How OUT are you?

[Navarana]

I've been going through a bit of a personal crisis lately. I'm studying to be a teacher (in Alberta, Canada) and I've been facing the looming prospect of finishing my degree and actually having to enter the workforce....a huge, imposing, very conservative workforce that lives and breathes middle-class, vanilla, straight values.


My insides are telling me that I absolutely refuse to present myself as anything but an open-minded, pan-spiritual, critically-thinking, BISEXUAL woman who does not agree with the monogamous norm. I don't want to be anything else to ANYONE. Not co-workers, not administration, not students, not parents. I want to live my life as an advocate for what I believe in.

Should I? Can I?

Do you?

[Cathy]

Hello, my advice to you is to keep your personal "sexual side" of life completely separate from work. I let a few people know about who I truly was and it came back to bite me. There are (hopefully) people in your personal life that you can share ideas and yourself with, but why bring it to work? At the end of the day, there will be people who simply don't understand or agree with your choices, and when push comes to shove it may be used against you in some context. This is just my opinion; keep it to yourself, be proud, and don't tell others you work with. :(

[bi-robin-calif]

It's never an easy choice to make, especially when a job is at stake. I'm only out to a few close friends--and I don't have that many close friends! Until recebtly I was working in a very uptight atmosphere-all homophobic alpha males.

My situation has changed, and if I get the job I'm hoping to get, the employer even has their own Lambda Lesbian and Gay Employee Association, so maybe, once and for aall, I'll take that Big Step.

I'm finally getting fed up with living a lie.

[skiflydive]

IMHO teaching is the one profession where there are a higher percentage of GLB and possibly even T people AND where most of them are comfortable with others knowing exactly where they stand.

On the other hand - no one needs to know your sexuality except those you are intimate with and whether you are intimate with males, females or both the meeting, introduction, courtship and seduction issues are similar if not the same.

[entropy]

The short answer is: I'm not out. I've had boyfriends, and they, my ex-girlfriend, and my best friend account for the 5 people that know I'm bi. I don't feel like my personality is a "lie," so I don't feel guilty about it, even though it leads a lot of people into thinking that I'm straight.

People are always very conservative when it comes to teachers, and as long as biphobia exists then there's going to be concerns about you teaching. There will be people that campaign against it because they don't want their kids to exhibit the negative behaviors associated with bisexual people.

It's sad, but if you feel like you have to be in a place where you can be yourself I think you'll have to sacrifice a job in teaching or some of the truths about who you are. At least in public.

[zeroboss]

I typically don't talk about it much at work, simply because it never comes up and it's not anyone's business. At the same time, when Jennifer Baumgardner was in town to promote LOOK BOTH WAYS, I wasn't shy about sharing my plans with co-workers when they asked.

Outside of work, I've been vocal about sexual issues - including my own sexuality - for a while now. I reached the same point you did: I decided, "If I can't live as myself and defend what I believe in, then what's the point?"

[Navarana]

be proud, and don't tell others

See...I totally respect that some people feel that they can keep these things to themselves and be proud, but for me personally considering myself proud while just pretending I'm straight (because, by default, if you say nothing you're straight) is a bit of an oxymoron.

I don't know, maybe its because I'm a self-obsorbed, outgoing Aries, but I just feel like if there is this big stigma of silence hovering over one aspect of my life, anywhere, that I can't be myself.

Also, I wonder, what kind of message are we sending to young people who might be homosexual or bisexual or transgendered if, as adults, we aren't willing to admit it. Aren't we just keeping the taboo alive and continuing the oppression?

[TaylorMade]

I guess for me, it's always been that discretion is the better part of valor. I know some people wouldn't like me for my sexuality, but those types would probably find something else to dislike me for if I wern't bi.
The final decision is up to you, but - -in many cases if you have to ask if it's safe to be out, it's probably not.

*Taylor*

[rutgerberit]

IMHO teaching is the one profession where there are a higher percentage of GLB and possibly even T people AND where most of them are comfortable with others knowing exactly where they stand.

Aren't you forgetting the arts? ;) But in all seriousness, I think it depends also on what kind of teacher you're going to be (I didn't see that in your post). Like someone said, if you're going to be teaching younger kids, some parents may have concerns about your "bad influence". :rolleyes: I think it's easier the older the students are (being a university student myself, I don't see how a gay/bi/t professor would be that big of a deal - then again I live in a perhaps more "open" society, in a bigger city in Sweden...) Then again, if people keep hiding, how are we ever going to get over the obsticles that lbgt-people meet? Someone has to break the grounds, you know, and the more people who are open, the more poeple will dare to be open themselves.

As for me, I don't live the way I preach... :( But that is because I'm still so insecure about myself and were I stand that I don't want to bring anything in the public eye before I know for sure. Thing is, I haven't had any experiences with any woman yet, and although I know you don't have to have any in order to define who you are, personally I do. This has been an on going process for me for that past 8-10 years, from the initial "hey, wait a minute, there's something wrong with this picture" to were I'm at now, labelling myself as bisexual on the internet, and searching for women, basically. And later, I'd be able to judge whether I'm actually "more" than simply bicurious or whether it turns out I'm attracted to woman but in the end prefer a straight relationship, you know. (I'm sure this sound a lot more harsh and stupid written out like this than what it's like in my head... :) )

So, although I haven't come out to anyone, I don't try to hide things either. I've had pics of beautiful women (and men) up on my walls when my family's come to see me, I won't hesitat to tell someone if I'm going to some lecture about "gays in history" or whatever, and for years I've openly debated my family's homophobic beliefs and I haven't adapted my speech when around them (meaning, I talk about homosexuality etc with them as something given and as if they were on the same wavelength as I, instead of taking the defencive p o w, you know?). But I think when/if I come out, no one will be really surprised... ;) My bro's gone to the length of asking me; we were out fishing this winter and were talking and joking about god knows what and I said something like: "Peni are so ugly anyway" and he replied with something like "You're not lesbian, are you?" to which I just smirked and said nothing and then he added "But if you are, I can understand why, pussies are so much nicer to look at!" And then we didn't talk anymore about it... :rolleyes:

[bigirl_inwv]

Im completely out at my job. Both about being bi and about the fact that my fiance and I are swingers. It wasn't something I just blurted out..."Hi! My name is Laken and my fiance and I swing!" But when questions arose for whatever reason, I never denied it. So...if my boss wanted to be nosy....she got the answers. If she didn't want to know the true and uncensored answer, she shouldn't have asked the question.
But I work at a radio station and 70% of my day, I'm in an office alone. So...I guess no one could really be offended by my horrid lifestyle. :tong:

[jedinudist]

I'm out online, so I can't totally conceal. Googling my name (as employers and potential employers are known to do) brings up the two Washington Blade articles that I am mentioned in (one with a head shot on the front page), my artist website page with my official coming out announcement as well as every other place my name shows up online.

That being said, I do know for a fact that I have lost a job that I was all but hired for because my potential employer found out about my orientation.

This is a decision that only u can make. Be cautious, but be Proud.

Good Luck!

[Lorcan]

I've been going through a bit of a personal crisis lately. I'm studying to be a teacher (in Alberta, Canada)

I don't know how it is up there in Canada, but here in the US i don't think there's too many "out" teachers. If they are they're fired.
My mother mentioned an Art teacher at the elementary school where she used to work at who she thought was gay, but he didn't go telling everyone.

I know. it's hard. Be out and proud.... and prepared to look for a new job.

They know about me at work... my threesums with friends... my "open minded marriage". They call me whore, slut, and tramp. Some of them are out paying strangers ("massage therapists") for a jackoff, but i'm the one who's a whore for doing it with my friends.

[innaminka]

You said, "if you say nothing, you're straight by default" you're probably quite correct. But then again, your sexuality is your private identity; why do you feel you need to share vociferously. (which is what I feel you're saying.)
I somehow feel walking into the principal's office and saying, "hi, I'm ****** and I'm bi," probably isn't going to be the greatest career move.
What you've got to do is balance your identity against the needs and requirements of your employer.
Personally speaking, and I'm a "practising" bisexual, those people who need to know (hubby, sister, business partner et al) - I've come out to.
Anyone who asks - I tell, unless I deem it totally inapropriate. But neither do I wave a flag.
We have to survive in what, despite our best efforts, can be a rather conservative society.
Again, like most personal dilemmas, you can listen to advice, but in the end, you're the only one who can decide how to act.

I wish you good teaching.

[TaylorMade]

See...I totally respect that some people feel that they can keep these things to themselves and be proud, but for me personally considering myself proud while just pretending I'm straight (because, by default, if you say nothing you're straight) is a bit of an oxymoron.

I don't know, maybe its because I'm a self-obsorbed, outgoing Aries, but I just feel like if there is this big stigma of silence hovering over one aspect of my life, anywhere, that I can't be myself.

Also, I wonder, what kind of message are we sending to young people who might be homosexual or bisexual or transgendered if, as adults, we aren't willing to admit it. Aren't we just keeping the taboo alive and continuing the oppression?

If nothing else, find joy in teaching itself. Most parents just want a teacher that's competent and will teach them skills needed to get by in life. Parents want to retain autonymy(sp!) when it comes to imparting values, like it or not.

Be an example of a GOOD human being, nothing else. We run from labels, but wear them when it suits us. I think you should just strip the labels away, and find what is noble within yourself independent from your sexuality, et al. Everything else will fall into place.

*Taylor*

[FalconAngel]

I would have to agree with keeping your sexuality away from the office.

Everyone does not need to know all of your life or life story. You don't tell everyone all of the details of your life, do you?
Work is one of those that if it doesn't affect your job or your ability to do it, then they need not know. It isn't their business, anyway. They are probably closet s/m afficianados anyway. :)

I am out to my close friends, as well as a few others. My work doesn't know, but then they aren't affected by my sexuality, so they need not know.

You can still stay true to yourself and not out yourself to everyone that you come in contact with.

[DiamondDog]

Outside of work, I've been vocal about sexual issues - including my own sexuality - for a while now. I reached the same point you did: I decided, "If I can't live as myself and defend what I believe in, then what's the point?"

That is how I see it.

I've been out at jobs with bosses who I was close friends with and it wasn't a problem.

But this was more like doing private work for someone, not in an office environment with tons of people who I'd only see in a work environment.

Usually I do get pegged as being queer based on other things, but I don't care.

Let's just say I'm not shy about asking to see someone's tattoos (if they mention that they have them). ;)

[flexuality]

It has been my experience that people are gonna believe whatever they choose to believe no matter how hard we try to defend our own beliefs.

"A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

I have been out of the workforce for some time now....I don't remember sexuality ever being discussed at work tho. Maybe just where I worked...I dunno...

So far Solomon (my hubby) has never been asked at work if he's bisexual.

'course I am at a point in life I guess where I don't really give a rip what anyone thinks of what I believe in anymore! :tong:

But I'm not going to announce everything about me to everyone either. For me, it depends on the person, the situation, etc.

Just because I don't tell everyone I have an autistic daughter, for instance, doesn't mean I am lying about it. For myself, the same goes for anything else, including my sexlife. :)

[Navarana]

So, does a straight person say at work, when asked what they did last weekend "Oh, my husband got really sick and I had to take him to the hospital"?

Can a lesbian say "my girlfriend got really sick..."?, but then she's outing herself.

you say its nobody's business, but straight relationships enter conversations on a daily basis without a second thought. this has nothing to do with offering too much sexual information, its just natural and correct etiquette.

I didn't ask if I should go around talking to everyone about sexual exploits; for some reason we naturally assume that talking about anything related to bisexuality is overtly sexual.

...and again, what about that LGBTQ 12 year old in my class who knows that his straight teachers might mention what they did on the weekend with their husband, but knows that no teachers are like him...it must be unnatural and wrong because nobody talks about it.

[TaylorMade]

So, does a straight person say at work, when asked what they did last weekend "Oh, my husband got really sick and I had to take him to the hospital"?

Can a lesbian say "my girlfriend got really sick..."?, but then she's outing herself.

you say its nobody's business, but straight relationships enter conversations on a daily basis without a second thought. this has nothing to do with offering too much sexual information, its just natural and correct etiquette.

I didn't ask if I should go around talking to everyone about sexual exploits; for some reason we naturally assume that talking about anything related to bisexuality is overtly sexual.

...and again, what about that LGBTQ 12 year old in my class who knows that his straight teachers might mention what they did on the weekend with their husband, but knows that no teachers are like him...it must be unnatural and wrong because nobody talks about it.


I don't know, maybe it's just me, but when I was a kid, I didn't know too much about my teacher's personal lives, straight or gay.When I was young, I didn't assume that what I may have been was "unnatural and wrong" because no one talked about it. I didn't even know one teacher was married until I ran into her husband at a restaurant I worked at.

As to your co-workers, that can be tricky and up until you have tenure at one particular school, discretion is the better part of valor, because you don't know when someone may use what they know of you against you.

As I said before - - find joy in what you are teaching, and the best way you can be an example to a student who may question their sexuality is to be a noble person, open minded and sensitive to all, even the "vanilla, straight, conservative" types.

*Taylor*

[ladymozart]

Hi
I too am a Canadian and a PROUD bisexual but becuase of the conservative values at the school that i teach at (a community college) I decided not to be out.
I am in Ontario and I understand things are even more conservative in Alberta. My employer stated in the job description that they welcomed applications from minorities including people of varying sexual oreintation, but I still felt uncomfortable being out.
I may change my mind in a different teaching situation but right now i dont feel its appropritate to be out to my collegues and students.
Thats my two cents worth.
Do what feels safe to you and as long as you dont put yourself in danger any decision will be the right one.
ladymozart :female: :2cents:

[chook]

How out am I........Ummmmmmm let me see........on a good day I'd say about 7 inches :tong:


Cheers chook :bigrin:

[Lorcan]

So, does a straight person say at work, when asked what they did last weekend "Oh, my husband got really sick and I had to take him to the hospital"?

Can a lesbian say "my girlfriend got really sick..."?, but then she's outing herself.

you say its nobody's business, but straight relationships enter conversations on a daily basis without a second thought. this has nothing to do with offering too much sexual information, its just natural and correct etiquette.

I didn't ask if I should go around talking to everyone about sexual exploits; for some reason we naturally assume that talking about anything related to bisexuality is overtly sexual.



YES! YES! YES! Just my point exactly! All the straight people go around saying that they don't tell me their oriention, so don't tell them mine. But they go around telling it ALL THE TIME! Every time they open their mouth about their husband or wife or girlfriend or boyfriend they are telling me that they are attracted to the opposite sex. But if we do they same thing we will be outted. ('course it would take two dates for us ;) )

[flexuality]

My insides are telling me that I absolutely refuse to present myself as anything but an open-minded, pan-spiritual, critically-thinking, BISEXUAL woman who does not agree with the monogamous norm. I don't want to be anything else to ANYONE. Not co-workers, not administration, not students, not parents. I want to live my life as an advocate for what I believe in.



If this is what you have decided to do, then I say go for it.

It doesn't matter whether or not I or anyone else agrees with it, or whether or not that is the way someone else does it.

Personally I choose a dfferent avenue for how I deal with this issue. I don't look down on anyone who chooses to deal with it in the way you want to.

I also don't see either way as right or wrong, just different is all. :)

[biwords]

My insides are telling me that I absolutely refuse to present myself as anything but an open-minded, pan-spiritual, critically-thinking, BISEXUAL woman who does not agree with the monogamous norm. I don't want to be anything else to ANYONE. Not co-workers, not administration, not students, not parents. I want to live my life as an advocate for what I believe in.


Part of the problem is that your employer won't be paying you to be an advocate on the job. My sense is that if you take the King's shilling, you do the King's business. That doesn't, of course, oblige you to lie about your orientation if asked about it (though even then, you remain free to either spill the beans or to reply along the lines of "Thanks for asking, but that's personal").

Incidentally, some of our American members may be unaware of just how conservative Alberta is. I like the Western provinces, but I imagine that Alberta is the one where you're most likely to end up like Matthew Shepherd. You may ultimately find Ontario more congenial - ?

[shadowsaffinity]

i am a teacher and at least at my school, it would not at all be accepted for me to be myself. i just keep to myself at work and then if i ever have a chance to encourage someone to be openminded, i do, without implying any vested interest.

it sucks and i don't plan on staying a teacher forever. it's just so hard to be myself given the school system and you never know what someone will say or do especially since i'm not tenured yet.