Fred Phelps

[whattodo]

I was looking at a post earlier about Rev. Jerry Falwell dieing. As I tend to turn the channel when I hear news reports of people that are against our troops, I had not heard of Fred Phelps. I did an online search about him and came upon his Web site.

http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

I am a proud American Veteran, that feels that even if we do not agree with the war in Iraq we should at least agree to support the men and women that are out there protecting our country. This group is going around the country picketing the deaths of American Soldiers with signs that say "Pray for more Dead Soldiers". I hope that this angers you as much as it does me.

I just had to put this out so that people would know what these people are doing. In the end, enter their site and see for youself and make up your own minds.

[12voltman59]

I was looking at a post earlier about Rev. Jerry Falwell dieing. As I tend to turn the channel when I hear news reports of people that are against our troops, I had not heard of Fred Phelps. I did an online search about him and came upon his Web site.

http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

I am a proud American Veteran, that feels that even if we do not agree with the war in Iraq we should at least agree to support the men and women that are out there protecting our country. This group is going around the country picketing the deaths of American Soldiers with signs that say "Pray for more Dead Soldiers". I hope that this angers you as much as it does me.

I just had to put this out so that people would know what these people are doing. In the end, enter their site and see for youself and make up your own minds.

I have gone to some of the funerals of our departed soldiers from this area with some peace groups that I do some things with---at one of the funerals--one of Phelps' affiliated groups was there--and we also had a local chapter of that group of Vietnam era-Harley ridin' vets who come to stand between themselves and the Phelps crowd.

For anyone who did not go to the link and does not know of this group--they are against "fags" obviously --since they know that "God Hates Fags" and our soldiers are dying don't ya know because this country accepts homosexuality.

Well they came and the hard as nails looking Vietnam vets come with their Harleys decked out with American Flags, flags of each of the five US Armed Services and POW/MIA flags...park em and get off and form up...

They park their bikes in the area in front of where the Phelps gorrilla squad are protesting -- those people yelling to some poor grieving mother that her son died because "American loves faggots!" and much worse things--so much for being a Christian--

The bikers look at the numbnuts--fold their arms---don't say a word except for one command from someone in the group: "COMPANY--ABOUT FACE!!!!!!" and in unison and as if all of those years since they saw duty were but a flash--they do a crisp about face and turn their backs to the dim light bulbs on the other side of the street!!!

I admire them for that, because--my impulse is to go over and tell those stupid, ignorant, dumb ass fucks--that they are so full of it!!!

Me and some other guys--military vets all-- were in a conversation the other day talking about the Phelps group--we agreed it is best to not respond to those idiots -that would give them what they want--but we wouldn't mind having a 50 cal sniper rifle set up on a high point with a clear line of site on them and then start taking a few of those sick bastards out!!!!!!

[12voltman59]

Ohhh my God!!!!!

I knew those people were whacked but holy fucking shit!!!!


Go read some of the postings on their website--God help us all we have such stupid people in our midst--

Now anyone who would defend these people's positions on here---noooooo

You can defend their right to free speech but my God---go link on the thread and read what they have to say out of their own mouths....

I ought to go do what Bob Nestor Marley mon say in his song mon--bomb dem church---

[Azrael]

This guy is a charlatan at best. His "congregation" consists of 80 % blood relatives.

[Solomon]

This guy is a charlatan at best. His "congregation" consists of 80 % blood relatives.

good god, you mean this vomit has infected the world with afterbirths??

see? name calling CAN be useful and fun! :bigrin:

[12voltman59]

This guy is a charlatan at best. His "congregation" consists of 80 % blood relatives.

Well AZ--it is not just his little church out in Oklahoma--they apparently have other independent little congregations who are allied with them---the group that was at the funeral I went to was some little church out in rural area west of Cincinnati---or maybe they were from down in northern Kentucky.

And they have groups that show up at funerals of soldiers all over the country, but most do seem to come from places in the Midwest, South and Southwest...


I had only attended that one solider's funeral, but someone from the group try to go to every funeral of soldiers who die from this region and the crazies have only shown up a few of them--no others in Ohio but at a few in Kentucky and Indiana---

I wish I could remember that group of biker vets who go to the funerals--they try to go to as many funerals as possible even if the crazies don't go just to show that one group of vets has this current generation in their hearts and minds---but to my knowledge--they don't say anything to the members of the families or even come close to the main funeral party--they merely show up and remain distant just to show their support.

There is this one member of the group--he goes to every solider funeral he can and always calls to get permission since he is there taking videos at each one to document the funerals. He said he has spoken to the family members at most of them--they don't like the Phelps related people but they do like the fact the vets have shown up to show support whether the nutzos are there are not....

[s_shunpike]

This gentleman (and I use that term loosely) and his "congregation" came to our little town several years ago to protest the play about the young man killed in Wyoming.

In an amazing show of solidarity against his "church" every church and pastor in our town got together and took out a full page ad in the local paper denouncing the teachings of this man!

I found it absolutely amazing that this man is so screwed up in his thoughts and teachings that even the most stringent churches were denouncing him!

[whattodo]

12Volt,

I am wondering if the vets you are refering to are a branch of the American Legion Freedom riders. They are a group within the American Legion. I know that I would not be as calm as those gentleman were, I have a bad temper when it comes to people bad mouthing our military members for any reason.

[12voltman59]

12Volt,

I am wondering if the vets you are refering to are a branch of the American Legion Freedom riders. They are a group within the American Legion. I know that I would not be as calm as those gentleman were, I have a bad temper when it comes to people bad mouthing our military members for any reason.


I have to hand it to the bikers-I think you are right-I was sure as hell pissed off--I wanted to take a baseball bat or something and go over and start whailing on some of those people--the Phelps posse--man--they were foaming at the mouth, veins popping out in their foreheads and bright red faces and bulging eyes--they really were working themselves into a lather--almost literally-----yelling some pretty profane things about "fags", Jews, Catholics, and others---these folks are really some hate filled people---and they play the blame game--everyone else is to blame for the troubles they have in their lives and in the world in general---

but they are kinda of scary--and man are they some mean, hateful, spiteful people

The whole while though--the bikers just stood there and were quiet --one of them did tell me to not let them bother me though----I was there with a "peace" group after all---and it would not have been good if I had gone and started banging on one of them--but it was hard to let them spew their crap without responding --but hey--I remained cool.....I would not really have bashed any of them but I really wanted to go say some things to them--not that would have done any good---I just cannot imagine they hold signs up saying things like: "Mother, your son burns in hell!!!!"

Go to their site--they have a count on how many days different soldiers are burning in hell---this is some sick shit!!!!!!

[12voltman59]

I continue to go back to the Phelp's website--and I will say this--they are not stupid people, they are crazy fucking people but not stupid. This is a very sophisticated and well done website, and they use very good English and grammar, sentence structure and such.

They have laid out in their views of Biblical teachings---the reasons why they do as they do and why they believe what they believe--they have a huge FAQ section that "answers" the questions they get.

This group is definitely something to be concerned with---their views are very extreme---while they do not openly and expressly advocate violence against people--they lay out why God sanctions bad things happening to the damned and by their reckoning---everyone but those who believe their extremist views are damned----

Their God is not a loving God--they have an FAQ that "answers" why that is so--that God does not love everyone---and most are damned and its ok if bad things happen to them--if a man decides to take action against their "enemies" (and folks--each and every one of us here are their enemies for a whole host of reasons, forget the fact we are "fags" and as enemies of them--we deserve every bad thing that happens to us)---that is just fine for that man is acting in God's name---and when the state would try him for your murder--it would be the evil Mamon or Babylon persecuting a rioteous man doing the work of God!!!

These people are my worst nightmare--they do compare to Nazis or to Taliban or Al Qaeda--in fact--they make those gangs look like a bunch of Sunday school choir boys---

I do have a concern though--they might backtrack the link we have up between their site and ours and then they will know about us---as I said--they have a very technically sophisticated and well done web site---so whoever does it is very technically savy and literate---

PS--They have a link on there to one of their releases--its official--we all need to be put to death--they call for all nations of the world to immediately criminalize sodomy and put all those who practice it to death--as soon as possilbe in order to avoid God's wrath----

[whattodo]

The more I look at this groups website, the more I wonder if they are rejects from the KKK. They have the same hard line stance as the KKK but they are using God as a justification for their stances. I believe in the Freedom of speech, but somethings what freedom of speech allows, makes me sick. I fought for their right to say what they want to, but I also fought for the right to totally and emplistically be and say things against them and thier beliefs. The main thing I know is that you can not reason with religious zealots, and that is why we are having such a hard time with Al Quida and the Taliban. I just hope that someday man kind will be past this kind of thing.

[bigirl_inwv]

Here in West Virginia there was the Sago mining disaster. They protested the funerals of the miners who were killed. It really upset me. So I started reading up on Phelps and his church. There is a story written about him called Addicted to Hate. The children who left the church told the story and of course, the family denies that any of the things ever happened. You can read it online, I suggest anyone who is interested look it up and read it.

I wrote them an email telling them what I thought of them as nicely as I could put it. They wrote me back, throwing bible verses up and saying that all these things happened because of how "fag infested" West Virginia is. They ended the email with "Eneey Meeny Miney Mo...Pick a Mine and Watch it Blow!"

I don't think I've ever felt such disgust at a group of people in my entire life.

The worst part of it all is that these people aren't ignorant. They are all EXTREMELY well educated and exceptionally intellegent. Even though it may seem quite the contrary.

[Azrael]

Here in West Virginia there was the Sago mining disaster. They protested the funerals of the miners who were killed. It really upset me. So I started reading up on Phelps and his church. There is a story written about him called Addicted to Hate. The children who left the church told the story and of course, the family denies that any of the things ever happened. You can read it online, I suggest anyone who is interested look it up and read it.
I have. Gripping stuff, to say the least. The whole clan are practicing lawyers except the old man who was disbarred in his younger years.

[12voltman59]

The website they do is very sophisticated and well done-and they can justify anything at all since they and they alone--forget the Catholic church--the Baptists and everyone else are blashemers and such--so they can condem at will.

To me--they commit other than muder and rape--one of the most heinous and profound sins "man" can commit--claiming outrightly and unequivocally that they and they alone know the mind of God!!!!!

That is a sin almost beyond all sins---I had thought of sending them a message--stating that fact--but they are so good at throwing up dust and spinning everything relying on scripture and such---they don't listen--and trying to reach their hardened hearts--at least while they are in amongst the trees of the forest they are in is a fool's errand--

Responding to them only feeds into their sickness----

But I do say--they are a pretty damn scary crowd---

And no---they are not dummies--they are obviously bright people.

They are sick--with the worst kind of sickness--a sickness of the soul---only they can pull themselves out from the darkness they are in....and in my book--they may claim a direct line to God--but they are so far removed from God--they can't even begin to see the faintest ray of light.......

If, God forbid--God is really like this--then I am consigned to the fires of hell--and I don't want any part of that God--to quote Milton: " it's better reign in hell than serve in heaven.."

[elian]

The beauty thing about this guy is he offends SO many people that he actually usually ends up being a unifying force in the community. As in, most people rally AGAINST their bigotry.

I'm not so sure that if he didn't say "Thank God for 9/11" that the straight folks around here wouldn't just agree with his homophobic message.

Our church has been picketed, and we all went to the "Unity Day" rally when they came to town to protest the showing of "Jim In Bold" - a documentary film about Jim Wheeler - a young gay teen who committed suicide in one of the local High Schools.

As if seeing this film was going to "turn more folks gay" - I think what they were worried about is more along the lines of "seeing this film puts a human face on" the issues that they are trying to demonize and sweep under the rug.

They apparently picketed at the home of the Wheeler family, and at their church for "supporting the family" - the Unity Day rally was nice - it was a nice reminder that even in a conservative area there are still folks who value diversity and stand up against prejudice.

-E

[NorthBiEast]

Wikipedia has a great article about Phelps too, talking about how he came to have these views and why he was disbarred, etc. It seemed to me that he was using his extreme views, under the guise of religion, to cover for the fact that he was an abusive drunk who terrorized his own children.

The BBC did a bit on them that was really revealing. I can't remember the title now, but its on youtube. Phelp's daughter, who is the leader-in-chief now, made it very clear that their goal is not to convert people to their methodology, but just to let us all know that we (anyone who doesn't agree with them and live their way) are going to hell, just in case we thought otherwise.

The thing that scares me is that she really seems to believe what she's saying. She's got her kids out there spouting that crap and they don't even know what it means. They're going to grow up to be just like the rest of them, only because they don't know any better.

I'm not in a position (not being God's spokesperson) to say whether what they are saying is true or not, but the way they are going about it certainly seems like the Devil's hand to me. :devil:

[12voltman59]

What does get me about Phelps and his group---he does apparently seem to be finding allied groups in other places who feel the same way---they do seem to be able to muster up people for their "protests" in places all over the country--granted--the one group that came to the thing I went to last year--it was about this time last year---was less than 10 people and I don't know if any of them were actually from Phelps' direct group---but with the internet-and instant communication devices like Blackberries---that is all it takes for them to network with like minded folks who do hold their extremist views--

Think of what Hitler and the rest of his crew did without something like the Internet--so just imagine what they could have done had they had the net---thankfully---these people with such extremist and repugnant views are a very small minority--and since they pretty much hate and attack everyone else but their kind--they will hopefully remain a fringe element---but at least thanks to the net and whattodo's post--we know that such people are out there--even though I had seen some of these folks in action--I did think much of them--but to read their stuff--kinda makes me shiver meeee bones!!!!

And I did contact the Southern Poverty Law Center--that is civil right's attorney Morris Dee's group out of Alabama--he was the one who basically broke the back of the modern Klan by suing them in civil court on some point and got the court to order such a high award--it sent the group members into bankruptcy.

Maybe Dees can do the same thing to Phelps and his crew--and of course--Phelps has choice things to say about Dees on the site.

The SPLC is watching the activites of the Phelps and his "church"

[Solomon]

maybe if this group allies closely enough, then it'd be no problem to blow'em all to their version of heaven..... and then there could be another step up on the gene pool ladder....

[izzfan]

There is something seriously wrong with these people, I saw a documentary about them a few months ago on the BBC. I am not a Christian but I do know a bit about the Christian religion and it is generally based on love rather than extreme hatred. In fact, there is some evidence that Jesus at least tolerated gay people [ check out www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com for more about this ].

In fact, I was actually discussing Fred Phelps and his band of hate-mongers with someone recently and I'm strongly considering sending them a joke e-mail [they publish correspondence on their website, its both disturbing and quite funny (to see how absurd they fundamentalists are) and it can be seen at http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/dearshirley/dearshirley.html]. Chances are that they've seen it before but I think that someone should send them that well-known joke e-mail that starts with "As a true Christian, I adminre your rigid adherence to biblical doctrine but I have a few other theological questions: 1) Everyday, I offer a burnt sacrifice as ordered in the book of Leviticus, however the neighbours are complaining about the smell - what should I do? 2) I have caught someone wearing clothes of mixed fabric (insert random old testament reference here) should I stone them myself or should it be a communty effort? etc..." I can't remeber the whole thing but it is quite funny and I have a feeling it was posted on this site a while ago.

Izzfan :flag2:

[elian]

Admire your sense of humor and effort - but save the energy - they are ALWAYS on the defensive so I doubt the humor would be appreciated - it would probably just add fuel to their "righteousness" in decrying you as a "false Christian" - nevermind that you aren't..that's irrelevant or even worse in their eyes.

It's a sad situation - unfortunately it seems to take all kinds of people to make the world go around - even jerks.

-E

[FalconAngel]

I've seen stuff on these religious nuts. They are no better than the Taliban, the Nazis, PLO, IRA or Branch Davidians.

I am also a Vet (78-84) and I am also a shrewd student of history. The fact that the leadership is crazy, is undeniable, but the followers are the stupid (perhaps Gullible is more accurate) ones.
Too many times in our world's history, religious leaders have used their faith to create acts of aggression and war; 3 Crusades, the witch hunts in Europe and America, the 30 years war, the 100 years war, Hitler's "final solution", the Indian wars, racial violence by the KKK, Arab Terrorism, ethnic cleansing in Serbia and Croatia, 9/11.......the list goes as far back as there has been organized religion. The leaders always send their devoted followers to to do the killing for them.

That group is one step away from becoming officially classified as terrorists. Most typically, actions like this are started by Christian extremists and, unfortunately, it will give the good Christians a bad name. Just like Arab Terrorists give good Muslims a bad name.

[Solomon]

it's probably best to just look at these people, smile, nod, and get as far away from'em as possible

these are the kind of people that are just so absurd in their thinking that it's draining to even contemplate drawing their attention let alone arguing with'em...

if they are lawyers, then it just supports that people can have knowlege out the ying yang, and still have very little understanding... and i think that that equates to very little potential