NY Times article questioning Bisexuality

[twosides]

The following link is to a New York Times article about the validity of the Bisexual claim.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/health/05sex.html?ei=5065&en=c4386390a5de9b2c&ex=1121140800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print


Basically, it's the old argument that a Bi guy is just on his way to being a homosexual. They did some physiological tests and found that when viewing erotic material, het guys got excited when seeing het images, gay guys got excited when viewing gay images, and bi guys got excited when only viewing gay images, not het.

I'll let you all read it and respond, but my guess is that the tests may indicate what it indicates, but the real bi-traction originates in the brain, not the loins.

[holydragoon]

that sure was an interesting aticle. I think it's funny how they manage to stay diplomatic in the article. They make a statement but then later on say that they can't be sure. However, the best part of the article was the discussion about sexual vs. emotional attractions; afterall it is how these two interact that we get different types of bisexual women and men.

So what did you think about it? :rolleyes:

[Brian]

I wonder how exactly the researchers quantitatively measured the degree of "sexual arousal" in these men. A ruler?

Seriously though, I think that study has flaws. It seems to me it failed to consider at least three aspects of bisexuality:

1. The time factor. If I am considerably more attracted to guys than girls for say a 10 month period, then considerably more attracted to girls for say an 18 month period, am I not bisexual? Retest the subjects every 4 months for a few years, and tell me that sexual orientation does not ebb and flow in bisexual people.

2. We want what we can't easily have. I wonder how many of the subjects were married bisexual guys who have sex with men rarely and sex with their wives often. These guys are clearly bisexual but probably get a lot more excited over gay porn than straight porn.

Put the subjects in prison for a year surrounded only by other men. Then show them pictures of a pussy and pictures of a cock, and I bet you will get very different results.

3. What holydragoon said. I like romance and sex with women, but just raw sex with men - again, does this not make me bisexual by the universally accepted definition of the term? When you show a man porn, is that tapping into the romance portion of attraction, or the raw sex portion of attraction? What if you had the male subjects kiss a woman in a candle-lit room and measure their sexual responsiveness, then kiss a man in a candle-lit room and measure it - I bet the results would have been very different, with many bi men being more turned on by the former (and in fact, many bi guys refusing to kiss the man because it is such a turn-off to them).

The sad thing is that this study will be referenced by both conservatives and some people in the gay community to marginalize us as "confused" or "reluctantly gay".

- Drew :paw:

[holydragoon]

hey Drew, I totally agree with all of that. Their test results were way too limited and restricted. as you say things are much different in real life based situations.

-Swedish boy :cool: :flag2:

[bookworm]

Human nature is far too diverse and glorious in its chaos to quantify. As for the study, I am reminded of a quote: "I am sitting in the smallest room in my home, your review in front of me. Soon it will be behind me."

[DÆMØN]

Ebbing & Flowing, don't be forgetting the rather newish bi symbol and how it came about. At this site http://www.biwot.org/bisexuality.html , third down from the top that originated in Boston. To me that one in particular says it all.

[WillowTree]

I thought this article was very interesting. I agree that the measuring of sexual arousal cannot be accurately trusted. I must think that even heterosexual men may sometimes be aroused by homosexual images, and vice versa. Sexuality is such a mystery and that is part of the thrill. I, personally, hope we never have it all figured out. It's more fun that way.

[Mayalaen]

I find this a very odd study. Everyone has different tastes and kinks and so forth. I am a bi female and I am turned on more by gay porn than het or lesbian porn. I know a lesbian that is turned on more by gay porn than het or lesbian porn... go figure! And don't forget all the guys out there that are straight and are turned on by lesbian porn!

I see what they were going for with this study... but I don't think you can get consistent results on this type of thing... much less be able to rule out even the possibility that bisexuality is a real thing.

Drew brought up some really good points. I know I go through periods when I lean more towards one sex or the other - most likely depending on how agressive I feel at the time. They didn't bother to figure this into the study.

I kinda like the fact that we're a puzzle to them. We confuse them... keep them on their toes. The mere fact that they keep trying to explain us away shows how limited their concepts are. We don't fit into their neat little packages, their catagorized lists. We confuse the hell out of 'em and I think it's fuckin' awesome :tongue:

[leizy]

To offer a little bit of history - they test sexual arousal physiologically through the use of a plethysmograph, essentially a small (or in my case, big;)) blood pressure cuff that goes around the the penis. It measures blood flow to the penis, and is an extremely sensitive measure. Before you cast stones, it is similar studies that have shown conclusively that males that express lots of homophobia react more like homosexuals than heterosexuals.

Men and women are different in these studies - there is a female plethysmograph - most women react physically to erotic images of both sexes, whether or not they express conscious arousal, remember this measures physical arousal, which some people may not even be consciously aware of. Why are women like this, when men usually only react to the sex of choice? All women might be "latently" bisexual, or, my own theory, women are trained, as with the rest of society to view the female figure as a symbol of sex. So, maybe straight women are just reacting to a symbol of sex, that they have been conditioned to get aroused to.

This is the first study that i know of, looking at bisexuals in this way. In that sense, this is wonderful. Regardless of the findings, it shows that bisexuals are acknowledged and recognized, enough to study them. I'll point out that the study does not say that all bisexuals respond like homosexuals, but actually says that 75% of self-identified bisexuals respond with physical arousal to males, and little instinctive response to females, and 25% responded like heterosexuals, with arousal to females, and little response to males. They didn't see any guys respond like women, with arousal to both sexes.

Now - does this mean that there are no males out there, having and enjoying sex with both sexes? No - duhh. These researchers now will have to pursue what this means - how is that these guys are having, and enjoying, sex with people they don't necessarily respond to physically? It's a great question, because it takes us into the mental and emotional areas of arousal.

cheers.
d

[twosides]

First off, I agree with what Mayalaen said, but most of all the thing about:

The mere fact that they keep trying to explain us away shows how limited their concepts are. We don't fit into their neat little packages, their catagorized lists. We confuse the hell out of 'em and I think it's fuckin' awesome.

I've been confusing them for years (and myself too for that matter), not so much with the choices of people for my romantic life (93% F), but more often being presumed gay more than I cared for at the time. Then, most of my close buddies were guys, straight, mostly. Now, I have a good number of straight guy friends, and, my best friend is gay all the way. But, we're not like that. My gay experience hasn't been overwhelming, but it's been enough for me to know that it does fall into my categories of interests.

Which leads me to leizy's comments:

I'll point out that the study does not say that all bisexuals respond like homosexuals ... 75% of self-identified bisexuals respond ... to males, and little ... to females, and 25% responded like heterosexuals, with arousal to females, and little response to males. They didn't see any guys respond like women, with arousal to both sexes.

Well, I may be an exception to the rule. If I'm honest with myself, I've always been "interested" in guys. Never had a desire nor a chance to participate in anything until I was 22 or so. But the human form is beautiful in many packages. Being an athlete, I appreciated the physique of my fellow gymnasts, but I was much more interested in looking up the legs of the girls in their tight little leotards. :rolleyes:

As I got older I would pop wood looking at gay mens mags or get turned on by a photo of the latest male movie star. But to me that didn't mean I was gay. I was still bedding women, with the rare MM hookup. When I really thought about my identity, I saw both sides, with one side severely repressed. I wasn't heterosexual, I wasn't homosexual, I was justsexual.

These days, since I've allowed myself to become more now-oriented, I am equally turned on by male or female in terms of sex, but, in my mind, I am more desirous of the emotional connection to women. Wait, am I? Yeah. Physical from anybody, mental from women. And I still have the buddies that I connect with for drink, sports, and to carouse for women with. My goal is to be able to have many more gay friends and feel myself being who I am in more gay oriented social settings. Because there's a physical connection there that I need to feel more comfortable being around.

I already have a number of lesbian friends, but my attraction to them is the topic for another thread.

[I-be-darn]

My brain tells me that both women and men turn me on. Am I gay,straight or bisexual? Now I can have sex with females or males together or separately. When I go out I look at both sexes. I flirt with both. I go to bed with both. I have no choice that is what I am!
I am bisexual!
:bipride:

[Sex in Words]

In my little fantasy world I dream of a time where there are only two distinctions when it come to sexuality: sexual and non-sexual.
Call me idealistic...