war protester

[wanderingrichard]

ok this guy is a hero in hawaii where he's originally from..truthfully, having been on the inside of that system, i dont think he has much chance of coming out of this with any grace

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/military/stryker/story/5914575p-5225282c.html

[12voltman59]

Thanks for posting this thread and the link to the article.

As far as what awaits Lt. Watada--he will undoubtedly be convicted of violating Articles 87 and 133--it may be hard for them to prove the violation of Article 88---

I hope he prevails on that issue---the leadership of the Pentagon would like a successful prosecution of the Article 88 charge--then they can make sure military members keep their mouths shut--it is obvious that the way they treated Gen. Shinseki when he questioned top Bush administration officials in regards to the way the American military dealt with the Iraq invasion and aftermath--they booted Shinseki and made it clear--go along or get along--down the road...you don't belong in the military if you disagree with policy.

The leadership wants to quash dissent of any kind from any quarter----

[kinsey_3]

Lt. Ehren Watada is accused of six violations of military law, including two counts of making contemptuous statements against senior U.S. government officials.

Christ, what a stupid law, even for the military.

Kids, don't become soldiers. Become U.S. government officials: then honest, hardworking people who have crazy foreign people shooting at them all day as part of their job description won't be able to call you an asshole. And if they did, you could court-martial their sorry asses.

Wouldn't that be cool?

[wanderingrichard]

my own add on to this is a quote from the past:

"Power corrupts. Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely."

[canuckotter]

Lt. Ehren Watada is accused of six violations of military law, including two counts of making contemptuous statements against senior U.S. government officials.

Christ, what a stupid law, even for the military.

Hmm... If I remember correctly, that law was originally intended to make sure that the squabbling political factions wouldn't end up creating their own private armies, as had been traditional in Europe for centuries. The idea was that soldiers aren't allowed to be political, so it can't be used as a tool of political oppression. Of course, to be fair, the law would also have to provide for prosecution if the soldier makes contemptuous statements against any politician or political organisation.

And, of course, in the real world, I suspect the law hasn't been applied with any sort of consistancy and is being used in this case as simply a club with which to try to beat a dissenter into line. Not that I'd think the Bush Regime would stoop to that kind of level or anything... :rolleyes:

[JohnnyV]

Canuck,

Funny you should mention this... we do face a looming problem of private armies in the United States, much like the ancient European model. But you'd never guess where and how this problem is developing while nobody notices.

The problem is that when top leadership is so corrupt, as in our case, and leaders manipulate the laws too much, all laws become meaningless and the system breaks down. It's a gradual process but we see it happening here in the US. Step by step we are all losing the sense that we can change, or even improve, anything by the standard legal channels. The only option then becomes withdrawing from the system (like the hippies) or fighting it illegally (like the Black Power movement).

In the 1960s a similar standoff shook the country's foundation, but we made it through. This time around, as we see the country heading again toward non-confidence in the legal system, it looks more menacing. Partly this is because now Americans have more and deadlier guns and there are many more organized white militias throughout the country, with explicitly separatist rhetoric -- the folks who staff the minutemen at the border and the neo-Nazi training camps in Michigan. A recent report by the Southern Poverty Law Center found that many of the new recruits into the army are in fact from neo-Nazi or other white supremacist groups. These neo-Nazis are returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with weapons and war training, as well as some psychological pressures from their over-exhaustion overseas. Few people have noticed it, but the number of people attending the neo-Nazi rallies in public venues, like here in Buffalo, has doubled every year for the last few years, with the latest one having 300 attendees, and many experts believe there are much larger numbers but they are in hiding. They base this partly on the findings of how many skinheads and neo-Nazis they discovered were in the military, proportionate to the forces as a whole. Reporters found that in Iraq some of these racists, who were there with the full authority of American law, acted like vigilante groups and indiscriminately terrorized people in Iraqi cities -- behavior that may be more than the usual degeneracy that comes with war. They may be revealing training they got in these neo-Nazi organizations hidden throughout American rural areas.

It's frightening to note that the current movement to reinstate racial profiling, in order to protect us against Muslim extremists and Latino illegal immigrants (we're coming here to take over the country, one head of lettuce at a time!) guarantees that law enforcement will ignore the growth of armed white supremacist militias throughout the interior of the United States. (Everyone's forgotten about Tim McVeigh by now.) People will be so focused on containing and disarming people of color that they won't even see the biggest internal threat in the United States, which comes from the slow but quiet rise of armed militias, united by an ideology of white supremacy, and protected by the Second Amendment and the National Rifle Association.

People of color are shooting at each other too, of course, which means that you also have to count on the increase of racially specific gangs in the inner city with more and more complicated weaponry. It's the guns inside the US that are going to threaten the country's sovereignty. Consider that every year about 25,000 people die in homicides and 35,000 people kill themselves. Do the math. In the five years since 9/11, that's 300,000 people, yet nobody is willing to do a massive "sweep" of our country to "root out" the real terrorists, who are Americans of all stripes with loaded guns in their kitchen cabinets.

The failures in Iraq and Afghanistan make all of this much worse, because they keep Americans' eyes averted overseas and away from the violence at home, just as the violence becomes more organized and dangerous.

J

[wanderingrichard]

johnny,
i'm proud to say i own many firearms.. only one of which i keep outside the gun safe, to back me up when things go seriously bump in the night or worse. personally, i think everyone over the age of 21 should be required , as a part of the daily excercise of his or her citizenship duties, to carry a firearm openly, know how to use it, when it is legal to use it, load it, unload it, secure it, etc.. and that those citizens also be on 24 hour call up to aid our undermanned police forces within our nations cities and towns. then maybe our fellow americans such as yourself wont have to suffer through the doom and gloom scenarios you've set forth.

also, our military has known since the 1980's about the neo whatevers and has done absolutely nothing to stop it.. why? you'll never get a straight answer on that one. from anyone . ever.

the militias etc movement has pretty much died down immediately after y2k became a non issue. lots of those people were just looking for safety in numbers should the world really come crashing down from what we knew it as. go into gun shops 6 weeks into the year 2000 and you could get all kinds of high end firearms for half of what they'd retailed for. same thing applied to places where you could buy power generation equipment. i could have powered half the western seaboard had i had the money and time and inclination to buy all the power generation equipment that normally prudent and cautious people were trying to take back to their retailers for refund because they had no use for it.

what actually worries me here, is the rise of armed "non taditionalist christian movements" such as C.U.T in utah.. thier real name is Church Universal and Triumphant. these guys have high walled [ we're talking concrete and block, razor wire and motion sensors here] compounds, tons of ammunition, guns, and even armored personell carriers. yet because they are [ maybe were now i hear rumors] a registered Church, they can get away with it. two other of these nutjob groups are one founded loosely by jack van impe[ remember, he's the one always talking about "black helicopters" coming] and another founded by jerry falwell, who also founded a university that allows no non whites at all into it. since it's private university, where's the oversight and stuff on this one? matter of fact, why hasn't our gov't piulled it's charter, along with the charters of about another 5 dozen so called private universites throughout the not so united states. sorry, discrimination is discrimination, i dont care what form it is in.

ladies and gentlemen, my posting the link to the article on Lt. Watada, [ btw, have actually met the guy] was to inform our community that our service members do actually stand up and say " the emporer has no clothes!" yet must face severe and draconian punishments for excercising their U.S. 1st Ammendment rights, [1st one came to mind, this situation, several more fit too ] but at the same time violating the out moded, outdated and irresponsible laws of our military's UCMJ [ Uniform Code of Military (in) Justice]which basicaly takes away all the rights a normal citizen freely enjoys. but which is only selectively applied to those who are either singled out for some reason or other, no matter how true or not that reason may be.

and to show that right or wrong, the guy at least has the courage to stand up for what he thinks is right.

that's it. nothing more, nothing less.

oh, btw, Drew, at my request here, please delete this thread from our boards. it disgusts me that others have attempted to turn it into a one sided platform for their own political ideals. as stated above, all i wanted to do was inform our community.

Rich

[wanderingrichard]

ok, for those of you who might be interested, here's an update on mr. watada.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/military/stryker/story/6099854p-5345813c.html