Denmark and Norway

[happyjoe68]

I'm going to Denmark and Norway for a holiday later next month to see an old Norwegian friend and celebrate mid-summer in true Viking style, but I would like to hear from anyone who has experience of the scene in Copenhagen - comments, observations, etc. I know its a very liberal country, but any tips are welcome.

I've been to Oslo before so I know what to expect, but it will be "Skeive Dager" ("Queer Days" aka Oslo Pride) and I would like to know if anyone has been to this. Unfortunately my friend isnt queer in any respect and doesnt know I am, so participation will be somewhat restricted ...

Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to going back to the Land of the Midnight Sun - it'll be my second dose of North European rationality this year

[Dagni]

Well i can tell you everything about Denmark and Norway, since i consider all 5 Scandinavian countries as one, and my wife is half Norwegian, born and grew up on high north.

Danmark: First of all, in København you can expect liberal behaviour on every step, and that's very intresting city, much more livable than any other Scandinavian place. You can find absolutely everything, since København never sleeps and there's fun on every step. But also you must be very careful cause there is some parts of the cities which is not that safe...a lots of drugs, prostitution and really strange behaviour.

Norge: Oslo is great, you saw it specialy Frognerpark og Karl Johan gate, and Viking museum in Bigdøy. But also pay attention on great lovely forest Numarka, all over the Oslo and of course Holmenkollen. That's a great place.
But i don't know what you mean when you told to celebrate all this in "Viking stile". That's a bit funny, you know, cause it's all part of history.

Skeve dager er fantastisk. I was been there few times with my wife, and people all over the world (but mostly from Danmark, Sverige og Finland), comes to that. It's a pride like anywhere else, just....more liberal, you know.

But personaly, i would rather recomend you some other areas in Norge, and some other great places like Trondheim, Lofot islands, and of course to see all those beautiful fjords.

There's also great adventure if you want it, to take Hurtigruta, it's sailing all over trough all bigger fjords. It's starting in Bergen and going up on far north in Kirkievens, at the Russian border. And you can see Midnight Sun too, but only in the middle of July.

But, as much northern you go people are much more colder, you know, very quiet (which is part of all Scandinavian mentality in general), so don't try to get that close with someone, to become a closer friend. It's very hard to melt those frozen hearts all over Scandinavia.

Well i don't know what to say anymore. All depends excactly what you looking for, but i do know every rock, every step in Scandinavia.
And don't worry, no one will yell at you (Scandinavians are very calm in every situation and simply we don't know to yell).

Just pack your bags, bring your coat and come over here.

[julie]

I know its a very liberal country, but any tips are welcome.

I've been to Oslo before so I know what to expect, but it will be "Skeive Dager" ("Queer Days" aka Oslo Pride) and I would like to know if anyone has been to this. Unfortunately my friend isnt queer in any respect and doesnt know I am, so participation will be somewhat restricted ...


If, as you say dear happy Joe, it is a very liberal country.... maybe this very liberal attitude could rub off on your friend? then maybe this could be a special outing for you in more ways than one?

go on, tell him, i dare you :suave:

huge cheeky hugs

Julie xxx

[happyjoe68]

Ty Julie

Well, I'm only there for a few days but the topic will come up in a roundabout way ... Its a liberal country but still somewhat conservative. He personally doesnt "approve" of queer-ness, yet listens to music made by people who are gay/queer etc.



Dagni

Thanks for the advice about Copenhagen. I know a lot of Oslo from spending a week there in October 2002, though I never made it to the Munch Museum. As for celebrating in Viking style, the planned celebration involves alcohol, a large fire and eating lots of meat ... I come from the coast of North-West of England, an area where Vikings settled, I have a great fondness for the Vikings, their skill as sailors, navigators, engineers, explorers and fantastic story-tellers (its a pity that English literature has no sagas, apart from "Beowulf", but the english language inherited the Viking love of word play, puns, riddles, plain speaking, and some great words like "skree").


I've yet to make it to Sweden or Finland, but I can feel a trip to Iceland and the Faroe Islands coming on at some point. Strange, but Germany and Scandanavia dont feel alien to me at all

[12voltman59]

This is a question to Dagni--you have said it in this thread and elsewhere that people from the Scandinavian countries tend to be "cold"--I have not had many dealings with Scandinavian people or those descended from them--but this musical husband/wife group that I like--the wife--Karin Berquist is of Scandinavian descent.

I have in recent months been around the couple some--the husband is very nice and accomodating, friendly and warm--while Karin seems to me to be somewhat standofish and "cold"---at least to me-she rarely says much to me at all--but she does seem friendly with the folks who she has known for awhile.

I kind of thought that she did not like me and I asked some of the others if I had offended her in some way --I was told that, "no, she can be like that till she gets to know ya better" which I can understand---and it might just be her way--

But what makes me think that maybe it's more than that--that it's her heritage--I am of Irish descent and while I've only been to Ireland one time--I've been told by my Irish brethren and others that I am a true Irishman--I have the gift of gab and all of that--

So Dagni--what do you think makes Scandinavians and people of that descent like that?---Karin was born and raised here in Ohio and she never made it to her family's country of origin till they went and did some shows there a few years back (she is 40ish now)--just like I did not get to Ireland till I was an adult.

I wonder what other people think---do ya think that even if we are several generations removed from those places our families came from and more or less assimilated the culture of places like America and Canada---did we keep traits that our "people" are known for due to some inherent trait or that some of the traditions of our families' original culture remained or a bit of both????

Just one of those things to make you go ""uuummmmmmmm???"

[Dagni]

Dagni

Thanks for the advice about Copenhagen. I know a lot of Oslo from spending a week there in October 2002, though I never made it to the Munch Museum. As for celebrating in Viking style, the planned celebration involves alcohol, a large fire and eating lots of meat ... I come from the coast of North-West of England, an area where Vikings settled, I have a great fondness for the Vikings, their skill as sailors, navigators, engineers, explorers and fantastic story-tellers (its a pity that English literature has no sagas, apart from "Beowulf", but the english language inherited the Viking love of word play, puns, riddles, plain speaking, and some great words like "skree").


I've yet to make it to Sweden or Finland, but I can feel a trip to Iceland and the Faroe Islands coming on at some point. Strange, but Germany and Scandanavia dont feel alien to me at all

Ja, jeg kan forstå det, og, du vet, situation is slightly different in Norway and those what you call "Viking celebration". Norwegians and Dans are not having celebrating like that. It's just part of history, and mostly people from outside Scandinavia are impressed with that "Viking style" of celebration, but from inside, it's completely different.

I know whole history about it, about how they reached even southern parts of Europe, at least Norwegian and Danish Vikings (Swedishs was mostly concered on Baltic sea, Finland, Russia).

There's even one small island near Island of Man where people still having some holiday in Viking style.

København, hmm,,,slightly different than rest of Scandinavia, it's actually conect Scandinavia with rest of Europe, so that's why city is so alive.
But i really recomend you to visit some other parts of Norway. Oslo is just capital and biggest city (450 000 ppl).


Julie:
In Scandinavia, joking about gay, bi or les stuffs is always taken very seriously, so all 5 countries here are liberal in practical things, but when you joke with someone about sexuality, that can be very very offending. I mean, no one will jump on you or hit you if say joke like that, they will just tell you "it's rude, please don't joke like that anymore".
So it's not that common to play that kind of jokes here.

[happyjoe68]

It was just a little humorous remark about celebrating in Viking style - my Norwegian friend treats it as an "in-joke" (we've known each other 16 years)

Actually the British view of the Vikings is not as stereotypical as people might think - this country owes them a lot - not just in terms of language, but also in terms of the role and relationship of the people and their rulers - a refreshing change to the colonisation by the Romans (quite why people call it the "Dark Ages" when the Romans left Britain is beyond me). Despite the Vikings warlike image (and this owes much to the Christian Church at the time), the Vikings were, I believe, great democrats (for their time). The Vikings did for Britain what the Moors did for Spain ... After all the Vikings were the founders of Russia and the ancestors of William the Conqueror from Normandy

Dagni, I can see the Isle of Man from where I live with the naked eye. Perhaps you're thinking of the celebration of Tynwald Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tynwald_Day), or perhaps you're thinking of Up Helly-Aa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Helly_Aa) in the Shetlands. The Shetlands are a curious place - they speak Gaelic, the native language of Scotland, but if you hear it, it sounds distinctly Norwegian.

[Dagni]

It was just a little humorous remark about celebrating in Viking style - my Norwegian friend treats it as an "in-joke" (we've known each other 16 years)

Actually the British view of the Vikings is not as stereotypical as people might think - this country owes them a lot - not just in terms of language, but also in terms of the role and relationship of the people and their rulers - a refreshing change to the colonisation by the Romans (quite why people call it the "Dark Ages" when the Romans left Britain is beyond me). Despite the Vikings warlike image (and this owes much to the Christian Church at the time), the Vikings were, I believe, great democrats (for their time). The Vikings did for Britain what the Moors did for Spain ... After all the Vikings were the founders of Russia and the ancestors of William the Conqueror from Normandy

Dagni, I can see the Isle of Man from where I live with the naked eye. Perhaps you're thinking of the celebration of Tynwald Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tynwald_Day), or perhaps you're thinking of Up Helly-Aa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Helly_Aa) in the Shetlands. The Shetlands are a curious place - they speak Gaelic, the native language of Scotland, but if you hear it, it sounds distinctly Norwegian.

Ja, jeg vet det. Actually, on the Island of Man (i often came there in visiting Nigel Mansell, you know him, Formula 1 champion in 1992), and what i heard over there on that small island is Nørorsk, old Norwegian language, Vikings spoke that language and you know, it's not similar at all with today 2 norwegian languages - bokmål and nynorsk, because when Denmark took over Norway, whole Norwegian language simply broke up and almost disappeared, but then Ivar Aasen came and "created" a new-norwegian language which is in use now.

That almost happend to Finnish language, but we fighted a lot to keep our language alive and not to accept Swedish as a main language.
But Finns were never Vikings. It's completely different people, completely different structure of people, completely different and most hardest language, and all real Finns, who never mixed with Swedes or Norwegians are blonde.

[julie]

Julie:
In Scandinavia, joking about gay, bi or les stuffs is always taken very seriously, so all 5 countries here are liberal in practical things, but when you joke with someone about sexuality, that can be very very offending. I mean, no one will jump on you or hit you if say joke like that, they will just tell you "it's rude, please don't joke like that anymore".
So it's not that common to play that kind of jokes here.

Erm, not sure what your point is here Dagni?

[maxtor]

was married in copenhagen in 1981.

yep, agree fully that the culture is very liberal there. i seen a lot when i was there. probably go back one of these days.

[Dagni]

Erm, not sure what your point is here Dagni?

ääää, missunderstanding. I was trying to explain that every kind of jokes about sexuality are taken very seriously here, you know, don't joke with anyone about sexuality, because people always taking everything serious here. I hope i explained now.......or i didn't.

[julie]

ääää, missunderstanding. I was trying to explain that every kind of jokes about sexuality are taken very seriously here, you know, don't joke with anyone about sexuality, because people always taking everything serious here. I hope i explained now.......or i didn't.

....but i'm not 'there' Dagni.... i'm here, in the UK, and so is my dear and close friend Joe..... and my joking around with him is just a feature of the friendship we have built up over the past couple of years.

....i still struggle to make sense of the point you are trying to make? are you asking/ telling me not to joke around with my friend?

[Dagni]

....but i'm not 'there' Dagni.... i'm here, in the UK, and so is my dear and close friend Joe..... and my joking around with him is just a feature of the friendship we have built up over the past couple of years.

....i still struggle to make sense of the point you are trying to make? are you asking/ telling me not to joke around with my friend?

Yes, i know that you're in Britain, and i didn't said anything about jokes over there, since it's different mentality between Brits and Scandinavians.

I was saying how people react here, here in Scandinavia when it comes to any sexual jokes.
I know how it is in UK and ok, i respect British humor, British aproach to any kind of jokes, but i was just pointed in Scandinavian mentality in general. I didn't had any intention to tell you how to joke with your friend, that's completely your right, but like i said on my horrible english (as you can see i find it very hard to explain what i want to say right now, don't ask me why ;) ), jokes about sexuality over here in Scandinavia is not well accepted.

[happyjoe68]

Ladies, ladies, can we please call a halt and agree to disagree?

Takk ...

[happyjoe68]

Incidentally, does anyone have any experience of the overnight ferries from Copenhagen to Oslo? (Thats how I'm getting from Copenhagen to Oslo) And I'm wondering whether they are enjoyable or slightly on the dull side since its roughly 12 hours for the crossing ...

[happyjoe68]

This is a question to Dagni--you have said it in this thread and elsewhere that people from the Scandinavian countries tend to be "cold"--I have not had many dealings with Scandinavian people or those descended from them--but this musical husband/wife group that I like--the wife--Karin Berquist is of Scandinavian descent.

I have in recent months been around the couple some--the husband is very nice and accomodating, friendly and warm--while Karin seems to me to be somewhat standofish and "cold"---at least to me-she rarely says much to me at all--but she does seem friendly with the folks who she has known for awhile.

I kind of thought that she did not like me and I asked some of the others if I had offended her in some way --I was told that, "no, she can be like that till she gets to know ya better" which I can understand---and it might just be her way--

But what makes me think that maybe it's more than that--that it's her heritage--I am of Irish descent and while I've only been to Ireland one time--I've been told by my Irish brethren and others that I am a true Irishman--I have the gift of gab and all of that--

So Dagni--what do you think makes Scandinavians and people of that descent like that?---Karin was born and raised here in Ohio and she never made it to her family's country of origin till they went and did some shows there a few years back (she is 40ish now)--just like I did not get to Ireland till I was an adult.

I wonder what other people think---do ya think that even if we are several generations removed from those places our families came from and more or less assimilated the culture of places like America and Canada---did we keep traits that our "people" are known for due to some inherent trait or that some of the traditions of our families' original culture remained or a bit of both????

Just one of those things to make you go ""uuummmmmmmm???"

Just dont get me started on inherited characteristics and the whole nature/nurture debate ... I'm of Spanish descent on my mum's side and its still in the DNA. Its come out in the skin, even in the depths of winter I'm browner than other Latins, and I sometimes wonder whether its come out in the personality as well.

As they say in Germany, Der Apfel fällt nicht weit vom Baum (The apple doesnt fall far from the tree) ... Or: What's in the dog, must come out in the pup

[Dagni]

Incidentally, does anyone have any experience of the overnight ferries from Copenhagen to Oslo? (Thats how I'm getting from Copenhagen to Oslo) And I'm wondering whether they are enjoyable or slightly on the dull side since its roughly 12 hours for the crossing ...

Joe, vær så snill, du kan spøre meg av allen tingene.

Just ask me, i know everything about Scandinavia. I've been few times on those ferries from København til Oslo and it can be fun. There's lot of activites to do on ferries, but be aware of strong wind, and it's too slow, you know, you need 8 hours to reach Oslofjord and then slow to Oslo. In this time of year, and trough all summer you will only see boats and ships all over Oslofjord.
Personally, i would rather recomend you to go trough Sweden, up trough Götenborg and then to enter in Norge. Car or buss, doesn't matter, it's nice to travel.

Hmm, i'm telling you this cause i'm enough of traveling by boats, ships, since i'm surrounded with seas and lakes my whole life.

[happyjoe68]

Unfortunately I wont have the time to go via Stockholm, though I do intend to go at some point, but thanks for the suggestion all the same

[Dagni]

Unfortunately I wont have the time to go via Stockholm, though I do intend to go at some point, but thanks for the suggestion all the same

Hmm,,,,i didn't mentioned Stockholm at all. But that's most prettiest city on planet (with Helsinki of course). I just tried to to tell you which way is better to travel from København til Oslo.

[happyjoe68]

Hmm,,,,i didn't mentioned Stockholm at all. But that's most prettiest city on planet (with Helsinki of course). I just tried to to tell you which way is better to travel from København til Oslo.

I've got capital cities on the brain at the moment ... I'm going back to Berlin this summer, and want to go the "Long Night of the Museums", but unfortunately it clashes with Manchester Pride. Intellectual fulfilment or alcoholic excess ... Hmm, its a tough one ...