Violated....

[the mage]

This is all true. I'd like people to give their reactions to the situation and what they have to say to the guy who did it.

Both people are from this board and met in meatlife to play.
I will have him read this.
A dozen e mails exchanged in which it was emphasized that the play was with dildos and oral and all safe using condoms on the toys.
Yahoo messenger chat exchanged and again condoms and safe brought up.
Phone talk, safe and sane agreed to.
He comes and seems bright and normal.
The box of 8 types of condoms with 50 condoms in it was on the table with the toys. The toys on top of the open box. We use my toys only and a clean out. I'm the bottom so I relented on condoms on the dildos.. He likes a sub so I played it well and he had me unable to see and guessing the sizes. Then with out asking or permission he barebacked me...

The man seem oblivious to the gravity of the offense he has done to me.
I will leave it at that.. Please reply your thoughts ....

[Skater Boy]

This is why I am oh-so-careful about who I meet up with. You NEVER know what someone is like, even after a few emails. You are right to feel violated, but the important thing is to learn from this lesson, and be more careful next time. I'm still a bit unclear about how he managed to bareback you without your permission though.

Oh, and an STD/STI test might be in order.

[MarieDelta]

Words fail me.

This person has violated your trust with an act that endangered your health.

A violation of trust is one thing, but the act commited was also an act that is potentially dangerous for both of you (although moreso for you as the bottom).

It would be like taking you out for a night on the town , geting you too drunk to drive and then getting drunk himself and driving you both home.

I certainly would not have anymore contact with this person.


Arrghhh!

[shameless agitator]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what you've just described is rape. Both in the moral and legal sense, this was rape. I would consider legal recourse & getting STD testing would definitely be a good idea.

[TaylorMade]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what you've just described is rape. Both in the moral and legal sense, this was rape. I would consider legal recourse & getting STD testing would definitely be a good idea.

I'm with SA on this. You WERE raped. He had sex with that person in a manner that they did not consent to.

I'd contact the local Gay Men's Health Crisis or something.

*Taylor*

[Skater Boy]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what you've just described is rape. Both in the moral and legal sense, this was rape. I would consider legal recourse & getting STD testing would definitely be a good idea.

Yes, it does seem like rape. But considering that he WILLINGLY let the man into his home WITH the intention of having SOME form of sex with him, I would be worried about my chances of success in a court of law.

[MarieDelta]

I'm with SA on this. You WERE raped. He had sex with that person in a manner that they did not consent to.

I'd contact the local Gay Men's Health Crisis or something.

*Taylor*

I'd have to say I agree.

[mistymockingbird]

That's horrible. It illustrates how vulnerable we make ourselves when we consent to have sex of any kind with someone. You can talk and talk but in the end you really only have someone's word. Even with consensual sex you still have a right to set boundaries and those boundaries should be respected. Add to the fact that those boundaries were betrayed while completely sober. There is no excuse.

For sure get tested. As for reporting it, check with a crisis center in your area, see if there is something that can be done or at a minimum if there is someone you can talk to.

Sending good thoughts your way.

[FalconAngel]

Rape is exactly what happened here. You two had agreed on what was to occur and he changed it without your consent. From a legal standpoint, it is very clearly rape and legal recourse is the best solution; no matter how embarrassing it may be.

Based on what you are telling us all, there's no telling how many other people this person may have done this to. Coming forward with this may bring an end to any number of date rape crimes that may have been committed by them.

[wanderingrichard]

Yes, it does seem like rape. But considering that he WILLINGLY let the man into his home WITH the intention of having SOME form of sex with him, I would be worried about my chances of success in a court of law.

been tried in the courts already.. still rape

[Skater Boy]

been tried in the courts already.. still rape

Then to the courts. Although I suspect reporting it to the police would be the first step...

[mistymockingbird]

OK the more I've thought about this, the more I have to say.

Regardless, of what anyone else's opinion is, the bottom line is that you feel violated. You need to take action about that. Whether it be counseling or reporting it to the police or seeking legal action or some combo thereof.

I consider myself a rape survivor. I've debated with folks before about whether or not what happened to me could technically be classified as rape. One or two have actually told me to my face that they don't consider what I went through rape because it was my husband that did it. But the bottom line is, I was violated and it did a number on my head for years. I still see the ripples of that experience although they are much easier to deal with now than they once were.

You had an experience that went horribly wrong in your eyes. Not at all what you signed up for. For your own sake, don't just push it off like it is nothing. It is something. Something that you need to deal with on your own terms.

[Azrael]

Jesus Christ, either press charges, or sick a syphillitic boar on his ass!
Holy Fucking Hell that's messed up!

[Herbwoman39]

Sweetie, I am SO sorry this happened to you. It's true. You were raped because he forced a sexual action on you that you did not agree to. As a two time rape survivor I can tell you that the best thing you can do for yourself is to get counseling. Talk about it because the more you talk about it the less scary it feels.

If you need to talk, drop me a PM. I'm happy to help others who have been through this.

[Long Duck Dong]

I am not taking sides here either..... in my eyes, both parties helped create this situation.....

lol ok, the person went outside the agreed boundaries and acted in a manner that places risk to the health and wellbeing.....

BUT.....the situation was created by interaction with a person that you didn't know, that was a stranger and somebody that you have no level of trust with

there are known risks to picking up people online for casual sex......
sexual violation is not something I condone at all.....but I also look at how it came about and thats why I hold both people responsible for the outcome, and not one person

to say that it is solely the responsibility of one person is a bit like saying this:
it is my right to pick up strangers online for causal sex, it is my right to expect the person to act according to what I dictate, it is my right to not have to worry about the other people betraying my trust, it is my right to place myself in a risky situation and expect that I face no risk
it is my right to blame the other person for a situation that I helped create

sorry, like arguments, fights and disagreements, it takes two people....and therefore two people need to be responsible for the outcome

[parkwings]

I think legal action is justified.

This person's behavior was reckless, disturbing. He may have sentenced you to a life of taking a cocktail of AIDS drugs just so you may stay alive, or any number of other std's. He made that decision for you, after you both agreed on the ground rules-he BROKE the agreement for his own selfish pleasure.

If I were you, I would take legal action to teach that a-hole a lesson..even if you lose, it will still be stressfull for him. He deserves at least that, after what he did to you.

Disgraceful behavior.

[miamiuu]

Have there been actual legal cases where this happened and it was considered rape? You all are telling this person to call the cops when I haven't heard about any such cases.

[ghytifrdnr]

I'm not sure Lorena Bobbitt was wrong.
:disgust:

[CardShark]

I"d say me or him one would have got there ass beat! :rolleyes: Wouldn't have been a pleasant site for sure@ I avoid drama/fighting over bullshit like crazy! But in that spot? I"d hit mike tyson between the eyes let alone that moron! Yeah i'd get an ass kicking! but sometimes you just gotta do one of three things in life :cool: Fight,fuck or hit the fence ;)

[Vuarra]

I'm not sure Lorena Bobbitt was wrong.
:disgust:


I am sure that she *was* wrong, and that in this case, rape is the correct term.

[Skater Boy]

I am sure that she *was* wrong, and that in this case, rape is the correct term.

"rape" is definitely the correct term. But PROOVING it in a court of law is different to knowing what happened. Lets just hope he has a talented legal representative.

[nothings5d]

Misty, if people don't believe it's rape because it was your husband then you should point out the fact that in the US at least it was found that a man COULD rape his wife. There have been quite a few cases tried to that effect.

[DiamondDog]

sorry to hear that you got raped but this is very common in the GLBT/gay "community".

I know lots of men who have been raped or assaulted/beaten up by their tricks/1 night stands, and partners/boyfriends.

[biwords]

I'm horrified by what you've been through. The key fact here is that you never consented to what was actually done to you. It's not certain what the result would be in a court of law, because that depends on a number of factors including the judge or jury's subjective perceptions of credibility. But what you've written leaves me personally in no doubt that you were raped. And I'm appalled by the line of thought that suggests shared responsibility. It's a bit like saying that if I'm visibly carrying an iPod, I'm responsible if a gang swarms me for it. Or that if I park a nice car at the curb, I'm responsible if it's stolen. These arguments confuse the unlawful acts of the perp with the lawful (and ethically blameless) acts of the victim.

I wish you all the best in recovering from this appalling experience.

[leredacteur]

SkaterBoy:

I let the guy from the gas company, the appliance repairman, the elecrican and the plumber into my house willingly, too. But I don't let them stick their bare dicks into me. Rape is Rape. A complaint to the police and/or the district attorney is in order. And the offender should be publicly identified on this site so no others are endangered.
It's RAPE. Period. Paragraph.

[biwords]

Publicly identifying the offender on this site is an excellent idea.

[the mage]

No, outing this man is not my intention. Will not happen.
I'm not freaking out over this.
This has been a wake up call though.
To me, and I hope by extension everyone.

I'm not as outraged as some here and I don't panic easily.
Talk with the top, and time, settles things down.

He, to my mind, needs to see on screen how people react to what he did.
Safe play should be forefront in the minds of the very inexperienced and the players as well.

[Skater Boy]

SkaterBoy:

I let the guy from the gas company, the appliance repairman, the elecrican and the plumber into my house willingly, too. But I don't let them stick their bare dicks into me. Rape is Rape. A complaint to the police and/or the district attorney is in order. And the offender should be publicly identified on this site so no others are endangered.
It's RAPE. Period. Paragraph.

EXACTLY what I said, if you re-read what I wrote. BUT knowing what happened, and prooving that in a court of law are two different things. The justice system is not as perfect as some of us would like to think. Not that it should stop him from pressing charges if he wishes to.

[FalconAngel]

No, outing this man is not my intention. Will not happen.
I'm not freaking out over this.
This has been a wake up call though.
To me, and I hope by extension everyone.

I'm not as outraged as some here and I don't panic easily.
Talk with the top, and time, settles things down.

He, to my mind, needs to see on screen how people react to what he did.
Safe play should be forefront in the minds of the very inexperienced and the players as well.

You are assuming that he actually cares about what the people here think of him. Since he technically committed date rape, what makes you believe that he cares?

Now I cannot speak for Canada, but here in the U.S. it is a felony crime. And if he tests out HIV+, then it could be a couple of other crimes as well. Serious ones.

But if you want to let it go like that, then that is up to you. But at least, if you are going to post about this guy, then don't just give up his s/n, give out his real name, too. Really embarrass the bastard.

[Skater Boy]

But if you want to let it go like that, then that is up to you. But at least, if you are going to post about this guy, then don't just give up his s/n, give out his real name, too. Really embarrass the bastard.

Yeah, if its safe to do so, I might also be inclined to name and shame this guy if I were you. If you decide not to press charges, the least you could do for yourself is to prevent it from happening to someone else... possibly even another member here on the site.

[Doggie_Wood]

Yes, it does seem like rape.................

Not taking sides, and by the facts stated in this thread, you were raped.

Questions that could be asked in order to even considered if criminal action could or would be persued;

1) Was it agreed by both parties involved that condoms would be used, on the toys and otherwise?,

2) Was there any consciences between the two of you to have sexual intercourse, with or without condoms?,

3) At the moment of penile penitration, were you aware that it was in fact penile penitration and without a condom?

4) Did you demand or say NO to the sex act if you found out prior to the act?

Just a few things that a legal clinic might ask.

Once ALL of the facts are laid out on the table, remembering that it will be your word against his as to what was agreed upon, a legal advisor would be more able to guide you as to what, if any, action(s) or remedies could be sought.

Did you copy the emails or chat transcripts between the two of you, more especially anything related to the agreements made?

STD tests? Most definitely get that done at your earliest available time.
And if any of the tests return positive, you owe it to yourself and to the other members of this community to identify this person openly. This could prevent another case of date rape.


:doggie:

[seafer]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what you've just described is rape. Both in the moral and legal sense, this was rape. I would consider legal recourse & getting STD testing would definitely be a good idea.

:eek: OMFG!!! I feel for you!! what has the world come to?? Im.. I..
Im so flabbergasted I can't seem to find words to say or type right. OMFG!!!
That is so not cool!! could it be possible to get this person in trouble for what they did to you?? would any police do anything for you?? so not sure, but Id sure as hell would if I were a cop!! People like that really scare me!! Im ssooo sorry for you.. I... OMFG!! THATS SO WRONG!!!
NOT YOU!! thats person who did this to you.. string them up and make them suffer as you have and will.. F%^%^$!!!

[jedinudist]

In all honesty, I would suggest the obligatory medical tests AND an attorney... In that order.

This individual purposefully violated the agreed safety measures and thus has cast your physical health into doubt for years to come.

[Long Duck Dong]

mage, I saw your remarks about showing the person about their actions, without going to extremes and I fully support that

I wonder how many people that have posted, would be ok with their details plastered all over bisexual.com, ( regardless of the reasoning )

I think you handled it in a very positive manner.....cos the alternative, is going to court, dealing with lawyers and the media, and that would lead to bisexual.com and its members coming under scrutiny

while I understand fully that the person acted in a manner that was not agreed upon.... I also understand, that its highlighted a number of the risks that people face with hook ups...risks that many people fail to acknowledge when considering a hook up

I just hope that some of the bisexual members also realize that pushing partners and wives to accept bisexuality and bisexual sexual actions, ( which the partner may not accept or wish to join in with ) is a form of mental, emotional and verbal abuse.... and indeed a form of *rape *

[darkeyes]

In law the word no means no...except when the law says otherwise and u didn mean it to mean no but yes... man argument.. If u didn say no, but had sex inflicted onya it is a bit more ambiguous. Then it becomes so much harder 2 argue u wer unwillin, even if u wer. Silence means aquiescence 2 woteva...

We have all been in situations wer neither party says yes or no but it is understood what is going 2 happen... an thats ok insofar as it goes. However, wenya think bout it shud not the law b categoric that rape can b considered having taken place if one partner has not categorically said the word yes or its equivelant??.. In ne case..as it stands the word no shud b enuff..makesya wonda wer sum arseholes learned their grammar!

[elian]

Misty, if people don't believe it's rape because it was your husband then you should point out the fact that in the US at least it was found that a man COULD rape his wife. There have been quite a few cases tried to that effect.

Why doesn't that surprise me!? We have such an ass-backwards screwed up culture here. Another GREAT reason to go run off and have one of those STRAIGHT marriages. Sex is naughty and we have to sweep it under the rug. <sick>

And yeah, I think it was rape - if you were as clear about what was going to happen as you describe, and you told him "NO" when he "couldn't help himself" it was rape.

I just can't imagine feeling pleasure at making someone cry during sex - even though there is a certain amount of excitement in dom/sub play - making someone cry - and not in a good way would be an immediate, extreme turn-off for me.

Of course the funny (sad) thing is, being male you may not have cried - but if it was unwanted and you made that clear it was still rape in a courtroom as far as I am aware (not a lawyer though).

I guess there are a lot of male pervs who are more interested in getting their own rocks off and who gives a damn about the rest of the world - selfish bastards.

Another great reason to self-loathe over gender - "Gay Culture" and always having to get your "love" from a back room some place. Someone please prove me wrong .. I would love to be wrong on this one.

[FalconAngel]

I think you handled it in a very positive manner.....cos the alternative, is going to court, dealing with lawyers and the media, and that would lead to bisexual.com and its members coming under scrutiny

I seriously doubt that this site would come under any scrutiny beyond the mention of where they met, since it is a site designed for people to chat, meet, greet and hook up; just like a thousand other sites out there.

How they met would be inconsequential to the court, since it is the act itself that is the problem, not the place that they met.

Also, not taking that rapist to court opens up the serious risk of leaving them out there to rape others. Is it better to put everyone else at physical risk to protect one criminal? I would hope not.

[elian]

From the perspective of the aggressor, maybe what I said was harsh, it was written from the perspective that the aggressor knew you did not want the contact and proceeded anyway..I think that is unacceptable.

If the person didn't realize what they did and felt genuine remorse it would be nice in a utopian paradise if they would offer an apology .. but for many various different reasons it could be unhealthy to even associate at this point.

There are a lot of mistakes in life that can be forgiven but a few of them not so much - and if this person *habitually* "goes too far" and knows the contact is unwanted then for the love of God - seek out a therapist ..

[JoyJoyHollywood]

I am very sorry. Although those are very impotent words, they are all I have to give you. I really am very sorry.

I have to say that I concur that you were raped in regard to the law. However, the dicission to press charges can only be made by you, without influence from any other. If you don't you will avoid a lot of hassle as your case may be hard to prosecute, if you do you will at least get some compensation and possibly remove a very horrible person from circulation. It's up to you. Either way-I support your decission.

It really is very awful that this has happened to you-I've noticed you before and very much enjoyed your writting.

I've also noticed that many regard that type of play as a sort of invitation for abuse. In response to that I am going to say something, just once.

That is bull.

You did not ask for that. It was not included in the negotians. Negotians are firm and a good Dom won't press or violate them. But-many have no idea what they are doing and have no right to play. Just because some have not played before, does not give them the right to coment on if this was a matter of violation or invitation. You did not invite this. Did not ask for it. Please-never think so.

If I were you, I would want revenge. Not even lawful prosecution, but revenge. I'm not going to give you some goodie goodie response about how that is bad, will bring you down, not help you or is bad for your spirit. I'm going to tell you this-revenge is worthless if you are indangered and is best served on a cold plate. What you do is your own choice and right.

Other than that all I can offer is this-find a way to go on a vacation. Get away. Give yourself some time away from your average surroundings and get some rest and peace. Sleep. Eat. Let your emotions settle. Don't force yourself to think on something that will be pressing anyway. While I'm not trying to belittle you with platitudes, I will recomend that you not make yourself suffer any more than you already have. Give yourself a break.

I am so sorry.

[dafydd]

Just a few questions:
How did you know he penetrated you?
How did you know he penerated you without a condom?
When you realised he was penetrating you, what did you do?
If you fought him off, did he resist and continue to penetrate you?

with respect,

D

[Long Duck Dong]

in nz, if appling for a job a person must reveal their criminal history

a charge such as rape / sexual violation.... would destroy a persons life

I am watching posters in the thread, say * hell lets get this person into charge, have mages personal and private life under scrutiny by the court system and lets have somebody charged and convicted for something that was a stupid mistake, should not have happened and MAY have been a act of passion...*

its ok it will only label the person as a sexual offender and possibly wreck their chances at employment and may cause distress to the person if names are released to the general public, not to mention the fact of the stress it would place on mage.......

how many of the people in this thread, after a encounter with the SAME sex, would follow the same course of action they are suggesting for mage, in the event that something didn't go as hoped

did the person pre plan to not use a condom and preform anal sex.... or was it actually a stupid act preformed in the middle of passion.....
and if indeed, it was a stupid act.... how many of the bisexual.com members, should be charged, for doing something stupid in the midst of sex ???

[DiamondDog]

in nz, if appling for a job a person must reveal their criminal history

a charge such as rape / sexual violation.... would destroy a persons life

I am watching posters in the thread, say * hell lets get this person into charge, have mages personal and private life under scrutiny by the court system and lets have somebody charged and convicted for something that was a stupid mistake, should not have happened and MAY have been a act of passion...*

its ok it will only label the person as a sexual offender and possibly wreck their chances at employment and may cause distress to the person if names are released to the general public, not to mention the fact of the stress it would place on mage.......

how many of the people in this thread, after a encounter with the SAME sex, would follow the same course of action they are suggesting for mage, in the event that something didn't go as hoped

did the person pre plan to not use a condom and preform anal sex.... or was it actually a stupid act preformed in the middle of passion.....
and if indeed, it was a stupid act.... how many of the bisexual.com members, should be charged, for doing something stupid in the midst of sex ???
Real rape (not "rape" scenes that people do) is rape and a horrible thing regardless of the gender of the person/people involved.

If a man raped me I'd press charges, and if a woman or trans person did I would as well.

There's a shame/stigma about rape/abuse and it's especially prevalent in women and even more so in men, mage is showing this in his post about how everything's cool between he and the guy who date raped him.

I can understand not wanting to name the guy who raped him since he probably posts here or goes on this site but yes if someone did rape me regardless of their gender I would press charges since they've probably done it before and they're not going to get away with it if they did it to me.

Whenever I have sex with someone/people we talk and communicate a lot about things beforehand and it's very well known and clear/communicated that no means no (even during bondage/SM when we use a safeword/s as a form of saying "no" or "stop! immediatley!") and that if anyone is doing anything to another person that they don't want done if the person says to stop it will immediatley, or if they just suggest doing something and the other person/people don't want it done then it's not done.

[gb11vt18]

That is such a huge violation of the trust that the two of you had I know that building up to you made it clear that he should always be safe. It is sometimes absolute insanity what some people will do. Only if the partner I was with wanted me to not use a condom but as we all pratice safe sex the use of condoms is necessary that we do not transmitt sexual dieases or have unwanted pregnancy. I hope that you can mend the relationship becasue it sounds like besides this one event that he is a nice man.

[Long Duck Dong]

I agree DD... rape is rape.....

I have been a * victim * of M/M rape......so I do understand how it can be soul destroying ...

however, I also understand the difference between rape and sexual violation....
many posters are quick to label this person a rapist, when in fact they are not quilty of rape... but sexual violation

there is a big difference.....

mage was not forced to have sexual intercourse by means of mental / emotional manipulation or brute force, which is rape
sexual violation is the penetration of a orifice by ANY object, against the persons consent

mage agreed to anal penetration with toys, NOT a penis....that is consenting sex with toys

had mage not consented to any penetration by toys or penis and he was made to allow the penetration, its rape

consent for toys was given, but not for a penis.... hence sexual violation

but the person has now been labelled a rapist......

my issue is not what happened, but the way in which people are acting...
I fully agree that a violation of trust and respect has happened..... but people are sitting in a forum attacking the hell out of a person that may have acted in a foolish manner during sex ( crime of passion ) and NOT with the intent of harm, offense or distress

I am quilty of doing things during sexual passion that were a bit over the top, and I accept that I was wrong for my actions..... should I now bear the label of * rapist *......

[BluesnCoffee]

It's a bit like saying that if I'm visibly carrying an iPod, I'm responsible if a gang swarms me for it. Or that if I park a nice car at the curb, I'm responsible if it's stolen. These arguments confuse the unlawful acts of the perp with the lawful (and ethically blameless) acts of the victim.

I completely disagree with what you are saying. Just like in sex, there is high risk and low risk behavior in regards to crime. For example, walking down my campus with an iPod is low risk behavior. Thousands of people do it everyday. However, if you decide to walk in a bad area of town, late at night, visibly displaying an iPod, you are engaging in high risk behavior. You can't engage in high risk behavior and then expect to receive sympathy as a victim. Are you asking to be robbed if you walk in the bad part of town at night? No. In a perfect world should be able to walk when and where you want without any fear of being mugged? Yes. But this isn't a perfect world. It is our choice whether or not to engage in high risk behavior, but we must be prepared to accept the consequences of our actions.

[elian]

I understand what you are saying Duck, I had a similar situation with toys - and when I found out I didn't really like it I was sort of stuck with him doing it for a while more - he eventually figured out it wasn't getting the desired response and quit. In that situation, because I had always wanted to see what it felt like I sort of resigned myself to the fact that I made myself available and I do not consider it rape because there was no malicious intent on the dom's part - I know I put myself in that position because I kept pressing for it.

But, that may not be what happened in this case - and if "mage" said NO and the guy kept going - not good. Guys are generally very strong - and I have no doubt that someone COULD have pinned him down and done something he really didn't want to do. Penetration involves a lot of trust, obviously something went wrong here.

Honestly, I thought about the severity of the accusations, it's a sad situation all the way around..and we are only hearing one side of the story. Someone has some serious thinking to do...but I am no judge - those two people will need to figure it out for themselves.

I am honestly sick and tired of the way our "culture" fools around.


I agree DD... rape is rape.....

I have been a * victim * of M/M rape......so I do understand how it can be soul destroying ...

however, I also understand the difference between rape and sexual violation....
many posters are quick to label this person a rapist, when in fact they are not quilty of rape... but sexual violation

there is a big difference.....

mage was not forced to have sexual intercourse by means of mental / emotional manipulation or brute force, which is rape
sexual violation is the penetration of a orifice by ANY object, against the persons consent

mage agreed to anal penetration with toys, NOT a penis....that is consenting sex with toys

had mage not consented to any penetration by toys or penis and he was made to allow the penetration, its rape

consent for toys was given, but not for a penis.... hence sexual violation

but the person has now been labelled a rapist......

my issue is not what happened, but the way in which people are acting...
I fully agree that a violation of trust and respect has happened..... but people are sitting in a forum attacking the hell out of a person that may have acted in a foolish manner during sex ( crime of passion ) and NOT with the intent of harm, offense or distress

I am quilty of doing things during sexual passion that were a bit over the top, and I accept that I was wrong for my actions..... should I now bear the label of * rapist *......

[elian]

I am honestly sick and tired of the way our "culture" fools around.

You know - the gay people I've met around this area have some of the most tortured and abused souls I have ever seen. I mean, I understand about being lonely enough to "hook up" but isn't self-loathing bad enough without having to subject yourself to a constant stream of one-night stands? Not a very healthy situation to put yourself in to start with.

And you dom. guys, do you have any idea when you hook up what the past of the person you are hooking up with IS? I mean, if that person WAS abused as a child - do you have any idea what you are doing when you are hooking up with that person? Sex illicits very strong emotions. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that if you really CARE about that person that you should try to get to know them first.

I have yet to meet a person who identifies as something other than straight that is really, seriously completely at peace with their own gender and sexuality..and I'm not saying that to be mean - I lived with it for 20 years or so myself.

What needs to happen is that men need to understand that it's OK to show love in other ways besides sex maybe? I know, I must be REALLY naive to think that love is even a part of any of this, guess I'll shut up now. It's just that the whole thing seems to be somewhat destructive to me - and people can get hurt if both partners aren't mature enough.

[the mage]

Ok, it's me again...

THANK YOU ALL for the support!!
I'm glad to have brought this to discussion that was my intent all along but I assure you I am ok in every sense.

A couple of fine points. Had this been a violent encounter of any kind it would be different. I might feel raped. I do know it is the legal definition of what he did here in Canada but, there was no violence in it.
There was tremendous stupidity in it.
It was totally unexpected on my part, despite experience.
I suspect that is what let my guard down, no one in 20 plus years of play has ever crossed the line like that. Specially since this was not an anonymous meeting. A lot of info has changed hands and I know where he lives as he does me. He even knows he's on building video so there no hit and run scene here.

He told me he had experience. That part was a lie.
That is what led, I believe, to his thinking it was ok.
It was his dick doing all the thinking.
Mine too.
By the way, despite my size I am seldom in danger of pinning, I am exceedingly fit with martial arts experience.
As to how long it went on, it was about half a dozen strokes when I felt it was different from my toys. I really wasn't sure, then I felt his thighs hitting me. I then asked if he was barebacking me and he said yes. I told him he cant do that and take it out now, which he did.
I told him to go wash it off, we finished the play with head and he left.
I was in a bit of a Sub State at the time (those in the D/s realm will know it)
I didn't really clue in till hours later the importance of what had happened.

There could have been a very different outcome for the top had I been a different man, as seen by the responses here.
His telling me he was experienced at this play was not true and it could have been a disaster for him, and me too.

So to cap this off, I hope, ....PEOPLE, do not lie to play partners about your experience!!

AND do not lie to your lovers about your play partners either...
Ahh, such a fine world it would be...

[canuckotter]

Now I cannot speak for Canada, but here in the U.S. it is a felony crime. And if he tests out HIV+, then it could be a couple of other crimes as well. Serious ones.
Officially, yes, it's a crime. I don't know if it's been tested in court though.

And as for the STD comment... Yeah, I'm pretty sure that would stand up in court. If you have sex with someone knowing you're infected, the precedent's been established that that is definitely criminal. Screwing someone without protection when they've explicitly requested it... Even if you didn't know you were infected, it's probably blatant enough negligence to get the case to stand.

Of course, it would all depend on the cop and the Crown attorney taking you seriously...

[onewhocares]

Biwords.....my thoughts exactly. He is one of our own and should or could be brought out.

[the mage]

You know - the gay people I've met around this area have some of the most tortured and abused souls I have ever seen. I mean, I understand about being lonely enough to "hook up" but isn't self-loathing bad enough without having to subject yourself to a constant stream of one-night stands? Not a very healthy situation to put yourself in to start with.

I have yet to meet a person who identifies as something other than straight that is really, seriously completely at peace with their own gender and sexuality..and I'm not saying that to be mean - I lived with it for 20 years or so myself.

What needs to happen is that men need to understand that it's OK to show love in other ways besides sex maybe? I know, I must be REALLY naive to think that love is even a part of any of this, guess I'll shut up now. It's just that the whole thing seems to be somewhat destructive to me - and people can get hurt if both partners aren't mature enough.





....................................... LMAO................

You are projecting your self doubt upon the rest of gay culture.
You are presuming we're all self loathing and self destructive.

Foolishness!!!

...........do not assume and be guilty of inserting your life experience into mine.


I quite love myself and am intelligent enough to know that while I am socially strong and financially well off I enjoy sexual submission. I can lift more than my own body weight so its not physical weakness either.
It is the seeking of physical pleasure.

I live for this life thank you, as I'm quite sure there is no next one.
and if there is I'm also quite sure I'm not going to hell for having sex.

If you are fool enough to believe that sexual activity has any greater inherent risk than say, driving your car your are duped.

You can be killed in any given instant. Live NOW!

[seafer]

....................................... LMAO................

You are projecting your self doubt upon the rest of gay culture.
You are presuming we're all self loathing and self destructive.

Foolishness!!!

...........do not assume and be guilty of inserting your life experience into mine.


I quite love myself and am intelligent enough to know that while I am socially strong and financially well off I enjoy sexual submission. I can lift more than my own body weight so its not physical weakness either.
It is the seeking of physical pleasure.

I live for this life thank you, as I'm quite sure there is no next one.
and if there is I'm also quite sure I'm not going to hell for having sex.

If you are fool enough to believe that sexual activity has any greater inherent risk than say, driving your car your are duped.

You can be killed in any given instant. Live NOW!

I absolutly LOVE how you think!! you handle this better then I would have by far!! Hear! Hear!!

[elian]

I got a completely different impression from the first page of this post, when you wrote your original post the way it was written I got the impression that you were an independent third party - so I was trying to draw conclusions by what you said the facts were, not by your profile.

Someone who is just starting out with toy play, who is nervous about being penetrated sounds like an inexperienced person to me - clearly you are not. Going by your profile the idea that you could have been raped is negated by your apparent proficient skill in defending yourself. If you wanted to you could have disabled this "aggressor" in minutes, but you did not.

Sorry for being overly concerned, I didn't realize that what you were doing was basically running a theoretical psychological training exercise instead of genuinely asking for help. It sounds as if you already had your mind made up and the rest of the post was like some sort of theoretical role play "public service announcement" about date rape safety.

Sorry - I guess I am projecting some old memories onto this, maybe they don't belong here. I've fought with myself for so long that I've relatively loving, but a bit immature. Maybe I am too immature to participate in this community in a healthy way. I still have this quaint notion in my head that I could find a long term companion who values me for more than just what I can do in bed. Judging by the number of PM's I get in chat, I'm not sure this is a realistic viewpoint to have here.

Do whatever you want - I don't care, no problem.

Sorry, there's nothing pleasant about rape, I guess this whole topic illicits strong emotions in me - even though I really don't consider myself to have ever been raped..it is hitting a nerve..very strange.

[the mage]

Hey, no offense meant or taken.....
Original posting was to both generate the always useful thoughts on safe play, but more than that, the top in question needed to see the general reaction to what he did.

He was indeed lucky it was me he played with, not an angry suppressed closeted guy who "was a bit drunk at the time".......B...

[Fresia]

Bump it up!

[pole_smoker]

Bump it up!
LMAO somehow I doubt the highly manic and mentally ill Fresia even read this thread title, or what it's about...LOL :rolleyes:

[Fresia]

I'm not manic or mentally ill, Pole. I read the title and the posts and found it an interesting and different topic.
You post what you like (fisting, swallowing cum and STDs) and I post what I like.

If you don't like the subject of the thread then don't read it.
And if you don't like ME then put me on ignore.

[pole_smoker]

I'm not manic or mentally ill, Pole. I read the title and the posts and found it an interesting and different topic.
You post what you like (fisting, swallowing cum and STDs) and I post what I like.

If you don't like the subject of the thread then don't read it.
And if you don't like ME then put me on ignore.
Bumping up old threads and spamming the same stuff over is pointless...especially when you're manic like this, and don't even read thread titles or the actual threads but are a troll.


All this thread is about is a guy that hooked up with another guy for NSA sex and got fucked without a condom, and when he was being fucked wanted it without a condom and had the guy fucking him fuck him without one, and now is claiming it's "rape" when they had consensual sex, and he wanted a dick up his ass without a condom in the heat of the moment.

[tenni]

Thanks for bringing this thead back. Since it happened to a Canadian man, Canadian laws apply if the assault happened in Canada.

Since 2007, the issue of sex without a condom and HIV became conroversial. The Supreme Court of Canada initially held up that if a person with HIV has sex with someone and does not disclose the HIV status that it is an aggravated sexual assault. Every one commits an aggravated sexual assaultwho, in committing a sexual assault, wounds, maims, disfigures or endangers the life ofthe complainant. The issue of endangering the life of the complaintant led to the following conviction being uphead in the Supreme Court of Canada.

In the case of the test case, the man knew that he was HIV and infected many women. I believe that at the time of the ruling at least three of his victims died and the charge became either manslaughter or murder. He is in jail. It was an unusual case as that man knew for years that he was HIV. He lied to the women even when directly asked.

Since that ruling many HIV AID's activsts have fought this decision. Last year, a ruling came down that anyone with a low T count using a condom would not be charged with sexual assault or aggravated sexual assault in Canada.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Experts+knock+that+allows+sexual+assault+charge+di sclosing+status/9801679/story.html


Many know the mental state of one despite his usual denials.

[Annika L]

Bumping up old threads and spamming the same stuff over is pointless...especially when you're manic like this

Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? Does he even realize the irony? How much more pointless when the threads you bump up are the ones you created yourself, especially when your bumping post is the only reply the thread ever received? Wow.

[pole_smoker]

Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? Does he even realize the irony? How much more pointless when the threads you bump up are the ones you created yourself, especially when your bumping post is the only reply the thread ever received? Wow.
Do you even know what irony is? Nope you don't. You also don't know the difference between "your", and "you're". :rolleyes:

Enjoying playing psychologist from your armchair along with tenni? ;) Of course you do.

What happened in the original post of this thread is all way too common among bottoms, and guys who are "versatile" for anal sex.

They get horny during anal sex with a condom, and then beg, demand, and ask to get fucked without a condom.

[elmwood7]

Well unless you were there you don't know what was said,demanded or begged for . Or what wasn't so yours is an armchair assumption about someone you know nothing about. Maybe you should practice what you preach.

[charles-smythe]

Yes, it does seem like rape. But considering that he WILLINGLY let the man into his home WITH the intention of having SOME form of sex with him, I would be worried about my chances of success in a court of law....ditto...

[pole_smoker]

Well unless you were there you don't know what was said,demanded or begged for . Or what wasn't so yours is an armchair assumption about someone you know nothing about. Maybe you should practice what you preach.
If I had $1 for every time I've heard a vers or bottom man beg for a dick without a condom on it, or for the top man to take a condo off and fuck him without a condom I'd be extremely wealthy.

I'm not a bottom or vers at all but my friends who are, and guys I've met who are bottom/vers for anal sex told me how they prefer anal sex without a condom since it feels like an actual dick, and not like a dildo which is what sex with a condom feels like to them.

[Annika L]

Do you even know what irony is? Nope you don't. You also don't know the difference between "your", and "you're". :rolleyes:

Enjoying playing psychologist from your armchair along with tenni? ;) Of course you do.

What happened in the original post of this thread is all way too common among bottoms, and guys who are "versatile" for anal sex.

They get horny during anal sex with a condom, and then beg, demand, and ask to get fucked without a condom.

Hmmm..."a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result"...seems pretty fair to me.

But oooooh, ya got me on the typo! Roasted! Whoa, yer smokin' tonight! :tongue:

[pole_smoker]

Hmmm..."a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result"...seems pretty fair to me.

But oooooh, ya got me on the typo! Roasted! Whoa, yer smokin' tonight! :tongue:
As I posted earlier you don't know what irony is. If I had posted something that was actually ironic, it would have been something that you would have found unexpected.

[pole_smoker]

Yes, it does seem like rape. But considering that he WILLINGLY let the man into his home WITH the intention of having SOME form of sex with him, I would be worried about my chances of success in a court of law.
Indeed. Plus this happened 8 years ago, and I doubt the OP did anything since he was getting fucked, and then got horny and begged to get fucked without a condom on consensually.

[elmwood7]

While you might be right that a lot if not most bottom's do feel that way you still can't without a doubt say ALL bottoms do. And since you weren't there to validate or disprove the claim the OP made your making an assumption. And for those bottoms who say a cock in a condom feels like a dildo their either using the wrong condoms, using too much lube or have a wore out hole.

[charles-smythe]

…Wow all this arguing over a 7 year old post…I’m embarrassed to say that I didn’t notice the date of posting…I shudder to think how heated things would have gotten had it been a current post…

[elian]

I admit that I may be young at this but I have never heard a bottom beg to be fucked without a condom. One or both partners may not think clearly in the heat of the moment and decide not to use them (as happens with straight sex as well). I suspect there are more times that the bottom begs the top to WEAR a condom.

In any event, if the recipient was forcibly coerced into something they did not want, by law (in the US) that's rape. Actually I've been pretty close to that situation myself when I first tried anal sex, but then I resigned myself to the fact that I wanted to see what it felt like..and it's not like my partner was a total douche about it - he obviously cared.

This scenario sounds as though it could've been a random hook-up..which makes it even worse - although again, I'm not sure "degree" of rape really matters. Since you "never stick anything in your ass" I figure that even you could understand that.

[pole_smoker]

I admit that I may be young at this but I have never heard a bottom beg to be fucked without a condom. One or both partners may not think clearly in the heat of the moment and decide not to use them (as happens with straight sex as well). I suspect there are more times that the bottom begs the top to WEAR a condom.

In any event, if the recipient was forcibly coerced into something they did not want, by law (in the US) that's rape. Actually I've been pretty close to that situation myself when I first tried anal sex, but then I resigned myself to the fact that I wanted to see what it felt like..and it's not like my partner was a total douche about it - he obviously cared.

This scenario sounds as though it could've been a random hook-up..which makes it even worse - although again, I'm not sure "degree" of rape really matters. Since you "never stick anything in your ass" I figure that even you could understand that.
Yes you are very naive, and a dizzy queen that needs to get out, and meet more people.

What I described with bottom/vers guys getting all horny for a dick without a condom on it, or want the top guy or guys fucking them to take off a condom happens all the time with bi and gay men that are bottoms/vers for anal sex.

[cuttin2dachase]

It may be an old post, but men violating men still occurs. Getting back on topic, no means no. If a man forces himself on another man it's the same as him forcing himself on a woman. Such a man fully deserves to be labelled a rapist and reported to the authorities as a sex offender. So yes, you were violated and he's lucky bastard that you didn't put paper on him.