What happened 100 years ago is over and done. There is no one alive that remembers slavery first hand.
Both sides refuse to give up the ghost because they want to hate. They have to have an enemy to have a cause.
Fact of the matter is, there is plenty of other causes to fight for that are infinitely better than fighting to keep racism alive.

[allbimyself]

Anti-racism campaigners called for Dr Watson's remarks to be looked at in the context of racial hatred laws. A spokesman for the 1990 Trust, a black human rights group, said: "It is astonishing that a man of such distinction should make comments that seem to perpetuate racism in this way. It amounts to fuelling bigotry and we would like it to be looked at for grounds of legal complaint."

You have freedom of speech, unless it is something we don't want you to say. No wonder the world is so fucked. We've got idiots on both sides.

[darkeyes]

A scientist of Dr. Watson's eminence should probably not be making statements outside of his field of expertise -- and it's embarrassing to see him using anecdotal evidence like "people who have black employees know they're not equal".

As for The Bell Curve, I'm inclined to reject the term 'scientific racism'. If it's scientific, it's not racism. If it's not scientific, the term 'junk science' would be more accurate. In fact, I understand that the experts are divided about the book -- the journalist's suggestion that 'leading scientists' have condemned it is a little one-sided.

I note in passing that while DD usually expresses his opinions forcefully, in this case he just reproduced the article.

In employment Wordsie.. r ne employees equal 2 the boss??? Not that many bosses wud think so... or wan it so eitha...:tong:

[Azrael]

Our problems with racism in this country are being propagated by separatists in both the black and white community (remember the bruhaha over "ebonics"?).


Absolutely.

[DiamondDog]

He's living in the past and is a relflection of his generation.

This does not make his viewpoints right, correct, or give him an excuse though.

While I fear this sort of thing becoming a reality and people aborting their future homosexual kids like they do if it's found out that a child has Downs syndrome I hope that it does not get to that point.


In 1997, he told a British newspaper that a woman should have the right to abort her unborn child if tests could determine it would be homosexual. He later insisted he was talking about a "hypothetical" choice which could never be applied. He has also suggested a link between skin colour and sex drive, positing the theory that black people have higher libidos, and argued in favour of genetic screening and engineering on the basis that " stupidity" could one day be cured. He has claimed that beauty could be genetically manufactured, saying: "People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would great."

[darkeyes]

DD... we hav had cuppla spats of late but thats ok.. its how peeps r...we all c an think diff...but re this arsehole cant put a blade a grass tween us.... he mite b a nobel prize winnna...but is hardly a noble human bein...

[biwords]

Excerpts from a fascinating article on this case:

Media Myths About the Jena 6

Craig Franklin, Christian Science Monitor, October 24, 2007

…The media got most of the basics wrong. In fact, I have never before witnessed such a disgrace in professional journalism. Myths replaced facts, and journalists abdicated their solemn duty to investigate every claim because they were seduced by a powerfully appealing but false narrative of racial injustice.

I should know. I live in Jena. My wife has taught at Jena High School for many years. And most important, I am probably the only reporter who has covered these events from the very beginning…

Myth 1: The Whites-Only Tree. There has never been a “whites-only” tree at Jena High School. Students of all races sat underneath this tree. When a student asked during an assembly at the start of school last year if anyone could sit under the tree, it evoked laughter from everyone present—blacks and whites. As reported by students in the assembly, the question was asked to make a joke and to drag out the assembly and avoid class.

Myth 2: Nooses a Signal to Black Students. An investigation by school officials, police, and an FBI agent revealed the true motivation behind the placing of two nooses in the tree the day after the assembly. According to the expulsion committee, the crudely constructed nooses were not aimed at black students. Instead, they were understood to be a prank by three white students aimed at their fellow white friends, members of the school rodeo team. (The students apparently got the idea from watching episodes of “Lonesome Dove.”) The committee further concluded that the three young teens had no knowledge that nooses symbolize the terrible legacy of the lynchings of countless blacks in American history. When informed of this history by school officials, they became visibly remorseful because they had many black friends. Another myth concerns their punishment, which was not a three-day suspension, but rather nine days at an alternative facility followed by two weeks of in-school suspension, Saturday detentions, attendance at Discipline Court, and evaluation by licensed mental-health professionals. The students who hung the nooses have not publicly come forward to give their version of events.

Myth 3: Nooses Were a Hate Crime. Although many believe the three white students should have been prosecuted for a hate crime for hanging the nooses, the incident did not meet the legal criteria for a federal hate crime. It also did not meet the standard for Louisiana’s hate-crime statute, and though widely condemned by all officials, there was no crime to charge the youths with.

Myth 4: DA’s Threat to Black Students. When District Attorney Reed Walters spoke to Jena High students at an assembly in September, he did not tell black students that he could make their life miserable with “the stroke of a pen.” Instead, according to Walters, “two or three girls, white girls, were chit-chatting on their cellphones or playing with their cellphones right in the middle of my dissertation. I got a little irritated at them and said, ‘Pay attention to me. I am right now having to deal with an aggravated rape case where I’ve got to decide whether the death penalty applies or not.’ I said, ‘Look, I can be your best friend or your worst enemy. With the stroke of a pen I can make your life miserable so I want you to call me before you do something stupid.’”…

Myth 5: The Fair Barn Party Incident. On Dec. 1, 2006, a private party—not an all-white party as reported—was held at the local community center called the Fair Barn. Robert Bailey Jr., soon to be one of the Jena 6, came to the party with others seeking admittance.
When they were denied entrance by the renter of the facility, a white male named Justin Sloan (not a Jena High student) at the party attacked Bailey and hit him in the face with his fist. This is reported in witness statements to police, including the victim, Robert Bailey, Jr…

Myth 6: The “Gotta-Go” Grocery Incident. On Dec. 2, 2006, Bailey and two other black Jena High students were involved in an altercation at this local convenience store, stemming from the incident that occurred the night before. The three were accused by police of jumping a white man as he entered the store and stealing a shotgun from him. The two parties gave conflicting statements to police. However, two unrelated eye witnesses of the event gave statements that corresponded with that of the white male.

Myth 7: The Schoolyard Fight. The event on Dec. 4, 2006 was consistently labeled a “schoolyard fight.” But witnesses described something much more horrific. Several black students, including those now known as the Jena 6, barricaded an exit to the school’s gym as they lay in wait for Justin Barker to exit. (It remains unclear why Mr. Barker was specifically targeted.)
When Barker tried to leave through another exit, court testimony indicates, he was hit from behind by Mychal Bell. Multiple witnesses confirmed that Barker was immediately knocked unconscious and lay on the floor defenseless as several other black students joined together to kick and stomp him, with most of the blows striking his head. Police speculate that the motivation for the attack was related to the racially charged fights that had occurred during the previous weekend.

Myth 8: The Attack Is Linked to the Nooses. Nowhere in any of the evidence, including statements by witnesses and defendants, is there any reference to the noose incident that occurred three months prior. This was confirmed by the United States attorney for the Western District of Louisiana, Donald Washington, on numerous occasions.

Myth 9: Mychal Bell’s All-White Jury. While it is true that Mychal Bell was convicted as an adult by an all-white jury in June (a conviction that was later overturned with his case sent to juvenile court), the jury selection process was completely legal and withstood an investigation by the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division. Court officials insist that several black residents were summoned for jury duty, but did not appear.

Myth 10: Jena 6 as Model Youth. While some members were simply caught up in the moment, others had criminal records. Bell had at least four prior violent-crime arrests before the December attack, and was on probation during most of this year…

These are just [10] of many myths that are portrayed as fact in the media concerning the Jena cases. (A more thorough review of all events can be found at www.thejenatimes.net—click on Chronological Order of Events.)