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diamond_tether
Apr 17, 2007, 1:04 PM
I’ve been on the site long enough and have seen enough posts that I (the male half of the couple) am perfectly comfortable saying what I’m about to say. I don’t want to change any one’s opinion, I’m not trying to get anyone to take a side – I, like everyone else, have made some observations and just want to be heard. Below I make some generalizations, but they’re not meant to be all encompassing, they’re meant to be illustrative of concepts in my head. Some will probably see them as an attack, but that’s on them and it’s okay because sometimes that’s all people are gonna see.

I want to say something in response to several threads (and more to a general trend in the male-bi world) I’ve seen regarding who does what, why and what kind of bisexual it makes them as a result. All the male posturing about bisexuality out there is driving me kind of nuts. If someone says anything on one side or the other of an issue – first it’s attacked (passive aggressively and/or openly aggressively) and then it’s followed by the floofy, happy comments about how ‘everyone’s different and needs to be respected for their differences’ yadda yadda yadda. It’s garbage that we’re all guilty of slinging. If we did respect other people’s feelings and preferences these kinds of forums probably wouldn’t work they way they do. They educate by exposing their members to a very wide range of ideas/personalities. In a perfect world that exposure would educate us or enlighten us to other perspectives, we’d take a step back and realize we feel differently than others and learn to work with that. Unfortunately humans just aren’t that benevolent. What happens in the real world is that people find where they stand in relation to everyone else and have stake out their claim (sometimes with a shotgun in hand) in response. Some stuff they can accept in other people and other stuff they can’t, but they’ll fight for what they feel and are happy to try and coat their dislike in a gossamer film of ‘acceptance’ rhetoric and ideology.

We’re really not supposed to like everyone – I don’t think any creature can, but people try to act from a mythical place where everyone is either kind of the same (if not, they should be/can possibly be) or where we’re all magically understanding and honestly accepting of everyone else. The rhetoric says one thing, but we all know what other people are really saying to us sometimes. Thankfully, majority can’t rule because we’re too small and fractured (not in a bad way) of a group for a majority to really appear. We’re not here to be a hippy-dippy (no offense to real hippies, by the way) group of friends who all share the same tastes, interests, ideology, etc (if ANYONE can bring me an internal consensus of bisexuality – I’d love to see it). We’re here to be more like a family – as in you’ve got siblings and cousins who drive you crazy, intentionally provoke you and piss you off (sometimes for no reason other than the simple fact that they can). They’re people you don’t have to like or pretend to like/understand – but that you have to be okay with and gracefully accept in the end no matter what because we’re all ‘technically’ on the same side. You don’t have to like your teammates or your family, you can even shoot them in the back sometimes, you’re just not supposed to turn your back on them (via arrogance, superiority, anger, disgust, distaste, preference differences – etc.) and leave them out in the cold. Otherwise, we end up a man short in the ‘movement’ over bullshit. I’m not saying we need to be buddy-buddy or anything of the sort, we just need to pay attention to the kinds of trends we’re starting in our community (as in bisexual men in particular) toward each other because we all know that testosterone and anger don’t mix well.

Every male who’s gotten into these ‘battles’, so to speak, in regard to what they do and don’t like/do as a bisexual is speaking from a place that rides a line between comfort/arrogance/fear/insecurity/and-the-list-goes-on. It’s not just a matter of differing preferences and that’s clear to anyone reading the posts here. For every guy on this site who doesn’t want to kiss, dance, hug, cuddle, etc. with another guy – there’s just as many who do and as a result are subject to feelings of frustration, invalidation, distaste and general internal dissonance because their bisexuality is being ‘compromised’ by people who are ‘half-assing’ it. For those men, the ones who only want to hook up or suck a dick become people who make the entirety of bisexuals look bad. They feel that these people only want the edges of m/m interaction and what they want is purely sex based. Add a little arrogance about wanting intimacy over just sex (another rift between factions in the bi-world that isn’t gender specific) and you’ve got a mindset that cannot see the ‘hook up’ folks as legitimately bisexual – even if they’re accepted as bi, they’re bisexual in an inferior manner. From that perspective, the hookup guys further the stereotype that all bi men are gritty bastards who’re ditching and lying to wives/partners – all in the pursuit of a quick fuck; especially in the face of the grudgingly open acceptance of purely homosexual behavior, but where anything m/m is highly scrutinized. The people who don’t want to ‘go the distance’ seem to be detracting from the ones trying to run the entire race. Therefore, it causes a rift that's deeper and wider than it needs to be.

Oppositely, for every guy on this site who wants intimacy and a relationship with a guy (and all that entails), those looking for a hook-up are forced onto the defensive because their sexuality is questioned and spoken ill of whenever they’re confronted by one of their relationship/intimacy-seeking counterparts. Like anybody that gets attacked, they get defensive, insular and have a tendency to get catty as a result. Their reactions make sense because they’re being told that if they don’t do or want to do everything that the ‘real’ bisexuals want to, that they’re not really bi and are bringing down everyone who’s ‘legitimate’. They have to become increasingly stalwart/aggressive because they’re constantly being told by their own that what they’re after makes them inferior in our portion of society. It’s not fair, but by this point in life everyone should know that things aren’t fair (a word some cultures don’t even have an equivalent of) – however, these people should still be able to feel that at the end of the day, someone’s on their side, too.

Personally, I do have the internal progression of my own bisexuality and it confuses me sometimes to see other people unwilling to take certain steps that I have. It’s a natural response to people being different and sometimes, I’m really gonna dislike certain people as a result. For example, I can’t stand men who cheat – I can write a dissertation on why, but the only thing I can honestly do because they’re still in my ‘family’ and I respect the fact that through their decisions they’ve managed to survive for a time on this Earth – is to let them go their way and do whatever it is they do for the reasons they feel are legitimate. It doesn’t mean I’m ever going to agree with their behavior, in effectively all cases it means I’m inherently not going to like them and choose not to interact with them; I’ll even speak my opinion about their behavior in open forums – but it’s my opinion and I’ll be sure I say it in such a fashion as to reflect that because I will not turn my back on them as people and see them as inferior or detrimental to bisexual men as a whole. They’re just doing something I really, really don’t agree with. I also don’t agree with shooting heroin, but if someone wants to put the effects of such onto themselves and their surroundings – that’s their choice. All I can do is try and remind them of the damage they may be doing to people outside of themselves, but at the very end I respect the fact that they had some kind of thought, made a choice as a result and are going with it. I just hope that they’ve honestly confronted themselves internally about why they made it and are willing to deal with all of the results be they good, bad or indifferent.

I’m not a Libertarian, but a friend of mine who is put it best when he said, ‘the right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose’. He’s right – he can do whatever the hell he wants with his fists (good or bad) and I’ll respect his right to freedom – until he touches the tip of my nose. As long as he doesn’t expect me to do what he does, we can be fine and happy folks together. Everyone knows that people have a tendency to want to impress their morality/ideology onto others – if only by trying to make those who don’t share it feel ashamed for their behavior. That’s an arrogance tactic and it’s just not okay to see it in a place that’s supposed to be able to do one thing pretty well – which is not further oppress already minority positions.

Now, I’ve said my peace – I want to hear what others have to say in response. Flame me, diss me, agree with me or don’t – just say something and be honest about it. Don’t feel the need to validate or justify yourself or your argument in front of a bunch of other bisexual men (or women who read/comment on the thread, because we know they will). Say what you mean, but really mean whatever you say.

Enoll
Apr 17, 2007, 1:09 PM
All I'd like to say is, welcome to the human race.

mike9753
Apr 17, 2007, 2:19 PM
Frankly I got lost reading your post. I got tired of reading what I thought were confusing opinions. It was too much work. And this is a comment from a guy (me) who is often criticized, rightly so, for going on and on.

I guess my comment is: So what's your point?

You may have a great point, but it is not really clear to me.

Mike

yoyo4u
Apr 17, 2007, 2:38 PM
Call it male ignorance, but I don't know what, or what else to add to your opening post.

Perhaps.....male-bisexuality, or male-sexuality is not that complex after all(?). :rolleyes:

Someone, someplace, once compared male sexuality to hydraulics. Now that is really simple both in theory and in actuality.:tongue:

I will also be interested to see what the rest of the gangg will have to say.

love,
yoyo :cool:

Cerealk
Apr 17, 2007, 2:43 PM
I agree with you and find my views to be similar with yours. However, I will sum it up differently: "My liberty stops where the one of others begin." I do expect people to respect my own, and try the best I can within my "juridiction" to protect myself against those who dont. But, a lot of things are not mine to decide or to act upon, even if they have impact on me. Thats an issue with this view that I am slowly accepting. I am not surrending myself, but I will avoid fighting back.

This is just a generalization because I dont feel as if any subject I have seen discussed here has had any negative impact on me. Im just growing to be more understanding every day.

mindfinding
Apr 17, 2007, 3:05 PM
Hey Diamond,

I think your saying "why can't we all just get along.....and be bloody honest, man?!".

Your correct in you assertion of the many hypocrisies that follow the human race. Men are funny that way, but so are women. But more to the point of our conversation.

I, like you, feel a certain amount of animosity when hearing about a "hook up". I'm an intimate lover, so I require that bond with my mate. I had a few one night stands in my single days, but they always left me feeling disgusted with myself. There are many bi's, straights, and gays that hold that true as well. But like you said, we really shouldn't judge.

Yes, your post is a little long winded and you might get lost in spots, but you right like I do so I followed it quite easily. I applaud your time at the key board.

Interesting read, and a great window into who you are. Cheers:)

DeafF2M
Apr 17, 2007, 3:33 PM
My bit of honesty is this... I applaud your post... a bit long-winded, yeah, but honest. You've got virtues that some men here don't share.

Now, for a bit of my own honesty... I used to be a cheater... now, I'm in an open relationship. Am I hopping in bed with every man and woman I see? No, but I do appreciate being able to do that and be completely honest with my wife. The fact that she was willing to try an open relationship astounds me and I'm so very grateful for it.

That said, I'm human. I make mistakes and I learn from them. I find a number of bisexual men who also stumble along the same path as I did. Some choose to stay on that path.. others like me finally decide that being honest feels so much better than lying and sneaking around.

Nobody is perfect and not everybody is going to share your views, but ya know what.. that's what makes the world go around.. our individuality. Kudos to you for sticking to your guns.

diamond_tether
Apr 17, 2007, 3:36 PM
I think your saying "why can't we all just get along.....and be bloody honest, man?!".



Yeah, in retrospect it turned out to be a much longer post than I'd planned. I do have a tendancy to twist my sentences into rather lengthy critters once I've been writing for a while. Hopefully folks can manage through it, lol. However, I'll unabashedly steal Mindfinding's quote which just about sums everything up. ;)

teamnoir
Apr 17, 2007, 5:23 PM
Frankly I got lost reading your post. I got tired of reading what I thought were confusing opinions. It was too much work. And this is a comment from a guy (me) who is often criticized, rightly so, for going on and on.

I guess my comment is: So what's your point?

You may have a great point, but it is not really clear to me.

Mike

I agree. I don't see the point of the original post and it was a lot of rambling and I didn't understand what the poster was trying to say with his words?

Dr.StrangeLove
Apr 17, 2007, 6:22 PM
Yeah...I'm totally confused too.

TaylorMade
Apr 17, 2007, 6:34 PM
It was a little hard to follow, but it does dovetail what I find myself saying often: There are as many ways to be bisexual as there are bisexuals. Putting down someone based on preference makes you no better than those who put all of us down.

*Taylor*

ambi53mm
Apr 17, 2007, 11:34 PM
We’re not here to be a hippy-dippy (no offense to real hippies, by the way)


None taken :)

Diamond, I've read your post a few times. I found no difficulty in comprehending your line of thinking and agree with the overall intent of your message. I think the real value I sometimes find with these forums isn't so much in reading what others have to say or feel about a given subject, as much as the cathartic process of arriving at my own truth. It’s not so much reacting to what lies without, as it is to discovering what lies within that’s of personal interest to me. If someone benefits through that process then that’s great and if it gets misunderstood or falls on deaf ears LOL it really doesn’t matter in the bigger scheme of things. Your post demonstrates that very process and I hope it was beneficial to you.

Ambi :)

travelrat69
Apr 18, 2007, 12:42 AM
I liked the posting and I liked Ambi's posting--I agree with both. These forums can provide a good medium for quality idea exchange. If we read things that don't jive with our personal points of view, we don't have to agree. However, not agreeing doesn't have to include attacking others' views. We can explore varied points of view without having to react strongly to those we don't agree with. So we don't agree--fine.

bigregory
Apr 18, 2007, 12:52 AM
I did not get the point of your post but did enjoy reading all your concepts.
ambi53mm's comment reflects my own
None taken :)

Diamond, I've read your post a few times. I found no difficulty in comprehending your line of thinking and agree with the overall intent of your message. I think the real value I sometimes find with these forums isn't so much in reading what others have to say or feel about a given subject, as much as the cathartic process of arriving at my own truth. It’s not so much reacting to what lies without, as it is to discovering what lies within that’s of personal interest to me. If someone benefits through that process then that’s great and if it gets misunderstood or falls on deaf ears LOL it really doesn’t matter in the bigger scheme of things. Your post demonstrates that very process and I hope it was beneficial to you.

Ambi :)

biwords
Apr 18, 2007, 12:55 AM
Are we reading the same website, diamondtether? Unless I'm editing out the negative stuff, my impression is that no one has said "true bisexuals kiss/don't kiss" or "I like/don't like to kiss and that makes me better than others with opposite preferences". Most of the time, people are merely describing their own preferences and explaining why other approaches don't work as well FOR THEM. Certainly there has been a lot of flaming on this site, but that's mostly just egos clashing, or members reacting to some real or perceived rudeness; most of it isn't ideological at all.

It's true that sometimes people go out of their way to ensure that they're not coming across as intolerant (for example, by invoking the overused phrase 'that's only my two cents'). My guess is that a lot of that is based on the accurate perception that online communication is easily misunderstood, since tone, body language and so on can't be conveyed as easily as in face-to-face conversation. So, we throw in a few more phrases to make it clear that we're neither offended nor seeking to offend.

Anyway, that's my two....No! No! It's got me too. Arrrgh!