Ratio men seeking men v. women seeking women

[Tx46M]

Have you noticed while society seems to embrace female bi-gay relationships (me included), as a culture we are not so accommodating regarding same sex male relationships.

The ratio here seems male slanted but lately I have been looking at Craigslist.com (for research purposes only) and on any given day the men seeking men out number the women seeking women by 100+ to 1! Last Saturday at 7:00 AM there were 357 in the mm category, 3 (three) women in the ff category.

Personally I am not romantically attracted to men however I see nothing wrong with same gender fun with consenting adults.

I am a long time member here and made many friends, some I chat with daily, 2 I have actually met in person (most recent about 3 weeks ago and yes it was fun!!) and one (Belle) who is my dearest friend in the world.

Interested in your thoughts and comments.

[someotherguy]

Men have more testosterone. This makes them more interested in sex. They have like 100 times more, and so they are that much more interested than are women. Women like sex, too, of course, they just don't have the biological make-up to crave it the way men do. Testosterone sets up the supply and demand situation and then behaviors follow. Count the ratio of sperm to egg sometime.

[anne27]

Men have more testosterone. This makes them more interested in sex. They have like 100 times more, and so they are that much more interested than are women. Women like sex, too, of course, they just don't have the biological make-up to crave it the way men do. Testosterone sets up the supply and demand situation and then behaviors follow. Count the ratio of sperm to egg sometime.


That is an outdated sterotype. :2cents:

[dafydd]

Have you noticed while society seems to embrace female bi-gay relationships (me included), as a culture we are not so accommodating regarding same sex male relationships.


For some straight men, male homophobia is rooted in misogyny. The average Joe when thinking of gay sex, thinks of two men in bed doing anal sex- top/bottom. In a straight universe where man is active and woman is passive, the idea that a man can be penetrated is deeply unsettling and for some men emasculating. Anal sex between two men suggests that a man can also be 'passive/receptive/inactive' and therefore 'like a woman'. The thought of men being like women scares a lot of people. Homophobic cultures are as such generally less tolerant to same sex male relationships as these same cultures are also less tolerant towards women, or inherently misogynistic.

d

[Huey_durden]

.

The ratio here seems male slanted but lately I have been looking at Craigslist.com (for research purposes only) and on any given day the men seeking men out number the women seeking women by 100+ to 1! Last Saturday at 7:00 AM there were 357 in the mm category, 3 (three) women in the ff category.

.

Well when it comes to craigslist.org I always see it as a virtual glory hole more than a dating page as far as male fo rmale. once in a blue moon will u see a guy looking for an actual date or companion. Mostly it's just sex. I think it's because alot of men are either not comfortable with coming out in the dating world or even themsleves.

It could be just that "main stream" society sees two men as a sin and two women as a blessing, especially when it's two dvds for the price for one via girls gone wild.
I hear women on the train all the time saying they can see a two women but not two men becasue of the penetration and they don't want to picture their men being penetrated.

Just saying is all...

[MaybeSayMaybe]

I was just poking around here and saw the quote about jealousy. It's quite true. You'd be surprised what goes through the mind of your average straight person. If only they could admit it to themselves.

[spartca]

I think the question itself is framed in a way that reveals an odd set of assumptions: that any "bi" space is mainly for folks who have had mainly heterosexual relationships in the past, and who are now dabbling in same-sex ones. Most commonly, as the author points out, "discreet" non-romantic sexual relationships with the same sex. Kind of a limiting question, eh?

I've known quite a few bi folks who had previously had mostly or even exclusively same-sex relationships, and so they are gay/lesbian identified but "bi-curious." While I'm sure the other way round is more of the majority, I'm wondering how we might effectively be excluding gay/lesbian folks who are bi-curious from the conversation here?

Also, there are a goodly number of confirmed bi folks, such as myself, on here who are open to any and all possibilities, including full-blown long-term primary big-R Relationships with either a man or a woman. The question really excludes this part of the equation too.

I just don't want "bisexual space" to only mean a place where low-Kinsey number bisexuals cruise for same-gender "discreet" sex on the down low. We can be more inclusive than that people! :)

[dafydd]

I've known quite a few bi folks who had previously had mostly or even exclusively same-sex relationships, and so they are gay/lesbian identified but "bi-curious." While I'm sure the other way round is more of the majority, I'm wondering how we might effectively be excluding gay/lesbian folks who are bi-curious from the conversation here?


No I didn't feel excluded by this thread. I'm a Kinsey 5 or whatever that nonsense scale means.
I guess I'm not bicurious. I'm straight curious.

d

[onewhocares]

This is a rather interesting thread. About a year ago, when hubby and I had been on this site for about six months we had a dinner party. During the night a general comment was made about a man having two women for a night. I, being ever the antagonist, said that was sexist. I noted that it was utterly accepted by society that a man could have two women, but, oh my what would happen if a man had another man ( as my hubby does) or a woman have two men ( as I have been known to have)? Well dinner conversation was heated to say the least. Now I suppose it would have been kosher of me to state that I was speaking from a slanted viewpoint, but then as I later, much later, found out, most of the guests present each had an agenda also. Two of the men had female lovers, one is gay and another, my brother, has a male lover also.

The evening showed that there is such a sterotype of acceptence in a man having two women it is not considered out of the ordinary. Yet when I said that what if I wanted a woman...the men in the group did not bat an eyelash. Been there done that and it was not for me. When I stated, that in reality I would love to have the affection and attention of two men for an evening things were moderatly accepted. Shit hit the fan when I said that not only did I want the two men, but I also wanted them to enjoy each other. I am not sure whose reaction was most startling...the women who thought that the image of their spouse with another man was revolting ( oh those foolish women) or the men who I swear crossed their legs and tightened their ass muscles ( oh those dim whitted men). For me, the night was an eye opener to be sure. That was my experiance.

Now, for the comments here. I must be some really odd kind of a woman, because I must be overloaded with sexual desire and energy cause I can keep up with ANY man. (References given upon request) I do not consider myself some sort of floozy nor promiscious, but rather enjoy the developement of a friendship with a man which is based on common values, goals, interests and mutual respect. For me a man is SO much more than the physical.

For the comment about women who feel somewhat threated or uneasy about their man being penetrated. Why? Do they feel that it will be reflective upon them as women? That they are less of a woman, that their man wants a man either in place of or in addition to them. Do they feel less womanly? Well, for a while I did think that. That my husband was not getting what he wanted from me. But in reality, THAT was so wrong. No matter how hard I tried I would never physically and emotionally give my husband what a man could. When I finally came to that acceptance, that his wanting a man had NOTHING to do with me as a woman, it was peace.

Funny, in the begining we came to this site to find a lover for my husband. And yes, we found that and SO SO much more. Most importantly, through all the many kind and caring people on this site, I found something more. I found ME. We have been so lucky to have come upon this sight, quite by accident. The friends that I have met have become an important and sustaining part of my life. The man who started this thread is a prime example. We share a bond, far more important than intimacy. True friendship, the kind that if you need the other in the middle of the night, we are but a phone call away. A simple plane ride to be at the side of a friend no matter what the need. Or the JOY. My love for him is unmeasurable. Being there for another person in your life is a gift that many people can not share. Guess that is what seperates the men from the boys....no pun intended. Guess that is me...the woman who never gives up.

I guess if I could ask one thing of the people, be they woman, pehaps who have just found out that their man has desires to be with another man...is to let them fly..fly and find another part of their lives which they need. For if they fly and you give them flight..believe me...they will return to YOU. Just LOVE them.

Belle

[eyewarepanties]

This is a rather interesting thread. About a year ago, when hubby and I had been on this site for about six months we had a dinner party. During the night a general comment was made about a man having two women for a night. I, being ever the antagonist, said that was sexist. I noted that it was utterly accepted by society that a man could have two women, but, oh my what would happen if a man had another man ( as my hubby does) or a woman have two men ( as I have been known to have)? Well dinner conversation was heated to say the least. Now I suppose it would have been kosher of me to state that I was speaking from a slanted viewpoint, but then as I later, much later, found out, most of the guests present each had an agenda also. Two of the men had female lovers, one is gay and another, my brother, has a male lover also.

The evening showed that there is such a sterotype of acceptence in a man having two women it is not considered out of the ordinary. Yet when I said that what if I wanted a woman...the men in the group did not bat an eyelash. Been there done that and it was not for me. When I stated, that in reality I would love to have the affection and attention of two men for an evening things were moderatly accepted. Shit hit the fan when I said that not only did I want the two men, but I also wanted them to enjoy each other. I am not sure whose reaction was most startling...the women who thought that the image of their spouse with another man was revolting ( oh those foolish women) or the men who I swear crossed their legs and tightened their ass muscles ( oh those dim whitted men). For me, the night was an eye opener to be sure. That was my experiance.

Now, for the comments here. I must be some really odd kind of a woman, because I must be overloaded with sexual desire and energy cause I can keep up with ANY man. (References given upon request) I do not consider myself some sort of floozy nor promiscious, but rather enjoy the developement of a friendship with a man which is based on common values, goals, interests and mutual respect. For me a man is SO much more than the physical.

For the comment about women who feel somewhat threated or uneasy about their man being penetrated. Why? Do they feel that it will be reflective upon them as women? That they are less of a woman, that their man wants a man either in place of or in addition to them. Do they feel less womanly? Well, for a while I did think that. That my husband was not getting what he wanted from me. But in reality, THAT was so wrong. No matter how hard I tried I would never physically and emotionally give my husband what a man could. When I finally came to that acceptance, that his wanting a man had NOTHING to do with me as a woman, it was peace.

Funny, in the begining we came to this site to find a lover for my husband. And yes, we found that and SO SO much more. Most importantly, through all the many kind and caring people on this site, I found something more. I found ME. We have been so lucky to have come upon this sight, quite by accident. The friends that I have met have become an important and sustaining part of my life. The man who started this thread is a prime example. We share a bond, far more important than intimacy. True friendship, the kind that if you need the other in the middle of the night, we are but a phone call away. A simple plane ride to be at the side of a friend no matter what the need. Or the JOY. My love for him is unmeasurable. Being there for another person in your life is a gift that many people can not share. Guess that is what seperates the men from the boys....no pun intended. Guess that is me...the woman who never gives up.

I guess if I could ask one thing of the people, be they woman, pehaps who have just found out that their man has desires to be with another man...is to let them fly..fly and find another part of their lives which they need. For if they fly and you give them flight..believe me...they will return to YOU. Just LOVE them.

Belle

Wow I just loved your message here. You are a very special person. I have just come to find out I am one of those men who has found out that having sex (all be it oral for now) with another man is a beautiful thing. I would be your friend any day.

[Irongiant34]

And here I thought I had cornered the market on loving logical women when I married my beautiful wife last November. I told her about my bi side very early on in our relationship. I was tired of lying, tired of not being able to be myself. This was very hard to do as I had already fallen hard for her. I was very worried of what she would think, but I knew it was better to come out with it now rather then when things got more serious. And guess what? She took it in stride and accepted it. It was so hard to believe that I was still not sure until we invited another guy into our bedroom. I will never forget the look in her eyes when he penetrated me (safely of course) while she had my face in her hands. I'd never seen her that turned on before. I love seeing that. I let go and just enjoyed myself, as did she :) and that acceptance has made me more sure of my love for her that I am completely in love and devoted her and us. It may be a hard thing to do, but stepping up and being completely honest with the one your intimate with is the best thing you can do for both.

[onewhocares]

Gentlemen,

I thank you most humbly for your comments. I guess I do not view myself as anything special, just a woman who wants only the best for the ones that she loves. This site has taught me to appreciate all that I have around me. It is really nice to hear that there are other woman who love to see their man enjoy the pleasures of another man. As Tx said, concenting adults who have given of themselves to another is a fine thing. But I do think that you must take things at your own pace. What may be right for me, may not work for another woman. Gentlemen be patient with you woman, and women, if seeing your man with another man is a turn on to you, tell him. Talking...it is the best road to great sex.

Belle

[moonlitwish]

No I didn't feel excluded by this thread. I'm a Kinsey 5 or whatever that nonsense scale means.
I guess I'm not bicurious. I'm straight curious.

d
Hehe I've said this on more than one account myself ;)

[jamiehue]

I think the question itself is framed in a way that reveals an odd set of assumptions: that any "bi" space is mainly for folks who have had mainly heterosexual relationships in the past, and who are now dabbling in same-sex ones. Most commonly, as the author points out, "discreet" non-romantic sexual relationships with the same sex. Kind of a limiting question, eh?

I've known quite a few bi folks who had previously had mostly or even exclusively same-sex relationships, and so they are gay/lesbian identified but "bi-curious." While I'm sure the other way round is more of the majority, I'm wondering how we might effectively be excluding gay/lesbian folks who are bi-curious from the conversation here?

Also, there are a goodly number of confirmed bi folks, such as myself, on here who are open to any and all possibilities, including full-blown long-term primary big-R Relationships with either a man or a woman. The question really excludes this part of the equation too.

I just don't want "bisexual space" to only mean a place where low-Kinsey number bisexuals cruise for same-gender "discreet" sex on the down low. We can be more inclusive than that people! :)
ah yes!(Ive known quite a few bi folks who.......) that would be a thread to start.

[DiamondDog]

I think the question itself is framed in a way that reveals an odd set of assumptions: that any "bi" space is mainly for folks who have had mainly heterosexual relationships in the past, and who are now dabbling in same-sex ones. Most commonly, as the author points out, "discreet" non-romantic sexual relationships with the same sex. Kind of a limiting question, eh?

I've known quite a few bi folks who had previously had mostly or even exclusively same-sex relationships, and so they are gay/lesbian identified but "bi-curious." While I'm sure the other way round is more of the majority, I'm wondering how we might effectively be excluding gay/lesbian folks who are bi-curious from the conversation here?

Also, there are a goodly number of confirmed bi folks, such as myself, on here who are open to any and all possibilities, including full-blown long-term primary big-R Relationships with either a man or a woman. The question really excludes this part of the equation too.

I just don't want "bisexual space" to only mean a place where low-Kinsey number bisexuals cruise for same-gender "discreet" sex on the down low. We can be more inclusive than that people! :)

yeah that's why I avoid bisexual discussion groups since they're full of low and high number kinsey scale people who are just into hooking up and cruising.

I once went to a bi discussion group just to meet new people and I didn't like it.

It was very small, very cliquey, very cruisy, and WAY too political for my tastes. I thought some of the other members there were a bit rude talking openly about who they'd slept with in the group.

I wanted to tell them "so what? Who cares who you've slept with? Why are you telling me, a random stranger? I don't want to have sex with you or your wife if that's what you're hinting at or asking about. Gay men have been having open relationships for decades and it's not a big deal and they don't talk about it like this, so why feel the need to talk openly about it to someone who you've never met before?"

Anyway if these people claim that their open relationships with others are all about the "love" with multiple people, why is it just a bunch of slutting around with random strangers, casual acquaitances, and nobody takes these sort of relationships that serious at all?

A friend of mine also went to the group (at a separate time from when I did) and he also talked about how he thought it was rather cruisy too.

We think that if people go to the group just to hook up or only talk about who they've had sex with in the group, or openly gloat/boast about their open relationship, that they should go online to tons of sites devoted to finding people to have sex with (such as this site), or go to a bar.

I was talking to one guy in the group and asked him a question about himself, it wasn't anything personal or rude, and he didn't answer it and then just walked away in mid conversation/mid sentence to talk to some other guy about digital cameras.

I also got bored with the discussion since there's only so much I feel like talking about bisexuality without beating a dead horse.

Also about the politics of the group I thought it was weird how a lot of people wore jewelry with the ick, tacky bisexual flag on it or how some people had tattoos relating to their sexuality or the fact that they're in an open relationship which I thought was rather self defeating and silly.

How do you even determine your Kinsey scale number?

I don't really go by the scale at all and I change a lot on the Klein grid to where I'm perfectly equal and I want male/male/female 3 ways to where I'm mostly "gay" and I don't want anything to do with women at all sometimes for long periods of time such as half a year.


I was just poking around here and saw the quote about jealousy. It's quite true. You'd be surprised what goes through the mind of your average straight person. If only they could admit it to themselves.

What's that supposed to mean?

Heterosexuals are in the majority and believe it or not they don't want sex with the same gender at all.

I don't see why bisexual and homosexual people (especially gay/bi men) seem to covet, fetishize, and worship heterosexual men, or why lots of gay/bi men think that ALL men want sex with other men.

Those porn sites with "straight" guys having sex with each other are fake.

[DiamondDog]

For some straight men, male homophobia is rooted in misogyny. The average Joe when thinking of gay sex, thinks of two men in bed doing anal sex- top/bottom. In a straight universe where man is active and woman is passive, the idea that a man can be penetrated is deeply unsettling and for some men emasculating. Anal sex between two men suggests that a man can also be 'passive/receptive/inactive' and therefore 'like a woman'. The thought of men being like women scares a lot of people. Homophobic cultures are as such generally less tolerant to same sex male relationships as these same cultures are also less tolerant towards women, or inherently misogynistic.

d

Lots of homosexual and bisexual men even see the idea of anal and oral penetration as being emasculating.

But again lots of homosexual men can be homophobic and full of self loathing about being gay.

I know that there are men who are 100% tops for anal and even oral sex but I don't think that they have to have the outdated viewpoint that just because they don't get fucked or suck cock at all that it makes them "the man" or more "Masculine" than men who do get fucked or suck cock or who are total bottoms for each of these sex acts.

Also lots of homosexual men are complete misogynists and treat bisexuals and women like shit.

[dafydd]

Lots of homosexual and bisexual men even see the idea of anal and oral penetration as being emasculating.

But again lots of homosexual men can be homophobic and full of self loathing about being gay.

I know that there are men who are 100% tops for anal and even oral sex but I don't think that they have to have the outdated viewpoint that just because they don't get fucked or suck cock at all that it makes them "the man" or more "Masculine" than men who do get fucked or suck cock or who are total bottoms for each of these sex acts.

Also lots of homosexual men are complete misogynists and treat bisexuals and women like shit.

DiamondDog, I am not talking about gay guys here with outdated viewpoints. I am trying to explain one of the roots of homophobia amongst straight men.

However your reply about this "outdated viewpoint" got me thinking and, I *do* know for some of the couples I have met, especially mixed race same sex couples, specifically Asian (Pacific Islands)/White couples there is a role play of masculinity e.g. emasculated white men act out their role of dominance on asian guys who are more feminine and like to bottom. Don't want to generalise, and this happens across the race barrier, and in many different situations but in *my* experience I have witnessed this around some couples in San Francisco circa 2004. Not everyone is so modern in the way they use the sexual act to define their masculinity/femininity. There are gay couples out there, where the top "man" simply fucks and the bottom "wife" recieves.
This happens. But maybe it's different in Frisco.

I too know some misogynistic gay guys. These are men who have gone the other way, and think they can live without women, "what are women for? I don't need them etc." It's all pretty lame whichever way you look at it.


D
:flag3:

[CountryLover]

I too am blessed to be married to my bisexual man. I went looking for him, knowing exactly what I wanted - and ohhhhhboy it's been *wonderful*.

His willingness to be completely open to me allows me that same joyous freedom. It's the most incredibly intimate experience and relationship I've ever known.

We're coming up on our first anniversary on July 26, and we're more in love than ever.

[spartca]

Congratulations CountryLover!!! :)

[onewhocares]

Yes County Lover....I agree. Having only been in relationships with Bi Men, I can honestly say with out hesitation that it would be rather difficult for me to become involed with a straight guy. I adore sharing my thought and feelings for men with my hubby.

Happy Anniversary.


Belle

[fuckare]

i am a very hetro man

where do i fit in

i like cock in my mouth and in my ass

paul

[fuckare]

my lady loves many partners male and female

I am a one man woman

where do i fit in

I feel excluded

[fuckare]

i am a straight guy

i only fuck my lady


she fucks many men and some women

explain

[Realist]

Belle and Country Lover, I feel the same way about bi ladies. The only time I've ever truly been happy was when I was in a f/m relationship with a bi lady. Like Belle, I met the most fantastic gal right here and my whole life has been so much better for it. I will always be grateful for this site, because of that.