How Big Is The Other Side?

[truelove201]

I'm a 35 year old male who has been married for 10 years (we've been together for almost 16 years total including dating). I've been attracted to guys my whole life, but lived the straight life and pushed it aside. Over the last several years, I've gotten older, matured and allowed myself admit this to myself. During this period I found it harder and harder to deny and finally about a month ago I came out to my wife admiting my sexuality, not that I fully understood it at that point and still don't. We are now stuggling to understand what this means to our marriage. She's frustrated by me not being able to give her clear answers and I can't becuause I don't fully understand it myself.

I'm having a very difficult time understanding how to fulfil the more gay side of my sexuality. I've read articles on here about guys being fulfiled by different things (i.e. just hangin with another guy, cuddling with a guy, having a deep conversation with another guy (like women do), being physical with another guy or an emotional connection with another guy). The eternal question that I'm struggling with is how do I get to the bottom of understanding what I need to be a full person? I can imagine getting to the bottom of this if I was a single 21 year old out there playing the field. I imagine that I would eventually figure out what works FOR ME, but that the "trying different items on the buffet" method does not work when you're already in a monogamous relationship and trying to preserve a family.


Confused in Canada!! :male:

[parkwings]

Well, that is a conundrum you are in. I can relate. I am with a woman, but she knew I was'nt straight going into the relationship, so that's a bit different than your situation.

Check out this website, there's people like u who have written in and have gotten good responses from the doctors.

http://www.sexualhealth.com/index.php

There's no majic bullet answer though, and it will be a bit difficult for your wife or yourself or both, depending on how things go.

The thing is, from my own experience, the male feelings will never go away, and the female ones probably won't either, so it comes down to making decisions and compromises that suit all involved, yowsa!

[Mrs.F]

I'm a 35 year old male who has been married for 10 years (we've been together for almost 16 years total including dating). I've been attracted to guys my whole life, but lived the straight life and pushed it aside. Over the last several years, I've gotten older, matured and allowed myself admit this to myself. During this period I found it harder and harder to deny and finally about a month ago I came out to my wife admiting my sexuality, not that I fully understood it at that point and still don't. We are now stuggling to understand what this means to our marriage. She's frustrated by me not being able to give her clear answers and I can't becuause I don't fully understand it myself.

I'm having a very difficult time understanding how to fulfil the more gay side of my sexuality. I've read articles on here about guys being fulfiled by different things (i.e. just hangin with another guy, cuddling with a guy, having a deep conversation with another guy (like women do), being physical with another guy or an emotional connection with another guy). The eternal question that I'm struggling with is how do I get to the bottom of understanding what I need to be a full person? I can imagine getting to the bottom of this if I was a single 21 year old out there playing the field. I imagine that I would eventually figure out what works FOR ME, but that the "trying different items on the buffet" method does not work when you're already in a monogamous relationship and trying to preserve a family.


Confused in Canada!! :male:


It's amazing how much you and your wife are like my husband (Flounder) and I. :)
When I found out about my husband I wanted to know answers but was afraid to hear them. It was tough. Then when I finally got to where I could ask the questions, he didn't always have an answer because he was also confused about his feelings. We've talked alot since that time, which has been 2 yrs. now. We have come a long way actually. He knows now what he wants and I am OK with all of it. We have met many friends on here and ONE in person. We have become very good friends and I know for both of them being able to discuss their feelings and desires with another is great, after keeping so hidden and to yourself for so long. (nothing sexual has to always take place, just being together and talking goes a long way) I am very happy and love my husband more then ever. However, it does take time for both of you to work through this together. And you must work through it together or your relationship will never survive on good terms.. In time things will seem more normal and not so confusing. :grouphug:

[jackies]

It's amazing how much you and your wife are like my husband (Flounder) and I. :)
When I found out about my husband I wanted to know answers but was afraid to hear them. It was tough. Then when I finally got to where I could ask the questions, he didn't always have an answer because he was also confused about his feelings. We've talked alot since that time, which has been 2 yrs. now. We have come a long way actually. He knows now what he wants and I am OK with all of it. We have met many friends on here and ONE in person. We have become very good friends and I know for both of them being able to discuss their feelings and desires with another is great, after keeping so hidden and to yourself for so long. (nothing sexual has to always take place, just being together and talking goes a long way) I am very happy and love my husband more then ever. However, it does take time for both of you to work through this together. And you must work through it together or your relationship will never survive on good terms.. In time things will seem more normal and not so confusing. :grouphug:


Mrs. F....

I have been reading posts from you to other people for a while now and I want to thank you for being amazing. My husband and I are going through this same thing. I found out in November after an infidelity occured. He is beyond sorry...it was terrifying. We have been working through it and we are going to stay together and remain monogamous. It has been a very scary time and reading things that you have written to others has helped me a great deal....thank-you...

[Mrs.F]

Mrs. F....

I have been reading posts from you to other people for a while now and I want to thank you for being amazing. My husband and I are going through this same thing. I found out in November after an infidelity occured. He is beyond sorry...it was terrifying. We have been working through it and we are going to stay together and remain monogamous. It has been a very scary time and reading things that you have written to others has helped me a great deal....thank-you...


I'm so glad that I can help! While my husband never did anything behind my back with another....It was scary when I found out also. And coming to this site and talking to others in MY shoes helped me through it also. I came here to understand him but in the end I learned so much more and have made many friends. That's why we are family here.... :grouphug: And thank you for thinking I'm amazing. That was a wonderful compliment.. :bigrin:

[truelove201]

I'm so glad that I can help! While my husband never did anything behind my back with another....It was scary when I found out also. And coming to this site and talking to others in MY shoes helped me through it also. I came here to understand him but in the end I learned so much more and have made many friends. That's why we are family here.... :grouphug: And thank you for thinking I'm amazing. That was a wonderful compliment.. :bigrin:

I would second Jackie's comment. I have also read many of your posts and have found them to help me tremendously. I'm the other half of truelove and this whole thing has turned my world upside down. I feel lost and alone...things are getting better however they are still so fresh and fragile. Thanks to people like you and Jackie and many others on this site I don't feel as alone in this.

[truelove201]

It's amazing how much you and your wife are like my husband (Flounder) and I. :)
When I found out about my husband I wanted to know answers but was afraid to hear them. It was tough. Then when I finally got to where I could ask the questions, he didn't always have an answer because he was also confused about his feelings. We've talked alot since that time, which has been 2 yrs. now. We have come a long way actually. He knows now what he wants and I am OK with all of it. We have met many friends on here and ONE in person. We have become very good friends and I know for both of them being able to discuss their feelings and desires with another is great, after keeping so hidden and to yourself for so long. (nothing sexual has to always take place, just being together and talking goes a long way) I am very happy and love my husband more then ever. However, it does take time for both of you to work through this together. And you must work through it together or your relationship will never survive on good terms.. In time things will seem more normal and not so confusing. :grouphug:

:female: We have also made a new friend that is helping us through this. Things seem to be moving quicker than I would like. I just had a tough conversation yesterday with my husband where I was clear to him that what he was doing was not cool. I used the example that I don't play footsies and hold hands and gaze deeply into my friends eyes (there was alcohol involved) and that it shouldn't be ok for him. He agreed. I think our communication is the only thing that has kept us afloat besides the fact that we love eachother so deeply. How has your husband overcome his desire to have sex with men? Or has he? My husband would really benefit from chatting with him.

[biwords]

[QUOTE=truelove201]The eternal question that I'm struggling with is how do I get to the bottom of understanding what I need to be a full person? I can imagine getting to the bottom of this if I was a single 21 year old out there playing the field. I imagine that I would eventually figure out what works FOR ME, but that the "trying different items on the buffet" method does not work when you're already in a monogamous relationship and trying to preserve a family.QUOTE]

It may be difficult to figure out 'what works for you' if your starting point is that monogamy must be preserved at all costs. Conversely, if monogamy is the paramount goal, you may have to give up inquiring into what works for you and just put the marriage first regardless of what that means to you in terms of self-denial. Whether that's sustainable or not is something only you can judge. Some spouses are willing to license limited experimentation, at least under some circumstances or for a given period; not a bad solution, if the spouse finds this psychologically bearable.

[truelove201]

:female: I think putting the marriage and the family first is definately the priority. I don't want him to revert to denial. I guess I don't understand why not having sex is denial. Why can't he explore who he is emotionally and not sexually. I don't have to have sex with a women to know that it would be pleasurable. Getting off is getting off. This is what confuses me. The emotional connection makes more sense. Maybe I'm over analizing this...

[biwords]

:female: I think putting the marriage and the family first is definately the priority. I don't want him to revert to denial. I guess I don't understand why not having sex is denial. Why can't he explore who he is emotionally and not sexually. I don't have to have sex with a women to know that it would be pleasurable. Getting off is getting off. This is what confuses me. The emotional connection makes more sense. Maybe I'm over analizing this...

I hesitate to mix in further, but.....it's not true that 'getting off is getting off' (if that were so, people could just masturbate). The experience with a woman and with a man is qualitatively different. So SOME bisexual men (I don't say all) would experience monogamy as painful self-denial. For them, having the emotional connection alone with another man wouldn't be enough. In fact, some would want the sexual connection but not the emotional one.

[DiamondDog]

I hesitate to mix in further, but.....it's not true that 'getting off is getting off' (if that were so, people could just masturbate). The experience with a woman and with a man is qualitatively different. So SOME bisexual men (I don't say all) would experience monogamy as painful self-denial. For them, having the emotional connection alone with another man wouldn't be enough. In fact, some would want the sexual connection but not the emotional one.

All of that's very true.

Some bisexuals are fine with being monogamous and some feel like it's cutting off their right arm to be monogamous with one gender or both genders.

I fall into the category where the idea of being monogamous with one gender (specifically women) makes me feel trapped and I'd just get depressed and either wind up cheating and leave a woman for a relationship with a man, or I'd just never get that involved with a woman in the first place. I'm also not sure if I could even ever live with a woman either.

I'd be fine having a closed/exclusive relationship with a man though as I prefer relationships with men and just having casual sex/1 night stands with women, even though most women (especially heterosexual women) are into A LOT more high risk sex like bareback vaginal sex, or swallowing semen when giving oral sex, than gay/bi men are and lesbian/bi/queer women are.

This isn't to say that I couldn't have a relationship with a woman but if we did have one it would have to be an open relationship. So I could have sex with men without her there (as I mostly get sexual with gay/bi men and the gay men want absolutely nothing to do with women which I don't hold them at fault for or blame them for being this way, as I sometimes go through periods where I'm totally turned off by women not sexually attracted to them at all even if they are begging for me to have sex with me or throwing themselves at me, and I find the idea of having sex with a woman to be gross; but then I go back to being equal.), and she would have to be VERY femme and kinky and into bondage and SM as much as I am.

I'm into the idea of gender monogamy with a man but not with a woman since to me being in a closed/exclusive relationship with a woman, like the typical closed/exclusive relationship that most women want/desire would feel like cutting off my right arm!

[biwords]

I sometimes go through periods where I'm totally turned off by women not sexually attracted to them at all even if they are begging for me to have sex with me or throwing themselves at me

I know, don'tcha just HATE it when they do that? :)

[the mage]

Well, I often spout that sex should not be the cornerstone of the marriage but even that knowledge didn't prevent my first marriage from failing due to in part Bi sex. If you're able to talk about it and not be angry, as much as scared you're going to be ok.

As to why the mid life changes and the appearance of homo erotic thoughts the reasons are varied and you can research it well, but let me put it this way, there is no reason to fear it, as other than being new and strange there is no danger to you now. By being able to talk to someone you love even if they do not play with you (my Lady does not) you are both safer in knowing its happening.

Remember we are all just animals as much as we'd like to forget it, we have primal drives. Sex and Death are always playing in the background as primal drive mechanisms. To attempt to analyze the altered pathways of your aging mind will cost you far more pain and money than trying a bit of squeeze in a safe place with someone you are hot for.
Monogamy was created by a controlling church/state it is not a state of nature for us Bi peds.
It is sane and reasonable of you to want a bit of mental connection with a potential lover. You probably will never love a same sex play mate, theres no reason to fear being friends with one.

[DiamondDog]

Well, I often spout that sex should not be the cornerstone of the marriage but even that knowledge didn't prevent my first marriage from failing due to in part Bi sex. If you're able to talk about it and not be angry, as much as scared you're going to be ok.

As to why the mid life changes and the appearance of homo erotic thoughts the reasons are varied and you can research it well, but let me put it this way, there is no reason to fear it, as other than being new and strange there is no danger to you now. By being able to talk to someone you love even if they do not play with you (my Lady does not) you are both safer in knowing its happening.

Remember we are all just animals as much as we'd like to forget it, we have primal drives. Sex and Death are always playing in the background as primal drive mechanisms. To attempt to analyze the altered pathways of your aging mind will cost you far more pain and money than trying a bit of squeeze in a safe place with someone you are hot for.
Monogamy was created by a controlling church/state it is not a state of nature for us Bi peds.
It is sane and reasonable of you to want a bit of mental connection with a potential lover. You probably will never love a same sex play mate, theres no reason to fear being friends with one.

I dunno if monogamy was created by a controling/church as some people are wired for monogamy or closed/exclusive relationships, and some people are wired for open relationships and neither one is better than the other or more advanced/evolved. Open relationships aren't something that transcends a closed/exclusive relationship.

Anyway who's to say that someone that's bi HAS to be non-monogamous or has to have an open relationship and not a monogamous, closed/exclusive one?

Or that you can't combine the two? Many people do try having an open relationship and then close it back up, or some people have a closed/exclusive relationship for a decade or more and then open it up and eventually close it again.

It's all a personal choice and everyone's different, and has different needs/wants desires for their personal relationships with others/loved ones.

Also I do seem to be in the minority here (in general and on this site) but I personally can fall in love with men/male sex partners, and I don't just want sex with men like lots of bi men do.

I have fallen in love with male friends who we've had sex together and I know it and they know it. :)

[truelove201]

:female: The falling in love part is what scares me as I know that it's a possiblility and I worry that should he "try" he may like it more. I know he's worried about the same thing. Why does this have to be so hard? I mean...why can't he love me, enjoy me and see what happens. It feels like life is passing us by while we struggle through trying to predict the future. I know all of the answers will come with time so why can't we just "live" in the meantime?

[DiamondDog]

:female: The falling in love part is what scares me as I know that it's a possiblility and I worry that should he "try" he may like it more. I know he's worried about the same thing. Why does this have to be so hard? I mean...why can't he love me, enjoy me and see what happens. It feels like life is passing us by while we struggle through trying to predict the future. I know all of the answers will come with time so why can't we just "live" in the meantime?


I don't mean to make you worry or anything but your husband could always have stronger romantic feelings for a man than his wife.

We don't plan on who we fall into infatuation/love with.

When I was younger I assumed that I was more into women when it came to being bisexual, since society pressures men to be this way and I did have lots of inklings and hints about how I love/get infatuated with men as a kid/teenager but at the time I thought that every guy was like this.

But over time as I got more sexually active with men and started dating men I realized that I shouldn't hold myself to the outdated heteronomanative standards that my hetero friends have when it comes to sex/dating/sexuality/gender and how I shouldn't apply these standards to my own queer sexuality.

I'm not talking about monogamy/fidelity in the above paragraph. I'm talking more about the idea that having more than one sexual partner at the same time is "bad", how the idea of doing bondage/SM is "bad", how sex has to be defined and equal penetration of an anus or a vagina only, how you shouldn't have sex at all with strangers, how you should have a very limited number of sex partners, how women get put down in heterosexual society, and how I have to act a certain way or take on certain roles because of my biological gender.

I never dated women or at least not as actively as my hetero friends have, like having a girlfriend or going on more than one date with a woman and I don't really regret this since I'm REALLY picky when it comes to women and sometimes I will go for periods of time (sometimes as long as 6 months) where I'm not sexually attracted to women at all and I find the idea of being with a woman to be well, icky. Then I'll go back to being equal in my attractions.

I do admit that when it comes to women I am probably more into just having flings/casual sex with women but with men I want the exact opposite. I want romance/intimacy/a relationship/communication and trust with a man.

I also feel that many men, even if they claim that they can't fall in love with men at all, are mostly this way because of societal conditioning and fear of being intimate/romantic with a man, and showing a man aspects of themselves that they keep hidden from their wives or that only come out when they are intimate and sexual with another man.

I know that not all bisexuals can or do fall in love with both genders but I think that lots of bi men say that they can't fall in love with men at all because they are conditioned to be this way.

I've found that sex/intimacy/romance with men was and still is an amazing thing, and that more men should be open to it before saying "oh I could NEVER fall in love with a man".

While I've enjoyed sex with women and limited relationships with women I probably lean more towards men personally since I do get more infatuated with men than women.

I would be fine with being, and I'd prefer being in a closed/exclusive relationship with a man but if I were with a woman it would have to be an open relationship or else I'd get depressed/feel trapped, and I'd probably cheat or just leave and have a relationship with a man. I even knew this about myself when I was 16/17.

[Mrs.F]

:female: The falling in love part is what scares me as I know that it's a possiblility and I worry that should he "try" he may like it more. I know he's worried about the same thing. Why does this have to be so hard? I mean...why can't he love me, enjoy me and see what happens. It feels like life is passing us by while we struggle through trying to predict the future. I know all of the answers will come with time so why can't we just "live" in the meantime?


Totally understand your feelings here. I had the same fears. What if he found a guy, liked that guy better because of-course that guy can give him something I can't and decided that he didn't want to be married to me anymore. This is all normal feelings and worries. My husband made sure he told me daily that he loved me. He told me daily that he was NEVER going to leave me and that he would never do anything behind my back or until I was ok with it all. After the 1st yr. I believed him and trusted him and knew that he loved me. Now it's 2 yrs. later and we have met a man in person. It took me awhile to get to this point....however, I am totally involved. We've met twice, gone out to eat, talked both times. Nothing sexual has happened at all (yet), but being with another who has the same feelings and desires and questions helps alot.
I know it's hard, but you can't let this take over your marriage 24/7. You do have a life and you should live as you always have. Just keep talking to each other. I know you want answers to all questions now but he's struggling with this himself and he doesn't know how to deal with it all yet. I used to hate people telling me TIME, COMMUNICATION will heal both of you and allow things to be back as they were. But......it's true!
Just be there for each other. Your both struggling with new feelings that you don't know how to deal with....but you have each other so help each other through it. :grouphug:

I hope I make sense when I talk....I ramble on and sometimes forget what I started out talking about...... :eek: :compuser:

[angelicvalkyrie]

I'm a 35 year old male who has been married for 10 years (we've been together for almost 16 years total including dating). I've been attracted to guys my whole life, but lived the straight life and pushed it aside. Over the last several years, I've gotten older, matured and allowed myself admit this to myself. During this period I found it harder and harder to deny and finally about a month ago I came out to my wife admiting my sexuality, not that I fully understood it at that point and still don't. We are now stuggling to understand what this means to our marriage. She's frustrated by me not being able to give her clear answers and I can't becuause I don't fully understand it myself.

I'm having a very difficult time understanding how to fulfil the more gay side of my sexuality. I've read articles on here about guys being fulfiled by different things (i.e. just hangin with another guy, cuddling with a guy, having a deep conversation with another guy (like women do), being physical with another guy or an emotional connection with another guy). The eternal question that I'm struggling with is how do I get to the bottom of understanding what I need to be a full person? I can imagine getting to the bottom of this if I was a single 21 year old out there playing the field. I imagine that I would eventually figure out what works FOR ME, but that the "trying different items on the buffet" method does not work when you're already in a monogamous relationship and trying to preserve a family.


Confused in Canada!! :male:

I guess I would say it is going to be rough, but less stressful once you can understand and get your wife to do the same.

I have been with the same man since I was 18 and we married when we weere both 21. I told hime after about two weeks of dating that I had an interest in females and had been intimate with them on many levels. Believe me, we went through all of it. When I say all of it I mean ALL of it from debates to Bibles.

I am twenty nine now and still with this man. I don't think he completely understands, but he has come to grips with it. He still asks me questions from time to time and I think last night it sunk in.

We went to the movies and out of nowhere in the parking lot he asks me " Are you a lesbian?" to which I reply "No" and it was as if he had an epiphany..."Ahhh, I guess you could truely consider yourself to be Bisexual?"
We both kind of smiled and laughed as we walked into the movie.

[3naib]

this is one of the most diverse and interesting communities. we all have such different needs and opinions. there is no 'norm' per se.

for me, being bi is a personal identification. whether i am in a het or homo relationship, i lean toward monogamy. i am not fixated on it and believe that healthy open relationships when there is a good foundation of trust and communication and honoring one another's boundaries can be healthy and happy.

i am not into casual anything and find those experiences lacking. i have to be engaged in some intellectual capacity to any person i am intimate with. the times i've fucked casually, i've felt like my spirit suffered.

i think dishonesty is abhorrent and sometimes its hard for me not to be terribly judgmental of anyone seeking to rationalize or seduce others without mutual consent of their partner on this site.

i have learned that there seem to be 2 basic types of people that identify as 'bi'.
1) those that think it doesn't matter what's between your legs; they are (hetero- *OR* homo-) and seek sex and to couple and have relationships (open or closed) with other humans, even if they recognize societal or gender differences, and
2) those that see themselves as having 2 sexualities. they are (hetero- *AND* homo-) and would never feel satisfied with being limited to only one of those sexualities.

for those in category one- it is more of a philosophical identity choice. they would still identify themselves as bisexual even if they were in a homosexual monogamous relationship and never were sexually intimate with the opposite gender. and vise-versa (committed to a heterosexual monogamous relationship that does not engage with the same sex relations.)

think of it this way- PRACTICE does not always identify sexuality. if you are strait and have a one-time encounter with the same sex, and it was great but you have no compulsion to do that again, it does not mean you are automatically bi. it means you had a homoerotic experience. your experiences do not define you, YOU DO.

there is a great book that i've mentioned before and i think for people who are juggling with sexual identity and relationships. it is not specifically bi. there are lots of books about having sex with many partners, and there is only one i've found (and its a short gem of compiled wisdom it should be required reading for anyone on this site in a relationship!) called Redefining Our Relationships, by Wendy O'Matik. http://www.amazon.com/Redefining-Our-Relationships-Guidelines-Responsible/dp/1587900157
This is the most helpful guide to how to responsibly explore the possibilities of negotiating open relationships in all their variations and rules, what works for some, why and how it works, what are the snafus... it brought to light several scenarios i had not considered (how to deal with kids, for example, what people have done that works for them) This book uncovers and explores the emotional psychological aspects, not just the sexual... it is written by hetero, bi and homo authors... and does not offerer any dogmatic codes or judgments of "you should do this" or "this is how it works".

I have been in uncommitted relationships, where i was involved with more than one person. and i have been in monogamous relationships. i have never been in an open committed relationship, but see this as real possibility for how a healthy life-long partnership can grow and change and remain stable.

I hope you find your way inward, as well as outward. The answers are not all necessarily predicated on what you DO with your body/heart/mind, but what you think/feel/believe with your body/heart/mind.

A person does not need to sleep with the opposite sex to know whether they are strait. A gay virgin priest who has never engaged in sex, does not need to consummate the act to identify as gay inside.

Hope this perspective is helpful... and bravo for facing pain and challenge to both of you! It will ultimately be rewarding to go through this together, wherever it leads... to exploration outside the relationship, or not- you will both be greater for the exploration of honoring one another to be all that you are.


:flag1:

[truelove201]

:male: Thank you very much for your incredibly insightful words. It's truly amazing how much time, thought and effort people have put into selflessly helping others. The book you have recommended sounds like it could be helpful and I will look into purchasing it. Your encouragement and possitive attitude is truly appreciated and inspirational. Thank you again!

[CountryLover]

I used to run a support chat room for bi married men. I dealt with literally 1000's of men in all stages of accepting their bisexuality, within and with out relationships.

The one factor I noticed was so very prevalent was that the men who had wives who were informed and accepting, were intensely loyal to their spouses regardless if they were bi active or not.

Also, one thing you might want to talk about is limits. Figure out your OWN relationship rules, what works for YOU - not based on anything beyond your own needs. One couple I know worked it out this way: He promised his wife he would never do anything to endanger her, so he was very careful to go no farther than mutual masturbation with male partners. She felt safe, knew he'd always come home and that he loved her only. It worked out great for them. And yes, I spoke with her many times to get her side of things.

I agree with DiamondDog - some of us are hardwired monogamous and some of us are not. It's not an orientation or gender thing at all.