I want to keep my old freind! help! (religious)

[Enoll]

So lets have alittle background first.
We've been friends since year seven, the first year of high school and we've been pretty tight up untill about afew months ago. For alot of our friendship he was like a brother to me.
After school he tried to get a band going, wich he did for abit and they were pretty good, metallica and judas priest covers mostly. He lead the rock lifestyle for awhile, without the girls (he was never good with them) or the needle drugs. His life was pretty much going nowhere. I say that and sound like an utter prick, I know. :(
Then I lost track of him for afew months.

Lately he's been hanging out with me again and it's mostly like it was
in the old days, with afew differences. He wears a cross now instead of his metallica necklace and he quotes bible.
I've made threads about our friendship before, eg. the gay bar joke where
he freaked out, nearly puked and spent the rest of the day saying the usual anti-gay stuff. Wich botherd me abit.

Fast forward to tonight:
We go out for pool, he has his usual ciggs and afew beers. Less than usual.
He and I go outside one last time before leaving to have a smoke and he's just looking at me. Eventually he says:
"Matt, I have to tell you something, and it's hard for me but I want you to listen."
I seriously thought he was going to tell me he's gay the way he was going on about it.
"Matt, I've found jesus."
That's exactly what he said, direct quote.
Now I don't hate religious people, I'm agnostic, for lack of a better word.
So we drive home, his car was parked at mine beacuse I was DD. We got out and stood together and had another smoke (his...10th?, my 2nd) and he began to preach to me about how he felt the holy spirit in him and about heaven, hell, the end of times. All that jazz, also working gays into there somewhere. He was trying to make me "see the light".
I was pretty offended by the end of it all, he basically spent 30 minutes telling me out much of a bad person I am, how I'm going to hell, the whole nine.

I just wanted to grab him and say:
"Ben, you've been my friend for roughly eight years, I'm a bisexual, would you hate me beacuse of your new faith?". I so wanted to, just to shake up his world.

Now here's where I need advice, do I tell him and have him either spout religion at me then leave me as a friend, or, I really don't know.
OR
Do I not tell him and just let him go on his merry little way thinking I'm
his big manly straight freind.

I really love him but I can't be friends with him and he's like this and doesn't know. Every time he playfully calls me a fag, it hurts. Every time he uses his
now stlye to put down people of non straight sexuality, it hurts.

I've got my phone in my hand and I so just want to call him and tell him flat out.

Now what.

[FireyHephaestus]

Tell him how you feel, if he really cares about you he will understand. Same thing happened to me with my ex gf (I think thats why she left me :eek: )

[Lorcan]

He might be gay and trying to hide it by adopting an a religion with a God who can "cure" him.

Anyway...you said it yourself..." I can't be friends with him and he's like this and doesn't know." So give it a shot... tell him. I would expect an angry response from him in the beginning. But give him time; he might come back.

[meteast chick]

That's not a tough question for me Enoll, but then again...a little background about me...

I grew up on a MidWestern american farm in the middle of nowhere, Illinois. An extraordinarily small area with extraordinarily 'traditional' attitudes. We attended church in a barn until my Uncle got enough money saved to build the church, which my Aunt played organ for and we went every Sunday and Wednesday where all the boys in my Sunday School class were named Levi, they did REAL faith healing, my mother spoke in tongues and burned our Halloween costumes. Fast forward>>my parents got divorced, we didn't go to church after that, and I began to question my religion, especially after talking to people who were weirded out by it. I told my husband I was bi, but it never sunk it. 7 years later we're getting divorced. I came out to everyone as either bi or gay, because at the beginning I thought I was bi but I think I'm really gay. I try to avoid religion, really. I've never found another church where I was comfortable unless its so bubble gum generic it's hard to find much fault with it. I've considered alternate religions, and believe it or not, that freaked out my mom more than when I told her I was gay!

My friends are true blue, I've told a few who were taken aback but still okay with it and a few who said 'Damn, girl, I knew it all along.' That being said, none of them are religions fanatics.

However, as a married woman (of which I soon will not be), several of my husband's friends are religious fanatics. I thought they were my friends too, but well before we announced our split, they saw my myspace profile where I made a reference to being bisexual, and I never have heard from them since. In fact, they called around to other people who knew us and said "did YOU know?'. Whatever. Screw them. Some of the people they told said 'So what?' Some said, 'Really?', and let's just say I talk to those people more than ever now. :tong: I suppose I don't really see the point in extending my hand to those who knew me but who were totally taken aback to the point of not wanting to talk to me and spread it around instead. Hmm.

As far as I'm concerned if people judge you on your sexuality alone, especially if they've known you for so long, they are not friends.

Religion does strange things to a person. There's really no point in going toe to toe with this guy. You will lose. Even if your argument wins, you will lose. He has made up his mind about the religion he's chosen. If it truly bothers you how he spews off about homosexual sexuality, tell him you find it offensive. Let him rant about it. Tell him you respect his feelings about it but he should respect yours. I'm not sure what I feel as far as blatantly telling him you are bisexual. That could be opening up more than you are prepared for. If you want to run that in conjunction with why you find his remarks offensive, go ahead. My concern is that it may be too early. Let your feelings sink into him before slapping his face with it, if you understand me correctly.

This is just my advice,
take it or leave it,
I just hate to see people lose friends over such bullshit,

luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxoxoxo
meteast

[jedinudist]

So lets have alittle background first.
We've been friends since year seven, the first year of high school and we've been pretty tight up untill about afew months ago. For alot of our friendship he was like a brother to me.
After school he tried to get a band going, wich he did for abit and they were pretty good, metallica and judas priest covers mostly. He lead the rock lifestyle for awhile, without the girls (he was never good with them) or the needle drugs. His life was pretty much going nowhere. I say that and sound like an utter prick, I know. :(
Then I lost track of him for afew months.

Lately he's been hanging out with me again and it's mostly like it was
in the old days, with afew differences. He wears a cross now instead of his metallica necklace and he quotes bible.
I've made threads about our friendship before, eg. the gay bar joke where
he freaked out, nearly puked and spent the rest of the day saying the usual anti-gay stuff. Wich botherd me abit.

Fast forward to tonight:
We go out for pool, he has his usual ciggs and afew beers. Less than usual.
He and I go outside one last time before leaving to have a smoke and he's just looking at me. Eventually he says:
"Matt, I have to tell you something, and it's hard for me but I want you to listen."
I seriously thought he was going to tell me he's gay the way he was going on about it.
"Matt, I've found jesus."
That's exactly what he said, direct quote.
Now I don't hate religious people, I'm agnostic, for lack of a better word.
So we drive home, his car was parked at mine beacuse I was DD. We got out and stood together and had another smoke (his...10th?, my 2nd) and he began to preach to me about how he felt the holy spirit in him and about heaven, hell, the end of times. All that jazz, also working gays into there somewhere. He was trying to make me "see the light".
I was pretty offended by the end of it all, he basically spent 30 minutes telling me out much of a bad person I am, how I'm going to hell, the whole nine.

I just wanted to grab him and say:
"Ben, you've been my friend for roughly eight years, I'm a bisexual, would you hate me beacuse of your new faith?". I so wanted to, just to shake up his world.

Now here's where I need advice, do I tell him and have him either spout religion at me then leave me as a friend, or, I really don't know.
OR
Do I not tell him and just let him go on his merry little way thinking I'm
his big manly straight freind.

I really love him but I can't be friends with him and he's like this and doesn't know. Every time he playfully calls me a fag, it hurts. Every time he uses his
now stlye to put down people of non straight sexuality, it hurts.

I've got my phone in my hand and I so just want to call him and tell him flat out.

Now what.

How sad. I won't get on my "religious" soapbox right now, but I will offer this.

It could be a misguided effort to try to introduce you to something that he now feels is of high importance in his life and he wants to share it.

As for the hateful language, perhaps it is some warped way of being more "personal".

Because of the way this bothers you, I would recommend that you cut to the chase and just be upfront with him. In no uncertain words let him know how his behavior makes you feel and tell him it's time to stop.

[littlerayofsunshine]

You can always tell him that you went home and thought about what he said and decided to pray on it. And while praying a white light appeared, harps started to play and then this apparition appeared in the light, and then you heard god speak. And SHE said " Don't listen to that guy he's going to hell anyway". and the resonance in her voice caused tears to flow from your eyes and your heart filled with the holy spirit.


On a serious note. Give boundaries, tell him how you feel or he's going to continue to holy piss all over you. He needs to understand that if he were a proper Christian then he wouldn't act that way and say those things. He wouldn't smoke or drink either.


A bible is a dangerous weapon in the wrong hands.

[Chaia]

My sister "found Jesus" a few years ago. In the first few months/years of it, people tend to be VERY immersed in it and want to share it with everyone. Kind of like when you realize you are bi....hmmm. Anyway, she has gradually just made it a part of her life and is trying to live a good life, as she sees it. She knows that I have not made the same religious choices as she has and we both try to respect each others' spirituality. When I told her a couple of years ago that I am attracted to women as well as men, she was very surprised, but didn't tell me I am going to hell. When I told her that a church friend of hers was gay, she said that his identical twin brother is, but he knows that is not what god wants, so he is not gay....whatever. And now, in the long standing tradition of our family, we don't talk about any of it...ever. But, we both try and respect the views of the other when having any kind of discussion. I suppose we have "agreed to disagree." Perhaps you and your friend could also come to an understanding of respecting each other's views--you respect his religious choices and he respects your sexuality. Hope that helps a bit.

[AubergineCow]

You can always tell him that you went home and thought about what he said and decided to pray on it. And while praying a white light appeared, harps started to play and then this apparition appeared in the light, and then you heard god speak. And SHE said " Don't listen to that guy he's going to hell anyway". and the resonance in her voice caused tears to flow from your eyes and your heart filled with the holy spirit.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, for the biggest, longest, hardest......laugh I've had in a verrrrrrrry long time. :rotate:

[Long Duck Dong]

this is where it helps to know the bible, both for the religious person and the normal religious

I am not a christian, i am a ex christian and now proudly wicca.... but i deal with new christians and extreme christians a lot

my advice is simple
tell him you already follow gods guidelines..... and that is to leave the judging to god like god asks.

Matthew 7:1-2
1Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

then ask him why he is focusing on the * short fallings * of others and NOT on his own.....cos NOBODY is perfect....

[ambi53mm]

You can always tell him that you went home and thought about what he said and decided to pray on it. And while praying a white light appeared, harps started to play and then this apparition appeared in the light, and then you heard god speak. And SHE said " Don't listen to that guy he's going to hell anyway". and the resonance in her voice caused tears to flow from your eyes and your heart filled with the holy spirit.


:bigrin: LOL,I'm saving this one for future use!!


.........On another note :)

I think there are a lot of ways you can handle this and some of the ideals presented here offer up a few. With out trying to be offensive to those who subscribe to that particular belief system, I think the best course of action would be to distance yourself from him for a while. Yes, maybe there's a desire to share his new found faith, but for many of these people it becomes their mission or crusade to convert you to their beliefs because they operate from ignorance.
It doesn't mean that he's ignorant but that his comprehension of his faith has no substance. It could be the flavor of the week and more than likely he'll either choose to be around those that perpetuate his beliefs, or quit alienating those that don't buy into it.
If you wish to hold on to the friendship then give it space and time to grow in new directions. If you feel strongly about proclaiming your bisexuality then by all means do so. if you're relying on old ties to bridge acceptance then more than likely you'll be disappointed and all it may do is add fuel to his misdirected fire.
Sure there's the chance he'll understand and accept you for you but you'll also run the risk that he won't and that he'll perhaps try to turn others against you as his new found mission for Jesus.
I've lost a few good friends by being honest about my sexual attractions...and it's easy to say "Well they must have not been real friends for not accepting you for you". I don't think that's always the case. Through their own ignorance they simply just didn't know how to handle it. I made them uncomfortable and it was easier for they to deny than it was to accept. Fear of guilt through associaition...it's sad but it happens to even the most enlightened.

Turn it around seven times before you act, and if you still feel the same way
then leap like a tiger.... :2cents:

Ambi :)

[Enoll]

I never regret signing up to these forums, you guys are awesome.
I haven't decided anything yet, just to give it alittle time.

[Bi-ten]

Hi

Interesting delemma, it has been my experience that most people who have these monumental revelations have undergone a crisis of one kind or another. If this is the case for your friend I am not sure that adding another stick of kindling to the fire is going to help your friendship.

Be clear about your motivations, what are the possible benefits of your revelation now? What are the possible consequences? Are you acting with compassion or more worldly reasons, in essence...why do you need to tell him at all?

When you are clear and honest about these questions, you will know the right answer.

Already I know you are wise, because you have not acted out of haste.

God bless (and I mean it):)

[Avocado]

I'd say say something to him, or ditch him.

[glantern954]

I have had friends that I was very attached to but have had to let "slip away" for one reason or another. Some of them were bad influences, some were homophobic, some just made me feel bad about myself.

Part of me regrets not having some of these people in my life, but I feel I am a better and happier person by surrounding myself with friends who inspire me and make me feel good about myself.

This person may love you no matter who you are. Does telling your friend that you are bi put you in a situation where he could out you to other people that you don't want to know?

If so, you need to decide how important this friendship is worth to you. Otherwise, I would probably stop calling and slowly phase him out of your life.

Now regarding him calling you fag.

As I was growing up my brother teased me and called me fag all the time, and I was very hurt by it. To this day I still feel very disconnected from my brother. A few months ago at a family function, my brother had several of his good friends over. He called them all fags and teased them.

What I learned that day is that this is how my brother communicates. Most of the time he is not trying to be hateful. Lots of guys are like this, its like a male bonding thing. I'm not saying its right, its just the way things are. I have done it myself.

A couple weeks after that family function, my brother called me on the phone. He was asking me a question about his last wedding, when I replied he thought I was giving him a smartass answer and replied jokingly with, "I only had 1 wedding, fag". Then he caught himself and apologized and said he didn't mean it like that. I said "thats OK, I know you didn't cupcake."

When I hung up I felt a little guilty about making him feel like he needed to walk on eggshells when we spoke. I do think he should not use that word, but I think we also need to be a little less sensitive about it.

Guys challenge each others masculinity. Your friend probably doesn't know he is hurting you.

[AngelOfTheMystic]

This is a tough one. I know that he's your good friend and that you two have been through a lot together, but on the other hand it's not cool that he's doing this. I think that you should go on being yourself. If he can not deal with it and still be your friend than how much of a friend was he to begin with? And I for one do not believe that you will go to hell just for loving someone even if they are of the same sex. I wish you the best of luck and I hope that everything works out.

[GreenEyedLady(GEL)]

Fair warning - What your about to read are my personal beliefs, and are not meant to be pressed on to any of you. These are my thoughts on the "End Times" and Im not wanting to debate. Just giving a perspective. Thank you.


This probably won't make me very popular lol But I can fully understand where your friend is coming from. The name calling however is beyond crude. Religion is something i struggle with on a daily basis. Im not the kind of person that can sit there and try to justify my desires for women to God thinking that he is going to just be fine with my sexual orientation. I grew up in a Fundimental Christain home , not a bible beating family, but one that believes in what your friend was trying to explain about being in the "end times." Now..I don't know the bible by heart, but I do believe in what I've been taught, my faith will not change. Im a God fearing woman, and mostly feel that I'm playing with fire and will eventually burn. Heavy load isnt it ? Again, there isn't anyone who will be able to convince me otherwise. I do not know why I prefer women over men. It hasn't always been that way. Somewhere along the line there was however a transition, and i'm just not the same anymore.
It's my belief, along with millions of others that we are living in the end times. Im not trying to convert anyone, but I will tell you what it is most christains believe is happening today, and probably what your friend was trying to explain to you. Its not hard to see that most of the world is at war. Holy wars, Biological warfare ( anthrax, napalm ). Look at all the virus's and flu pandemics, flesh eating diseases. Anyone notice anything different in our climate changes ? Earthquakes, devastating hurricanes, sunamis, volcano eruptions. Something else to consider which is spooky as hell is the biometrics hype which is essentially being used to "protect" our identities thru fingerprinting, eye scans , voice scans, ect. All this eventually bringing us under a microscope for the government to keep tabs on us. Some believe a one wolrd government. Chip implants, vastly used with pets to track them down, its already occurred in the work place ( pardon me for not being able to remember the company ) In the bible, this is the sign of the beast.If anyone ever suggests that placing a chip inside your wrist for identity purposes, please decline ;-) Even using our ATM EBT is bringing us into a cashless society, HUGE !! Gradually I doubt that you will see any sign of the 10 commandments in government buildings. Out of sight out of mind ???Pornography ( noted to be one of the largest and fastest growing industries today ), unlimited thru the WWW, alternitive lifestyles on the up rise. I know that will sting many of you by my saying that. AGAIN NOT TRYING TO CONVERT OR CONFORM.

Eventually we believe the antichrist will emerge from no where as a nobody to someone so spectacular you'd think he was the messiah, because eventually thats what he will claim. Some believe that he will be a homosexual because he has little reguard or taste for women.

Anyhow , I could go on and on about this. I struggle with this so much. You'd think because I feel this way, that it would be easy to turn away from it. Its just not the case. I believe your friend felt compelled to share with you not so much to tell you that he feels your going to hell, but to help you the best way he knew how. It was obviously very important to him , and probably extremely difficult for him to approach you. Granted it might not be a theory your content with. Which is your perogative. I honestly only think he was trying to help his friend .
I hope that I have not offended anyone by this post. This is merely my opinion and I wont debate anyone about this. Thank you for reading this post.

GEL

[Lake_Bi_Guy]

Only thing I can say is that is that if he is truly a good friend..he will understand your bi-sexuality. I'm 54 and my best friend since we where teenagers, dated my three sisters and married the last one about 20 years ago. Used to tease that if he ran out of sisters that I was next..we had a good old laugh about that. He didn't know I secretly wanted him.

One time after about 3-4 years of marriage, we where working on an old house he was fixing up and we started drinking. Next morning I woke up in his bed he had there. We looked at each other and had to ask if we did anything during the night. I told him that if we did, I was sorry...only for forgetting what it was like. Well, we ended up playing a good part of the morning and off and on for 5 years, till one day he told me I was going to hell for being bi. He had just found religion and there is no one like someone who just "found God". We parted as friends for a while, but a month or so later he called me up and said he wanted to talk. Then he told me he still cared a lot for me and would I understand and still be friends with a straight guy. Thats been over 10 years now and even though I still want him when I see him, we get along great and are still best of friends.

Your friend may just be going through that excitement of a new love of God and will be there for you in the end ( no pun ) when he remembers what real friendship is.

Rambled on , but kind of good to tell someone else who might understand.

[darkeyes]

Religion, friendship and sexuality are a potentially hot mix when it comes to relationships. I wasnt going to comment at all on this because its all so personal and I honestly dont have any answers. What stung me into action was a personal experience I had only today while in my local greengrocer, a man I have known for over 9 years and who has always been very kind and has always treated me with respect and even I think affection. Bugger it he is a regular in my local and we have often shared a drink and a laugh and screamed like banshees together at Scotland or the Jambos on the pub telly!

The catalyst to the incident was a telly news item about religious groups lobbying parliament over laws being enacted to cut discrimination against gays and bisexuals. I dont intend to go into the ins and outs of the laws, but the reaction of a man for whom I have a lot of affection, and whose company I have always enjoyed. The lobby was intended to stop the law being enacted, showing the amount of intolerance religious groups, Christian, Jewish and Islamic, still retain within their faiths. My greengrocer friend knowing full well my sexuality simply raised the subject with me and a woman who walked in the shop after me and looking me straight in the eye said that its about time the churches put their foot down and really stood up for the moral majority (aaak hate that phrase!) and pressed goverment into reversing all the progress "poofs" have made over the last 40 years! Still looking at me he said its about time that perverted behaviour was made illegal once again!(not that sex between women ever has been in the UK).

I can honestly say I was absolutely flabberghasted and the reaction of the other woman which was in agreement with the grocer was even more vehement. I wont relate the argument save to say by its end I am going to have to find a new greengrocer where I can buy my veggies!

I relate the story not as an answer to this thread, more as a warning. Where I live is a modern thriving city with an ancient tradition and is a beautiful place in which to live and work. Like so much of the UK it has become very progressive in attitudes to sexuality and and it is a place I love so very much. The people are overall tolerant and understanding if a bit poseurish sometimes, and I have experienced relatively little prejudice because of what I am. Consequently, having suffered so very little intolerance I realise because of this 1 incident that maybe I have been far 2 complacent in just how far we have come in this country about attitudes to peoples sexuality, and just how much really we do not know of what is in peoples minds, even those we know well and are fond of. Much prejudice I can see is silent and deeply ingrained and it wont take a lot to awaken it and bring it out into the open.

For much of today I have watched and listened to news bulletins about this lobby, and listened to so much verbiage and even hatred spilling out of so called religious men about gay and bisexual people. Most was couched in a kind of diplomatic language to make it sound reasonable and much of it was in a way..but behind the reasonableness I detected a nastiness, and intolerance and a prejudice from so called reasonable men and women that scared me a little.

In Great Britain we have seen a wonderful transformation of our society which has given gays and bisexuals so many more freedoms than once existed. I have always feared a reaction, and it will come.. I dont think this is its start but I do fear it may just encourage the intolerant to begin to mobilise in an attempt to wind back the clock. Its a warning to every gay and bi person to be on their guard and be prepared to defend our hard gained rights and freedoms.

I have many lovely friends in a number of different religions, straight friends I mean here, but in the end which will prove the stronger, their faith or their friendship with one their faith condemns, I believe I know the answer.. and that scares me silly. Honestly I hope I'm wrong, but there are so many imponderables I just dont know anything much for sure here. What I do know is that my life has just taken a change of direction because I have been shattered out of my complacency by a spat with a greengrocer who I believed was a friend!

Now I have to do some hard thinking. This one little parliamentary lobby and a row with a grocer has so fundamentally altered my view of where gay and bi rights are in the UK, that the fog will take some time to clear and I am able to form a real view of where we should go and what I should personally do in defence of my kind. It has altered my view of my friends and has made me more suspicious and questioning of just how they think and feel about me and what I am. It isnt often that we get hit by a bolt from the blue.. but I do know I have just been zapped by one!

[canuckotter]

I've got personal experience very close to this. In my case, it didn't go well, but on reflection I think I know what went wrong. (We didn't fight, we just ended up not being friends any more. I still miss him.) So what I'm going to say is based on that experience... Your reality might be very different.

Basically, what I've figured out is that most of your friend's attempt to convert you is really about validating his own choice and has nothing to do with you. He's made a choice, he's changing his whole life, and he's a little afraid of it -- and for good reason. It's a big change. So to make himself feel better, he wants company on that journey, and as a trusted and respected friend there's no better companion for your friend than you. (When you think about it in those terms, it's actually quite a compliment -- it's proof that your friend really values and trusts your opinions and thoughts.) Now, there also is a small amount of the whole conversion attempt that is about you; your friend is happy and wants you to share his happiness. He's really doing his best to look out for you.

So, when you're dealing with your friend, keep those two things in mind. If he starts trying to convert you again, make sure that as you're telling him to stop, you also affirm his choice for him. Something like "As your friend it makes me very happy to see that you've found such a great path, and it makes me even happier that you're looking out for my well-being, but for now, that path isn't appropriate for me. Maybe later on in life, but not now. In the meantime, I'd like to continue being your friend even though we don't share identical beliefs." OK, that's pretty cheesy, but hopefully you get the idea... You want to reassure him that he's chosen well (assuming that he's not joined one of the cult versions on the fringes of Christianity) and that you support his decision, and reinforce that you still want to be his friend, but you have to make it clear that you're not interested in the discussion.

No matter how careful you are, it's entirely possible that you'll lose your friend if you don't convert. Fresh converts to Christianity tend to be a little overzealous, and they often stay that way for a few years. If they're lucky, they end up learning that their churches are lying to them (in my limited experience, most converts seem to end up with fundamentalist churches that directly contradict what's in the Bible) and smarten up and learn to be decent human beings again. Sometimes that happens quickly, sometimes it takes a few years, and sadly, it often doesn't happen at all.

As for telling him that you're queer... Why bother? If he keeps making homophobic comments, just tell him that you're not comfortable with it and ask him to stop. But there's no reason to volunteer that you're bi, because after all, it's none of his business. Just like it's got nothing to do with you that he's a born-again. :)

[CountryLover]

GEL, I was raised with so many of these same beliefs - and agree with you heartily that we are in the End Times.

However, I guess I was lucky...I don't struggle with my orientation. I was married to a fundamentalist minister at the time of my bisexual self-recognition. It was a flash of awareness, an epiphany of huge proportions. I was given the KNOWLEDGE that God created me just as I am, a bisexual woman, just as He created you.

If it can be a comfort to you, I hope you will realize that He doesn't make mistakes - YOU are not a mistake, or wrong or bad to be the person He created you to be.

Now, as for the holy roller friend....

The kid sounds like he's fighting his own orientation issues. The worst gay bashers (in my experience) are the ones with internalized homophobia. My suggestion is - if it's safe - to come out to him, with the point that Jesus said to "love one another"....with no exceptions. He'll either put his newfound faith into action, or you'll not have to put up with his bashing anymore.


Fair warning - What your about to read are my personal beliefs, and are not meant to be pressed on to any of you. These are my thoughts on the "End Times" and Im not wanting to debate. Just giving a perspective. Thank you.


This probably won't make me very popular lol But I can fully understand where your friend is coming from. The name calling however is beyond crude. Religion is something i struggle with on a daily basis. Im not the kind of person that can sit there and try to justify my desires for women to God thinking that he is going to just be fine with my sexual orientation. I grew up in a Fundimental Christain home , not a bible beating family, but one that believes in what your friend was trying to explain about being in the "end times." Now..I don't know the bible by heart, but I do believe in what I've been taught, my faith will not change. Im a God fearing woman, and mostly feel that I'm playing with fire and will eventually burn. Heavy load isnt it ? Again, there isn't anyone who will be able to convince me otherwise. I do not know why I prefer women over men. It hasn't always been that way. Somewhere along the line there was however a transition, and i'm just not the same anymore.
It's my belief, along with millions of others that we are living in the end times. Im not trying to convert anyone, but I will tell you what it is most christains believe is happening today, and probably what your friend was trying to explain to you. Its not hard to see that most of the world is at war. Holy wars, Biological warfare ( anthrax, napalm ). Look at all the virus's and flu pandemics, flesh eating diseases. Anyone notice anything different in our climate changes ? Earthquakes, devastating hurricanes, sunamis, volcano eruptions. Something else to consider which is spooky as hell is the biometrics hype which is essentially being used to "protect" our identities thru fingerprinting, eye scans , voice scans, ect. All this eventually bringing us under a microscope for the government to keep tabs on us. Some believe a one wolrd government. Chip implants, vastly used with pets to track them down, its already occurred in the work place ( pardon me for not being able to remember the company ) In the bible, this is the sign of the beast.If anyone ever suggests that placing a chip inside your wrist for identity purposes, please decline ;-) Even using our ATM EBT is bringing us into a cashless society, HUGE !! Gradually I doubt that you will see any sign of the 10 commandments in government buildings. Out of sight out of mind ???Pornography ( noted to be one of the largest and fastest growing industries today ), unlimited thru the WWW, alternitive lifestyles on the up rise. I know that will sting many of you by my saying that. AGAIN NOT TRYING TO CONVERT OR CONFORM.

Eventually we believe the antichrist will emerge from no where as a nobody to someone so spectacular you'd think he was the messiah, because eventually thats what he will claim. Some believe that he will be a homosexual because he has little reguard or taste for women.

Anyhow , I could go on and on about this. I struggle with this so much. You'd think because I feel this way, that it would be easy to turn away from it. Its just not the case. I believe your friend felt compelled to share with you not so much to tell you that he feels your going to hell, but to help you the best way he knew how. It was obviously very important to him , and probably extremely difficult for him to approach you. Granted it might not be a theory your content with. Which is your perogative. I honestly only think he was trying to help his friend .
I hope that I have not offended anyone by this post. This is merely my opinion and I wont debate anyone about this. Thank you for reading this post.

GEL

[Avocado]

Religion, friendship and sexuality are a potentially hot mix when it comes to relationships. I wasnt going to comment at all on this because its all so personal and I honestly dont have any answers. What stung me into action was a personal experience I had only today while in my local greengrocer, a man I have known for over 9 years and who has always been very kind and has always treated me with respect and even I think affection. Bugger it he is a regular in my local and we have often shared a drink and a laugh and screamed like banshees together at Scotland or the Jambos on the pub telly!

The catalyst to the incident was a telly news item about religious groups lobbying parliament over laws being enacted to cut discrimination against gays and bisexuals. I dont intend to go into the ins and outs of the laws, but the reaction of a man for whom I have a lot of affection, and whose company I have always enjoyed. The lobby was intended to stop the law being enacted, showing the amount of intolerance religious groups, Christian, Jewish and Islamic, still retain within their faiths. My greengrocer friend knowing full well my sexuality simply raised the subject with me and a woman who walked in the shop after me and looking me straight in the eye said that its about time the churches put their foot down and really stood up for the moral majority (aaak hate that phrase!) and pressed goverment into reversing all the progress "poofs" have made over the last 40 years! Still looking at me he said its about time that perverted behaviour was made illegal once again!(not that sex between women ever has been in the UK).

I can honestly say I was absolutely flabberghasted and the reaction of the other woman which was in agreement with the grocer was even more vehement. I wont relate the argument save to say by its end I am going to have to find a new greengrocer where I can buy my veggies!

I relate the story not as an answer to this thread, more as a warning. Where I live is a modern thriving city with an ancient tradition and is a beautiful place in which to live and work. Like so much of the UK it has become very progressive in attitudes to sexuality and and it is a place I love so very much. The people are overall tolerant and understanding if a bit poseurish sometimes, and I have experienced relatively little prejudice because of what I am. Consequently, having suffered so very little intolerance I realise because of this 1 incident that maybe I have been far 2 complacent in just how far we have come in this country about attitudes to peoples sexuality, and just how much really we do not know of what is in peoples minds, even those we know well and are fond of. Much prejudice I can see is silent and deeply ingrained and it wont take a lot to awaken it and bring it out into the open.

For much of today I have watched and listened to news bulletins about this lobby, and listened to so much verbiage and even hatred spilling out of so called religious men about gay and bisexual people. Most was couched in a kind of diplomatic language to make it sound reasonable and much of it was in a way..but behind the reasonableness I detected a nastiness, and intolerance and a prejudice from so called reasonable men and women that scared me a little.

In Great Britain we have seen a wonderful transformation of our society which has given gays and bisexuals so many more freedoms than once existed. I have always feared a reaction, and it will come.. I dont think this is its start but I do fear it may just encourage the intolerant to begin to mobilise in an attempt to wind back the clock. Its a warning to every gay and bi person to be on their guard and be prepared to defend our hard gained rights and freedoms.

I have many lovely friends in a number of different religions, straight friends I mean here, but in the end which will prove the stronger, their faith or their friendship with one their faith condemns, I believe I know the answer.. and that scares me silly. Honestly I hope I'm wrong, but there are so many imponderables I just dont know anything much for sure here. What I do know is that my life has just taken a change of direction because I have been shattered out of my complacency by a spat with a greengrocer who I believed was a friend!

Now I have to do some hard thinking. This one little parliamentary lobby and a row with a grocer has so fundamentally altered my view of where gay and bi rights are in the UK, that the fog will take some time to clear and I am able to form a real view of where we should go and what I should personally do in defence of my kind. It has altered my view of my friends and has made me more suspicious and questioning of just how they think and feel about me and what I am. It isnt often that we get hit by a bolt from the blue.. but I do know I have just been zapped by one!

I would of told him that Jesus is dead and God doesn't exist :)

[Enoll]

I'm giggling to myself right now beacuse I'm rembering something
he asked me to do back in high school.
"If I ever get all religious, hit me".

Funny how people are so fickle when they're growing up.

i also found out tday that there's a girl he likes that goes to the same church he does, I don't know if that's spuring him on or not, but it wouldn't suprise me knowing him.

[LoveLion]

My best friend is very Christian. We have been best friends for about 7 years and sometimes its more like were an old married couple lol. We've become so close that we just walk into eachother houses and stay overnight whenever we want with no problem. He is very religious and wont drink, and even refuses to masterbate thinking it is wrong (poor guy lol). He also if very anti-homosexuality

Anyways, when I came out, he was one of the last people I told because of his religious beliefs. On newyears eve, I had a get together with some friends and most of us got pretty drunk, he didnt. At the end of the night it was just me and him chilling in the basement listening to some music. Anyways the alchol loosened my tongue as it often can. I told him i was bi. And to my delightful surprise he was the most supportive and accepting person of anyone I told. I know he is morally and religiously against it, but he is the only one that I can talk to about it without them seeming uncomfortable in anyway.

I was afraid telling him would ruin our friendship and his religion would tear things apart, but if anything this has brought us closer.

If your friend has truly found Christ then he will love you no matter what, cuz after all that was Jesus' biggest message: love your fellow man. And if you have been as good friends as you have been this long, then something like this shouldnt come between you at all.

Things worked out great in my situation, and I would bet that it wont be as bad as you suspect it will be if you come clean

[canuckotter]

I know he is morally and religiously against it, but he is the only one that I can talk to about it without them seeming uncomfortable in anyway.
I have a friend like that. He's a real fundamentalist, very strict in his own beliefs (although his group's relaxed enough that consumption of alcoholic beverages is fine as long as you're not getting drunk -- so he's allowed to have the occasional beer :) ), but totally non-judgemental about others. He'd go out and party with us in university (he liked to dance), he'll have a beer with us, he and I are in a role-playing group together, he has absolutely no problems with me being bi (his reaction was basically "OK, and...?") Very refreshing change from the idiots who call themselves Christian (or worse, fundamentalist) but don't actually have a clue what they're religion is supposed to be about.

[rayosytruenos]

[...] For alot of our friendship he was like a brother to me.[...]

I've made threads about our friendship before, eg. the gay bar joke where
he freaked out, nearly puked and spent the rest of the day saying the usual anti-gay stuff. Wich botherd me abit.

Fast forward to tonight:
[...]
He and I go outside one last time before leaving to have a smoke and he's just looking at me. Eventually he says:
"Matt, I have to tell you something, and it's hard for me but I want you to listen."
I seriously thought he was going to tell me he's gay the way he was going on about it.
"Matt, I've found jesus."[...]
Hi!

I love this thread, religion and sexuality, filled with personal experiences!!! I guess we all have some interesting memories to add, so I would like to add my own experiences, even if they might not be interesting... :tong:

I would say, as Bi-ten:

it has been my experience that most people who have these monumental revelations have undergone a crisis of one kind or another One of my dearest friends found also Jesus after a family split, his mother and also his brother found Jesus at the same time. I think it's like when you religiously (pun intended) join a gym, you want others to join you at your new activity, as Canuckotter puts it:

he wants company on that journeybut as many who join a gym, his first huge constant interest could fall into 3 types with time:

a) he keeps more or less the same intensity at that activity

b) he drops out of it more or less completely after a shorter or longer while, or

c) he keeps his interest in such activity, but at an acceptable level and compatible with other activities in life, without proclaiming it's a panacea for all the wrongs in the world.

I've always considered that fundamentalisms are the cause of many problems. Usually fundamentalists pick up excerpts from the original teachings out of context and actually what they do is to create a new religion doing so (no matter how well they claim theirs it's the true religion). I respect all religions, but fundamentalism, be it Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or whatever, doesn't do much good to their teachings, but all the opposite. They are changing what the original teachings say.

My friend's brother studied Theology (the science -?- that studies God) and he did a doctorate on it, wanting to become a minister. He was all the time God this and God that, and he was an idealized role model for his brother, my friend. No matter how much he studied about religion, he did not have the human touch, he was not people friendly, or understanding to listen to other people's wrong-doings and mistakes, showing always his fundamentalist ideas and hell rhetoric that frightened and pulled away people. He couldn't become a minister. After a few years, he has been working for several companies, earning more and more money each time, he is really quite materialistic (and millionaire) and quite hedonistic, enjoying the company of women just for pleasure.

His brother, my friend, has broken down, as he has seen do his idealized role model. I think he now questions his own religion convictions (?) instead of questioning the true religious conviction of his brother. He has now come to a very low end as his fundamentalist idea of religion was the pillar that was keeping him standing, and he has seen it now crashed.

I always tried to persuade him to be more moderate, understanding with other people's and his own mistakes and wrong-doings as nobody is perfect, but he has suffered lots for others' and his own doings.

I don't know if your friend's conversion as you say it's just for this girl he likes or not, but him freaking out at the gay pub and then some time later him wanting to tell you something, made me think that he even could be gay/bisexual... A metallica supporter having scored not even with a hooker? Hmmmm

Him calling you names... Well, as Glantern954 realized with his brother, he called fag not only him but also his own mates, so it could be a form of addressing that some guys do. I have some mates who use different ways to address others, one says all the time something like "queer" to any of us, another one address to any of us as "sonofabitch", another one, "motherfucker", and another one as "macho" to any of us, so every one is different and if I call them the same way they don't get upset, but on the contrary, they see it as part of our friendship. (I have to say that the first time they called me so, I was upset, but then I said something to them calling them back the same name and they did not even flicked an eyelid, so I then understood that they really didn't mean anything offensive with that).

Try calling him back the same name when he does it and see how he reacts... It could be something of the sort of him saying "what you've been up to, fag?" and then you replying "watching tv, fag"... It shouldn't be challenging, but on the same supposedly friendly way he does it, so if he gets upset, you can flatly says that he also makes you get upset when he says it to you.

Well, as usual, it seems that I'm going on and on, so I better stop here. I hope that anything of this helps you.

All the best,

ray

P.S. : I'm very upset-minded, lol. I wanted to say also to those religious people in general that God created us, and as any creation of Him, we are therefore perfect, even being bisexual, gay, lesbian or transgender. I think that's something that fundamentalists should keep in mind.

Even more, Jesus gave the example and exhortation of loving everyone, and he chose Mary Magdalene, a prostitute, as His beloved friend, showing others to love and respect everyone. Aren't we at least at the same level than a prostitute? Don't you think Jesus would love us at least the same?

[Avocado]

I think I prefer tee totallers to the drink but don't get drunk brigade

[darkeyes]

Hi!

P.S. : I'm very upset-minded, lol. I wanted to say also to those religious people in general that God created us, and as any creation of Him, we are therefore perfect, even being bisexual, gay, lesbian or transgender. I think that's something that fundamentalists should keep in mind.

Even more, Jesus gave the example and exhortation of loving everyone, and he chose Mary Magdalene, a prostitute, as His beloved friend, showing others to love and respect everyone. Aren't we at least at the same level than a prostitute? Don't you think Jesus would love us at least the same?

Im not religious at all but the last points Ray made are interesting from a religious point of view.. should a god exist why then were we created in such diversity? Are the like's of us created by God as whipping girls and boys?? Is this his purpose?? Should he exist I doubt it very much.. more like a minority human beings decided that as not fitting in with what powerful people decided is the norm, and could be used to cement or gain their position millenia ago by having that minority persecuted as a perversion to the mantras of a superstitious peoples Gods. The name of their God(s) was nice and handy as a rubber stamp of approval for whatever perverted actions they took against them.

Second point here...no where in the bible does it say that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.. the attachment was made centuries after the supposed events probably to eliminate the female influence in the early church. Dan Brown's book may be a work of fiction, but at least it has opened up a more scientific and sensible investigation of the early christianity and the role of women.

While I would happily see all belief in a god or gods wither on the vine, while people do have such beliefs it is surely in everyones interests that as far as possible the history of those religions are researched and as far as possible truth such as it is and facts such as they are are established. Whether we like it or not, even should the entire population of the planet finally lose their belief in a supreme being or beings, the effects and influences of humanity's multifarious religions shall never be entirely erradicated, and neither should they be.

[Avocado]

Also, if God did exist, we would be created in God's image, foreskin included.

[darkeyes]

Also, if God did exist, we would be created in God's image, foreskin included.God, I hope not...mean I wud hav 2 hav a willie....me prefers the absence of 1!!! tee hee

[Avocado]

God, I hope not...mean I wud hav 2 hav a willie....me prefers the absence of 1!!! tee hee

Wouldn't it be good if we all had one of each ;)

[darkeyes]

Wouldn't it be good if we all had one of each ;)o god no...like the bits me has jus fine ta! don wan flaccid lump an 2 baggy thiings hangin off my body tyvm!

[meta23]

I'd tell him. For you, it's a matter of who you are, whereas for him it's just a matter of who he chooses to be. You can find more friends.

[Frankly, I'd tell him bluntly at the most inopportune moment and watch the smoke come out of his ears as his religion-addled brain tries to process it.]

[joeljar]

I am in a similar situation. I have a friend who's mom has no job, but rather tries to convert people to Christianity at the church all day. She is a hardcore believer and so is her son who happens to be a friend of mine. He has gone to religious school since he the fourth grade, and has six siblings. Basically, he is beyond Christian. a week or two ago he explained his view on homosexuality and bisexuality to a friend of mine who is currently questioning his sexuality. His view is that "fags" are going to hell. They should try to cure themselves and all that. Bisexuals are actually straight but make themselves think that they are bi. I am positively perplexed as to how he can look at it like that. It seems to me that the ones brainwashing themselves are the religious people accusing others. I don't know if that made sense to anyone but myself. Anyway, enough of me complaining. What I plan to do is wait a little while and kind of hint at my sexuality, the whole time prepared to argue about it with him complete with quotes from the bible and simple logic. Then if that doesn't work, just come out and tell him when I tell everybody else. I will then explain how I feel to him and use the research I have done. I will also probably use this site for research and proof. Also, whenever anybody talks negatively about another's sexuality, it is important to defend them. If somebody uses the term gay derogatorily, correct them. I have done that since I thought I was straight. I hope that his has helped somebody.

[SLIMES]

OK, I'll keep it quick and to the point.

Don't tell him over the phone. Wait till you're alone in the car with him and you're driving. (Sounds silly but it works) Tell him but say that you don't want his opinion yet. Drop him off at his place and then he can think it through and maybe he'll call you back.

That way you get to tell him without him running off but, you can still leave him to think about it. He's clearly a troubled individual so it'll take him time but he may come round.

[Star Gazer]

It is interesting how when people find "Jesus" need to change everything.

Jesus went among the sinners, not the faithful.


Christians are to love the sinner and hate the sin, however Christians are also not to judge because that is only for the Lord God to do.

Finding God is good. It is how we place God in our life that makes a difference.


Jim Baker's P.T.L. club (Pass the Loot), Pat Robertson's words that God destroyed N.O. because of the sins.

Or The All Loving and Saving God of Billy Graham.


There is a big differance.

What do you want from this person? A friendship, a sexual relationship? or nothing?

He may be Bi too and using this new found love of God to seek healing from the feelings.

[IanBorthwick]

My advice is simple, like Jack Sparrow's. Now either you can tough it out til he sobers up a bit(maybe) or you can't. You have to ask yourself how much of this you can take and if you want to.

Now if the answer is you don't want to take it, it hurts too much and bothers you like hell, then you have to tell him. Yes, it might make you lose his friendship but it seems to me you want a friendship you had in High School not the one he's thrusting at you right now. Because in truth I can see there have been three levels of association you've had with him:

1) High School Chums

2) Rock and Roll runaway chums(you didn't go along though)

3) Holy Roller Friend (AKA I want to bring you to the light so we can be friends)

From what I read it doesn't look like you totally accepted the last two versions of his life and friendship. More like you were patiently waiting for him to come back and remember you and to possibly restart the old relationship. It might never come back, though, and you have to accept it.

Whether you tell him you are Bi or not, you cannot live being demoralized daily. It's not really fair to you...unless of course you are willing to take it.

Just ask yourself what Ol' Capn' Jack Sparrow would do....