Question about closeted bi-men...

[Kittengirl]

Hello! I hope to gain some insight from your experiences to a problem I am having.

About two months ago, an old friend of mine (he's gay) and I (straight woman), decided to get a little wild and have sex with a bi-guy. Turns out this bi guy and I had MAD chemistry. Most of the sexual encounter was with he and I (though don't get me wrong - he certainly bottomed and enjoyed blowing my friend...).

Well, afterwards, we saw each other again. Had a very legitimate date. Found out we had a TON in common. Religion, politics, family background, education, fitness, etc. Basically, all the core values.

Well, then things immediately fell apart and he stopped calling me. I asked him last weekend why he didn't want to date me. And he said he knew from the get-go that I was NOT the type of woman he wants to seriously date.

OK, so here's some background on him. COMPLETELY closeted guy. He's a cop, 6'2", 250, 11% body fat, VERY attractive, and living this very "manly" life. NO ONE has ever known about him being bi besides the men he has tricked with. He certainly has NEVER shared this with a gf before. Before we were going to meet the first time for the 3way, we toyed with just meeting alone and having a real date. Then he said he didn't know if he could go through with meeting me, as he didn't think he could look me in the eye, as I know his "secret". And after the three way, when he didn't call me as he said he would, when I finally contacted him, he said he hadn't called because he felt ashamed and embarrassed.

So, I'm sitting here thinking I am the fucking holy grail, you know? We have a TON in common, both want a serious relationship leading to marriage/kids, obviously have MAD sexual chemistry and passion for each other, and wouldn't you know - I am SO open-minded that I not only accept his bisexuality, but will enable his encounters!

I guess my question is this. Since he is SO closeted, has he decided to dismiss me because he flat out is NOT comfortable enough with his own sexuality let alone have his woman in on it? Is this all because he would prefer to live a lie and date/marry a woman who has no clue, while he slips out every two months or so to trick with a gay man? If it matters, I am 41, and he is 34. I would've thought this would have been the ideal situation for him - he could have a woman who is a lady in the streets, and a freak in the sheets.

Opinions? Comments? I would really love to hear from bi-men that have gone through the closeted phase, and would love some insight into this mentality. It is foreign to me, so in advance, I appreciate your thoughts!

[spartca]

Yeah personally I've given up trying to read minds... if I were you I would try and get some closure with friends or a therapist and move on.

Trust me, there are plenty of other available bi men in the sea looking for just what you have to offer. As a proof of concept, just post an ad in craigslist and see for yourself.

[Kittengirl]

Yeah personally I've given up trying to read minds... if I were you I would try and get some closure with friends or a therapist and move on.

Trust me, there are plenty of other available bi men in the sea looking for just what you have to offer. As a proof of concept, just post an ad in craigslist and see for yourself.

Well, thanks, but none of my friends are bi, and I am here trying to get some insight from a bi male who has been there, done that, kind of thing. Merely trying to tap the mentality.

And I am not out seeking bi-men. I happened to have fallen for him, and his bisexuality is just an incidental aspect of who he is.

[entropy]

Although I don't agree with him leading you on like that by going on a legitimate date with you, to then not call you even when it goes really well... I can understand where he's going from. I'm not out yet, but i've let all my girflriends know about my sexuality. I let them know though after at least a month, when I knew I could trust them with it..

I think a lot of what he does has to do with him hiding to himself who he is. Out of sight, out of mind really.. and if he has a girlfriend that knows than it's not really out-of-sight anymore.

He might need to either be reassured that you're understanding of how he's maintained his own personal security by keeping his sexuality inside of a loop that he feels secure with, or maybe he just has to deal with this you and his fears in his own way...

Sorry you had great experiences, and still got the shaft though...

Best of luck.

[Kittengirl]

Thanks. I REALLY appreciate your thoughts. You pretty much confirmed what I suspected. Wouldn't we hate to see someone very OK with what we loathe within ourselves? Isn't that where the whole gay-bashing thing comes from?

Yes, tis a solid pity. Some friends tell me to move on, and others think that with a few more failed 3-4 month relationships of his, that he will realize what he had and come around. That men in general are slower to understand things. I dunno, sometimes I think he will never accept himself, and has rationalized his bi needs as something that is NOT cheating, and I think he hates himself afterwards. After our 3way, he was like, I'm good now for the better part of a year (yeah, right...).

He did tell me that after the 3way that he felt there were NO secrets left between us since I knew his BIGGEST secret. Its like it was too much vulnerability...

[Dr.StrangeLove]

Thats not fun, its so sucky to be into someone who, for whatever reason, doesn't want a relationship.

Its hard to say whats up with this guy, it sounds like he probably does have issues with his sexuality, even though the scenario you're describing seems perfect to you, it may be threatening to him because he would have to acknowledge his sexuality on a more real level...I don't have any first person experience with the gay scene, but my impression is that its really easy to have impersonal, detached sex with a guy on the down low, and never really acknowledge how much you like or need it. I looked at gay porn for years before I was able to truely acknowledge my sexuality to myself...It was and is really obvious how queer I am, but as long as I could keep it private I never really had to acknowledge it. I think this can extend to sex, particularly between men. He could feel threatened, unwilling to acknowledge his sexuality even to one other person, because that would make his sexuality more real.

On the other hand, I think men can be scared away by the idea of a committed relationship, which is what it sounds like you are looking for. It would be wise to be careful how you raise this issue, and how early if you don't want to scare him off...its true that a lot of guys are scared of commitment.

Anyway, good luck...I have my own issue right now with a young guy I have a big crush on...I havn't told him, I think we both have the hots for each other, but he identifies as straight, and I'm scared to tell him how I feel...Yeah, sometimes it really sucks to like someone.

[spartca]

Well, thanks, but none of my friends are bi, and I am here trying to get some insight from a bi male who has been there, done that, kind of thing. Merely trying to tap the mentality.

And I am not out seeking bi-men. I happened to have fallen for him, and his bisexuality is just an incidental aspect of who he is.

OK well um, in that case, everyone's different. Including bi folks. I don't really date closeted folks, can't hang with it. I'm out. I don't really sleep with bi men who are cheating on their husbands or wives either, it's just bad karma.

So all in all I'd say you were much better off without him, and you'll be an even better place when you can forget about trying to get inside the head of a closeted person. It's just all dark and scary in there anyways, lol. That's a job for his therapist ;)

[DiamondDog]

Try to be an understanding friend to him and the issues that he has with his sexuality, and why he's closeted, are things that HE himself has to deal with and there's nothing that anyone can do to help him besides being a supportive friend that's there to talk.

Honestly, your friend sounds REALLY sexy, to me anyway and I'd break my rule about no closeted men (heh sorry I have a cop fetish) but again these are issues that he himself is going to have to learn how to deal with and nobody but himself is going to make things better or have him come out or be happy about himself.

Don't force him to do anything as well you can't really force someone to do something that they don't want to do (I'm proof of this since I'm rather stubborn). Does he know how you happen to feel about him and his sexuality and how it's not a big deal and how you like it and you'd be fine with it, and MMF 3 ways and him having sex with men?

[Kittengirl]

Totally great advice, thanks. Unfortunately, we are no longer talking! :(

And you're right - he is WAY hot, no joke.

He knows his bisexuality was not a big deal to me, but no, we never discussed how I would be fine if he tricked on the side, or if we had men in our bed that we shared. He cut me off before we ever got to that point of discussing how it would be, since he already decided I was out. :( And honestly, it would have been great for me, as that way I could still screw other guys and it wouldn't be like I was cheating.

Think I should contact him again in a few months? He told me on SAT that he just started dating someone and it was VERY VERY new, and may or may not be true...

[spartca]

Yeah um... and this has nothing to do with him being bisexual...

From a transactional analysis perspective. it seems like he's playing the "come here, go away" game with you. The only move you have in this game is to walk away, other than staying enmeshed in this confused boundaries game. If you stay, he gets to keep playing. If you go, then he doesn't have to deal with any of the shit he clearly doesn't want to deal with, and he can blame it all on you.

From a behavioral perspective, he's giving you intermittent reinforcement. Translation: he's playing hard to get. The intermittent supply is causing your predictable reaction to heighten demand. Cut that out! LOL.

Run, don't walk, far far away - that's my advice to you!

P.S. Personally I don't find being jerked around sexy...

[Kittengirl]

Um, thanks, but Im not sure you read my post. He has not played any come here now go away games. We had a three way, then one date, and he never called me again. A month later we connected and I asked him why he didnt want to date me. That was all. So, Im not sure where you are getting all this other stuff from, really. :)

[spartca]

Um, thanks, but Im not sure you read my post. He has not played any come here now go away games. We had a three way, then one date, and he never called me again. A month later we connected and I asked him why he didnt want to date me. That was all. So, Im not sure where you are getting all this other stuff from, really. :)

Well this is what gave me that idea:


He told me on SAT that he just started dating someone and it was VERY VERY new, and may or may not be true...

Seems like the very intermittent reinforcement is working well enough for you to seek this forum out and post the whole story here. If you were over him, we would have never heard from you. This recent communication of Saturday seems to have piqued your interest in him.

[Kittengirl]

LOL. OK, I think you are being combative as I think you always need to be right. YES, I wrote here for ADVICE. I think it was clear from the initial posting that I like him very much. I was merely asking for INSIGHT into his mentality, which, since you have said you do not deal with closeted people, is something you cannot offer. So, no need to continue to point out the obvious here. I am sure there are others on the forum that can use your sage advice. :) Toodles...

[TaylorMade]

I got the impression that because you accepted his sexuality, thus forcing him to reassess himself and who he is, it's kinda threatening his self image.

It's one thing to "have a bi girlfriend" it's another to be in a "bi couple". Seems he hasn't accepted himself as is, so he is having problems accepting you because...you reflect maybe where he in his soul WANTS to be but is TOO SCARED to go.

*Taylor*

[my-00-stang]

he definatly is in the closet like myself....i am also a cop probably not as good looking as him but i think he is freaked out by the thought of being in a long term relationship and you knowing he is bi. to me i would love that situation and would welcome you with open arms.......but he has not admitted to himself yet that he is bi and until he admits to himself he is bi he will never be comfortable with you knowing................and if and when you talk to him again please don't refer to his adventures as tricks because that is what us cops use with prostitutes that we arrest. so it may not be good for you to use that term with him. keep your chin up and if you do talk to him just try reassuring him you are very okay with it. :2cents:

[tell_no_one99]

Hello! I hope to gain some insight from your experiences to a problem I am having.

About two months ago, an old friend of mine (he's gay) and I (straight woman), decided to get a little wild and have sex with a bi-guy. Turns out this bi guy and I had MAD chemistry. Most of the sexual encounter was with he and I (though don't get me wrong - he certainly bottomed and enjoyed blowing my friend...).

!


I'm sorry But I can't get past your paragraph thats just simply amazing

Where the hell can I find people like that

[anne27]

He's obviously not comfortable with his sexuality. He may feel like he opened up too much of himself to you and now he's on full retreat mode. I once had a man I met after knowing him online for about a year tell me "I'm uncomfortable. You know me *too* well. You know about all of my bad stuff."

His loss, hon. Until he comes to terms with who he is, there's nothing anyone else can do to help him. :2cents:

[Something Else]

After re-reading your first post again, the fact that he's COMPLETELY closeted and NO ONE knows that he shares these desires explains a great deal of the interaction the two of you have experienced, thus far.

The fact that you are comfortable with HIS sexuality more than he is of his OWN, is probably messing with his head.

Learning to accept oneself in all aspects is an INDIVIDUAL process, and he's probably never HAD TO *confront* them head on--until dealing with you, because you *know* the extent of his desires.

He probably has rationalized the past sexual encounters in some fashion or another. However, when he's dealing with you, as has been noted often here, he is reminded that he is INDEED Bi and you are a first-hand witness to it.

Ultimately, until he's ready to accept himself and be comfortable with his desires for both and not be overwhelmed by that; his behavior won't suddenly change.

The impetus for that change could be you, it's possible. But it will be difficult to walk him thru if he's not desirous to do so on his own.

And the other aspect of *relationship/commitment* could be a tremendous issue with him. Some guys (Bi, Gay & Straight) are just not ready to commit. And the mere *suggestion* of it scares them, lol.

I don't envy your situation; I do my best to not play detective (get it cop/detective :bigrin: ) with any relationships. If you can keep from getting a crush on him, just keep in touch and take things easy with him. Though that is much easier said than done.

good luck ;)

[Kittengirl]

Wow - you all have offered some TREMENDOUS insight. THANK YOU. You basically confirmed what I suspected all along. I suppose it's not easy to NOT personalize rejection, and yes, considering the unusual parameters of the situation, although it would have seemed ideal to me, to him, I do understand it is less than desirable.

I am moving on from it, as I do acknowledge that until he accepts himself and his sexuality, he has no interest in being with me (besides perhaps wanting another 3-way, and no thanks on that).

A few personal comments:

Taylormade - perfectly articulated analysis, thanks.

Stang - I don't refer to his adventures as tricks to HIM, but noted, thank you. I am sure you can relate to the "macho" image that cops take on, and can understand moreso why he feels threatened by this. I am sure he thinks I view him as less of a man since I have seen him in the ultimate submissive act. SO not true. Oddly, I found him to be MORE of a man, as he showed me true vulernability that often takes months of dating to see.

Tell No One - LOL - I happen to be a tremendously non-judgementally open-minded person... :)

Anne - yes, you are right. I am sure it was way too revealing, and of a dark place within him that he prefers to keep hidden. *sorry* the guy dismissed you after a year of chatting. Isn't this what we call an intimacy issue on his part?

Something Else - yes, I am sure I am a constant mirror of what he wishes wasn't so within him. He claims he is on a hunt for someone marriage material, which I akin to a gay man going into the priesthood, since he thinks it will remove all temptation. He very well may decide to compartmentalize his sexuality for his entire life. I think for his own health that would be wrong, but I can not change that for him. I think we all know then a few years from now he will kick himself for dismissing the most ideal situation of his life... :)

THANKS, you guys, for all your time and compassion. It really helps me to understand him, and thus move on. :)

Bright blessings, all! :)

[onewhocares]

Well, Kitten, I think thay he is a fool for missing out on what so many Bi Men would love to have. A women who share so many common goals, values, dreams and a fantastic LOVER. The bonus is being a woman who not only accepts that he is bi, but celebrates it. I know, I happen to be a woman like you and hear far to often from the men on this site, that they long to find women like us. We are rare diamonds I was told.

As far as he is concerned, I do think that he is uneasy in his own skin....although from what you said there is NO room for anything under that taut body. Perhaps, when he is able to come to terms with his inner self, then he may return. But you sound like too good of a woman to sit by and wait. There are LOTS of Bi Men in Massachusetts who will line up to meet you I am sure.

Belle

[mindfinding]

Kittengirl,

You could have it all, but if his radar went off then he won't be "that into you". Not to sound cold hun, but you gotta know that you can have everything in common with somebody and not want to be their mate. I know personally, I'm not attracted to women with the same mannerisms as my (sometimes crazy) ex girlfriends. The little things will tip me off to memories and I turn them away (course that changed now as I am married.).

I'm not saying your not beautiful, and I'm not saying your not worth it. But you need to know that men, like women, make no freakin sense some days. We all play by our own set of rules and dance to the beat of our own drummer.

PS, Just a back thought, if he is a cop, and the other lads on the force found out he was bi....they would label him gay, maybe even get him fired.

[Kittengirl]

LOL - yes, I suppose he was merely NOT INTO ME, lol, but you're greatly simplifying a much more complex issue. I know when there is chemistry and when there is not. I am also experienced to know if a guy is "just not into me", or if there are other issues at hand. Thanks for writing... :)



Kittengirl,

You could have it all, but if his radar went off then he won't be "that into you". Not to sound cold hun, but you gotta know that you can have everything in common with somebody and not want to be their mate. I know personally, I'm not attracted to women with the same mannerisms as my (sometimes crazy) ex girlfriends. The little things will tip me off to memories and I turn them away (course that changed now as I am married.).

I'm not saying your not beautiful, and I'm not saying your not worth it. But you need to know that men, like women, make no freakin sense some days. We all play by our own set of rules and dance to the beat of our own drummer.

PS, Just a back thought, if he is a cop, and the other lads on the force found out he was bi....they would label him gay, maybe even get him fired.

[mindfinding]

I suppose I did simplify something more complex. Sorry bout that. I know how it is to be in the middle of a tornado and have someone tell me it merely a gust.

I hope I didn't come off as insensitive.

Cheers

[Kittengirl]

No, not at all. That's the beauty of being uninvolved, I suppose - it gives you blunt clarity. :) Still, one would imagine a man who has INTENSE sexual chemistry with a woman and ton in common would not (normally) walk away from that situation. Even if she did twirl her hair around her finger like the ex did... :)

[AstroGlide]

:offtopic:

This is so off topic I ought to be ashamed and it certainly won't add anything to this thread but..........
I genuinely appreciate you staying on this topic you started and your continual monitoring as the thread develops. So many, many times, contributors will start a thread and then walk away from it and just let it float or die as if they had no interest in the posting to begin with.
So for me, thank you for your continuing interest.

My :2cents:

AstroGlide

[Kittengirl]

Well, thanks. But I didn't gratuitously post because I was bored. I sincerely wanted to get some insight from those that either are bi, or have more direct experience with the mentality than I do. I was fortunate to receive some very intelligent and kind comments... :)

[flexuality]

:offtopic:

This is so off topic I ought to be ashamed and it certainly won't add anything to this thread but..........
I genuinely appreciate you staying on this topic you started and your continual monitoring as the thread develops. So many, many times, contributors will start a thread and then walk away from it and just let it float or die as if they had no interest in the posting to begin with.
So for me, thank you for your continuing interest.

My :2cents:

AstroGlide

Sometimes people have limited access to a computer too...or share it or have other things that keep them busy and unable to monitor a thread or whatever. It's not always about losing interest...... :2cents:

[TaylorMade]

A few personal comments:

Taylormade - perfectly articulated analysis, thanks.


You're welcome, Kitten. I really am feeling your pain here. I haven't had anything that maddening happen to me, but I've been close.

Remember, you're in MA, one of the more LBGT-friendly states. There will be bi guys that will want a relationship with a girl who will be part of ALL of their lives, not just parts of it.

*Taylor*

[dans94]

Hi Kittengirl, I haven't read all the responses but all I have to offer is my own experience anyway.

I didn't know I was bi in my early twenty's and was dating a very special girl. We hit it off in most every area and she really opened my eyes to varied sexual experiences. She was the first person to ever play with my ass and finger my prostate while making love. Although I loved the feeling and openness of our sex I was also very stupid and inexperienced and afraid of my feelings. She wouldn't have cared if I was gay, let alone bi. As far as I was concerned though, I was straight!! I felt guilty about the intense pleasure
she was giving me in the alternative sexual precedures. (I used the word procedures because I couldn't think of anything else that appropriately describes her sucking me while thoroughly massaging my prostate.) She was the most wonderfully open person I've ever met. I guess her sophistication scared me though, and upset my ingrained social morals.

I broke up with her giving her some lame excuse because I was incapable of being honest about my feelings. (Probably the best thing I could have done for her) One of the reasons I married my wife is that she was very conservative and religeous. . . the total opposite of my old girlfriend. As it turns out, my choices were made from fear of what/who I really was.

I've rambled on. What I'm trying to say is that you might want to try to open his eyes to the posibilities you offer. Tell him that you don't always have to have alternative sex, if that's the way you feel. He could be afraid of giving in to his sexual urges too much if he's with a free thinking girl like you. Do you know what I mean? He is afraid of enjoying sex too much but every now and then he succumbs to his desire and lets loose. Afterwards, he feels guilty. I'm not saying you could definately help him, or even if it's worth your effort, but he would benefit from it. It's a dangerous road to take, if you do, because he could easily revert to his old self and shun everything you worked on.

Jeez, I hope this wasn't too scatter-brained.

Good luck,
Dan

[Kittengirl]

Wow - that is really some intense insight as someone who has been there, done that. Really let's me in on the mindset. Thanks for sharing your personal story, Dan. :)

[ohbimale]

I am sorry you had a bad outcome after the 3 way and date. I learned at the young age of 12 to stay closeted. I was in swimming class with this cute 12 year old boy. Being that we were both young, dumb and full of it we started experimenting sexually after class. Eventually we were ratted out, seperated never to see each other again. I was sent to psychotherapy and put on prescription drugs. I was so traumatized by the whole experience I closeted my bisexuality from myself. Later in my 20's women I dated could see I am bisexual, but when asked about it I denied it for fear of loosing them. In my late twenties I began to learn to accept myself as a bisexual man. Now I am stuck in a sexless marriage with a woman who is affraid of being alone if we divorce, but does not want to have sex with a man who has been with other men, eventhough we had a great sex life before she read my journal I kept to help me figure out personal issues, mainly my bisexuality. It sounds like your friend is operating in the land fear. If I were single and found a woman accepting of my bisexuality I would date her and see where things went. Your friend could learn a lot from my experiences and those like me. I wish you the best in all you do. And I hope your friend finds the courage to come out of the closet to himself. No one deserves to live as a stranger in their own skin. God bless.

[Kittengirl]

I agree wholeheartedly. I hope he reconciles who he is for his OWN sake, less so for the future of he and I. As a straight woman, it's hard for me to empathize with what it must feel like to not feel good about who you are through no conscious choice or action of your own. I am sorry for your story. :( Certainly an experience like that would leave you full of shame and questions, and would make you hide from yourself. Awful the things that society does to those who aren't straight. :( Bright blessings...

[etncple]

I had an old gf who initiated my first bi experience during a 3sum with another male. She wanted to try 2 men and then asked to watch us together. Much to my suprise(being an ex-jock, football,lacrosse,basketball player with all the the anti gay lockerroom talk) I enjoyed the male/male interaction and realized it was just 2 people enjoying it. I had a cple more experiences thru my 20s. Upon getting married I put it all ideas of bi play behind me and figured it was just an experimental stage. Well, in my 40s all of a sudden the urge to try it came back , with a vengence...lol. I didnt act on them for a long time and did try and talk to my ex about our sex life in general but she was incapable of of talking openly about sex at all, forget bisexuality, as far as she was concerned you were str8 or gay. With my new wife I told her right away about my feelings and it has been great (and no, I didnt get divorced just because of the sex issues with my ex but it certainly did contribute to it) .
I think as we get older, a lot of us do tend to look at things without all the prejudices we were "taught/learned", when we are younger. Unfortuantely, some people retain these fears, prejudices and thoughts even when their desires are saying something different.
It sounds like your friend has a lot of fear of his bi desires and I am sure, since cops in general are as bad as a high school lockerroom as far as sexual joking, prejudices, comments etc are, he has a ton of mixed emotions concerning his bi desires. That you know all his "bad" habits make you a threat, whether he realizes it or not, and he only is seeing the negatives, rather than the possiblility of a someone accepting of, and liking, his bisexuality. The only thing I can think of for you to say to him is that you really enjoyed the 3sum and wish you had a male to share in your life as open to exploring as he is.
Sorry this is so long, I just wish he realized how amazing it is to have a woman who not only accepts a bisexual male but enjoys it with him. Thats my :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:
Good luck






Hi Kittengirl, I haven't read all the responses but all I have to offer is my own experience anyway.

I didn't know I was bi in my early twenty's and was dating a very special girl. We hit it off in most every area and she really opened my eyes to varied sexual experiences. She was the first person to ever play with my ass and finger my prostate while making love. Although I loved the feeling and openness of our sex I was also very stupid and inexperienced and afraid of my feelings. She wouldn't have cared if I was gay, let alone bi. As far as I was concerned though, I was straight!! I felt guilty about the intense pleasure
she was giving me in the alternative sexual precedures. (I used the word procedures because I couldn't think of anything else that appropriately describes her sucking me while thoroughly massaging my prostate.) She was the most wonderfully open person I've ever met. I guess her sophistication scared me though, and upset my ingrained social morals.

I broke up with her giving her some lame excuse because I was incapable of being honest about my feelings. (Probably the best thing I could have done for her) One of the reasons I married my wife is that she was very conservative and religeous. . . the total opposite of my old girlfriend. As it turns out, my choices were made from fear of what/who I really was.

I've rambled on. What I'm trying to say is that you might want to try to open his eyes to the posibilities you offer. Tell him that you don't always have to have alternative sex, if that's the way you feel. He could be afraid of giving in to his sexual urges too much if he's with a free thinking girl like you. Do you know what I mean? He is afraid of enjoying sex too much but every now and then he succumbs to his desire and lets loose. Afterwards, he feels guilty. I'm not saying you could definately help him, or even if it's worth your effort, but he would benefit from it. It's a dangerous road to take, if you do, because he could easily revert to his old self and shun everything you worked on.

Jeez, I hope this wasn't too scatter-brained.

Good luck,
Dan

[FerociousFeline]

I guess my question is this. Since he is SO closeted, has he decided to dismiss me because he flat out is NOT comfortable enough with his own sexuality let alone have his woman in on it? for him - he could have a woman who is a lady in the streets, and a freak in the sheets.



I'd say that is EXACTLY what is going on. A person simply can not genuinely connect with another person until such a point where they can look in the mirror and completely and lovingly accept themselves. Because of the circumstance, you were able to get through a barrier that you normally likely wouldn't have gotten through. It's also likely that because you have unwittingly and unknowingly penetrated this protective barrier of his, that on some level he will be either fearful or resentful of you. Basically you have witnessed/experienced a part of him he is not ready to show to HIMSELF.....much less the world......much much even less a woman he expects to be completely intimate on a soul level with. Funny, because even though he may have already actually DONE THAT.......he may still FEAR it as though he hasn't already done that. (kind of like how you can open the bird cage door to a bird who never gets taken out of the cage, and the bird won't leave.........it can't.) We are all our own prisoners with the secrets that we keep about ourselves ......from ourselves. My advice is to keep contact with him but tone it WAYYYY down, allow him to reachieve his comfort level and allow him to grow into the intimacy that you desire. If he is unwilling to do this, then you are only hurting yourself by trying to continue the connection with him.

I hope that this helps.

FF

[s_shunpike]

Kittengirl,

I just had to put in my own :2cents: worth.

I honestly believe that this is more of an issue than people would like to admit is possible. We all like to think that society can be so open minded. True that most of us here are enlightened and can see that this gentleman should accept himself. Unfortunately society does not.

My brother-in-law I think put it perfectly how most of society feels. Two women together are beautiful and hot, that they can love each other is fantastic. Two men together is gross and can only be about sex.

I think that as long as a large part of society sees two men being together as anything but gross and only about sex, many many men will continue to feel they can't come out of the closet. I think they figure that if it's only supposed to be about sex then that is what they will make it. As soon as you throw someone who is so caring and understanding into the picture, someone like yourself who is willing to allow them to be bisexual - it messes with their "norm" and they can't handle it.

I feel sorry for this guy. Sorry that he cannot or will not come to grips with who he is, not even to someone who so openly cares. I feel sorry for you in being left in this situation feeling confused and unsure what you can do to help him.

Anyway, my :2cents:

Shun

[grant_33]

Kittengirl,

Interesting situation you raise.

I have a few questions about him. How did the 3way with him come about (was it completely random, or was he a friend of your gay friend, etc)? How actively bisexual is he (gay bars and fairly out and about, or just occasional hookups with men from time to time)? Was this the first time he's hooked up with a woman while he's played with a man? And does he play with the same men just once, or does he have semi-relations with the same man?

The reason I ask the first two questions has to do with how closeted he really is. If he's fairly promiscuous and comfortable being in and around gay and bisexual men, then he's probably closeted because of his occupation, rather than because he's not comfortable with his sexuality. If he's not out having a gay old time (sorry, couldn't resist), then he probably is somewhat in denial of his sexuality as well. Let's face it, being a cop is not an easy place to be a gay or bi male. If he were in a more gay/bi friendly line of work, then you would probably be well on your way to being blissfully happy with this guy. Because he's a cop, however, I wouldn't expect him to ever truly come to grip with who he is sexually and take the plunge by coming out. And that probably means that having a relationship with him will be a difficult prospect, at best.

The third and fourth questions have to do more with why he wouldn't feel comfortable around you. It may very well be that you're the first woman that not only has an inkling of his true sexuality but also the first woman who has seen him in action, and he probably finds that to be very intimidating. It would explain why he would be uncomfortable being with you, regardless of the chemistry you obviously have for each other. And if he doesn't play with the same guy twice, he may not be comfortable having a relationship with anyone who knows his secret (so it wouldn't be about you being a woman knowing his secret, but about you being a person who knows his secret, an entirely different thing). He's either incapable of letting a woman who knows about his sexuality get too close to him, or incapable of letting anyone who knows getting close to him. If it's the first, then maybe you have a chance to prove that you're not a threat and can eventually win him over. If it's the latter, then chances are you won't be able to get past his fairly stout defenses and have a chance with him.

Hopefully this wasn't too psycho-babbly and gives you some further things to think about. It sounds like you'd really like for something to work out between the two of you. Good luck.

[LoveBiker]

I want to add a little to the suspense and I am on the "poor" guys side.

The reason for this is simple if you know about it.
The threshold is raised for him becaus of his environment. The cops have this "special" environment build around them where this is a NONO. I can say this because I have been there.

Realize that the training brings you a "power" that is overwhelming and emphasized by the the training and later into your daily life. It places you "above" the normal. ( OF COURSE you are NOT ) You need to learn that this is not the real world from the experiences in your daily job. Where do you really fit in and what is the EXPECTATION. Because of the expectation the core unit has he will feel OUT of the ordinary.

Add this to his own feelings and suddenly it's a mountain that is NOT easy to overcome. All the feelings need to be "hidden" at the moment you get at work. The reason is simple. YOU ARE OUT if it shows.

So you build in safety. That is what he is showing the moment he gets OUT of his sexual arousal. He will fall back to that every time. Thats his training. I trained like that the same way because its the PRIMAL thing to do. SURVIVAL.

I hope I made a point here. I stepped out of the force but I was only 1% of the 100 that does after 20 years wearing a "metal harness" every day.

[Kittengirl]

Hi, there. To answer your questions:

1 - we met through Craigslist. He had posted looking for a hookup with a guy, and I contacted him.

2 - He is COMPLETELY and TOTALLY closeted. No one has ever known about his bisexuality, besides the men he has fucked, and he has most definitely never shared this with a girlfriend. He told me he does this about twice a year (I suspect it is more often, however). So no, no gay bars, and no gay friends.

3 - Yes, it was the FIRST time he ever played with a man and a woman at the same time.

4 - he had random hookups and that's it. Uses an assumed name, tells no personal information, and never sees the guy again.

Your insight is tremendous. I would love for something to materialize with him, because separate from his sexuality, he is everything I look for in a guy. So yes, I am very attracted to him on a multitude of levels, and definitely saw the relationship as holding a lot of promise.

Since he and I are no longer communicating, I am not sure what is my next best thing to proceed. I sent him an email after we spoke over the weekend and told him I suspected his dismissal of me has more to do with his reluctance to share his secret with a woman, than my unworth as a partner. I did add that his bisexuality was no more consequential to me than if he had blue or brown eyes. So, considering you seem to really "get" this, and his mentality as well, how would you advise me to proceed?




Kittengirl,

Interesting situation you raise.

I have a few questions about him. How did the 3way with him come about (was it completely random, or was he a friend of your gay friend, etc)? How actively bisexual is he (gay bars and fairly out and about, or just occasional hookups with men from time to time)? Was this the first time he's hooked up with a woman while he's played with a man? And does he play with the same men just once, or does he have semi-relations with the same man?

The reason I ask the first two questions has to do with how closeted he really is. If he's fairly promiscuous and comfortable being in and around gay and bisexual men, then he's probably closeted because of his occupation, rather than because he's not comfortable with his sexuality. If he's not out having a gay old time (sorry, couldn't resist), then he probably is somewhat in denial of his sexuality as well. Let's face it, being a cop is not an easy place to be a gay or bi male. If he were in a more gay/bi friendly line of work, then you would probably be well on your way to being blissfully happy with this guy. Because he's a cop, however, I wouldn't expect him to ever truly come to grip with who he is sexually and take the plunge by coming out. And that probably means that having a relationship with him will be a difficult prospect, at best.

The third and fourth questions have to do more with why he wouldn't feel comfortable around you. It may very well be that you're the first woman that not only has an inkling of his true sexuality but also the first woman who has seen him in action, and he probably finds that to be very intimidating. It would explain why he would be uncomfortable being with you, regardless of the chemistry you obviously have for each other. And if he doesn't play with the same guy twice, he may not be comfortable having a relationship with anyone who knows his secret (so it wouldn't be about you being a woman knowing his secret, but about you being a person who knows his secret, an entirely different thing). He's either incapable of letting a woman who knows about his sexuality get too close to him, or incapable of letting anyone who knows getting close to him. If it's the first, then maybe you have a chance to prove that you're not a threat and can eventually win him over. If it's the latter, then chances are you won't be able to get past his fairly stout defenses and have a chance with him.

Hopefully this wasn't too psycho-babbly and gives you some further things to think about. It sounds like you'd really like for something to work out between the two of you. Good luck.

[Kittengirl]

Hmmm, yes I do get that. I know that he is trained to hide his feelings, to not show emotion or react. BTW, he is NOT a patrolman, he works a special unit. Let's say it's one that makes him particularly more stealthy... And I do get that he feels the need to maintain that alpha persona at all times.

I think since I cracked into his private world so quickly (he mentioned to me afterwards that he felt like there were NO secrets now between us, since I had discovered the biggest and deepest), that he is feeling overly exposed. He must feel that he never had a chance to "be the man" in front of me, since I saw him bottom for another man. This is so important to him, moreso because he feels the need to compensate for his what he perceives to be his Achilles Heel.

Thank you for your viewpoint, as one who has been there. :)




I want to add a little to the suspense and I am on the "poor" guys side.

The reason for this is simple if you know about it.
The threshold is raised for him becaus of his environment. The cops have this "special" environment build around them where this is a NONO. I can say this because I have been there.

Realize that the training brings you a "power" that is overwhelming and emphasized by the the training and later into your daily life. It places you "above" the normal. ( OF COURSE you are NOT ) You need to learn that this is not the real world from the experiences in your daily job. Where do you really fit in and what is the EXPECTATION. Because of the expectation the core unit has he will feel OUT of the ordinary.

Add this to his own feelings and suddenly it's a mountain that is NOT easy to overcome. All the feelings need to be "hidden" at the moment you get at work. The reason is simple. YOU ARE OUT if it shows.

So you build in safety. That is what he is showing the moment he gets OUT of his sexual arousal. He will fall back to that every time. Thats his training. I trained like that the same way because its the PRIMAL thing to do. SURVIVAL.

I hope I made a point here. I stepped out of the force but I was only 1% of the 100 that does after 20 years wearing a "metal harness" every day.

[LoveBiker]

OK him being in a special unit makes it more difficult to penetrate.

So how can you get to him? To turn this around.! :cool:

You have to get part of the team or insider.

Primal scream for the MEN.
"I need to be able to TRUST EVERY ONE around me when I HUNT."

[Kittengirl]

LOL. Yes, I get that, too. For some reason that he couldn't even explain, he did tell me more truth about himself up front than he normally would (real name, occupation). He knows I could very easily out him and ruin his world. Even after out last convo, where he knew he had hurt me, he said he hoped I wouldn't do anything to that effect. I have told him numerous times that I would never out him, and I think he believes that, as he did acknowledge I've been wonderful about being so discreet. Beyond that, not sure what else I can do to earn his trust...

[LoveBiker]

He is really asking for you to TEAM with him. He "cannot" ask this right NOW.

If you "LISTEN" to his feelings...

then he is saying:
1. I give you all, I am opening up here. DO NOT hurt my trust.
2. BE part of me now, BUT TEAM up. Do not question me in this. BE there.
3. NEVER ever expose ANYTHING that happened with the two of you ( THIS is already a danger then YOU DO put it out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! his BIG fear)
4. do not TELL him, ACT upon ALWAYS
5. The US is NOT tolerant ( even though they say) in sexual diversities. KEEP that in mind. Be really really silent on this.

[Kittengirl]

Hmmm...good advice, Biker. Pity that he and I are no longer talking, though... :( Maybe in a few months I can try to reach him again?

[bigguy69]

Hi Kitten, I believe the problem may lie with his chosen profession, more than with you. If he is a cop, the last thing he would want,(in his own mind), for his friends at the Department to know, is that he is Bi. A police Officer is still viewed as a manly man kind of profession, and he may not want to let anyone who knows his sexual preferences, outside of the bedroom, get too close to him. He might be afraid that you may let something "slip" sometime,which he may view, as a threat to his position at the Department. You have to remember that various segments of Society, view Bisexuality and Homosexuality as abberent behavior, especially in the Law enforcement, and Military fields, even though they are not supposed to. I am not condoning his actions by any means, just trying to shed some light on a possible reason for his behavior. Hope this helps, Charles

[grant_33]

Kittengirl,

This will be tricky and may require some detective work.

First, I would not refer to his bisexuality again. It is obviously something he doesn't want to be reminded of (just seeing or hearing from you reminds him, which doesn't help your cause), so you need to let things die a little (or maybe a lot) to lessen the impact you have on him.

Second, I would write one more e-mail, telling him essentially that you think there is something there, but since he seems to not be comfortable with it, you will respect his wishes and not bother him anymore. Then add the all-important "I'm not going anywhere and if you're ever interested in talking or getting together, then I'll be here." By doing this, you're both taking the high road and keeping the door open if he's ever interesting in staying in touch.

Then you wait.

And become a detective.

One thing that almost all cops have is a place where they drink. Usually a bar, preferably a dive, where they get together and unload after a hard day's work without having a lot of people around. See if you can find out where that would be for him and his co-workers. If the place is an out-of-the-way hole in the wall where no self-respecting woman would show up, then you may be out of luck. If it's fairly respectable, or it at least looks like a place where you wouldn't be totally out of place, then sometime over the summer start going there with some co-workers of your own (a mix of guys and girls would be best, one or two at a time, and whatever you do, don't go there with the gay friend that you shared the 3way with; cops don't like touristy places as a general rule, which is why you want to keep the numbers down to just a few at a time). Eventually, you'll be a regular, and you may run into him there. Let him make the first move (it may take several times before he says anything to you; if he doesn't show up anymore or doesn't make any move, then you may also be out of luck). And then go from there.

It's going to require some patience and a fair amount of alcohol, but with any luck, you may be able to pull it off.

[BreeIsMe]

I'm sorry to hear that he doesn't share your enthusiasm.

However, there is a good side (if there ever is one):

He didn't lead you on for some time and at least he was "honest" about his ability to have a relationship..

Personally, the problems are all his. He probably chose being a "cop" as a way to declare to the world that he is "a man" because he knew of his desires to be with another man. This is fairly common. He appears to have been fighting his true nature and is not likely to admit it in the future either. Even though he sounds like a perfect fit for you, it doesn't sound like he is going to allow that to happen. BUT, things could always change in the future, it is just that I would not count on it nor try to "help" him through it...

He needs to do this on his own, if it will ever happen..

Good luck and keep looking for your guy!

Bree

[glantern954]

Ask him.

[Seeker72]

Sounds like he is creating a platform of protection.

If he marries a woman that knows he is Bi and one day the shit hits the fan the old threat of "I'm going to tell everyone you suck cock and your reputation will be shot" just might be played.

He marries a woman that knows nothing then he's safe.... unless he gets caught mind you, but thats a different topic all together.

[Kittengirl]

Hi, Bree. Yes, I agree with his choice of profession. He is well-educated man from professional parents and does not come from a line of cops. Certainly he does not fit the typical demographic to begin with. I akin it to a gay man going into the priesthood who thinks it will remove temptation or label his as "safe". For this guy, yes, the cop life has such a masculine mystique - it's a perfect beard. Of course, as previously mentioned, he is probably the most alpha looking man I have ever met - in size, looks, demeanor. He could be a hair dresser and still look like "the man". But try telling him that.

Yes, I will be, and am, moving on from him. I do acknowledge that IF he comes around to accept himself, it won't happen any time in the next few weeks, or really months, and I am not waiting around to see how his life falls out.

Thanks for your gentle comments... :)





Personally, the problems are all his. He probably chose being a "cop" as a way to declare to the world that he is "a man" because he knew of his desires to be with another man. This is fairly common. He appears to have been fighting his true nature and is not likely to admit it in the future either. Even though he sounds like a perfect fit for you, it doesn't sound like he is going to allow that to happen. BUT, things could always change in the future, it is just that I would not count on it nor try to "help" him through it...

He needs to do this on his own, if it will ever happen..

Good luck and keep looking for your guy!

Bree

[Bicuriousity]

My perspective is similar to a few that have posted. His career may be the main issue here. He is so afraid of being outed there, that he is willing to lose an awesome girl and some great experiences.

I too worry the most about being outed at my job. I'm comfortable anywhere else and would prefer to have a group of friends that did know about me. They'd have to be brand new ones, not the old ones tied to my family network and or work friends.

In fact, I'd just prefer my coworkers didn't know anything about my sexuality, even the hetero side. We have gotten way too open about that at work, it leads to some fun flirting with the females, but I don't necessarily want them to know about everything I do and occasionally with a few drinks in me, I've let some things slip to coworkers when out after work.

I also echo the fact that I'd love a girl that was open to this. I did briefly go out with a wonderful girl from here, but distance was an issue of course.

To have a chance at getting him back, I'd say you should contact him alot, but don't bring up the bisexuality. Just try to arrange another date or meeting with him.

It is still really hard to find women that are open minded about this. He knows this as well as anyone. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if you hear from him again sometime down the road.

In the meantime meet other guys!

[Long Duck Dong]

mmm I get some interesting feelings off of this guy

hes not closeted in the way that we see closeted.....
hes not hiding his sexuality.... hes seeing it as its nobodies business unless he chooses to share it, which he doesn't generally.....we are seeing him as hiding his sexuality..... there is a difference between being closeted and not talking the world what they don't need to know

his sexuality would become a stumbling block for him, if it was known.... not cos of the way people view it, but cos of the reactions and how it would impede his ability to lead his life and do his work....

he is a structured person.... he likes structure and the ability to close doors as he needs to.... its not a protection issue... but a personality trait....
he has a fling, its done and over, he moves on, back to his * normal * life....
he prefers that his bisexuality remains a minor aspect of him and not a major aspect of him... as sex is not a big part of his life....

he got this job cos he is so isolated from outside interference.... he remains level headed and undistracted in the line of work....his sexuality wouldn't stop him doing his job.... the way people work with him, would endanger him and others if they were not able to separate their feelings about bisexuals, from their need to work totally unfocused and undistracted
hence he is not closeted for fear of losing his job, he is more concerned about being unable to do his job fully cos people would be focusing on his sexuality and their inability to deal with it

he is a controlled personality type....his life is controlled and structured... no room for * boat rocking *.....each thing has its place, and each place has its area....he is also a isolated personality type.... he removes himself from situations of close emotional contact....short type * cut and dried * contact suits him better than a close emotional long term relationship, it clouds his judgment and causes internal turmoil which is something that he is not able to reconcile.... hence the * fuck and run * pattern of behievour with his gay flings

he has relationship issues....he struggles with his ability to relax into a relationship.... he likes to be in control of himself and his thoughts and emotions, some relationships can interfere with that...and affect him at work and in the public eye....

he accepts who he is, hes not able to factor it into his life without it creating issues, so he isolates it....most issues with our sexuality are caused by the people around us....so he separates it by seeing his sexual encounters as gay flings... that way he is able to * box them up and put them in a dark secluded corner * where they don't create any issues

he is a analytical minded person, he breaks things down into numbers, words, figures, patterns.... hence true communication is not honest and open but factored to the nearest possible aspect of the truth and carefully structured
rather than say * I am bisexual and enjoy having gay sex with men *... he will say something like..* i have sex, and i have sex with women, I am bisexual *
... the words become spoken, the emotion doesn't. and it makes it easier to * shut the door * on the chat after he has finished speaking
the same thing is happening to the fact that he spoke to you about his bisexuality.... he wants to shut the door on the chat.... but you knowing about it, is like you having a foot in the door that he is trying to shut... its a type of loose end for him ..... he dislikes loose ends.....