Oral sex and HIV http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm

[PolyLoveTriad]

I just had a deiscussion with someone from this site, (no names being named) But this person had no idea at all that you could possibly get HIV from oral sex. Although the chances are about half of getting it through oral sex rather than anal or vaginal, is that really a chance you want to take? I used to be a Lab Administrator and knew about the risk, so I gave this person the link to the cdc about oral sex and HIV> I wanted to give it to all of you as well. I urge everyone to go to the link and read up on it. Its your life and someone elses life at stake isnt it? http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm

Anyway, I hope everyone gets themselves checked out every 6 months or so and practices safe sex... Happy hunting!

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm

[LoveLion]

Its really suprising how many people dont know things like that. I figure its because Sex ed was never taught very well in schools until recently.
I had sex ed about 3 years ago and we learned all about STDs and safe sex and Im glad its was taught to us (Although I could have done without the STD slide show. Seeing a 2 meter tall image of a genital wart infected penis projected on the wall is not the nicest thing)

[DiamondDog]

That's very true.
I use condoms for oral sex if I don't know the guy and because I get cuts/sores frequently in my mouth.

I don't use them for reciving oral sex. That's because it's virtually impossible with a healthy dick getting oral sex to get HIV from another person. Actually, I did use one once but that was only because in the area where I was living there was a big syphilis outbreak.

Here are some more helpful links:
http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/stdbasics/stdchart.asp

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Current/Q179632.html

http://www.thebody.com

Also, one should NOT swallow or let someone cum in your mouth unless you know the other person's STD statuses, and when it doubt spit it out.

Despite the fact that some sites will tell you that levels of HIV in pre-cum are signifigantly lower than in semen I've heard that the opposite is true too from doctors and people who know what they're talking about.

[deremarc]

You can get an STD from receiving oral sex, although the bi-guy in my life thought it was "entirely" safe. Safer, but not safe.


http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/stdbasics/stdchart.asp

This link DiamondDog put up shows the STD's you can get from receiving oral sex as a guy.

[JohnnyV]

If you go to www.medhelp.org or do a Google on Susan Buchbinder and Jeff Klausner (Dr. K), you'll get the latest scientific findings on HIV and oral sex.

In a nutshell, the risk from giving or receiving oral sex is for herpes and gonnorhea, and to a lesser degree syphilis. HIV is not much of an issue, even with ejaculation and even if there are cuts in your mouth. There is some risk, but you'd have to be having shitloads of oral sex with strangers of unknown status (or known HIV status) to put yourself at risk.

The common sense answer based on hard science is that you can have fun with oral sex but avoid ejaculation, have it with people who have recently tested HIV negative, and do your best to limit the number of partners.

The most comprehensive studies with reliable sources found the risk, at most, 1 in 4000-5000 for giving head and 1 in 20000 for getting head, when you know the other person is infected and there is ejaculation.

There's a serious moral agenda behind the inflated risk statistics that imply oral sex is a big risk for HIV. Many San Francisco epidemiologists actually want to promote oral sex as a safe replacement for anal sex.

[tommyswing]

JohnnyV,

What is the moral agenda behind the inflated risk statistics ?

[PolyLoveTriad]

If you go to www.medhelp.org or do a Google on Susan Buchbinder and Jeff Klausner (Dr. K), you'll get the latest scientific findings on HIV and oral sex.

In a nutshell, the risk from giving or receiving oral sex is for herpes and gonnorhea, and to a lesser degree syphilis. HIV is not much of an issue, even with ejaculation and even if there are cuts in your mouth. There is some risk, but you'd have to be having shitloads of oral sex with strangers of unknown status (or known HIV status) to put yourself at risk.

The common sense answer based on hard science is that you can have fun with oral sex but avoid ejaculation, have it with people who have recently tested HIV negative, and do your best to limit the number of partners.

The most comprehensive studies with reliable sources found the risk, at most, 1 in 4000-5000 for giving head and 1 in 20000 for getting head, when you know the other person is infected and there is ejaculation.

There's a serious moral agenda behind the inflated risk statistics that imply oral sex is a big risk for HIV. Many San Francisco epidemiologists actually want to promote oral sex as a safe replacement for anal sex.

Yea what about the morals for that? lol well the guy I had been talking to who didnt know it was possible, was having oral with several partners. The thing is, if you dont have any idea that its a possibility, no matter what the risk is, youre at risk. Here someone is thinking theres no risk, so why not wrap your lips around everything that comes along, he probably wouldnt have been doing it had he known of a risk, even though it might be small. How many times have you heard, even though you use a condom, you can get pregnant? Most dont true, but, there are women who have become pregnant using a condom, the chances are slim, but shit happens.

[JohnnyV]

JohnnyV,

What is the moral agenda behind the inflated risk statistics ?

Basically since the Bush Administration came into power and assumed control over AIDS research funding, there has been pressure on researchers to lean toward abstinence wherever possible.

Some researchers like Kim Page-Schaefer were trying to advocate the message that oral sex was a safer substitute for anal sex, and most of the epidemiological findings back her up -- if gay men could live with unprotected oral sex instead of anal sex of any kind, HIV infection rates would plummet. But people like Page-Schaefer are pressured instead to argue that "any risk is risk, so therefore, abstain." It's a way of scaring people into not having any sex at all.

Also, even in supposedly neutral organizations like the CDC there has been a renewed focus on HIV as a "gay disease," though they couch it in statistics. Gay community centers are being asked to "educate" gay men, in ways that seem more and more intrusive, nosy, and judgmental. And in Georgia, close to where the CDC is based, recent court cases have made it possible for gay men to sue other men who infected them during unprotected sex -- a great way to drag gay/bi sexuality into the courtroom where it can be dissected, judged, and used to divide us.

Personally, I do avoid sucking cock because I'm married and don't want to put my family at risk of anything. But if I were single I would be sucking cock without a condom and enjoying it to the last drop. I just would do my best to ask my partners about their HIV test before dropping to my knees, and I would make a point not to do it with too many people without knowing them first.

J

[Brian]

Like some of the others here, it was my understanding that the risk of HIV transmission through oral sex was somewhere between nil and very, very small. The statement from the CDC that "evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex" is very vague and not really all that useful. As a matter of fact I thought I had read that there was not even one confirmed case of oral HIV transmission, or just 1 or 2 or something. And correspondingly most experts felt that, except for special cases, such bleeding gums or something like that, oral sex was most likely quite safe. But I don't know, maybe the science is changing based on new data.

Jeez, if unprotected oral sex is now unsafe, then I think it's time for the governments of the world to get together and create a pool of at least a trillion dollars and finally invent a condom which doesn't dull the damn pleasure.

- Drew :paw:

[tommyswing]

I would really be interested it knowing the number of HIV infection from oral sex, from what I've read the number of cases is very small, just a few documented cases. Most of what I've read on HIV via oral sex is couched with the word theoretical, but actual is rarely used. I have not heard of the virus mutating in terms of how it enters the system.

My understanding is the best way to catch HIV is to share needles or engage in unprotected anal sex. I do believe it is possible to get HIV from oral sex, any type of sex could carry a risk. I read of one case where the guy was jerking off someone and he came in his eye, which caused the transmission of the virus. I found that hard to believe but he swore that was the only sex he had. There is no way to be completely safe, a prospective partner could test negative but be positive if the infection was fairly recent, there is always going to be some risk involved.

[someotherguy]

I had a transmission go out on a Chrysler Cordoba once. Like a fool, I had it fixed. I don't know much about automatic transmissions. That was back before HIV and AIDS were known. Now I'm wondering about the transmission rate: Did I pay too much?

For oral sex as with all sex the best protection against transmission of disease causing bugs is to not be able to get laid. The frustrated shall inherit the gene pool. I laugh and cry at the same time. Some think it's sexy, I like to imagine.

Now, for those of you who do get lucky and do have oral sex and don't know your partner's or your own status regarding possible infection, well, that's just playing with fire. If grass can grow in the crack on a freeway, a virus can make its way through a microscopic slit in the lining of your mouth (or crack). Biology is very, very crafty, and bugs are very, very small. But, only the truly ignorant or abjectly deperate will take such a risk, and do we really need to concern ourselves with their well-being? I mean, those of us not in line for sainthood.

[spartca]

The basic anecdotal evidence cited in the gay men's community is that if oral sex was a way to transmit the HIV virus, they would all be dead. You don't need a fancy degree to figure that one out.

The CDC can only cite a handful of documented cases of HIV transmission orally. You're probably more likely to become infected from sucking breast milk - at least there are many verifiable, documented cases of that from the World Health Organization.

As many have said, there is an identifiable risk vector in this situation, and for some, better safe than sorry. But the risks are mostly for syphilis, gonorhhea, and chlamydia, all of which can be treated with a short course of broad-spectrum antibiotics.

I respect the choices of my partners by happily donning a flavored condom when requested - better a latex blowjob than no blowjob at all! I stock 7 flavors :) I also have used gloves and dams with women partners. It's a drag, but I like everyone in our network to feel as safe as they would prefer.

[deremarc]

From all that I have read I do believe that oral sex is safer than anal and vaginal. I guess the problem I had was my man was receiving oral sex from strange men he picked up off of the net without knowing them or any history about them. And, he had believed it when he was told that receiving it was perfectly safe.

It is safer. I personally think condoms take all of the joy out of any sex as well. I just think that people should know that oral sex is not as safe as say purchasing a soda. lol

There is a risk, it is up to each individual to intelligently decide how much risk they are willing to take.

Now, when it came down to my partner receiving unprotected oral sex from strangers..I didn't feel it was "just" syphilis, herpes and gonnorhea...to me those were too big of risks for Me. Also, genital warts can be transmitted, which can cause cervical cancer. Not AIDS, but still certainly a death risk.

[spartca]

I personally think condoms take all of the joy out of any sex as well..

Personally I have acquired the learned behavior that if a condom comes out, I get excited, because I know I'm getting some! ;)


Now, when it came down to my partner receiving unprotected oral sex from strangers..I didn't feel it was "just" syphilis, herpes and gonnorhea...to me those were too big of risks for Me. Also, genital warts can be transmitted, which can cause cervical cancer. Not AIDS, but still certainly a death risk.

Hey dremarc have you heard about the new HPV vaccine? It apparently protects against the 4 strains that cause 70% of cervical cancer and 90% of the genital warts. Worth a look if you're worried about that! :

http://www.ashastd.org/hpv/hpv_overview.cfm

Also of concern is herpes. I didn't know that there are actually 8 types of herpes. Mono, chickenpox/shingles, and Epstein-Barr are all in the herpes family. Just found that out by reading this great book from the ASHA: "Managing Herpes." Amazon.com actually has the whole book onine in searchable format:

http://www.amazon.com/Managing-Herpes-Live-Love-Chronic/dp/0971634912/sr=1-1/qid=1165985603/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9179785-2252021?ie=UTF8&s=books

I recommend this book for anyone concerned with the risks of oral sex! Did you know that HSV-1 and HSV-2 infections are now commonly reported in both oral and genital sites? It would be easy to pass herpes around in group situations with unprotected oral sex...

[deremarc]

I use condoms, and yes it is still good...it means sex...lol.

I didn't used condoms with my husband. I wish I had continued that too.

I have received the vaccination that cures those viruses after a scare and a recommendation from my doctor.

And herpes does concern me. I have written that I don't know if my husband I will make it and remain married. I don't want to carry herpes for the rest of my life...and I enjoy oral sex and sex without condoms in a relationship...it would concern me for future relationships.

Thanks for all the info though! :)

[bigregory]

Hell my computer can get a virus just from clicking on a site.
Im sure that licking the wrong person could have the same effect.
STDs are so varied, HIV just being a part of it.
To be totally safe would mean no sex.
So i guess the best thing is to know your partner or use the protection available.
As for the info out there concerning oral sex and HIV i give up, its to yes its ok no its not well maybe. Until i know for sure i will not be swallowing anything.. :flag2:

[PolyLoveTriad]

I had a transmission go out on a Chrysler Cordoba once. Like a fool, I had it fixed. I don't know much about automatic transmissions. That was back before HIV and AIDS were known. Now I'm wondering about the transmission rate: Did I pay too much?

For oral sex as with all sex the best protection against transmission of disease causing bugs is to not be able to get laid. The frustrated shall inherit the gene pool. I laugh and cry at the same time. Some think it's sexy, I like to imagine.

Now, for those of you who do get lucky and do have oral sex and don't know your partner's or your own status regarding possible infection, well, that's just playing with fire. If grass can grow in the crack on a freeway, a virus can make its way through a microscopic slit in the lining of your mouth (or crack). Biology is very, very crafty, and bugs are very, very small. But, only the truly ignorant or abjectly deperate will take such a risk, and do we really need to concern ourselves with their well-being? I mean, those of us not in line for sainthood.


Amen and lmao :)

[DiamondDog]

I know this is almost 10 years old but it still does have some good information in it:

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Archive/OralSex/Q9080.html

[trip1]

Don't para medic's use a special decive when the give mouth to mouth to avoid pos HIV and other STD'S?

[PolyLoveTriad]

Any risk is a risk, not just from hiv but other stuff ya might not like either! lol

[spartca]

I have DiamondDog to thank for this great link:

http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/stdbasics/stdchart.asp

[julie]

Don't para medic's use a special decive when the give mouth to mouth to avoid pos HIV and other STD'S?

...n i thought the special device was to protect them from getting a mouthful of vomit or being bitten or similar... it was when i was nursing, mainly because unconscious patients mouths tend to be a tad unpredictable... contracting stds were the last thing on our minds!

...julie :female:

[trip1]

That's true to...

[hedonic]

I just had a deiscussion with someone from this site, (no names being named) But this person had no idea at all that you could possibly get HIV from oral sex. Although the chances are about half of getting it through oral sex rather than anal or vaginal, is that really a chance you want to take? I used to be a Lab Administrator and knew about the risk, so I gave this person the link to the cdc about oral sex and HIV> I wanted to give it to all of you as well. I urge everyone to go to the link and read up on it. Its your life and someone elses life at stake isnt it? http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm

Anyway, I hope everyone gets themselves checked out every 6 months or so and practices safe sex... Happy hunting!

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm
I consider myself educated, have a BS Anatomy and studied and workd in Pathology. Im a very sexual person and have sex very often. I do get myself check out by a clinic every 3 mos. and they know me personally. So I do ask questions like spit/swallow, and to quite frank with me., they reply, as long as there isnt open sores from either party chances are very very slim. OK, maybe not the best advise, however, I am one person who can honestly say that I have NEVER had an STI. My forte is Oral sex both giving and reciever. I keep my mouth very clean and even have (go ahead and laugh) DDs tools. I still would like to know about oral sex and sti contamination . Or is it the religions that are contributing the fear factor. Yes... another topic.

[tom_uk]

After a review of published articles on HIV transmission and oral sex it looks to me as if the published infection rate between gay men in areas with "high rates" of HIV infection in the population are 8% in San Francisco and 6% in London.

However this is now thought to be an overestimate due to people being reluctant to admit to high-risk activities. Studies have shown that half of the people reporting oral sex as a risk factor later admitted to other higher risk factors. In the UK this would give an estimated infection rate of 40 gay men in 2000.

HIV transmission in the "non gay" population and in areas of lower HIV rates would, presumably, be much less. However statistical analysis of published data would produce an unreliable estimate of infection rates in this group. My guess would be that infection rates would be less by a factor of 10 or even 100.

My personal thoughts are for men:-

1. The risk of STD's and HIV are very low if receiving oral sex
2. The risk of STD's and HIV are low if giving oral sex
3. If you don't "know" your sexual partner, take more care. In 2001 it was estimated that 31% of adults in the UK living with HIV were unaware they were infected.
4. Don’t get blind drunk and suck every cock you can find!


Life is a risk and individuals have to find level of risk that is acceptable to them. Yes its true if you don’t have sex or take intravenous drugs the risk of getting HIV low. If you don’t leave your house the chances of getting hit by a car are almost zero. In the USA you have 4 times as much chance of dying in a road accident than from AIDS.

Risk and insecurity are the thinks that make life exciting.

Don’t let fear of living destroy your life.

Pip Pip Tom

[searchingbrian]

I, for one, am concerned about the lack of information about HIV transmission and oral sex (I love oral sex with men). The information discussed here is important BUT one has to remember that men who engage in high risk activities AND oral sex AND who get HIV don't necessarily 100% get it from high risk activities. There is no data on how many men got infected because of oral activities. It is well known that dental work can transmit HIV and therefore one HAS to presume that HIV can be transmitted through oral contact,particularly if you have breaks in your normal protection layers, ie., if you have cold sores, bleed when you brush your teeth, etc. The risk is obviously there and probably greater with swallowing sperm. That is about all you can say. I think the best recommendation is to be very careful and preferably (just as with heterosexual contact) expose yourself to people who you know and who have been tested. Just my two cents!!!>.....

[ThrillMe]

Ok, let's be serious here and think logically.

1) STD's are spread from direct contact to an infected host.
2) You cannot always "see" an infection

Therefore, you can very easily get STD's from anal, oral, or vaginal sex. Heck, if you use your bare hand to jerk a guy off who has an STD, and then start jerking yourself .. there's a good chance you've just infected yourself.

3) HIV is spread by the exchange of infected fluids
4) semen is produced daily, and could be infected.

Therefore, unless you are 100% sure that your partner is STD free, and HIV negative, you should ALWAYS use a condom for any sexual act.

Sad, but true.

[spartca]

Ok, let's be serious here and think logically.

1) STD's are spread from direct contact to an infected host.
2) You cannot always "see" an infection

Therefore, you can very easily get STD's from anal, oral, or vaginal sex. Heck, if you use your bare hand to jerk a guy off who has an STD, and then start jerking yourself .. there's a good chance you've just infected yourself.

3) HIV is spread by the exchange of infected fluids
4) semen is produced daily, and could be infected.

Therefore, unless you are 100% sure that your partner is STD free, and HIV negative, you should ALWAYS use a condom for any sexual act.

Sad, but true.

OK, let's get real here and talk about what we all actually *do* in life.

People take risks all the time. They measure their risks agaist the benefits and make a cost-benefit analysis.

Driving a car, for example, from a certain perspective is WAY more risky than unprotected oral sex, because you're risking DEATH by doing it. Documented instances of death from driving a car abound. These are the facts, the more you drive, the more likely you will DIE in a car crash. But I rarely hear of anyone advocating that everyone should stop driving around in their cars. The benefits are just too great to give up for most people.

And so with oral sex. The risks are low, and the benefits are high. How many documented instances of death from oral sex are there? Almost none. If oral sex were a good way to transmit HIV, most gay men and a lot of the rest of our population would be dead. But they're not. Just like the overwhelming majority of drivers are still happily driving around, even though the risks of death are much higher than for oral sex.

[jedinudist]

Ive actually had guys argue vehemently with me swearing that it is impossible to contract HIV (and some other diseases) via oral sex without a condom.

I've been passing the link on for a while now - THank you so much for posting it here !

[Long Duck Dong]

part of the groups that put out the studies putting us at risk..... are also the groups that have links to the condom and safe sex outfits that are enjoying increased levels of profits.....

the risks are there in sexual relationships, i don't deny that at all..... but the studies that are going on about aids and sexual contact.... are adding in the people that got infected thru blood transfusions or needles, without sexual contact... they are taking the whole aids spectrum and saying its cos of unsafe sex.......and so the fiqures are not correct

as drew and a few others correctly pointed out, the chances of contracting HIV thru oral are 1000's to 1...... thats why there are no studies fully identifying the risks of contracting aids thru oral sex..... there is virtually NO RISK, but a risk does exist... and a nil risk situation, doesn't sell condoms...
so you need to make it risky to have sex..... so the condom companies finance the studies that will ultimately increase their profits.... and they do use the aids stats, in a incorrect format....

now if i use the stats i have access to as a counselor from a private survey run in nz and the survey covered 200,000 people out of 4 million

0 people have contracted aids thru oral intercourse

18 people have contracted oral herpes thru oral / kissing

116 people contracted hiv / aids....the method of contract is not definable.... meaning they were sexual active with unsafe sex and using drug needles

19 people contracted hiv/ aids thru unsafe sexual practices...7 of them are heterosexual....5 are undefined sexuality, 7 are bi / gay

671 cases of contracting STD's while USING condoms....

198,378 people use condoms......

now what are the risks of getting stds / hiv / aids ?????
well they are there, they are real..... and the condom companies are reaping millions in profits but playing on peoples fears

bit like the bird flu epidemic......3 of the top people behind the bird flu epidemic...people that were warning the world about the bird flu.... are silent share holders in the companies that make the bird flu vaccine

[tom_uk]

Well I really don’t know where or how to answer the post by Long Duck but because of the inferences in his posting I think I should “have a go”

1. Statistical surveys of multi-factorial disease spread are notoriously difficult. The collection of the volume and quality of data needed to produce meaningful results is also burdensome.
2. Because Intravenous drug use (IDU) is a major contributory factor to HIV infection most research figures include data on the number of IDU and people who have sex with IDU’s. i.e http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm
3. “Private Surveys” that do not publish the data collection methodology or data analysis techniques are less that worthless because they do not allow the data to be reviewed by the wider scientific community. The data that you quote implies that 99% of all people living in NZ use condoms! 21% of the population is under 14 and 12% is over the age of 65. Also the AIDS rate in your survey is over 100 times less than WHO published data on NZ infection rates. (1400 in 2003)
4. Silent shareholders and big business paranoia I cant help you with.
5. If you would like to publish the data I would be interested to review it

thanks tom_uk

[Long Duck Dong]

and i shall answer

it was the LGBT community network that provided my stats, they surveyed all of nz as a cross section..
...... the main group that supplies stats for the aids foundation and WHO... is the AUCKLAND gay movement.... they focus on auckland and the 4 main gay events in auckland plus a phone survey ( pop one million ) not nz (pop) 4.1 million

this is from the WHO.int site
Communicable Diseases -> HIV/AIDS/STIs -> AIDS cases -> Cumulative number of AIDS cases -> Total
(Periodicity: Year, Applied Time Period: Latest available data)
2003
New Zealand 746

Communicable Diseases -> HIV/AIDS/STIs -> AIDS cases -> Number of AIDS cases by year of report -> Total
(Periodicity: Year, Applied Time Period: Latest available data)
2000
New Zealand 27

here is the link to the aids foundation..... the nz auckland gay group that is working with the aids foundation is NOT part of the group that ran the nz wide survey

aids foundation (http://www.nzaf.org.nz/articles.php?id=595)

be careful with the stats.... if you read carefully, you will notice the stats don't match and same of the people mentioned, were included over 2 years, but never confirmed until this year....

the stats for the 26 males ( it only deals with males having sex with males )... are for the males that were included over the 2 years..... there are no stats for the rest of the group

now as for my info..... the fiqure i given using the condoms was errorous, and that was my fault, it should have been people buy 198,378 condoms weekly
but nz has one of the highest rates of stds, and teen pregnancy and abortion in nz.......or does it

one last thing...

you say the WHO stats say the aids rate is 1400 in 2003
the nz aids foundation say 1600 in 2005
the who.int stats, latest data say...746
who stats (http://www.who.int/globalatlas/default.asp)