diamond_tether
Apr 17, 2007, 1:04 PM
I’ve been on the site long enough and have seen enough posts that I (the male half of the couple) am perfectly comfortable saying what I’m about to say. I don’t want to change any one’s opinion, I’m not trying to get anyone to take a side – I, like everyone else, have made some observations and just want to be heard. Below I make some generalizations, but they’re not meant to be all encompassing, they’re meant to be illustrative of concepts in my head. Some will probably see them as an attack, but that’s on them and it’s okay because sometimes that’s all people are gonna see.
I want to say something in response to several threads (and more to a general trend in the male-bi world) I’ve seen regarding who does what, why and what kind of bisexual it makes them as a result. All the male posturing about bisexuality out there is driving me kind of nuts. If someone says anything on one side or the other of an issue – first it’s attacked (passive aggressively and/or openly aggressively) and then it’s followed by the floofy, happy comments about how ‘everyone’s different and needs to be respected for their differences’ yadda yadda yadda. It’s garbage that we’re all guilty of slinging. If we did respect other people’s feelings and preferences these kinds of forums probably wouldn’t work they way they do. They educate by exposing their members to a very wide range of ideas/personalities. In a perfect world that exposure would educate us or enlighten us to other perspectives, we’d take a step back and realize we feel differently than others and learn to work with that. Unfortunately humans just aren’t that benevolent. What happens in the real world is that people find where they stand in relation to everyone else and have stake out their claim (sometimes with a shotgun in hand) in response. Some stuff they can accept in other people and other stuff they can’t, but they’ll fight for what they feel and are happy to try and coat their dislike in a gossamer film of ‘acceptance’ rhetoric and ideology.
We’re really not supposed to like everyone – I don’t think any creature can, but people try to act from a mythical place where everyone is either kind of the same (if not, they should be/can possibly be) or where we’re all magically understanding and honestly accepting of everyone else. The rhetoric says one thing, but we all know what other people are really saying to us sometimes. Thankfully, majority can’t rule because we’re too small and fractured (not in a bad way) of a group for a majority to really appear. We’re not here to be a hippy-dippy (no offense to real hippies, by the way) group of friends who all share the same tastes, interests, ideology, etc (if ANYONE can bring me an internal consensus of bisexuality – I’d love to see it). We’re here to be more like a family – as in you’ve got siblings and cousins who drive you crazy, intentionally provoke you and piss you off (sometimes for no reason other than the simple fact that they can). They’re people you don’t have to like or pretend to like/understand – but that you have to be okay with and gracefully accept in the end no matter what because we’re all ‘technically’ on the same side. You don’t have to like your teammates or your family, you can even shoot them in the back sometimes, you’re just not supposed to turn your back on them (via arrogance, superiority, anger, disgust, distaste, preference differences – etc.) and leave them out in the cold. Otherwise, we end up a man short in the ‘movement’ over bullshit. I’m not saying we need to be buddy-buddy or anything of the sort, we just need to pay attention to the kinds of trends we’re starting in our community (as in bisexual men in particular) toward each other because we all know that testosterone and anger don’t mix well.
Every male who’s gotten into these ‘battles’, so to speak, in regard to what they do and don’t like/do as a bisexual is speaking from a place that rides a line between comfort/arrogance/fear/insecurity/and-the-list-goes-on. It’s not just a matter of differing preferences and that’s clear to anyone reading the posts here. For every guy on this site who doesn’t want to kiss, dance, hug, cuddle, etc. with another guy – there’s just as many who do and as a result are subject to feelings of frustration, invalidation, distaste and general internal dissonance because their bisexuality is being ‘compromised’ by people who are ‘half-assing’ it. For those men, the ones who only want to hook up or suck a dick become people who make the entirety of bisexuals look bad. They feel that these people only want the edges of m/m interaction and what they want is purely sex based. Add a little arrogance about wanting intimacy over just sex (another rift between factions in the bi-world that isn’t gender specific) and you’ve got a mindset that cannot see the ‘hook up’ folks as legitimately bisexual – even if they’re accepted as bi, they’re bisexual in an inferior manner. From that perspective, the hookup guys further the stereotype that all bi men are gritty bastards who’re ditching and lying to wives/partners – all in the pursuit of a quick fuck; especially in the face of the grudgingly open acceptance of purely homosexual behavior, but where anything m/m is highly scrutinized. The people who don’t want to ‘go the distance’ seem to be detracting from the ones trying to run the entire race. Therefore, it causes a rift that's deeper and wider than it needs to be.
Oppositely, for every guy on this site who wants intimacy and a relationship with a guy (and all that entails), those looking for a hook-up are forced onto the defensive because their sexuality is questioned and spoken ill of whenever they’re confronted by one of their relationship/intimacy-seeking counterparts. Like anybody that gets attacked, they get defensive, insular and have a tendency to get catty as a result. Their reactions make sense because they’re being told that if they don’t do or want to do everything that the ‘real’ bisexuals want to, that they’re not really bi and are bringing down everyone who’s ‘legitimate’. They have to become increasingly stalwart/aggressive because they’re constantly being told by their own that what they’re after makes them inferior in our portion of society. It’s not fair, but by this point in life everyone should know that things aren’t fair (a word some cultures don’t even have an equivalent of) – however, these people should still be able to feel that at the end of the day, someone’s on their side, too.
Personally, I do have the internal progression of my own bisexuality and it confuses me sometimes to see other people unwilling to take certain steps that I have. It’s a natural response to people being different and sometimes, I’m really gonna dislike certain people as a result. For example, I can’t stand men who cheat – I can write a dissertation on why, but the only thing I can honestly do because they’re still in my ‘family’ and I respect the fact that through their decisions they’ve managed to survive for a time on this Earth – is to let them go their way and do whatever it is they do for the reasons they feel are legitimate. It doesn’t mean I’m ever going to agree with their behavior, in effectively all cases it means I’m inherently not going to like them and choose not to interact with them; I’ll even speak my opinion about their behavior in open forums – but it’s my opinion and I’ll be sure I say it in such a fashion as to reflect that because I will not turn my back on them as people and see them as inferior or detrimental to bisexual men as a whole. They’re just doing something I really, really don’t agree with. I also don’t agree with shooting heroin, but if someone wants to put the effects of such onto themselves and their surroundings – that’s their choice. All I can do is try and remind them of the damage they may be doing to people outside of themselves, but at the very end I respect the fact that they had some kind of thought, made a choice as a result and are going with it. I just hope that they’ve honestly confronted themselves internally about why they made it and are willing to deal with all of the results be they good, bad or indifferent.
I’m not a Libertarian, but a friend of mine who is put it best when he said, ‘the right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose’. He’s right – he can do whatever the hell he wants with his fists (good or bad) and I’ll respect his right to freedom – until he touches the tip of my nose. As long as he doesn’t expect me to do what he does, we can be fine and happy folks together. Everyone knows that people have a tendency to want to impress their morality/ideology onto others – if only by trying to make those who don’t share it feel ashamed for their behavior. That’s an arrogance tactic and it’s just not okay to see it in a place that’s supposed to be able to do one thing pretty well – which is not further oppress already minority positions.
Now, I’ve said my peace – I want to hear what others have to say in response. Flame me, diss me, agree with me or don’t – just say something and be honest about it. Don’t feel the need to validate or justify yourself or your argument in front of a bunch of other bisexual men (or women who read/comment on the thread, because we know they will). Say what you mean, but really mean whatever you say.
I want to say something in response to several threads (and more to a general trend in the male-bi world) I’ve seen regarding who does what, why and what kind of bisexual it makes them as a result. All the male posturing about bisexuality out there is driving me kind of nuts. If someone says anything on one side or the other of an issue – first it’s attacked (passive aggressively and/or openly aggressively) and then it’s followed by the floofy, happy comments about how ‘everyone’s different and needs to be respected for their differences’ yadda yadda yadda. It’s garbage that we’re all guilty of slinging. If we did respect other people’s feelings and preferences these kinds of forums probably wouldn’t work they way they do. They educate by exposing their members to a very wide range of ideas/personalities. In a perfect world that exposure would educate us or enlighten us to other perspectives, we’d take a step back and realize we feel differently than others and learn to work with that. Unfortunately humans just aren’t that benevolent. What happens in the real world is that people find where they stand in relation to everyone else and have stake out their claim (sometimes with a shotgun in hand) in response. Some stuff they can accept in other people and other stuff they can’t, but they’ll fight for what they feel and are happy to try and coat their dislike in a gossamer film of ‘acceptance’ rhetoric and ideology.
We’re really not supposed to like everyone – I don’t think any creature can, but people try to act from a mythical place where everyone is either kind of the same (if not, they should be/can possibly be) or where we’re all magically understanding and honestly accepting of everyone else. The rhetoric says one thing, but we all know what other people are really saying to us sometimes. Thankfully, majority can’t rule because we’re too small and fractured (not in a bad way) of a group for a majority to really appear. We’re not here to be a hippy-dippy (no offense to real hippies, by the way) group of friends who all share the same tastes, interests, ideology, etc (if ANYONE can bring me an internal consensus of bisexuality – I’d love to see it). We’re here to be more like a family – as in you’ve got siblings and cousins who drive you crazy, intentionally provoke you and piss you off (sometimes for no reason other than the simple fact that they can). They’re people you don’t have to like or pretend to like/understand – but that you have to be okay with and gracefully accept in the end no matter what because we’re all ‘technically’ on the same side. You don’t have to like your teammates or your family, you can even shoot them in the back sometimes, you’re just not supposed to turn your back on them (via arrogance, superiority, anger, disgust, distaste, preference differences – etc.) and leave them out in the cold. Otherwise, we end up a man short in the ‘movement’ over bullshit. I’m not saying we need to be buddy-buddy or anything of the sort, we just need to pay attention to the kinds of trends we’re starting in our community (as in bisexual men in particular) toward each other because we all know that testosterone and anger don’t mix well.
Every male who’s gotten into these ‘battles’, so to speak, in regard to what they do and don’t like/do as a bisexual is speaking from a place that rides a line between comfort/arrogance/fear/insecurity/and-the-list-goes-on. It’s not just a matter of differing preferences and that’s clear to anyone reading the posts here. For every guy on this site who doesn’t want to kiss, dance, hug, cuddle, etc. with another guy – there’s just as many who do and as a result are subject to feelings of frustration, invalidation, distaste and general internal dissonance because their bisexuality is being ‘compromised’ by people who are ‘half-assing’ it. For those men, the ones who only want to hook up or suck a dick become people who make the entirety of bisexuals look bad. They feel that these people only want the edges of m/m interaction and what they want is purely sex based. Add a little arrogance about wanting intimacy over just sex (another rift between factions in the bi-world that isn’t gender specific) and you’ve got a mindset that cannot see the ‘hook up’ folks as legitimately bisexual – even if they’re accepted as bi, they’re bisexual in an inferior manner. From that perspective, the hookup guys further the stereotype that all bi men are gritty bastards who’re ditching and lying to wives/partners – all in the pursuit of a quick fuck; especially in the face of the grudgingly open acceptance of purely homosexual behavior, but where anything m/m is highly scrutinized. The people who don’t want to ‘go the distance’ seem to be detracting from the ones trying to run the entire race. Therefore, it causes a rift that's deeper and wider than it needs to be.
Oppositely, for every guy on this site who wants intimacy and a relationship with a guy (and all that entails), those looking for a hook-up are forced onto the defensive because their sexuality is questioned and spoken ill of whenever they’re confronted by one of their relationship/intimacy-seeking counterparts. Like anybody that gets attacked, they get defensive, insular and have a tendency to get catty as a result. Their reactions make sense because they’re being told that if they don’t do or want to do everything that the ‘real’ bisexuals want to, that they’re not really bi and are bringing down everyone who’s ‘legitimate’. They have to become increasingly stalwart/aggressive because they’re constantly being told by their own that what they’re after makes them inferior in our portion of society. It’s not fair, but by this point in life everyone should know that things aren’t fair (a word some cultures don’t even have an equivalent of) – however, these people should still be able to feel that at the end of the day, someone’s on their side, too.
Personally, I do have the internal progression of my own bisexuality and it confuses me sometimes to see other people unwilling to take certain steps that I have. It’s a natural response to people being different and sometimes, I’m really gonna dislike certain people as a result. For example, I can’t stand men who cheat – I can write a dissertation on why, but the only thing I can honestly do because they’re still in my ‘family’ and I respect the fact that through their decisions they’ve managed to survive for a time on this Earth – is to let them go their way and do whatever it is they do for the reasons they feel are legitimate. It doesn’t mean I’m ever going to agree with their behavior, in effectively all cases it means I’m inherently not going to like them and choose not to interact with them; I’ll even speak my opinion about their behavior in open forums – but it’s my opinion and I’ll be sure I say it in such a fashion as to reflect that because I will not turn my back on them as people and see them as inferior or detrimental to bisexual men as a whole. They’re just doing something I really, really don’t agree with. I also don’t agree with shooting heroin, but if someone wants to put the effects of such onto themselves and their surroundings – that’s their choice. All I can do is try and remind them of the damage they may be doing to people outside of themselves, but at the very end I respect the fact that they had some kind of thought, made a choice as a result and are going with it. I just hope that they’ve honestly confronted themselves internally about why they made it and are willing to deal with all of the results be they good, bad or indifferent.
I’m not a Libertarian, but a friend of mine who is put it best when he said, ‘the right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose’. He’s right – he can do whatever the hell he wants with his fists (good or bad) and I’ll respect his right to freedom – until he touches the tip of my nose. As long as he doesn’t expect me to do what he does, we can be fine and happy folks together. Everyone knows that people have a tendency to want to impress their morality/ideology onto others – if only by trying to make those who don’t share it feel ashamed for their behavior. That’s an arrogance tactic and it’s just not okay to see it in a place that’s supposed to be able to do one thing pretty well – which is not further oppress already minority positions.
Now, I’ve said my peace – I want to hear what others have to say in response. Flame me, diss me, agree with me or don’t – just say something and be honest about it. Don’t feel the need to validate or justify yourself or your argument in front of a bunch of other bisexual men (or women who read/comment on the thread, because we know they will). Say what you mean, but really mean whatever you say.