I'm goddamned livid, and here's why

[Azrael]

The President's son's (not MY president, I voted Green) nomination for the post of Surgeon General (i.e. America's Doctor) is nothing short of appalling.
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Holsinger_on_Homosexuality.pdf
Infuckingfuriating :mad:
Pseudoscientific hogwash.
This WILL NOT STAND.
"The logical complementarity of the human sexes has been so recognized in our culture that it has entered our vocabulary in the form of naming various pipe fittings either the male pipe fitting or the female pipe fitting depending upon which one interlocks within the other. When the complementarity of the sexes is breached, injuries and disease may occur as noted above. Therefore, based on the simplest known anatomy and physiology, when dealing with the complementarity of the human sexes, one can simply say, Res ipsa loquitur - the thing speaks for itself! [sic]"[26]
What is this guy, a fucking plumber?!?!?
ARRGH! Oh, and he supports what's known as Reparative therapy i.e. the so called "ex gay" movement :banghead:
Some Physician, eh?

[Herbwoman39]

Yeah, the guy is a total buffoon. Write your Congressman and Representatives and tell them you don't want this idiot to be the surgeon general.

[Azrael]

For those who would like to know more about this horrific conspiracy to make the Queer community not exist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy
Absolutely reprehensible
:(

[vittoria]

For those who would like to know more about this horrific conspiracy to make the Queer community not exist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy
Absolutely reprehensible \
:(

yeah babes, i SO know about that crap... found out about this maniacal bOOlsh*t early one morning around 4 am... so fkkn bogus...

what makes it wild is that the SOB says that homosexuality and bisexuality is a disease which can be cured...
makes me think of the movie V for Vendetta ( my mantra.. opened my eyes, and my heart) when they go rounding up all of the "undesireables" and start sending them to camps...

time to take out the trash!!! :banghead: :soapbox:

[Herbwoman39]

What's really sad is the people who go through these programs and come out claiming that they are "cured". In reality I feel that many of them just want to be "normal" (please excuse the choice of wording - I can't think of anything better) so badly that they'll shove down their desire for the same sex and deny it completely. Which is unhealthy, in my opinion.

[diamond_tether]

:soapbox:

For whatever reason, the conservatives are trying to 'return' the country to a time when there was only straight sex, there was no premarital sex, everyone believed in god, women 'knew their place', and minorities didn't cause a fuss over things like 'equal rights'.

Now, if only this time/place had *ever* actually existed, we could believe that by moving 'forward' we could some how 'get back' to this mythical time or place. There's always been gay sex, bi sex and premarital sex; women and minorities have been recognized as equals throughout history in various cultures. The zealots on the right seem to refuse to acknowledge these facts.

But, even amongst those who consider themselves to be progressive or liberal, the majority of the US is more than happy to keep themselves in the dark ages and to continue use this dark age-type mentality in regard to how they want the country to remain, choking progress with a mass amount of ignorance. Complacency and Ignorance will be the downfall of this country, in our opinion.

We've lost a lot of efficacy in regard to the US Government. We voted against Bush, we've voted against his type of behavior at every step of the way and it's become clear and obvious that despite half the country not wanting that type of conservativism to lead - they will continue to implant whatever obstacles they can to social progress.

[FerSureMaybe]

The President's son's (not MY president, I voted Green) nomination for the post of Surgeon General (i.e. America's Doctor) is nothing short of appalling.
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Holsinger_on_Homosexuality.pdf
Infuckingfuriating :mad:
Pseudoscientific hogwash.
This WILL NOT STAND.
"The logical complementarity of the human sexes has been so recognized in our culture that it has entered our vocabulary in the form of naming various pipe fittings either the male pipe fitting or the female pipe fitting depending upon which one interlocks within the other. When the complementarity of the sexes is breached, injuries and disease may occur as noted above. Therefore, based on the simplest known anatomy and physiology, when dealing with the complementarity of the human sexes, one can simply say, Res ipsa loquitur - the thing speaks for itself! [sic]"[26]
What is this guy, a fucking plumber?!?!?
ARRGH! Oh, and he supports what's known as Reparative therapy i.e. the so called "ex gay" movement :banghead:
Some Physician, eh?


Um, yea, injury can occur if you don't know what you're doing or take unneccessary risks. But answer me this: If homosex wasn't sposed to happen, then why are guys bodies wired so that it feels good still? Hm? Who knows? Maybe it's like, one of those sinks with two faucets?

Ha. I hope that made sense.

I'm just going to buy a private island when that money tree sprouts in the backyard :tong: , and you're all welcome if you respect each other and whatever pipes you choose to fit into is your business.


Oh and it is very much reminding me of V for Vendetta in a very scary way. That part of that movie made me cry. Even worse, is that V for Vendetta is very reminiscent of the holocaust, just a more modern version. *sigh* Well, if we're a disease, then I'm glad I'm sick.

[DiamondDog]

http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/campaign/stop_holsinger

[tinkslite]

http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/campaign/stop_holsinger
Az and all,

My husband and I have a background in mormondom (as many of you know). The church sent many of its flock to reparative therapy (read: electro shocks in sensitive areas) for many many moons.
It doesn't still, but still does not see homosexual/bisexual people as equal citizens.
One of the main reasons we left the church is the damage that was being done to our friends in the name of "normalcy".
I'm glad we're no longer a part of the church, but I fear that if this BOZO comes to hold such an office the mormon hierarchy will feel justified in returning to the RT referals.
Goddess Forbid!

[darkeyes]

Sounds like a luffly man...from the Mengele Charm School for the Sons of Lil Arseholes?

[NaughtyNorm]

The only Unnatural Sex Act is one that you can not perform.
NaughtyNorm

[the mage]

Dam, people your country is in peril........

The so obvious religious underpinnings in social policy will be the doom of the US.
You people need to squawk loud and long to everyone you can and get them to send e mails to your govt "leaders" to fight this type of action.

THe Chinese and European gov't's are not bogged down by this bullshit, the scientific advances made there alone are putting US industry at risk, never mind your gov't spending a billion dollars a day more that it brings in.

Do you know that sociologists have already, years ago, mapped out the direction your country is taking? It leads to inevitable break up of the US into 3 different countries in coming years. A hollowed out interior of the continent as the desert spreads, with shrunken coastlines, both assaulting a dead economy.

Not good. Seek change.

[Music Girl]

Reparative Therepay....what a crock of #@$*!!! I had a very good college friend whose parents sent him to reparative therapy. He lived in a small town, so he had to drive to a larger town for therapy. He told me he hated the therapy, but would keep going. When I asked him why he continued to go, he simply said "There's a great adult bookstore there with the best gay porn." LOL!!! I say "Good for him". I never have understood why people can't just accept others for who they are. :)

[hudson9]

I am no longer suprised by ANYTHING the neocon fascists in this administration say or do. This is who they are.

The people I am angry at are everyone else -- from the "Log Cabin Republicans" to the "soccer moms" to the "NASCAR dads" to the business community to the 60+% of the American public that doesn't bother to vote, who decided they could support or tolerate these neocon fascists because they had some narrow self-interest -- taxes, "morality", "security", de-regulation, or whatever -- that the neocons played to. The neocons are fascists in the truest sense of the word: they acquire and exercise power for the sake of power; exercise it according to their own agenda without regard to consensus or accomodation; and exercise it without regard to precident (or law!).

These people acquired power because they were allowed to by ill-informed, un-thinking, and apothetic Americans. The Nazis came to power by playing on peoples fear -- economic fear, ethnic fear, and "security" fear, and because too many people "of good will" were willing to compromise their principles, or did not actively oppose them ("all that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is for men of good will to do nothing...").

If this upsets you, then oppose them at every opportunity -- vote, write letters to your congresspersons, write letters to the editor, state you opposition around the water-cooler at work, at church, at the bowling alley, the country club -- wherever. But especially -- make sure you and everybody you know, VOTES -- and make sure the candidates know WHY you're voting the way you are.

OK, rant done.

[Vuarra]

The only Unnatural Sex Act is one that you can not perform.
NaughtyNorm

I think the only un-natural sex act is masturbation... I choose to perform some because they feel good to me, and choose not to do others because they do not interest me.

That reminds me... I feel like a sex act... perplexxed, where are you?

[Azrael]

Dam, people your country is in peril........

The so obvious religious underpinnings in social policy will be the doom of the US.
You people need to squawk loud and long to everyone you can and get them to send e mails to your govt "leaders" to fight this type of action.

Couldn't agree more, Mage.

[Remetan]

This is...appalling. Though written in 91, it isn't much different from how people feel today. Luckily, most of the scientific community doesn't pay a lot of attention to medical or scientific journals written specifically for religious organizations, especially not when the arguments are so incredibly unfounded.

What I always find intriguing is that people use the whole "biologically normal" or "biologically designed" arguments. Especially those who are in positions in which they have economic and political power. As far as nature goes, we haven't anything to compare ourselves to, because as far as we know, there aren't any other beings on this planet with a similar social structure or mental capacity. Using the "biologically designed" argument doesn't make sense.

Money and it's aquisition isn't biologically normal, cell phones and cars and designer clothes and the need for higher education degrees from better colleges aren't biologically normal. Hell, gourmet food, good wine, quality beer and excellent tobacco aren't biologically normal. How much you want to bet most of them partake of those on a regular basis.

The general hypocrisy of most of the religious right is terrifying. Hell, the general hypocrisy of most people is terrifying. Especially as we know that there are oft times things going on behind closed doors with the very same people who are spouting this bologne.

I agree with others who have spoken before. Take your stand and be vocal. Stop hiding, start speaking. The more of us that are loudly anti that sort of hatred and idiocy, the better chance we have of becoming a majority, rather than a minority. If all the closeted queers and all the secret queer supporters really spoke up? Honestly....We could rule the world! Mua ha ha ha ha.

But seriously. Speak and Vote.

[DuskTillDawn]

i really gotta learn to not get so wound up about this stuff but it really gets to me!!

[FalconAngel]

We should all get wound up and hostile about it. The whole issue was created by the Born-again Christians. The right wing lunatics who brought us the "Moral Majority" (Damn, if that isn't a self contradicting title) are the ones who are the real problem. If they would just stop shoving their beliefs and agenda down everyones throats, then there would be just a little more peace on Earth.

[Enoll]

Days like these mae me glad I'm not American.
No offence to you guys, but your government blows goats.

[FerSureMaybe]

Ha. I totally saw this this morning and had a wonderful laugh.

I also was a little bit encouraged by the audience's reaction to it. Although, I'm sure they may have been told to do it. But it's a little bit of reassurance that maybe the whole country doesn't have their heads up their asses.

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2865296

[Pensive]

Speaking as someone who comes from a religious, neocon background, I have lots of different feelings on this one. I've still got many friends who are of the opinion that gay sex is unnatural, an affront against God, etc. etc. While I obviously don't agree with them, I can see where they're coming from. They have been raised to believe in the Christian worldview, and it's so hardwired into many of their heads that it's difficult if not impossible for them to even conceive the idea that Christianity is false. I'm glad that never in my darkest, most conservative days was I ever like that. But I can see why many of them who have A) Been told all their lives that homosexuality is a sin, B) Never struggled with any sort of persistent homosexual urge, and C) Never actually met a gay person for any sustained period of time, could believe that it is a sin in the same way that they believe anything else, such as jealousy or stealing, is a sin.

As for eradicating homosexual behavior and feelings, that will never happen for many people. I think a lot of people who undergo "reparative therapy" are either bi and learn to live without same-sex activity and thoughts on a regular basis, or gay and learn to live without sex. As important as sexual activity and feelings are, I have known people who can live without them; I think a lot of so-called "ex-gays" are doing just that, if they are legitimately abstinent, or they secretly still indulge in gay sex. I used to try to change myself; I remember how I had a huge crush on a guy my first year of college and I avoided him like the plague because I didn't want to give in to what I thought was a sin. God, I remember how excited it used to make to talk to him. I'm even smiling right now just thinking about him. You never fully get over some people. Back to my point, though, I tried about as hard as you can try on your own to change (without the benefit of "reparative therapy," thank God - that stuff always sounded just a little bit creepy to me, even when I was a Christian), and it ended up getting me nothing but self-loathing and denial. I firmly believe that that's how it is for anyone else coming out of reparative therapy. They can be celibate if they want, but unless they were only marginally bi before, they can never obliterate what is a natural part of themselves.

I've noticed a lot of people freaking out about the Bush administration the wages of neoconservatism, but I really think these allusions to the holocaust and dystopian futures are a bit dramatic. Neocons are people too, just like anyone else; many of them are good, loving, moral people who just happen to have a difference of opinion. It bothers me as much as anyone that many religious conservatives might think anyone is going to hell based on who they have a sexual preference for, but this is America. There are always going to be differences of opinion, and if we can't agree to disagree here, we ought to reconsider our patriotic rhetoric. And besides my current distaste for religion, I still believe that the right way to respond to an enemy is with kindness rather than loathing.

The majority of the American public is ambivalent about homosexuality. They aren't gay and so they don't really think about homosexuality terribly much, but they also don't possess an irrational hatred of gays. True, there are homophobes and douchebags out there, but they are a clear minority. Also, the tide is turning. The older generation is gradually being replaced by a younger generation that is, among other things, much more gay-friendly. Even at my conservative Christian college, there are some signs of changes on the wind: during my last year there, they allowed a gay rights group to come speak on campus. Granted, they treated them like shit and inisisted on having a rebuttal to every speaker, but 10 or 20 years ago they would have been arrested for trespassing. The religious right is fighting a losing battle, and it's only a matter of time before gays are more of less fully accepted in this country. It doesn't matter who holds the office of president or surgeon general or whatever; I think if you take a look around at the hearts and minds of the people (especially today's teenagers and twentysomethings), they are largely pro-gay or at least gay-friendly.

Anyways, that's my :2cents:. Sorry about the obscenely long post.

[hudson9]

...I've noticed a lot of people freaking out about the Bush administration the wages of neoconservatism, but I really think these allusions to the holocaust and dystopian futures are a bit dramatic. Neocons are people too, just like anyone else; many of them are good, loving, moral people who just happen to have a difference of opinion. It bothers me as much as anyone that many religious conservatives might think anyone is going to hell based on who they have a sexual preference for, but this is America. There are always going to be differences of opinion, and if we can't agree to disagree here, we ought to reconsider our patriotic rhetoric. And besides my current distaste for religion, I still believe that the right way to respond to an enemy is with kindness rather than loathing.
My problem is not with conservatives -- there are plenty with whom I can disagree, but respect their integrity and character. Christopher Shay of CT, Ron Paul, or even John McCain for ex. may be "wrong," but I respect their integrity, charracter, and honesty, and I know I could have an honest debate wtih them.

The "NeoCons" are a sub-set of the conservative movement. Cheyney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Feith, et al. are the cohort I object to. Here is what I maintain they share with fascist movements of the past: They don't believe in free markets or "neutral" government -- they foster close, mutually beneficial ties between certain businesses and their government (no-bid contracts to Haliburton, etc.). They don't seek consensus, but exercise power as they alone see fit, simply because they can (Invade w/out UN support, despite the elections, they "surge" troops in Iraq; they ignore the will of congress; they politicize law enforcement, as with the unprecidented dismissals of Fed. prosecutors; they wiretap without even bothering with rubber stamp National Security Warrants; they dispense with habeus corpus, a right that has been recognized for hundreds of years...), and they knowingly and repeatedly lie (Iraq-Al Quaida connection, WMDs, global warming...). It was the Nazi's that maintained if you repeated the "big lie" long enough, people would begin to believe it (Cheyney STILL maintains that there was a connection between Iraq & Al Quaida!), and Goebels that said "Of course the people never want war... " I could go on and on.

No, I'm sure Cheyney et al. don't plan to murder 6 million Jews. The point of the comparison is that too many people in Germany said "Oh, they can't really be THAT bad..." But the Cheyney Neocon cabal HAS been bad enough to cost the lives of 3,000 + American soldiers, permanantly maim thousands more, and cost the lives of 100,000 Iraqi men, women and children (an no, not even Saddam killed that many).

...and now I think I've carried on at least as long as your post! (Sorry!!)

Peace,
Jack