Same Sex Relationships Against Nature?

[DuskTillDawn]

How do you argue with the idea that bi and homosexuality is not how its suposed to be, its against nature.

As far as I have been aware for most of my life, the point to sexual attraction is to reproduce but obviously in same sex relationships thats just not possible. So how do you argue against that because although I am bi myself I can see where they are coming from with this argument.

Plz help me make sense of this, cheers!

[scubaman]

How do you argue with the idea that bi and homosexuality is not how its suposed to be, its against nature.

As far as I have been aware for most of my life, the point to sexual attraction is to reproduce but obviously in same sex relationships thats just not possible. So how do you argue against that because although I am bi myself I can see where they are coming from with this argument.

Plz help me make sense of this, cheers!



For 99% of the animal kingdom sex is used for reproduction only. Humans and dolphins I believe, are the minority. We have sex for pleasure. While humans do use sex for reproduction, those times I would say are in the lower percentile compared with the number of times we have sex for pleasure only. So, bi sex falls into the catagory of pleasure, and what pleasure it is. :2cents:

[anne27]

Oh, I wish I had the link to that article now! There was an article I read a while back that listed all of the animals that had same sex encounters on a regular basis. Obviously, they were not trying to procreate, and yet, there they were-having sex with their own sex. It can't be against nature if nature is doing it all the time.

:2cents:

[scubaman]

Anne, great point! I had not thought about that when I replied. I am sure there are many. I will have to google that one!

[Solomon]

truthfully i don't argue with it

it's different strokes for different folks.... so for me to argue it would kinda like me arguing that everyone should do everything they can to become millionares

all i'm really doing is arguing with myself in the end...

[Long Duck Dong]

I am like solomon, I don't argue it

whats the point, its like arguing with a brick wall

nature is full of same sex relationships and creatures that can self impregnant...but people are gonna ignore that....cos it flies in the face of their narrow minded view

I normally use say to people, * in nature, animals eat their own kind....if we are meant to doing things according to how we see nature, can I have ya partner for dinner *

[Krystal]

Some of Rich Osborne's killer-whale pictures aren't suitable for children. But among adults, the director of the Whale Museum in Friday Harbor sometimes brings out the censored shots: Young males engaging in what might be described as a ribald form of fencing.

"We try not to impose values on these things," said Osborne, who has studied orcas for three decades. "But it looks pretty homosexual."

From whales to buffalo to Caspian terns, a profusion of animals exhibit behavior that in humans would be called gay.

In his book "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity," Seattle biologist Bruce Bagemihl estimates 450 species display some form of homosexuality, which can include same-sex courtship, displays of affection, sexual activity, long-term pairings and parenting.

• Up to 15 percent of Western gull pairs are females. The birds woo each other with gifts of food and form bonds that last for years. They build joint nests and tend clutches of unfertilized eggs. Occasionally, one or both females will mate with males, but they always raise their young together.

• In some penguin species, males form lifelong same-sex partnerships — especially in captivity. A pair named Roy and Silo in New York's Central Park Zoo incubated rocks until keepers gave them an egg of their own.

• Male giraffes spend most of their time in bachelor groups, where they entwine necks and rub against each other for up to an hour at a time. These "necking" sessions often culminate in mounting, and can outnumber heterosexual encounters 9 to 1.

It's rare for animals to be exclusively homosexual, Bagemihl said, but bisexuality is common. While male orcas seem to relish their same-sex romps, they mate with females, too. Virtually all bonobos, or pygmy apes, are bisexual.

None of this is surprising to field biologists, but many omit or gloss over homosexual behavior in their scientific reports. Others have tried to explain it away as a form of aggression or confusion.

In species like bonobos, same-sex behavior seems to help cement relationships and defuse conflict, said University of California biologist Marlene Zuk, author of "Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can't Learn About Sex From Animals."

Though it's tricky to impute motives to animals, the fact that homosexuality is so widespread shows it is not unnatural or biologically aberrant, she said. "But I'm leery of trying to use animals for models of our own behavior."

If the animal stories hold any lesson for human societies, Bagemihl said, it could lie in the dazzling variety of sexual behavior nature offers.

Sandi Doughton:

Copyright © 2005 The Seattle Times Company

[Rick30907]

How do you argue with the idea that bi and homosexuality is not how its suposed to be, its against nature.

As far as I have been aware for most of my life, the point to sexual attraction is to reproduce but obviously in same sex relationships thats just not possible. So how do you argue against that because although I am bi myself I can see where they are coming from with this argument.

Plz help me make sense of this, cheers!
================================================== ======

If something occurs in nature, then it's natural.

[FalconAngel]

What most everyone seems to forget, as far as sex, sexuality and attraction is that sometimes they are mutually exclusive.
We tend to forget, or often just are not aware of the fact, that sex is not JUST about procreation like the Catholic church spent centuries trying to get everyone to believe. Sex is also about stress relief and about convergence.

To get relief from stress, we often turn to sex. It allows us to vent our tension and, sometimes to vent (non-violently) our aggression, by turning it into passion.

Sex allows us to converge, in a physical (and sometimes spiritual sense) with people who we feel a close personal bond with, such as our mate or our closest friends (regardless of gender in the case of us Bisexuals).

And let's be honest here. It's just plain fun when we are all on the same page in bed. :P

[Seigun]

Stepping away from animals for a moment:

People , gay and straight, married and not, have sex.

Married or single:
Straight people have sex for pleasure. Straight people use various methods to prohibit childbirth. Some straight people choose never to have children, while choosing to lead an active sex life. Straight people as a whole never argue that having sex without wanting children out of every encounter is against nature. (except perhaps some Catholics, and other groups) Even the bible talks about sex for pleasure in positive ways without procreation.

Where is the importance of sex=childbearing in all of this?

Let other people bicker (badly) about the meaning of genitalia. Human beings, IMO, exist to pursue better purposes in life than to mindlessly copy and splice DNA.

:2cents:

[darkeyes]

How do you argue with the idea that bi and homosexuality is not how its suposed to be, its against nature.

As far as I have been aware for most of my life, the point to sexual attraction is to reproduce but obviously in same sex relationships thats just not possible. So how do you argue against that because although I am bi myself I can see where they are coming from with this argument.

Plz help me make sense of this, cheers!
Simple...if it wos against nature it wud neva hav been thought of far less existed!

[country60]

I just have a thought to share: when your male puppy jumps on your leg and starts pumping and holding on what is that all about? I believe that other mamals will, by instinct, "practice" what nature has implanted in their psycy. I believe that it was stated best by someone already..... it is all about the pleasure......... and lust :bigrin: That's my :2cents:

Country60

:cowboy:

[ambi53mm]

I just have a thought to share: when your male puppy jumps on your leg and starts pumping and holding on what is that all about? I believe that other mamals will, by instinct, "practice" what nature has implanted in their psycy. I believe that it was stated best by someone already..... it is all about the pleasure......... and lust :bigrin: That's my :2cents:

Country60

:cowboy:

Your male puppy could be experiencing Canis familiaris Patella Pheeliya that seems to be a common condition of young male dogs....in lay terms..a kneecap fetish...as a pet psychic I've tried unsucessfully to determine what seems to be going through the psyche but usually the answer I get is

".................................................. .........................................."

Which I've yet to figure out. :confused:

Ambi :)

[ghytifrdnr]

Oh, I wish I had the link to that article now! There was an article I read a while back that listed all of the animals that had same sex encounters on a regular basis. Obviously, they were not trying to procreate, and yet, there they were-having sex with their own sex. It can't be against nature if nature is doing it all the time.

:2cents:

Is this the one you meant? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/article1288633.ece

[selfcataclysm]

Well...how is it unnatural if it occurs in nature? That's always been my argument.

[LoveLion]

The argument I make: Come to my place and watch the two male dogs my next door neighbor owns. Then you will see some homosexuality in animals.

[Solomon]

since when is any one of us a dog or a dolphin or any other species other than human?

last time i checked we're the only animals that make chemical, nuclear, and biological WMD, or use the resources given to generate electricity, or mix natural elements to produce alloys, and the list goes on and on

so i get very confused when anyone tries to tell me fairy tales that if something doesn't happen in nature then we can't do that

fact is, homosexuality, bisexuality, and sexuality, and transgenderism have all be factors that the people animals have lived with for millenia, and it's only since the inception of christianity when people started to have a problem with it

all one really needs to do to verify this is to look throughout the artifacts of history and there's ample evidence

so like i said before, what's the point of arguing apples to oranges?

[scubaman]

"so like i said before, what's the point of arguing apples to oranges?"

Soloman, I read your posts all of the time, and you have a lot of great information which I appreciate! However, the person who started this string is asking a question which she I am sure wanted to share and clear things up in her mind. There has been some good reads here, give your point of view and please leave it at that. I am not being arugmentive just give a person a break! :2cents:

[Solomon]

"so like i said before, what's the point of arguing apples to oranges?"

Soloman, I read your posts all of the time, and you have a lot of great information which I appreciate! However, the person who started this string is asking a question which she I am sure wanted to share and clear things up in her mind. There has been some good reads here, give your point of view and please leave it at that. I am not being arugmentive just give a person a break! :2cents:

nuts... 'scuse me i thought i was giving my point of view an leaving it at that...

didn't realize i'm not allowed to express my point of view clearly to see if it indeed holds up to scrutiny or if i need to adjust how i'm seeing things, which i quite often do.... after i'm proven to be seeing things cockeyed

also didn't realize that only the thread starters are allowed to learn from going through this process

[Enoll]

Some people have told me that same sex relationships are against nature, to wich I say no. It's a differance to other animals. You can't pick one trait of a species and then, if no other displays the same, call it unnatural.
The same that are quick to call certain sexual adventures unnatural are the same who watch movies, drink soft drinks (pop) and seek pleasure through things that drug the mind.
Nowhere else in the animal kingdom does this happen, so is it unnatural?
No matter what we think we are, still with all our technologies, we're still just crude creatures trying to seperate ourselves from other flesh and blood creatures.

As in my other rants, I've lost my train of thought. :(
I'm sure I was on to something, possibly.

[skipper576]

I am new here and hope I am not in the wrong post. I have always been very curious about being with another guy. I never felt it was aginst nature--just my religion taught it was wrong. Sexual attraction can come in many different forms we all experience it differently. I love to see a female sexily dressed but on the other hand I really enjoy a guy in tight slacks or shorts--I get erotic feelings from both sights and think of many sexual aspects of both. For me if it feels good do it is the motto.

[FerociousFeline]

How do you argue with the idea that bi and homosexuality is not how its suposed to be, its against nature.

As far as I have been aware for most of my life, the point to sexual attraction is to reproduce but obviously in same sex relationships thats just not possible. So how do you argue against that because although I am bi myself I can see where they are coming from with this argument.

Plz help me make sense of this, cheers!


I posted under another thread, Nature vs. Nurture by LoveLion which is also my answer to this thread.

^..^~

FF

[flexuality]

How do you argue with the idea that bi and homosexuality is not how its suposed to be, its against nature.

As far as I have been aware for most of my life, the point to sexual attraction is to reproduce but obviously in same sex relationships thats just not possible. So how do you argue against that because although I am bi myself I can see where they are coming from with this argument.

Plz help me make sense of this, cheers!

Perhaps reproduction is not the only point of sexual attraction.

[softfruit]

As the comedian Jeremy Hardy has it on the "homosexuality isn't natural" position: wasps and stinging nettles are natural, wheelchairs and kidney dialysis machines aren't, what's so great about taking your lead from what's natural!

(though, as others point out, there are something like 100 species in which we now have enough evidence of same-sex behaviour - just an alternative tack some people may prefer)

[tom_uk]

[QUOTE=DuskTillDawn]How do you argue with the idea that bi and homosexuality is not how its suposed to be, its against nature.
QUOTE]

why argue? -

:-)

Tom_uk