Brokeback Mountain

[Michael623]

I saw the previews of this movie this past Monday. Should be an interesting movie and I would enjoy very much seeing the reactions of the heterosexual community. Has anyone else seen the previews or know anything about it.

The tragic lovers in "Brokeback Mountain" are a couple of barely educated, itinerant ranch hands named Jack Twist and Ennis Del Mar (played in the movie by Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger, respectively). They meet in the summer of 1963, when they're hired to split the job of keeping a large herd of sheep safe from predators on an isolated Wyoming mountainside. Nineteen and virtually friendless, they find unexpected pleasure in each other's company. Then one night, overwhelmed by hormones, whiskey and each other, they're surprised into a passion so powerful and fulfilling it feels like the best thing that ever happened to them and ever will. Increasingly dangerous but irresistible, their secret romance continues to claim them long after each has married and made a family.

[Damon]

Sounds like it's worth a watch michael..

On the same topic, can someone name a few internationally known Bi/gay themed movies.. Ireland has a poor selection but I'm hoping to aquire a few online, though I only know about 1 or 2..

Thanks..

Damon

[m.in.heels&hose]

i have seen this advertised just once, and then that was it, i dont know if it ever made it to the theaters or not or what ever became of this movie
it was on my "to see" list which is rare concidering i am not a movie person at all

:cool: m.in.heels&hose

[arana]

If anyone wants to see the trailer go to:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/trailers

It looks like a great movie yet very emotional. Can't seem to find a release date for it though.

Brokeback Mountain (2005)
A raw, powerful story of two young men, a Wyoming ranch hand and a rodeo cowboy, who meet in the summer of 1963 sheepherding in the harsh, high grasslands of contemporary Wyoming and form an unorthodox yet life-long bond--by turns ecstatic, bitter and conflicted.

Summary written by Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana

The new film from Academy Award-winning director Ang Lee. An epic love story set against the sweeping vistas of Wyoming and Texas, Brokeback Mountain tells the story of two young men - a ranch-hand and a rodeo cowboy - who meet in the summer of 1963, and unexpectedly forge a lifelong connection, one whose complications, joys and tragedies provide a testament to the endurance and power of love.

[codybear3]

Sounds like it's worth a watch michael..

On the same topic, can someone name a few internationally known Bi/gay themed movies.. Ireland has a poor selection but I'm hoping to aquire a few online, though I only know about 1 or 2..

Thanks..

Damon

Look for a movie called "Prissilla:Queen of the desert" Its entertaining and has some good looking guys in it. :bigrin:

[wellred]

Wow! What a powerful trailer! If this is a proper representation of the movie, audiences will have strong reactions (on many sides of this issue) to this story and the portral of its characters. It will likely have difficulty getting mainstream review. Fortunately, there are avant-garde theatres that will relish showing this film.

Thank you very much, Mike, for making this known and, Arana, thanks for posting the trailer.

Hugs,
Red

[Damon]

Look for a movie called "Prissilla:Queen of the desert" Its entertaining and has some good looking guys in it. :bigrin:


I have the movie :) even b4 I knew I was Bi I loved this movie.. I think Guy Pearce was really fine in it.. :)

The only other one I have is Boat Trip but after that I dont know about many others..

Any one else any suggestions: Mainstream Bi/Gay themed movies..

Thanks

Damon

[arana]

Sounds like it's worth a watch michael..

On the same topic, can someone name a few internationally known Bi/gay themed movies.. Ireland has a poor selection but I'm hoping to aquire a few online, though I only know about 1 or 2..

Thanks..

Damon

Damon have you seen My Own Private Idaho? I haven't seen it all the way through and it's been a long time since that was but it's suppose to be good.
Here's info on it.

My Own Private Idaho (1991)
Surreal character study focusing on the friendship between two male hustlers, Mike and Scott, in Portland, Oregon. They live on the streets, do drugs, and sell themselves to men and women. Mike (River Phoenix) is quiet, gay and suffers from narcolepsy. Abandoned as a child, he is obsessed with finding his long-lost mother. Scott (Keanu Reeves) is the rebellious son of a high-ranking family, who lives this life mostly to embarrass his father. Mike is in love with Scott, who still maintains he is straight and insists that his wild lifestyle on the streets is only temporary. Together, they embark on a quest to find Mike's mother, traveling from Portland to Idaho to Italy, with Scott picking up a beautiful girl along the way.

[Damon]

Ty for the info arana..

Maybe I'll bump into that one some day..

Looks like amazon is my best choice for Bi/Gay themed movies, some happy user has posted 30 or 40 of his favourites in a list there :)

I've only heard of one of them but hopefully I'll make the right choices picking new ones..

I checked out the trailer for Brokeback mountain.. I love those 2 guys!!

Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger rock!! :)

Damon

[Dreamcouple2]

HELLO EVERYONE.... :tongue:

Well, I was just at the theater today and saw the trailer for this film and the release date is soon and will be nationwide, here in the U.S.....it will be interesting to see the reaction of the general public....

Here is a list of some Bi, gay, and Lesbian films.......

I have a membership at Netflix and all of their movies are great and listed as to points of interest....here is the link if anyone is interested.

http://www.netflix.com/


BETTER THAN CHOCOLATE


Scant hours before her uptight mother (Wendy Crewson) and brother move in with her, Maggie (Karyn Dwyer) meets the woman of her dreams (Christina Cox). Though Mom is oblivious to her daughter's sexual orientation, it's a tough thing to hide in close quarters. Meanwhile, Maggie's transgender friend (Peter Outerbridge) falls in love with the owner of the lesbian bookstore where Maggie works. Anne Wheeler directed this sexy romp about love and lust.

GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN

Drew (Aaron Orr) is a forest ranger who meets yuppie Mark (Matthew Montgomery) after he falls while rock climbing. Mark wakes up in the hospital with amnesia and sees that Drew has remained by his side since the accident. Drew offers to move in with Mark to help him out until he regains his memory, which propels the two men into a passionate affair. But things start to change as Mark's memory slowly returns. …

TWO GIRLS AND A GUY

Writer and director James Toback (Black and White) explores a contemporary love triangle in this comedy-drama. When two girls (Heather Graham and Natasha Gregson Wagner) find themselves waiting outside an apartment building, they come to realize they're there to meet the same guy (Robert Downey Jr.) -- who's been sleeping with them both! Armed with this knowledge, the girls break into the guy's apartment and prepare for the ambush.

THREE
Tatlo ... Magkasalo


Talk about romantic entanglements! In this movie from the Philippines, Tito (TonTon Gutierrez) and Elsie (Rita Avila) are a couple, but they both have lovers on the side. Susan, Elsie's mistress, has cancer. And although Elsie is pregnant, she leaves Tito to care for Susan, but now Tito wants her back. Can she make a decision and stick to her choice for good?

LOST IN THE PERSHING POINT HOTEL (2000)


In Atlanta in the mid-1970s, a diminutive drag queen tries to find succor from the small-town religion that filled him with self-loathing. He meets Miss Make-Do, who teaches him the fun of reckless behavior and emotional management via getting higher than a kite. Stars Leslie Jordan (who also wrote the screenplay) and features a host of cameos from John Ritter, Marilu Henner, Kathy Kinney and others. Julia Jay Pierrepont III directs.

STRAIGHT MEN AND THE MEN WHO LOVE THEM (2004)


Jorge Ameer is just one of the directors who lends his singular talent to this collection of provocative international short films that explore the dizzyingly complex and often intimate relationships between gay and supposedly heterosexual men. Films from the United Kingdom, Brazil and Spain include "In the Name of the Father," "Space Two" ("Espacio Dos") and "Popcorn and Coke," which stars Matthew Leich.

This movie is one of my favorites....

HIS SECRET LIFE (2001)
Le Fate Ignoranti


While recovering from the shock of her husband's death, an Italian woman (Margherita Buy) discovers that her husband had had a secret lover for the last 7 years. But she's even more surprised to discover that he and his lover (Stefano Accorsi) were part of an extended "family" of gays, transgenders and other social outcasts … a family she finds herself drifting toward as she overcomes the emotions of her husband's passing.

:bibounce:

:2cents:

[arana]

HELLO EVERYONE.... :tongue:

Well, I was just at the theater today and saw the trailer for this film and the release date is soon and will be nationwide, here in the U.S.....it will be interesting to see the reaction of the general public....
:2cents:

That's very cool and thanks for letting everyone know about the other movies. Did you see it after A History of Violence also? What did you think of it?

Thanks!

[Damon]

Thanks ever so much for the movie info Dreamcouple2..

Really appreciate it.. :)

Damon

[Michael623]

Thank you all. I want to see some of these movies to get a better view, albeit fictional, of how the bi sexual world is. Like a lot of us mine is hidden except to my wife and all of you here.

Thanks,
Michael

[Brian]

I saw another trailer for Brokeback Mountain on the weekend and I am starting to see reviews of it on the net too. It opens on Dec 9 I think (in North America at least). It looks like a very powerful movie.

It was shot (at least partially) here in Alberta, Canada - I remember reading in the local paper that Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger were in town for filming about a year ago. It looks like a beautiful movie too - it re-affirms for me why I moved here several years ago; for the clean air and the great outdoors. (oh, and hot cowboys too!)

The trailer I saw seems to suggest a strong bi theme with one or both of the characters having relationships with women in addition to the principle male-male relationship, so it will be very interesting to see how it plays out and how it is perceived by those who are gay, those who are straight and those who are bi.

I can't wait to see it.

:cowboy::cowboy:

- Drew :paw:

[kimba_n_hotrod]

Before I watch the movie, I made sure I read the book. If you're tender hearted...be sure to take tissue. I highly advise that anyone interested in viewing the movie, read the book first. It is short, only 55 pages in length..and very moving. :bibounce:

[Brian]

Before I watch the movie, I made sure I read the book. If you're tender hearted...be sure to take tissue. I highly advise that anyone interested in viewing the movie, read the book first. It is short, only 55 pages in length..and very moving. :bibounce: I'm going to follow your suggestion Kimba and get the book. I better get some kleenex too I guess, since even though I have hair on my chest and broad shoulders, I cry like a baby at Disney movies even. :shades: Sigh.

- Drew :paw:

[RebekaLee]

i saw the preview for brokeback mountain when i went to see rent. i can not wait to see this movie...it looks awesome...but will probably bring some tears

[Michael623]

Thanks Drew for the update. I am hoping they show it in Montana.

[deSade]

Greetings all!

Hey, another thread that I feel comfortable I can talk confidantly about! Wow! Being a film buff myself, I like international movies and found a few international bi/gay films that I think you would find interesting:

1.) Before Night Falls - Javier Bardem plays a Cuban poet who is coping with his homosexuality during a time when gays were being persecuted by the government. Quite heart wrenching (from what I know of the film) and Johnny Depp has a hot scene in it (according to my girlfriend, a Depp fanatic).

2.) Gods and Monsters - Ian McKellen plays James Whale, the director of Frankenstein. It shows his last days (and his slipping sanity) while he tries to woo a younger man (played by Brendan Fraiser). It is a great movie and shows a very close relationship between two men.

3.) My Own Private Idaho - It isn't a "foreign" film but it is supposedly a legendary film (River Phoenix's best role) in the gay genre. He and Keanu Reeves play two male hustlers who slowly drift apart. It is an update of Henry IV.

4.) Bent - Gay Ian McKellen is at it again. This time, the story is set in WWII and how the Germans punished gay lovers. It is a celebration of love and identity during a terrible time in history.

I think these are some of the more celebrated, interesting, and emotionally deep films. Let me know if it's helped you at all.

Happy viewing!

DeSade

[nerdslut]

This is the movie I've been looking forward to most recently. It looks so understated and sincere.

[arana]

FYI : This weeks Entertainment Weekly has Heath and Jake on the cover and an article about the movie. They are pushing this as a GAY movie even though the guys were married. There is also a review on it as well as some other bits on other movies of this nature.

[Michael623]

I had 3 gay guys tell me on Thanksgiving all about us bisexuals. They didn't know I am bi. So I can understand why this is being pushed as a gay movie. Like the guys told me, us bisexual men are really gay hiding behind a woman.

[sailorashore]

It make me nuts that so many gay men are just as prejudiced against bisexual folks as most heteros seem to be. Anyone who has spent anytime here in our chatroom knows better, but still so many gays want to insist that "you're one of us, you just won't accept it." Horseshit!
I can't wait to see this movie, and how the reviewers deal with it. In cowboy country, this film is going to make many men squirm uncomfortably. The most virulent homophobes are often those least comfortable with their own sexual ambivalence, which they would never admit. They will probably wait for the video, rather than sit through it in a public place like a theatre, even in the dark, where their reactions might be observed by their neighbors.
When are we going to learn not to let our conduct be determined by the (pre)judgements of others?
For you film buffs who would like to see a vivid depiction of the destructiveness of such attitudes, and an actors' tour de force, see Audrey Hepburn and Shirley Maclaine in "The Children's Hour"

sailorashore

[Michael623]

ROFL sailorashore, I am smack dab in the middle of "cowboy country." Hey give me a pinch of copenhagen before I suck you dick, lol.

Michael

[Ooohiknow]

It definitely looks like its going to be a powerful film. I'd definitely go to see it, not sure who I could get to come along with me.
Ive seen the trailers a few times whilst at the cinema the reaction seems to be mixed so it will be interesting to see how popular it is.

[arana]

For anyone that gets the LOGO channel they are running a 30 minute documentary on the making of the movie with interviews of the cast and crew. They even talked about how the media is over simplifying this movie by calling it "The Gay Cowboy" movie. It's won awards and praise in both Caan and Toronto film festivals. If you don't have the channel you can also look it up on the web at www.logoonline.com

Cheers! :tong:

[arana]

LOS ANGELES (AP) - "Brokeback Mountain," a gay Western about two ranch hands who share a summer of love and then conceal their ongoing affair, was picked as 2005's best film by the Los Angeles Film Critics Association, the group announced Saturday.

The movie, which stars Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal, also earned director Ang Lee the critics' award for best director, and Ledger was the runner-up for the best actor's award.

"A History of Violence," a thriller starring Viggo Mortensen, was the runner up for best film, and its director, David Cronenberg, was runner up for the directing award.

The award for best actor went to Phillip Seymour Hoffman for his work in "Capote," which chronicled author Truman Capote as he pursued his true-crime book "In Cold Blood."


Vera Farmiga won the best actress award for portraying a wife and mother who falls deeper into drug addiction in "Down to the Bone." Judi Dench was the runner up for best actress for "Mrs. Henderson Presents."

In the best supporting actress category, Catherine Keener won the award for her work in "Capote,""Ballad of Jack and Rose, "The 40 Year old Virgin," and "The Interpreter." Amy Adams, who played a pregnant Southern waif captivated by her new sister-in-law from up north in "Junebug" was the runner up.

William Hurt won the best supporting actor award for "A History of Violence," while Frank Langella was runner up for his role in "Good Night, And Good Luck."

There was a tie for the best screenplay award between Dan Futterman for "Capote" and Noah Baumbach for the divorce tale "The Squid and the Whale."

The awards ceremony was scheduled for Jan. 17 in Los Angeles.

Other 2005 picks:

Foreign language film: "Cache."

Documentary/nonfiction film: "Grizzly Man."

Animation: "Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit."

Music/score: "Howl's Moving Castle."

Cinematography: "Good Night, And Good Luck."

New generation: Terrence Howard, actor in "Hustle & Flow."

Career Achievement: actor Richard Widmark.

Independent/experimental: "La Commune (Paris, 1871)."

Special citations: Film critic Kevin Thomas for his contributions to film culture in Los Angeles; and David Shepard, Bruce Posner and the Anthology Film Archive to honor "Unseen Cinema", a DVD collection of avant-garde films from 1894-1941.

[kimba_n_hotrod]

Has anyone heard when this movie is opening nationwide..not just on the East and West coasts?

[arana]

According to the website http://www.brokebackmountain.com/home.html it's open now. I have yet to see it playing anywhere near me though. Has anyone seen it near them???

[arana]

A few places I've found it playing at:

Carmike 7
406-652-5211
2255 Overland Ave., Billings, MT 59102 406-652-5211

Carmike Cine 7
406-259-9783
925 Broadwater Ave., Billings, MT 59101 406-259-9783

Carmike Wynnsong 10
406-656-2041
2456 Central Ave, Billings, MT 59102

Avalon Theatre
503-238-1617
3451 S.E. Belmont Street, Portland, OR 97214 503-238-1617

Bagdad Theatre
3702 S.E. Hawthorne Blvd., Portland, OR 97214

Century Eastport 16
503-775-0000
4040 SE 82nd Ave, Portland, OR 97266 503-775-0000

Cine Magic Theatre
503-231-7919
2021 S.E. Hawthorne Blvd., Portland, OR 97214 503-231-7919

Cinema 21
503-223-4515
616 NW 21st Ave, Portland, OR 97209 503-223-451

Clinton Street Theater
503-238-8899
2522 SE Clinton Street, Portland, OR 97202 503-238-8899

Hollywood Theatre
503-281-4215
4122 NE Sandy Blvd., Portland, OR 97212 503-281-4215

Laurelhurst Theatre
503-232-5511
2735 E Burnside, Portland, OR 97714 503-232-5511

McMenamins Kennedy School Theatre
503-225-5555
5736 N.E. 33rd, Portland, OR 97211 503-225-5555

Mission Theatre
1624 NW Glisan, Portland, OR 97209

Four Seasons Cinema
716-297-1951
2429 Military Road, Niagara Falls, NY 14304 716-297-1951

Regal Hollywood Stadium 12
716-236-0077
720 Builders Way, Niagara Falls, NY 14304

Ioka Theatre
603-772-2222
55 Water St., Exeter, NH 03833

AMC Mesa Grand 24
602-956-4262
1645 S. Stapley, Mesa, AZ 85204 602-956-4262

Closed-Harkins Poca Fiesta 4
480-222-4275
1020 W. Southern Avenue, Mesa, AZ 85210 480-222-4275

Harkins Fiesta 5
602-222-4275
1520 S. Longmore, Mesa, AZ 85202 602-222-4275

Harkins Superstition Springs 25
480-641-4603
6950 East Superstition Springs Boulevard, Mesa, AZ 85207 480-641-4603

Superstition Mall
480-981-7272
6555-1002 E. Southern Ave., Mesa, AZ 85206

Closed-Winfield Cinema
316-221-4300
1007 Main Street, Winfield, KS 67156

Regal Medina Stadium 16 @ Huntington Street
330-723-4416
200 West Reagan Pkwy, Medina, OH 44256

Carmike Cole Square 3
307-778-4197
517 Cole Shopping Ctr, Cheyenne, WY 82009 307-778-4197

Carmike Frontier 9
307-634-9499
1400 Del Range Blvd, Cheyenne, WY 82009

[biscuits]

Hi Ya'll.
According to what I heard yesterday the movie is not due to open nation-wide until early January.
It opened in 5 cities las weekend and is set to open in 5-10 more this weekend.
The plan is to keep building it up until right before the Golden Globes which will pretty much ensure that HL will win several of the 7 nomminations he has so far.
So hang in there...it'll be worth the wait.

[Brian]

Yeah, I heard something similar to Biscuit, but different. I heard (or thought I did) that it opened in just 3 cities (New York, L.A. and San Fran) on Dec 9, but will open nationwide, and here in Canada too, two weeks later, on Dec 23. But I admit to not being sure that I heard that correctly.

That list is great Arana. Thank you!! I hope many of you find it helpful.

Our editor-in-chief, Jon, will be reviewing the movie for us as soon as it opens in Toronto.

I really hope this movie goes a long way to getting folks talking in the mainstream media about bisexuality and the challenges faced by gay/bi people in rural North America who choose to marry in spite of their feelings for people of the same sex.

[texasman6172003]

Hi yall, The one thing thats really pissing me off about this movie is that they are saying its a gay movie.. While clearly the two cowboys are bisexual. They git married later,love women the whole shmere. Its just so clear that everyone does not want this to be defined as a bisexually themed presentation. I just dont like the fact that they cant accept bisexualtiy as a way of life. Just wanted to put my :2cents: in . Thanks yall . :) Tex.

[JustADuck]

You're 100% right. The men are sexually and emotionally attracted to women. It's just that their love for each other was stronger so they cheated. Gay my ASS! It just makes me so mad. Maybe I'll write something for my school paper. You know what, I think I will.

Gay cowboy movie. Bull. Shit.

AHEM. As for my favourite gay/bi themed film, I recently saw D.E.B.S. on TMN (it's on there now) and I loved it. It's four sexy, gorgeous young women (including Meagan (http://www.askmen.com/women/actress_300/312_meagan_good.html) Good (http://groups.msn.com/AtDaCrib/meagangoodgallery.msnw) and Devon (http://celebz.h1.ru/names/a/aoki_d/index_eng.shtml) Aoki (http://www.famousbabes.com/devonA/dapics1.htm)!!) who attend a spy training university. One character develops a lesbian (actually now that I think about it, she seems bi?) relationship with a rather unorthodox woman. (Not spoiling the movie.) It's worth it for the eye candy alone, but it's also funny and very entertaining. The funny part is that nobody in the film exhibits any homophobia whatsoever. Kind of a vision of how the world could be. :bibounce:

[Manical]

I live in L.A. and I saw the movie about 2 weeks ago. First I want to say that I loved the movie, and thought is was really emotionally stirring. The characters were all completely believable, and I thought it was generally a great movie.

That being said, let me weigh in on the gay versus bi thing. Now I am the first one to advocate bisexuality and recognizing the nuances of it. But in the case of this specific film, I really don't feel like the 2 cowboys are bisexual. I think they are men who later on in life discovered that they are gay, and have to continue to have sex with women because of the social factors that they find themselves surrounded in. I think that if they were left completely to it, they would have made the decision to be "completely" gay... if such a thing even exist.

Jackadust... Have you seen the movie? Nothing about these 2 cowboys is emotionally or sexually attached to women. The only thing they are attached to is each other. That's kinda the whole premise of the movie.

[12voltman59]

Brokeback Mountain is getting spun as a "gay movie."

The other day-there was a feature piece on the movie that aired on a National Public Radio program. The film was reviewed favorably, but in both the review and a subsequent news story that followed the review-- in both pieces, "Brokeback" was referred to as a "gay" film.

It has been the same when the film has been mentioned on those daily entertainment shows like "Entertainment Tonight."

It makes me want to scream at my TV or radio when I hear the movie called a "gay" film. :soapbox: :banghead:

[JustADuck]

Jackadust... Have you seen the movie? Nothing about these 2 cowboys is emotionally or sexually attached to women. The only thing they are attached to is each other. That's kinda the whole premise of the movie.

I think you mean me. Yes, I have seen the movie and that is what convinced me that Jack and Ennis are bisexual. The previews make it seem that they are not attracted to women but the movie seems to make it pretty clear that they are. Why would a gay man be so thrilled to have sex with a woman, or to see boobs? What about the way Jack looked at Lureen in the scene where they first meet? He sees something special in her, and he wants her. There is immediate chemistry there. The premise of the movie is that Jack and Ennis love each other more than their wives and can't express that in a homophobic society, but I certainly do not think they are mono.

[Brian]

Personally I am not too concerned with labelling the characters as either "gay" or "bi".

In one of his books ("The Bisexual Option", I think) Doctor Fritz Klein defines a term he calls "situational bisexuality". This is where a person who is basically either completely gay or completely straight has a sexual relationship beyond the person's "normal" experience because of the situation the person finds himself in. So for example two straight women trapped on a desert island might have sex, making them bi for the time, but after they get off the island they might never have sex with a woman again. Or, a man who is basically gay might have a sexual relationship with a woman (even a very long one resulting in children) because he feels incredible pressure to live the "straight life". Both situations are what can be called "situational bisexuality".

I think the latter example is similar to the situation the two characters in the movie find themselves in. There is no doubt that there are many many men and women around the world who are in a similar circumstances - in a different world they MIGHT be completely gay, but they end up being bi as a way to cope in a homophobic world. This is a form of bisexuality AND homosexuality in my opinion - it is "situational bisexuality". I think you could debate endlessly whether people in that situation are "really gay" or "really bi".

The one thing I strongly disagree with though is folks who label the MOVIE as "Gay, not bi" (as at least one reviewer for a gay publication did). That's just not accurate - it is clearly a bisexual MOVIE - as a matter of fact it could be THE bisexual movie, as I don't think any other movie has explored in such a big way, the concept of situational bisexuality, or bisexuality as a way of coping with one's own homosexuality in a society that doesn't yet accept it.

That my 2 cents. :2cents:

- Drew :paw:

[Michael623]

Excellent comments Drew. My sister is visiting until Jan. 5th so I have to wait until she leaves to see it, can't wait!

[JustADuck]

I think that's akin to saying that in a world free of homophobia, I would be a lesbian, and I am surrending to patriarchy by sucking dick. I just don't agree. It's that type of logic that people are using here. They say Jack and Ennis are in "sham" marriages - with women they enjoy spending time with, get along with and are sexually attracted to. I just do not think that is true.

I am sorry, I just have heard my sexual orientation explained away too much. No, I do not fuck men because there aren't any nice girls in my city. I fuck men because I like to. And I fuck women because I like to.

Jack and Ennis love each other deeply. But don't explain away their relationships with women by saying they don't exist. We pink, purple and blue unicorns do indeed exist. You just can't see us.

[usedbear1950]

Quoted from JustaDuck,
"I fuck men because I like to. And I fuck women because I like to."

You hit the nail on the head for me. :2cents:
So who wants to see the movie with me?
:bibounce: :cowboy: :bibounce:

[Bi-ten]

Gay, Bi? Whatever.

I can't wait to see this movie, these guys look hot! Drew I have been to Calgary and know what you mean about the cowboys lol:) Makes me want to rope me a steer!

Cheers all.

[arana]

This is a little off track but I saw something on Logo channel and wondered what the difference is between GAY Rodeo and REGULAR Rodeo??? Sorry for being so dense but I'm curious.

[Brian]

I think that's akin to saying that in a world free of homophobia, I would be a lesbian, and I am surrending to patriarchy by sucking dick. I just don't agree. It's that type of logic that people are using here. They say Jack and Ennis are in "sham" marriages - with women they enjoy spending time with, get along with and are sexually attracted to. I just do not think that is true.

I am sorry, I just have heard my sexual orientation explained away too much. No, I do not fuck men because there aren't any nice girls in my city. I fuck men because I like to. And I fuck women because I like to.

Jack and Ennis love each other deeply. But don't explain away their relationships with women by saying they don't exist. We pink, purple and blue unicorns do indeed exist. You just can't see us. I didn't say everyone who is bisexual is "situational bisexual". And I didn't even mean to imply that the characters in the movie are - I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know, and how could one tell anyway? Although I was perhaps jumping to conclusions and I implied that perhaps at least one of the characters may be a "mostly gay man, who is situational bisexual". But really I have no idea; trying to picture either of the characters in a non-homophobic world would really be just pure speculation I guess. The point I was trying to make (with only moderate skill) was what does it matter? If you are bi as a means of coping with being gay in a strongly homophobe world, or if you are bi just because you are and would be no matter what, it doesn't really matter, in my opinion. That's why I think the debate over labelling the characters as gay versus bi is a hopeless one. I hope that helps clarify my thoughts.

- Drew :paw:

[Brian]

This is a little off track but I saw something on Logo channel and wondered what the difference is between GAY Rodeo and REGULAR Rodeo??? Sorry for being so dense but I'm curious. I'm not sure but I think you have to be gay to be a contestant in a gay rodeo. And I assume they don't even ask at a regular rodeo, but perhaps the religious conservatives are working to change that. :rolleyes:

- Drew :paw:

[JustADuck]

My point was, what does it matter? If you are bi as a means of coping with being gay in a strongly homophobe world, or if you are bi just because you are and would be no matter what, it doesn't really matter, in my opinion.

Your point was well made. I'm just saying that, it matters because biphobia and monosexism run so horribly rampant in our world. I disagree that anybody could be bi as a means of coping with being gay in a homophobic world. How is that person bisexual? If the individual is sleeping with women because it is expected of him, and he is not attracted to them, then he is a homosexual. Period. That is the definition of what a homosexual person is. Attracted to one sex. The same one that they are. I know I am really neurotic about this but I suppose I like my mental lines very very clean. Call it OCD of the intellect. :tongue:

Why would a homosexual, as defined, look at Lureen the way that Jack did? Why would a homosexual be so sweet and gentle with Alma (at first) the way Ennis was? He might be nice to them, but not romantically.

In the context of the trememdous ignorance and vitriol directed at bisexual and pansexual people, I think it certainly does matter that the concept of "bi" doesn't even reach people's heads when they consider this story. The immediate reaction is "Bi??? Why, that's impossible!" Why is that?

But, I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me. We're mostly bi here and we're all on the same side (or non-side, as the case may be). I'm just saying, please consider my argument.

[Brian]

Your point was well made. I'm just saying that, it matters because biphobia and monosexism run so horribly rampant in our world. I disagree that anybody could be bi as a means of coping with being gay in a homophobic world. How is that person bisexual? If the individual is sleeping with women because it is expected of him, and he is not attracted to them, then he is a homosexual. Period. That is the definition of what a homosexual person is. Attracted to one sex. The same one that they are. I know I am really neurotic about this but I suppose I like my mental lines very very clean. Call it OCD of the intellect.

Why would a homosexual, as defined, look at Lureen the way that Jack did? Why would a homosexual be so sweet and gentle with Alma (at first) the way Ennis was? He might be nice to them, but not romantically.

In the context of the trememdous ignorance and vitriol directed at bisexual and pansexual people, I think it certainly does matter that the concept of "bi" doesn't even reach people's heads when they consider this story. The immediate reaction is "[i]Bi???[]/i] Why, that's impossible!" Why is that?

But, I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me. We're mostly bi here and we're all on the same side (or non-side, as the case may be). I'm just saying, please consider my argument. And a very good argument it is. You raise some valid points.

I just feel that there are many people who are strongly influenced by their culture/situation and I think it can affect their deepest desires. So lets say, as an example, there is a man who is bisexual, and say he is married, but also sleeps with men. And this man might, if pushed to quantify his sexual desires, describe himself as 85% gay and 15% straight. Now maybe in a different world, say in the year 2100, he might for all practical purposes be completely gay. But in this world he isn't. Maybe because he has been influenced by his situation; perhaps he lives in a rural area and wants to stay there, or maybe because he has always wanted to have kids, or maybe because his extended family would never in a million years accept him as being gay. So maybe this situation has influenced him, and is largely responsible for the "15% straight" side of him. I think he is still a bisexual man, he meets the definition afterall - he is attracted to both sexes.

This is just a hypothetical example but I think in our world there are many men who are similar to this hypothical example.

So I think situational bisexuality does exist and is common, or perhaps more accurately I should say: I think our situations/culture undoubtedly affect our desires for the same sex and opposite sex one way or the other depending on our situation. And I think this is still bisexuality - just a little different than the "bi to the bone" feelings that some feel.

- Drew :paw:

[JustADuck]

So I think situational bisexuality does exist and is common, or perhaps more accurately I should say: I think our situations/culture undoubtedly affect our desires for the same sex and opposite sex one way or the other depending on our situation. And I think this is still bisexuality - just a little different than the "bi to the bone" feelings that some feel.

Hmm. I think that is right on. I was misunderstanding your point before. You're saying that bi = desires both/all, but those desires themselves are a part of sexuality that is molded by the culture. Like how they like huge asses in Mozambique (I think it's in mozambique), and emaciation/starvation imagery here. I totally think that's true.

I'm not saying that sexual orientation is completely determined by DNA. I know that maybe in a parallel universe, I may be mono, and not attracted, ever, to someone outside my mononess. But I don't think the opposite could happen here in this universe.

But I still have to disagree about the situational bisexuality thing. I think two straight women having sex on a deserted island would make them two straight women having sex. If a gay guy gets or drunk or high and sleeps with me because of that, I would still say he's homosexual. If he does feel that way about women, then he was bi in the first place.

[Bi-ten]

Just a quick note,

I just saw the movie and I will not spoil it for anyone. It is a powerful story about two beautiful men who fall in love in spite of their social situations.

It is sad and joyous on many levels, especially to anyone who has lived through a love that cannot be completely acknowledged (for whatever reason). There are also many beautiful lessons that we can take from it.

Highly recommended...and pass the kleenex.

[sailorashore]

Just saw it myself~~finally made it out to the multiplex in the burbs on, of all days, Friday the 13th. It is a powerful film, indeed, and I predict at least two Oscar nominations. Heath Ledger, for his portrayal of Ennis, and the cinematographer for his/her stunning panoramas of the Canadian Rockies (supposedly the Grand Tetons in Wyoming.) I won't attempt to analyze their sexuality, others here have done that already, but the characters remind us only too vivdly how reckless it was to be messin with another man in sixties Wyoming (or Texas, or Montana, or...) Has it really changed that much?
I think there are still many places in this country where deviating from the perceived sexual norm can get you killed. I have heard that this film is only being distributed in urban markets. I don't know if that's true, but, if so, why do you think that is? Homophobia, and the violence it spawns, is alive and kicking in 21st century America, folks, and we'd best not forget that.
Peace and love, sailorashore

[Michael623]

Brokeback Mountain opened in Billings Friday. One lady interviewed best summed up the attitude about the movie here. "This isn't what cowboys are all about". Even my wife has the opinion that cowboys can't be bi or gay. I thought that the same percentage of cowboys would be bi or gay as say bankers. Man, am I ever getting an education.

[APMountianMan]

In the '60's, and even in our time, gay men shielded themselves from society and themselves by maintaining relationships with members of the opposite sex. This is the context of Brokeback Mountain. To imagine this film as a bi-sexual film in disguise is to take away from the genuine intent of the story.

From the moment we meet Jack Twist we notice him giving Ennis Del Mar (in the words of Jerry Falwell) a homosexual look. The film makes it clear that of the two men Jack is most comfortable with his sexuality and is willing to break with social conventions to be with the man he falls in love with. Jack knows what he wants and goes out and gets it, whether with Ennis or traveling to Mexico or with other men he meets along the way who are inclined as he is. But he always returns to Ennis. Indeed, with Ennis' brooding and torn nature one does ask why. What is certain is that for Jack the encounter with Ennis on Brokeback Mountain was far more than simple "situational homosexuality."

Ennis is a far more troubled and tragic character than Jack. His sad mix of "fear of success" and "martyr" syndromes lead him to live a life that is empty and meaningless. After the first encounter with Jack, Ennis starts the denial game by stating, "I ain't queer." Of course Jack agrees, but also counters that it's nobody's business what they do while alone on the Mountain. This moment was so lacking of power that it made one long to insert the scene from "My Own Private Idaho" when the River Phoenix character confesses his feelings for the Keanu Reeves character. Sadly this wouldn't be the only "what could have been a powerful moment of truth" missed by Brokeback Mountain.

We learn that Ennis as a young boy knew of two older men that lived on a ranch together. One of the men is brutally murdered. In Ennis' retelling of the story, he states his father made sure that his two young sons viewed the body, and that it may have been his father that killed the man. Hold on a minute. Is this why Ennis is in such denial about his feelings toward other males? Did Ennis, even as a child, have feelings towards members of his own sex? Did his father recognize that Ennis might be gay, and use the murder as a potent warning? Like a stone that has skipped too many times over the surface of a pond, this topic sinks below the waves of more predictable storytelling.

Of course, Ennis marries his hometown girlfriend even after his affair with Jack. Of course, in their lovemaking Ennis flips his wife on her belly and enters her in reminisce of his lovemaking on Brokeback Mountain. All this is predictable gay male trapped by societal norms storytelling, and it's where Brokeback Mountain falls short.

Ennis' reaction to Jack's return is disturbingly reckless for the denial we are asked to believe Ennis is in. The revelation that Ennis’ wife tied a note to his fishing line that Ennis never found lacks any significance, since we know she witnessed Jack and Ennis kissing the day of their reunion. The fact that Ennis never found the note only confirmed what she and the audience already knew -- Ennis was having an affair with Jack.

The sadness of this film is that it could have been so much better. The exploration of the barrenness of Jack's childhood bed room, the bitterness of Jack's father, and the revelation that both Jack's mother and father knew of Jack's desire to bring a man home to live with on the family ranch would have made this a much richer movie. Instead the movie focuses on Ennis' denial and emptiness.

Despite all of this, the film begs you to like it. The best scene in this movie is the "I wish I knew how to quit you” scene – it should be a song. There is breath-taking scenery, and the performances of Heath Ledger (A Knight’s Tale) and Jacob Gyllenhaal (Donnie Darko, The Day After Tomorrow) certainly deserve recognition. Brokeback Mountain shows glimpses of what could have been a great movie. Instead, it turns out to be a simply OK film, which I wish I knew how to quit.


:cool:

[arana]

Yay for Brokeback Mountain at winning both best director and best drama for the Golden Globes. Also for Felicity Huffman for winning for her part in Transgender. Has anyone seen this yet? I've seen snips but it hasn't come to my area yet.

[Michael623]

I saw Brokeback Mountain this afternoon. I grew up in Casper Wyoming so it was cool to hear all the places I knew and had been so many times. I have been in every "cow" town in Wyoming and understand how someone would have problems dealing with being gay even in this day and age let alone 30 or 40 years ago. Yes, not that it matters, my opinion is that they were gay. Wyoming is VERY red neck. LOL, no shit. Great movie, sad but sure touched your emotions.

P.S. Not everyone in Wyoming lives in poverty in some run down old ranch house.

[Fresia]

I love this movie!!