Questions regarding bisexuality and exclusivity

[gentlepen9]

(I really hope that most here will be able to bare a different perspective on things.)

I've been a member here for about eight months now and in being a part of this community I have read various posts where individuals are frustrated
about being in a relationship but wanting to explore their same-sex attractions while maintaining that relationship. Many lament about not wanting to
lose their significant other but feel like they are cutting off a part of themselves by not being able to engage in any same-sex activities. I can completely identify with the feeling being bisexual and married myself. But it causes me to wonder are we somehow expecting that because we are bisexual our relationships should be any different from anyone elses? I mean why should our spouses/partners give us leeway to explore these attractions simply because we're bisexual? Most, maybe not all, but most people enter into relationships with exclusivity in mind. Most, certainly not all, but most are ready to take on the challenge of forsaking all others to be with us and here we come saying "Well I really love you and want to be with you but I need the freedom to satisfy my same-sex desires." If you honestly look at it what's being asked is to have sex with someone else on the side. How does this not feed into the assumptions that bisexuals "are greedy", "need to have both", "can't be monogamous", "are sex crazy" or "selfish"? If we were straight or gay would we expect to have the same kind of leeway? Think about it, a straight woman goes to her straight husband and says "Sweetie you know I really love you and you mean the world to me but there's this guy at work who is attracted to me and I find him attractive too would you mind if we had a threesome? Or if you're not into that could I explore what it's like to have sex with him?" It sounds absurd. We would think she's crazy for even mentioning it to her husband but can we say that if she were bisexual that it would make the situation more understandable? Actually, other than being attracted to both genders is being bisexual any different than being straight or gay? Does it somehow automatically change the general expectations of a relationship? Could it be that maybe as bisexuals we make such a big deal out of our same sex attractions that we fail to see our struggles aren't that much different from anyone else who struggles to maintain a exclusive relationship. Temptation is temptation regardless of your orientation. We will always find other people attractive but should being bisexual automatically excuse us from the exclusivity that most people expect in a relationship?

[littlerayofsunshine]

Marriage is a contract. One that is shared between two people that are in love. I remember vowing to love, honor, and cherish my spouse, and he said the same for me. And no where in the vows did it state, to not have outside sexual relations. Marriage is the contract, the relationship defined by the two people involved. Not society or religion. Now I do not agree that sexual relations outside of the marriage should be behind the other person's back. But if it has been discussed and agreed apon. And sometimes, as in my situation, my spouse encouraged me. I see nothing wrong.

There are such lifestyles, being swingers and having open marriages, where a straight woman can tell her straight husband that she wants to sleep with a really hot guy and vice versa... To each their own I say.

As I said, the relationship itself is defined by the two/ (or these days) more individuals.

[yoyo4u]

Marriage is a contract..... I see nothing wrong.


Kudos littleray, absolutely!

I wonder were you were when I got married.
My wife will never step off the beaten path, so as it stands I'll live my married life happily ever after.

If I'd insist, I'd end up with a contract on me first.

yoyo
:cool:

[but that's my name!!]

I agree completely. Thank you for pointing this out. :) :flag3:

[Lorcan]

I think you are right GentlePen. We are not that special. We do not deserve special treatment.

However there is one little thing that make our case different. Many of the people on here got married or committed before they were fully aware of bisexual nature. If they had known when they were young, they would have tried out both sexes, and would be fully content with there sexual exploration when they got married.

Seems a lot of spouses of Bi's on here understand...it's no fun to be a virgin (with respect to one sex) and wondering what it's like all your life.

[happyjoe68]

I think most, if not all, of Gentlepen's comment's are true. However, I suppose it is a question of how you view your own bisexuality, whether its an emotional or sexual urge.

When I say this, I mean is it just about accepting yourself (emotional) or wanting to have sex with others (sexual)? For me, its primarily the former, with the latter in second place - I couldnt have sex with others until I had accepted myself as a bisexual man. I dont feel the urge to have a relationship or sex with another person besides the person I'm with now. That might change in the future, but thats as maybe. I'm comfortable where I am in my life and the person who is in it, and thats all that matters.

[tommyswing]

(I really hope that most here will be able to bare a different perspective on things.)

I've been a member here for about eight months now and in being a part of this community I have read various posts where individuals are frustrated
about being in a relationship but wanting to explore their same-sex attractions while maintaining that relationship. Many lament about not wanting to
lose their significant other but feel like they are cutting off a part of themselves by not being able to engage in any same-sex activities. I can completely identify with the feeling being bisexual and married myself. But it causes me to wonder are we somehow expecting that because we are bisexual our relationships should be any different from anyone elses? I mean why should our spouses/partners give us leeway to explore these attractions simply because we're bisexual? Most, maybe not all, but most people enter into relationships with exclusivity in mind. Most, certainly not all, but most are ready to take on the challenge of forsaking all others to be with us and here we come saying "Well I really love you and want to be with you but I need the freedom to satisfy my same-sex desires." If you honestly look at it what's being asked is to have sex with someone else on the side. How does this not feed into the assumptions that bisexuals "are greedy", "need to have both", "can't be monogamous", "are sex crazy" or "selfish"? If we were straight or gay would we expect to have the same kind of leeway? Think about it, a straight woman goes to her straight husband and says "Sweetie you know I really love you and you mean the world to me but there's this guy at work who is attracted to me and I find him attractive too would you mind if we had a threesome? Or if you're not into that could I explore what it's like to have sex with him?" It sounds absurd. We would think she's crazy for even mentioning it to her husband but can we say that if she were bisexual that it would make the situation more understandable? Actually, other than being attracted to both genders is being bisexual any different than being straight or gay? Does it somehow automatically change the general expectations of a relationship? Could it be that maybe as bisexuals we make such a big deal out of our same sex attractions that we fail to see our struggles aren't that much different from anyone else who struggles to maintain a exclusive relationship. Temptation is temptation regardless of your orientation. We will always find other people attractive but should being bisexual automatically excuse us from the exclusivity that most people expect in a relationship?

I think it's a mistake to try to make a generalization that should fit everybody, because where not all hardwired the same. In going to forums like this it really tends break down according to sex.
I've always made sure I didn't become involved with other women in both my marriages, and at times it was not easy, and I'm talking a period of 26 years.
As far as the same sex, that's entirely different, it's really like needing food and water, I never been comfortable being involved with just one sex. In my first marriage I was completely monogamous. Part of my motivation was I wasn't ready to take that next step. It's one thing to know you have desire for the same sex and quite another to truly experience it. Can someone use their sexuality to be selfish,?, absolutely, do some bisexual people behave in a selfish fashion of course. I think an argument could also be made of a spouse of a bisexual person. Example someone realizes their bisexual long after their married. Their spouse knows their confused and depressed knowing they will never to experience this aspect of themselves for the rest of their life. The spouse's attitude I don't care what price you pay you will never have any involvement with the same sex. Now of course any spouse has the right not to be involved with anything they don't approve of, but that's not to say there isn't any selfishness involved.
As to how we are viewed by the rest of society, I could care less what any bigoted straight or gay person has to say, I was not created to live up to their expectations. from my perspective the greater sin is dishonesty and lying, I see people do it and I don't know how they can stand the stress and anxiety

[innaminka]

However there is one little thing that make our case different. Many of the people on here got married or committed before they were fully aware of bisexual nature.
...it's no fun to be a virgin (with respect to one sex) and wondering what it's like all your life.

I agree and yet disagree. Bisexuality, of its nature means "both" or "two" Its an inherent part of us - it helps forms our nature and personality as a person.
As Lorcan said, some are aware early in life, whereas others do not become aware until later when marriage and family has already occurred.

I am not into psychobabble, but the very nature of being "different" a la gay, bi, trans imposes definte strains on a person's inner behaviours (psyche?) Nearly every GBT person you meet has struggled with this difference, and has had difficulties admitting their sexuality to themselves - let alone others. This situation, by its very nature has ramifications for future behaviours.
Self-denial of one's sexuality appears to be one of the greatest causes of mental instability there can be - we all know someone who seriously contemplated suicide as the way to handle their GBT "difference"

The way one then goes about living with their sexuality becomes a personal decision. From merely admitting it to themselves to having continual MMMFFFFMMMMFFFF type "encounters (phew!) is up to the individual.

No, we are not special - but being bi does, for some people, involve exploring the extent of what their personality brings.

[NorthBiEast]

This is an issue that I have been really struggling with. My husband is supportive and wants me to be me, but I never thought that "me" would ever involve being "unfaithful" or "cheating." I use quotes because I really had to define these terms to myself. I believe that each definition is relative to each relationship.

I've come to realize that morality cannot be defined by people outside of those effected by a decision. In the case of my sexuality, that means me, my husband, and any partners that WE decide to be with. I can use the morality of the greater populace as a guide, but in the end, it's none of the greater populace's business who I'm with.


:2cents:

[ambi53mm]

I think if it weren’t for the particular nature of this site or any other site other than a bisexual site, that these issues probably wouldn’t be discussed in an open forum What makes these issues pertinent to this site is that it is because or our unique dual gendered sexual orientation that these questions come to the forefront and that is in itself the point we wrestle with. The application of monogamous behavior seems to work easier and is more clean cut in relationships where the duality of attraction doesn’t exist. Straight or Gay relationships deal with monogamy issues as well but they differ from bisexual relationships in that their attractions with regard to gender don’t fluctuate. If you’re straight and desire someone else, it’s more than likely going to be someone else from the opposite sex, or if your Gay then it will more than likely be someone else of the same sex. Bisexuals, call it a curse or a blessing differ because, in trying to maintain a monogamous relationship, we are having to choose one and deny the other at some level or another. Attraction is one thing, acting on those attractions another. Where do you draw the line between thought and behavior?

Long before I discovered my own bisexual nature I had already pretty much developed my perspectives/ philosophies/attitudes towards relationships, monogamy, and marriage. Discovering my bisexual nature hasn’t altered those views because the base fundamentals of what I feel to be my perceptions of truth have remained pretty consistent. It’s the core of one’s beliefs that become questionable because it’s where such concepts of relationship, marriage, and sexual morality are derived. There are many whose belief systems cannot support the concepts that others may hold as truth. So we differ and act accordingly to our own beliefs or, we act accordingly to those whose beliefs we agree with or believe hold more of a greater value than our own.

A different time, a different history, a different culture, a different perspective,… and we could be debating the peculiarities of those strange people who engage in heterosexual monogamous relationships and how odd they are in demanding exclusivity.

Ambi :)

[mannysg]

I generally agree with, Gentlepen, but several here also made good counter points that I agree with.

I'm in a monogamous relationship. To use TommySwing's example: When I got married, it was understood that my wife & I would be monogamous. It would be selfish of me to expect my wife to "allow" me to have sex with a man. But then again, I didn't come to full realization that I was bi until well after we got married, so it could be argued that she is being selfish by not allowing me to explore sex with a man. HOWEVER, since we entered the marriage with the understanding of monogamy, I need to hold back my desires to honor the promise I made when we married.
That said, I can always HOPE that she will one day change her view and be willing to let me play on the side a time or two. :)

[TorontoGuy2007]

gentle pen, i agree completely.. the "opportunity cost" we give up be getting married and agreeing to be faithful to one person is that we agree not to get with others, regardless of sex/gender.

i don't buy the excuse that people get married before they realize they are bi. heck, love and marriage is about exclusivity, it's about wanting to be with only one person. it's not a matter of sexual orientation..

i think these people are just unhappy in their marriage and they are using bisexuality as a scapegoat to justify why they need sex with additional people..

then again, i've never been married, so i can't say i speak from their shoes..

but when i do get married, i will remain faithful. i won't ever make an excuse to cheat or to "ask permission" to have sex with others.. for me, marriage and exclusivity with one person is the #1 goal and dream for me..

[Lorcan]

i think these people are just unhappy in their marriage and they are using bisexuality as a scapegoat to justify why they need sex with additional people..

I was once in a long term relationship with a guy. I wanted to marry him. I loved him a lot; i still do. We had GREAT sex.
I still wanted to experiment with a girl, because I'd never been with a girl before. Virginity sucks.



love and marriage is about exclusivity, it's about wanting to be with only one person.
When i finally found someone to marry, we didn't say the words "forsaking all others". It's our covenent with God and we can say what we want.

[binbi42]

i think these people are just unhappy in their marriage and they are using bisexuality as a scapegoat to justify why they need sex with additional people..
then again, i've never been married, so i can't say i speak from their shoes..


LOL All we can say is that if this is "unhappiness"... then we wish we'd found it sooner in life.

Bijingles :female: and Ambi :male:
:love87:

[DiamondDog]

The idea of just what marriage is, is changing and it's not always been closed/exclusive. I elect not to use the word 'monogamous' because most people aren't with one and only one sexual/romantic partner for life.

More people are having open relationships (yes, even heterosexual couples do this as well as many but not all gay couples) and I don't see anything wrong with this. This isn't just a new thing either, See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory#Famous_polyamorous_people

Personally for me, fidelity, trust, and communication are a lot more important in a relationship than the idea of being closed/exclusive, conforming to outdated standards, or being told that I'd need someone else's "permission" to do something that's natural to me or to explore an aspect of myself, or that I will only have sex with one gender since it's expected of me by my partner isn't something I'd want to deal with and the idea of a traditional marriage/relationship isn't something that appeals to me.

The idea that I'm only supposed to love that one and only one person for the rest of my life, or have sex with only one gender for the rest of my life, is something that would be impossible for me. But honestly I've known this about myself for awhile so this is what works for me, and of course I wouldn't ever think of entering into a relationship and hiding myself from another person, or being closeted (discreet), or cheating on them and lying about it.

I do not beleive that this modern era allows for a successful mimicry of heterosexual monogamous relationships. Are we living in an era when stereotypical relationships are no longer possible? I believe so.

I don't see anything wrong with the scenario about the man and woman couple where the woman wants to have a 3 way with another man, or goes off with her husband's knowledge and sleep with that man, it's only sex, and besides in BOTH cases she did ask first instead of just doing it discreetly and behind his back the way most people do.

Marriage/relationships don't have to be about exclusivity, or wanting to be with only one person. What constitutes a marriage, or a relationship and what goes on in them, like what constitues as cheating/being unfaithful, or whatever, are defined by those who are in it not outsiders, or even society.

[deremarc]

I think sexual orientation (bisexual, straight, gay) and how that orientation presents itself (just sexual, just emotional, sexual and emotional) is different for everybody.

I also think that relationship orientation (okay I know that is probably not a phrase but it was all I could think of)....and by that I mean (monogamous, poly, swingers, cheaters, serial monogamy) is also different for everone.

And I think you can be any combination (at an given time) of those things....bisexual monogamous with desires for sex or emotional attachment with the same sex, straight cheater with just sexual contact with the opposite sex, gay serial monogamous with sexual and emotional contact with the same sex....and on and on...

And I think that monogamous does not mean "lifetime monogamous", but "relationship monogamous". People die, move, get divorced, break up for one reason or another...and sex is a part of life....

The trick is to find what is right for you (and cheating is the only one that I don't think is right for anyone-because it conflicts with what I think the second step should be) and then be open and honest and find someone who matches you well.

And, at the risk of upsetting some people, I do think (from what I've read) that some people do use bisexuality as an excuse to make it Okay and their Right to have sex with someone else. Sure, the point has been raised and is true that straight and gay people have sex with other people outside their primary relationship...but they don't consider it okay or a right. (well, actually I have heard some men say they have sex with other women because their wife "doesn't understand them" or "doesn't have sex with them"...which is another justification.) But, if you are in a relationship that is right for both of you-you don't need justifications...

I do think after you kinda set up some sort of boundaries or agreement...then your partner can expect you to stand by those--whether you promised monogamy and now want more, or you promised polyamory and now want monogamy. I think those kind of switches are unfair to the other person and would require a lot of effort to work out (although all relationships require adjusting throughout our lives as we change and grow...but that is communication and compromise between the two of you).

I believe you can have mixed sexual orientation relationships that work great...but mixed relationship orientation relationships---not so hot.

[twodelta]

....i don't buy the excuse that people get married before they realize they are bi. heck, love and marriage is about exclusivity, it's about wanting to be with only one person. it's not a matter of sexual orientation..

i think these people are just unhappy in their marriage and they are using bisexuality as a scapegoat to justify why they need sex with additional people..

....but when i do get married, i will remain faithful. i won't ever make an excuse to cheat or to "ask permission" to have sex with others.. for me, marriage and exclusivity with one person is the #1 goal and dream for me..

Hey TorontoGuy - Let me say that I respect Your opinion and I truely hope that You find what You are looking for, but I strongly disagree with Your view.

You make a blanket statement that marriage is about exclusivity and being with only one person. That's fine for You or anyone else that wants to live that way, but please, don't assume that everyone that doesn't share Your view is unhappy or somehow misguided. Cat and I have been married for 14 years, she is my soulmate, and we are very happy in our marriage. If we were not, we wouldn't stay married. With that being said, we are not sexually exclusive. Neither of us want to be. This is my third marriage. The first two were monogomous relationships that ended in divorce, and neither lasted more than six years. My current marriage is open and nonexclusive and has lasted twice as long as the first two combined. Still think that my way way is wrong? - Dave

[smokey]

When I am not involved with someone i play the field as I see fit... when I have a partner, I am with them period. It would be wrong and selfish of me to expect them to tolerate me continuing fool around while claiming to be in a loving relationship with them. Besides all that there is the matter of AIDS and no sex except mutual masturbation is truly safe, nor any condom full protection and NO ONE has the right to to endanger a partner just because you want to get your rocks off with someone of your own sex outside of an relationship. If you think you do you are an ass.

[fishfry29]

Being a male bisexual, I too am in conflict with my emotions. Years ago, we were swingers and I openly was able to explore this side of me , my wife even saying she was turned on by my being with a willing male in a swinging situation. However, time takes it toll and ppl change, she no longer even being interested in sex any longer. I made the mistake of asking if I could continue finding sex with men and it caused such a row that I will never mention it again to her. To me it is better meeting men for "safer sex"(with condoms) at a adult video store than masturbating in front of a PC. Do I want to lose my wife? Never, but I feel my needs as a man must be met too...I now wrestle with the moral and emotional parts of my life style, but I do know that blowing a guy or 2 in a video booth then getting blown myself, fullfills a sexual and emotional need, at least temporalry. Am I being selfish? I dont know. Anyone else with a similar delima?

[fishfry29]

Being a male bisexual, I too am in conflict with my emotions. Years ago, we were swingers and I openly was able to explore this side of me , my wife even saying she was turned on by my being with a willing male in a swinging situation. However, time takes it toll and ppl change, she no longer even being interested in sex any longer. I made the mistake of asking if I could continue finding sex with men and it caused such a row that I will never mention it again to her. To me it is better meeting men for "safer sex"(with condoms) at a adult video store than masturbating in front of a PC. Do I want to lose my wife? Never, but I feel my needs as a man must be met too...I now wrestle with the moral and emotional parts of my life style, but I do know that blowing a guy or 2 in a video booth then getting blown myself, fullfills a sexual and emotional need, at least temporalry. Am I being selfish? I dont know. Anyone else with a similar delima?

[findingpeace]

I definitely agree with not cheating on a spouse. That being said, marriage is fluid and needs are different at different times. My need for male bonding and contact is different than my need for female love and contact. If I had been more open to my gay side years ago I would have explored, but because of sexual anxiety due to childhood abuse I didn't.

Now that I've worked through my issues I am more open to my desire for men. My wife is completely supportive and encouraging of me exploring my sexuality. If she said or says in the future that she is not okay with me being with guys, then I'd be exclusive with her. But she also respects my drives and is confident in our love.

In both of our minds it is different being with the same sex as opposite sex. We are both opposed to the other being with the opposite sex at this time (unless it is a threesome - then all's good). We both satisfy each other's need for the opposite sex, but if I wasn't completely able to satisfy her, then by all means I'd be good with her being with another guy. But if it was another woman she wanted, by all means, I can't satisfy that desire so I'd encourage her.

So yeah, I'd rather not be exclusive. And my question is what is so wrong with that if I always act with integrity and openness? What is so wrong with being sexually free to explore while being completely commited to my wife? It also doesn't imply promiscuity or spreading disease because I am drawn to very few sexual partners - but even if I wanted to sex them all, what's the problem?

[Chaia]

I believe you can have mixed sexual orientation relationships that work great...but mixed relationship orientation relationships---not so hot.

deremarc, I think this is very true--well said. I do not believe that bisexuals should have greater freedom to explore sexual relationships outside their marriage than anyone else. I do believe that whether you are straight or gay or bisexual, if you and your partner agree that sexual relationships outside of your "marriage" are okay, then it is okay. For instance, I am bi and my husband is not. If I were to ask to be with another woman, then I should be okay with him being with another woman as well. I don't believe in going behind a partners back or lying to them, it only leads to problems and heartache. Everyone involved in the relationships must agree to the arrangements.

[littleonesblackcat]

thank you. I have been searching for validation of MY feelings, as the lesbian in a bi/lesbian relationship. After 3 years of trying to understand her need to have sex with other partners, males only, and not having much luck. I understand bisexuality, but not the attitude of that "it is who I am and what I need to be complete"

[Solomon]

I would agree with the principle that the first spouse takes a definate priority.

Integrity does count, and BIG time.

Having said that, integrity is also THE MOTHER of all challenges, and certainly not for the faint hearted!

Personally, I'm very grateful to have an extraordinary wife who is willing to be open in regards to me and bisexuality :-). But it was definately a struggle.

Truthfully, I believe that the situation that you describe also does happen even in the best of marriages between the 'straight' ones too. I think that's why they came up with swinging in the first place lol.