NZ supreme court rules that voting age should be 16......

[Long Duck Dong]

No joke, apparently having the current age as 18 in order to vote, is age discrimination, according to the supreme court of New Zealand

However, despite the cheers of victory and celebration from the teenagers pushing for the law change, the supreme court ruling means nothing, it would actually take a 75% AYE vote in parliament in order for the legal voting age to be changed from 18-16 and one of the majority parties in government has already said NO.

Now I am not going to argue for or against the ruling because its clear the law will not change..... but knowing me when I was 16, I would not have trusted me with the power to vote, and I am curious how others think about when they were 16 and if they felt they had the awareness and knowledge to vote informatively.....

At 16, I had left school at 14, I was working full time, earning an adult wage and paying taxes, however my interest in politics was minimal, and I was living in a family home where a person did not disclose politics, they just abused the hell out of the party they did not support.....so any real discussion was not an option....so I would not have been a very well informed voter, and at that stage, not dealing with 20% interest rates which were crippling the hell out of people with mortgages, not dealing with a trade agreement with china which ended up flooding NZ with cheap goods and hurting the NZ manufacturing industry....and the closure of many govt owned depts such as the ministry of works

Now the younger generation are using the stance that they need to be able to have a say in their future cos the older generation lacked the foresight to see the consequences of their actions......and my stance is hindsight is always 20/20, specially when you apply the knowledge and understanding of today, to 40 years ago, and think that 40 years ago, they had the same knowledge and awareness of today.......and of course the younger generation knows better, don't they, and forgot that the middle aged generation that are messing shit up now, were the younger generation who knew better than their elders.........

Honestly, I was mid 20s before I really took the time to consider voting and who to vote for.... but at 16 I was not ready to vote.......what about the rest of you?

[darkeyes]

I speak for nowhere else, but Scotland has voting for everything save UK Parliamentary elections and other UK wide votes for teens of 16 and 17 for Scottish Parliamentary and local authority elections and it has been the case since 2013. It has worked surprisingly well and is helping to produce a more politically and socially aware Scottish youth. Not all are interested in politics or social issues, but the same can be said about adults of any age. However, as much as any age, they think and vote intelligently.. Far more intelligently than as best I can see, many, many of their adult peers.

The future of a nation is its people, and by depriving the middle teens of the right to vote, we hamstring a people, and frustrate many of them, and create the apathy which we often condemn. The more socially progressive among us tend to be our young, who as they age often become less so. Certainly the 18s who were so full of optimism when they received the vote in the UK in 1970 are now often as fuddy duddy and reactionary as those who were in their 50s and 60s at the time. My dad was crestfallen when he died by what he saw as the betrayal of his generation.

Personally, I have seen great changes in the young of my country, who are more aware than most of their English counterparts who do not receive any kind of voting rights until they are 18. They are not all active, nor are they all aware, nor do they all think necessarily too well, but compared to the Southern UK and their elders, I think they are wonderful in just how many do consider the great issues of the day, as well as those of less import.

There is movement within the UK to lower the voting age for UK elections to 16, a movement blocked certainly by the governing party, and there are those elsewhere who feel 16 is too young. Yet Scotland's experience shows the opposite. The young do not all vote as I would like (too many Scottish nationalists for a start), but they show an ability to discuss and think about the issues which I believe to be terrific and a great advance on where I was at their age. I deal with 16 and 17s, and younger every working day and I know how many feel and consider what goes on in the world. As such it isn't my job, but they aren't afraid to tell teachers and others what they think, and coherently and forcefully and very capably.

As they age, it is possible, even likely that they become less progressive, and many of their opinions will evolve for good or ill. So be it.. That will happen at whatever age they get the vote.

I like and admire our teenagers, and think we could do much worse than allow them the vote. I am not blinded by my affection however.. I know many are problematic and difficult, but we won't cure those ills by preventing them from voting and continuing their disenfranchisement.

Decisions by our elected representatives affect everyone, from cradle to grave. At 16 and 17 surely we can provide them an avenue to help achieve real change?

[Neonaught]

Ironically, here in the US the Republican Party has looked at the midterm election returns and have decided it's to dangerous to their party for 18 year olds to be voting. They want to change the age to 21. So we'll tell of 18 year old they are old enough to die for their country on the battlefield but not old enough to take part in choosing the leaders that could potentially send them to war. Go figure!

[Lucky 61]

I guess this is turning in to a political site?

[Texian]

Mods: can we stop the political posts please? We don't need the divisiveness here. That belongs on a political website.

[darkeyes]

Mods: can we stop the political posts please? We don't need the divisiveness here. That belongs on a political website.
This has been a political website since its very early days although it is not it's primary purpose... .com has lost much by becoming a cock and bollocks website over the last few years. Politics is important to bisexual people since politics affects almost every aspect of their lives.. Politicians decide whether or not we can live gay or bisexual lives, become transgendered, what age we can have sex, whether we can have sex, with whom we can have sex, whom we can marry, whether we can keep our children, whether we are fit people to have children in the first instance what we can do in life. Politics is how we decide all of these things and many more. You do yourself and others a disservice by demanding we cease discussion on political matters.

[Jazminedress]

Well here, the democrats...................18, they are too young and stupid to own a firearm, but hey, voting is okay as we know they are usually liberal and will vote for us.

Reality, if in the USA we do NOT allow someone under 18 the legal rights of adults, then they have no business voting, seems pretty simple.
They cannot enter into contracts, cannot be out as they please (curfews) etc etc, why would we let them vote ?

[KDaddy23]

Here in the US, the legal age of adulthood was 21; then, oh, around 1973 or so - and if I remember correctly - they dropped the age to 18 and there's been a lot of crap that's been going back and forth ever since. If nothing else, lowering the legal age gives politicians access to a whole lot of people who most consider to be unable to make adult decisions; old enough to minimally consent to having sex, barely old enough to operate a motor vehicle safely, probably not old enough to absorb all the political nonsense to be able to truly make an informed decision at the polls.

Hmm.

[darkeyes]

I know many people my age and over who can barely operate a motor vehicle safely and who aren't able to absorb political anything far less nonsense and regularly prove themselves unable to make informed decisions at polling time. If to make what I consider adult decisions. If politicians wish for access to the young, they will get it as indeed they do.. Is there something wrong with a person at a young age determined by law being able to exercise their right to (consensual) sex. God knows many so called adults exercise the other kind and lack the maturity to and ability to refrain from doing so.

I see there is much respect for our young on this site these days.

[KDaddy23]

Yes, darkeyes, and proof that being older... doesn't mean a whole lot.

[Jazminedress]

I know many people my age and over who can barely operate a motor vehicle safely and who aren't able to absorb political anything far less nonsense and regularly prove themselves unable to make informed decisions at polling time. .

Which is why I have always said there should be an intelligence test to vote. Not that you have to have a PHD or anything, but at least be able to show you have some kind of thinking ability

[Long Duck Dong]

In NZ a person has to be 16 in order to get a license but it takes 2 years to get a full license, until a person is 25
!7 to enlist in the military but has to be 18 by the end of basic training
16 to get married with parental or guardian consent....
18 to drink legally
18 years old to be legally charged as an adult ( depending on the crime )

So we have a varied age for different aspects, using different arguments over brain development and mental capacity

Now one of the arguments against the age of 16 to vote, is that teens are too easy influenced by peers when it comes to voting and the other argument includes lack of awareness and understanding of politics and consequences as well as most decisions by the government do not affect teens, unless its things like youth wages ( 16-19 ) and one of the pro arguments for the age of 16 to vote, is that they should be able to have a say in their future, IE climate change....

The other aspect is activism and protesting, which honestly is causing constant disruption in NZ.....and has slowly got from a peaceful march on the streets to invading worksites, vandalism, threats and abuse.... and has also evolved into demands that the government start calling out and facing off against big countries like china, like people do on social media.. so in many ways the art of debate and constructive conversation is lost, as well as consideration of consequences of actions and decisions has been replaced with * I am right, when things go wrong its other peoples fault*

I partly much agree with others, its not really the age that is a concern, its the lack of awareness and understanding, as well as the way that people vote, with some being life long party supporters so voting for that party is automatic, some just disliking a party so they will vote for the opposing one, some people influenced by what parties say that they will do for people.....and those whom vote for whom their friends vote for ........and in NZ local council voting has dropped to around 30% of people in electorates, as well as around 70% on average for government voting.......

Its estimated that reducing the voting age would add another 80k possible votes but if voting rates were anything to go by, only about 50k teens would vote, and when spread out over NZ, their impact on who gets elected, would be minimal.....and honestly they would quickly find out that a vote only matters on election day....

[csreef]

Mods: can we stop the political posts please? We don't need the divisiveness here. That belongs on a political website.

I don't think that this is a divisive post? I am learning about the political system in another country.

[tenni]

Yes, this has always been a political site. This includes sexual orientation and gender issues. Marriage equality issues and more. The site was intended to have more discussion than coming in your mouth so that cum comes out nostrils. Being bisexual is still has political social issues that are to be discussed here.

In Canada, I have not checked but I suspect that age for voting in Canada is 19. Like New Zealand, Canada has different ages for voting, driving cars etc.

Science neurologists state that the human brain is not completely developed until the age of 25.

[csreef]

I guess this is turning in to a political site?

The open and free exchange of Ideas is (or should be) welcomed here. You should have been here a few years ago...Yikes!

[darkeyes]

Which is why I have always said there should be an intelligence test to vote. Not that you have to have a PHD or anything, but at least be able to show you have some kind of thinking ability
Not summat I would like to see, Jaz.. We are all born with a degree of intelligence and to disenfranchise a person for Falling below a particular level is a discrimination I wouldn't like to see.

Mind you, since 17 million British voters voted to cut their economic balls off in 2016, you aren't the only person to make the argument!! However, we have to take the rough with the smooth... Or as in recent years, the rough with the rougher and getting rougher still!! ��

[Neonaught]

I guess this is turning in to a political site?

As long as we are all polite to each other I have happy to discuss issues like this. I firmly believe one of the biggest problems in the US right now is how little we want to ever hear what our perceived political opponents have to say.

[Jazminedress]

Not summat I would like to see, Jaz.. We are all born with a degree of intelligence and to disenfranchise a person for Falling below a particular level is a discrimination I wouldn't like to see.

Mind you, since 17 million British voters voted to cut their economic balls off in 2016, you aren't the only person to make the argument!! However, we have to take the rough with the smooth... Or as in recent years, the rough with the rougher and getting rougher still!! ��

Let me clarify................I get that there are degrees of intelligence. But, I have a person who works for me. She has two Autistic children, they are on the lower edge of the spectrum. But, technically they are over 18 and can vote. Mom fills out the mail in ballot every time with her decisions, so basically, mom gets 3 votes for my one. These children will never ever be allowed to make adult choices, contracts, drive, nothing, yet, they still have the right to vote.

I personally know 3 people, they vote based on what requires the most benefits for them. They are able bodied, but, working doesn't make them happy, so they vote for where ever the free money is. Of course their anxiety doesn't allow them to work much, but it does allow them to hang out on the beach as much as possible.............they are obviously NOT making choices for the betterment of all.

I can't remember how Europe schools are set up , but here in general we have a K (age 6) - 5th grade, then Middle School 6th- 8th, then High school 9th - 12th. After that you go to what I think you would call uni, or a trade school, or we have Junior Colleges for people who cant afford a university or are not ready.

We had a test, to finish 12th grade, you had to pass a 8th grade math test ( this is around 12 to 13 years old) and a 10th grade English Test (So around 16). We really are talking remedial basic information. Parents sued the schools to stop it, instead of being mad that we cannot get kids through school who can pass a basic math and English test, they sued. I made my kids take it, and I had them retake to pass it, I felt as young women, that knowledge is power.

If someone can't understand the basic fundamentals of a 12 to 13 year old, how do they make a choice that could impact millions ?

I am not talking about the people who still believe the myth that Bill Clinton left a surplus and that moron Bush blew it (and yes it is a myth), because that takes an understanding of macroeconomics...................but come on , you should be able to state what 9x9.

True story, we used to have a pre-employment math test. we had to get rid of it, college students, yes advanced education college students could not figure out what 10% of 100 was

[Fiddlestyx]

Yes, this has always been a political site. This includes sexual orientation and gender issues. Marriage equality issues and more. The site was intended to have more discussion than coming in your mouth so that cum comes out nostrils. Being bisexual is still has political social issues that are to be discussed here.

In Canada, I have not checked but I suspect that age for voting in Canada is 19. Like New Zealand, Canada has different ages for voting, driving cars etc.

Science neurologists state that the human brain is not completely developed until the age of 25.

The federal voting age in Canada has been 18 since 1970, though some provinces took many years to get around to matching that for provincial elections. There has been debate regarding lowering the voting age to 16. https://globalnews.ca/news/8808934/house-of-commons-voting-age-canada-elections/ Ontario has begun a program of registering 16 and 17 year old youth to vote so they are ready when they come of age.

[tenni]

The federal voting age in Canada has been 18 since 1970, though some provinces took many years to get around to matching that for provincial elections. There has been debate regarding lowering the voting age to 16. https://globalnews.ca/news/8808934/house-of-commons-voting-age-canada-elections/ Ontario has begun a program of registering 16 and 17 year old youth to vote so they are ready when they come of age.

Thanks Fiddlstyx

The fact that then human brain is not developed until we are 25 years old is interesting factor. Sixteen is far too young if it takes their cognitively develop nine more year to be developed.

The federal government voted no to lowering the federal voting age to 16 in October , 2022. I found a google report that stated the Conservatives permitted 14 year olds to vote(Conservative Party Convention?) but voted down a motion giving the 16 year old the vote.


If Ontario's Premier Ford is registering 16 and 17 year it can not be good for Ontario.

[Long Duck Dong]

Let me clarify................I get that there are degrees of intelligence. But, I have a person who works for me. She has two Autistic children, they are on the lower edge of the spectrum. But, technically they are over 18 and can vote. Mom fills out the mail in ballot every time with her decisions, so basically, mom gets 3 votes for my one. These children will never ever be allowed to make adult choices, contracts, drive, nothing, yet, they still have the right to vote.

I personally know 3 people, they vote based on what requires the most benefits for them. They are able bodied, but, working doesn't make them happy, so they vote for where ever the free money is. Of course their anxiety doesn't allow them to work much, but it does allow them to hang out on the beach as much as possible.............they are obviously NOT making choices for the betterment of all.

I can't remember how Europe schools are set up , but here in general we have a K (age 6) - 5th grade, then Middle School 6th- 8th, then High school 9th - 12th. After that you go to what I think you would call uni, or a trade school, or we have Junior Colleges for people who cant afford a university or are not ready.

We had a test, to finish 12th grade, you had to pass a 8th grade math test ( this is around 12 to 13 years old) and a 10th grade English Test (So around 16). We really are talking remedial basic information. Parents sued the schools to stop it, instead of being mad that we cannot get kids through school who can pass a basic math and English test, they sued. I made my kids take it, and I had them retake to pass it, I felt as young women, that knowledge is power.

If someone can't understand the basic fundamentals of a 12 to 13 year old, how do they make a choice that could impact millions ?

I am not talking about the people who still believe the myth that Bill Clinton left a surplus and that moron Bush blew it (and yes it is a myth), because that takes an understanding of macroeconomics...................but come on , you should be able to state what 9x9.

True story, we used to have a pre-employment math test. we had to get rid of it, college students, yes advanced education college students could not figure out what 10% of 100 was

lol.... I know I am laughing but not because I am finding it funny or ridiculous, but because we are seeing the same thing in New Zealand......

We have revised the education system to effectively dumb it down because more and more kids are literally failing at school and in a way its because of things like social media has replaced reading books...and copy / pasting articles from a google search has replacing writting out eassys which required thinking.....

Something that happened a few years ago was a big fight over students worried that they would fail their exams because they had no idea what the word * myriad * meant and because the teacher did not teach them the word or the meaning......now I knew the word when I was 12, I read it in a book about greek and roman mythology, the students were 17 year olds.......but it really came to a head when they had 17 year old A level students do an english school exam for 12-13 year olds ( an exam from the 1960s ) and they all failed it.....

I see similar with teens that think that climate change can be fixed by banning coal and oil imports into NZ, banning fossil fuel cars and bullying the rest of the world into change as well.......no consideration for the 100s of billions of dollars at stake and that it would cost....as well as the impact on manufacturing and NZs own history of having companies move from NZ production to overseas production because its cheaper.....and when supply and manufacturing drop, it means a shortage or the product no longer available.......but for many of them consequence means nothing, only activism and protesting, actually fixing the problem is somebody elses problem not theirs.......I also see the same thinking with a lot of adults........

A standard battle cry is giving teens the right to vote, gives them a say in their future.....I agree, however giving anybody the right to vote, does not actually give them much of a say, it merely adds to the votes that will put people in power that will do what they want because they have the power, it does not mean that they will listen to the people......or that the people really have any idea what they are going on about ......an example was the fight to legalise cannabis in NZ, the surveys said 80% average in NZ supported legal cannabis, so we had a public referendrum with NZers voting.....it failed with just over 50% saying NO.......and the response from the pro cannabis crowd was that people were not given enough information to make an informed decision....

Yet the pro cannabis crowd were using a lot of personal opinion about their own cannabis use and colorados sales, while the anti crowd used NZs own mental health, drug addiction and governments own numbers... and the actual referendum question did not ask if people supported legalised cannabis but asked if the people supported the governments proposed guidelines regarding legal cannabia which a lot of people actually opposed but supported legalised cannabis........

Those are the same people that are arguing over the right to vote but again their whole stance is based on * they are right * or medical studies say that the brain in males does not fully develop until 25 ..........only a few are saying give them the right to vote in local elections and see how that turns out before they are given the right to vote in general elections....I think only 3 people have paid attention to the fact that even if the voting age of 16 was made legal, that the teens that fought for it, would be in their 20s before they would see any 16 year old legally vote .....and thats only if it passes the 75% threshold vote in parliament......

so there is so many people arguing over something that is pretty much not going to happen but being right, is more important than understanding that simple fact.......

Being right for me, is honestly not as important as thinking about the opinions I post, while others are more concerned with being right and post opinions without thinking......

[Jazminedress]

[QUOTE=Long Duck Dong;372353]lol....


but being right, is more important than understanding that simple fact.......

..[/QUOT

Bingo................I was actually asked recently, do you have to be right all the time, can't you just be a decent human being ?

So I asked, by being decent, you mean not speaking out when someone is drastically wrong, but agreeing with the crowd so they feel better

Yes

Fuck no

[Long Duck Dong]

lol... I say to people that the only time I care about being right is when doing math, clients accounts or taxes.... the rest of the time its just opinions that are generally correct and factual.....

I will debate a persons opinion and stance, tho I tend to avoid calling people out, because more often than not, people resort to insults and abuse of people they are calling out, rather than addressing what the person has said........and honestly I dislike people that jump start to name calling and abusive remarks but can not back up their stance with anything close to valid statements......

Sighs, there are people that are right, people that are wrong and people that are trying to prove that their IQ test came back negative, its the last group that worry me as they are outnumbering the first two groups lol

[Jazminedress]

ohhhhhhhhh Math, I love me some numbers, I don't care what kind it is

[Fiddlestyx]

Thanks Fiddlstyx

The fact that then human brain is not developed until we are 25 years old is interesting factor. Sixteen is far too young if it takes their cognitively develop nine more year to be developed.

The federal government voted no to lowering the federal voting age to 16 in October , 2022. I found a google report that stated the Conservatives permitted 14 year olds to vote(Conservative Party Convention?) but voted down a motion giving the 16 year old the vote.


If Ontario's Premier Ford is registering 16 and 17 year it can not be good for Ontario.Registering 16 and 17 year olds in advance of their being able to vote at 18. Get them involved in the process - I think this is a good thing. I remember I felt good and ready to vote by the time I was 16 and just marked time until 18 when I actually could. Then again, I grew up in a scolastic environment that was far more mature than average and issues were discussed in depth in school.

[Long Duck Dong]

Registering 16 and 17 year olds in advance of their being able to vote at 18. Get them involved in the process - I think this is a good thing. I remember I felt good and ready to vote by the time I was 16 and just marked time until 18 when I actually could. Then again, I grew up in a scolastic environment that was far more mature than average and issues were discussed in depth in school.

Actually thats not a bad idea....one of the problems in New Zealand, is getting people to update their electoral role details for local and general elections......but getting people registered in advance before they turn the legal age to vote, is a proactive move, and may influence younger people to pay more attention to local and general policies rather than just having an opinion on social media......

We had an article by a person who was saying how having a voting age of 16, was a good idea as they wanted to vote since they were 12, and wanted to have their say in regards to government and policies, specially after watching what was going on in the US with the elections and some politicians stances in regards to LGBT+ rights......and in a few short sentences, they actually managed to prove that they had no idea.......voting in NZ for a NZ government has nothing to do with the US elections and secondly NZ has LGBT+ rights and there are no plans to roll any of them back.....

In fact, a number of LGBT+ activists in NZ, routinely reference the US and what is happening over there, as the reason for the need for change in NZ with things like hate speech and hate crime laws, but we do not have the targeting and killing of people like they do in the US..nor do we have the anti LGBT+ politicians .....and in 2018, when the auckland pride council voted to ban cops in uniform from pride parade, it near ended pride in NZ when the majority of the LGBT+ walked off, as well as all the business funding and sponsorship.......one of the reasons for the ban? stonewall and the cops, something that happened in a different country in 69........we have LGBT+ cops and the worlds first trans cop......

But its like that with many activists in NZ, they regularly focus on the US and china, and demand that NZ try and bully those countries......and the youth jump on the bandwagon because standing up for whats right, is the right thing to do, and also demand the right to vote so they can have their say, without stopping to think that their vote is for NZ politics and the NZ government.....so yeah registering them at 16-17 so they are ready to vote at 18, may help them get their heads out of social media and actually paying attention to what their vote does and means.......or maybe not.....the younger generation insist that they know everything, lol.........

[tenni]

Registering 16 and 17 year olds in advance of their being able to vote at 18. Get them involved in the process - I think this is a good thing. I remember I felt good and ready to vote by the time I was 16 and just marked time until 18 when I actually could. Then again, I grew up in a scolastic environment that was far more mature than average and issues were discussed in depth in school.

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'scolastic environment? If it was a discussion of politics around the dinner table that is your personal experience. Parents using this would be expanding their child probably towards one of the political parties (Conservative, Liberal, New Demoratic Party, Green, Bloc )

I am considerably older than 18. When I could vote for the first time federally I was 21 and the federal voting age was 21. The Prime Minister was Pierre Trudeau the father of our present Canadian PM Justin Trudeau.

I don't know if it is legal for a teacher to discuss in detail issues with students. Certainly, discussion is permitted but to be too leaning in any specific detail is dangerous for the teacher to involve themselves in. It would have to justify how it is connected the curriculum and probably only in a history class. Or perhaps a club involving political debate but still dangerous to keep your teaching job. I see in the US some parents are wanting their children to have their values in schools including discussing sex and politics.

As far as registering 16 and 17 for when they may vote, I have not read about such a task so far in advance. We in Ontario have in the past two years or so had municipal, Provincial and Federal elections where legal age first time voters would register about a month in advance of the election. It may be that you are thinking of registration for first time by one political party registering them? In Ontario your thoughts remind me that it sounds like a Conservative concept plan rather than all party involvement and neutral politically.

[Fiddlestyx]

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'scolastic environment? If it was a discussion of politics around the dinner table that is your personal experience. Parents using this would be expanding their child probably towards one of the political parties (Conservative, Liberal, New Demoratic Party, Green, Bloc )

I am considerably older than 18. When I could vote for the first time federally I was 21 and the federal voting age was 21. The Prime Minister was Pierre Trudeau the father of our present Canadian PM Justin Trudeau.

I don't know if it is legal for a teacher to discuss in detail issues with students. Certainly, discussion is permitted but to be too leaning in any specific detail is dangerous for the teacher to involve themselves in. It would have to justify how it is connected the curriculum and probably only in a history class. Or perhaps a club involving political debate but still dangerous to keep your teaching job. I see in the US some parents are wanting their children to have their values in schools including discussing sex and politics.

As far as registering 16 and 17 for when they may vote, I have not read about such a task so far in advance. We in Ontario have in the past two years or so had municipal, Provincial and Federal elections where legal age first time voters would register about a month in advance of the election. It may be that you are thinking of registration for first time by one political party registering them? In Ontario your thoughts remind me that it sounds like a Conservative concept plan rather than all party involvement and neutral politically.
Nothing to do with political parties, just getting those who will soon be of voting age set up to be on the rolls. https://www.elections.on.ca/en/voting-in-ontario/voter-registration/ontario-register-of-future-voters.html

As to discussing politics in school - issues both of the day and the past were actively discussed in our history and civics classes in the early 70s. Then again, politics in general were not so insanely fraught as they have become in recent years so rational discussion was quite feasible. I can't imagine the same being possible now... The public high school I attended was strictly scholastic (no shops etc.) and had programs of a wider range than the average school of the time.

[tenni]

Nothing to do with political parties, just getting those who will soon be of voting age set up to be on the rolls. https://www.elections.on.ca/en/voting-in-ontario/voter-registration/ontario-register-of-future-voters.html

As to discussing politics in school - issues both of the day and the past were actively discussed in our history and civics classes in the early 70s. Then again, politics in general were not so insanely fraught as they have become in recent years so rational discussion was quite feasible. I can't imagine the same being possible now... The public high school I attended was strictly scholastic (no shops etc.) and had programs of a wider range than the average school of the time.

Interesting info Fiddlestyx. I notice that there is no provincial symbol on the web site? It states that rules for voting remain the same whether a person pre register or during the election presents information to Elections Ontario. We just had a provincial election with poor voting turn out numbers. A 16 year old can not this year until they turn 18 whether they pre register in advance or not.

The 16 voter who could not vote in 2022 may not vote until 2026 when todays 16 year old is 20.

Do you have stats on how many 16 17 year olds pre registered before this years election ?

[marine20]

i don't like politics here , but i feel i have to put my two cents in , since this affected me a long time ago. when i came home from vietnam and was discharged honorably, i was only twenty years old. i couldn't drink , i couldn't buy a car , and i couldn't vote for the men that sent me to war. it was a few years later that we let 18 year olds vote. i'm not bitter , in fact i have always loved this country. that being said , i think 18 is the perfect cutoff age. i mean , down the road can't you see the 10 year olds demanding the vote? how about the 5 year olds ? of course , i would never criticize another country for their law. that would be their business and not mine !

[Jazminedress]

i don't like politics here , but i feel i have to put my two cents in , since this affected me a long time ago. when i came home from vietnam and was discharged honorably,

How Vietnam Veterans were treated was a disgrace...........my time came much later, late 80's early 90's, but, after that experience, I am not sure 18 years old is good for Military Service. While nothing wrong with the training, and discipline learned, I don't think sending 18 year olds into combat is right (well, be best if no one went into combat). Although, everything has changed with drones and all the electronic crap, I am not so sure I would know how to use their rifles now

[tenni]

How Vietnam Veterans were treated was a disgrace...........my time came much later, late 80's early 90's, but, after that experience, I am not sure 18 years old is good for Military Service. While nothing wrong with the training, and discipline learned, I don't think sending 18 year olds into combat is right (well, be best if no one went into combat). Although, everything has changed with drones and all the electronic crap, I am not so sure I would know how to use their rifles now

Is this thread still on topic....voting age?

[Jazminedress]

Is this thread still on topic....voting age?

I was responding to someone who made a comment about being a vietnam veteran while discussing voting age

[tenni]

Jazz
If someone is posting off topic, should you not try to get the discussion back on or should you post furthering getting the thread further off topic?

If you want to post off topic maybe starting a new thread is a thing to try?

He was on topic and just a little off. Jazz took it definitely off topic(what age should you be able to join the military?)

[Long Duck Dong]

How Vietnam Veterans were treated was a disgrace...........my time came much later, late 80's early 90's, but, after that experience, I am not sure 18 years old is good for Military Service. While nothing wrong with the training, and discipline learned, I don't think sending 18 year olds into combat is right (well, be best if no one went into combat). Although, everything has changed with drones and all the electronic crap, I am not so sure I would know how to use their rifles now

I very much agree, my stepfather is a NZ vietnam and I know a good number of nam vets as well, I also read what marine20 said... and yeah being sent to war when they do not even have the right to vote and have a say, is wrong....similar in my eyes to telling people that they HAVE to go and fight, rather than giving them the chance of do they CHOOSE to go......

NZ has a legal age of 17 to enlist but need to be 18 by the end of basic training......and the majority of them will never be sent to a warzone. YET people are using the argument that people can be sent to war and not even be of legal age to yote. Honestly that argument may have held merit during WW1 and WW 2 when people lied about their age, but not today where proof of ID and information cross checking is more extensive, and most combatants, even with vietnam and other conflicts, volunteered to go......and NZ generally does not send people under 20 years old, minimum into a warzone

Personally I do draw the line myself at under 20s sent into combat, and for me, its more a case of they need to spend time talking to vets first so they are under no illusions about what they may face.......the same rule applied to me but I also grew up in a military household, I knew all about vietnam by the time I was 15, including pics taken by my stepfather, that he was never supposed to take, and radio recordings etc.......so yeah I knew what I was getting myself into when I volunteered to go.......and ironically people claimed that I had no idea what I faced, even tho they themselves had never enlisted themselves or had anything to do with the military or being in a wartorn country......

One thing I find comical in NZ is actually the number of people that think that enlisting in the armed services, means that everybody is joining the infantry and will go to war......do they think that cooks, medics, transport, engineers, office staff, logistics, supplies / quartermaster etc....and thats not including the navy ( barrel boys ) and airforce ( and flyboys ) and the reserves / territorials ( cut lunch commandos / weekend warriors ) are created out of thin air or cloned from existing service people, lol.....

sighs, its interesting how many people in NZ against 16 year olds voting, are coming up with stances that border on the stupid, and make them look as uneducated as they are claiming 16 year olds are.........and to me, the difference between me now and me at 16, is lived experiences that have taught me more than any school book or lecture, ever will.....

[Jazminedress]

Jazz
If someone is posting off topic, should you not try to get the discussion back on or should you post furthering getting the thread further off topic?

If you want to post off topic maybe starting a new thread is a thing to try?

He was on topic and just a little off. Jazz took it definitely off topic(what age should you be able to join the military?)

I will flog myself in the morning

[Long Duck Dong]

I will flog myself in the morning

oh will it be live streamed and will it be age restricted to only people of legal voting age ( to get the subject on topic lol )

[nu2curious]

This is not a political forum and I'm requesting moderators to shut down and delete all political discussion for /against anything and/or anybody , also expel anyone who persists.

I'm personally disgusted with the nations direction to the point everything has become a matter of politics , sports, music, movies, TV and the list goes on . PLEASE , enough of the BS already !

If you're reading this and want to get into political discussion log onto Fakebook and have at it.

[beamish13]

This is not a political forum and I'm requesting moderators to shut down and delete all political discussion for /against anything and/or anybody , also expel anyone who persists.

I'm personally disgusted with the nations direction to the point everything has become a matter of politics , sports, music, movies, TV and the list goes on . PLEASE , enough of the BS already !

If you're reading this and want to get into political discussion log onto Fakebook and have at it.


a-fucking-men

[Bassman777]

Agreed

[Long Duck Dong]

This is not a political forum and I'm requesting moderators to shut down and delete all political discussion for /against anything and/or anybody , also expel anyone who persists.

I'm personally disgusted with the nations direction to the point everything has become a matter of politics , sports, music, movies, TV and the list goes on . PLEASE , enough of the BS already !

If you're reading this and want to get into political discussion log onto Fakebook and have at it.

There was a time when we had active female, male and trans posters, as well as some straight posters, a lot of different subjects talked about....giving people a choice of what they wanted to reply to.... now there is barely anything for the majority of members, so the forum has very little to offer.....

We actually do not have moderators, the site is outdated, the chatroom has gone and many members that are still active, do not bother posting because its the same subjects over and over again, with the occasional where are the females threads... the groups are pretty much dead......its a crying shame to be honest as it appears like the site has been left to die.....

I live in New Zealand, and my thread was about the voting age and others opinions, because its one of the very few places I can get intelligent and mature answers without political party or leader bashing or people throwing insults at each other.......and while I respect your own stance and opinion.....I am just going to shrug.... its the need of people to dictate and control what people could say, that has nearly killed off this site, lost so many members and the reason why most threads are the same thing over and over again.......

[Jozyxt]

There was a time when we had active female, male and trans posters, as well as some straight posters, a lot of different subjects talked about....giving people a choice of what they wanted to reply to.... now there is barely anything for the majority of members, so the forum has very little to offer.....

We actually do not have moderators, the site is outdated, the chatroom has gone and many members that are still active, do not bother posting because its the same subjects over and over again, with the occasional where are the females threads... the groups are pretty much dead......its a crying shame to be honest as it appears like the site has been left to die.....

I live in New Zealand, and my thread was about the voting age and others opinions, because its one of the very few places I can get intelligent and mature answers without political party or leader bashing or people throwing insults at each other.......and while I respect your own stance and opinion.....I am just going to shrug.... its the need of people to dictate and control what people could say, that has nearly killed off this site, lost so many members and the reason why most threads are the same thing over and over again.......

I eschew mixing politics and sex. However as long as a thread is labeled to be about politics, I can easily avoid it. So "blow" your socks off. :)

I share your dismay with the small participation here as I always desire to talk with other Bi men who have more lived expereince with MM sex than I do. I do value this forum and want it to continue.

[darkeyes]

This is not a political forum and I'm requesting moderators to shut down and delete all political discussion for /against anything and/or anybody , also expel anyone who persists.

I'm personally disgusted with the nations direction to the point everything has become a matter of politics , sports, music, movies, TV and the list goes on . PLEASE , enough of the BS already !

If you're reading this and want to get into political discussion log onto Fakebook and have at it.,

It is a relatively easy matter to make the argument that your post is political, and therefore you should be taken by the seat of ur cyber pants and have ur jacksey huckled off this site were I to take heed of ur "impassioned" appeal. Hoist by ur own petard so to speak. That I don't is because I believe in freedom of speech in whatever form it takes by whatever lifeform with whatever opinion it holds.

Oh, the politics of what one can and cannot say on a site which doesn't ban very much at all. Certainly not debates on political issues.

[Jazminedress]

People have a choice, if a post is political, and you chose not to engage, then simply scroll by, kind of that simple.................go back to looking at the dick pics

[tenni]

'
People have a choice, if a post is political, and you chose not to engage, then simply scroll by, kind of that simple.................go back to looking at the dick pics

In the early times of this site, hard dick picture were rare or not shown on this site. Was it not "the troll" who started posting dick pics in large numbers? Cat's large breasts with no nipples showing dominated pics on this site?

I recall a lot of posts dealing with the sexual politics of being in a relationship with an opposite gender person and finding that you are now attracted to same gender person. How were they going to deal with the emotional aspects of same gender attraction?

Coming back to the theme of this thread, were sixteen and seventeen year old people permitted to post on this site?

[Jazminedress]

'

In the early times of this site, hard dick picture were rare or not shown on this site. Was it not "the troll" who started posting dick pics in large numbers? Cat's large breasts with no nipples showing dominated pics on this site?

I recall a lot of posts dealing with the sexual politics of being in a relationship with an opposite gender person and finding that you are now attracted to same gender person. How were they going to deal with the emotional aspects of same gender attraction?

Coming back to the theme of this thread, were sixteen and seventeen year old people permitted to post on this site?

I remember some of that, and stayed away for a while, plus, there were not a ton of people like me. One of the reasons I did the blogs was hopefully more people that had my inclinations would feel better /start to understand they are not alone kind of thing. We may as a group fall under an umbrella of Bisexual, but, there are many different sub items that come into play.

I do miss the days of where it was more people helping people understand themselves and they were not alone.....................but to answer the question, I don't recall (memory gets worse as I get older), specific site rules saying no one under 18 or if we had to certify we were over 18, but, it's been about 14 years since I joined.

You do bring up an interesting subject for another thread, is it good or bad to have minors on the site, I can see both ways

[Long Duck Dong]

I eschew mixing politics and sex. However as long as a thread is labeled to be about politics, I can easily avoid it. So "blow" your socks off. :)

I share your dismay with the small participation here as I always desire to talk with other Bi men who have more lived expereince with MM sex than I do. I do value this forum and want it to continue.


Its rare that you will see me start a thread about politics......maybe something like a voting age change because thats more a rights discussion than politics......but yes I agree debates on religion, politics and gun ownership are ones I tend to distance myself from.......

Agreed I want the site to continue.......for many members its a safe place where they can talk, and its generally trouble free... and to be honest I avoid the majority of FB groups that deal with sexuality and sexual orientation.....in part because open discussion is very limited, and two, they tend to be over moderated......in my own area there is a FB group with over 100 members, the admin overmoderated it to the point that any discussion or opinion they did not agree with, got removed......and they managed to kill the group within 6 months of it starting.......

Long live bisexual.com

[darkeyes]

Its rare that you will see me start a thread about politics......maybe something like a voting age change because thats more a rights discussion than politics......but yes I agree debates on religion, politics and gun ownership are ones I tend to distance myself from.......

Agreed I want the site to continue.......for many members its a safe place where they can talk, and its generally trouble free... and to be honest I avoid the majority of FB groups that deal with sexuality and sexual orientation.....in part because open discussion is very limited, and two, they tend to be over moderated......in my own area there is a FB group with over 100 members, the admin overmoderated it to the point that any discussion or opinion they did not agree with, got removed......and they managed to kill the group within 6 months of it starting.......

Long live bisexual.comBad moderation has killed many sites, Duckie. In part this site almost died because of moderation but I'm not entirely sure why. It may be a pale imitation of what it was once, but I'm glad it has survived.

I'm not sure I agree changing a voting age is more about rights than politics. It is about rights serpently, but it is at least as much a political issue as a rights issue. Enfranchising people is incredibly important just as disenfranchising them is. In both the US and UK there are serious political efforts to do both, not entirely honestly.

[Fiddlestyx]

Its rare that you will see me start a thread about politics......maybe something like a voting age change because thats more a rights discussion than politics......but yes I agree debates on religion, politics and gun ownership are ones I tend to distance myself from.......

Agreed I want the site to continue.......for many members its a safe place where they can talk, and its generally trouble free... and to be honest I avoid the majority of FB groups that deal with sexuality and sexual orientation.....in part because open discussion is very limited, and two, they tend to be over moderated......in my own area there is a FB group with over 100 members, the admin overmoderated it to the point that any discussion or opinion they did not agree with, got removed......and they managed to kill the group within 6 months of it starting.......

Long live bisexual.com

I am a relatively recent arrival on the forum and am glad it exists, warts and all. I have no more issue with a bit of political discussion than I do with the countless threads dealing with specific sexual peccadilloes and histories. I struggle when things move into mud-slinging, but apart from that it is all good.

[Long Duck Dong]

Bad moderation has killed many sites, Duckie. In part this site almost died because of moderation but I'm not entirely sure why. It may be a pale imitation of what it was once, but I'm glad it has survived.

I'm not sure I agree changing a voting age is more about rights than politics. It is about rights serpently, but it is at least as much a political issue as a rights issue. Enfranchising people is incredibly important just as disenfranchising them is. In both the US and UK there are serious political efforts to do both, not entirely honestly.

It depends on the individual, a vote is a single show of support for a candidate / party... tho people insist with statements like not voting means that people have no right to a say, that a vote for one party is a vote against another.....and that a vote for a party with limited support and seats in parliament, is a wasted vote.....

For the parties, its about seats and majority voting in government... so that vote only matters on election day

But actually having a vote, means very little as it does not stop people having an opinion......16 year olds can actually have more of a direct say and input on proposed bills by writing up a submission to the government using the governments website where bills are listed and public submissions can be submitted for consideration......

The problem is a lot of people want to be seen by the media, to get attention on them and what they stand for... and also by other people because the more people that agree with them, the better......we actually have protest groups here that are called rent a protestor groups because they will often stand for and protest for action on something then turn around and protest against projects started to accomplish what they were protesting for in the first place.......

Now I am apolitical, I do not support any political party......but I also do not oppose any political party, I may agree with or oppose policies but with an open mind and an awareness of consequences of outcomes.....and it has a lot to do with the fact I do not really care, I am not immortal, I am getting older and there is no way that people will ever agree and have peace in the world.....