What is cheating?

[kcunderwhere]

OK - I'm brand new here, and have been reading (with much interest) many posts regarding cheating, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc. (see links below).

I am a bi married guy with wife and child. I have not been with anyone else since I have been married, but have thought about it. My wife does not know about my bisexuality. Here are my options:

1. Tell her, and lose the family. How do I know? Well, I am also a transvestite, and I told my wife about that when we first started going out (coming to a date with shaved legs might have been difficult to hide...). It disturbs her, but the unofficial policy is as long as I don't do it, she will try to forget it is there. However, she let it be known that she would not accept me if I had any interest in men.

2. Explore without her knowledge...and be cheating, which will probably make me feel just as bad.

This leaves me in the trap of many married bi and trans men with families they dearly love and care about...hide it, don't do it, and be unhappy and let all the feelings build up inside until you want to explode, or cheat.

Who is to blame for this dilemma - the wife for not understanding (how could she without being in the same situation?), or the husband for being the way he is (unable to control his very natural and powerful feelings)?

Now, here is a question - how do you perceive sex, intimacy and love?

For me, enjoying intimacy with a guy is no different than playing tennis together - it is enjoying company, companionship and maybe some fun. This may seem like a convenient way to look at it, but it is natural and very true in many other cultures - just not in our heavily christian-influenced society. Here, intimacy (sex) is hard wired into marriage - there can be only one...

As for love - everyone has a very deep relationship with someone other than a spouse or partner (like a "best friend")...it is also called love (I love you, man!), but it is not the same love as with a spouse or partner.

So, if there can be different forms of love (outside of marriage) that are OK, then why not different forms of intimacy that are OK? :confused:

I've got much more...but this is enough for one day!
:bigrin:

Links to other related threads:
Crossing the line (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366 )
Comming out the hard way (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214)
New to site - recently learned husband was bi (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311)
Harold and Maude (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228)

[mike9753]

Interesting thoughts. I have another question for you.

Who should define what is or is not cheating?

1. Is it the person who is contemplating the activity (the cheater)? OR
2. Is it the one who will be "cheated" on (the cheatee)?

Mike

[kcunderwhere]

It would be nice to be able to come to a mutual agreement on the definition of cheating, but...in the real world, as the "cheater" you need to go by the definition used by the "cheatee" - since if you didn't care about what the "cheatee" thought, you wouldn't be worried about "cheating" in the first place.

Like I said before - I don't think having intimate relations with a guy is "cheating" in itself, but doing it without her knowledge or consent is cheating by both our definitions.

Maybe the title of this thread is misleading...I guess I am asking if people agree that if there can be acceptible "love" outside of marriage, why not acceptible intimacy?

Also, I could add this: Is "cheating" (by anyones definition) OK as long as it makes you feel better, therefore improving the your life and everyone around you...as long as the "cheatee" never finds out? Kind of like the "white lie" thing...you are not doing it to be malicious, but do the benefits outweigh the consequenses?

[bim4mmf]

OK - I'm brand new here, and have been reading (with much interest) many posts regarding cheating, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc. (see links below).

I am a bi married guy with wife and child. I have not been with anyone else since I have been married, but have thought about it. My wife does not know about my bisexuality. Here are my options:

1. Tell her, and lose the family. How do I know? Well, I am also a transvestite, and I told my wife about that when we first started going out (coming to a date with shaved legs might have been difficult to hide...). It disturbs her, but the unofficial policy is as long as I don't do it, she will try to forget it is there. However, she let it be known that she would not accept me if I had any interest in men.

2. Explore without her knowledge...and be cheating, which will probably make me feel just as bad.

This leaves me in the trap of many married bi and trans men with families they dearly love and care about...hide it, don't do it, and be unhappy and let all the feelings build up inside until you want to explode, or cheat.

Who is to blame for this dilemma - the wife for not understanding (how could she without being in the same situation?), or the husband for being the way he is (unable to control his very natural and powerful feelings)?

Now, here is a question - how do you perceive sex, intimacy and love?

For me, enjoying intimacy with a guy is no different than playing tennis together - it is enjoying company, companionship and maybe some fun. This may seem like a convenient way to look at it, but it is natural and very true in many other cultures - just not in our heavily christian-influenced society. Here, intimacy (sex) is hard wired into marriage - there can be only one...

As for love - everyone has a very deep relationship with someone other than a spouse or partner (like a "best friend")...it is also called love (I love you, man!), but it is not the same love as with a spouse or partner.

So, if there can be different forms of love (outside of marriage) that are OK, then why not different forms of intimacy that are OK? :confused:

I've got much more...but this is enough for one day!
:bigrin:

Links to other related threads:
Crossing the line (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366 )
Comming out the hard way (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214)
New to site - recently learned husband was bi (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311)
Harold and Maude (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228)

Hello, well coming from someone in the same situation it is neither persons fault. Its not the wifes fault because if she doesnt wish to accept she cannot force herself to. 2> its not the bi males fault because he is the way that he is and cannot control it. I have heard some peole claim that male male sex is not considered cheating but i dont know how this is true. There are some married men who are bi and their wife accepts and even joins in. They are lucky. However not being one of those i sit and suffer and try to quell my desires. Any advice would also be appreciated. :)

[Bi-ten]

Hello,

In some of the links mentioned you will notice that disclosure of sexuality to a spouse can be rewarding (if accepted) or devastating.

As a person who has revealed the truth to his wife, I can tell you that in my case has components of both. Yes, now I am undergoing a painful separation with my wife of many years, and it really is not easy...spiritually or financially.

On the other hand I have the reward of knowing who I am, and being able to share it with whomever I choose. I have the joy of living a full and complete life for the first time...with honesty, compassion and love.

Your choice is a hard one, for me I quickly learned that cheating without her knowledge would eat away at me...its just not in my makeup. I also knew that not sharing this precious part of my life would mean that I would never have a completely honest relationship with her or anyone else. The thought of that was also too much for me to bear.

So thats my 2 cents, you need to listen to the small voice that always tells you the right thing to do. Sometimes the instructions are so painful you don't want to hear...but sometimes the alternative is worse.

All the best, if you want to talk about it you can message me anytime.

[bigregory]

If she dont know then 1 day you will be caught.
they just find out
be open hell or high water....
well it worked for me..
kisses and best of luck
bigregory

[Mistya]

Being dishonest is still being dishonest, no matter how many shades of grey you want to sugar coat your infidelity with you still have cheated your loved one out of something. That little white lie you told might help you look in the mirror the next morning, but ask yourself is it worth it?

Quote kcunderwhere: "Enjoying intimacy with a guy is no different than playing tennis together"

This sounds like you are speaking of meaningless sex. Meaningless sexual liaisons are an easy way to fill a gap in a day but can be counterproductive...usually breaking down the very fiber of your primary relationship...you know the one...the relationship that you made a commitment to. When any of us agrees to be in a full-time relationship, we take on the responsibility of another's love, trust and respect.

Granted I am speaking from my own experiences here...I do believe in being honest about who I am, what I do and my preferences.

I totally agree about different degrees, types or levels of love. Then again, I can love my friends without being sexually involved with my friends.

[rupertbare]

I've been giving some heard thought to this thread.

If you are "married" then, unless you have discussed otherwise, it is usually viewed by both the couple concerned and society as a whole to be a mutually "exclusive" relationship. Any sexual relationship outside of it is therefore "cheating".

If, on the other hand, the couple have discussed either allowing other outside liaisons or involving one or more people "into" the relationship, then by definition it would NOT be an act of betrayal or unfaithfulness.

"Going behind some-one's back" IS an act of betrayal - for those of us who are bi and married and either cheating or thinking about it - this is an unpalatable truth. It is hard to swallow and accept - but that IS the fact.

What I would suggest, however, is find some-one on this site that you like and trust and discuss it with them. I'm sure most will be honest - even if you don't get the answer you're hoping for.

Remember: marriage is for life, not just for Christmas.

And I really do understand the pressure that staying faithful can put on the individual - but I also know that for many people a "cyber" outlet can relieve much of it.

With Love and Peace

Rupe :)

[Mrs.F]

Hello,
I am a wife who just recently found out her husband is bi. I found out by accident, not by him telling me. Be careful in what your doing....my husband accidently left this sight up overnight when he came to bed really late. I got up and found it. Read everything he had written about himself, his experiences and so on. Needless to say...I have never been so hurt, so disgusted and so betrayed in all my life. He lied to me and I felt like I didn't know him at all. It has been a long trying month now or so since I found out. We did alot of crying. Please don't do things behind her back. You owe it to her to tell her. She is the love of your life and you have a child. We have a 2 yr. old. I can't say that I am ready to just let him go out and be with guys. Right now that is not going happen. I can't say if it will ever. But it takes alot of time. Alot of healing and alot of being close together and asking questions. You say she's already mentioned to you that if you were interested in men she could not accept that.....well, you are though! When the time is right (if that ever comes) and you are ready to tell her, you need too. My heart is with you and hopefully she will be willing to try and understand. I'm still trying. There are days I wish I could just forget I ever saw this and I don't think he ever would have told me. He just would have kept going on this sight behind my back. His fear was the same as yours. I would leave him or kick him out! Only You know what you have to do and only you can do it. Good luck to you.
Mrs. F.

[kcunderwhere]

Wow...lots of great responses. I guess I really threw this whole thread off with the "cheating" title. Maybe I should start another thread...

I agree with everything said above, which is why I am not "cheating", although I have not told her about my bisexuality. I have also stated that just the act of doing anything without her knowledge or consent is cheating. I would like to set the cheating issue aside for the moment.

My question falls back to this:

If there can be different forms of love outside of marriage that are OK, then why not different forms of intimacy (sex)?

Mistya mentioned exactly what I am talking about:


This sounds like you are speaking of meaningless sex. Meaningless sexual liaisons are an easy way to fill a gap in a day but can be counterproductive...usually breaking down the very fiber of your primary relationship...you know the one...the relationship that you made a commitment to. When any of us agrees to be in a full-time relationship, we take on the responsibility of another's love, trust and respect.

This is the distinction I am trying to make...sex can only be "meaningless" if you attach a particular meaning to it...

You can have many different forms of love - "spousal" love, "best friend" love, "family" love, "love you like a brother/sister" love...they all are an expression of deep caring, they are all love, but just different expressions of love - and socially acceptable.

As for sex...mainstream society says there can be only one type, limited to monogomous couples "in love". Why can't there be different forms or expressions of sex as there are different expressions of love? Sex is a just a physical act. It can be used to express love, but is not love itself.

Sex without love is seen as "meaningless"...so, is playing tennis without competition also "meaningless"? It is the point of view.

Does anyone else share this view?

[Bi-ten]

I used to think that there could be such a thing as meaningless sex...I now really believe that there is no such thing. Each and every sexual encounter has some meaning...it cannot be compared to a tennis match.

In sex you are bonding with another human being, you are opening up your body and mind, and you are trusting them, if only for a brief moment. It is possible that this can be done with no emotional residue, but we all know that this is rarely the case.

Nomatter what, a seed is sown, you are both changed in some way from the experience. I is not love, but its not tennis etither lol.

Just another :2cents:

[mike9753]

It seems we are moving more into the meta-physical realm here.

However, that being said, I, as usual have an opinion.

I think that when we have sex with another person when make a connection with that person - whether we mean to or not. We touch physically, but we also touch each other in a deeper way. I firmly believe that when my wife and I make love we give each other a piece of ourselves. I am not diminished by what I give to her because I also receive somethin precious from her. And then when we are not making love, but just living our everyday lives, what we have shared (that I cannot define, but know it's there) grows and brings us closer. To me, that's a loving relationship.

Now in a non-lovong relationship - sex of the "meaningless" variety, I think we are diminished, because we cannot NOT give of ourselves. And since we may never see that individual again or our contact is awkward, then we cannot build upon that which we have shared. Building upon what Bi-Ten said, "Nomatter what, a seed is sown, you are both changed in some way from the experience. I is not love, but its not tennis etither lol."

I have great compassion for prostitutes. They don't get it. And as a result I think they become, after a time just emotional husks - drained and tired. They have given away so much of themselves, without even realizing it.

Mike