Should IMUS be fired?

[mike9753]

I don't know how many people on this forum have heard of Don Imus. He is a "shock jock" on the radio ahd has been around for 30 years. He can be funny, but is usually cantankerous and frequently outrageous.

Recently he referred to the Rutgers Girls Basketball team in racially and sexually degrading terms: (...nappy headed hos) was a portion of the quote.

In listenning to him for a long time, I don't think there has been any group that he has not insulted - as badly as that or even worse. He does hold the line at anything related to children or HIV.

In addition, he has been a wonderfully effective fundraiser for children with autism, sudden infant death syndrome and he runs a non-profit ranch for kids with cancer.

He has also interviewed politicians and jounalists, including Presidential candidates and he nearly always gives them a slap in the face if they are appearing to hypocritical or disengenuous.

I don't mean to defend him or what he said, but for anyone who has not heard him, I tried to summarize a few relevant points.

Now many, including Jesse Jackson and Al Sharfton are calling for him to be fired. He has apologized for his remarks, several times. He has appeared on Al Sharfton's radio show for 2 hours to discuss this. he has sounded contrite, but he is still feisty.

Any opinions?

BTW, I am posting this here because it deals with bigotry, racism and people making mistakes. We have all sufferred from or been affected by these dynamics. I guess I would like to know folks thoughts on tihs. And last but not least, there are many very smart folks of this site whose opinion I value.

Mike

[DeafF2M]

Racism is such a difficult thing to erase -- I mean, words DO hurt. "Nappy headed hos??!?!?" What was he thinking??? I mean, come on... these girls are as talented off the court as they are ON the court. A couple of pre-meds, a couple of musicians, all are excellent students.

Can you imagine the insult to them?

But, should he be fired? I don't know. The man is brave -- he got on Sharpton's show to apologize and I think that says a hell of a lot, but I do think there is still a need for punitive action. What that is, I don't know.

Look,.. this kind of comment wasn't just hurting the kids that he was talking about, but it hurts anyone who is black. Heck, I'm white and I felt insulted.

I think there is a HUGE difference from creating shock and just being racist.

Shock is okay, most of the time, but racism hurts everybody.

[12voltman59]

I don't think the I-man should get the boot--

With Imus--you know what the hell you are getting--an old broken down, cranky as hell old bastard--that is what the hell the man gets paid very well to do---

It was a pretty damn stupid remark to make but he has apologized every which way from Sunday--I don't take much of what Al Sharpton has to say with much credibilty--he is just a grandstander!!!

This is coming from a gasp-- :eek: :eek: a liberal son of a gun like me!!!!!

I hope that the advertisers for Imus on both the radio and the tube do not cave into the pressure from the interest groups---that is what it comes down to--"Show me the money"--but they probably will cave and he will get the heave ho!!!!

[DeafF2M]

I don't think the I-man should get the boot--

It was a pretty damn stupid remark to make but he has apologized every which way from Sunday--I don't take much of what Al Sharpton has to say with much credibilty--he is just a grandstander!!!



This is NOT about Al Sharpton. I'm not that fond of the guy myself -- I agree, he's a grandstander. But, this is about racism, period and that goes beyond being some cranky old man who gets to vent all kinds of crap on air.

I think something should be done. Not necessarily a firing, but I think there needs to be some sort of punitive action taken, irregardless of the apology.

I'd personally like to hear what a person of color thinks of this whole thing. I'm white and while I'm anti-racism, i'm not a person of color. The comments don't affect me in the same way, but I still say racism hurts everyone. It just hurts them more.

[Tommy2020]

OMG.... didn't think I would see this thread in this forum this fast.

Now brethren, don't get upset and start flaming until you see the reason for my comments here.

I, for one have never cared for 'MUSIC' that calls for the raping of mothers, the killing of law enforcement personnel, the killing of the president, and 'MUSIC' that calls itself, 'RAP'....

Are we to encourage a double standard by demanding the dismissal of one person for using the terms, 'nappy headed hos'..' and look the other way when Eminem 'sings' about raping his mother? And most of the other 'RAPPERS' sing (and if you can call that singing you need to listen to some John Denver or others) about killing the president, and police officers, and even call women, "HOs". Imagine that!

Are we to simply just smile and say, 'well that is entertainment.... and freedom of speech.... and that's just music.... '. C'mon. Entertainment that calls for killing and raping is NOT, I repeat, NOT entertainment.

Should Imus be fired? Not until all the other people that use those derogatory terms in describing other human beings, and call for killing and raping are shut down on a permanent basis.

When the record industry and the movie producers quit glamorizing that kind of crap then, and only then, would I support the termination of Imus and any other 'entertainer' that crosses the line of decency.

Have a great day,
Tommy2020

:soapbox:

[Herbwoman39]

I would be interested to hear comments from the women who were targeted by Imus' comment. I reserve judgment until after I've heard from those ladies.

Yes, his comments were crude, callus and completely inexcusable. But if they caused no actual psychological harm to those who were the target, then I fail to see the reason for his firing.

[noostoo]

I, for one have never cared for 'MUSIC' that calls for the raping of mothers, the killing of law enforcement personnel, the killing of the president, and 'MUSIC' that calls itself, 'RAP'....

Are we to simply just smile and say, 'well that is entertainment.... and freedom of speech.... and that's just music.... '. C'mon. Entertainment that calls for killing and raping is NOT, I repeat, NOT entertainment.


I shot a man in Reno... just to watch him die.

Not wanting to take the thread off topic but to single out rap in it's entirety is just daft.

[julie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6540703.stm

well this story has made it to the UK... so i thought you may be interested to read how its being played out over here.

julie :female:

[Tommy2020]

Not wanting to take the thread off topic but to single out rap in it's entirety is just daft.

Just to be totally honest, I just didn't remember Johnny Cash. You're right. Thank you foir the memory jog.

But, in all fairness, I included records and movies....

And again, in all fairness, I did not single out 'RAP' as the sole cause.

But I still don't like it.

Maybe you missed some of the sentences. I knew someone would do that.

Tommy2020

[bigirl_inwv]

I've gotta agree with Tommy on this one.

I've heard Dan Patrick say "ho's" many times while on air and nothing was ever said about it. I listen to music where people say it. I hear people say it on a day to day basis. It's said on TV allllllll the time.

While I definatley don't agree with the statements that were made, I think that it's supporting the double standard if he gets into serious trouble over this. Fine him, suspend him for a bit but not fired.

[TaylorMade]

What he said was offensive and low class. . .

But ix-nay on the iring-fay.

*Taylor*

[godowntogether]

I really get tired of people making a big deal out of things like this, it is just not that important or news worthy. There are many more things to worry about than what one man said even if it was wrong. One thing that I am sure of is the people that are complaining the loudest do not listen to Imus and are probably always saying we have a right to freedom of speach. ( until something is said they don't like) :bipride:

[entropy]

Are we to simply just smile and say, 'well that is entertainment.... and freedom of speech.... and that's just music.... '. C'mon. Entertainment that calls for killing and raping is NOT, I repeat, NOT entertainment.

That's not correct, it is entertainment. The idea that they're able to be in complete control without any authority over them (fuck the police, i'm a gangsta, i shot a man in reno...) is entertaining. I think people need to think about how what they're entertained by really defines them. I'm not saying all rebellion is bad, just the kind that doesn't handle their conflicts in a reasonable way... if you've got a problem with the government, etc, you don't need to shoot police (or even like the idea of thinking about it) to support your point.

People shouldn't be talking as much about imus here, as they should be about social standards and why we don't speak the way he does about people... it sounds like preaching, but apparently some people don't understand.

But if they didn't cover stories like imus, they could instead focus on all the more important things they've been ignoring so that the news makes more of a profit...

[teamnoir]

I shake my head at over sensitive nit wits that make everything a big god damn issue. God forbid some one say something that can be seen as borderline offensive or racist. People worry about too much about what other people say.

I know nothing about this guy, but given the first sentence on this article, this is his normal shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Imus

So, it's not like it's anything new with him.

if a black radio host had made the same comments under the same circumstances would this even be a story? I doubt that it would be. Or if a black radio host had called a white person a cracker or a latino person a beaner I doubt it would have caused an uproar either.

Neither 'nappy headed' or 'ho' are racial slurs.

If something is offensive or racist, it is offensive or racist no matter who says it. People make things less/more meaningful when it comes to the color of the skin.

would it have been an uproar had an old black TV host said it? or a black rapper? No there wouldn't have been.

Because he is an old white man the "nappy headed" comment would be perceived as racist and the "Ho's" comment would be seen as derogatory.

He did however say that the Tennessee players were cute and some of them are black.

I think he was just trying to say that the Rutgers players were not ladylike and looked rough and played tough like the men from the raptors.

Again he was wrong for his comment and a suspension seems about right but i wouldn't go and call him racist.

[12voltman59]

I stick to my original response regarding Imus' situation--he has been reprimanded--it will make it hard for him to book certain people on his show who once came and such--the fact is-his career is probably over due to this and for the fact that his advertisers will bail on his show--

Yes --what he did say was bad but as someone did note--and I have seen this on some comedy shows on HBO and BET where black different black comedians did call whites "crackers" and "Jones" and other similar things--I did not turn off--I continued to laugh and hell--I would go see em at a comedy club--the fact is you do have to have a sense of humor about such things.

As I said--Imus is most certainly chastened by his remarks--but should he be fired--no.

The reality is--we do live in a very divided society in many ways--not just by race, but by religion, class, sex, etc.

Imus' career--even if this had not happened-was probably not too far from its end--and the question of his being fired is moot--I predict that over the course of the next two weeks--he will release a statement saying something to the effect:

"Due to my recent unfortunate and offensive remarks--I have been suspended by my employers, but after much reflection these past few days and after discussions with my wife, family, my staff and others--I have decided to officially announce my retirement effective immediately. I want to thank all of my loyal radio program listeners and those who viewed my program on MSNBC for your support of my show and thank you for your best wishes during this trying time. Once again, I do admit that my remarks made in regards to the team were offensive, inappropriate and indefensable. For making them--I am most sincerely sorry. I now look forward to the next stage of my life--we will continue our program here at the ranch to help the children who take part in our program to reach their full potential. I shall fully dedicate all of my energies in the coming months and years to that end. Thank you and may God Bless you all,
Sincerely, Don Imus"

It might not be exactly that, but pretty damn close--he will get the bulk of his contract money so he should not be hurting too much and of course-in a few years-he can write or have a ghost written book about this come out and it will sell millions of copies.

As far as someone being fired for being a racist to at least some degree is concerned--if that was the case--the country would grind to a halt because every last one of us-white, black, asian, christian, jew, young, old etcetera, etcetra, etcetera... has at one point in our lives done or said something that is racist, etc, and all of us would be fired!!!!

It is kind of like that old Biblical admonition of "he who is without sin may cast the first stone!"

I have had my time where I was gulity of such things and each of us has as well--it is just the matter of degree that we have done so---and if you say that you never have--I don't believe youuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!! ;) ;)

[TommyB7]

IMUS should be fired, but not because of the current flap. He should be fired because his show is very crappy. He and his whole crew are disgusting!!!!

Tommy
NC

[biwords]

I'll vote with Tommy2020 on this one.

[WestTennBiGuy]

Personally, being a southern male automaticly concidered a redneck, I think this topic is a bunch of bullshit. If it had been a Black, yes I said Black, talk show host calling a sports team a bunch of HONKIE Dikes it would not have been any second thought of this. But since it was a white man, he's a bigot, and must be fired from his job & taken/banned from TV.

Why is it when a White man makes a comment or racial slur it's bigotry??? If a Black man makes one it's ok. If a Hispanic makes fun of everyone it's comedy???

If people in this country really wants to get along then we need to stop pointing fingers at each other and saying you hate me because I'm not the way you want me.

my :2cents: worth

Rob

[CompletelyBi]

Meh, I just say let it go. Racism is so over played and so beaten into people's face at every waking moment of any day, that anything that could be considered even mildy offensive brings screaming red sirens, calls for equality, and Jesse Jackson pounding at your door.

Granted, What Imus said wasn't 'mildly', in my own words, offensive. It could be safely considered offensive to a good amount of people. But words are words and it's time for people, especially the United States, to harder their shells a little and stop crying at every slur that happens to slip out of some douche bag's mouth.

[midwestseeker]

Well, i just heard that he's no longer going to be simulcast on MSNBC in the mornings, which upsets me a bit, since his was the only show i could stomach in the mornings.

Look, what he said was stupid and insensitive, and he should face some sort of punishment, but I dont think he's a racist or a bigot or whatever else.

He's a radio guy, and by nature radio "shock jocks" (i hate that term, since its a bit 1980s) run off at the mouth and think nothing of it. It's their schtick.

That's no excuse, its just that as a long time listner (or viewer i guess) of his program, I guess I just understand his routine. That whole offensive part took up literally 20 seconds of tape during sports before moving on; going by what the newspeople are saying, you'd think he slapped on a clan robe right there in the studio and railed against those women for an hour.

But i digress; While I understand completly that the women on the Rutgers team are (understandably) upset because they never got to enjoy their achievment at winning, I dont entirely buy their assertion that thier lives have been ruined that much by this incident.

At the end of the day, they are in a good school, are getting great grades, and will no doubt go on to great sucess in thier lives.

Im a firm beliver that words are powerful things, they can lift up, and they can also hurt. But on the other hands, words are still words, and as a country we need to grow up sometimes and realize just because someone says something we dont like, or even something that we'd go to our graves to stand against, the world wont end if they say it anyway.

Although now that Imus is (most likley) a goner at this point, genuine hate spewers like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity (who quite frankly have been saying crap WAYYYY worse than Imus for YEARS now) FINALLY get what's coming to them.

They actually deserve it.

[JohnnyV]

West Tenn Bi Guy,

I don't think Imus should be fired, and I think it's ridiculous how long this flap has lasted in the press. I would agree that there are double standards in American culture, whereby a sly remark against blacks or Jews is viewed as the end of the world, while broad disparaging remarks against Hispanics, Asians, or Muslims are part and parcel of Fox News and CNN shows like Lou Dobbs, Chris Matthews, Glen Beck, and the rest of them, without much ado. For that reason I think it's unhealthy to feed this scandal because it perpetuates the idea that blacks and Jews exist in some pristine otherworld of victimhood that's beyond any kind of criticism.

BUT your spiel about how hard it is to be a white Southerner is not right either. White men in the South put Bush in office, not once but twice, and controlled Congress for over 12 years. If a black leader like Tavis Smiley made a comment about honkie dikes, HELL YES HE'D BE FIRED. I'm not saying white people's feelings can't be hurt (obviously they can), but white people are in no way victims. Then again, I don't think any group is purely victimized, including blacks and Jews.

J



Personally, being a southern male automaticly concidered a redneck, I think this topic is a bunch of bullshit. If it had been a Black, yes I said Black, talk show host calling a sports team a bunch of HONKIE Dikes it would not have been any second thought of this. But since it was a white man, he's a bigot, and must be fired from his job & taken/banned from TV.

Why is it when a White man makes a comment or racial slur it's bigotry??? If a Black man makes one it's ok. If a Hispanic makes fun of everyone it's comedy???

If people in this country really wants to get along then we need to stop pointing fingers at each other and saying you hate me because I'm not the way you want me.

my :2cents: worth

Rob

[12voltman59]

It is definite--MSNBC canned Imus--I am sure that CBS Radio is not far behind.

I did read a mullti-part story written by an African-American staff writer for Newsweek Magazine earlier tonight---he did detail how Imus has a pretty long track record of making racist and other similar sorts of remarks-this was also pointed out in the "Today" interview Imus did with Matt Lauer on Tuesday morning.

In light of the fact that the Iman does have a long record of such comments and skits by his crew that are pretty well racist in nature--maybe it is time for him to depart the stage---but you know---this whole country has a great deal to answer for in terms of being racist--we had slavery for a good deal of our history and then when it ended--most of the country put Jim Crow laws into effect and then think of what we did to the native peoples that inhabited this land long before white Europeans did--"we" basically conducted a genocide of these people.

We do have much to answer to for the things we have done---John Brown said when he did the raid at Morgantown that this land must purge the sin of slavery with blood and God knows--much blood was shed in the Civil War or as some call it: "The War Between the States"--I don't think that The Civil War, in light of another hundred years of Jim Crow in not just the South, but the North as well, did not erase the sin of slavery--it only made things worse and extended that negative legacy.

It is a legacy that will most likely endure till the lights finally go out on this country and the last person exits and locks the doors....

[jaglvr]

They are not "racist by nature". This whole thing is a non issue. I wouldn't care if he was racist, though if anyone actually listened to the show and put things in perspective it would be obvious to you that he isn't and neither is any member of the crew and this is no more than a bad joke. One joke in poor taste does not define a man who has been on the air, very successfully, for thirty years. If you don't like what somebody says DON'T LISTEN! Stop being so reactionary America. Don Imus is one of the few "personalities" that is consistently honest and his show is always interesting with a huge variety of guests and topics. Thirty years people! I don't always like what he says or what he thinks or even his jokes but I can say that about everyone I have ever met. Do I take punitive action against my grandmother every time she makes a racist comment. Of course not! And she really is racist. This man has received death threats for supporting black politicians! Is that a racist? Do we fire Rush Limbaugh or Howard Stern or Jesse Jackson or any of the slew of "personalities" that have been deliberately inflammatory over the years? It doesn't matter. None of this crap matters. Is he denying them employment? Harassing them in the street? Abusing them? NO. Those things are racism and intolerance. An inability to forgive mistakes is intolerance. Assuming that a white man is a racist because he cracked a bad joke is real racism. I wouldn't dream of taking those other people off the air and they boil my blood like nothing else. If you get offended then you get offended. Life sucks. No one deserves to be coddled because they might get offended. That's ridiculous. All of that aside, the man sincerely and repeatedly apologised! More than we can say of most jockeys or any public personality for that matter. Any of you can say anything you want and I would never deny you that right. Racist or not. I expect the USA to extend civil rights to every citizen not just the ones with nothing offensive to say

[allbimyself]

<stands and applauds> Bravo, Jag! Bravo!

[mike9753]

IMUS has been fired. I just read a great article about this issue in the Washington Post.

A Needed Conversation
By Sally Jenkins
Thursday, April 12, 2007; Page E01
I don't want Don Imus fired. Instead, I want him to buy season tickets to Rutgers women's basketball and sit in the front row wearing a sweat shirt with a big letter R on it at every home game.

It serves no purpose to call for Imus's job; that's mere harsh vengeance and we've had enough undue harshness. If you shut down Imus's show, silence him, the conversation ends there. What's needed in the Rutgers-Imus affair, and on the subjects of racism and sexism in general, is not silence but talk, lots of it, and what's needed in women's basketball is a promoter. I know just the guy for the job.

When Essence Carson took the microphone to speak for the Rutgers team, you saw Imus's problem and why it hasn't gone away. In comparison with that blameless face and voice, his slur seemed tangibly, specifically abhorrent, and you felt it all over again. How could any intelligent person conjure such verbiage as "nappy-headed hos" in the first place, much less apply it to such a nice kid? Carson and the Scarlet Knights didn't lecture, they didn't say that injustice is what happens when you treat someone as an abstraction, a stranger, an "other." Instead, they simply demonstrated the point by introducing themselves, one by one, and made clear that the central sin and fallacy in any -ism, whether racism or sexism, is that it fails to take into account the individual qualities of an Essence Carson.

As Heather Zurich said, "What hurts the most about this situation is that Mr. Imus knows not one of us personally."

It's only fitting, then, that Imus should have to get to know each and every player, learn the particulars of their characters and details of their lives, and one way to do that is to go to their games. Carson is a straight-A student, a classical pianist, a composed speaker and someone's child. "Before the student comes the daughter," she said. Point guard Matee Ajavon sat out for two months with a stress fracture and has a steel rod in her leg. Coach C. Vivian Stringer has surmounted a series of tragedies over her Hall of Fame career. Her daughter was crippled by spinal meningitis, and she was widowed early. "My heart has never been light in going to a Final Four," she said. "It took me personally 25 years to come to a championship game."
Asked in a radio interview yesterday if she thought Imus was a racist, Stringer pointedly replied that she would wait to meet him in person before deciding.
The Scarlet Knights have decided to meet Imus face to face. And personally, I believe it's the right thing to do. They aren't looking for a punishment that fits the crime, or to join a mob action, and they can reach their own conclusions without being stampeded by Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson into demanding Imus's resignation. They have a chance to get something more meaningful from him: a full-fledged conversion.

To their credit, the Rutgers players seem to feel that it's no more right to paint Imus with a broad brush than it was to paint them with one. Imus seems sincerely ashamed of mouthing such unpardonable garbage, and it's legitimately hard to categorize him as an out-and-out racist. While I don't particularly know him, I've been on his show, and I listened to him champion Harold E. Ford Jr. during his run for U.S. Senate in Tennessee, and bitterly decry the slow government response to Hurricane Katrina. He's a shock-satirist who takes verbal baseball swings at piñata-size personalities for their pretensions, often as not powerful white people.

But regardless of what anyone thinks of Imus, you don't cure prejudice by curbing speech. Clearly, as a society we've made the uneasy decision that censorship is more dangerous than sensitivity, otherwise Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh wouldn't get work. Words are hurtful, but for the most part they're inactive. Censorship is an action. As columnist John Leo succinctly put it, "No insults means no free speech."

Just because words don't constitute acts, however, doesn't mean they're without effect, and that's where the Rutgers players have a chance to turn an evil incident into something beneficial. If nothing else, we've all learned that words aren't ephemeral, they hang around, in bits, texts and instant messages. Some things stay said. You can argue about whether Imus "scarred me for life," as Ajavon maintains, but he left a mark. The Rutgers kids assumed that the winner's circle was colorless and genderless, and Imus disabused them, abruptly, of that notion with one harsh sentence. He cost them that ideal. To a certain extent, he hardened their hearts, and he has to live with that.

It's not frivolous, then, to suggest that one way for Imus to make amends to the Scarlet Knights is to use his microphone to promote and defend a deserving sport. Female ballplayers still fight enormous prejudice: They deal with a daily drumbeat of small degrading remarks, false assumptions and acts of stubborn little meanness; their looks and skills are derided; and at some schools they even have to fight for time on the practice court. An example: Back in 1998, when Tennessee Coach Pat Summitt was being celebrated for her sixth national championship -- her sixth, mind you -- she returned to campus and in the hallway of her own arena, she ran into an aging male administrator, who went out of his way to insult her. He stared at her coolly. "Did you win?" he asked. It was his way of telling her it wasn't worth watching.

The truth is, the fallout from the Imus controversy is the most publicity the women's game ever has gotten. Some of the male sports columnists who weighed in this week annually neglect the women's Final Four, and most of them failed to witness a single game in which Rutgers played.

So how is the Rutgers team better served? By demanding Imus be fired, or by converting him into an ally and employing his powerful voice and platform? By silencing his microphone, or by engaging him in sustained and badly needed conversation about race and gender? By refusing his contrition, or by suggesting that he come and watch, close-up and firsthand, and get to know them and the game they love? Preferably, wearing a scarlet sweat shirt.