bisexual/ transsexual

[Keliana]

My girlfriend is transsexual. She brings be the best of both worlds. A gal pal by day, and a "boyfriend" (not that she's a boy!) by night.

Anyone here ever been with a transsexual? If so, what are you feelings on dating transsexuals? :female: :male:

[CHOCOLATECITY32]

hey u i have had sexx with a transexual b4 and it is a difference between being a transsexual and being bisexual they do not have sex with women they intend 2 dress like women but they r really men who crossdress i on the other hand as a bisexual love women and men and i also see that trassexuals ppl would just sexx only men but the thing is ur friend is a ts by day and a bf bi night it seems like he is bisexual instead of being a ts. f y i i am confused which is she dating a transexual is what u feel b/c if u asked an actual person they would be judgemental about what u should do and what u shouldn't

[Keliana]

I think you've been misinformed.

Being transsexual and being a crossdresser (or transvestite; the latin word for "crossdresser") are two different things.

A crossdresser is a "MAN" who likes to dress up in womens' clothes. Some are straight guys who just like to dress up in women's clothes and some are bi and like to dress up and play the part of a woman for sex.

A "transsexual" is more a medical term describing those who's gender identity do not match their anatomic sex. In other words, they have the brain (or mind set if you will) of a woman, but the anatomy of a man. Some go through medical and legal process to actually change their sex and legally and medically become women.

A "shemale" is someone who identifies it as a gender within itself. In other words, wants the body of a female, but the genitals of a male. They do not identify as a female and do not wish to have a sex change.

I for one accept (and see) transsexuals as women with a medical anomaly.

I hope this helps clear up the confusion in terminology.

peace and blessings,

Keliana :female:

[flexuality]

I think you've been misinformed.

Being transsexual and being a crossdresser (or transvestite; the latin word for "crossdresser") are two different things.

A crossdresser is a "MAN" who likes to dress up in womens' clothes. Some are straight guys who just like to dress up in women's clothes and some are bi and like to dress up and play the part of a woman for sex.

A "transsexual" is more a medical term describing those who's gender identity do not match their anatomic sex. In other words, they have the brain (or mind set if you will) of a woman, but the anatomy of a man. Some go through medical and legal process to actually change their sex and legally and medically become women.

A "shemale" is someone who identifies it as a gender within itself. In other words, wants the body of a female, but the genitals of a male. They do not identify as a female and do not wish to have a sex change.

I for one accept (and see) transsexuals as women with a medical anomaly.

I hope this helps clear up the confusion in terminology.

peace and blessings,

Keliana :female:

I am by NO MEANS an expert on this issue, but I cringe when I read this.

I know that there are people here so much more educated in this area than me, and apparently YOU.

"itself"?? "women with a medical anomoly"?? Transsexuals are all women??

that's just for starters.....

[deletetacount123]

My girlfriend is transsexual. She brings be the best of both worlds. A gal pal by day, and a "boyfriend" (not that she's a boy!) by night.

Anyone here ever been with a transsexual? If so, what are you feelings on dating transsexuals? :female: :male:

My first ex was a transexual... Female to Male, even completed surgey.
I did not know till after we been dating a few times.... He was 8 years older than me and was pretty picky about the subject.
He only told me cause I asked him to be honest... I didn't want any secrets at all in our relationship....He told me, expecting me to run and scream "freak!!"
But that didn't happen... I just sat there on the couch and asked him to tell me more... educate me to the world of transexuals as I had only known very little before I met him. The more he told me, the more curious and interested I was... and he finally said "Ok, why haven't you ran out yet??"
I said "I love you for who you are... not what gender you are.... its the inside thats more important."

I remember he was a great kisser, excellent cuddler and so much more... I loved him!! But as time went on, we just grew apart.. and agreed to split as it wasn't meant to be.
But I believe certain people come into our lives for a reason.... he was probably to teach me about transexuals. :-)

Today I know he's married and is a stepfather to a young girl. :-)
Me... Im still looking for my right person... if it's a transexual that would be fine with me. :-)

Tasha

[Bi-ten]

Hi Tasha Darlin,

Thanks for bringing your experience to the topic of transgendered people. I cannot speak for anyone else but I feel as if my true spirit is female. Although I enjoy this male body, and other male attributes...there is this other side that needs to be expressed. I know I am not a freak, I believe that God made me the way I am supposed to be, a kind, loving and caring person...just like you hon:)

I know you will find the right person soon, just keep smiling!

Hugs,

Sally

[mike9753]

I am by NO MEANS an expert on this issue, but I cringe when I read this.

I know that there are people here so much more educated in this area than me, and apparently YOU.

"itself"?? "women with a medical anomoly"?? Transsexuals are all women??

that's just for starters.....

Flexuality:
Isn't that a little rough?

Keliana is in a relationship with a person who is Transsexual. They share their own reality, and evidently what Keliana explained is true for them and that influences their view of the world. I am not saying they are right about the world in general or wrong, but it is their view.

I thought we all wanted to welcome new folks on the site and make them feel it is a safe place to share their views. If I were Keliana, I am not sure I'd feel so safe after your response. Again, I am not saying you are wrong, just that your approach could be stand to be a little softer with a new person.:2cents:

I guess I am also surprised because on other posts, you have been very warm and caring and understanding. It sounded very different from you usual replys to issues that you don't agree with.

Mike

[FriedDuck]

My girlfriend is transsexual. She brings be the best of both worlds. A gal pal by day, and a "boyfriend" (not that she's a boy!) by night.

Anyone here ever been with a transsexual? If so, what are you feelings on dating transsexuals? :female: :male:

u lucky that u not with MTF.

MTF can b off deep end, ditzy, VERY insecure, VERY shallow, and VERY self absorbed.

they just up and get on hormones, without talking to doctor or anyone else. sometime on black market where they get hiv. no wonder they fucked up and mental.

also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

[flexuality]

Flexuality:
Isn't that a little rough?

Keliana is in a relationship with a person who is Transsexual. They share their own reality, and evidently what Keliana explained is true for them and that influences their view of the world. I am not saying they are right about the world in general or wrong, but it is their view.

I thought we all wanted to welcome new folks on the site and make them feel it is a safe place to share their views. If I were Keliana, I am not sure I'd feel so safe after your response. Again, I am not saying you are wrong, just that your approach could be stand to be a little softer with a new person.:2cents:

I guess I am also surprised because on other posts, you have been very warm and caring and understanding. It sounded very different from you usual replys to issues that you don't agree with.

Mike

That is the trouble with text isn't it?

The tone (the way it would sound in real life) that you can't see with the words was actually meant to be softly hesitant, not harsh.

I am also aware that there are female to male transsexuals and I found the post a bit presumptuous in stating that only men deal with the issue.

I also pointed out that I am no expert on the subject. I just happen to know someone who I consider a friend that is FTM.

I'm sorry if you felt offended by my reply.

I think Fried Duck, however, HAS been offensive in calling MTF's "fucked up and mental."

[superyumboi]

u lucky that u not with MTF.

MTF can b off deep end, ditzy, VERY insecure, VERY shallow, and VERY self absorbed.

they just up and get on hormones, without talking to doctor or anyone else. sometime on black market where they get hiv. no wonder they fucked up and mental.

also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

"off deep end, ditzy, VERY insecure, VERY shallow, and VERY self absorbed."

that describes 75% of the human race.

"where they get hiv, no wonder they f-cked up and mental"

talk about the pot calling the kettle black. i've promoted/worked at 4 different transgendered clubs in the LA area, giving me a chance to expand my open-minded group of friends and give me insight to understand the lifestyle a bit better.

transsexuals aren't mythological mysterious creatures, they're people trying to live their lives like everyone else. get a clue.

[deletetacount123]

u lucky that u not with MTF.

MTF can b off deep end, ditzy, VERY insecure, VERY shallow, and VERY self absorbed.

they just up and get on hormones, without talking to doctor or anyone else. sometime on black market where they get hiv. no wonder they fucked up and mental.

also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

Im currently in email chats with the nicest MTF Ive ever met!!! (TorontoGuy)

Maybe some don't take it seriously but he sure is... hes nothing like most guys Ive known.

Its not fair to say they all do... and there are a lot of people including men and women who are "VERY insecure, VERY shallow, and VERY self absorbed."

Let someone be who they want to be, who they are inside is much more important than thier gender.

Ive dated a FTM.... I wouldnt mind doing the oppsite and date a MTF if I was given the chance :) Be open, enjoy who you are with... people enter your life for a reason. Beside, you can't help who you fall in love with, it happens cause its suppose to.... to avoid it never works or you'll end up miserable.

Tasha

[deletetacount123]

Hi Tasha Darlin,

Thanks for bringing your experience to the topic of transgendered people. I cannot speak for anyone else but I feel as if my true spirit is female. Although I enjoy this male body, and other male attributes...there is this other side that needs to be expressed. I know I am not a freak, I believe that God made me the way I am supposed to be, a kind, loving and caring person...just like you hon:)

I know you will find the right person soon, just keep smiling!

Hugs,

Sally

Hi Sally :)

You're welcome.
Im happy to share my experiences cause I really enjoyed my time with my first ex :)

Tasha

[flexuality]

Flexuality:
Isn't that a little rough?

Keliana is in a relationship with a person who is Transsexual. They share their own reality, and evidently what Keliana explained is true for them and that influences their view of the world. I am not saying they are right about the world in general or wrong, but it is their view.

I thought we all wanted to welcome new folks on the site and make them feel it is a safe place to share their views. If I were Keliana, I am not sure I'd feel so safe after your response. Again, I am not saying you are wrong, just that your approach could be stand to be a little softer with a new person.:2cents:

I guess I am also surprised because on other posts, you have been very warm and caring and understanding. It sounded very different from you usual replys to issues that you don't agree with.

Mike

Just out of curiousity Mike, is there a rule somewhere that says "Flex must always be soft, warm, understanding and caring?" ;)

Sometimes I am a first rate bitch. :bigrin:

[deletetacount123]

Just out of curiousity Mike, is there a rule somewhere that says "Flex must always be soft, warm, understanding and caring?" ;)

Sometimes I am a first rate bitch. :bigrin:

*whines* But Flexxy... I like you warm, soft, understanding and caring!!!! *hugs soft, warm Flexxy*

[flexuality]

*whines* But Flexxy... I like you warm, soft, understanding and caring!!!! *hugs soft, warm Flexxy*

It's the Vampire in me tonight....... :tong: *hugs Tashy*

[deletetacount123]

It's the Vampire in me tonight....... :tong: *hugs Tashy*

Your a vampire tonight??!?! and your hugging me back... my neck is bare!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Make me immortal my love!!! :) lol

[flexuality]

Your a vampire tonight??!?! and your hugging me back... my neck is bare!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Make me immortal my love!!! :) lol
LOL!!!

Geeesh...and I gotta run......ack! :eek:

[deletetacount123]

LOL!!!

Geeesh...and I gotta run......ack! :eek:

You can't do that :( lol *holds you tightly so you can't run*

[TorontoGuy2007]

u lucky that u not with MTF.

MTF can b off deep end, ditzy, VERY insecure, VERY shallow, and VERY self absorbed.

they just up and get on hormones, without talking to doctor or anyone else. sometime on black market where they get hiv. no wonder they fucked up and mental.

also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

stereotyping by the "straight" society seems to be the biggest complaint by members of all LGBT backgrounds.

it's quite disturbing to see an apparent bisexual on here stating stereotypes for Transsexuals.

i can guarantee you that not ALL transsexuals are exactly like the way you have stated here..

i'm definitely not a ditzy person, nor am i shallow or selfish.. insecure? well perhaps a little bit, but i am becoming more comfortable with myself as each and every day passes.

prone to black market hormones? hell no, any hormone procedure i intend to undertake will be done under strict guidance from qualified medical professionals..

spreader of HIV? gee, certainly not me. i don't go around sleeping with everybody i meet (unlike many others on this site)


>no wonder they fucked up and mental.

well, this has got to be the most harsh judgemental blatant flame i have seen on this board in a long time.. i certainly intend to file a complaint so we can get you outta here.. this comment is clearly in violation of the rules that our dear friend Daisy was breaking last week..

>also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

yah, ok, good one. let's purposely stick out like a sore thumb. let's CHOOSE to be this way.. let's choose to be discriminated against, let's choose to be hated.. gee, i suppose you CHOOSE to be bisexual too then, huh??

>i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

well, you're gonna have to deal with me, at least on this site, because i ain't going nowhere!

personally, i only date people who are NOT stereotypical, superficial, judgemental, and bashful..

overall, i must say that i am extremely disappointed with Fried Duck's post here.. i'd like to think that bisexuals would be more kind, accepting, and understanding, and non-stereotypical towards their other LGBT brothers and sisters, but i guess i was expecting too much..

[deletetacount123]

stereotyping by the "straight" society seems to be the biggest complaint by members of all LGBT backgrounds.

it's quite disturbing to see an apparent bisexual on here stating stereotypes for Transsexuals.

i can guarantee you that not ALL transsexuals are exactly like the way you have stated here..

i'm definitely not a ditzy person, nor am i shallow or selfish.. insecure? well perhaps a little bit, but i am becoming more comfortable with myself as each and every day passes.

prone to black market hormones? hell no, any hormone procedure i intend to undertake will be done under strict guidance from qualified medical professionals..

spreader of HIV? gee, certainly not me. i don't go around sleeping with everybody i meet (unlike many others on this site)


>no wonder they fucked up and mental.

well, this has got to be the most harsh judgemental blatant flame i have seen on this board in a long time.. i certainly intend to file a complaint so we can get you outta here.. this comment is clearly in violation of the rules that our dear friend Daisy was breaking last week..

>also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

yah, ok, good one. let's purposely stick out like a sore thumb. let's CHOOSE to be this way.. let's choose to be discriminated against, let's choose to be hated.. gee, i suppose you CHOOSE to be bisexual too then, huh??

>i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

well, you're gonna have to deal with me, at least on this site, because i ain't going nowhere!

personally, i only date people who are NOT stereotypical, superficial, judgemental, and bashful..

overall, i must say that i am extremely disappointed with Fried Duck's post here.. i'd like to think that bisexuals would be more kind, accepting, and understanding, and non-stereotypical towards their other LGBT brothers and sisters, but i guess i was expecting too much..


*gasp* You upset my TorontoGuy!! :( :( TG, come here. *opens her arms and gives you a nice looooooong cuddly hug* Don't let the meanies get you upset. Im currently working on my email to you :) :)
*kisses TG's cheek* Nobody upsets you... except me of course hehe JK

[TorontoGuy2007]

My girlfriend is transsexual. She brings be the best of both worlds. A gal pal by day, and a "boyfriend" (not that she's a boy!) by night.

Anyone here ever been with a transsexual? If so, what are you feelings on dating transsexuals? :female: :male:

what are my feelings on dating transsexuals? that's kinda like asking: what is it like to date a bisexual? you can't throw us all into the same hat and assume we are all alike.

for the record, "shemale" is a dirogatory term that is generally used to identify transsexuals who are in the prostitution or pornography business.. but in reality, 99% of transsexuals are not in this industry.

most transsexuals simply want to live their lives as the opposite sex for which they were biologically born..

much like sexual orientation, this is not a hobby or choice. this is we really are. it is what their brain tells them they are..

do i desire to physically become a woman just for kicks? heck no.. in fact, many transsexuals never act on their true feelings out of fear of how society treats them. a true transsexual who goes thru transition are among the most emotionally strong people in the world. to have the guts to go thru a very difficult 3-5 years of transition, a lifetime of hormone treatments, and a very expensive sexual correction surgery, well, these people deserve love and respect..

in closing, i've never really felt comfortable with transsexuals being linked into LGBT community.. LGB is about sexual orientation (who we are attracted to).. but transsexualism is about sexuality (who we are). i generally do not see very many similiarities between myself, and most LGB individuals, yet i do my best to learn about them, learn about their issues, etc.. we should all be working together to educate the "Straight" society so we can overcome myths about all 4 of us.... yet it seems there are myths and misunderstandings within our own groups here that need much attention..

[Fire Lotus]

stereotyping by the "straight" society seems to be the biggest complaint by members of all LGBT backgrounds.

it's quite disturbing to see an apparent bisexual on here stating stereotypes for Transsexuals.

i can guarantee you that not ALL transsexuals are exactly like the way you have stated here..

i'm definitely not a ditzy person, nor am i shallow or selfish.. insecure? well perhaps a little bit, but i am becoming more comfortable with myself as each and every day passes.

prone to black market hormones? hell no, any hormone procedure i intend to undertake will be done under strict guidance from qualified medical professionals..

spreader of HIV? gee, certainly not me. i don't go around sleeping with everybody i meet (unlike many others on this site)


>no wonder they fucked up and mental.

well, this has got to be the most harsh judgemental blatant flame i have seen on this board in a long time.. i certainly intend to file a complaint so we can get you outta here.. this comment is clearly in violation of the rules that our dear friend Daisy was breaking last week..

>also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

yah, ok, good one. let's purposely stick out like a sore thumb. let's CHOOSE to be this way.. let's choose to be discriminated against, let's choose to be hated.. gee, i suppose you CHOOSE to be bisexual too then, huh??

>i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

well, you're gonna have to deal with me, at least on this site, because i ain't going nowhere!

personally, i only date people who are NOT stereotypical, superficial, judgemental, and bashful..

overall, i must say that i am extremely disappointed with Fried Duck's post here.. i'd like to think that bisexuals would be more kind, accepting, and understanding, and non-stereotypical towards their other LGBT brothers and sisters, but i guess i was expecting too much..

You get 'em! Toronto Guy, you SO rock!

[TorontoGuy2007]

as Tasha has attested, transsexuals can be among the sweetest, kindest, loving, and respectful people in the world. in a society where i am so harshly judged by so many, when i actually can find some people willing to be non-judgemental and become my friend, you can bet that i will try to be the best friend i possibly can.

Tasha, i congradulate you for being so openminded and accepting of everyone you meet. i'm can only imagine how special it was for your bf when he realized that you weren't going to run away when you learned of his transsexualism. we need more people in this world with your tolerance and your kind, loving heart and soul, and i am honoured to have you as a friend, that's for sure!

[TorontoGuy2007]

*gasp* You upset my TorontoGuy!! :( :( TG, come here. *opens her arms and gives you a nice looooooong cuddly hug* Don't let the meanies get you upset. Im currently working on my email to you :) :)
*kisses TG's cheek* Nobody upsets you... except me of course hehe JK

Aweee, you are such a sweetie! you know how much i love cuddling!

[deletetacount123]

as Tasha has attested, transsexuals can be among the sweetest, kindest, loving, and respectful people in the world. in a society where i am so harshly judged by so many, when i actually can find some people willing to be non-judgemental and become my friend, you can bet that i will try to be the best friend i possibly can.

Tasha, i congradulate you for being so openminded and accepting of everyone you meet. i'm can only imagine how special it was for your bf when he realized that you weren't going to run away when you learned of his transsexualism. we need more people in this world with your tolerance and your kind, loving heart and soul, and i am honoured to have you as a friend, that's for sure!

yep :) It meant A LOT when my 1st ex bf realized I wasn't going to run away just cause he was a transexual.... even if he had told me before we dated, I would still date him.

Transexuals can be loving and caring too. Having a open mind is always important.... you can't control love :tong:

A lot of times its OK to ask if your curious... My then bf told me to ask everything I wanted to know even if it sounded mean... cause you won't learn anything if you don't ASK.
Sometimes you can feel a little uncomfortable but you have to realize sometimes being uncomfortable is just because you don't understand it.... If you really love someone you would do anything to try to learn more, understand it, feel comfortable.

The key to a great friendship and relationship is to always be open and honest :)

[deletetacount123]

Aweee, you are such a sweetie! you know how much i love cuddling!

YA! :)

[FriedDuck]

stereotyping by the "straight" society seems to be the biggest complaint by members of all LGBT backgrounds.

it's quite disturbing to see an apparent bisexual on here stating stereotypes for Transsexuals.

i can guarantee you that not ALL transsexuals are exactly like the way you have stated here..

i'm definitely not a ditzy person, nor am i shallow or selfish.. insecure? well perhaps a little bit, but i am becoming more comfortable with myself as each and every day passes.

prone to black market hormones? hell no, any hormone procedure i intend to undertake will be done under strict guidance from qualified medical professionals..

spreader of HIV? gee, certainly not me. i don't go around sleeping with everybody i meet (unlike many others on this site)


>no wonder they fucked up and mental.

well, this has got to be the most harsh judgemental blatant flame i have seen on this board in a long time.. i certainly intend to file a complaint so we can get you outta here.. this comment is clearly in violation of the rules that our dear friend Daisy was breaking last week..

>also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

yah, ok, good one. let's purposely stick out like a sore thumb. let's CHOOSE to be this way.. let's choose to be discriminated against, let's choose to be hated.. gee, i suppose you CHOOSE to be bisexual too then, huh??

>i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

well, you're gonna have to deal with me, at least on this site, because i ain't going nowhere!

personally, i only date people who are NOT stereotypical, superficial, judgemental, and bashful..

overall, i must say that i am extremely disappointed with Fried Duck's post here.. i'd like to think that bisexuals would be more kind, accepting, and understanding, and non-stereotypical towards their other LGBT brothers and sisters, but i guess i was expecting too much..

hey some ppl are confused and aren't REALLY trans. and are just drag queens/really femme men. they discover this AFTER surgery. Ive seen it happen more than a few times and lots of the "women" here at the red light district in amsterdam used to be boys and some are shemales who keep penis.

i didnt say u have hiv or spread it by being a slut. i said how u can get hiv from ppl who sell black market hormones bcuz they share 1 single needle with tons of ppl they sell hormones to illegally. read my post better.

if u just take hormones randomly u will go crazy and ur moods will elevate and 1 min u laugh and 1 min u get really mad.

if u big on educate ppl why do u want ppl who dont understand u censored or kick off site? u just showing how judgemental u r towards ppl who dont get u.

chill the fuck out. u get 2 offended 2 easily. if u get this worked up by a post online i hate to see u in real life.... :rolleyes:

why r u so shocked at my opinion?

i know trans ppl who r unstable, and the general consensus among lots of gay men, bis, and lesbians is that some trans ppl r confused, mentally ill, and they using surgery and hormones to be something theyll never be.

since its not a real man or real womans body but a male body that had surgery and hormones to try to be a womans body or a womans body that has become mans body only with surgery and hormones. think about it, can trans womans body have baby or does it have eggs/uterus? no, so its not a womans body. likewise with a transmans cock it doesnt produce sperm and woman cant get pregnant.

we do not think sex reassignment surgeries are the best solution for gender identity issues. lots of glbt ppl do not believe in half-baked third sex theories, or the idea that people who say they trans actually need surgery or ever truly become the opposite sex/gender even with surgery.

also we do not think that person should not be taking hormones or surgery until they adult not as kid/teenager and that parent/psychologist that want kid/teenager to do this they r doing child abuse and trying to pressure person 2 be something they not before that person really know who they really are as an adult.

[FriedDuck]

stereotyping by the "straight" society seems to be the biggest complaint by members of all LGBT backgrounds.

it's quite disturbing to see an apparent bisexual on here stating stereotypes for Transsexuals.

i can guarantee you that not ALL transsexuals are exactly like the way you have stated here..

i'm definitely not a ditzy person, nor am i shallow or selfish.. insecure? well perhaps a little bit, but i am becoming more comfortable with myself as each and every day passes.

prone to black market hormones? hell no, any hormone procedure i intend to undertake will be done under strict guidance from qualified medical professionals..

spreader of HIV? gee, certainly not me. i don't go around sleeping with everybody i meet (unlike many others on this site)


>no wonder they fucked up and mental.

well, this has got to be the most harsh judgemental blatant flame i have seen on this board in a long time.. i certainly intend to file a complaint so we can get you outta here.. this comment is clearly in violation of the rules that our dear friend Daisy was breaking last week..

>also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

yah, ok, good one. let's purposely stick out like a sore thumb. let's CHOOSE to be this way.. let's choose to be discriminated against, let's choose to be hated.. gee, i suppose you CHOOSE to be bisexual too then, huh??

>i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

well, you're gonna have to deal with me, at least on this site, because i ain't going nowhere!

personally, i only date people who are NOT stereotypical, superficial, judgemental, and bashful..

overall, i must say that i am extremely disappointed with Fried Duck's post here.. i'd like to think that bisexuals would be more kind, accepting, and understanding, and non-stereotypical towards their other LGBT brothers and sisters, but i guess i was expecting too much..

hey some ppl are confused and aren't REALLY trans. and are just drag queens/really femme men. they discover this AFTER surgery. Ive seen it happen more than a few times and lots of the "women" here at the red light district in amsterdam used to be boys and some are shemales who keep penis.

i didnt say u have hiv or spread it by being a slut. i said how u can get hiv from ppl who sell black market hormones bcuz they share 1 single needle with tons of ppl they sell hormones to illegally. read my post better.

if u just take hormones randomly u will go crazy and ur moods will elevate and 1 min u laugh and 1 min u get really mad.

if u big on educate ppl why do u want ppl who dont understand u censored or kick off site? u just showing how judgemental u r towards ppl who dont get u.

chill the fuck out. u get 2 offended 2 easily. if u get this worked up by a post online i hate to see u in real life.... :rolleyes:

why r u so shocked at my opinion?

i know trans ppl who r unstable, and the general consensus among lots of gay men, bis, and lesbians is that some trans ppl r confused, mentally ill, and they using surgery and hormones to be something theyll never be.

since its not a real man or real womans body but a male body that had surgery and hormones to try to be a womans body or a womans body that has become mans body only with surgery and hormones. think about it, can trans womans body have baby or does it have eggs/uterus? no, so its not a womans body. likewise with a transmans cock it doesnt produce sperm and woman cant get pregnant. so its not a mans body.

we do not think sex reassignment surgeries are the best solution for gender identity issues. lots of glbt ppl do not believe in half-baked third sex theories, or the idea that people who say they trans actually need surgery or ever truly become the opposite sex/gender even with surgery.

also we do not think that person should not be taking hormones or surgery until they adult not as kid/teenager and that parent/psychologist that want kid/teenager to do this they r doing child abuse and trying to pressure person 2 be something they not before that person really know who they really are as an adult.

[Long Duck Dong]

since its not a real man or real womans body but a male body that had surgery and hormones to try to be a womans body or a womans body that has become mans body only with surgery and hormones. think about it, can trans womans body have baby or does it have eggs/uterus? no, so its not a womans body. likewise with a transmans cock it doesnt produce sperm and woman cant get pregnant. so its not a mans body.



its remarks like that, that show the true nature of people

I know a female that was born without a vagina or a uterus... is she a female ??? of course.... its not the uterus that makes a female a female

if a female has a hysterectomy, are they still female ??? of course....

reading thru your posts, it appears that you have a number of issues with trans people.....a lot of your remarks are centered on casting them in a bad light... and thats your choice and your opinion..... but thats also why I love bisexual.com, most of the members are openly supportive of each other and don't feel the need to rip apart different groups in the sexual spectrum... and I am gonna give TG and Tasha a ducking big hug...lol....

[bi-robin-calif]

This is a very interesting topic. I'm afraid I may be seeing things going on here that may not really be happening, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

A lot of the problems I have to face as a man who just incidentally happens to be bisexual is that so much of the rest of society wants to treat me as a sexual identity, rather than as a person. This is crucial to the point I'm trying to make: My identity does not revolve around my sexuality, any more than it revolves around my blues eyes, brown (now greying) hair, or the fact that I prefer wearing jeans, t-shirts and sandals to suits and ties. It's part of who I am, but it isn't who I am.

And I'm sorry to say that while there are a lot of posts I've read in the forum that indicate to me that I'm not the only one who feels this way, there are just as many I've read that give the impression that people are saying "My own sexuality is perfectly normal, but yours is completely sick and twisted and perverted."

Don't we get enough of that from the "straight" world? Look at this thread alone. No wonder people think we're so fucked up.

But it is the pinnacle of hypocrisy to complain about how others treat us because of our sexuality, and then turn around and treat each other even worse.

Threads like this one sicken me. I thought we were above that. I guess I was wrong.

[Bi-ten]

Hugs to you Bi-Robin,

I have found lately that there is a lot more intolerance and stereotyping on the site than one would expect. It is an unfortunate situation, but we should not the misinformed comments of a few ruin all of the positive benefits of having a place where we are able to express our thoughts and feelings.

Big hugs to Toronto Guy for fighting the good fight lol. To answer the question, I have dated a trans-gendered person and it was great, but I have also dated women, men, gay and straight people...and it was great too. People are people, and everyone deserves the be loved and accepted for who they are.

Personally I think I can be a lot of fun, I have no hang ups about toys clothing, or role playing. I am not homophobic nor am I bound by traditional relationships. I can be a soft loving partner, but I can also beat the crap out of an asshole if I need to. All in all, I am probably one hot and sassy date!

Sooo, to address those who would show intolerance I will just encourage you to take a good long look in the mirror, do you really like what you see? I like me, and that's all that matters!

Hugs to all,

Sally

[izzfan]

Unfortunately, I have never actually got to know a transexual person as a friend or had any kind of sexual or romantic relationships with an TG/TS people. but I think they are a great group of people. I mean [as various posts have said before] it requires a lot of courage and self-confidence to go through transitioning and SRS [a sex change]. I am not a transexual myself but I am a TV/CD so I have a vague understanding and interest in trans issues in general.


u lucky that u not with MTF.

MTF can b off deep end, ditzy, VERY insecure, VERY shallow, and VERY self absorbed.

they just up and get on hormones, without talking to doctor or anyone else. sometime on black market where they get hiv. no wonder they fucked up and mental.

also some ppl not trans at all and r just doing it 4 attention.

i prefer not to deal with ppl like this so i only date born women who stay women and men that way too.

Fried Duck, I'm quite shocked by this, I mean we all know the perils of making sweeping generalisations [I only have to refer you to a couple of infamous threads started by a certain induvidual a few weeks ago to give you an idea]. Perhaps a few trans people are like that but the majority certainly aren;t. As I said before, it requires a lot of courage and strength to be trans. Also, there is still a hell of a lot of prejudice against trans people, probably even more so than against bi ppl I guess.


A "shemale" is someone who identifies it as a gender within itself. In other words, wants the body of a female, but the genitals of a male. They do not identify as a female and do not wish to have a sex change.

Keliana, I think you're making a couple of mistakes with this definition, I think you'll find that most people will classify this as transexual. Not all transexuals actually go through with surgery. Anyway, its probably not a good idea to use the term 'shemale' as its kind of mainly used within the porn industry and most TG people don't like being referred to as 'shemales' [or "heshe's" for that matter].

Izzfan :flag3:

[deletetacount123]

its remarks like that, that show the true nature of people

I know a female that was born without a vagina or a uterus... is she a female ??? of course.... its not the uterus that makes a female a female

if a female has a hysterectomy, are they still female ??? of course....

reading thru your posts, it appears that you have a number of issues with trans people.....a lot of your remarks are centered on casting them in a bad light... and thats your choice and your opinion..... but thats also why I love bisexual.com, most of the members are openly supportive of each other and don't feel the need to rip apart different groups in the sexual spectrum... and I am gonna give TG and Tasha a ducking big hug...lol....

Ooooh the ducking big hug!!!! lol
TG is one of the nicest people I know on here and I actually learned more from him too about transexuals :) Wonder what would happen if me and him met in real life..... :)


I agree with the term She-Males.... I always thought She-Male meant a porn star since its often the term used in the porn industry.... But "Trannys" are also used in the Porn Industry as well.

There seem to be so many terms, or labels for Transexuals.... I don't know why people even have labels???
But I think if a person wants to have one then she or he chooses which label they want to be called.

[TorontoGuy2007]

>hey some ppl are confused and aren't REALLY trans.

well, if you are such an expert, then i guess i'll have to believe you..

>if u big on educate ppl why do u want ppl who dont understand u censored or kick off site?

you expressed much more than misunderstanding. you expressed direct hatred and negative judgemental comments.

>chill the fuck out. u get 2 offended 2 easily.

well, your profile says you are here to make friends, well, you're certainly not doing a very good job.... you certainly have me fooled. your posts make it clear that your goal is to declare war on ALL transsexuals, much like the rest of the world seems to do.

>why r u so shocked at my opinion?

because i didn't expect to find such rude and ignorant comments on an LGBT-friendly site. your comments seem directly in line with the stereotypical "straight" society of intolerance.

>the general consensus among lots of gay men, bis, and lesbians is that some trans ppl r confused, mentally ill, and they using surgery and hormones to be something theyll never be.

actually, i think the general consensus around here is that you are quite ignorant and intolerant of others who aren't exactly like you.

>since its not a real man or real womans body
>think about it, can trans womans body have baby or does it have >eggs/uterus? no, so its not a womans body.

what gives you the right to define what a "real" woman is? you are just like straight society. you assume that biology defines our sexuality..

i know lots of GG (biological women) who for whatever reason, are unable to produce eggs or babies.. does this make them "not a woman"? what about women who reach menopause.. are all senior females no longer women because they are unable to bear children any more?? c'mon..

>likewise with a transmans cock it doesnt produce sperm and woman cant get pregnant. so its not a mans body.

once again, what does repruduction have to do with defining one's sexuality or gender role?? are men who lose their testes due to testicular cancer become "former men"?

>we do not think sex reassignment surgeries are the best solution for gender identity issues.

well, much like society doesn't seem to understand or accept that there are people in this world who aren't neurologically straight, clearly seems you are in denial that people can be born transsexual..

but for you to imply that transsexuals "choose" to be this way?? i'll throw the "choose to be gay" arguement right back at ya.. why would anyone choose to be different? why would anyone choose to be discriminated against? why would anyone choose to be part of the most hated and misunderstood group of people in the world?

>and that parent/psychologist that want

i just had a visit with a psychologist and psychiatrist, and they have cleared me.. i have no psychological or psychiatric disorder.. so, this proves that i am not confused or depressed. i am in my right healthy mind when i diagnose myself as a transsexual.. furthermore, this has officially proven, at least to me, that transsexualism is indeed something i was born with....

anyway, in closing, i certainly hope you can learn to be less judgemental of transsexuals and i hope you will stop generalizing your comments..

[FriedDuck]

the point is that if a person isnt born with ovaries or testes or whatever that its biological and surgery like hystorectomey is sometimes medical necessary.

a trans body is not biological or medical necessary and its not like a biological body is ridden with cancer and needs surgery. plus its being greedy paying all that money for body surgery/hormones when it could b used to help homeless ppl or ppl who r starving or who really need medical care but cant afford it.

I dont buy that trans geninals are like the real ones because theyre not. the ones i have seen pics of and the trans ppl ive had sex with u could easily tell that they were not real genitals and that it was surgery.

Theyre cosmetically altered genitals and the surgery/hormones doesn't truly turn a man ino a woman it simply turns a man into a man with breasts and vagina. Surgery/testosterone can turn a woman into a woman with flat breasts and a fake "penis" if she get bottom surgery. Now before u flip out at me for that statements I was told that by a trans person and I agree with him.

some people feel sorry for queers and trans people and aren't REALLY queer or trans but then try to be that way on purpose. i have read article and book written by gay men about how trans ppl are mentally ill and unstable and the ones ive met and become friend with are this way. some are prostitutes, junkies/speed addict, and some are dying of hiv since they inject illegal drugs or some are deffinatley "off balance" and a bit crazy since they just take hormones wherever whenever and from illegal sources.

no i dont want to decare "War" against ppl who arent like me or who are trans but its been proven that a large number of ppl who say they trans arent really trans such as NY Times article about female lesbians who arent really trans but take testosterone anyway, also some ppl just get the hormones and surgery or think about doing this just for something different when they not really trans.

also some ppl who are trans dont even want the surgery or need it. its just an aspect of themselves and even they see that surgery as being fake and that it wouldnt give them a real working biological body of the opposite gender/sex or truely make them the opposite gender/sex even with the surgery, homones, and therapy.

why do u take everything so personal? r u spokesman for ALL trans people or something? dont act like u have all the answers, ur post that u make make u so egotistical and self centered. when did i say that u not trans?

[mike9753]

That is the trouble with text isn't it?

The tone (the way it would sound in real life) that you can't see with the words was actually meant to be softly hesitant, not harsh.

I am also aware that there are female to male transsexuals and I found the post a bit presumptuous in stating that only men deal with the issue.

I also pointed out that I am no expert on the subject. I just happen to know someone who I consider a friend that is FTM.

I'm sorry if you felt offended by my reply.

I think Fried Duck, however, HAS been offensive in calling MTF's "fucked up and mental."


Dear Flexuality:

I was not offended. Just thought you might like to get a bit of feedback on how you sounded in your text. I agree, there is so much lost between what's in our hearts and our ability to express these thoughts and feelings in text.

I guess I was particularly focused on a comment that someone said recently on the Post, "Drew, Is It Time to Weed Your Garden"? that new comers need to feel a part of the community and if we criticize their opinions or find fault with them before they get to know that this can be a safe place to express themselves, we risk losing good people.

I think we live and learn by receiving feedback from others and by engaging in healthy discourse with others, which is why I value this community so much.

As I write this I am becoming aware that another motivation for me is that when I experience someone whith tolerance and understanding, warmth and kindness (and I am referring to you), and I detect that this same person is developing a bit of a "hard edge", I automatically react to try to remind them of the qualities that I have admired in them. In this world, there are too few people who are kind, warm, thoughtful and who have a generous spirit.

But you do make a great point - your entitled to be a off your game at times - we all are.

Mike

[TorontoGuy2007]

new comers need to feel a part of the community and if we criticize their opinions or find fault with them before they get to know that this can be a safe place to express themselves, we risk losing good people.

well, this site is very close to losing me. i'd hate to have to let one bad apple ruin the site for me, but i totally don't understand the double standards that seems to be allowed on here. How is it that critisizing obese women can get you banned, but calling all transsexuals "fucked up and mental" is considered acceptable? that certainly does not sit well with me, and it certainly does not make me feel very welcome or comfortable here.

speaking of obesity, not that anyone should even care about my body weight, but i have no problem with someone critisizing me for my weight. being overweight is something i totally brought on myself. i CHOSE to over-eat and under-exercise in 2006.. so feel free to critisize away! i allowed myself to become a fat pig.. yes, i admit it.

but, the good news is that in the past 3 months, i have dropped 31 pounds, and done so simply by being careful about what i eat and by taking up long distance running.

sadly, my transsexualism isn't something i can lose by healthy eating and running, no matter how much i'd like it to go away. and calling me fucked up and mental certainly isn't going to help in anyway.

[Keliana]

Wow, when I started this thread, it was not meant to start a flame war.

First, let me say that I DO NOT like the term "shemale". It is a derogatory term, HOWEVER, some do identify themselves as "shemales", therefore I listed it. Are they "true transsexuals"? Well, if you go by the definition, no. A transsexual is someone who has gender identify disorder and has a long persistant desire to change their anatomic sex.

Second...Since I have a ts girlfriend, I have been in and around the transgender community over twelve years. I have very close friends who are doctors, gender therapists, police officers, firefighters, chemists, pharmacists, engineers, airline pilots, attorneys and even a former judge who are transsexual. Some have finished their transition and now live fully as women or men. Some are still in the process.

Does this make me an expert? Who defines what an "expert" is? I certainly don't, but I have been qualified as an expert on GID (gender identity disorder) in a court of law, (ala Voir dire for you attorneys out there) and have been interviewed for books on this subject.

Many transsexuals face extreme discrimination in society. Many are unable to find jobs and are forced to go into prostitution in order to make a living. Some cannot afford hormones so they go to the black market to obtain them. As for the so called "unstable emotional ones"? Well, if you're faced with adversity on a daily basis, how would you feel? People do what they have to do in desperate times in order to survive.

To say a woman is not a woman because she doesn't have ovaries or a man isn't a man because he cannot procreate is pure bunk.

You have to factor in, there are many people out there who are born intersexed (formally known as hermaphrodites- another derogatory term towards intersexed people). Some are born with XXY or other various chromosome anomalies. So...are they men or are they women? Or would you consider them a "thing"?? I've heard people refer to transsexuals and intersexuals as such. As stated by another post, some women have hysterectomies or are born unable to bear children.

Keep in mind the female gender IS THE default gender. In other words we all start out female. In very simple terms, the embryo develops and certain "switches" turn off or on, in this case chromosomes XY (for male) and XX (for female). For males, the ovaries drop, creating testicles, the labia fuses becoming the scrotum and the clitoris elongates becoming the penis. I think you get the picture.

The sex change or sex reassignment surgery (SRS) merely reverses the effects (in the m2f case) by shortening the eurethra, creating the clitoris, seperating the scrotum, creating the labia and removing the testicles. Science has not yet been able to reverse the effects of the testicles to become ovaries, but I'm sure some day they will.

Those who live in glass houses should not cast stones. It's appauling to see some of you ( I won't name names) who just can't see the big picture. To mainstream society we're all freaks.... gay...lesbian...BISEXUAL..transgender...intersexed .

Why must people place themselves above others? I just don't get it....sigh. :female: :male:

[Fire Lotus]

well, this site is very close to losing me. i'd hate to have to let one bad apple ruin the site for me, but i totally don't understand the double standards that seems to be allowed on here. How is it that critisizing obese women can get you banned, but calling all transsexuals "fucked up and mental" is considered acceptable? that certainly does not sit well with me, and it certainly does not make me feel very welcome or comfortable here.


Please don't leave the site. You are the kind of person we need around here and wish we had more of. I agree with you about the picking & choosing of what's acceptable and what gets banned. It doesn't make sense. I don't understand it either.If you go though, the 'bad seeds' will have won. I can probably lay bets there are more supporters here than nay sayers of you and/or transexuals in general. Just for one reason or another some of these members are just into jumping into the flames. I for one will have your back, and anyone elses for that matter that gets trashed by ignorant, intolerant, prejudicial bashers/flamers.

[flexuality]

Dear Flexuality:

I was not offended. Just thought you might like to get a bit of feedback on how you sounded in your text. I agree, there is so much lost between what's in our hearts and our ability to express these thoughts and feelings in text.

I guess I was particularly focused on a comment that someone said recently on the Post, "Drew, Is It Time to Weed Your Garden"? that new comers need to feel a part of the community and if we criticize their opinions or find fault with them before they get to know that this can be a safe place to express themselves, we risk losing good people.

I think we live and learn by receiving feedback from others and by engaging in healthy discourse with others, which is why I value this community so much.

As I write this I am becoming aware that another motivation for me is that when I experience someone whith tolerance and understanding, warmth and kindness (and I am referring to you), and I detect that this same person is developing a bit of a "hard edge", I automatically react to try to remind them of the qualities that I have admired in them. In this world, there are too few people who are kind, warm, thoughtful and who have a generous spirit.

But you do make a great point - your entitled to be a off your game at times - we all are.

Mike
Hard edges aren't so bad....crap bounces off hard edges easier! LOL! :rolleyes:

But I do appreciate the kind words. :)

[flexuality]

Reading through this thread and seeing all the "slotting", the labels, the biological terminology....I just gotta say ....huh?

I thought TorontoGuy just seemd like a really nice person.

To be honest (and I really hope this comes out right...) what I see is someone who has a lot of challenges (mostly from having to deal with other people's misconceptions) in their life and who also has a great attitude about that.

And I can also see where that must get tiring after a while.

I see the same great attitude when I read a profile that says "I am TG (or whichever term they've used) and I am perfectly happy with me."

I admire those qualities in anyone, regardless of whether they are TG, bi, straight, whatever.

[deletetacount123]

well, this site is very close to losing me. i'd hate to have to let one bad apple ruin the site for me, but i totally don't understand the double standards that seems to be allowed on here. How is it that critisizing obese women can get you banned, but calling all transsexuals "fucked up and mental" is considered acceptable? that certainly does not sit well with me, and it certainly does not make me feel very welcome or comfortable here.


Jeff, you can't leave :( Cause I said so :) hehe
I would love to say we all should just ignore threads or posters if we don't like them but its hard to do that especially when you notice people you like are replying and you want to read thier stuff. (Like mine for example lol)

I don't always like posts I see but I just ignore them (or if Im lucky, someone else posts what I was gonna say lol) But ya, I don't get it either when someones banned yet someone else starts to post somewhat the same things and don't get banned. :(
But if you do leave your just letting the trolls win :( STAY!
*Me pulls you on the couch and magically ties us both on the couch in a cuddle postion* See? You can't leave now. :)

Im sad to these this thread got into a flame war, I think its fun to talk about transexuals / transgenders :) :)

Flex - TorontoGuy IS a very nice person. Ive gotten to know him very well through email and he knows me well too :)

[Danielle B]

One of the reasons that I wanted to join this board is because several posters here seem very knowledgable about transgender issues. I think it's great that there are cisgendered people who would even open their minds enough to understand that there are some who question something so basic as gender. Most people can't and don't even try to relate to what that's like. The fact that there is the poster here and there who chooses to judge us without knowing the first thing about us (I mean us collectively and as individuals) doesn't make me want to hang out here any less.

I'm looking forward to hopefully making some friends here and sharing my own experiences as I travel my path :)

[deletetacount123]

One of the reasons that I wanted to join this board is because several posters here seem very knowledgable about transgender issues. I think it's great that there are cisgendered people who would even open their minds enough to understand that there are some who question something so basic as gender. Most people can't and don't even try to relate to what that's like. The fact that there is the poster here and there who chooses to judge us without knowing the first thing about us (I mean us collectively and as individuals) doesn't make me want to hang out here any less.

I'm looking forward to hopefully making some friends here and sharing my own experiences as I travel my path :)

Hi Danielle, Welcome to the board :)
*hugs*

[TorontoGuy2007]

>Jeff, you can't leave :( Cause I said so :)

hehe, well if you say so.. lol

>*Me pulls you on the couch and magically ties us both on the couch in a cuddle postion* See? You can't leave now. :)

If there was to be anyone in the world that i would allow to tie me up, it would be you! hehe.. Tasha, if this was a reality, i don't see any reason for why i would want to leave or be untied!

Hmmm, does this mean i should come visit you and bring a rope with me the next time i am in BC? lol

>I think its fun to talk about transexuals / transgenders :)

absolutely. it's good to discuss the issues and help everyone on here learn the truths about transsexuals and to over come the negative myths..

[onewhocares]

With in the last four or five months a dear friend of mine, has let me in on the biggest secret of his life...he wants to be a woman. At the begining, I was confused, but though his patient explainations and trust in me, I have now come to an understanding of what it all means. He has know from when he was a young boy that he was not meant to be a boy. He has spent the last forty years longing to be a woman.

I have had the priveledge of helping him realize his dream. I have,with my meager talents as a makeup person, been able to transform him into the woman he has always dreamed he could be. We spent five wonderful days in Kona where he, for that briefest of times was able to learn to be a women. I never ever imagined the joy you could see in another persons eyes. I watched as he stared in wonder as he looked at himself in the mirror when we were through. He so dreamed of one day being a woman, and that is what he saw for the first time. I felt blessed that I was able to give this joy to him.

I thought that my feelings for my love would disappear, how naivee I was. They infact have grown stronger and much deeper than I ever imagined. I love the person inside and not the package that it is wrapped in.

For those who wish to know more, look on the upcoming events on the home page. It will be a great resourse.


It has nothing to do with sex, but rather gender.


Belle

[TorontoGuy2007]

Please don't leave the site. You are the kind of person we need around here and wish we had more of.

don't worry, i don't plan on leaving, but i certainly feel a little less welcome than i did before this entire thread developed..

being transsexual is not easy. it's certainly not anything i have ever wanted to be.. i feel like i am cursed.. but at the same time, i am a spiritual person and i believe in the concept of a higher power, and i believe this happened for a reason. running and hiding would go against my purpose of life. i feel i am here to help others learn and understand the truth about transsexuals..

i hope the day comes when government and society will take this situation seriously, and not dismiss me and others as being mental cases..

[deletetacount123]

>Jeff, you can't leave :( Cause I said so :)

hehe, well if you say so.. lol

>*Me pulls you on the couch and magically ties us both on the couch in a cuddle postion* See? You can't leave now. :)

If there was to be anyone in the world that i would allow to tie me up, it would be you! hehe.. Tasha, if this was a reality, i don't see any reason for why i would want to leave or be untied!

Hmmm, does this mean i should come visit you and bring a rope with me the next time i am in BC? lol

>I think its fun to talk about transexuals / transgenders :)

absolutely. it's good to discuss the issues and help everyone on here learn the truths about transsexuals and to over come the negative myths..

Ah, no... to tie me up in real life would be AFTER I dated you or anyone for a long time and a strong trust develops :) :tongue:

Although being blindfolded as someone lends me to a room that they made romantic (dinner...etc) would be acceptable hehe

Now back to doing your email so no peeking :) lol

[TorontoGuy2007]

Hi Sally

congrats to you on your recent journey to becoming your true self.

it is so true, we all need to look in the mirror and be happy and accepting of what we see. that is the first step to being able to fit in and enjoy life in this world. positive opinions from others is just icing on the cake..

[DeafF2M]

Oh, man....

Just when I thought I was on one of the coolests forums ever.... well, it still is one of the coolest forums ever. I just thought it was idiot-free. DAMN... just my luck.

I read all of the posts on this subject and I'm more than a bit miffed at fried Duck's comments... guess there's a reason why the name is FRIED Duck.

Genitals do NOT make the person. You may think transitioning is unnecessary, but I do. I would have shot myself if I had not taken then steps I needed to correct my body.

Being a man isn't about having sperm or producing children. Gimme a break. There's plenty of men out there with cocks and balls and... they're sterile.

You say you won't date a TS... well, GOOD. I personally wouldn't get anywhere near you. You flatter yourself.

I am a transsexual man... and to TorontoGuy, kudos,... wish I joined in this argument earlier...

And to Keliana... best wishes to you and your girlfriend. You'll learn all you need to know about her and other TS/TG people with time. I don't blame you for getting some of the terminology wrong.. it's only normal, since the whole thing is so new to you.

So, that said...

HUGS! :bibounce:

[Danielle B]

With in the last four or five months a dear friend of mine, has let me in on the biggest secret of his life...he wants to be a woman. At the begining, I was confused, but though his patient explainations and trust in me, I have now come to an understanding of what it all means. He has know from when he was a young boy that he was not meant to be a boy. He has spent the last forty years longing to be a woman.

I have had the priveledge of helping him realize his dream. I have,with my meager talents as a makeup person, been able to transform him into the woman he has always dreamed he could be. We spent five wonderful days in Kona where he, for that briefest of times was able to learn to be a women. I never ever imagined the joy you could see in another persons eyes. I watched as he stared in wonder as he looked at himself in the mirror when we were through. He so dreamed of one day being a woman, and that is what he saw for the first time. I felt blessed that I was able to give this joy to him.

I thought that my feelings for my love would disappear, how naivee I was. They infact have grown stronger and much deeper than I ever imagined. I love the person inside and not the package that it is wrapped in.

For those who wish to know more, look on the upcoming events on the home page. It will be a great resourse.


It has nothing to do with sex, but rather gender.


Belle

Wow, Belle- to have helped your friend see herself AS herself for the first time is quite a precious gift! I remember that first time was so important for me- it helped me to realize that I will be able to "pass" when I finally transition, and it's a huge confidence boost for me. It would have been awesome to have been able to share that with a close friend. She is quite lucky to have a friend like you!

[FriedDuck]

Trans is a lot like vegetarianism/veganism. Not eating red meat isn't egnough for the no-meaters. Then there's the milk and egg thing, then there's the macro and raw.

You could also compare it to bisexuality, there are some ppl that are married who dont wanna cheat so they just look at porn and they've never been with a person of the opposite gender or theyve only made out with a person of the opposite gender once.

Those trans ppl who choose to only get top surgery or even not to transition at all are frowned upon by those who go through further stages-it can be very competetive and elitest, and ppl who dont get certain surgery/hormones or even dont get these things at all arent considered to be really trans since they haven't gone thru/or arent in transition.

Which is contrary to the whole premise of "BEING TRUE TO YOURSELF"...Craziness.

If ppl want to get cosmetically altered genitals and the surgery/hormones that
doesn't truly turn a man ino a woman it simply turns a man into a man with breasts and vagina.

Or they want Surgery/testosterone that can turn a woman into a woman with
flat breasts and a fake "penis" if she get bottom surgery that's fine with me but I know trans ppl who dont want the surgery or to transition at all and they see it as being pointless since they just see being trans as an aspect of themselves, and how surgery wouldn't really turn them into the opposite gender.

it kinda bugs me that the transgendered people I know live a lie to all but their
closest friends and that the trannies get a pass for staying in their particular
closet while gay and bi men and women get nothing but grief for the same public deception. Passing as the opposite gender to work, to friends, to the family of the girl she/he married ... it's all a serious deception that I somehow feel is not quite right. It's like if you're bi and you marry someone and you don't tell them.

the trannies I know who've gone male to female aren't fooling anyone ... but I know one person who's moved in the other direction, and can sometimes pass as a man.

Transexuals, however, do have issues, both legal and medical, that extend beyond the LGBT social gender role expectation issues that gay men and women do not have, for example, the transexual has additional issues such as what should their legal biological standing be? Can they marry if biologically they are male and female but one has undergone a sex change so for practical reasons they would be two females, for example, marrying. For those already married, none of the 50 states have laws to nullify such marriages because the birth certificates indicate male and female on the birth certificates. There is currently a court case being raised around this issue where a male to female is wanting to be married to another female. This is also an issue that occurs in the penal system. Should they be housed in a male or female prison? Current law dictates because the biological indication on their birth certificate is distinct that takes precident. So the transexual has the issue of getting their birth certificates officially amended. Gays don't have that issue. But, is amending a birth certificate to change one's biological birth gender to reconcile with one's psychological gender and medical sex change ethical?

I personally dont think that it is since you can spend millions of dollars on therapy, surgery, and hormones but it's not REALLY changing a man into a woman or a woman into a man.

I don't think transgender issues are properly lumped in with gay/bi/lesbian issues (as in LGBT).

Linking them perpetuates a false perception that I object to. With us lesbians, gays, and bisexual people we dont really get you (since we're not born in the wrong body or we dont have serious gender issues like sure some gay/bi men and women do drag but that's not a serious gender issue and a lot of it is for fun or for theater) and our sexuality doesnt have anything to do with passing as the opposite gender, and most gay, lesbian, bi people feel bad for trans people but we are ultimately concerned with putting our rights first (such as gay marriage, equal rights for gay/bi people) as we should be doing since we make up a higher percentage of the population than trans people do, and we're not trans.

[FriedDuck]

Trans is a lot like vegetarianism/veganism. Not eating red meat isn't egnough for the no-meaters. Then there's the milk and egg thing, then there's the macro and raw.

You could also compare it to bisexuality, there are some ppl that are married who dont wanna cheat so they just look at porn and they've never been with a person of the opposite gender or theyve only made out with a person of the opposite gender once.

Those trans ppl who choose to only get top surgery or even not to transition at all are frowned upon by those who go through further stages-it can be very competetive and elitest, and ppl who dont get certain surgery/hormones or even dont get these things at all arent considered to be really trans since they haven't gone thru/or arent in transition.

Which is contrary to the whole premise of "BEING TRUE TO YOURSELF"...Craziness.

If ppl want to get cosmetically altered genitals and the surgery/hormones that
doesn't truly turn a man ino a woman it simply turns a man into a man with breasts and vagina.

Or they want Surgery/testosterone that can turn a woman into a woman with
flat breasts and a fake "penis" if she get bottom surgery that's fine with me but I know trans ppl who dont want the surgery or to transition at all and they see it as being pointless since they just see being trans as an aspect of themselves, and how surgery wouldn't really turn them into the opposite gender.

it kinda bugs me that the transgendered people I know live a lie to all but their
closest friends and that the trannies get a pass for staying in their particular
closet while gay and bi men and women get nothing but grief for the same public deception. Passing as the opposite gender to work, to friends, to the family of the girl she/he married ... it's all a serious deception that I somehow feel is not quite right. It's like if you're bi and you marry someone and you don't tell them.

the trannies I know who've gone male to female aren't fooling anyone ... but I know one person who's moved in the other direction, and can sometimes pass as a man.

Transexuals, however, do have issues, both legal and medical, that extend beyond the LGBT social gender role expectation issues that gay men and women do not have, for example, the transexual has additional issues such as what should their legal biological standing be? Can they marry if biologically they are male and female but one has undergone a sex change so for practical reasons they would be two females, for example, marrying. For those already married, none of the 50 states have laws to nullify such marriages because the birth certificates indicate male and female on the birth certificates. There is currently a court case being raised around this issue where a male to female is wanting to be married to another female. This is also an issue that occurs in the penal system. Should they be housed in a male or female prison? Current law dictates because the biological indication on their birth certificate is distinct that takes precident. So the transexual has the issue of getting their birth certificates officially amended. Gays don't have that issue. But, is amending a birth certificate to change one's biological birth gender to reconcile with one's psychological gender and medical sex change ethical?

I personally dont think that it is since you can spend millions of dollars on therapy, surgery, and hormones but it's not REALLY changing a man into a woman or a woman into a man.

I don't think transgender issues are properly lumped in with gay/bi/lesbian issues (as in LGBT).

Linking them perpetuates a false perception that I object to. With us lesbians, gays, and bisexual people we dont really get you (since we're not born in the wrong body or we dont have serious gender issues like sure some gay/bi men and women do drag but that's not a serious gender issue and a lot of it is for fun or for theater) and our sexuality doesnt have anything to do with passing as the opposite gender, and most gay, lesbian, bi people feel bad for trans people but we are ultimately concerned with putting our rights first (such as gay marriage, equal rights for gay/bi people) as we should be doing since we make up a higher percentage of the population than trans people do, and we're not trans.

[deletetacount123]

STOP IT

Im sick of your rude posts FriedDuck......

Yes there are some transexuals that probably aren't nice people but all the ones on this board and the ones I know (or used to know) in real life have all been NICE AND KIND

You have no right saying some of the things you said about the transexuals here.... the way I see it, your personally attacking them and THATS UNACCEPTABLE.

Leave my transexual friends alone.
They are people.... it doesn't matter if they are FTM or MTF, they are just like everyone else... human. Who they are inside is more important than thier genders.

We fall in love and become friends with Transexuals not cause of that but cause we like who they are inside, They are our friends.

((((hugs TorontoGuy, Danielle & the other Posters that posted here)))))

[Bi-ten]

With in the last four or five months a dear friend of mine, has let me in on the biggest secret of his life...he wants to be a woman. At the begining, I was confused, but though his patient explainations and trust in me, I have now come to an understanding of what it all means. He has know from when he was a young boy that he was not meant to be a boy. He has spent the last forty years longing to be a woman.

I have had the priveledge of helping him realize his dream. I have,with my meager talents as a makeup person, been able to transform him into the woman he has always dreamed he could be. We spent five wonderful days in Kona where he, for that briefest of times was able to learn to be a women. I never ever imagined the joy you could see in another persons eyes. I watched as he stared in wonder as he looked at himself in the mirror when we were through. He so dreamed of one day being a woman, and that is what he saw for the first time. I felt blessed that I was able to give this joy to him.

I thought that my feelings for my love would disappear, how naivee I was. They infact have grown stronger and much deeper than I ever imagined. I love the person inside and not the package that it is wrapped in.

For those who wish to know more, look on the upcoming events on the home page. It will be a great resourse.


It has nothing to do with sex, but rather gender.


Belle

One who cares,

I have to say that the name does you justice, this story of love and acceptance is so beautiful...

Thank you for sharing this with us.

Hugs,

Sal

[TorontoGuy2007]

>Trans is a lot like vegetarianism/veganism.

>or even dont get these things at all arent considered to be really trans since they haven't gone thru/or arent in transition.

perception is always in the eye of the beholder. you may not want to accept or consider them as transsexuals, but the good news is that transsexuals aren't trying to gain your approval.. they are just trying to create a body image that they can feel more comfortable with.

>Which is contrary to the whole premise of "BEING TRUE TO YOURSELF"...Craziness.

not all transsexuals feel the need to have SRS. also, some can't afford to have SRS, so they are stuck... in the end, only the individual can decide what really is being True to Themselves..

if you want to consider them as being crazy, then that's fine. you'll never understand transsexualism because you aren't one.

>If ppl want to get cosmetically altered genitals and the surgery/hormones that doesn't truly turn a man ino a woman it simply turns a man into a man with breasts and vagina.

well, the actual definition of what makes a man a man or what makes a woman a woman, well, it doens't really matter. transsexuals don't undergo transition because they are trying to obtain approval or a label from you or others..

>Or they want Surgery/testosterone that can turn a woman into a woman with flat breasts and a fake "penis" if she get bottom surgery

well, if you don't support fake breasts, then i guess this means you are totally against any type of bodily modification. are you against women who have breast enlargement? are you against people who wear make up to alter their apperance.. heck, every time we wear clothing, we could be deemed as having created a fake new image..

>it kinda bugs me that the transgendered people I know live a lie to all but their closest friends

i don't see how it can be a lie. nobody is obligated to wear a label on their forehead that says " i was born with a penis but i don't have it anymore".

most of my friends don't care what is inside of my panties, nor will they ever see or touch what's inside there either.. friendship is about many things, but dealing with my genitals is certainly not something my friends really need to care about.

>and that the trannies get a pass for staying in their particular
closet while gay and bi men and women get nothing but grief for the same public deception.

most of the straight society that i know certainly does not give transsexualism a free pass. even my own family members are dead against the idea of transition.

whether you are talking about one's own personal genitals, or one's sexual orientation. these are personal things. nobody is obligated to publically broadcast this. whether one choses to stay closeted or to tell certain people or if they want to make some sort of global public statement about their sexuality or sexual orientation, bottom line, this is all done voluntarily.. nobody is obligated to declare any of these things to anyone they don't want to share it with.

>It's like if you're bi and you marry someone and you don't tell them.

being bisexual is a state of mind. if one can be happily married, then being bisexual might not play any role or any significance.. i don't see why anyone should feel obligated to reveal something like this, unless they want to discuss adding additional sex partners into their relationship.

>the trannies I know who've gone male to female aren't fooling anyone

this isn't about attempts to fool others. transsexuals transition for themselves, nobody else..


>Can they marry if biologically they are male and female

well, if you are potentially against transsexuals getting married, does this mean you oppose marriage between two biological same-sex individuals?

marriage is supposed to be about love and partnership, not about mixing and matching genitals and/or "fake" genitals.

>none of the 50 states have laws to nullify such marriages because the birth certificates indicate male and female on the birth certificates.

good for the states. why should a marriage be nulified due to surgery? what happens if a woman loses her breasts due to cancer? does this also mean her marriage should be nulified because she is no longer a complete and true woman? what if she gets "fake" replacement breasts? should she be obligated to tell the entire world that her breasts are fake?? is she living a lie if she doesn't do this?

>But, is amending a birth certificate to change one's biological birth gender to reconcile with one's psychological gender and medical sex change ethical?

society puts way too much emphasis on genitilia. why not just label everyone as "human being"?? what about people born with both male and female genitals? should it be unethical for them to identify as one or the other?

as far as the jail issue, well, don't commit crimes and then you won't have to worry about that at all, one way or another.

>I personally dont think that it is since you can spend millions of dollars on therapy, surgery, and hormones but it's not REALLY changing a man into a woman or a woman into a man.

well, if you really feel the need to put either a man or woman label on people, and if you feel that this label should be permanently created based on what genitals they were born with, then that's your opinion. but there is a lot more to people than just genitals..

>I don't think transgender issues are properly lumped in with gay/bi/lesbian issues (as in LGBT).

i agree. there is a big difference between one's own sexuality, and one's sexual orientation.

>Linking them perpetuates a false perception that I object to.

not really sure what this false perception is. i guess what this really comes down to is, well, who decided to link all 4 of us together in the first place?? well, it was straight people! they do consider us all worthy of being lumped together because they all see us as being different or having some sort of sexual differences than those of straight people.

i don't like the fact that T are lumped in with LGB either.. it certainly makes explaining Transsexualism very difficult because people assume it is a sexual orientation issue.

>With us lesbians, gays, and bisexual people we dont really get you

well, that is true.. but at the same time, straight trassexuals don't get LGB's either!

>most gay, lesbian, bi people feel bad for trans people but we are ultimately concerned with putting our rights first (such as gay marriage, equal rights for gay/bi people) as we should be doing since we make up a higher percentage of the population than trans people do.

i think transsexuals face a lot of the same issues, challenges, and stigmas that LBG are dealing with. transsexuals are also fighting for equal rights, the right to marry whomever they want, etc. the only additional issue is dealing with legal issues of having a sex change. i don't see that there is any competition here between LGB and T groups.

and other than you, every LGB person i have known feels happy to have transsexuals lumped together with them on their team as we all fight to gain the rights and acceptance that we still don't seem to have from mainstream society.

if you want to break it down even further, the Gays and Lesbians have a much higher percentage of the community than the Bisexuals do to, so perhaps an arguement could be made to phase out both B and T from the group. but again, that wouldn't make sense as we are all fighting for essentially the same rights and recognitions.

in the end, it's all the same... government really has no business worrying about who we sleep with or who we marry.. furthermore, government really has no business worrying about whether my genitals are real or um, "fake"

LGBT's are all different. i am bisexual and i can relate to that, but the concept of the polygamous life that many lead, well, i can't relate to that at all. but rather than critisize them or express negative opinions, my goal is to accept these people and try my best to learn to understand them.. we are all on the same team here and we are all bonding together because we feel working as a team can get us further..

the sooner we can all get on the same page, the strong a team the LGBT community as a hole will be, and the sooner we can make further progress in achieving the mutual goals and objectives that we have...

[TorontoGuy2007]

Be NICE AND KIND... They are people.... it doesn't matter if they are FTM or MTF, they are just like everyone else... human. Who they are inside is more important than thier genders.

i agree completly. being kind and respectful towards each other here in this site is obviously in everyone's best interest. we are all here as bisexuals to learn and network with each other. the last thing anyone on here needs to be concerned with is my genitals and/or desire to have them modified. this is a website, it is not a sexual activity! and it certainly is not designed to be a transsexual-bashing website.

[Solomon]

Trans is a lot like vegetarianism/veganism. Not eating red meat isn't egnough for the no-meaters. Then there's the milk and egg thing, then there's the macro and raw.

You could also compare it to bisexuality, there are some ppl that are married who dont wanna cheat so they just look at porn and they've never been with a person of the opposite gender or theyve only made out with a person of the opposite gender once.

Those trans ppl who choose to only get top surgery or even not to transition at all are frowned upon by those who go through further stages-it can be very competetive and elitest, and ppl who dont get certain surgery/hormones or even dont get these things at all arent considered to be really trans since they haven't gone thru/or arent in transition.

Which is contrary to the whole premise of "BEING TRUE TO YOURSELF"...Craziness.

If ppl want to get cosmetically altered genitals and the surgery/hormones that
doesn't truly turn a man ino a woman it simply turns a man into a man with breasts and vagina.

Or they want Surgery/testosterone that can turn a woman into a woman with
flat breasts and a fake "penis" if she get bottom surgery that's fine with me but I know trans ppl who dont want the surgery or to transition at all and they see it as being pointless since they just see being trans as an aspect of themselves, and how surgery wouldn't really turn them into the opposite gender.

it kinda bugs me that the transgendered people I know live a lie to all but their
closest friends and that the trannies get a pass for staying in their particular
closet while gay and bi men and women get nothing but grief for the same public deception. Passing as the opposite gender to work, to friends, to the family of the girl she/he married ... it's all a serious deception that I somehow feel is not quite right. It's like if you're bi and you marry someone and you don't tell them.

the trannies I know who've gone male to female aren't fooling anyone ... but I know one person who's moved in the other direction, and can sometimes pass as a man.

Transexuals, however, do have issues, both legal and medical, that extend beyond the LGBT social gender role expectation issues that gay men and women do not have, for example, the transexual has additional issues such as what should their legal biological standing be? Can they marry if biologically they are male and female but one has undergone a sex change so for practical reasons they would be two females, for example, marrying. For those already married, none of the 50 states have laws to nullify such marriages because the birth certificates indicate male and female on the birth certificates. There is currently a court case being raised around this issue where a male to female is wanting to be married to another female. This is also an issue that occurs in the penal system. Should they be housed in a male or female prison? Current law dictates because the biological indication on their birth certificate is distinct that takes precident. So the transexual has the issue of getting their birth certificates officially amended. Gays don't have that issue. But, is amending a birth certificate to change one's biological birth gender to reconcile with one's psychological gender and medical sex change ethical?

I personally dont think that it is since you can spend millions of dollars on therapy, surgery, and hormones but it's not REALLY changing a man into a woman or a woman into a man.

I don't think transgender issues are properly lumped in with gay/bi/lesbian issues (as in LGBT).

Linking them perpetuates a false perception that I object to. With us lesbians, gays, and bisexual people we dont really get you (since we're not born in the wrong body or we dont have serious gender issues like sure some gay/bi men and women do drag but that's not a serious gender issue and a lot of it is for fun or for theater) and our sexuality doesnt have anything to do with passing as the opposite gender, and most gay, lesbian, bi people feel bad for trans people but we are ultimately concerned with putting our rights first (such as gay marriage, equal rights for gay/bi people) as we should be doing since we make up a higher percentage of the population than trans people do, and we're not trans.

It's simply amazing as to how those of lesser knowledge can know how trans people think feel and believe

being that it's very easy to see your own problems in everyone else, i gotta wonder if you're trying to convice us or yourself?

i really don't see anyone else even remotely supporting your arguments fried duck.... so when were you thinking of your sex change? or are you simply expressing penis envy?

BTW, i would love to note that you've made amazing progress with your command of english! in what? at most a month??

gee if that's not like miraculous i don't know what is

[Delilah]

If this stir things up, so be it.
Let's clear somethings up and hopefully you all can understand. I already see that there are those that are educated, or want to learn about Transgender People.

First of all, if we were to get rid of labels, perhaps we wouldn't be at war. Perhaps this planet will be at peace.
However and unfortunatly we have labels.
Gender, Race, Origins, Political parties, Religions, Sexual Orientation, and so forth.
If you really want to know about us, it starts by being open minded. This is
a site where people who are open minded and like minded to meet others, learn about others, and accept others. I have read a lot of posted topics
and read some responses. To tell you the truth, I have never been more
impressed with this site than any other site I had come across.

As a NON OP TSWoman, I will give you my version and hope you all have an understanding what Transgender People is.

Transgender is a one word that is the umbrella. All else falls under it. Transsexual, Trans-women, Trans-men, Cross Dressers, Drag Queens, Drag King, Weekend Warrior, She Male, Lady Boys, Transvestites.
All that is only a term that identifies each individual.
Always remember, TRANSGENDER has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation.
I have a video blog that is very helpful if I maybe allowed to post the link here. Let me know if this is ok.

I hope I haven't upset anyone. I'm here because I am an open minded person that accepts you as you are without any kinds of labels.
If something arise to where I am not sure of about an individual, I will take my time to educate myself and learn about another Human Being.
;)

[Danielle B]

[They are people.... it doesn't matter if they are FTM or MTF, they are just like everyone else... human. Who they are inside is more important than thier genders.

(((( Tasha ))))

That says it right there. In a perfect world, I'd be judged for the person I am, but we don't live in a perfect world :( There are still way too many people who draw their conclusions about who someone is based upon what's on the outside (and that goes for more than just TG people- people judge based on all sorts of appearance factors). One thing that I am making a priority as I move along my path is to fill my life with people who get that we're really all the same underneath those external differences. I just wish those people weren't such rare finds.

[DeafF2M]

I'm suddenly in the mood to fry a duck! Then throw it away... too tasteless for me.

FriedDuck, put quite simply, you don't know shit. Your arguments have absolutely no merit and you're just plain rude.

I am a transsexual man and I didn't transition to meet your approval. I could give a flying fig what YOU think. I transitioned for ME.. nobody else. This is what I had to do to be ME. I couldn't live the other way. You talk about living a lie. Let me tell you something... Trying to live life as a woman was NOT the truth... it's not who I am. I am a man. Transitioning was the means to an end -- I am living MY truth.

As for our rights... Here's my thought -- EVERYone deserves the right to marry, the right to happiness, the right to a good job, the right to a home, the right to be themselves. That's not just a GLB issue or a Trans issue... that's an everybody issue.

You don't wanna deal with TS issues? Stop posting. It's that simple. Just shut up.

[TaylorMade]

At this point, while I'm not sexually attracted to transsexuals, making fun of them and degenerating their condition is unacceptable to me.

So, Fried Duck, please, oh, please, get educated or get bent.

*Taylor*

[TorontoGuy2007]

FriedDuck, put quite simply, you don't know shit. Your arguments have absolutely no merit and you're just plain rude.

I am a transsexual man and I didn't transition to meet your approval. I could give a flying fig what YOU think. I transitioned for ME.. nobody else.

As for our rights... Here's my thought -- EVERYone deserves the right to marry, the right to happiness, the right to a good job, the right to a home, the right to be themselves.

HI Deaf, that was very well put. transitioning is all about oneself. it is about our own sexuality. it has nothing to do with pleasing others.

Perhaps we need to cut our dear friend Ms Duck a little slack here. i read on another thread that she enjoyes being whipped and physcially punished. perhaps she accidently took one too many blows to the head and may be suffering a concussion.

[bi-robin-calif]

one too many blows to the head

...or maybe not enough... :rolleyes:

[DeafF2M]

HI Deaf, that was very well put. transitioning is all about oneself. it is about our own sexuality. it has nothing to do with pleasing others.

Perhaps we need to cut our dear friend Ms Duck a little slack here. i read on another thread that she enjoyes being whipped and physcially punished. perhaps she accidently took one too many blows to the head and may be suffering a concussion.


Interesting that you think of transsexualism as related to sexuality... I think of it as a gender identity issue.. Being a man is WHO i am.. it doesn't matter who I'm attracted to. But, that said, I know there are other opinions besides my own, so I find it interesting to see the different perspectives we have out there...

As for Ms. Duck... being whipped and physically punished is a REWARD in the BDSM world. I should know.. I practice it. I get rewarded with play when I'm a good boy and I get punishment when I'm bad... My punishment? It's simple.. it's either something I hate, or I'm ignored. Usually, i'm ignored completely.

So, i propose we ignore Ms. Duck.... her views aren't credible, as we've obviously seen here. So, why add fuel to her fire? The more we respond, the more she'll go on and annoy us.

:soapbox:

[TorontoGuy2007]

Interesting that you think of transsexualism as related to sexuality... I think of it as a gender identity issue.. Being a man is WHO i am.. it doesn't matter who I'm attracted to. But, that said, I know there are other opinions besides my own, so I find it interesting to see the different perspectives we have out there...

i'm a strong believer that transgenderism and transsexuality are two different things. i also feel that neither has anything to do with sexual orientation.

in my case, i am uncomfortable with both my gender role and my sexuality. i do not like being told to act masculine, hence my transgenderism, and at the same time, the idea of using my penis in any sexual act gives me thoughts of major discomfort and anxiety. furthermore, my sexual fantasies ALWAYS involve me as a female with a vagina, hence my transsexualism..

[deletetacount123]

Im gonna ignore her..... shes very rude and disrespectable.

I love transexuals :) BECAUSE they are just like me, human.
Whats on the inside is important.... something a lot of people seem to forget these days.

DeafF2M.... while Im not a transexual (just attracted to them lol) I am deaf :)
I feel connected to him that way :)

TorontoGuy.... after so many emails.... hours long worth lol I feel connected to you cause I know you so well and you know me :)

Danielle... While I don't know you that well, I do enjoy your posts and hope to get to know you better too :)

So you guys and everyone else on here.... ALWAYS remember there will be nasty people like Ms Duckypoo.... BUT there are a lot of people like ME who are super nice and care about people. :)

Rude People = Bad Karma
Good People = Good Karma

I was taught something today.... but thats another thread but I have learned a lesson today that not all people in this town hate deaf people which I had oringally thought. lol (Ugh! Seemed like that for the longest time!! *is happy now*)

ANYWAY MY ADVICE... just ignore Ms Duckypoop.... I think she got whipped way to many times.

Tasha

[onewhocares]

Toronto, Danielle, Tasha, Flex I admire your support for each other. I, Tasha, like you have gotten to know Jeff and admire him. Slowly, I feel others will will face their own ignorance and insecurities ( as I did) and I know I have learned to embrace the wonderful men and women who struggle to find their inner soul. A journey which may take many a life to to travel, and yet many may not venture ahead.


P.S. Tasha

I do not think that all hate the hearing impared, I think they are just unsure of how to act perhaps, we each need to learn in our own way, but not at the expense of hurting anothers feelings.


Belle

[flexuality]

I'm suddenly in the mood to fry a duck! Then throw it away... too tasteless for me.

FriedDuck, put quite simply, you don't know shit. Your arguments have absolutely no merit and you're just plain rude.

I am a transsexual man and I didn't transition to meet your approval. I could give a flying fig what YOU think. I transitioned for ME.. nobody else. This is what I had to do to be ME. I couldn't live the other way. You talk about living a lie. Let me tell you something... Trying to live life as a woman was NOT the truth... it's not who I am. I am a man. Transitioning was the means to an end -- I am living MY truth.

As for our rights... Here's my thought -- EVERYone deserves the right to marry, the right to happiness, the right to a good job, the right to a home, the right to be themselves. That's not just a GLB issue or a Trans issue... that's an everybody issue.

You don't wanna deal with TS issues? Stop posting. It's that simple. Just shut up.

Go get'em Deaf! :bigrin:

hmmm...I keep wondering if a daisy can be resurrected into a duck.....

Would that be a trans species? LOL!! :tong:

[Frodo]

...@DeafFTM, thanks...thanks a LOT for replying because I was quite speechless...

Sometimes it's freaking me out to read stuff like you get in some of the less nice replies here and think "Ok...so that's what you'll always be seen as"

... not a good thought.



Thanks to all of you lasses and lads supporting and understanding that there's not just two genders on this world :)

[Danielle B]

i'm a strong believer that transgenderism and transsexuality are two different things. i also feel that neither has anything to do with sexual orientation.

I believe that transgender and transsexual are different degrees of the same thing. Both feel discomfort due to the tension between their natal gender and their preferred gender. The difference between the two IMO is what that preferred gender is. And they don't have anything to do with sexual orientation.


in my case, i am uncomfortable with both my gender role and my sexuality. i do not like being told to act masculine, hence my transgenderism, and at the same time, the idea of using my penis in any sexual act gives me thoughts of major discomfort and anxiety. furthermore, my sexual fantasies ALWAYS involve me as a female with a vagina, hence my transsexualism..

That's what I'm trying to deal with right now- 36 years of constant conditioning to "be a man", which as I experienced it meant walk like a man, talk like a man, like "man" things, don't ever show feelings, or better yet, don't even FEEL feelings, etc. It's easier said than done. For the longest time, I felt like I was failing at being a man, and it's taken such a long time to accept that you can't be a failure for being something that you never were to begin with. I still struggle with this sometimes, even now. Being TG or TS is quite the mind**** on so many levels...

[deletetacount123]

Go get'em Deaf! :bigrin:

hmmm...I keep wondering if a daisy can be resurrected into a duck.....

Would that be a trans species? LOL!! :tong:

You know Flex, I thought the same thing lol
Ummmmmmm

[deletetacount123]

P.S. Tasha

I do not think that all hate the hearing impared, I think they are just unsure of how to act perhaps, we each need to learn in our own way, but not at the expense of hurting anothers feelings.


Belle

Belle,
I agree.... I was at my job today, day off but I needed groceries lol One of the girls came up to me and asked if I knew sign langauage :)
I said "A bit, but its hard to sign when you have no one to do it with" and she said to me (and cashier who was listening) that shes learning sign langauage cause of me :) lol
She was trying to do "How are you" but was doing it wrong so I showed her the correct way lol It was fun.
The cashier knew one sign which was "Thank You" so the girl learned a new sign and the proper way to do the other lol
She said she was gonna get me to teach her more and I said ok :)
She did tell the cashier signing is hard :) Not for me but I guess for someone whos never done it before it is.

She had to get back to work so we said bye... but I thought it was interesting....

Showed me how wrong I had been about people around here and the whole "they hate deaf people" thing lol Course there are people who could just be unsure to act.... others like that girl are curious and don't make a big deal out of it, if they want to know me, they come up to me, ask me if I can sign and stuff like that.

:) Happy today lol Im making fast friends there... Its funny, why didn;t I apply for a job there last year and the year before?? Hmph.

Tasha

[TorontoGuy2007]

36 years of constant conditioning to "be a man" ....you can't be a failure for being something that you never were to begin with. I still struggle with this sometimes, even now. Being TG or TS is quite the mind**** on so many levels...

this is exactly how i feel. i can't pretend to be something i am not, any more. 33 years for me, so it almost took me as long as you. definitely going to be a scary future for me, no matter what decision i make..

[TorontoGuy2007]

shes learning sign langauage cause of me :)
Showed me how wrong I had been about people around here

hi tasha, that is awesome to learn that you've made such a good impression on people at your new work. i think anyone that would meet you should immediately realize what a sweet and amazing person you are. deaf or not, you are a great person and a great friend!

[deletetacount123]

hi tasha, that is awesome to learn that you've made such a good impression on people at your new work. i think anyone that would meet you should immediately realize what a sweet and amazing person you are. deaf or not, you are a great person and a great friend!

Actually that girl only seen me once lol (ok maybe she saw me other times and I didn;t see her but we only talked once before... today was the second time)
But its nice Im recongized so quickly by not just her but a couple others. lol
and out of uniform!! :)

Thanks Jeff :)

[BreeIsMe]

I have read all of these replies with interest and amazement. They run the gamut from incredibly sensitive, caring and supportive to downright ignorant--but then again they simply reflect the real world. There is a remote group of people in South America who have a genetic defect that results in a relatively significant percentage of the "boys" turning into "girls" in their teens. I don't know exactly what the defect is but it is interesting that in this culture, the "change" is accepted like a normal thing. The new "girls" are brought into the fold, accepted, and allowed to be who they are without prejudice, etc.

Is this the true mecca?
Certainly as this forum shows, tolerance is not fully adopted here!

Watching with interest


Bree

[TorontoGuy2007]

Hi Bree,

welcome to the site, the majority of this board seems accepting towards transsexuals, there is just the occasional flamer that will come on here and be rude and ignorant

[bi-robin-calif]

Bree, TG's right: we're very accepting of everyone, except bigots and haters--ad they don't last too long.

Some come in, sit down, make yourself comfortable. Might a pour you a cup of tea?

Welcome!

[onewhocares]

Hi Bree and welcome to this very wonderful place,

There are many people here from all walks of life, from all over the globe and from all specutrums of lifes heaven. Most people are great here, I know, because I can tell you from personal experiance having met so many people in person as well as on line. It has been my experiance that all one needs to do is to take a giant leap of faith and tell those around you what is truely in your heart and what your dreams are. I think you may be surprised at what you find the response to be. Most, if not all will accept another for who they are inside and not mearly anything else. I would like to think that I would, but then again, I am just me.

Welcome to our world.....

Belle

[teamnoir]

I do agree with the person who said that you can't really change a male or female body into the opposite gender with hormones, psycho therapy, and surgery.

You're cosmetically altering genitals to make something that resembles and barely functions or passes as a penis or vagina. It's not a big deal that therapy/hormones/SRS don't really change a person into the opposite gender. Even if people want to think that they are passing or are the opposite gender simply because they get all, some, or none of this done.

I’ve never felt so effortlessly masculine as I did talking to an FTM, who wanted to be a man, and was hairy like a man, but so obviously, so tangibly, was not a man, and never would be. When men say they feel like women inside, they may identify with certain female traits, mannerisms, and behaviors and sentiments, but they really have no idea what being a woman feels like. In a sense, it goes back to the idea of–how do they know what a woman feels like inside?

I think part of my aversion to this is the irreversibility of it. I mean, once your sexual organs are gone, they’re gone. That’s the end of that. You can’t change your mind. You can come to regret the decision, but there’s not a thing you can do about it.

There are some people that are not happy after their surgery for many reasons. Some think it will solve all their problems but nothing could be farther from the truth. If they cannot adjust to life before surgery they are not going to adjust after. Then too there are some that fall through the cracks and are probably not TS to begin with, or at least not likely candidates for the surgery but get it done anyway.

We experience our biology, and this informs who we are, it is part of what creates gender. The differences between men and women aren’t completely contstructed, they’re a result of men being men and women being women–the archetypes come from somewhere; they aren’t completely manufactured.

And that’s why I said a transsexual will never really become the gender that person desires.

I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to say that, for reasons unknown, some men begin to think of themselves as more effeminate than other men, and identify with women more. Packs of boys tend to isolate boys that exhibit feminine characteristics, and I think this tends to enhance them in many cases. Because they don’t feel like boys, they start to make a reasonable assumption that they must be more like girls, and begin to sort of subconsciously cultivate an ‘inner feminine.’ I think a lot of homosexual men experience this on some level–becoming more effeminate because of a real or perceived separation from other men. It seems more likely to me that somewhere along the way a transsexual male began to think of himself as more female than male. This is where the psychology of transsexualism comes into play–because it is accepted by many people and celebrated by the GLBT community, the idea takes hold that this person must be a transsexual and there are a lot of other people who feel that way and some sort of ‘natural mistake’ can be altered. I do think the GLBT community encourages transsexualism, or tries to. I also think it would probably be healthier for these people to accept that they are men who may simply have more feminine characteristics than most men. But since they can never really become women, I don’t really know if encouraging transsexualism is the smartest idea.

Coming to terms with the cards you were dealt seems healthier to me, in the gender department, than trying to become another person entirely and be accepted by other people as that new person. It can be done, I think, but it would take one Hell of a constitution and I don’t think most people–no matter what their sexuality–are up to that task.

What I have issues with is the psychology, which is based on a faulty assumption–that gender is purely a construct, and has nothing to do with sex.
This simply isn’t true.

I’m actually reading a book on this at the moment that is fascinating. Even when boys were, due to botched circumcisions, sexually re-assigned at birth and dosed with hormones, despite heavy female socialization, they still grew up to be girls who thought they were boys, and behaved as boys. It’s not just hormones and sex organs–it’s also the brain itself. Men are wired differently than women. Hormones and surgery don’t change that rewiring. Obviously I also take issue with the idea that homosexual men have brains that are wired like girls’ brains (which is one of the assumptions some of the ‘born that way’ research seems to be based on). My real-world observance of homosexual men doesn’t jive with that. Homosexual men still, for the most part, think like men. They just, sometimes, act like women. My hunch, and it’s just a hunch, is that transsexual men are also, for the most part, still wired to think like men. I think people need to figure this out before they go around advising people that they were ‘born the wrong way.’

I don't see how clothing and make up count as body modification. Clothing and make up have been present in ALL societies throughout human history.

As for that tribe in the amazon it's not like you can really call them trans-sexual or transgendered, as these are 20th century western terms and they don't apply to those people. Just like you can't call native people who are "two spirited" transgendered or consider them to be trans-sexual or transgendered either since they're two spirited, not transgendered or trans sexual which are both modern westernized terms from the 20th century.

[TorontoGuy2007]

In a sense, it goes back to the idea of–how do they know what a woman feels like inside?

I think part of my aversion to this is the irreversibility of it. I mean, once your sexual organs are gone, they’re gone.

my belief is that there are female neurological traits in the brain. i'm no expert on the make up of a brain, but i do believe that part of me knows what it is to be female because of that trait. it's obviously another example of the nature vs nurture debate here.. i strong believe, like sexuali orientation, one's sexuality is something we are born with.

for part two, the genitals are not gone, they are just modified. M2F post-ops do have a very real vagina that is capable of being arroused, and orgasms are still possible.. sure we might not have ovaries, but heck, there's more to defining a woman than whether or not she is capable of giving birth.

[flexuality]

teamnoir,

So basically what you're saying is that you don't want to change your gender.

That's great. You don't have to. It's not a problem.

I seriously doubt, however, that those who do, just woke up one morning and said to themselves..."Hey! Today I want to change my gender....sounds like fun..."

I don't pretend to understand what it's like to be a TG person....but I do believe that they understand and quite frankly I admire the courage it takes for someone to talk openly about it here. I have learned a lot, not only about TG issues, but about myself and what courage really is.

Ya know.....I don't like peanut butter, never have. But I sure don't see any reason to go about trying to convince the world of how wrong it is to like peanut butter, just because I don't like it or see how anyone could!

[DeafF2M]

First, lemme say thanks to all the folks who are showing support of trans people and what we go through...

Regarding the recent post about how hormones, surgery and all that don't really make you a man or a woman, blah, blah,... blah, blah... .blah, blah.

Hormones gave me secondary characteristics that were male in nature. My skin changed, my body changed .. I have facial and body hair... all of that.

Surgery got rid of my breasts. I will have surgery to get rid of my uterus and stuff... lower surgery is way out of my price range righ tnow. I don't know that I will ever be able to afford it.

I do NOT miss my breasts, not one teeny weeny bit... Not at all... so, the part about it be irreversible? GOOOODDDDD... I don't want them back. LOL

Look... I am a male. My mannerisms have been masculine since I was a little child. I tried to adopt a more feminine persona to match my birth sex and it was a miserable failure. Hell, my poor mother tried for many, many years to turn me into a girl who actually LIKED being a girl. Well, that didn't work. I have never grasped the idea behind make-up (it's all gunk to me). Purses... junk bags... heels, shoes made from hell.

Gimme a suit, short hair, a masculine chest and a goatee and I'm happy.

whatever yoru name was.. I didn't pay attention to it. I said this before... I'll say it again. I don't give a flying fig WHAT you think. You don't think I'm a man? Whatever. I KNOW I'm a man. It's THAT simple!

Alex L.

P.s. Tasha.. deaf folks ROCK!

[teamnoir]

First, lemme say thanks to all the folks who are showing support of trans people and what we go through...

Regarding the recent post about how hormones, surgery and all that don't really make you a man or a woman, blah, blah,... blah, blah... .blah, blah.

Hormones gave me secondary characteristics that were male in nature. My skin changed, my body changed .. I have facial and body hair... all of that.

Surgery got rid of my breasts. I will have surgery to get rid of my uterus and stuff... lower surgery is way out of my price range righ tnow. I don't know that I will ever be able to afford it.

I do NOT miss my breasts, not one teeny weeny bit... Not at all... so, the part about it be irreversible? GOOOODDDDD... I don't want them back. LOL

Look... I am a male. My mannerisms have been masculine since I was a little child. I tried to adopt a more feminine persona to match my birth sex and it was a miserable failure. Hell, my poor mother tried for many, many years to turn me into a girl who actually LIKED being a girl. Well, that didn't work. I have never grasped the idea behind make-up (it's all gunk to me). Purses... junk bags... heels, shoes made from hell.

Gimme a suit, short hair, a masculine chest and a goatee and I'm happy.

whatever yoru name was.. I didn't pay attention to it. I said this before... I'll say it again. I don't give a flying fig WHAT you think. You don't think I'm a man? Whatever. I KNOW I'm a man. It's THAT simple!

Alex L.

P.s. Tasha.. deaf folks ROCK!
read my post more carefully.
I'm not flaming you.

Basically I'm saying that if you're trans surgery won't actually change you into the opposite gender.

In 50-100 years time who knows what they'll be able to do with surgery/the human body?

[Long Duck Dong]

seriously, does it matter if hormones, or surgery can't totally change a person into the opposite gender...???

it can bring peace to a trans person.... that it..... peoples opinion about what it may or may not do to a person, means nothing.....

years of re constructive surgery to my back, neck, face, head, arms, legs, ribs etc, can't give me the body I want.... which is the body i had before my car accident.... but its whats inside me that is the true me, and now i have a body to match the person inside again.... and not the body of a person that was crippled and broken....

its the same for a trans person.... surgery and hormones, may not turn them into the opposite gender... but the outside matchs the inside.....and so the trans person becomes who they are, on the outside, as well as on the inside...and so they become a lady / male.... then when people like me, see them, and say * you are such a beautiful lady / gorgeous man ...we am adding the icing to the cake for so many trans people, as they have reached a point of contentness in themselves and now others are seeing them as they truly are.....

[Danielle B]

read my post more carefully.

In 50-100 years time who knows what they'll be able to do with surgery/the human body?

Right now, they can implant breasts, create functioning vaginas, remove breasts, even implant penises, there are hormone replacement treatments, methods to remove facial hair, etc. What else does science need to do in order to satisfy your impossible-to-meet criteria of making someone the opposite gender?

[teamnoir]

Right now, they can implant breasts, create functioning vaginas, remove breasts, even implant penises, there are hormone replacement treatments, methods to remove facial hair, etc. What else does science need to do in order to satisfy your impossible-to-meet criteria of making someone the opposite gender?

change the chromosomes from XY to XX (or vice versa), change the brain, and create a vagina that actually works (that menstrates and can carry a foetus) and isn't just a penis cosmetically/surgically changed into a vagina, and create a penis that actually works and isn't desensitized, small, that has real testes that produce sperm, and change a person biologically into the other gender completely.

No my gender requirements aren't "impossible", even if the surgery/implants/hormones that are given to trans people simply don't change them into the opposite gender.

I do think that it's a sham and being VERY dishonest to pass yourself as being a male or female after you've had surgery/implants/hormones since you weren't born the gender you want to become.

Having surgery/implants/hormones doesn't make you biologically male or female these things just cosmetically enhance your body, mutilate your genitals into ones that don't pass as the genitals of the opposite gender or even work as the genitals of the opposite gender.

I'm fine if you want to say that you're trans, a sort of 3rd gender, or something that's not even male or female; but I think that it's wrong to lie about your gender and say that you're biologically male or female when it's
obvious that you're not or that you weren't born that way.

As far as the "having female neurological traits in the brain" I do know men, even heterosexual ones that are like this, and would describe their CNS/thought patterens as being "female", but they're not transsexual or transgendered.

Chill out, I don't care if you think that you're female or male as you can
cosmetically, surgically modify, or mutilate your body however you want to as it's your life and your body.

In the next 50-100 years I gaurentee you that there will be incredible ways of
changing the human body so while we are in the dark ages now in the future I
gaurentee you that you'll be able to change gender completely, chromosomes, brain, and everything else I listed.

I think that routine infant male circumcision is a lot more fucked up, just plain
morally WRONG (as a baby doesn't have consent over his body unlike an adult does for mutilation of his/her body), more deserving of the term mutilation, and scary how routinely accepted circumcision for infants is than cosmetic surgery/hormones are for a small percentage of the population who are
already adults and have consent about doing this to themselves and their bodies.

[Long Duck Dong]

.

I do think that it's a sham and being VERY dishonest to pass yourself as being a male or female after you've had surgery/implants/hormones since you weren't born the gender you want to become.

I'm fine if you want to say that you're trans, a sort of 3rd gender, or something that's not even male or female; but I think that it's wrong to lie about your gender and say that you're biologically male or female when it's
obvious that you're not or that you weren't born that way.

I can see what you are saying there.... and I have to admit, I am divided on my opinion.....

part of me is reacting, cos its saying that a trans person is a liar unless they call themselves by their natural born sexual identity, even if they don't resemble that in appearance and nature

part of me is saying, thats your opinion, and you are expressing it... its up to me if I take offense to it and fly off the handle

part of me is saying, it doesn't matter to me, what others think about a trans person, it matters more, how I see them, and if I see a M2F as a lady and a F2M as a man, then thats all that matters

and part of me is saying, thats the point, no matter what a trans does... people will not let them move past the fact that they were born in the wrong body.....

god I hate having a differing opinion depending on the point of view I see things lol, it takes too bloody long to type it all out

* sighs and goes looking for the whisky bottle *

[teamnoir]

I think it's unrealistic to believe that gender is entirely a subjective expression, and that it's not genetic at all.

Sometimes I get annoyed at how inclusive the GLBTQXYZ community is to the point where it's absurd.

I've heard people say if you're not attracted to black men or don't want sex with them, how you're racist. Or how if you wouldn't have sex with a poz person how it's discrimination which both of these are silly viewpoints.

I think there's a misunderstanding about what we all have in common. Not ALL GLBT people are against heterosexuals or want to be part of an effort to force everyone into a coalition against the hetero majority.

I don't think that trans people should be included since they deal with sex/gender changes and the majority of everyone else who is GLB doesn't.

Trans people get mad when they can't change their name/gender on their legal birth cirtificate before the surgery which is silly since it doesn't really change you into the opposite gender, and there should be some default way of doing it since it's a birth certificate, and it's a legal document issued by the government. I think they should perhaps let them change it if they have a sex change operation; but has it say trans-whatever gender they want to be if they change it.

MTF trans people argue that they're the opposite gender inside but still they're born one gender so how would they instinctively know exactly what it's like to be the other gender? A man or a person in a man's body doesn't intinctively know what it's like to have a vagina, menstrate, have a child/be pregnant, or be female inside a female body. Same goes for an FTM who is trying to be a man.

If someone wants to travel the path of becoming the opposite gender that's OK since it's their life. The path may be fine, but the destination is ultimately unattainable and impossible.

[DeafF2M]

Trans people get mad when they can't change their name/gender on their legal birth cirtificate before the surgery which is silly since it doesn't really change you into the opposite gender, and there should be some default way of doing it since it's a birth certificate, and it's a legal document issued by the government. I think they should perhaps let them change it if they have a sex change operation; but has it say trans-whatever gender they want to be if they change it.

MTF trans people argue that they're the opposite gender inside but still they're born one gender so how would they instinctively know exactly what it's like to be the other gender? A man or a person in a man's body doesn't intinctively know what it's like to have a vagina, menstrate, have a child/be pregnant, or be female inside a female body. Same goes for an FTM who is trying to be a man.

If someone wants to travel the path of becoming the opposite gender that's OK since it's their life. The path may be fine, but the destination is ultimately unattainable and impossible.


I don't think anyone who is trans is saying they are biologically men or women... I think we're a lot more intelligent than you give us credit for. No, an MTF will never know menses, or pregnancy and no, an FTM will never know what it's like to have a fully functioning penis that shoots sperm.

The point of transitioning for ME, anyway.. I can only speak for myself, I did it so that my body is in congruence with my identity. I identify as a man and that is why I had surgery and am taking hormones.... for the simple ability to look in the mirror and finally see ME, the real ME.

Don't you DARE presume to tell me what is and isn't unattainable, by your definitions. Biological influences aside, I am living my life as a man. My name is legally changed to a male name... My driver's license has "male" checked off... The only thing I am missing is my amended birth certificate. For that, I need further surgery, which I'm saving money for. And I don't want a birth certificate that says transgender, for christ's sake, that defeats the whole purpose of transition.

And, why, pray tell is my life as a man a lie? After all, I'm just a guy -- I work, I eat and I sleep just like you do. Ya know... I may not know what it's like to be you. But, I'll tell you one thing.. You sure as hell don't know what it's like to be me.

Oh, by the way... if my transition wasn't so successful, then why don't most people know that I'm trans by just looking at me??

[Keliana]

I think it's unrealistic to believe that gender is entirely a subjective expression, and that it's not genetic at all.


I don't think that trans people should be included since they deal with sex/gender changes and the majority of everyone else who is GLB doesn't.

Trans people get mad when they can't change their name/gender on their legal birth.................................

MTF trans people argue that they're the opposite gender inside but still they're born one gender so how would they instinctively know exactly what it's like to be the other gender? A man or a person in a man's body doesn't intinctively know what it's like to have a vagina, menstrate, have a child/be pregnant, or be female inside a female body. Same goes for an FTM who is trying to be a man.

If someone wants to travel the path of becoming the opposite gender that's OK since it's their life. The path may be fine, but the destination is ultimately unattainable and impossible.

What I'm not understanding here is this......why is it people always associate transgendered/transsexualism with sex? It's not all about having a vagina, a penis, being pregnant or having (or not having) ovaries!

It's about identity. It's about being yourself and interacting in society in a certain role. Having anatomical characteristics are just the icing on the cake, the cover of the book. It's the contents that really matter.

How does one know what it's like to be female or male? How do you know? We are all brought up (nurtured if you will) to be in a certain role. For the many, they adapt to such roles. But for some, it's like a misfire. One's mind thinks more in the pattern of a typical male or female, but their anatomic sex is that of another, hence you have "Gender Identity Disorder".

Take intersex babies for example. A baby is born with either mixed or no genitalia. The parents choose to raise the child in one gender or another. That child is nurtured to be male or female. But as the child grows, he or she (not knowing that he or she was born intersex), feels out of place. A discomfort of gender. Something isn't ticking right. Through exploration one eventually does know they are in the wrong gender.

Now unless you've experienced this yourself or you've been around many people who have gone through this experience, you can never relate. So, don't be so judemental teamnoir. Remember, there are plenty of people out there who don't understand what being bisexual is like, nor do they want to even take the time to understand.

I have a transsexual girl friend. She lives a very mainstream life as a woman and one would never know unless told. She's not promiscous, has values and most importantly a person of character. However there are people out there who would not give her the respect and descency of a human being if they were to find out about her medical history. I for one not only accept her as a human being, but as a woman.

Transsexualism in modern society threaten basic assumptions and truths about gender and religion.

To the average, simple mind, there is a confusion and the destructive labels. It is hard to believe in religious prohibitions when reality itself shows the limits of them. If the word of god is so limited, so meaningless, the universe itself becomes upset for some folks. They find themselves adrift, without answers, forced to think, perhaps for the very first time. They begin to question themselves and their place in the universe, they are filled with nagging doubts.

Scared, confused people can be very dangerous. They can become violent, they can kill. Many transsexuals have been murdered by men that just could not handle the issues they were forced to confront, the doubt they felt, the insecurity they suffered, or the 'Truth' that came tumbling down. These same issues can also lead to other reactions besides murder.

Sometimes the conflict is so severe, that men become convinced that the only way to restore their lost faith is to destroy that which caused it to be questioned. Such men deliberately seek out transsexuals to punish, humiliate, control, or harm them.

Some people are attracted to the taboo and find it exciting. Such folks will find transsexuals desirable only as long as they fit the "shemale" category, (ie- chick with a dick). But what if you've had a sex change and no longer have a dick?

Other folks try very hard to accept the transsexual, but fail at the task, because the conflict between what they were raised to believe, and what they want to be accepting about, is too much. In the end, sometimes the original 'Truth' wins out, especially because society supports it.

So, where do you all stand?

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones. :2cents:

[teamnoir]

I don't think anyone who is trans is saying they are biologically men or women... I think we're a lot more intelligent than you give us credit for. No, an MTF will never know menses, or pregnancy and no, an FTM will never know what it's like to have a fully functioning penis that shoots sperm.

The point of transitioning for ME, anyway.. I can only speak for myself, I did it so that my body is in congruence with my identity. I identify as a man and that is why I had surgery and am taking hormones.... for the simple ability to look in the mirror and finally see ME, the real ME.

Don't you DARE presume to tell me what is and isn't unattainable, by your definitions. Biological influences aside, I am living my life as a man. My name is legally changed to a male name... My driver's license has "male" checked off... The only thing I am missing is my amended birth certificate. For that, I need further surgery, which I'm saving money for. And I don't want a birth certificate that says transgender, for christ's sake, that defeats the whole purpose of transition.

And, why, pray tell is my life as a man a lie? After all, I'm just a guy -- I work, I eat and I sleep just like you do. Ya know... I may not know what it's like to be you. But, I'll tell you one thing.. You sure as hell don't know what it's like to be me.

Oh, by the way... if my transition wasn't so successful, then why don't most people know that I'm trans by just looking at me??

Why shouldn't I tell you that being male isn't attainable?

By my standards, most people's standards, and the standards of biologist/geneticist friends of mine you're not male. Even if you get surgery, take loads of testosterone out the ass, try to pass as acting male, and believe that you're male you still won't ever be male. I'm right too.

You're a biological female who had a mastectomy and takes hormones. I've seen equally butch lesbian-identifying women who somehow feel the need to take testosterone even though they're not transsexual at all.

If you want to take hormones which shorten your life and mess up your body since you're fooling with the ones that you're born with go right ahead. I equate this with smoking cigarettes, sniffing gasoline, or using meth. Natural selection has a way of playing out with people and hormones aren't good for you.

It seems like having a sex change has become some sort of a trend. A sex change is utterly life-altering and when you take hormones, physical changes occur that you cannot reverse. You must understand what you're getting into before you do it. Many people get hormones underground, don't see a therapist, then all of a sudden realize they made a mistake. I have seen it happen many times.

Also, getting all of these things done such as cosmetic surgery doesn't really make you the opposite gender, it doesn't help your self esteem problems, the change has to come from within not from surgery/changing your name/hormones, and having all of these things may make you think that life is 1,000X better or whatever but those things aren't miracles and if you have low self esteem or a lot of self loathing and problems BEFORE surgery/hormones you'll have them afterwards too even if you think that you're the opposite gender because of doing all of that.

As far as the birth certificate thing goes, tampering with a document issued by the government and saying that you're male because of a change of sex/gender is wrong.

I'm sure that a lot of people do know that you're trans but they just don't say
anything about it since if someone is trans, well it's obvious, and they stick out like a sore thumb.

I don't think that trans people should be murdered or that anyone should be punished for how they are. But I fail to see what good grouping trans/intersex people with us GLB people does. It certainly doesn't help GLB rights and most GLB people could care less about trans/intersex people.

I've studied A LOT about gender and it's not simply just a social factor, and I think it's unrealistic to believe that gender is entirely a subjective expression, and not biologic at all.

I can put on drag and makeup, get surgery and hormones and think I'm female but I won't REALLY be female even if I think I am and I get surgery. I'll be a male person in an original male body with a male brain who got cosmetic surgery and took hormones and who wears drag.

[flexuality]

I can put on drag and makeup, get surgery and hormones and think I'm female but I won't REALLY be female even if I think I am and I get surgery. I'll be a male person in an original male body with a male brain who got cosmetic surgery and took hormones and who wears drag.

And THAT is exactly why you can not seem to understand the whole transexual issue.

You identify as 100% male. You have all the male anatomy. You are completely comfortable with being male, it's natural for you. Of course you couldn't imagine wanting to change that. Of course you could not be convinced that you would be female by simply getting surgery and hormones and changing how you dress....because you are NOT FEMALE. You are male. It's not an issue for you....and that's FINE.

For you, doing those things would never MAKE you female...and that is perfectly reasonable.

But I don't think that is the issue for trans people.

What if you, teamnoir, were told that you were in fact biologically female? Think about this for a minute.....what if it was proven to you that your cock was really an elongated clit and that your testicles were really decended ovaries?

The development of genitals in humans start off IDENTICAL and depending on the genetics, develop into either of the above mentioned anatomy, or a combination thereof.

I seriously doubt that you would suddenly change your mind about being male, no matter what you had been told about your anatomy.

Matter of fact, based on your posts, I think you would probably fight tooth and nail against the idea of being a female just because your anatomy was proven to be female.

I really have to wonder where the sense of male/female comes from? It does not appear to come from one's genitals. It does not appear to be based on anatomy.

So, just as hard as you would fight to be male regardless of your anatomy (and you state quite clearly that changing your anatomy to female would NOT make you female), there are others who fight just as hard to be male (or female) regardless of their anatomy too.

[TorontoGuy2007]

MTF trans people argue that they're the opposite gender inside but still they're born one gender so how would they instinctively know exactly what it's like to be the other gender? A man or a person in a man's body doesn't intinctively know what it's like to have a vagina, menstrate, have a child/be pregnant, or be female inside a female body. Same goes for an FTM who is trying to be a man.

If someone wants to travel the path of becoming the opposite gender that's OK since it's their life. The path may be fine, but the destination is ultimately unattainable and impossible.

well, you're obviously taking the nurture side in the "nature vs nurture" debate. the other side of the coin is that people are indeed born with instinctive characteristics that are biological or neurological. it is indeed possible to have a female brain and be stuck with a male body. at least that's the nature side of the arguement.

let's also not confuse gender role with sexuality. gender role is a set of rules that society has created based on biological sex. you could be a feminine male or a masculine female yet not have any issues with your own sexuality.

transgenderism and transsexualism are slightly different. all transsexuals will also identify as transgendered, yet not all transgendered will identify as transsexual.

as far as transsexuals path being unattainable, well, that's not necessarily true. i may desire to be a female, yet as a pre-op transsexual M2F, i am quite happy to know that i won't ever have to deal with menstration cycles or pregnancies.. you don't have to be able to bear children in order to be a true woman. if this is the case, all females lose their true womanly identity in seniorhood based on that standard!

as i have pointed out on this site before, it frustrates me to see bisexuals on here who are intolerant of transsexualism. if anyone should be more open and accepting, i'd like to think it would be a bisexual. you can say whatever you want about transsexuals and create your own rules and standards that vindicate why you feel transsexuals are a scam, a farce, or a confused bunch.. but in the big picture of things, if you identify as bisexual, then to the straight world we live in, you are just as much a scam, a farce, or a confused person than any of us transsexuals are..

i saw your thread about disagreeing with inclusiveness, and i agree, transsexuals do not really belong in the sexual orientation catagory because sexuality is mutually exclusive from orientation, but since the world has chosen to lump us all into one "deviant" catagory, we should try to learn and understand each other, and work towards common goals of fighting stereotypes.

[TorontoGuy2007]

I do think that it's a sham and being VERY dishonest to pass yourself as being a male or female after you've had surgery/implants/hormones since you weren't born the gender you want to become.

do you feel the same way about women who have breast implants or men who have penis enlargements? should they be required to wear a sign that says "beware, if you date me, because i have fake parts"?

what about people that dye their hair? are they also being dishonest and shamming people?

how bout if i clip my toe nails? is that type of modification considered unnatural?

bottom line, it shouldn't really be an issue whether i pass myself as one or another. it only becomes an issue when romantic and sexual relationships become part of the question. but when it comes to developing friendships, or finding a job, i don't see how it really matters what type of genitals i happen to have, and whether or not they have been modified, enlarged, dyed, or whatever..

[teamnoir]

do you feel the same way about women who have breast implants or men who have penis enlargements? should they be required to wear a sign that says "beware, if you date me, because i have fake parts"?

what about people that dye their hair? are they also being dishonest and shamming people?

how bout if i clip my toe nails? is that type of modification considered unnatural?

bottom line, it shouldn't really be an issue whether i pass myself as one or another. it only becomes an issue when romantic and sexual relationships become part of the question. but when it comes to developing friendships, or finding a job, i don't see how it really matters what type of genitals i happen to have, and whether or not they have been modified, enlarged, dyed, or whatever..

A woman getting breast implants, a man getting a penis enlargement, or someone dying their hair are different, than someone saying that they're biologically or even physically the opposite gender just because they dress as the opposite gender, may wear make up, have taken hormones, and have had cosmetic surgery on their genitals.

Cutting nails, women getting breast implants, men getting penis enlargements are simply adding to or changing what's already there and they're not changing their gender at all. They're not claiming to change their gender completely via hormones and surgery.

If you someday get a boyfriend or girlfriend, will you tell them that you were born a male but had all this stuff done to you?

What if your boss or coworkers ask?

Will you lie and say that you were born a woman or will you tell the truth?

[teamnoir]

well, you're obviously taking the nurture side in the "nature vs nurture" debate. the other side of the coin is that people are indeed born with instinctive characteristics that are biological or neurological. it is indeed possible to have a female brain and be stuck with a male body. at least that's the nature side of the arguement.

let's also not confuse gender role with sexuality. gender role is a set of rules that society has created based on biological sex. you could be a feminine male or a masculine female yet not have any issues with your own sexuality.

transgenderism and transsexualism are slightly different. all transsexuals will also identify as transgendered, yet not all transgendered will identify as transsexual.

as far as transsexuals path being unattainable, well, that's not necessarily true. i may desire to be a female, yet as a pre-op transsexual M2F, i am quite happy to know that i won't ever have to deal with menstration cycles or pregnancies.. you don't have to be able to bear children in order to be a true woman. if this is the case, all females lose their true womanly identity in seniorhood based on that standard!

as i have pointed out on this site before, it frustrates me to see bisexuals on here who are intolerant of transsexualism. if anyone should be more open and accepting, i'd like to think it would be a bisexual. you can say whatever you want about transsexuals and create your own rules and standards that vindicate why you feel transsexuals are a scam, a farce, or a confused bunch.. but in the big picture of things, if you identify as bisexual, then to the straight world we live in, you are just as much a scam, a farce, or a confused person than any of us transsexuals are..

i saw your thread about disagreeing with inclusiveness, and i agree, transsexuals do not really belong in the sexual orientation catagory because sexuality is mutually exclusive from orientation, but since the world has chosen to lump us all into one "deviant" catagory, we should try to learn and understand each other, and work towards common goals of fighting stereotypes.

What I meant about "real" women is that you can get all the surgery, hormones, and whatnot that you want, but it still won't change you into the opposite gender completely.

The surgery isn't that advanced to do that and lots of transpeople don't even want it.

You've got a lot to learn. I'm serious.

The GLBT 'community' isn't that open and accepting as it seems. It's even very racist at times.

Just because someone is gay/bi or lesbian it doesn't mean that they're going to be open minded and accepting of everyone and everything queer.

There are A LOT of queer men who are racist and aren't ashamed to tell you. They'll tell you how they don't like asian men or black men and find them to be disgusting or simply ignore men of the races that they don't like or want anything to do with. Or some have a fetish for asian men, latin men, or black men and obsess over it.

Don't get me started on how some queer men treat women or how they hate men who are the least bit femme in their mannerisms or how they look (like if they look feminine), and they don't want anything to do with transmen with their "fake penises and fish cunts" (their quotes not mine).

Most heterosexuals do understand bisexuality, some can understand it better than gay people can. It's transsexuality that heterosexuals don't get.

[Long Duck Dong]

Most heterosexuals do understand bisexuality, some can understand it better than gay people can. It's transsexuality that heterosexuals don't get.

* snorts *..... heterosexuals do understand transexuality....3 of the best therapist / counselors I know... are heterosexuals....and they work well with transsexuals....simply cos they have a totally accepting and unbiased view of people

but this is gonna be a never ending issue.... you are simply not gonna get over the fact that you have a issue with trans people...

the simple fact is regardless of what you say in the forum, trans people will continue to see themselves in the way that they choose.... and you will continue to beat your drum and tell trans people that they can't be what they say they are, cos you don't agree with it

but as long as trans people are able to live in a reality that works for them and they find some aspect of happiness.... then I wish them all the best as they are human, and have feelings, thoughts and emotions.... and a lil smile and hug can go a long way

[Keliana]

Applauds Long Duck Dong

[Solomon]

A woman getting breast implants, a man getting a penis enlargement, or someone dying their hair are different, than someone saying that they're biologically or even physically the opposite gender just because they dress as the opposite gender, may wear make up, have taken hormones, and have had cosmetic surgery on their genitals.

Cutting nails, women getting breast implants, men getting penis enlargements are simply adding to or changing what's already there and they're not changing their gender at all. They're not claiming to change their gender completely via hormones and surgery.

If you someday get a boyfriend or girlfriend, will you tell them that you were born a male but had all this stuff done to you?

What if your boss or coworkers ask?

Will you lie and say that you were born a woman or will you tell the truth?

from my understanding, gender has more to do with belief than anything else... so who are you to tell others what they believe?

you sound like somebody who's just pissed 'cuz you've had others beliefs shoved onto you all your life and ya never took the time to figure out what in fact you do believe, so you overcompensate by telling others what they believe and then judge whether or not it makes any sense to you within your perspective....

sorry 'bout your luck, but belief isn't rational.... it's human and it doesn't fit into yours or anyone else's little categories that you seem to insist on

[TaylorMade]

from my understanding, gender has more to do with belief than anything else... so who are you to tell others what they believe?

you sound like somebody who's just pissed 'cuz you've had others beliefs shoved onto you all your life and ya never took the time to figure out what in fact you do believe, so you overcompensate by telling others what they believe and then judge whether or not it makes any sense to you within your perspective....

sorry 'bout your luck, but belief isn't rational.... it's human and it doesn't fit into yours or anyone else's little categories that you seem to insist on

I don't know, but I noticed that his profile stated that he has Aspberger's. . .not giving him an excuse, but . . .I'd think it would affect his perception of somethings.

Just sayin'.

*Taylor*

[TorontoGuy2007]

i guess the best news is that teamnoir's labels and/or approval of my sexuality is not a major priority in life. you and others can judge transsexuals all you want. bottom line, it isn't gonna make you any friends here in the transseuxal community. if you're so big on labels, perhaps you should get one that says intolerant or biggot and plaster it on your forehead, so transsexuals will realize to stay away from you and not waste their time trying to make friends..

[DeafF2M]

i guess the best news is that teamnoir's labels and/or approval of my sexuality is not a major priority in life. you and others can judge transsexuals all you want. bottom line, it isn't gonna make you any friends here in the transseuxal community. if you're so big on labels, perhaps you should get one that says intolerant or biggot and plaster it on your forehead, so transsexuals will realize to stay away from you and not waste their time trying to make friends..

Friends? with THAT idiot? no thanks. I have no room in my life for intolerant or ignorant jackasses. And Teamnoir is both.

I'm not going to waste my time over this. I started to write out another long argument with that jackass and you know what? Screw it... I'm tired of this crap. Teamnoir simply does not know what's what.

Hugs to everyone else...

[SLIMES]

How do I feel about the idea of being with a transexual?

YUK!

Now before people start calling me a biggot let me explain because there seems to be a minority on this forum who do not understand liberalism. A few months ago i said that my penis was a racist (i.e. I'm just not attracted to black guys). A couple of years ago someone said they found the thought of homosexual sex, a 'sickening thought'. Yet there were people saying that I was a racist and assuming that the individual on TV was a homophobe.

We have got to accept as a group that one persons fantesy will make another perosn puke. I know plenty of people who have slightly strange fetishes. But those people would find it awful to swap fetishes and have to endure what turns others on. I have a fantasy where this guy I really like batters me to within an inch of my life, but I don't expect others to want to gut beaten up.

What I'm trying to say is that people can strongly dislike something sexually but that doesn't mean that they are haters. There seems to be this 'liberal' idea that to accept people, you have to like their preferences. I find the idea of sex with one of my siblings unpleasent but that doesn't mean I hate them. Of course, puting 'YUK' in capital letters is tactless and unnesacery and in a social setting I would be more polite, with a 'that's not really my thing' response.

Let me put it like this. If you were straight and found the idea of homosexual sex 'sickening' would that be reason to ban it or discriminate?Of course not. And to respond to the original comment with 'blacks are sexy' or 'homosexual sex is good' simply isn't true liberalism. Sometimes i think that the people who casually say 'each to his own' are more liberal than those who say oh yeah gay stuff's fine, for the simple reaosn that they realise that freedom's about accepting those differences. There are some liberal activists who are gay black and disbaled. How do we know for sure that they are liberal? After all, their powers of toleration haven't been tested as much as most.

People talk about 'understanding' between different peoples but we have to accept that there are some things that we will never understand? I don't understand the appeal of arses or why someone would want to listen to the 'cheeky girls', but that should be irrelevant.

So the next time someone finds something disgusting, we shouldn't try to correct them because it si simply beside the point.

[flexuality]

I don't know, but I noticed that his profile stated that he has Aspberger's. . .not giving him an excuse, but . . .I'd think it would affect his perception of somethings.

Just sayin'.

*Taylor*
Actually what Sol was saying DOES tend to be more pronounced within the autistic spectrum, of which Asperger's is a part.

Being blunt and straight forward with someone who thinks blunt and straight forward is actually "speaking their language" as it were.

Just sayin' too. :rolleyes:

[teamnoir]

from my understanding, gender has more to do with belief than anything else... so who are you to tell others what they believe?

you sound like somebody who's just pissed 'cuz you've had others beliefs shoved onto you all your life and ya never took the time to figure out what in fact you do believe, so you overcompensate by telling others what they believe and then judge whether or not it makes any sense to you within your perspective....

sorry 'bout your luck, but belief isn't rational.... it's human and it doesn't fit into yours or anyone else's little categories that you seem to insist on

Yeah whatever, stop trying to psychoanalyze me Dr. Phil :rolleyes:

I don't really care if I'm not friends with trans people since I'm not attracted to them in the least.

Yes I do know what I'm talking about in my arguments. I even know trans people who will agree with me on them. Even famous gender studies people I'm friends with agree with me.

I could care less about the cult, clique, or mob mentality at this fourm since I'm not here to hook up and instead I'm here to write.

[flexuality]

Yeah whatever, stop trying to psychoanalyze me Dr. Phil :rolleyes:

I don't really care if I'm not friends with trans people since I'm not attracted to them in the least.

Yes I do know what I'm talking about in my arguments. I even know trans people who will agree with me on them. Even famous gender studies people I'm friends with agree with me.

I could care less about the cult, clique, or mob mentality at this fourm since I'm not here to hook up and instead I'm here to write.

You're friends with all these trans people that you don't really want to be friends with?? How does that work??

Yep....your arguments do apply....just not to most people. There probably are people who agree with you....that doesn't make you right. A handfull of your "friends" doesn't make a majority and doesn't represent most people.

But hey....whatever.....I'm not here to like everyone either.

I am trying to figure out why you would spend soooo much time writing on these forums about something that you claim doesn't attract you in the least.....

[the sacred night]

i'd like to think that bisexuals would be more kind, accepting, and understanding, and non-stereotypical towards their other LGBT brothers and sisters, but i guess i was expecting too much..

Unfortunately, there is ignorance within the LGBT community just as much as outside it. I encounter it as a bisexual who occasionally gets shit from homosexuals, but I don't doubt that many people get even more shit than I do, including transsexuals. I work hard to make the LGBT spaces I am a part of truly inclusive, and make it a point to bring up that bisexuals and transsexuals are there too and make us visible, but I know there are a lot of people doing the opposite. For example, I'm part of my university's Gay-Straight Alliance, and I almost never went to the first meeting because I wasn't sure I'd be welcome as a bisexual. I found I am welcome, although I still occasionally get shit from members of the group. For that reason, I try to be very open about my bisexuality so any other bisexual kid out there knows they are not alone, and even though I'm not trans I try to bring it up frequently that we need to be inclusive of them and not make them feel unwelcome by ignoring their existence. I also try to educate myself as much as possible about transsexuality, because I think it's important to be understanding. A lot of people ignore transsexuals at my university because "there aren't any here anyway." Of course it seems like there aren't, because we haven't created a place where they can be open about it. This is the kind of stuff I'm trying to work against.

To answer the original question, I wouldn't hesitate to date someone because that person was transsexual. A friend of mine put it very well: "My attraction for you isn't based on what's between your legs."

[the sacred night]

we do not think sex reassignment surgeries are the best solution for gender identity issues. lots of glbt ppl do not believe in half-baked third sex theories, or the idea that people who say they trans actually need surgery or ever truly become the opposite sex/gender even with surgery.

also we do not think that person should not be taking hormones or surgery until they adult not as kid/teenager and that parent/psychologist that want kid/teenager to do this they r doing child abuse and trying to pressure person 2 be something they not before that person really know who they really are as an adult.


:eek: WE? Speak for yourself!

[the sacred night]

plus its being greedy paying all that money for body surgery/hormones when it could b used to help homeless ppl or ppl who r starving or who really need medical care but cant afford it.

Well that certainly came out of left field... if that's true, then it's greedy to spend money on anything... greedy of me to own this computer when I could be using one at the library for my school work... greedy of people to own houses instead of tiny apartments... greedy of me to spend thousands of dollars to go to university... almost everything in life is greedy by this logic.

[the sacred night]

Showed me how wrong I had been about people around here and the whole "they hate deaf people" thing lol Course there are people who could just be unsure to act.... others like that girl are curious and don't make a big deal out of it, if they want to know me, they come up to me, ask me if I can sign and stuff like that.

I'm glad you don't feel hated anymore! I have never had a problem with deaf people, went to school with some and was friends with them. I don't know sign language, but would like to learn it. Actually I could understand them most of the time without it, but it would have been nice to use it if it made them more comfortable. I have a friend now who is deaf in one ear and it upsets him a lot when people treat him differently... when people ask him if he knows sign language, he says "I only know one sign" and gives them the finger. He gave a presentation on deafness in our speech class so ppl would understand better.

[the sacred night]

most GLB people could care less about trans/intersex people.

:eek: I certainly hope this isn't the case! It definitely isn't true of me, I care a lot about promoting awareness and acceptance of these and other groups of people, even if I am not part of those groups.

[the sacred night]

[QUOTE=teamnoir]Most heterosexuals do understand bisexuality[QUOTE]

I have not found this to be the case. Most that I know, work with, go to class with, etc. ACCEPT it and aren't rude to me about it, but UNDERSTANDING it is a different matter entirely. I don't think anybody really understands anybody else's sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc, and that's ok. I don't understand what it's like to be anything other than what I am, obviously. I'd love to be able to, but seeing as there's not a way for me to be someone else for a day, it's just not possible to understand what another person's life is like. Thus I just LISTEN and try to understand as much as I can, limited though it is.

[Keliana]

Tact is the ability to describe others as they see themselves.

-Abraham Lincoln

[teamnoir]

You're friends with all these trans people that you don't really want to be friends with?? How does that work??

Yep....your arguments do apply....just not to most people. There probably are people who agree with you....that doesn't make you right. A handfull of your "friends" doesn't make a majority and doesn't represent most people.

But hey....whatever.....I'm not here to like everyone either.

I am trying to figure out why you would spend soooo much time writing on these forums about something that you claim doesn't attract you in the least.....

I meant sexual attraction and online "friendship" at this site.

Just because I'm friends with someone doesn't mean I want to have sex with them.

I'm not attracted to trans people in the least and believe me I did try.

Fake trans "cock" and "cunt" pale to the real thing and simply don't do things like a real penis or vagina can do even if they try to, and they never will.

I honestly could care less what people on the internet, strangers who I'll never ever meet think of me, even if I have seen them on the leather circut before or have friends that know them/know of them. ;)

[Solomon]

Yeah whatever, stop trying to psychoanalyze me Dr. Phil :rolleyes:

I don't really care if I'm not friends with trans people since I'm not attracted to them in the least.

Yes I do know what I'm talking about in my arguments. I even know trans people who will agree with me on them. Even famous gender studies people I'm friends with agree with me.

I could care less about the cult, clique, or mob mentality at this fourm since I'm not here to hook up and instead I'm here to write.

LOL!!! you're hilarious!! you actually think i'm takin' the time an energy to analyze your brain??? hahahahaa!!

i don't give a shit about how much you or your 'friends' think you know

LOL!! you think this is some sort of a cult, clique, or mob??? lemme clarify... someone would actually hafta listen to me... not many if anyone does so there goes your theory on that!! LOL!!!

[Solomon]

How do I feel about the idea of being with a transexual?

YUK!

Now before people start calling me a biggot let me explain because there seems to be a minority on this forum who do not understand liberalism. A few months ago i said that my penis was a racist (i.e. I'm just not attracted to black guys). A couple of years ago someone said they found the thought of homosexual sex, a 'sickening thought'. Yet there were people saying that I was a racist and assuming that the individual on TV was a homophobe.

We have got to accept as a group that one persons fantesy will make another perosn puke. I know plenty of people who have slightly strange fetishes. But those people would find it awful to swap fetishes and have to endure what turns others on. I have a fantasy where this guy I really like batters me to within an inch of my life, but I don't expect others to want to gut beaten up.

What I'm trying to say is that people can strongly dislike something sexually but that doesn't mean that they are haters. There seems to be this 'liberal' idea that to accept people, you have to like their preferences. I find the idea of sex with one of my siblings unpleasent but that doesn't mean I hate them. Of course, puting 'YUK' in capital letters is tactless and unnesacery and in a social setting I would be more polite, with a 'that's not really my thing' response.

Let me put it like this. If you were straight and found the idea of homosexual sex 'sickening' would that be reason to ban it or discriminate?Of course not. And to respond to the original comment with 'blacks are sexy' or 'homosexual sex is good' simply isn't true liberalism. Sometimes i think that the people who casually say 'each to his own' are more liberal than those who say oh yeah gay stuff's fine, for the simple reaosn that they realise that freedom's about accepting those differences. There are some liberal activists who are gay black and disbaled. How do we know for sure that they are liberal? After all, their powers of toleration haven't been tested as much as most.

People talk about 'understanding' between different peoples but we have to accept that there are some things that we will never understand? I don't understand the appeal of arses or why someone would want to listen to the 'cheeky girls', but that should be irrelevant.

So the next time someone finds something disgusting, we shouldn't try to correct them because it si simply beside the point.

so stop trying to correct me for finding his posts to be disgusting :cool:

[DeafF2M]

I'm glad you don't feel hated anymore! I have never had a problem with deaf people, went to school with some and was friends with them. I don't know sign language, but would like to learn it. Actually I could understand them most of the time without it, but it would have been nice to use it if it made them more comfortable. I have a friend now who is deaf in one ear and it upsets him a lot when people treat him differently... when people ask him if he knows sign language, he says "I only know one sign" and gives them the finger. He gave a presentation on deafness in our speech class so ppl would understand better.


Uh... your friend flipping the finger suggests to me an angry reaction over a very simple question that could have been tactfully answered with a "no."

I'm sorry, but this touched a nerve with me. I am deaf and I grew up without sign language. I learned it when I went to Gallaudet University. Now, I'm very happy to say that I have gone from the left-out, isolated deaf kid with few friends to a very sociable and very active Deaf person with many, many Deaf and hard of hearing friends.

I still have my hearing friends and I still work in a hearing world, so I do still speak and attempt to lipread.

I don't have an issue with people who don't want to learn ASL, but I do have an issue with people who flip the bird over the very subject.