Germaine Greer.. An Opinion

[darkeyes]

...has created a right stooshie at Cardiff Uni by stating that transwomen r not real women and many at the university are demanding that an invitation to speak on Women and Power next month be withdrawn.. she has I understand decided not to speak. Are her remarks misogynistic, transphobia (which she claims does not exist) or simply as she claims an opinion. I assume she believes also that transmen dont exist..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/germaine-greer-will-not-give-cardiff-university-lecture-because-of-abuse-over-views-on-transgender-a6707236.html

I have a number of online transwomen friends and aquaintances, and several in my life these days and I care for them very much.. I don't question their womanhood, although now and again I do wonder about those in this world who retain their masculine bits, have no intention of losing them and their abilities and whose sole interest seems be primarily or exclusively bisexual or lesbian women. I wonder if this is a phobia of mine and this was particularly raised in my mind as a result of an almost encounter with just such a young girl only recently.. I am not a TG woman or man and so really have little understanding of how they feel or what they go through or how they think... it wouldnt be the first time I have been caught out by my misunderstandings of transgender people, women primarily, and no doubt shall be again. I live to learn as we all should.

Greer says her denial of transwomen as real women is but an opinion. Of course it is an opinion.. but what is that opinion born of? Prejudice or bigotry or what? Science? I aways question my opinions... I hope and believe they are not born of a h8tred of people... they change very often because I dont know and will never know completely, but I thirst for the learning.. Im not sure in this instance Germaine Greer has that thirst... her opinion is valid but is it right or wrong? I have always had great respect for Germaine Greer and that hasn't changed... I think her wrong and think that trying to silence her on this subject is blind bigotry itself.. we believe in free speech or we don't... I know where I stand on that issue.

[void()]

Will agree everyone & anyone are granted privilege to express an opinion, thought.

Conversely everyone & anyone are granted privilege to not listen to expressed opinions, thoughts.

What lies in issue is when a thought, opinion comes to bear harm to others. In one example you
can look at Pauline Christians opposed to Esu Christians. Esu Christians teach that Jesus is the WAY
to salvation for the lost only. Pauline Christians teach salvation is for all simply for having faith. These
exclusive opinions caused a lot of havoc. We saw Inquisitions where heretics of the Pauline Christians
faced barbaric torture, horrid deaths at the hands of the Pauline Christians.

Heretic is a lovely word in deed. It simply means you have a difference of opinion with someone, you
think for yourself and refuse anyone's man (human) made authority. While I understand the opinion
expressed by this person, does not mean I share their opinion. Fine they've expressed their opinion.
Mine is I do not know the person expressing the opinion, why ought I hold value to her opinion? What
authority does she have? Bet it's man made. If it is, well I think you can go flush it.

All drollness aside, concur that she ought to be free to express the opinion. Understood universities used
to be places where ideas, thoughts, opinions were rampant and students learned to swim in them. Hm,
what happened? Oh that's right, education was bought by corporations, governments, bankers. Ah so
there we go round yon phallus(1), let the ashes fall(2) as they may for the devil may care yet I need
not(3). Got my education online and in living, oddly no degrees or certificates for it, only scars, worn
down joints, a few broke bones here and there. *shrugs*

(1) Pointer to the merry festival of ladies dancing around the May pole, poles are symbolically across many
cultures phallus. Origin of the May pole dancing irc was to honor Bacchus, god of merriment and celebrated
via a huge orgy.

(2) Pointer to the nursery rhyme song which came from the Black Death, the patients would get rosy rings
on their faces that faded to ashen ones prior to dying. "Ashes, ashes, we all fall down" was in some
regards a very sardonic attempt to keep children ignorant and in good cheer despite everyone literally
dying on their feet. Opinion here, always have found the English rather morbidly hilarious and that's a
compliment and curse.

(3) A pointer to playing the advocate of the devil, who in Biblical sense was simply the adversary, someone
yet again with a different opinion. I attempted being a devil's advocate here to find it untenable. Could not
see past the question of "so, what" regarding the person expressing an opinion. Understood Fran's point real
clear and well ...

Guess all around I concur with your thoughts, mother don.

N.B. Please do not misconstrue anything I write here regarding this issue to make light of it, belittle it.
I do not and will not. Aside, i often find 'battles of opinions' as being no better than 'pissing wars'. The loo
always seems to win no matter. It's why we have systems(4).

(4) System goes back to Roman Latin, it meant sewer.

[tenni]

I think that some of her words are valid. Those word are not as much about her opinion as her choice to withdraw from the issue. She is of an age where she doesn’t want to enter new debates and conflicts apparently being screamed at and having objects thrown at her.


““he/she wanted the limelight that the other female members of the (Kardashian) family were enjoying and has conquered it just like that”.


I think that the above statement may place her in an out of touch if not bigoted perspective. She may even be right about Caitlin Jenner, how are we or her know?


darkeyes may respect her for her past thoughts but she may be out of touch with contemporary issues. Greer has never presented herself a a spokesman about this particular gender issue but she has theorized about CSI gender equality issues.

[void()]

.. ““he/she wanted the limelight that the .
other female members of the (Kardashian) family were enjoying and has .
conquered it just like that” .

I think that the above statement may place her in an out of touch if not
bigoted perspective. ...

Do not read the words as bigoted. What I read is, someone asserting
another person was seeking attention and found a means to attain it.
Such to me reads like this.

tenni by commenting was looking to draw attention to themselves. They
admit lack of intimate knowledge of either of the people involved but
assert one was expressing bigoted views. If they do not know, how can
they say?

Before you get flustered, tenni, I am not saying the above about you. It
was presented to illustrate what I perceive Germaine Greer's comment/s
as conveying/communicating/expressing. To me, she says, X wanted
attention and figured out how to get it. As you point out, that may or
may not be the case with X.

At worse/best one could say Germaine Greer's opinion is baseless
without intimate knowledge of X. It is the same principle as someone
calling/saying someone else on a Web based forum a/an/did/does
[Whatever]. My response is still, asking the one casting aspersions
what their authority is, where it comes from. And yes, if it's man made
authority, I shrug it off, turn on internal ignoring filters.

Yep. We can all choose expressing an opinion. We can all choose to not
perceiving an opinion as well. Fyi, one can perceive an opinion and
choose not to express any opinion regarding it, or choose to not even
hold an opinion of it. This is something called reserved rights and
being individual beings, we each have these rights, and they are rights
not granted to us by privilege from any other human kind or human made
entity.

Oh and tenni, catch this. ((((( tenni ))))) You seemed to resonate a need
of a friendly hug. Hope you are and do have a pleasant time. :)

[jamieknyc]

Unfortunately on college campuses there is a vocal minority who try to censor anyone they disagree with. Whether Greer's opinion has a basis in fact or not is a side issue.

[pole_smoker]

I have no idea who this woman is but she's entitled to her opinion as everyone is.

Her opinion that 'Transwomen are not real/actual or biological women' is one that's shared by a lot of women, men, and even a lot of gay/lesbian/bisexual people, and even some trans people as well.

[void()]

I have no idea who this woman is but she's entitled to her opinion as everyone is.

Holy fucking fuck!

Now, understand everyone lives and does their best to make it through life based on their opinion/thoughts.
No one deserves judged simply for doing the best they are capable of doing to live. We are entitled to living
as we each respectively see fit.

The only time that is not a case is when initiatory force is used. At that point someone is using violence of
some form to harm another. Yes, that is evil and wrong and warrants defensive force. In passing judgement
on others simply living, you come sorely close to instigation of coercion. People do not like feeling inferior
to anyone. You judging, if someone allows it, can project inferiority onto them.

To me that reads as initiatory force from you. You're obviously aware of what you project. Why not change
the movie if people keep walking out? No, not coercing in this, merely asking. Not familiar with The Golden
Rule, or Silver Rule? If not why not look them up and see if you can accept a challenge, try honoring these
rules? You chickenshit? I figure you are, otherwise you might actually surprise me more often.

Oh sorry, I forgot using filters. I do that at times as means of hope. I hope eventually those I ignore
may learn, grow, mature. See? I'm optimistic despite myself.