IMPEACHMENT!!! ITMFA

[bohemian69]

I do not mean to get political, but I for one am scared and ashamed of how and where this country (the USofA) is headed.

There is currently an online petition at impeachbush.org.
All of the signatures gathered will be presented in Washington D.C. by Cindy Sheehan urging that the process for the articles of impeachment commence, not only for Mr. Bush, but also Mr. Cheney.

For the last 6 years, we the people in this great country have had our civil liberties eroded away, have had Mr. Bush wipe his ass with habeus corpus , taken into a war ( we are still looking for the weapons of mass destruction, right?) illegal wiretapping, etc. etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country, but fear my government.
It is time we 'Impeach the mother fucker already!!'

For all of you who do sign the petition, in advance, Thank You!!

[Ally Kat]

well do Cheney first, we don't want him in the pilots seat openly. Look what a mess we are in with him pulling the strings in the background!

[biwords]

I have some sympathy for the cause, but I don't want to be on the same planet as Cindy Sheehan.

[domill]

Why would you want to impeach Bush?
He's the best stand up comedian you've had in a long time.

And those tricks! Like making Al Qaeda appear in Iraq...

Quality. After George W, do we get to meet his little brother Groucho?

Too bad there are so many collateral victims.

[Herbwoman39]

They're all the same. Every single one of them. Impeach Bush and we'll just get the next lying, power hungry schmuck in line.

Shoot em all and start from scratch.

[Doggie_Wood]

I have some sympathy for the cause, but I don't want to be on the same planet as Cindy Sheehan.

Cindy Sheehan is nothing but a whining shithead! Bush will never get impeached. He's a lame duck president. And the majority of the people of the USA don't want to waste the tax payer's money (our money) on something that would very costly, long and drawn out (look how long the Clinton impeachment took), all the while Bush would still be the Commander in Chief and he would end up not being impeached anyway.
So hon, save yer breath, take a chill pill and just wait for the elections in just a short 16 months.
We may agree to disagree - but I still love ya.
:doggie:

[jem_is_bi]

Forget the impeachment rhetoric.
We have Presidential elections every six years. Rather, the fact that Mr. Bush is president should inspire people to be more informed about who and what they are voting for and perhaps to take the trouble to vote at all. I never voted for Mr. Bush. I knew what he proposed to do and the overall direction he planned for this country.
Also, the President is not the only source of power. Again, we vote for our congressmen every 2 years and senators every six years. Until, the last election, WE, (the few that bother to vote), elected primarily, “yes” men/women to congress for Mr. Bush’s policies and politics.

We need to get better informed and motivated, not use impeachment to create a government crises because we neglected our responsibilities. Forget the disrespect for the President. Let us vote into office a President that will take the country in a different direction. Until then, urge your congressman to forget impeachment. There are more than enough other issues that need work in which progress can be made, even with Mr. Bush as President.

How many of us bother to vote in local elections for mayors, judges, school funding, funding of parks, police, etc. Why am I just one of a very few that do vote in these elections. Local elections will have as much or more impact on your lives as national elections and your vote has much greater weight.

:banghead: :soapbox:

JEM

[FalconAngel]

Forget the impeachment rhetoric.
We have Presidential elections every six years. Rather, the fact that Mr. Bush is president should inspire people to be more informed about who and what they are voting for and perhaps to take the trouble to vote at all. I never voted for Mr. Bush. I knew what he proposed to do and the overall direction he planned for this country.
Also, the President is not the only source of power. Again, we vote for our congressmen every 2 years and senators every six years. Until, the last election, WE, (the few that bother to vote), elected primarily, “yes” men/women to congress for Mr. Bush’s policies and politics.

We need to get better informed and motivated, not use impeachment to create a government crises because we neglected our responsibilities. Forget the disrespect for the President. Let us vote into office a President that will take the country in a different direction. Until then, urge your congressman to forget impeachment. There are more than enough other issues that need work in which progress can be made, even with Mr. Bush as President.

How many of us bother to vote in local elections for mayors, judges, school funding, funding of parks, police, etc. Why am I just one of a very few that do vote in these elections. Local elections will have as much or more impact on your lives as national elections and your vote has much greater weight.

:banghead: :soapbox:

JEM

Jem, that is a wonderful Idea, but the big problem that you are forgetting is that all societies go through different stages. Rome did the same thing and we are following in it's footsteps.
We are currently in the apathy stage. That is why the corrupt bastards got elected in the first place.
The next stage is when the collapse begins. Just like the Roman Empire.
I wish that there were more Americans interested in what was going on in this country, but we have allowed the criminals to take over and now we have to clean up the mess that our own apathy has caused. It's a lot of work, but I believe that it is worth it in the end. Of course, I am a little prejudiced in that area. One of my ancestors fought in the War of Independence.
Our current problems are being exacerbated by party politics. I am a Republican myself, but my allegiance is to my country first and my party last. I, for one, have no problem with seeing our Republican President hung from the highest yardarm for treason.......or at least, impeached.
And I do believe that we need more parties to pick from. The 2 party system clearly doesn't work.

[jem_is_bi]

Need to correct my previous post. We vote for President every 4 years. Although, with this President, it seems like six.

JEM

[jamiehue]

2 trillion,4ooo,lives,oh what a idiot.

[anne27]

My hubby has been doing genealogy research and just found out I'm distantly related to Bush.
Someone get me a barf bag, please! :( :banghead:

[12voltman59]

Last Friday night on Bill Moyers' Journal on PBS Moyers interviewed two people on that edition of the show--John Nichols a legal writer for The Nation who has written a book on the subject, and the other-- Bruce Fein an attorney and Constitutional scholar who happened to write the Articles of Impeachment for Bill Clinton and was the former Assistant US Attorney General under Ronald Reagan--argue that both Bush and Cheney need to undergo impeachment proceedings before their term ends---they say it is not so much for the fact of things Bush and Cheney have done or not done--but because they both have greatly, and dangerously--expanded the powers of the presidency and vice-presidency far beyond the bounds set in the Constitution-and that these powers need to be restricted and "reset" as it were to the way things were before they claimed these unprecedented powers before a new president--whoever that is takes office---

In the interview with Moyers--Fein and Nichols lay out in detail the reasons for impeachement of both Bush and Cheney and what the articles of impeachement would be.

They argue that Bush and Cheney do not need to be removed from office--that if they did admit they exceeded the normal bounds of their respective offices--and agree that the powers need to go back to the way they were before they took office--that would be sufficient

The argument does sound good to me---as it now stands---the way Cheney has conducted himself as VP certainly far exceeds the bounds of what has been the way things have been done by the Veep and Bush has granted unto himself--powers that almost make him monarchical instead of presidential---and to allow those powers to remain in the hands of any president--fundamentally changes by fiat---the very essential nature of our government---


Here is the link to the show---you can download a podcast of the show and see what these men have to say and make up your minds for yourselves:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html

It is also mentioned---a recent public opinon poll conducted by The American Research Group indicate that 45% of Americans now favor impeachment of both Bush and Cheney....

[jem_is_bi]

Obviously, the consensus of all that have posted (myself included) is that this President has damaged the Nation.
However, I am not convinced that impeachment will fix the problem. I thought it was a terrible idea to impeach Mr. Clinton, even though he took personal advantage of his position and lied afterward. I do not see how that reset any power balance. The problem is the legislative branch and the judicial branch did not put limits on either of Mr. Bush or Mr. Cheney, as set forth in the constitution.
Given the present Supreme Court, it is unlikely the judicial branch will limit this President or a future President of similar political disposition. So, Congress needs to be a better steward of our freedoms and use of the military. More importantly, we need to be well informed and actually vote in elections for all levels of government. The strength of the nation and pool of candidates for national election will be derived from those elected at local and state levels. If you want better presidential choices, then elect better local and state mayors, governors, etc.

However, even if we impeach every president from now on, it will not help, unless we elect Presidents that will NOT go beyond leading the nation. This President was always about having it his way and if we wanted to follow that was even better, but not necessary. He was given the power to ignore us by us. I am not sure why less than half those who voted in the last Presidential election realized this was an integral part of his character and beliefs.

JEM

[ghytifrdnr]

While we're busy impeaching (which is a good idea regardless the cost), maybe we can give a little time and effort to support the campaign of Rep. Ron Paul.
:2cents:

[AstroGlide]

Ron Paul is like a vision of unequaled fairness and balance. It is a shame that he is running so far in the background.
His support base is weak and he will never be a mainline figure in national politics because he is so freakin' fair and logical that other politicians (out of their personal agendas of greed) would never, never throw their weight behind him.
He is different in that he distances himself from the typical mold of 'politician'.
It's a damned shame that someone of his caliber will never be president of the United States.
But, but..... one can hope, can't one?

[kneadingtom]

I agree that the country is not in great shape. I absolutely DISAGREE with any attempt to impeach the Pres and VP.

First of all, if that occured Nancy Pelosi would become President. The Limousine Liberal that had to have a bigger plane, haha.

Second, we have three branches of government for a reason, checks and balances. President Bush and VP Cheney DO NOT have all the authority that everyone seems to give them credit for. As a group Congress has much more power than the executive branch.

Congress APPROVED the war in Iraq - WMD or NOT, Hussein needed to be removed from power. He was allowed to defy the UN for far too long - mainly because the other world powers have no balls and our previous Commander In Chief was too busy getting hummers in the oval office.

Don't even get me started on SLICK WILLY! Or his Overbearing, two-faced wife.

The President is on his way out. We need a Liberal Republican or a Conservative Democrat. I say bring on Rudy Giuliani!!!

[BareHunter45]

I disagree...the previous adminitsration was no better. What makes you think that getting rid of Bush will really get you anythin different.

BTW...KFC is offering a Hillary special....Two fat thighs...small breast ....and a large left wing!...all for .02...that is all it is worth.

There is not one candidate out there right now, Democrat or Republican that want to vote for.

BareHunter45

[Bicuriousity]

The fear is that we will just start impeaching every president.

We are at a time when partisans are damaging the country on both sides. Remember shortly after 9/11 when we are all united? It's scary how much hatred there is on both sides of the political parties.

I'm proud to be an independent.

As an independent though there is one name I'm hoping will run. That is one Mr. Fred Thompson. Let's restore a little Law and Order to the White House after so many years of Clintons and Bush's!

[kneadingtom]

The fact of the matter is ... an Independent has zero chance of ever winning. The Republican and Democratic parties are so strong and powerful it is unlikely another party will ever have a chance.

So, my friends, as good as the candidate may be DON'T waste your vote on an independent... I voted for Ross Perot (I was 18 or 19 and naive).

[kittylovers]

well do Cheney first, we don't want him in the pilots seat openly. Look what a mess we are in with him pulling the strings in the background!
I agree here... I've heard Cheney on "Meet The Press" and he really is doing his evil deeds. Bush is, well, an idiot. Either way, bush does need to go - he's thoroughly convinced he'll take all his oil money to hell with him and buy a nice cool spot.
How come they never talk about the trade deficit? How come they ignore the health care system?? How come it's all about terrorism??? If you ask me, they (Bush & Cheney) are the real terrorists here! I remember them talking about "if the democrats get into the White House, they'll be soft on terrorism and we'll have another 9/11". What a load of shit!
I used to consider myself a republican - "conservative" - but I kinda mixed it up with "preserve" - I'd rather keep America great! What made America great? Americans working to make this home a better place is what.
I'll keep it short - I could go on and on about the current staff that's screwing us, but I don't wanna get in a bad mood today... :rolleyes: :2cents:

[AdamKadmon43]

Ron Paul is like a vision of unequaled fairness and balance. .
It's a damned shame that someone of his caliber will never be president of the United States.

I totally agree with you, but I'm gonna vote for him anyhow. It will be a wasted vote, but it will make me feel as though at least I tried to do something.

Adam

[FalconAngel]

Has anyone noticed that when there is a drop in Emperor Bush's approval rating, there is a terror alert within the next day or two?

If the police handled crime the way we deal with terrorists, the jails would be empty.
And I speak from a small degree of experience in this particular area.

[Doggie_Wood]

If the police handled crime the way we deal with terrorists, the jails would be empty.
And I speak from a small degree of experience in this particular area.

And just which jail were you a member of Falcon?? ROFLMAO
Sorry, just couldn't help myself. :bigrin:

:doggie:

[Doggie_Wood]

The fear is that we will just start impeaching every president.

We are at a time when partisans are damaging the country on both sides. Remember shortly after 9/11 when we are all united? It's scary how much hatred there is on both sides of the political parties.

I'm proud to be an independent.

As an independent though there is one name I'm hoping will run. That is one Mr. Fred Thompson. Let's restore a little Law and Order to the White House after so many years of Clintons and Bush's!

I agree - just like everybody is suing everybody else. It's all in a big frenzie.

The Repub and the Dems, all based on incomplete intell, voted to give Bush the authority to do the war on terror and go into Afganistone and Iraq(puk).

Bush didn't lie about the WMDs. He stated what the intell he (and the joint chiefs along with high ranking Dems and Repubs) was given.
So the war didn't go as expected. Neither did Vietnam. And the main reason these conflicts or wars don't go well, ever, is because the assholes in the Senate and the Congress think they know more about fighting a war that the friggin generals and admirals (who have more knowhow in doing just that).
The idiots we elect to represent us in Washington want to put pork in the legislation for war and conflicts - to apeese the lobbyists who stick money in there pockets. They want to micro manage the war from a friggin desk
So if you really want to impeach someone - get the fugging assholes, like Kennedy out of there. :2cents:

And I think Fred Thompson is going to get the GOP nomination as a liberal Republican. I will vote for him.
As far as Ossama - takes his oath of office on a Kuran - Obbama, NO FUCKING WAY!! I don't trust the asswipe!
As far as Hillary ramRodumupyourass Clinton, NO FUCKING WAY!! Female version of slicked ass Willie. Don't trust her either. She's more of a flipflop as Al -invented the internet - Gore. HA! :2cents:

GO FRED GO ! GO FRED GO ! GO FRED GO !

:doggie:

[FalconAngel]

And just which jail were you a member of Falcon?? ROFLMAO
Sorry, just couldn't help myself. :bigrin:

:doggie:

Actually, my experience is with dealing with terrorism while in the military overseas during the early 80's. :bigrin:
I have had the benefit of training with some of the finest CT units in Europe. And the Isreali's had the right idea in the 70's.

[ghytifrdnr]

So, my friends, as good as the candidate may be DON'T waste your vote on an independent... I voted for Ross Perot (I was 18 or 19 and naive).

Oh, I so disagree!! The wasted vote is the vote cast for someone you don't really want, but vote for anyway because you think they can win.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[nothings5d]

All this political talk and someone mentioned we need more than 2 parties, but most people fail to realize that we've had a third party president. That shows that we CAN have people outside of the two primary parties. Of course Teddy Roosevelt was TECHNICALLY a Republican, but he did get elected on the Progressive Party (Bull Moose) ticket.

[MetaSexual2]

The Bush administration has committed at the minimum, 2 major crimes, both of which the President has now either personally admitted to (#1) or acknowledged happened in his administration (#2) and which a majority of constitutional and legal scholars agree are crimes. This is about law and order. The President and Vice President need to be impeached to make an example out of them for future administrations and to restore our system of government to a constitutional democracy.

The case for impeachment is on most strong legal grounds on:
1) Warrantless wiretapping of US citizens
2) The exposure of an active CIA agent

but there are a whole host of other issues in which the administration has likely stepped over the line, and which would probably come out in an impeachment process (use of torture, govt. corruption, etc.) No matter how you try to spin the two issues I mention above, they are clearly crimes in terms of the laws as they are on the books.

PS I am not a Democrat and not particularly liberal in outlook, so this has nothing to do with partisanship. We must return our country to the rule of law immediately.

[spartca]

It's interesting that someone mentioned Teddy Roosevelt... he was the first to really start expanding the President's powers with the Roosevelt corollary to the Monroe Doctrine. While he was socially liberal within the US, his foreign policy was quite imperialistic. For example, when Columbian parliament asked for more money for the Ithsmus of Panama than we wanted to pay, he declared a "democratic uprising" and sent in the Marines to take over the territory that we wanted for the Panama Canal.

All I'm trying to say is that this country has been headed in this direction for at least 100 years, and arguably since the rise of corporations after the Civil War in the 1850s. So we're already about 150 years into a long slide into corruption on a massive scale people.

One might even argue that the constitution itself was something of a farce. The European Union actually put its human rights protections into the main document, as opposed to our Bill of Rights, which was added as a series of amendments, and therefore so much more easily suspended. Really a whole lot more of the Constitution is devoted to property rights - how to make sure those with money keep it. Wealth has always been the law of this land, since we stole it from the natives.

[meteast chick]

My hubby has been doing genealogy research and just found out I'm distantly related to Bush.
Someone get me a barf bag, please! :( :banghead:

OMG I'm so sorry! I know what you mean though, because my dad always said if I ran into trouble I could just call up my cousin Judy...as in Judy Baar Topinka, REPUBLIC State Treasurer and former Governor nominee of Illinois. Yeah I'm just happy it's rather distant cousins. Hell I voted against the woman! I didn't give a shit if she was the first woman to get that post or run for Governor.

Hey and for the record I have been able to vote 3 times in my life, and I voted Democrat all 3 times and LOST! So what I'm going to keep voting that way as long as the Republicans come up with American Idiots like George. We all know Cheney pulls the puppet strings though! Impeachment won't happen but with any luck the American public and Congress is making his life hell!

luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxoxoxox
meteast

[hudson9]

Bush didn't lie about the WMDs. He stated what the intell he (and the joint chiefs along with high ranking Dems and Repubs) was given.
So the war didn't go as expected. Neither did Vietnam. And the main reason these conflicts or wars don't go well, ever, is because the assholes in the Senate and the Congress think they know more about fighting a war that the friggin generals and admirals (who have more knowhow in doing just that).
:doggie:

Bush DID lie, the intelligence was COOKED. When Cheney didn't like the intel he was getting from CIA and DIA, he set up his own unit to re-package and "re-interpret" the intel. Objections by CIA experts to things like the Aluminum tubes were rephrased and relegated to footnotes. Joe Wilson's finding that there was no substance to the Niger yellow cake was completely ignored. When the UN weapons inspectors kept saying "found nothing" (including at sites specifically sent to them by Bush/Cheney), they were ignored. When the foreign intelligence agency that initially reported a "possible" meeting between Al Qaida rep and Sadam rep subsequently said "sorry, evidence NG" (and the Al Qaida guy was actually shown to have been in Florida at the alleged time of the meeting) Cheney ignored it, and continued to cite it as "evidence." And, a British aid to Tony Blair, after being briefed before the war at the White House, reported in a memo to Blair that "the intelligence is being fixed to the policy."

As far as letting the generals fight the war -- Rumsfeld overruled generals that wanted more troops for the invasion and occupation (even dismissing one). And the Congress has up to now given Bush EVERYTHING he has asked for -- from the initial resolution, to every supplemental appropriation, up to this troop surge -- so, for SIX YEARS, Congress has let Bush and HIS generals do EXACTLY what they've wanted -- AND IT HAS WORKED SO WELL!!

So, lies and incompetence. Yup, just what I want in my chief executive.

[biwords]

None of that shows that Bush (as opposed to Cheney) lied. I'm no expert here, but I find it more plausible that your President was more or less deliberately misinformed and repeated in good faith what he had been told.

[Ally Kat]

All this political talk and someone mentioned we need more than 2 parties, but most people fail to realize that we've had a third party president. That shows that we CAN have people outside of the two primary parties. Of course Teddy Roosevelt was TECHNICALLY a Republican, but he did get elected on the Progressive Party (Bull Moose) ticket.

No he didn't, he ran for it as a Bull Moose Progressive, but Wilson won that election(1912), because TR and Taft split the Republican vote.


Sorry the history teacher in me reared it head there

[azirish]

People seem to have selective memory when it goes to Bush. He on one hand is the most stupid retard to walk the earth, on the other he is the most intelligent diobolical maniac know to mankind. Please pick one and stick with that. I've read several outright misinformation already posting in just the thread. I know Bill Jeff was the "only" decent honorable president to some members of this board. Does anyone remember December of 1998 with Bill Jeff and Albert (lucky Albert invented the internet!..thanks) launced tomahawk missles in Iraq?...guess not it was Bill Jeff who ordered that. He (Bill Jeff) specially mentioned Saddams WND production as a reason for launceing the attactk. I know Bill Jeff was president then, so that excuses everything. Lets not also forgot it was Bill Jeff and Albert, and Hitlery (remember she voted for and saw the same intelligence when she voted YES to launch an attack on Iraq) who were continuily bringing up Saddams WND programs before Bush was even in office. Simply hating Bush/Cheney etc. doesn't make anything untrue. If you think that simply "appeasing" terrorist, will make you safe...you're already in trouble.

[spartca]

None of that shows that Bush (as opposed to Cheney) lied. I'm no expert here, but I find it more plausible that your President was more or less deliberately misinformed and repeated in good faith what he had been told.

I like to call Bush Jr. the hood ornament on the Cadillac of state. He's definitely not driving.

[wolfcamp]

As far as Ossama - takes his oath of office on a Kuran - Obbama, NO FUCKING WAY!! I don't trust the asswipe!

I did several searches about this and I couldn't find anything credible. Maybe you could post your source. Are you sure you aren't confusing Obama with Keith Ellison from Minnesota?



As far as Hillary ramRodumupyourass Clinton, NO FUCKING WAY!! Female version of slicked ass Willie. Don't trust her either. She's more of a flipflop as Al -invented the internet - Gore. HA! :2cents:

GO FRED GO ! GO FRED GO ! GO FRED GO !
:doggie:

What is it exactly that you don't like about Hillary? Is it the fact that she's a woman? Or, maybe she's an ASSERTIVE woman. What has she flip-flopped on, exactly?

I actually did pretty well during the Clinton years. My job was secure and my income increased every year. The economy was booming. Under Bush I constantly worried about my job because of outsourcing and downsizing. Right now I'm scrambling to find any kind of affordable health care. (Health Gambling is a better name for it.) I'm in school and I'm paying higher rates for my school loans because of ol' W. I don't dare use my credit cards because the banks are allowed to use any little glitch to charge usury interest rates. Yup, it's been great under ol' W (if you're rich).

I don't really know anything about Thompson. Has he done anything while he's been in Congress? I think people like him because he looks good on TV. Would he be for policies that help everyone, and not just the rich? I don't think people are going to put up with more of the same. How does he stand on healthcare? Education? Federal budget and the national debt? Taxes? Outsourcing? Jobs? Lobbyists? Environment? Energy? Trade? Globalism? What would he do to regain America's respect in the world? If you could convince me that he will help 'ME' and the things I care about, and not just his rich fiends (like the current administration), then I'd vote for him too. Until then, I'm skeptical.

[mick123]

azirish and dogwood touche !!!!! the liberals on this web site have such hatred for Bush because of what he stands for ( rep. and conservatives) they overlook the good he actually has done .... you (liberals) how are your stocks , the market hit 14000 yesterday ! You blamed him for the bad stock market when it was around 9000 where is the credit ? also what is the unemployment rate in the US it 4.5% We almost have full employment ! again where is the credit? I know you will say their bad jobs. Its better than no job? the Michigan Gov. is a dem. and of course all of MI. problems are Bush's fault. How are the bad designs of cars and the lack of insight on the part of GM and Ford Bush's fault ? He won't be impeached He has done nothing wrong,read the constitution (if you can read)Their is a lot I can't stand about Bush He is too liberal... tax cuts too small, Harriet Meyers? not putting enough troops in Iraq, immigration.the list goes on... but its not your reasons! and I agree GO FRED GO!

[liquidcandycain]

hmmmmmm
sitting here a us soldier this kind of put me in a odd position on one hand I have taken an oath to defend the right for someone to say what they will about someone of whom we as a collective whole put where he is while at the same time sacrificing my right most of the time to say what I feel about the president of the usa (he is after all the commandeering chief) but on the other I don’t think in a world of cnn fox MSNBC and such the American people fully know what the hell is going on I for one have seen the places you only see on TV and its a double edged sword we are helping these people and at the same time we are dying doing it often to the eyes of people who are un wanting of the help and yes it pisses me off ever sat on a road side on a Saturday night and watched a few guys you just had a conversation about there kids burn to death while at home your friends are out playing it makes ya think what the hell am I doing this for well ill tell ya for a idea that everyone can have the right to do what we are doing just think in Iraq a web site like this is punishable by death

so back to the question should we impeach bush I don’t think so I do think his time in office is nigh but hey politicians only have a 4 year shelf life where as our rights don’t I agree that the American government has wiped its ass with the bill of rights and the constitution right under our noses and threes not a damn thing we can do about it however you might ask how and why, we the people caused this take free speech for instance call someone a nigger or faggot on the street and all the sudden you are a racist did the gov do this nope we did and the president backed by congress signed the bills cause that’s what we wanted when the towers fell we went to war why cause the American people cried out why something’s got to be done and the president did we didn’t go to Iraq looking for wmd’s we went for the war on terror at the crying of the American people now the subject has died down and all these new offices have opened like fema and dept of home land security and now everyone is pissed they cant carry a gun or get on a plain with nail clippers try deploying and having some asshole tell you to give up your clippers and you say ok let me lay down my rifle and pistol and bayonet so I can give you fucking nail clippers we did it in the name of everyone having the need to feel warm and fuzzy backed by congress signed by Mr. bush

So should we impeach him or us?

hey I just protect your rights im told when and where to die and all I ask is that you people speak your mind whether good bad or ugly it’s the basic rights that people need to stand up for that keeps people like me in uniform for a reason and we ask nothing in return except a nice pay raise and maybe tax exemption ever seen a sgt’s paycheck it isn’t much lol

[wolfcamp]

hmmmmmm
.......
hey I just protect your rights im told when and where to die and all I ask is that you people speak your mind whether good bad or ugly it’s the basic rights that people need to stand up for that keeps people like me in uniform for a reason and we ask nothing in return except a nice pay raise and maybe tax exemption ever seen a sgt’s paycheck it isn’t much lol

liquidcandycain

First of all, nice avatar. Seriously.

I respect your position, and I respect your commitment. Our country certainly could not be the country it is without our strong military. I'd like to see you get your pay raise, and I'd like to see you get your tax exemption. But if all the CEOs of all the Fortune 1000 companies were asked to give up their tax breaks so that you could get yours, I think I know what their answers would be. That's what really pisses me off.

I'm taking math class and I had an ex-marine sitting next to me the first couple of weeks. I knew he was a marine because the prof had us all give our backgrounds on the first day of class. One day I noticed the marine was shaking so bad he could hardly write. A day or two later he asked me for help with a math problem. I asked if he had been to Iraq. He said, '3 times'. I asked if it had an affect on him. He said he saw some pretty bad stuff. Then he said, "I have some issues. I'm trying to deal with them." He disappeared from class after about the third week. I felt bad for the kid. I know he was trying really hard. I wondered if he got the help he needed. I think there are a lot of kids just like him out there.

I have a couple of questions, and I ask them with no disrespect.

First, what do you think the final outcome will be in Iraq?

Second, do you think all the fighting and dying in Iraq will prevent a half dozen bad guys from setting off a suitcase bomb in downtown Chicago?

I'd like to see all of you come home.

[liquidcandycain]

To wolfcamp

Good point lol I don’t the ceo's of today would do it we do ok but you do get good at learning how to juggle cash lol but when we are deployed we make some real good pay

but to answer you question I don’t think that what we are doing is going to have to much of an effect there are to many country's supporting these groups that have the power if you take them out of the subject we could fix that country in a year or so and the people are ready for it but they are scared but hey to become a nation we had to fight for our rights

in the long run I think we will pull out only to go north lol Iran keeps picking a fight with us afghan is just as bad I still haven’t figured out what the hell were doing there lol but I soon will :bigrin:

And if someone wanted to do some major major damage to the us all they have to do is think abit how many times have you set in backed up traffic for a long time in a downtown city I mean why we haven’t or the fact we haven’t been it again surprises me

[curious married m]

No he didn't, he ran for it as a Bull Moose Progressive, but Wilson won that election(1912), because TR and Taft split the Republican vote.


Sorry the history teacher in me reared it head there


Hmmmm, Politics & Ally Kat, Is it time for a naked cartwheel Ally? :tong: :bigrin: :rotate: :bounce: :devil:

[scubaman]

First and foremost, my honest and most sincere thanks to liquidcandycain and the other military reading this post. I am retired with 21 years of military service to this country.

I am reading these posts and shaking. I read the first posts shortly after it cam out and decided not to respond. However, I will now.

The majority is in favor of impeaching the President, saying he has lied, gone out of bounds with illegal wire tapping, exceeded the bounds of the office. I propose to you, could you do a better job?? The person sitting in the oval office is under extreme pressure, and has to make decisions on a daily basis which will affect many people of this country. At least he is making those decisions and sticking to his decision, no matter who thinks what and no matter what the "ratings" are. Think back to the last presidential election. We could have had a person, Kerry, who would constantly change his mind, not give a definative answer, and was all over the page! Right after 9-11, everybody was behind the President, flying flags, praising the decisions of the President, and wanting to get the cowardly terrorist who had the nerve to attack us on our own soil. I was pissed off and active duty at the time, as was deployed overseas at the time with my family here, and by a major military installation and had no ability to contact them! However, I was willing to do what we had to do, and what the Commander in Chief ordered his military to do. Remember, we have not had an attack on our soil since. Since then, we have made great strides in our intell, we have a better grip on who is entering our country, and keep an eye on cells here in this country, etc. Is that such a bad thing? Illegal wire taps? They are listening to protect our country and there are limitations on the tapping of phones. Personally I feel the news media is out of control and we, the citizens have access to too much information and we do not need to know everything. I know for a fact I have read papers and watched news channels and heard classified information being broadcast. A large part of the problem is the news people and I firmly believe they influence approval polls, and our feelings about the President by the angle in which they tell a certain story.

If you don't like what is going on, I would recommend you become active in politics, run for an office, contact your states elected House Members, Senate Members, and oh by the way, a short poll of those who are speaking of impeachment, did you vote????? One final thought, I feel the Army and Marine Corp is suffering from the cuts the previous administration made in the military. This is from a personnel and equipment standpoint. This is only a personal opinion and thank those fighting men and women who have given their lives or willing to for you to have the ability to speak your minds openly and freely, even that nut Cindy Sheehan!

[hudson9]

I've read several outright misinformation already posting in just the thread.
OK -- so, time for a fact check.

...and Albert (lucky Albert invented the internet!..thanks)...
Al Gore never claimed he invented the internet (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp). He was intentionally misquoted. Gore was, in fact, one of the earliest proponents of the networks and technology that became "the internet." In 1988 (when did you first even hear of "the internet"?) Gore sponsored the National High-Performance Computer Act. In 1992 he cosponsored the Information Infrastructure and Technology Act of 1992. And in recognition of his help in creating the interntet, in 2005 he received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Webby Awards, were he was praised by Vint Cerf (referred to by almost everyone as the "father of the Internet").

...launced tomahawk missles in Iraq?...guess not it was Bill Jeff who ordered that. He (Bill Jeff) specially mentioned Saddams WND production as a reason for launceing the attactk. I know Bill Jeff was president then, so that excuses everything.
Many analyists believe that it was due to a combination of the sanctions, and the 1998 Desert Fox bombing campaign, that by 2001, there WAS NO Iraq WMD program. In any event, the comment was a non-sequitor. I didn't see anyone in this thread praising Clinton. I certainly didn't.

...Lets not also forgot it was Bill Jeff and Albert, and Hitlery ... who were continuily bringing up Saddams WND programs...
Actually, it was Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaida that the Clinton transition team (including Sandy Berger and Richard Clarke) were trying to warn Bush/Cheney about, which warnings were ignored.

...If you think that simply "appeasing" terrorist, will make you safe...you're already in trouble.
?Impeaching Bush & Cheney will appease terrorists? I didn't hear anyone asking for anything that could be construed as appeasing a terrorist. I want the people responsible for making 9/11, and Madrid, and London, possible brought to justice. Who and where are these people? --
The country that has supplied the most money to terrorist jihadist organizations? -- Saudi Arabia
The country that has provided safe haven to the most terrorists? -- Pakistan
Where are Bush/Cheney fighting terrorists "so we don't have to fight them over here"? -- Iraq ("No operational or cooperative relationship existed between Iraq and Al Qaida" -- 9/11 Commission Report)

If you wish to make a persuasive argument, you might try using verifiable facts, rather than merely using derogatory nick-names.

[scubaman]

?Impeaching Bush & Cheney will appease terrorists? I didn't hear anyone asking for anything that could be construed as appeasing a terrorist. I want the people responsible for making 9/11, and Madrid, and London, possible brought to justice. Who and where are these people? --
The country that has supplied the most money to terrorist jihadist organizations? -- Saudi Arabia
The country that has provided safe haven to the most terrorists? -- Pakistan
Where are Bush/Cheney fighting terrorists "so we don't have to fight them over here"? -- Iraq ("No operational or cooperative relationship existed between Iraq and Al Qaida" -- 9/11 Commission Report)

If you wish to make a persuasive argument, you might try using verifiable facts, rather than merely using derogatory nick-names.

Outstanding remarks hudson! I could not agree with you more! Thanks for the post!

[azirish]

OK -- so, time for a fact check.

Al Gore never claimed he invented the internet (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp). He was intentionally misquoted. Gore was, in fact, one of the earliest proponents of the networks and technology that became "the internet." In 1988 (when did you first even hear of "the internet"?) Gore sponsored the National High-Performance Computer Act. In 1992 he cosponsored the Information Infrastructure and Technology Act of 1992. And in recognition of his help in creating the interntet, in 2005 he received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Webby Awards, were he was praised by Vint Cerf (referred to by almost everyone as the "father of the Internet").

Many analyists believe that it was due to a combination of the sanctions, and the 1998 Desert Fox bombing campaign, that by 2001, there WAS NO Iraq WMD program. In any event, the comment was a non-sequitor. I didn't see anyone in this thread praising Clinton. I certainly didn't.

Actually, it was Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaida that the Clinton transition team (including Sandy Berger and Richard Clarke) were trying to warn Bush/Cheney about, which warnings were ignored.

?Impeaching Bush & Cheney will appease terrorists? I didn't hear anyone asking for anything that could be construed as appeasing a terrorist. I want the people responsible for making 9/11, and Madrid, and London, possible brought to justice. Who and where are these people? --
The country that has supplied the most money to terrorist jihadist organizations? -- Saudi Arabia
The country that has provided safe haven to the most terrorists? -- Pakistan
Where are Bush/Cheney fighting terrorists "so we don't have to fight them over here"? -- Iraq ("No operational or cooperative relationship existed between Iraq and Al Qaida" -- 9/11 Commission Report)

If you wish to make a persuasive argument, you might try using verifiable facts, rather than merely using derogatory nick-names.




Appeasing is becoming to be in Dhimmitude. Whats a Dhimmi do you ask?...its means to be a servent to Islam. Islams mean submission NOT peace, not co-existence etc. The so called "moderate" Muslims cannot distract from the Salafist or Whabist intepretation of the Koran. Thats why bin Laden and company have a historic backing in their claims. We all here are Dhimmi, not just conservatives, liberals, communists etc. Per the Koran (if you ever choose to verify) you are to give three choices. (as instructed by Mohammed) Also please read online Osma bin Laden decloration of war on American to futher verify,dated August 1996. 1)Call you're ememies to Isam. (meaning convert) 2)Offer for them to pay a Jizya..or a tax on non-muslims, to ensure you're Dhimmtude or submission. 3)If the first and second are not responded to then the Koran instructs Muslims to fight the non-believers. It makes no difference if we or anyone is in the middle east period. The only goal of the islamists are a worldwide caliphant with all nations Sharia or Islamic law. By continuing to fester hate and go crazy over Bush, Clinton, Blair..it only servs the enemies interests. Don't believe anything I write, you can always do research online for backup.

[ghytifrdnr]

This takes the thread in a little different direction, but I thought it worth a read. I think the scenario suggested could easily come to pass.

http://grantdwalker.zaadz.com:80/blog/2007/6/there_will_be_no_election_in_2008
or: http://tinyurl.com/2xboot

:2cents:

[ghytifrdnr]

The previous link was from New Zealand, this one from Russia.
It seems that people outside the U.S. can see what's going on, why can't we?
http://en.rian.ru:80/world/20070720/69340886.html

:( :( :(

[Danielle B]

The previous link was from New Zealand, this one from Russia.
It seems that people outside the U.S. can see what's going on, why can't we?
http://en.rian.ru:80/world/20070720/69340886.html

:( :( :(

Because people outside the U.S. aren't blinded by American exceptionalism?

In my view, the only people still supportive of Bush/Cheney are those who feel that America is right even when it's wrong, and if America does something, it must automatically be right. I don't get outside the U.S. much, but I can only imagine what the rest of the world thinks of us.

[scubaman]

You have got to be kidding? I am to believe what is written in a Russian Paper???? Come on now, Bush and Cheny staging a terrorist attack???? This has now gone beyond personal opinion, this is totally insane! To me, that is printed so that the russians population will belive what is written. Much like Americans blindly believe everyhing they read on various media outlet. All news media is tinted, compare the same story on different media outlets. American citizens do not need to know every single detail of every plan investigation, and document which is written.

Hey, just released on Fox nex, the President Carter is a principle advisor to Bin Laden! How many people will believe that??????? :tong:

[Catherine]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-3.html

This is an executive order that was signed by Bush on July 17th. Look at the wording of this. Where are our rights to reprensentation? Appeal? And is there really any clear guidelines as to what is considered funding Iraq violence?

Lets say you give money to a campaign fund to a candidate that has advocated pulling out of Iraq like Hillary for instance? Is she a "significant risk?" Then this executive order just might apply to you.

Here's a full posting of all his Executive Orders to date. He has done some good things, but the thing that has me worried is that in an effort to "secure" American's safety, our rights are being systematically repealed?
Executive Orders (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/orders/)

[deeTM]

I wasn't going to reply to this post since I don't normally engage in political discussions. But in this and a few other occasions I feel like weighing in. Some people hate Bush. On what do you base your hatred? What you get from CNN, ABC, NBC... If you hear stuff from the Liberal Networks and that spurs you to do more research on your own. I salute you. If you take the word of one group and base your opinion completely on that then I give you a different salute. If you think that freeing the Iraqi people from someone like Saddam isn't worth the sacrifice... I don't know what to say to you. I agree that we're in a tough situation. Because those that hate us, yes, me and you because we are American or those that hate us, again me and you because we aren't Muslim want to kill us and make us look bad in front of the rest of the world community. If you try to talk about the deaths of all of our guys and girls in the military you had damn well have better been in the military or maybe a cop or a fireman or possibly someone who has risked their life to save someone that couldn't do that for themselves. Otherwise you have no room to talk. I was, just in case you wanted to know in the military and understood what it meant when I signed up. I knew that I might someday be asked to fight and possibly die. If I didn't agree with that then I would have never signed on the dotted line. I was willing to put my life on the line for you and every other person in this country. Question: When we joined in on WW2 the Japanese attacked us. So did we just go after Japan? No, we went after Germany and their allies as well. Did we do a good thing by getting the Germans under Hitler to quit killing the Jews and everyone else that wasn't a part of their crowd? Or was it good because once we kicked their butt there was an end in sight. Do any of the folks realize that after that war we didn't just pick up and leave? We still have military bases in quite a few of the countries we went to back then. Ramstein Air Force Base Germany ring any bells. It may take a long time to rebuild Iraq. I for one support the rebuilding effort. Once we took on the responsibility of removing the people in power we took on the responsibility to lend a helping hand to that country. Just like we did for Germany and probably a few others that I'm not aware of at the moment. And yes, I consider myself fairly ignorant on the subject just in case you were wondering. I'm nowhere near being immune to ignorance. So those of you that are on our goverment's case I want to remind you that the unemployment rate is lower now than it has been in years. Our economy is rocking. Giving big business tax breaks does in fact help me as a little guy. And so what if a gallon of gas costs $3. Other countries are paying a lot more for less fuel (England). Check it out if you don't believe me. One more thing, if you don't like the way the country is going. Quit whining and vote in every election you can or better yet, get in the process. Run for office. Maybe, just maybe you can do a better job.

Dee.

[biwords]

If you think that freeing the Iraqi people from someone like Saddam isn't worth the sacrifice... I don't know what to say to you. Dee.

But Dee, the armed forces of the US were not created as some kind of international charitable organization, but to defend the interests of the United States. As John QUincy Adams said in his great Fourth of July speech, in 1821, the US "goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own".

If, on the other hand, you see America's mission as fighting every evil everywhere, you are going to spend a lot of blood and treasure without benefiting your country. Are women being oppressed in Afghanistan? What about non-Muslims in Darfur? Look, this African tribe is in danger! etc. etc. Every American baby will be born, potentially, into indentured service or worse, since his or her life can now be sacrified to the needs of any oppressed person anywhere, anytime. And while you expend your blood and treasure settling foreign problems, China operates by John Quincy Adams's principle, doing only what's good for China and getting stronger and stronger in the process. Fast forward a hundred years, and who will be ruling the roost?

[FalconAngel]

In addition to that, it was the United States that helped to place S.H. in power in Iraq.
We wanted a leader in that country that would be an ally to us and to bring stability to that country. We got stability there, but that same leader that WE PLACED IN POWER who spread so much anti-American rhetoric, invaded a sovereign nation and killed his own people by the thousands. WE PUT HIM THERE in the first place. Thanks to our wonderful boys in the CIA (George Sr. was head of the agency at the time).

As far as that executive order, it is a Carte Blanche to invade anyone at any time whenever we suspect that they MIGHT be supporting the insurgents in Iraq. Unfortunately, it is NOT a directive aimed at terrorists at all.
If the police dealt with crime the way that Emperor Bush deals with terrorism, the jails would be devoid of criminals and filled with civilians.

[Aravanww]

Ahhh but the biggest thing everyone is forgetting is this....
by the time you get the justice system moving, and get thier collective heads out of thier collective arses... the impeachment would run out of time as the election would be here already. Look at the clinton fiasco.. it never made it past the starting gate.
wait for next nov. and vote for Donald Duck.. can't do any worse than the other animated cartoons that have been in the oval office!

[liquidcandycain]

the guy above me has got it when hilary yes hilary lmao takes the office it will be all over and did anyone read there will be no election in 2008 kinda a dooms day thing ahhh i dont foresee us droppping nukes on n korea that would piss off china and s korea and have you seen that country i have been on the dmz they would just go deeper in the ground i dunno i think we all just neeed to get the all the world leaders together and lock the doors then pump huge amounts of dank smoke in side then dropp a 1 ton bale in the room and see what happens when the smoke clears :cool: maybe we could get congress in the and sign a legalization bill at the same time :eek:

[deeTM]

Thanks for the reply Biwords. This is probably where I stick my foot even further into my mouth but...

What I stated above was certainly biased by my opinion. In addition, that was Quincy's opinion and spoken during a time when the US really didn't have that much power. As I stated before I am more ignorant than knowledgeable especially when speaking of history. Don't read stupid into what I mean by that. Ignorance is merely a measure of the amount of information one may possess. We certainly have interest in the stability of that region. Although, the majority of our oil does not come from the middle east. Rather the majority of the oil we consume comes from South America. If my information is incorrect on that or anything else I say, please correct me but send me a link to the info you have access to as well (we could have an interesting conversation). All of that being said, I doubt that we as a country will ever just go intervene in a countries problems without some advantage or perceived advantage.

Also, as I was thinking before. If you only get your info from one type of source you probably aren't getting the whole story. If you don't like the way things are going don't just complain, vote or run for office. Who knows, I might even vote for you.

And no, Bush will never be impeached (lame duck Pres.). Also, just in case you were wondering, I didn't care who was sucking on Clinton's "ahem" cigar.

Dee.

[Doggie_Wood]

.......... And the Isreali's had the right idea in the 70's.

Then we do agree ...... on at least one thing.

:doggie:

[Catherine]

All of that being said, I doubt that we as a country will ever just go intervene in a countries problems without some advantage or perceived advantage.

Then we are hegemonists at best and empirists at worst. Yeah, Bush is a lame duck president, but he still has a year to go. And in the relatively short time (7 years is short compared to the last 100) he's done more damage to the environmental laws, infrastructure and foreign policy relations than any president in the last 35 years. He has done some good things too, mostly for vetrans and churches.

Oil?

We lost what? 3000 people in 911? We have spent BILLIONS of dollars over those people, placing a memorial in New York for those people, and basically beating up the rest of the world over those people. Not saying that they shouldn't be remembered or anything. But those 3000 people in 911 will be remembered for at least 50 years and perhaps longer.

Let me run a few things by you.

5000 CHILDREN die every year in car accidents. 48,000 people give or take a couple hundred, DIE every year in traffic accidents in this country. That doesn't count the 100,000 or so people who are maimed and injured.

There's our memorial to oil. And where's the public outrage on that? *shrug* The Aztec's had NOTHING on us in terms of human sacrifice to their gods, ours being money and convenience. And the federal and state governments keep cutting back on life saving and sustainable mass transit.

We would do better if you want to go "by the numbers" to get our heads out of the past (Because let's face it, hegemony is a waste of time and lives) and deal with ourselves and the globalization we are in.

If we do not, in 50 years, fast forwarding it will not matter, because society as you know it will not be here. And what will take us out? A foreign enemy? No. Nature herself both natural and human.

Global Climate Change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XClNHfmFDog&mode=related&search=)

But in those last 50 years, how do you really want to spend them? Watching your sons and daughters die on some foreign soil halfway around the world while Americans die in massive tornados, floods, heatwaves, with not as many resources here to deal with as we might? So more people die than they should have?

Resources are limited....even for the United States. You know what the end result is of our resources going over seas to kill other people? People trapped three days in a metrodome in New Orleans waiting for help and some of them dying in wheelchairs. 1000s of people dying in general because BUSH ...BUSH ....BUSH ...pulled the funding away from maintaining the levees. The government was warned by engineers and planners what could happen if he did that. But the WAR over 3000 lives was MORE important.

Blog on Levees of New Orleans (http://http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/8/30/212451/290)

And as far as being a world peace keeper. Well that man has FAILED at that too. The reason IRAN is running a nuclear test program right now is that Bush is a black and white thinker who decided that IRAN is always our enemy no matter what, so when IRAN came to Bush and said, "We would like to sit down and work out our differences now that Sadaam H. is out of the picture." Bush told them to go to hell. At that point they began to create their own nuclear program.

Talking to Iran (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_04/008657.php)

We have so many things we should be way oh way more frightened of. And Bush has done NOTHING to prepare this country for that. Nothing at all.

I don't think we have to worrry about ground wars much longer. Bush keeps this up, and the next war will be nuclear. Or in 50 years global warming will be so severe that we willl have the equivalent of a New Orleans every month and the catastrophic effects in market goods and services will be enough to topple society as we know it because we'll be weakened and ripe for a pandemic, war, starvation etc. In other words what you see in Africa right now? It will be here. And that will be that. It's already happening.

[wolfcamp]

I'll share a very funny story with all of you. Hahahahahahaha.
A few years ago (about 3) my credit card number was stolen. It was a card that I used very little. I used it mostly to buy airline tickets to go see my girlfriend on the west coast. I also had used it in a small mom and pop computer store to buy some memory for my girlfriend's computer. That was about it. I rarely use credit cards. I thought there was no way the airlines would compromise my card number, so I figured the slimey computer guy stole the number, although I couldn't prove anything. After working with my credit card company I got it mostly straightened out. One thing I found out was that the perps who ended up with my card were using Stormpay (like Paypal) and a Latvian email address to withdraw money from my card. [Make a note here. Don't ever, ever use Stormpay. They were the only company that wouldn't refund the bogus transactions on my card.]

Fast forward about 18 months. I get a letter from Lexis-Nexis, the database company. They tell me my name was in one of their databases that was hacked. They tell me that my personal information may have been compromised.

WTF. Why in the world would Lexis-Nexis have my name in their database? So I get on the web and start doing some research. I find out that the database was the same one used by the feds to hold information of persons of interest in their illegal domestic spying program. Holy crap. Why would they have my name? I guess it wasn't the computer guy after all who stole my credit card information. It turns out that the feds were outsourcing the database work to a subsidiary of Lexis-Nexis, and their security was so lax that the database was hacked. They claimed that it wasn't ACTUALLY hacked, because someone called in posing as a policeman and talked a clerk out of a password. For your information folks, that's a standard hacker's trick! AND, judging from the email address associated with a transaction on my stolen card, the hackers very likely had terrorist connections. Does anyone see the irony here?

Anyway, it took them at least 18 months after the incident to inform me that my identity may have been compromised. Thanks a lot guys. The damage was done long ago. So then I start to wonder, why did they wait so long to tell me? Did they actually think I was a terrorist suspect? Were they checking me out? Wow. Maybe they saw the speeding ticket I got 7 years ago. Or, maybe they saw that I had been divorced twice. Pretty bad stuff. Maybe they saw that I log into adult websites like this one. Or maybe they just didn't give a shit about their citizens to help them out after they had fucked up. Can you tell I'm a little pissed off. Where's that Bill of Rights? I need to wipe my ass. That's about all it's worth with these guys at the helm.

Maybe they are still watching me. Maybe they are watching the words I'm typing right now. Maybe they are watching all of you because you are reading these words and maybe even responding to them. You are all guilty by association. Are you feeling a little paranoid? Should you? Do you still trust these guys to do the right thing now? Hahahahaha. See? I told you it was funny. Well, I think it's funny because it's done and there is nothing I can do about it. My name is still in that database and there is no way to get it out. Is yours?

This is one fine example of the way the Bush Administration does things. Bill of Rights? Fuck the Bill of Rights. We don't need no stinking Bill of Rights. (I'm being facetious in case anyone can't tell.) I don't want them impeached because I think that would be too hard on the psyche of the country. I remember the Nixon debacle and how it tore the country apart. I'll just be glad when their term is done and they are all gone. Good riddens to them all.

[ghytifrdnr]

OK, here's another good argument for impeachment, and this time it's from the U.S., specifically, CBS News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/20/opinion/main3082466.shtml

[scubaman]

Dec 7, 1941 - The U.S. was attacked by a country hence we entered into WWII. That was a long war, many military men lost their lives yet we embraced them when they returned from the war and in the eyes of the American Public they were heros. Fast forward to Sept 11, 2001, the U.S. was attacked by a group of people, only this time it was a group of average U.S. citizens who were killed in the initial attack. In order to keep the attacks away for our home land, the present administration has enacted laws which in their opinion will help keep the terrorist from mounting another attack here in the U.S. I guess Presiden Bush and his administration could sit around their offices and do nothing and allow terrorist, from whatever organization come over here and kill our friend, wifes, husbands, children etc. Hummmm, much like Carter did when Iran kidnapped Americans and finally mounted a lame attempt for a rescue. Say want you want about the President, however, he has made firm decisions and has stuck to this decisions even though unpopular! I wounder what flavor this thread would have taken if a majority of the news media outlets were in favor of the war? One last thing, after 911, there were flags flying from cars, homes, lapels or suits, everywhere. Where are all those flags now???? Not flying because they are pissed off at the president??? Before anybody asks, yes, I have a flag flying 24-7, during times of darkness it is well lighted so it can be seen proudly flying at night as well. Just a suggestion, try putting is 1/4 amount of the effort in supporting our military men and women and only 3/4 in trying to impeach the man who has kept another attack on our soil!

[wolfcamp]

Dec 7, 1941 - The U.S. was attacked by a country hence we entered into WWII. That was a long war, many military men lost their lives yet we embraced them when they returned from the war and in the eyes of the American Public they were heros. Fast forward to Sept 11, 2001, the U.S. was attacked by a group of people, only this time it was a group of average U.S. citizens who were killed in the initial attack. In order to keep the attacks away for our home land, the present administration has enacted laws which in their opinion will help keep the terrorist from mounting another attack here in the U.S. I guess Presiden Bush and his administration could sit around their offices and do nothing and allow terrorist, from whatever organization come over here and kill our friend, wifes, husbands, children etc. Hummmm, much like Carter did when Iran kidnapped Americans and finally mounted a lame attempt for a rescue. Say want you want about the President, however, he has made firm decisions and has stuck to this decisions even though unpopular! I wounder what flavor this thread would have taken if a majority of the news media outlets were in favor of the war? One last thing, after 911, there were flags flying from cars, homes, lapels or suits, everywhere. Where are all those flags now???? Not flying because they are pissed off at the president??? Before anybody asks, yes, I have a flag flying 24-7, during times of darkness it is well lighted so it can be seen proudly flying at night as well. Just a suggestion, try putting is 1/4 amount of the effort in supporting our military men and women and only 3/4 in trying to impeach the man who has kept another attack on our soil!

Carter was working with a military that was decimated by the Vietnam war, much like our's is now by the Iraq war. Carter ordered the rescue attempt, but the military commanders orchestrated and led it. They are the ones who screwed it up. If you are going to start blaming people then blame eveyone involved. Why didn't they get Bin Laden at Tora Bora? Talk about lame attempts!

And what's your point about the flag and heros? Do you think you are the only one here who appreciates the efforts of the soldiers? NOBODY said they didn't appreciate the efforts of the soldiers. They are being asked to do the impossible, to nation-build, to change the mind set of an entire culture. The people who are not appreciated are the politicians who send the soldiers into stupid wars. The real war was in Afghanistan. Hellooooo.

When somebody doesn't have an argument they start waving the flag. I get so tired of these self-righteous xxxxxxxx who wave the flag in my face and try to say they are more patriotic than me, or better than me, or holier than me, or that they know more than I do. Yeah, I have a flag. I fly it on the 4th of July, and I take it down at night, and I fold it the correct way without letting it touch the ground, just like I learned to do in the Boy Scouts.

What makes you think I and others don't love this country as much or more than you. You make all this talk about the flag and say nothing about the Constitution. The flag is a symbol. The Constitution is a charter by which this country is supposed to operate. There is a difference you know. Elected officials are sworn to protect the Constitution, not the flag. Have you ever heard the phrase "By the people, for the people"? The Constitution has been in effect for 200 years and it works just fine. When I see someone dragging it through the mud I stand up and protest, just like you should if you are as patriotic as you claim. Let me tell you something you obviously didn't know. There was a movement during WWII to do exactly as Bush has tried to do, to suspend the Bill of Rights, but it was defeated as a bad idea. And, as I said before, the domestic spying program, Bush's program, was ruled illegal and was rightfully shut down. We upheld the Constitution during the Cold War, WWII, WWI, The Spanish American War, and everything that went before. I think those were pretty severe threats. There's no reason to change the Constitution now.



I guess Presiden Bush and his administration could sit around their offices and do nothing and allow terrorist, from whatever organization come over here and kill our friend, wifes, husbands, children etc.

They could implement the recommendations of the 911 Commission, which they haven't.



Say want you want about the President, however, he has made firm decisions and has stuck to this decisions even though unpopular!

That's admirable? It's only admirable if his decisions were wise, and many people think they weren't. Look at the polls. Look at the Republicans who are running away from him. There is no way that Bush can reverse his decisions now. To do so would be to admit that his presidency was eight years of incompetence. He's making a desperate attempt to preserve his legacy, and the only way he can do that is to stick to his guns and hope for a miracle.

[hudson9]

We lost what? 3000 people in 911? We have spent BILLIONS of dollars over those people, placing a memorial in New York for those people, and basically beating up the rest of the world over those people. Not saying that they shouldn't be remembered or anything. But those 3000 people in 911 will be remembered for at least 50 years and perhaps longer.

I have not mentioned this before, because I do not believe in waving it around at the drop of a hat. But I think it is relevant here. I lost 2 family members on 9-11, an adult child, and a cousin. On 9-12 I began consuming every piece of information I could find related to 9-11, from US news media (major and minor), the BBC, blogs, think-tanks... everywhere. These things I know:

Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9-11, Al Qaida, or the Taliban. Cheney, AND Bush, and Rumsfeld, Woflowitz, et al. were TOLD this. They choose not to believe it and twisted questionable and equivicating intel. to suit their pre-existing objective -- invading Iraq. The same is true re: WMDs. This information was available before the invasion, to anyone who cared to see it. That is why I opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning. Congress was too COWARDLY to oppose the invasion (including Hillary). It is IRRELEVANT to judging Bush/Cheney, that Congress rolled over for them.

The WTC was NOT destroyed by explosive charges. Bush & Cheney did NOT order the attack in a "burning the Reichstag" type conspiracy. They WERE criminally NEGLIGENT in not taking steps to prepare for terrorist attacks they were told were coming, probably anticipating something smaller that they could use as their "new Pearl Harbor" (Project for the New American Century). They were INCOMPETENT in their response on the day of 9-11, failure to capture Bin Laden, and the occupation and reconstruction of Iraq.

Their justifications for invading Iraq continually change, depending on how weak their current justification looks -- 9/11 terrorists, to WMDs, to "freeing" the Iraqi people from Sadam. (I have met and spoken with Iraqis -- they are not grateful to have been "liberated" only to be thrown into a bloody and indiscriminate civil war.)

The billions that have been spent were not for the 9-11 victims. That is a lie fostered by Bush/Cheney. The billions were spent for their pre-existing agenda. (BTW -- there is no 9-11 memorial at Ground Zero yet, the various competing real-estate interests have not been able to put their greed aside and actually get anything built.)

My heart breaks for the soldiers and their families who have been told that their sacrifices were for avenging 9-11, or protecting us from terrorism, or freeing the Iraqis. They have been lied to, abused, taken advantage of, and then abandoned. The scandal at Walter Reede -- is that how we should treat brave soldiers who were willing to give their lives for us, who have given up limbs? Or refusing to recognize PTSD and honorably discharge soldiers who suffer horrible psychic scars because they served us?

The abuses and lies that Bush/Cheney have foisted on us are not unprecidented in history, but that does not mean that we should stand for them. The United States is supposed to have a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people," not of, by, and for the oil companies, Haliburton, or a neo-con elite. The economy is booming? War is always profitable. Do I want my economic well-being to be at the cost of 3,000+ American dead, many thousands more permanently maimed, not to mention 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead? What should it profit a man that he gain the world, but loose his soul?

My son and cousin died because some people thought their political agenda was more important than innocent people's lives. Those people have not been apprehended. I will not support anyone who believes their political or economic agenda is more important than other innocent lives.

[coyotedude]

Dec 7, 1941 - The U.S. was attacked by a country hence we entered into WWII. That was a long war, many military men lost their lives yet we embraced them when they returned from the war and in the eyes of the American Public they were heros. Fast forward to Sept 11, 2001, the U.S. was attacked by a group of people, only this time it was a group of average U.S. citizens who were killed in the initial attack. In order to keep the attacks away for our home land, the present administration has enacted laws which in their opinion will help keep the terrorist from mounting another attack here in the U.S. I guess Presiden Bush and his administration could sit around their offices and do nothing and allow terrorist, from whatever organization come over here and kill our friend, wifes, husbands, children etc. Hummmm, much like Carter did when Iran kidnapped Americans and finally mounted a lame attempt for a rescue. Say want you want about the President, however, he has made firm decisions and has stuck to this decisions even though unpopular! I wounder what flavor this thread would have taken if a majority of the news media outlets were in favor of the war? One last thing, after 911, there were flags flying from cars, homes, lapels or suits, everywhere. Where are all those flags now???? Not flying because they are pissed off at the president??? Before anybody asks, yes, I have a flag flying 24-7, during times of darkness it is well lighted so it can be seen proudly flying at night as well. Just a suggestion, try putting is 1/4 amount of the effort in supporting our military men and women and only 3/4 in trying to impeach the man who has kept another attack on our soil!

So so so so wrong, my friend - and so little time to point out all the ways you are wrong.

To be fair, Bush is not responsible for Al-Qaeda. But he is responsible for turning Iraq (which, may I remind you, had NOTHING to do with 9/11) into a terrorist training camp, wasting the efforts and lives of the men and women of the American military in the process. (Not to mention the tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives -- but who's counting them?) He's responsible for diverting our efforts from the real fight against Al-Qaeda to follow some crazy dream of establishing a new American empire in the Middle East. (Even the government now says that Al-Qaeda has rebuilt itself with roughly the same capacity as it had on 9/11. So much for eliminating the terrorist threat by our war in Iraq.) He's responsible for squandering the goodwill and cooperation we had from much of the world following 9/11 FOR NO DAMN GOOD REASON.

I am a loyal, patriotic American. I love my country. And that's why I speak out against Bush and the damage he has done to my homeland since January 2001.

The only reason I have been against impeachment of Bush is because Cheney as president would be worse. Impeach both Bush and Cheney, however, and maybe -- just maybe -- we can start to clean up the mess they have made.

I know that war is sometimes inevitable. We don't live in a perfect world. But:

Peace Is Patriotic

[coyotedude]

I have not mentioned this before, because I do not believe in waving it around at the drop of a hat....

And I want to offer my condolences, hudson. Even after 6 years, I can't imagine how painful your losses must be.

Not that there's a lot that I can say, in truth.... but I'm so sorry.....

coyote

[MarieDelta]

And I want to offer my condolences, hudson. Even after 6 years, I can't imagine how painful your losses must be.

Not that there's a lot that I can say, in truth.... but I'm so sorry.....

coyote

I also would like to offer my condolences.

Marie

[blew bi me]

Cindy Sheehan is an idiot and a dishonor to her fallen son.

[12voltman59]

I also have another reason that I would support the impeachment of both George Bush and Dick Cheney---they have been incompetent in terms of so much--like the response to Katrina and the way the war in Iraq has been run---if Clinton had conducted a war and had mismanaged it as badly as this one was--he would have been rightly impeached--any other president would have been---their incompetence comes from their decisions and the people they put into power positions like "Brownie" who ran FEMA at the time of Katrina striking the Gulf Coast---people who were incompetent--and as they say--the president "steers the ship of state" and like in the Navy--if the ship runs aground and even if the captain is on vacation when it happens---the captain still gets canned for having run a poorly run ship---

As Give 'Em Hell Harry Truman said in his time as president---"the Buck stops here"--this war and all of the negative consequences it has wrought and will continue to do so for decades and generations to come--have the fingerprints of George W. Bush all over it--and he can never--try as he may with his great and effective spin machine--he cannot escape that fact---

He may escape the judgement of his peers of this time---but I dare say--history will judge Bush harshly and all of us as well for having allowed he and his minions to get away with the fiascos of Iraq, Katrina and the scuttling of many aspects of our Constituional and Civil rights---

It may be impractical--but yes--Bush and Cheney should be impeached--realistically that will probably not happen-but maybe they might go on some sort of trial once they are gone from office---they also need to include Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz in there too in any future legal actions that may take place-for that trio had much to do with the formulation of the policies regarding Iraq.

[Doggie_Wood]

Cindy Sheehan is an idiot and a dishonor to her fallen son.

I totally agree 100% blew

:doggie:

[jamiehue]

So typical.

[scubaman]

[QUOTE=hudson9]I have not mentioned this before, because I do not believe in waving it around at the drop of a hat. But I think it is relevant here. I lost 2 family members on 9-11, an adult child, and a cousin. On 9-12 I began consuming every piece of information I could find related to 9-11, from US news media (major and minor), the BBC, blogs, think-tanks... everywhere.

My condolences to you and your family. Although not family, but I lost a couple of good friends in the bombing of the Murrah building in OKC. I is a sudden and tragic loss

I am going to bow out of his thread. I appreciate those comments made for and against my point of view. That is what make this such a great country. To me the flag is a symbol of what this country stands for, and yes the Constitution is a very important of our history, and something I to hold near and dear to my heart. Wolfcamp, I am very glad to know you fly your flag on the 4th of July.

Each person has opinions and sometimes in politics and religion we agree to disagree!

[wolfcamp]

I am going to bow out of his thread.

Scubaman,
If you are still reading this thread, I apologize for coming across so strongly. Sometimes we get caught up in the moment and our emotions start to run unchecked. This was one of those times. That goes out to everyone else, too, who may have been reading this thread. I think we all want the same things, and those are basically family, friends and happiness.

Everyone in this little community seems really nice. I'm going to fall back to my basic premise that no one should be judged too harshly because everyone has their own history and set of circumstances that has brought them to the place where they are right now.

I hope everyone here finds happiness.

Regards,
Wolfcamp

[TheThreeOfUs]

They're all the same. Every single one of them. Impeach Bush and we'll just get the next lying, power hungry schmuck in line.

Shoot em all and start from scratch.


Youre right. It doesnt matter what election who it is or anything. One is replaced with another. All have their little fake promises of what they will do for us and no one follows through with it. If a republican gets in everyone will still be bashing and whining, if a democrat gets in, everyone will be bashing and whining. It makes no difference. You can try to blame all of lifes problems on one single person, but remember that theres a huge show behind the stage.

[TheThreeOfUs]

I have to wonder if the bamamalamalalambama dude will have a mirror in the whitehouse, or who would be giving hilary the blowjob in the oval office lol